Chelsith mob XP nerf [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

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Felshades

08-08-2011, 03:37 PM

My question:Does this affect ALL mobs that respawn or just the goo ones? Becuase people are already planning on just clearing the trash and then waiting 30 for a soft reset.... ><

Yimway

08-08-2011, 03:38 PM

What will be done to enable contested dungeons to support the population you just booted from instances durring bonus weekends?

Raviel

08-08-2011, 03:40 PM

does it really matter if people want to do that? it doesnt have to be done with chelsith, it can be done with ANY instance in game. are you suggesting that every instance shouldnt give xp?

acctlc

08-08-2011, 03:48 PM

I'm going to have to agree, this isn't needed. SOE has admitted they are putting their focus on endgame and want to get new customers there to xperience it (ya know, in order to KEEP them as customers). You were even considering giving away a free lvl 90 character! Why would you nerf a good grind spot that gets new players and new characters into the zone to really enjoy your game. I just don't get it

DuneWarrior

08-08-2011, 03:50 PM

Its another of those "righetous" changes that serves no other purpose than making those who are unable to do it/take advantage of it feel better about themself, knowing that those who can are no longer able to do so.Silly to waste time on in my book.

Cocytus

08-08-2011, 03:55 PM

<cite>Zaktull@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its another of those "righetous" changes that serves no other purpose than making those who are unable to do it/take advantage of it feel better about themself, knowing that those who can are no longer able to do so.Silly to waste time on in my book.</blockquote>Yeah, seriously. Thanks, Gahnand.I really wish this RL stuff I keep seeing where people just want to screw other people over just because it's amusement didn't spill into gaming so much. I really, really do.

Neskonlith

08-08-2011, 04:22 PM

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zaktull@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its another of those "righetous" changes that serves no other purpose than making those who are unable to do it/take advantage of it feel better about themself, knowing that those who can are no longer able to do so. Silly to waste time on in my book.</blockquote>Yeah, seriously. Thanks, Gahnand.I really wish this RL stuff I keep seeing where people just want to screw other people over just because it's amusement didn't spill into gaming so much. I really, really do.</blockquote>Perhaps SOE hopes that players will enjoy the newly revamped lowbie gear longer when Beastlords are rolled out and all the fun farm spots are nuked, making the new alt grind harder.

Felshades

08-08-2011, 05:32 PM

<cite>Raviel@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>does it really matter if people want to do that? it doesnt have to be done with chelsith, it can be done with ANY instance in game. are you suggesting that every instance shouldnt give xp?</blockquote>No, but most instances don't respawn that fast and don't give crud for xp.The reason I'm asking is because they obviously don't want people farming chelsith for xp. People still will if they don't.I'm not referring to xp entirely. I'm referring to "kill it, get xp. It respawns, kill it, no xp" which is what I'm understanding this nerf to do.Unless they don't give any at all, which is stupid because those things like to sneak up on people. Should give it on the first kill imo. Justifiable player homocide. Payback. >.>

Felshades

08-08-2011, 05:35 PM

That, and you guys took the thread in a different direction. I don't care if it's right or wrong or who does or does not enjoy farming respawning instanced mobs for xp.Personally I call it "exploitation of unintended circumstance" but I personally don't give a rats either way. I don't do it, you do, whatever.I asked a simple question, due to the reason for the change in the first place was to keep players out of chelsith for farming. If you can reset the zone and clear the trash again, the change did not really change anything.

Talathion

08-08-2011, 05:37 PM

Enjoy your locked down instances, when next double exp comes along no new players will be able to do anything.I will personally make sure my spots are completely locked down.

Nevao

08-08-2011, 05:54 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Enjoy your locked down instances, when next double exp comes along no new players will be able to do anything.I will personally make sure my spots are completely locked down.</blockquote>Honestly if this is being done due to player complaints then the volume you've heard now is going to be nothing compared to what you're going to hear next double xp weekend. When the contested zones that are normally used are now locked down completely because they only support 2 to 3 individual players speed clearing them for AA there's going to be a riot of complaints. PoA for example can handle two, at most three sets (and only if all three groups are moving at a snails pace) of XP grinders. The rest will be about the same if not less. Suddenly you're going to go from "THEY SHOULDN"T BE ABLE TO DO THIS!" to "BAN THEM FOR MONOPOLIZING CONTENT I'M TRYING TO USE!".

PeterJohn

08-08-2011, 06:03 PM

A way to solve the problem off too few spots for grinding next double XP weekend: Make the next double XP weekend a "quest only" double experience. Or maybe even triple XP for quests. That way people can run all the instances and finish the shard quests there, getting XP the entire time. It would have to be a rate high enough to be comparable to what people are getting by drinding slimes or killing fish in the Hole.I would love to have huge amounts of XP from completing zones or quests on those types of weekend. I'm just not a kill-a-thousand-slimes grind kind of guy.

Trensharo

08-08-2011, 06:38 PM

<cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote>A way to solve the problem off too few spots for grinding next double XP weekend: Make the next double XP weekend a "quest only" double experience. Or maybe even triple XP for quests. That way people can run all the instances and finish the shard quests there, getting XP the entire time. It would have to be a rate high enough to be comparable to what people are getting by drinding slimes or killing fish in the Hole.I would love to have huge amounts of XP from completing zones or quests on those types of weekend. I'm just not a kill-a-thousand-slimes grind kind of guy.</blockquote>Quests will never be that fast, because there is travel involved.Zoning in and out of Chelsith will never be as fast as farming the blobs. Farming blobs never locked you out, so who cares if you can reset. You can clear all non-boss trash in Chelsith in 20 minutes or less. a 30 minute temp lock is just too long to make that a viable strat unless you're terrible in which case it definitely will not even begin to compare to the blobs because they are more trivial than the Yhalei trash (no stuns/knockbacks, etc.) and give more XP with almost instant respawn.When this change goes live, it's time to move on. Chelsith simply won't be nearly as good as it is. The blobs are the ONLY reason people go there for AA farming, otherwise any other 80 Instance would do just fine.Trying to use this terrible workaround as an attempt to try to bully the devs into not implementing this change (which is a good one, from my experience during double xp weekends/weeks) is laughable...

DuneWarrior

08-08-2011, 07:09 PM

<cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm not referring to xp entirely. I'm referring to "kill it, get xp. It respawns, kill it, no xp" which is what I'm understanding this nerf to do.</blockquote>Actually im willing to make a bet that the globs in chelsith going forward will not yield XP AT ALL... since that is how it is with other perpetually respawning mobs in other instanced zones where they have "fixed" them.. So NO they can still kill you, you can still kill them and you'll never get anything but debt.

Amanathia

08-08-2011, 07:15 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Enjoy your locked down instances, when next double exp comes along no new players will be able to do anything.I will personally make sure my spots are completely locked down.</blockquote>Yes, I'm sure no new players will be able to do anything. I don't think I've ever seen you post anything constructive, only "the sky is falling zomg the game will die!11" posts....This change is fine, being able to sit in one spot and afk-farm infinitely respawning mobs, obviously wasn't intended. On most servers there were entire groups of people sitting and doing this, many while AFK. It was silly. The sky isn't falling.The other thing is: there are better places to grind out the aa's on a double xp weekend, too. I didn't sit in chelsith, at all, many of my guildies did, and I got way more xp than they did--got an alt from 1 to 270 aa and from level 1 to 83 over the course of about 24 hours of playtime that weekend. It's easy to get crazy xp on a double xp weekend--the best strats for doing so don't involve sitting in one spot, and the best zones for if you want to stay in one zone, aren't commonly discussed or mentioned on the forums.

Gaige

08-08-2011, 07:35 PM

All this does is ensure open dungeons will be unplayable for the duration of double xp weekends~

Talathion

08-08-2011, 07:49 PM

<cite>Amanathia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Enjoy your locked down instances, when next double exp comes along no new players will be able to do anything.I will personally make sure my spots are completely locked down.</blockquote>Yes, I'm sure no new players will be able to do anything. I don't think I've ever seen you post anything constructive, only "the sky is falling zomg the game will die!11" posts....This change is fine, being able to sit in one spot and afk-farm infinitely respawning mobs, obviously wasn't intended. On most servers there were entire groups of people sitting and doing this, many while AFK. It was silly. The sky isn't falling.The other thing is: there are better places to grind out the aa's on a double xp weekend, too. I didn't sit in chelsith, at all, many of my guildies did, and I got way more xp than they did--got an alt from 1 to 270 aa and from level 1 to 83 over the course of about 24 hours of playtime that weekend. It's easy to get crazy xp on a double xp weekend--the best strats for doing so don't involve sitting in one spot, and the best zones for if you want to stay in one zone, aren't commonly discussed or mentioned on the forums.</blockquote>No, I'm saying I will lock down zones like SoS so people who want to grind there cannot because I will be powerleveling people for platinum <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Before the changes there were other places I could go to do this, but now I will be completely locking down contested zones.

slippery

08-08-2011, 09:09 PM

Increase the population! Merge servers! Yet the quantity of dungeons does not increase. If you want to take away respawning mobs as a means for people to grind AA (because lets face it, we are more than forced to grind AA) just means that the people who are actually trying to do the content because they enjoy get completely screwed, because now you are forcing everyone in to small areas that don't support the population. You put more than 2 people dedicated to grinding in almost any contested dungeon and you can forget about getting anything there.

Morghus

08-08-2011, 09:34 PM

They should just set all the contested dungeons to respawn about as fast as castle mistmoore or faster.

Odys

08-08-2011, 10:24 PM

Just a stupid move.In rare places (like cazic thule temple final ring) mob respawn at such a mad rate that making them no xp is fine. But in chelsith the flying orbs are poping at such an extreme rate.The consequence of the change will be more level 90 mentoring down dominating low level zones.This will affect negatively people adventuring in those zone normally (non mentored) and it may also cause anger/dispute among the people farming aas.Very very unwise.

Alenna

08-08-2011, 11:42 PM

Looks like GU 61 is going to go down in history as the GU with the most idiotic "fix what is not broken" game changes ever. Luckly they reveresed their minds on the AA line levels although they still have yet to change thier minds on the idiotic NBG fix what wasn't broken mechanic they are planing on puttng in. and now this, nerfing an instance that helping relieve the congestion in contested Dungeons during bonus xp weekends.They still haen't even acknowledged the concerns about the NBG "fix what wasn't broken" mechanic change. not even to explain thier reasoning. this is listening and communicating with the to the player base? I think not.

Felshades

08-08-2011, 11:59 PM

Wonder if they'll fix ravenscale repository i think it was? With those five named near marcus thex?Those five, if you kill them in the room they're in, just keep respawning. and they give AA. Was dropping about a percent per kill.Boring, but if you don't run out of power, its not too bad. Just.. boring.

Katz

08-09-2011, 12:05 AM

You know, this problem wouldn't exist if aa's came at a faster rate with leveling. Why do people even feel the need to grind aa's there? Why? Because they are deficient in aa's! So now, how will level 80+ people get their aa's? Especially if they are say, around 100 aa's and level 80? And no, I didn't grind aa's there. My main has plenty and my alts I don't care about. But some people actually want to play their alts in raids. Edit: and you do know every one you mention is likely to get hit with the nerf bat. I'm assuming you all want those places nerfed or you wouldn't be mentioning them.

Cratoh

08-09-2011, 12:45 AM

This is the reason that they ned to make chronomentoring only give combat and AA experience in instances, and for quest turn ins/named kills.Idiots that pay people like talathion to PL them and wreck zones, this is NOT how EQ2 devs ever intended levelling to progress, it is a completely broken mechanic, and has to be sorted out.Fixing chelsith requires a fix to chromomentored exp gain as well.

Talathion

08-09-2011, 12:50 AM

<cite>Cratoh wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is the reason that they ned to make chronomentoring only give combat and AA experience in instances, and for quest turn ins/named kills.Idiots that pay people like talathion to PL them and wreck zones, this is NOT how EQ2 devs ever intended levelling to progress, it is a completely broken mechanic, and has to be sorted out.Fixing chelsith requires a fix to chromomentored exp gain as well.</blockquote>Selling Powerleveling 200p/hour! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Felshades

08-09-2011, 12:51 AM

<cite>Katz wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know, this problem wouldn't exist if aa's came at a faster rate with leveling. Why do people even feel the need to grind aa's there? Why? Because they are deficient in aa's! So now, how will level 80+ people get their aa's? Especially if they are say, around 100 aa's and level 80? And no, I didn't grind aa's there. My main has plenty and my alts I don't care about. But some people actually want to play their alts in raids. Edit: and you do know every one you mention is likely to get hit with the nerf bat. I'm assuming you all want those places nerfed or you wouldn't be mentioning them.</blockquote>The one I mentioned was just something we noticed while trying to remember the strat for in there. That zone came out during one of my many breaks from the game and we were clearing out a ton of tso zones for xp/aa. We spent maybe 3 hours in a contested zone, and most of that was Castle Mistmoore in the epic area on the top floor.Contested Mayong still stinks.

Felshades

08-09-2011, 12:52 AM

<cite>Cratoh wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is the reason that they ned to make chronomentoring only give combat and AA experience in instances, and for quest turn ins/named kills.Idiots that pay people like talathion to PL them and wreck zones, this is NOT how EQ2 devs ever intended levelling to progress, it is a completely broken mechanic, and has to be sorted out.Fixing chelsith requires a fix to chromomentored exp gain as well.</blockquote>Exp gain for the chronomentored person doesn't matter if they're powerlevelling someone else. The other person is the one getting xp, not the PLer.

Talathion

08-09-2011, 12:55 AM

<cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cratoh wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is the reason that they ned to make chronomentoring only give combat and AA experience in instances, and for quest turn ins/named kills.Idiots that pay people like talathion to PL them and wreck zones, this is NOT how EQ2 devs ever intended levelling to progress, it is a completely broken mechanic, and has to be sorted out.Fixing chelsith requires a fix to chromomentored exp gain as well.</blockquote>Exp gain for the chronomentored person doesn't matter if they're powerlevelling someone else. The other person is the one getting xp, not the PLer.</blockquote>Funny, I got my 300 aa powerleveling people and "wrecking" zones. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />

Trensharo

08-09-2011, 01:19 AM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cratoh wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is the reason that they ned to make chronomentoring only give combat and AA experience in instances, and for quest turn ins/named kills.Idiots that pay people like talathion to PL them and wreck zones, this is NOT how EQ2 devs ever intended levelling to progress, it is a completely broken mechanic, and has to be sorted out.Fixing chelsith requires a fix to chromomentored exp gain as well.</blockquote>Exp gain for the chronomentored person doesn't matter if they're powerlevelling someone else. The other person is the one getting xp, not the PLer.</blockquote>Funny, I got my 300 aa powerleveling people and "wrecking" zones. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>And that's just terrible...A decently geared Necro or Warlock can mass pull and Wreck Zones. That doesn't somehow many you good, or does it make the situation in Chelsith anything approaching balanced.SOE needs to curb the length of AAs down. They need to settle on a value and not increase the XP in AAs because it's creating two issues:1. Peeps are camping certain zones to mass kill MOBs.2. Peeps are locking XP at low levels and grinding to near if not max AA.

Davngr1

08-09-2011, 01:44 AM

finding good spots to get grind is part of MMO's, i has been done ever since eq and will stay the way that most choose to play this game. you're accomplishing nothing by taking away good experience spots fromt he player base, if anything you should creating good experience zones for players. i would like to see "hot zones" like eq1 choose lowbie zones that people can crono to or bring alts to and have it be a different zone every week. that would bring life to the lower levels and allow people to enjoy the end game quicker as well.

Talathion

08-09-2011, 02:02 AM

Marnus

08-09-2011, 02:09 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>finding good spots to get grind is part of MMO's, i has been done ever since eq and will stay the way that most choose to play this game. you're accomplishing nothing by taking away good experience spots fromt he player base, if anything you should creating good experience zones for players. i would like to see "hot zones" like eq1 choose lowbie zones that people can crono to or bring alts to and have it be a different zone every week. that would bring life to the lower levels and allow people to enjoy the end game quicker as well.</blockquote>I like that idea-I loved the hotzones in EQ1-they changed them up every few months, so it was a different zone for each level range, and those zones had an increased exp modifier-they also had a guy in Plane of Knowledge that handed out quests for the hotzones , that gave decent exp and cash, and armor upgrades. I wish they would do this in eq2. I know they kind of do with the daily shard/mark missions, but as Davngr1 wrote, it would really help people at lower levels.

Ilovecows

08-09-2011, 02:13 AM

<cite>Marnus@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>finding good spots to get grind is part of MMO's, i has been done ever since eq and will stay the way that most choose to play this game. you're accomplishing nothing by taking away good experience spots fromt he player base, if anything you should creating good experience zones for players. i would like to see "hot zones" like eq1 choose lowbie zones that people can crono to or bring alts to and have it be a different zone every week. that would bring life to the lower levels and allow people to enjoy the end game quicker as well.</blockquote>I like that idea-I loved the hotzones in EQ1-they changed them up every few months, so it was a different zone for each level range, and those zones had an increased exp modifier-they also had a guy in Plane of Knowledge that handed out quests for the hotzones , that gave decent exp and cash, and armor upgrades. I wish they would do this in eq2. I know they kind of do with the daily shard/mark missions, but as Davngr1 wrote, it would really help people at lower levels.</blockquote>They do something similar with the chronomages. they give quests that award some xp and give faction with the chronomages, but i don't think most people care about the chronomages and their faction at all...Anyways, it gives you a quest to chrono down to certain level and go enter a lower level zone and kill someone in there. it can be fun often to be reminded of zones you haven't been to in years or just didn't even know existed.

KaezilCB

08-09-2011, 11:17 AM

As someone who quit the game about 6 months into SF, I was excited to be able to have a way to catch back up on the ever-increasing AA cap. I think one of the main issues in bringing in new people to the game is that if you're starting off at lvl 1 and looking at 300 (soon to be 350 probably) AA, that's a pretty daunting task. So what if every double exp weekend (which is like once every month or 2), people are able to catch up on the AA climb? If you're going to force your players to grind AA, then don't get all up in arms when they find a way to do it. Being able to catch up in AA from where I left off was part of what got me really excited coming back to the game. I mean, I'm sure I can find other places to do it, but what's the point if those places start getting taken away later on. *shrug*

Nevao

08-09-2011, 11:20 AM

<cite>KaezilCB wrote:</cite><blockquote>As someone who quit the game about 6 months into SF, I was excited to be able to have a way to catch back up on the ever-increasing AA cap. I think one of the main issues in bringing in new people to the game is that if you're starting off at lvl 1 and looking at 300 (soon to be 350 probably) AA, that's a pretty daunting task. So what if every double exp weekend (which is like once every month or 2), people are able to catch up on the AA climb? If you're going to force your players to grind AA, then don't get all up in arms when they find a way to do it. Being able to catch up in AA from where I left off was part of what got me really excited coming back to the game. I mean, I'm sure I can find other places to do it, but what's the point if those places start getting taken away later on. *shrug*</blockquote>This can also happen on alts as well. My Lock is sitting on a shelf barely used since so much of his power is tied up in AA's, but becuase he was stareted pre-KoS he's always been behind the curve since he's not a "main".

Banditman

08-09-2011, 11:24 AM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>What will be done to enable contested dungeons to support the population you just booted from instances durring bonus weekends?</blockquote>This needs an answer, because frankly, this is the root of the Chelsith problem.Chelsith XP isn't really very good, the only good thing about it is that it is uncontested.Everyone who is doing these double XP grind groups would, by far, prefer to have a sizeable chunk of Sebilis or perhaps PoA to grind. The problem is that with the current mechanics, a single group can *easily* monopolize the entire basement of Sebilis. There simply isn't enough content available in contested instances to support the added population brought in by these events.Strangely, this has been pointed out MULTIPLE times in the past that the move away from contested dungeons is a mistake. Now, it appears, that problem is going to be brought to the fore.

Geothe

08-09-2011, 11:27 AM

They really need to make the multiple instance triggers on contested dungeons much lower.12 or so for SoS, PoA, Seb. Around 18 or so for The Hole.

p3t3rl1

08-09-2011, 11:45 AM

Chelsith was nerfed because people were using it to AFK and grind AA. Yeah, people were botting and AFKing all day there. That was why.

Hirofortis

08-09-2011, 11:48 AM

Sadly we all knew that SOE can't fix broken content so they focus on other areas to see what they can break. This is just another knee jerk reaction in the players faces. There will always be grind spots and with them screwing up chelstih other places will pop up and when enoughlearn about them SOE will screw them up as well. The hole is a great example. It was a great place to go though when it frist came out. NOw it is another piece of useless content. Congrat SOE on just making more content useless. It is what you are good at.Maybe you should actually focus on fixing all the things that are screwed up first. I know that is a novel idea. Oh wait, maybe now they will just add a SC potion to give you the xp back so they can make more money. Sounds about right. See here is the real issue, Current content is messed up so everyone grinds in places like chelstih. SOE Dev: Hey, lets screw up the places they are grinding in so they will be forced to go do the broken content.SOE Dev 2: THats great. Then they will be forced to use the content instead of trying to get xp there. Problem solved. Now they can say they fixed something and people are using the content. Too bad they miss the point. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Laenai

08-09-2011, 11:51 AM

I'd sure like to know how folks could AFK grind in Chelsith, because I ground out AA there for over 13 hours to get AA and if I went AFK, I was dead.How about instead of "fixing" things that aren't broken- like XP in Chelsith or the NBG system, we fix the broken shaman dogs instead? You know...the honest to goodness broken stuff.

DuneWarrior

08-09-2011, 12:00 PM

<cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd sure like to know how folks could AFK grind in Chelsith, because I ground out AA there for over 13 hours to get AA and if I went AFK, I was dead.How about instead of "fixing" things that aren't broken- like XP in Chelsith or the NBG system, we fix the broken shaman dogs instead? You know...the honest to goodness broken stuff.</blockquote>Good idea, but apparently to much work.

Nevao

08-09-2011, 12:08 PM

<cite>p3t3rl1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Chelsith was nerfed because people were using it to AFK and grind AA. Yeah, people were botting and AFKing all day there. That was why. </blockquote>If that's what they need to fix I completely understand it. But the current solution is going to punish everyone not just the AFK'ers unless something dramatically changes.

Delimant

08-09-2011, 12:58 PM

<cite>p3t3rl1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Chelsith was nerfed because people were using it to AFK and grind AA. Yeah, people were botting and AFKing all day there. That was why. </blockquote>So what's to stop someone from afk-autofollowing someone like Talathion and getting their AA that way, in any other dungeon?

p3t3rl1

08-09-2011, 01:04 PM

We are talking about people staying in that zones for days at a time, not just AFk for a few hrs.As the mob spawn in one spot, one simply has to stand there in one spot and cast their aoe abilties and snag the mobs up. Perfect AFK grind spot.

Banditman

08-09-2011, 01:44 PM

Yimway

08-09-2011, 01:46 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>That is a classic "cut off the nose to spite the face". I guarantee you there are a vast majority who are using the zone on a perfectly "legal" basis and will be hurt by this change.</blockquote>Truth

Amanathia

08-09-2011, 02:38 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>They really need to make the multiple instance triggers on contested dungeons much lower.12 or so for SoS, PoA, Seb. Around 18 or so for The Hole.</blockquote>Yeah this would be a logical change and increase fun for a lot of people, 18 or so is probably a good cutoff honestly for content that is 1 or 2 expansions old. 12 is too few really. I'd probably make the hole 24, there's enough to support 4 groups that are killing like mad, or more--there's some areas no one goes on our server, anyway, on the rat side.Here's the thing though..it's easy to get almost your full 300 AA on a double xp weekend, without doing anything like sitting in one spot killing infinitely respawning mobs over and over. I was able to get from 1-83 in levels and 1 to 270aa, without doing anything like sitting in one spot, during this past 2x xp weekend, and I don't even have a tank to PL with. I only have a couple pieces of raid gear, too. I didn't even play on Sunday, either, I work that day. So anyone saying that oh this will ruin them being able to get 300 aa, nahhh--it has zero effect on it. There are spots much better than chelsith, but you need to think a little bit to figure out where to go--the only reason to do chelsith on a 2x xp weekend is to actually do a quick clear of the whole zone for fun. This game has a ton of content available, there is plenty to go around. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Nevao

08-09-2011, 02:44 PM

The real problem with taking Celsith out (and I would assume they would do the same with any other similar spots found in instances) is that it's going to drive a slew of people to non-instanced zones flooding those zones. If you want to take this away then make sure there's enough room to handle people in the "contested zones".And on the comment about 12 for older zones? Unfortuantely that's still going to be too high. Few of those zones can handle 3 people, much less 12.

Davngr1

08-09-2011, 02:51 PM

my bruiser or sk can kill all the mobs on the bottom floor of seb and be back at the start before they respawn. now imagine what 2 groups could do. you can't make them instance dungons because they are suppose to be contested. what they need to do is leave instance grinding alone or offer some type of "hotzone" system that sends people to different instances to benefit from the bonus. it would make promote grouping all around. it's been more than once that i have seen a cheltish gring group and that's with the minimal exp it has now.

Hirofortis

08-09-2011, 06:57 PM

<cite>p3t3rl1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>We are talking about people staying in that zones for days at a time, not just AFk for a few hrs.As the mob spawn in one spot, one simply has to stand there in one spot and cast their aoe abilties and snag the mobs up. Perfect AFK grind spot. </blockquote>For some reason you seem to misunderstand the definition of AFK. Away From Keyboard. The grind spot in chelsith is not really an afk spot, unless maybe your a conjy or necro doin it, and even then I bet you die mroe oft than not doin that. With that being said, the respawn rate is what makes the spot so nice. The faster you kill, the faster it respawns. As long as you do not miss a mob it is a constant stream of mobs without waiting. This is why it is a good grind spot. Can this be done in other locations, sure, and now it will be. I would love to hear the devs actual reasons for doing this. What it really boils down to is slowing down how fast people get aa's. See the faster people get to the top, the quicker they look for somethign else to play, at least that is how marketting is spinning it. Is there really a need for this nerf, maybe, I don't have the data one way or the other, but will it fix the issue, not in the least. People will just go to other locations that they can grind. If people are actually AFK leveling here, then stop them. For the rest, Stop punishing the whole server.

Trensharo

08-09-2011, 06:57 PM

<cite>Amanathia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>They really need to make the multiple instance triggers on contested dungeons much lower.12 or so for SoS, PoA, Seb. Around 18 or so for The Hole.</blockquote>Yeah this would be a logical change and increase fun for a lot of people, 18 or so is probably a good cutoff honestly for content that is 1 or 2 expansions old. 12 is too few really. I'd probably make the hole 24, there's enough to support 4 groups that are killing like mad, or more--there's some areas no one goes on our server, anyway, on the rat side.Here's the thing though..it's easy to get almost your full 300 AA on a double xp weekend, without doing anything like sitting in one spot killing infinitely respawning mobs over and over. I was able to get from 1-83 in levels and 1 to 270aa, without doing anything like sitting in one spot, during this past 2x xp weekend, and I don't even have a tank to PL with. I only have a couple pieces of raid gear, too. I didn't even play on Sunday, either, I work that day. So anyone saying that oh this will ruin them being able to get 300 aa, nahhh--it has zero effect on it. There are spots much better than chelsith, but you need to think a little bit to figure out where to go--the only reason to do chelsith on a 2x xp weekend is to actually do a quick clear of the whole zone for fun. This game has a ton of content available, there is plenty to go around. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>No, that's not logical at all. That's still keeping in easymode content so people can faceroll because they don't want a challenge.The logical thing would be to ratchet up the difficulty proportional with what they're dropping after the revamp to make it much harder for people to gather up half a zone and kill it with little to no risk.That's what they need to do.

Trensharo

08-09-2011, 07:06 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>my bruiser or sk can kill all the mobs on the bottom floor of seb and be back at the start before they respawn. now imagine what 2 groups could do. you can't make them instance dungons because they are suppose to be contested. what they need to do is leave instance grinding alone or offer some type of "hotzone" system that sends people to different instances to benefit from the bonus. it would make promote grouping all around. it's been more than once that i have seen a cheltish gring group and that's with the minimal exp it has now.</blockquote>Hot zones would offer the same issues. People would congregate there. They need to significantly bump the XP gainin normal instances. My alt ran CC and I got only 14% of an AA. Why should I spend that much time running that when I get almost that much from one blob pack in Chelsith having it sit at the zone in while I kill them on my main grouped for the RaF bonus? For those terrible gear drops? 2 Shards? Lol. No.Chelsith was an obvious issue, IMO (and zones that have spawns like it), but the real issue is the amount of AAs in the game, how useless your character is without decent AAs, and how the AA level lengths scale.Quests give terrible AA. Level 90 Dungeons give terrible AA unless it's your first time running them. Only certain classes can faceroll dungeons like Sebilis due to Fears and stuff like that. That's why it's always the same archetypes chain pulling those zones. Chelsith was unique in that almost anyone could faceroll those blobs endlessly. Even healers were soloing their AAs in there with little to no risk. I don't see healers pulling trains in PoA/SoS/Sebility/Chardok.

Cocytus

08-09-2011, 07:36 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>my bruiser or sk can kill all the mobs on the bottom floor of seb and be back at the start before they respawn. now imagine what 2 groups could do. you can't make them instance dungons because they are suppose to be contested. what they need to do is leave instance grinding alone or offer some type of "hotzone" system that sends people to different instances to benefit from the bonus. it would make promote grouping all around. it's been more than once that i have seen a cheltish gring group and that's with the minimal exp it has now.</blockquote>Hot zones would offer the same issues. People would congregate there. They need to significantly bump the XP gainin normal instances. My alt ran CC and I got only 14% of an AA. Why should I spend that much time running that when I get almost that much from one blob pack in Chelsith having it sit at the zone in while I kill them on my main grouped for the RaF bonus? For those terrible gear drops? 2 Shards? Lol. No.Chelsith was an obvious issue, IMO (and zones that have spawns like it), but the real issue is the amount of AAs in the game, how useless your character is without decent AAs, and how the AA level lengths scale.Quests give terrible AA. Level 90 Dungeons give terrible AA unless it's your first time running them. Only certain classes can faceroll dungeons like Sebilis due to Fears and stuff like that. That's why it's always the same archetypes chain pulling those zones. Chelsith was unique in that almost anyone could faceroll those blobs endlessly. Even healers were soloing their AAs in there with little to no risk. I don't see healers pulling trains in PoA/SoS/Sebility/Chardok.</blockquote>QFE

Amanathia

08-09-2011, 09:01 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite>Chelsith was an obvious issue, IMO (and zones that have spawns like it), but the real issue is the amount of AAs in the game, how useless your character is without decent AAs, and how the AA level lengths scale.Quests give terrible AA. Level 90 Dungeons give terrible AA unless it's your first time running them. Only certain classes can faceroll dungeons like Sebilis due to Fears and stuff like that. That's why it's always the same archetypes chain pulling those zones. Chelsith was unique in that almost anyone could faceroll those blobs endlessly. Even healers were soloing their AAs in there with little to no risk. I don't see healers pulling trains in PoA/SoS/Sebility/Chardok.</blockquote>1. I don't the it's difficult to get your AAs up at all, and you don't need 300 to be useful, about 250 or so fits the bill.2. Having a lot of AA is nice. More variety would be nice, too.3. Agree 100% on the lvl90 stuff in velious not giving enough AA. For sure. Doesn't really make a lot of sense. Quests should also give mor AA, it shouldn't be vastly faster to simply plow through endless piles of lower level mobs while self-mentored than running more challenging content. Agree 100% here.4. No way man, everyone can faceroll Seb lol, some just take more gear than others. You don't see healers soloing instances a lot on your server? They are everywhere on crushbone. Some healers have great AA's for aoe-ing stuff down. Yeah there's fears in lower seb but like say ur a defiler or mystic with decent gear, no way that stuff is ever going to kill you even if you get feared accross half of the basement, unless you're totally awful at playing the game.

Davngr1

08-09-2011, 09:02 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>my bruiser or sk can kill all the mobs on the bottom floor of seb and be back at the start before they respawn. now imagine what 2 groups could do. you can't make them instance dungons because they are suppose to be contested. what they need to do is leave instance grinding alone or offer some type of "hotzone" system that sends people to different instances to benefit from the bonus. it would make promote grouping all around. it's been more than once that i have seen a cheltish gring group and that's with the minimal exp it has now.</blockquote>Hot zones would offer the same issues. People would congregate there. They need to significantly bump the XP gainin normal instances. My alt ran CC and I got only 14% of an AA. Why should I spend that much time running that when I get almost that much from one blob pack in Chelsith having it sit at the zone in while I kill them on my main grouped for the RaF bonus? For those terrible gear drops? 2 Shards? Lol. No.Chelsith was an obvious issue, IMO (and zones that have spawns like it), but the real issue is the amount of AAs in the game, how useless your character is without decent AAs, and how the AA level lengths scale.Quests give terrible AA. Level 90 Dungeons give terrible AA unless it's your first time running them. Only certain classes can faceroll dungeons like Sebilis due to Fears and stuff like that. That's why it's always the same archetypes chain pulling those zones. Chelsith was unique in that almost anyone could faceroll those blobs endlessly. Even healers were soloing their AAs in there with little to no risk. I don't see healers pulling trains in PoA/SoS/Sebility/Chardok.</blockquote> well it would be instances not just contested content and would offer *hopefully* a good alternative to cheltish blobs and i do agree with you, thre really aren't any zones to grind in peace for classes that aren't set up for mass killing.

Trensharo

08-10-2011, 01:17 AM

<cite>Amanathia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite>Chelsith was an obvious issue, IMO (and zones that have spawns like it), but the real issue is the amount of AAs in the game, how useless your character is without decent AAs, and how the AA level lengths scale.Quests give terrible AA. Level 90 Dungeons give terrible AA unless it's your first time running them. Only certain classes can faceroll dungeons like Sebilis due to Fears and stuff like that. That's why it's always the same archetypes chain pulling those zones. Chelsith was unique in that almost anyone could faceroll those blobs endlessly. Even healers were soloing their AAs in there with little to no risk. I don't see healers pulling trains in PoA/SoS/Sebility/Chardok.</blockquote>1. I don't the it's difficult to get your AAs up at all, and you don't need 300 to be useful, about 250 or so fits the bill.I started from scratch. Don't tell me it's not difficult without being PL'd or sitting in zones like Chelsith during 2x XP weekends. It's hard. Not RL Hard Labor Hard, but difficult. Take into perspective how they can be obtained (Questing for AA in terrible, doing instances with other players is terrible due to time wasted forming groups (or time spent doing other terrible methods while you form up) travel time, the fact that instances give terrible AAXP, and the fact that you gain less XP the more people you add to a party. Also take into account the generally low server populations, which make LFG woefully inefficient compared to sitting in these zones grinding...250 AAs is a lot of AAs. Lots of people let their alts collect dust until a 2x XP weekend so they can use it solely to grind AAs on those toons.It's not really about what you think, it's about what a majority of people think. I think behavioral pattern changes during 2x XP weekends speaks for itself. 90% of the toons dinging are not main characters or new players (dunno why people are using 'new players' as an excuse... what 'new players'?), they're alts and boxed characters.2. Having a lot of AA is nice. More variety would be nice, too.250 AAs is a lot. I find it odd that 250 AAs or so fits the bill, yet 300 is "a lot". 150 AAs isn't a lot. That can be gained mostly during the leveling process. 250 goes well beyond that. It's a lot, IMO. Having to hard grind 100 AAs at 90 before you can start NOT feeling like you're dead weight in any level 90 party (if you want to raid most people will expect at least 277, and you need to grind instances for gear) is a terrible experience. I've been there.3. Agree 100% on the lvl90 stuff in velious not giving enough AA. For sure. Doesn't really make a lot of sense. Quests should also give mor AA, it shouldn't be vastly faster to simply plow through endless piles of lower level mobs while self-mentored than running more challenging content. Agree 100% here.4. No way man, everyone can faceroll Seb lol, some just take more gear than others. You don't see healers soloing instances a lot on your server? They are everywhere on crushbone. Some healers have great AA's for aoe-ing stuff down. Yeah there's fears in lower seb but like say ur a defiler or mystic with decent gear, no way that stuff is ever going to kill you even if you get feared accross half of the basement, unless you're totally awful at playing the game.I'm not even going to respond to this other than to say what I said before. I don't see healers pulling trains in those zones. Healers don't kill fast enough for it to be that lucrative, anyways.</blockquote>Red Text.

Amanathia

08-10-2011, 02:45 AM

What the majority would want would be getting things handed to them extremely easily. What the hardcore want is for the majority to be way worse off than them--the balance has to be in the middle somewhere. If you are a brand new player you can be at the cap and usefully geared up in a month or so, with enough AAs to group, if that is really what you want to do--most take it slower because leveling up and seeing stuff for first time is quite fun. Seems reasonable to me. It's certainly much easier now than in the previous expansion, with the PQ gear being good enough for instances and with a few crit mit adorns good enough for starting to raid as a dps class... For a new player, too, taking away the infinte respawn xp isn't going to harm them in any way.If you are a new player and want to get to 90 super fast to play with a friend, the'll RAF you and you can get there in a few days instead of a month or so of casual play. I don't think the leveling and AA leveling speed in this game is really taken as a serious complaint at the moment, it's mostly that itemization is so wonky and awful and unimaginative.As for healers not being able to AOE stuff down at the moment....you may want to look at the defiler/mystic heroic AAs. . . .you probably just haven't seen them in action <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> They are nuts...plus a lot of people are just all about that aoe proc stuff from SF anyway. At the moment defilers and mystics can take out quite a few tower of frozen shadow epic x2 bosses-solo.Fact is there are tons of zones available to use for getting xp and this change really only effects those who were afk leveling, or extremely lazy. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Being able to stand in one spot and get xp forever obviously wasn't intended, people just like to delude themselves.Edit: the real thing that needs to be done is increase the AA that running velious instances gives (and kael contested) by a lot...

Katz

08-10-2011, 08:23 AM

<cite>Amanathia wrote:</cite><blockquote>What the majority would want would be getting things handed to them extremely easily. What the hardcore want is for the majority to be way worse off than them--the balance has to be in the middle somewhere. If you are a brand new player you can be at the cap and usefully geared up in a month or so, with enough AAs to group, if that is really what you want to do--most take it slower because leveling up and seeing stuff for first time is quite fun. Seems reasonable to me. It's certainly much easier now than in the previous expansion, with the PQ gear being good enough for instances and with a few crit mit adorns good enough for starting to raid as a dps class... For a new player, too, taking away the infinte respawn xp isn't going to harm them in any way.If you are a new player and want to get to 90 super fast to play with a friend, the'll RAF you and you can get there in a few days instead of a month or so of casual play. I don't think the leveling and AA leveling speed in this game is really taken as a serious complaint at the moment, it's mostly that itemization is so wonky and awful and unimaginative.As for healers not being able to AOE stuff down at the moment....you may want to look at the defiler/mystic heroic AAs. . . .you probably just haven't seen them in action <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> They are nuts...plus a lot of people are just all about that aoe proc stuff from SF anyway. At the moment defilers and mystics can take out quite a few tower of frozen shadow epic x2 bosses-solo.Fact is there are tons of zones available to use for getting xp and this change really only effects those who were afk leveling, or extremely lazy. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Being able to stand in one spot and get xp forever obviously wasn't intended, people just like to delude themselves.Edit: the real thing that needs to be done is increase the AA that running velious instances gives (and kael contested) by a lot...</blockquote>Templars can do that? There are more than 2 types of healers.

LygerT

08-10-2011, 02:08 PM

why do we have double XP weekends and then nerfs to zones to keep people from gaining AA too quickly?i swear i feel like cutting myself every time SOE does something like this. how many people do you see making 300 AA in just a few days? is it worth cutting out that avenue for the rest of us?the real answer is: NO

Felshades

08-10-2011, 02:48 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amanathia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite>Chelsith was an obvious issue, IMO (and zones that have spawns like it), but the real issue is the amount of AAs in the game, how useless your character is without decent AAs, and how the AA level lengths scale.Quests give terrible AA. Level 90 Dungeons give terrible AA unless it's your first time running them. Only certain classes can faceroll dungeons like Sebilis due to Fears and stuff like that. That's why it's always the same archetypes chain pulling those zones. Chelsith was unique in that almost anyone could faceroll those blobs endlessly. Even healers were soloing their AAs in there with little to no risk. I don't see healers pulling trains in PoA/SoS/Sebility/Chardok.</blockquote>1. I don't the it's difficult to get your AAs up at all, and you don't need 300 to be useful, about 250 or so fits the bill.I started from scratch. Don't tell me it's not difficult without being PL'd or sitting in zones like Chelsith during 2x XP weekends. It's hard. Not RL Hard Labor Hard, but difficult. Take into perspective how they can be obtained (Questing for AA in terrible, doing instances with other players is terrible due to time wasted forming groups (or time spent doing other terrible methods while you form up) travel time, the fact that instances give terrible AAXP, and the fact that you gain less XP the more people you add to a party. Also take into account the generally low server populations, which make LFG woefully inefficient compared to sitting in these zones grinding...250 AAs is a lot of AAs. Lots of people let their alts collect dust until a 2x XP weekend so they can use it solely to grind AAs on those toons.It's not really about what you think, it's about what a majority of people think. I think behavioral pattern changes during 2x XP weekends speaks for itself. 90% of the toons dinging are not main characters or new players (dunno why people are using 'new players' as an excuse... what 'new players'?), they're alts and boxed characters.2. Having a lot of AA is nice. More variety would be nice, too.250 AAs is a lot. I find it odd that 250 AAs or so fits the bill, yet 300 is "a lot". 150 AAs isn't a lot. That can be gained mostly during the leveling process. 250 goes well beyond that. It's a lot, IMO. Having to hard grind 100 AAs at 90 before you can start NOT feeling like you're dead weight in any level 90 party (if you want to raid most people will expect at least 277, and you need to grind instances for gear) is a terrible experience. I've been there.3. Agree 100% on the lvl90 stuff in velious not giving enough AA. For sure. Doesn't really make a lot of sense. Quests should also give mor AA, it shouldn't be vastly faster to simply plow through endless piles of lower level mobs while self-mentored than running more challenging content. Agree 100% here.4. No way man, everyone can faceroll Seb lol, some just take more gear than others. You don't see healers soloing instances a lot on your server? They are everywhere on crushbone. Some healers have great AA's for aoe-ing stuff down. Yeah there's fears in lower seb but like say ur a defiler or mystic with decent gear, no way that stuff is ever going to kill you even if you get feared accross half of the basement, unless you're totally awful at playing the game.I'm not even going to respond to this other than to say what I said before. I don't see healers pulling trains in those zones. Healers don't kill fast enough for it to be that lucrative, anyways.</blockquote>Red Text.</blockquote>I never got power levelled.My mystic here hit level 90 with about 230 AA. Shes got about 260 right now. 230 was a decent enough spot to start with at 90. You don't need all 300 right when you hit level 90.It wasn't hard. It wasn't difficult. It just took longer to level with my slider at around 80% most of the time than some people would like to take levelling.

Cocytus

08-10-2011, 05:04 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amanathia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite>Chelsith was an obvious issue, IMO (and zones that have spawns like it), but the real issue is the amount of AAs in the game, how useless your character is without decent AAs, and how the AA level lengths scale.Quests give terrible AA. Level 90 Dungeons give terrible AA unless it's your first time running them. Only certain classes can faceroll dungeons like Sebilis due to Fears and stuff like that. That's why it's always the same archetypes chain pulling those zones. Chelsith was unique in that almost anyone could faceroll those blobs endlessly. Even healers were soloing their AAs in there with little to no risk. I don't see healers pulling trains in PoA/SoS/Sebility/Chardok.</blockquote>1. I don't the it's difficult to get your AAs up at all, and you don't need 300 to be useful, about 250 or so fits the bill.I started from scratch. Don't tell me it's not difficult without being PL'd or sitting in zones like Chelsith during 2x XP weekends. It's hard. Not RL Hard Labor Hard, but difficult. Take into perspective how they can be obtained (Questing for AA in terrible, doing instances with other players is terrible due to time wasted forming groups (or time spent doing other terrible methods while you form up) travel time, the fact that instances give terrible AAXP, and the fact that you gain less XP the more people you add to a party. Also take into account the generally low server populations, which make LFG woefully inefficient compared to sitting in these zones grinding...250 AAs is a lot of AAs. Lots of people let their alts collect dust until a 2x XP weekend so they can use it solely to grind AAs on those toons.It's not really about what you think, it's about what a majority of people think. I think behavioral pattern changes during 2x XP weekends speaks for itself. 90% of the toons dinging are not main characters or new players (dunno why people are using 'new players' as an excuse... what 'new players'?), they're alts and boxed characters.2. Having a lot of AA is nice. More variety would be nice, too.250 AAs is a lot. I find it odd that 250 AAs or so fits the bill, yet 300 is "a lot". 150 AAs isn't a lot. That can be gained mostly during the leveling process. 250 goes well beyond that. It's a lot, IMO. Having to hard grind 100 AAs at 90 before you can start NOT feeling like you're dead weight in any level 90 party (if you want to raid most people will expect at least 277, and you need to grind instances for gear) is a terrible experience. I've been there.3. Agree 100% on the lvl90 stuff in velious not giving enough AA. For sure. Doesn't really make a lot of sense. Quests should also give mor AA, it shouldn't be vastly faster to simply plow through endless piles of lower level mobs while self-mentored than running more challenging content. Agree 100% here.4. No way man, everyone can faceroll Seb lol, some just take more gear than others. You don't see healers soloing instances a lot on your server? They are everywhere on crushbone. Some healers have great AA's for aoe-ing stuff down. Yeah there's fears in lower seb but like say ur a defiler or mystic with decent gear, no way that stuff is ever going to kill you even if you get feared accross half of the basement, unless you're totally awful at playing the game.I'm not even going to respond to this other than to say what I said before. I don't see healers pulling trains in those zones. Healers don't kill fast enough for it to be that lucrative, anyways.</blockquote>Red Text.</blockquote>Agreeing with your red text here, and I want to elaborate on point 1.You (Amanathia) are seriously wrong if you think it's not hard to get 300 AA. It's not hard for YOU, or people LIKE YOU (like me...it's not super-ahrd for me either) because we are veterans. We're at cap. We're not starting from scratch. We're not new players. We have a lot of advantages and ways to gain these things faster. In my case? Even when AA cap is raised. I have the best raid gear from the previous expansion which helps me totally blast away everything for super quick AA to meet the new cap.But a new player? Seriously, new/returning players that have been on a long hiatus are royally screwed. It's really, really tedious/annoying/hard for them. To say otherwise is honestly kind of just ignorance of the issue.

Gungo

08-10-2011, 05:17 PM

I never used chelsith respawning afk blob killing and i doubt most random leveling newbs did as well.I read this entire post and honestly all i read is a bunch of afk botting and people who randomly powerlevel toons crying about easy mode ak AA farming being removed.Then there is the random complaints that questing doesnt give enough AA, which is complete and utter nonsense. I also see people crying about lack of groups then in the same feakin post crying how they and the other hundreds of players they say will be mad of by this change will no longer be able to solo afk farm AA. Here is a novel idea group the fruk up. Do some quests, go clear some heroic zones and kill some named I am quite sure your alt has never done before. Gaining AA is a joke. and double xp/double AA weekends doesnt really need help with more AA gain. Its respawning adds in ONE freaking zone if it gave so much AA that it makes you cry then it was obviously broken. If it makes a few hundred people get out of thier solo afk farming instance and group up then this change did what it needed to do.

Amanathia

08-10-2011, 06:56 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>I never used chelsith respawning afk blob killing and i doubt most random leveling newbs did as well.I read this entire post and honestly all i read is a bunch of afk botting and people who randomly powerlevel toons crying about easy mode ak AA farming being removed.Then there is the random complaints that questing doesnt give enough AA, which is complete and utter nonsense. I also see people crying about lack of groups then in the same feakin post crying how they and the other hundreds of players they say will be mad of by this change will no longer be able to solo afk farm AA. Here is a novel idea group the fruk up. Do some quests, go clear some heroic zones and kill some named I am quite sure your alt has never done before. Gaining AA is a joke. and double xp/double AA weekends doesnt really need help with more AA gain. Its respawning adds in ONE freaking zone if it gave so much AA that it makes you cry then it was obviously broken. If it makes a few hundred people get out of thier solo afk farming instance and group up then this change did what it needed to do.</blockquote>+1 for common sense. XP in velious instances could stand to be boosted a bit, though, it shouldn't provide more to self mentor down and slaughter lower mobs, imho, than to have more of a challenging facing appropriate content.

LygerT

08-10-2011, 07:02 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then there is the random complaints that questing doesnt give enough AA, which is complete and utter nonsense.</blockquote>i don't know about that, i honestly think killing 1-2 mobs shouldn't be equal to the xp that a quest gives while in the lower levels. so does that mean mobs give too much xp or the quests give too little? IMO i think the quests give too little if you have to adjust your slider to generally be able to hit 90 and actually have more than 140-150 AAs.problem is they don't want people to lock toons and be running around with 200AAs at level 30. there is no easy answer, but taking away some ways people might use to get AA as alternatives isn't going to help the situation, especially since they are only affecting the people at max level.

Amanathia

08-10-2011, 07:25 PM

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><cite></cite>It's not hard for YOU, or people LIKE YOU (like me...it's not super-ahrd for me either) because we are veterans. We're at cap. We're not starting from scratch. We're not new players. We have a lot of advantages and ways to gain these things faster. In my case? Even when AA cap is raised. I have the best raid gear from the previous expansion which helps me totally blast away everything for super quick AA to meet the new cap.But a new player? Seriously, new/returning players that have been on a long hiatus are royally screwed. It's really, really tedious/annoying/hard for them. To say otherwise is honestly kind of just ignorance of the issue.</blockquote>May wanna look at my join date there. =) I just started playing this game last year. I didn't have *ANY* raid gear, none, hadn't even stepped foot in a SF raid zone, ever, when DoV started. Leveling is pretty easy and quick. PQ gear with some quest stuff is good enough to blast away stuff in previous expansions. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It's really just not that bad to be a new player in this game. I'd say PQs were a godsend!1. You can get to 90 in a month or so, easily. If you're recruited with RAF to join a friend, it's obviously a diff story and you can be there faster.2. You will have enough plat just by selling shinies to buy MC stuff every 20 levels or so if you are completely solo. Who know how the new item revamp stuff will be, might make it even easier! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Shinies are a godsend for new players, you can make so much money on them. (Mining of course too, but that requires "effort" to keep the skill up) <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />3. DOV kills will be pretty slow when you get there at first if you have awful gear (like I did), but you'll manage...within a few hours you'll have quite a bit of gear from the starting quests. Then, simply do ring war PQ (takes 5mins every 2 hours), and storm ringwar a few times for the items that only drop there, when you ding 90, equip 'em, and you're ready to go for instances (may need a little more if you are going to be the tank, but even then with a good healer you can do CCC, ascent, etc!)4. That gear is plenty good enough to, if you wish, chrono yourself down a bit and destroy old zones. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I can totally understand someone who is makign their 10th character being annoyed at having to get 300 aa all over again though. I simply don't have very many chars, which keeps things easy. If I had 10 chars trying to get them all to 300 would be unfortunate, for sure. But then again, having that many level 90s is only feasable because of how fast leveling really is. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Trensharo

08-10-2011, 11:25 PM

<cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amanathia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite>Chelsith was an obvious issue, IMO (and zones that have spawns like it), but the real issue is the amount of AAs in the game, how useless your character is without decent AAs, and how the AA level lengths scale.Quests give terrible AA. Level 90 Dungeons give terrible AA unless it's your first time running them. Only certain classes can faceroll dungeons like Sebilis due to Fears and stuff like that. That's why it's always the same archetypes chain pulling those zones. Chelsith was unique in that almost anyone could faceroll those blobs endlessly. Even healers were soloing their AAs in there with little to no risk. I don't see healers pulling trains in PoA/SoS/Sebility/Chardok.</blockquote>1. I don't the it's difficult to get your AAs up at all, and you don't need 300 to be useful, about 250 or so fits the bill.I started from scratch. Don't tell me it's not difficult without being PL'd or sitting in zones like Chelsith during 2x XP weekends. It's hard. Not RL Hard Labor Hard, but difficult. Take into perspective how they can be obtained (Questing for AA in terrible, doing instances with other players is terrible due to time wasted forming groups (or time spent doing other terrible methods while you form up) travel time, the fact that instances give terrible AAXP, and the fact that you gain less XP the more people you add to a party. Also take into account the generally low server populations, which make LFG woefully inefficient compared to sitting in these zones grinding...250 AAs is a lot of AAs. Lots of people let their alts collect dust until a 2x XP weekend so they can use it solely to grind AAs on those toons.It's not really about what you think, it's about what a majority of people think. I think behavioral pattern changes during 2x XP weekends speaks for itself. 90% of the toons dinging are not main characters or new players (dunno why people are using 'new players' as an excuse... what 'new players'?), they're alts and boxed characters.2. Having a lot of AA is nice. More variety would be nice, too.250 AAs is a lot. I find it odd that 250 AAs or so fits the bill, yet 300 is "a lot". 150 AAs isn't a lot. That can be gained mostly during the leveling process. 250 goes well beyond that. It's a lot, IMO. Having to hard grind 100 AAs at 90 before you can start NOT feeling like you're dead weight in any level 90 party (if you want to raid most people will expect at least 277, and you need to grind instances for gear) is a terrible experience. I've been there.3. Agree 100% on the lvl90 stuff in velious not giving enough AA. For sure. Doesn't really make a lot of sense. Quests should also give mor AA, it shouldn't be vastly faster to simply plow through endless piles of lower level mobs while self-mentored than running more challenging content. Agree 100% here.4. No way man, everyone can faceroll Seb lol, some just take more gear than others. You don't see healers soloing instances a lot on your server? They are everywhere on crushbone. Some healers have great AA's for aoe-ing stuff down. Yeah there's fears in lower seb but like say ur a defiler or mystic with decent gear, no way that stuff is ever going to kill you even if you get feared accross half of the basement, unless you're totally awful at playing the game.I'm not even going to respond to this other than to say what I said before. I don't see healers pulling trains in those zones. Healers don't kill fast enough for it to be that lucrative, anyways.</blockquote>Red Text.</blockquote>I never got power levelled.My mystic here hit level 90 with about 230 AA. Shes got about 260 right now. 230 was a decent enough spot to start with at 90. You don't need all 300 right when you hit level 90.It wasn't hard. It wasn't difficult. It just took longer to level with my slider at around 80% most of the time than some people would like to take levelling.</blockquote>Healers are different. Tanks and DPS are completely different. Some classes will be missing key skills without more AAs. A healer with worse gear and bad AAs can be carried by a good tank. A DPS doesn't have his output increase by 30% just because they have a great tank or healer in the group. A tank won't NOT get 1 rounded if cleanse lands just because a great healer is in the group if he is significantly short in AAs.Keep in mind that these people also do not have mains/alts to heirloom gear to them, and they'll be starting out in DoV with bear minimum gear. There's just too much missing. Gear is subpar, AAs are subpar, they may or may not have Mythical Buff, they will certainly be missing lots of Master spells and maybe even some Experts.Healers are a terrible example to use for retort, AFAICT.And yes, for a true newb it's hard to get that many AAs in a *reasonable* timeframe. Most of the playerbase is at 90, adn those below 90 are Alts with Account-level XP bonuses or boxed RaF accounts to speed level them (or they are paying/getting PL'd by someone/another toon). Most of those players quit before they get to 75 due to the sheer boredom of the quest grind...And you expect them to level with the AA slider set to 80%?That takes way too much time for a true new player who will inevitably be forced to solo much of that.

Trensharo

08-10-2011, 11:28 PM

<cite>Amanathia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><cite></cite>It's not hard for YOU, or people LIKE YOU (like me...it's not super-ahrd for me either) because we are veterans. We're at cap. We're not starting from scratch. We're not new players. We have a lot of advantages and ways to gain these things faster. In my case? Even when AA cap is raised. I have the best raid gear from the previous expansion which helps me totally blast away everything for super quick AA to meet the new cap.But a new player? Seriously, new/returning players that have been on a long hiatus are royally screwed. It's really, really tedious/annoying/hard for them. To say otherwise is honestly kind of just ignorance of the issue.</blockquote>May wanna look at my join date there. =) I just started playing this game last year. I didn't have *ANY* raid gear, none, hadn't even stepped foot in a SF raid zone, ever, when DoV started. Leveling is pretty easy and quick. PQ gear with some quest stuff is good enough to blast away stuff in previous expansions. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> It's really just not that bad to be a new player in this game. I'd say PQs were a godsend!1. You can get to 90 in a month or so, easily. If you're recruited with RAF to join a friend, it's obviously a diff story and you can be there faster.2. You will have enough plat just by selling shinies to buy MC stuff every 20 levels or so if you are completely solo. Who know how the new item revamp stuff will be, might make it even easier! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> Shinies are a godsend for new players, you can make so much money on them. (Mining of course too, but that requires "effort" to keep the skill up) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />3. DOV kills will be pretty slow when you get there at first if you have awful gear (like I did), but you'll manage...within a few hours you'll have quite a bit of gear from the starting quests. Then, simply do ring war PQ (takes 5mins every 2 hours), and storm ringwar a few times for the items that only drop there, when you ding 90, equip 'em, and you're ready to go for instances (may need a little more if you are going to be the tank, but even then with a good healer you can do CCC, ascent, etc!)4. That gear is plenty good enough to, if you wish, chrono yourself down a bit and destroy old zones. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />I can totally understand someone who is makign their 10th character being annoyed at having to get 300 aa all over again though. I simply don't have very many chars, which keeps things easy. If I had 10 chars trying to get them all to 300 would be unfortunate, for sure. But then again, having that many level 90s is only feasable because of how fast leveling really is. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>My join date is 2008 because I trialed the game during the Living Legacy promotion (in TSO). I got to level 20 and quit. Then in teh second one (in SF) I got to level 48 and quit again, until March of this year when I started playing full time.I started at 48 in DoV, and almost quit again about 10x. It was sheer perseverance and a lot of free time that carried me through to 90. If I was an average player, I certainly would not have continued. I have RaF'd 2 friends since then and neither of them got to level 20 before /uninstalling because the game is so freaking boring to play at those levels. The quest grind is that bad.I got to level 90 with 166 AAs and had to grind 85% of the rest of them solo. I was virtually useless in DoV content until I had about 250'ish AAs.I'm leveling up an alt now (I didn't PL it during the 2x XP because I need something to do outside of raids, maxing another toon out on AA would delete yet another thing to do) and in DoV heroic groups it's performance is terrible, with 230'ish AAs. I even have some raid gear on it. It's night and day. The AAs almost matter more than the Adventure levels IRT how much you gain per level/point. If it was a HEALER, then I could start my own groups and just refuse tanks of same AA level and be fine. That's not hard to do. Like I said, a great healer or tank will not add 30% to that character's performance. A great tank can mitigate the effects of low AAs/worse gear on a healer...Gear never really was an issue. The problem isn't the gear. It's the game and the amount of pedestrian quests required to go from 1-90 solo. 1-85 is practically dead. The XP from quests is terrible. Combat XP from non-heroic MOBs above level 20 or so is a joke. It's depressing to play... It's Chrono Trigger all the way up to 85-90...If everything was how it should be, the need to chrono down to "destroy old zones" wouldn't be there.The problem with your post is that you're assuming (from what I read) that the issues are at level 90. They aren't. Most people who try this game and quit (which most who try this game these days do) quit well before they can get PQ gear. And reitmizign the lower end will, help, but not enough. They need to do a low level revamp for the quest chains, etc. the way WoW did. Cut down on the number of quests and up the XP and rewards from them. If you're looking at it from the perspective of a new player, PQ gear doesn't matter. No one cares that much abotu something that is 89 levels away that they can't even get yet. They care about the experience getting to that point. That's where the game is failing right now.

Davngr1

08-11-2011, 05:47 AM

i can pretty much lock down any zone i want boxing my toons. frankly i like grinding instances for to level my toons AA because i feel bad for groups when i take all their mobs. i'm not here crying about loosing something, i'm here asking about what other options are available, that don't involve locking down contested spawn zones? because that IS the best exp, mobs that spawn.

Trensharo

08-11-2011, 10:26 AM

Grinding is the best way to gain XP in this game. Where you do it is the only question that needs to be answered. Quests are terrible. I did about 20 quests in Grt Div on my alt and only got like 1.4 AAs. That's ridiculous. Those quests took a long time to do. Enough time for me to PL 3-5 AAs depending on where I did it.

Amanathia

08-11-2011, 03:22 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>It was sheer perseverance and a lot of free time that carried me through to 90. If I was an average player, I certainly would not have continued. I have RaF'd 2 friends since then and neither of them got to level 20 before /uninstalling because the game is so freaking boring to play at those levels. The quest grind is that bad.If you're looking at it from the perspective of a new player, PQ gear doesn't matter. No one cares that much abotu something that is 89 levels away that they can't even get yet. They care about the experience getting to that point. That's where the game is failing right now.</blockquote>Sheer perserverance to get to 90 in this game? Have you done anything that actually *did* require some? Like leveling to 60 back in the kunark days of EQ1? Level 59 in EQ1 required perserverance. Building a large model airplane or an ultralight or a boat requires perserverance. Getting to 90 in this game doesn't require perserverance, just a couple hours after work each day for a couple weeks.If you recruited people and they quit before getting to 20, I don't know what to tell you. It takes just a couple hours, being a brand new player, to be level 20. I think, as a brand new player when I started as a complete newbie, it took me about 3 hours to get level 20. You could do it faster if you just ran around killing I'm sure. Slower if you stopped to smell the roses...I read the quest text, ran around doing what they told me to, and killing stuffs, in the Gorowyn area...(if your friends started in freepot or queynos when you could, I can't speak for those areas, never did them). It was super fast. Level 20-30 fly by so fast that everyone on my server always recommends people to turn their AA slider up past 50% so they can experience the content (the world is actually pretty cool, experiencing it for the first time...butcherblock and steamfont are neat zones). If you don't turn the slider up you'll breeze through the zones so fast you won't see half of them.If people find leveling to 20 too slow, and get bored, MMOs probably just aren't for them. And that's okay, some people simply don't enjoy them! This game has a lot of issues, but leveling speed isn't one of them--for a brand new player who doesn't simply want to get 90, it's so fast that one is better off turning the slider way up or you will go so fast you won't get to see much of the world (unless you chrono and go back, of course).Anyway, if one wants a place to simply grind in essentially one spot, chelsith could still be done in theory, it would involve running out, resetting, etc...but there are better spots. There's zones that have a) tons of densely packed easy to kill trash b) a long long way to the first boss with tons of trash on the way in a nice easy path without requiring running around and backtracking. =p There's also a couple places where mobs give insane xp per kill, die *fairly fast* (but you need a group or good gear), but involve a long lockout so can't be ran over and over.

Aerinn

08-11-2011, 11:39 PM

<cite>Gaige wrote:</cite><blockquote>All this does is ensure open dungeons will be unplayable for the duration of double xp weekends~</blockquote>Yup. This is a nerf that's a case of someone whining because others play the game differently. With the AA cap at 300 and increasing, getting a 90 up with all of their AA is just not practical anymore.If SOE wants to FORCE players to quest for AA, they need to double or triple the base AA from all quests in the game. Without grinding like that you can do in Chelsith on double AA weekends, hitting cap takes too much time when running up an alt to help with groups/raids. It also takes too long to get friends up to play effectively with you.Post this nerf, double AA really isn't a big deal anymore except for the 1 or 2 people in the public areas. It only takes 3 groups to make most grinding spots pointless....even Kael contested (which offers a lot of xp) gets overrun very fast.I think I'm starting to lose my passion for this game... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Aerinn

08-11-2011, 11:53 PM

<cite>Amanathia wrote:</cite><blockquote>[...] Like leveling to 60 back in the kunark days of EQ1? Level 59 in EQ1 required perserverance. Building a large model airplane or an ultralight or a boat requires perserverance. [...] as a brand new player when I started as a complete newbie, it took me about 3 hours to get level 20. [...]If people find leveling to 20 too slow, and get bored, MMOs probably just aren't for them. [...]</blockquote>... and walked uphill in snow neck deep both ways just to get a drink!Seriously though, some people prefer to do it hard, and some have jobs and use the game to chill out. Some do as many quests as they can find, others grind in one spot. SOE keeps coming up with new ways to play their game (e.g. dungeon builder, housing, crafting, adventuring, questing, LoN, etc.). Why try to snuff out one valid way people could play that had NO impact on others playing.People will still grind xp, they'll just be doing it by scooping up the mobs you were about to kill with your buddies. Nothing is as community building as having a 90 SK dragging his Inquisitor buddy around on SoS when you're in there at level trying to xp.Look, some people try to drive nails into boards using their forehead, others use a hammer, and still others use a nail gun. So aside from jealousy or e-pene envy, why care if someone got their ogre troubie to 90 following a different path than you took?I'd much rather see ALL of the better xp grinding spots changed into instances...so the jerk 90 SK and his inquisitor buddy don't screw up how *I* play the game in public areas.My $0.02

Gungo

08-11-2011, 11:57 PM

<cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then there is the random complaints that questing doesnt give enough AA, which is complete and utter nonsense.</blockquote>i don't know about that, i honestly think killing 1-2 mobs shouldn't be equal to the xp that a quest gives while in the lower levels. so does that mean mobs give too much xp or the quests give too little? IMO i think the quests give too little if you have to adjust your slider to generally be able to hit 90 and actually have more than 140-150 AAs.problem is they don't want people to lock toons and be running around with 200AAs at level 30. there is no easy answer, but taking away some ways people might use to get AA as alternatives isn't going to help the situation, especially since they are only affecting the people at max level.</blockquote>You do realize we are talking about aa not xp. You also realize NORMAL npcs dont give AA only named. (unless its converted xp to aa). Xp wise questing is slower then grinding at low levels, but you do end up with alot of AA's.

Gungo

08-11-2011, 11:59 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i can pretty much lock down any zone i want boxing my toons. frankly i like grinding instances for to level my toons AA because i feel bad for groups when i take all their mobs. i'm not here crying about loosing something, i'm here asking about what other options are available, that don't involve locking down contested spawn zones? because that IS the best exp, mobs that spawn.</blockquote>The best xp/aa is doing heroic instances you havent done before because you end up with alot of aa gain and xp. Stuff like the scaling tso zones give alot of aa and xp.Of course the easiest way to level is just sit in chelsith and afk level while you sleep.

Odys

08-12-2011, 12:06 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grinding is the best way to gain XP in this game. Where you do it is the only question that needs to be answered. Quests are terrible. I did about 20 quests in Grt Div on my alt and only got like 1.4 AAs. That's ridiculous. Those quests took a long time to do. Enough time for me to PL 3-5 AAs depending on where I did it.</blockquote>I totally agree on that, being almost forced to farm aa mass killing heroic while self emntoring is one of horrible apsect of the game.Going to POW, Rivervalles, Cleft or anywhere else to "farm" AAs is something i dislike, but i did it during the double xp weekd end.I don't want to deny people who hate questing to get AAs for their last toon by simply chain killing mobs. But i would like questing or going into instances & grouping to ba as efficient.For this to happen we need AAxp given by quest, named, exploration to be increased a lot.

Davngr1

08-12-2011, 12:17 AM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i can pretty much lock down any zone i want boxing my toons. frankly i like grinding instances for to level my toons AA because i feel bad for groups when i take all their mobs. i'm not here crying about loosing something, i'm here asking about what other options are available, that don't involve locking down contested spawn zones? because that IS the best exp, mobs that spawn.</blockquote>The best xp/aa is doing heroic instances you havent done before because you end up with alot of aa gain and xp. Stuff like the scaling tso zones give alot of aa and xp.Of course the easiest way to level is just sit in chelsith and afk level while you sleep.</blockquote> actually the best way to level AA is to grind cheltish for a few hours at a time killing all the mobs that spawn. no clue how you afk kill these mobs and make any proggress since they seldomly agro and even with a high riposte chance or a pet class in auto defend, you won't kill more then a couple mobs. fact is i can log in to the game zone into cheltish and know for a fact i'll be earning .3% per spawn with an average of 60 spawns per hour that's 2 or 3 AA an hour. questing won't average that and neither will running heroic zones since you have to first find a group, then wait till it fills, then run the zone and if you're low on AA, you better hope that the other 5 players AREN'T low on AA so they can carry you thru the zone. i would love another option to this but right now there just isin't one. increasing quest aa would sorta work but doing quest is not my thing and i dont care what the game is called i like to kill stuff. increasing BG's AA reward to 4%-6% by adding repeatable kill quest or just raw AA would be a great option. adding "hot zones" like eq1 would be another great option and would bring life to the lower levels. these are all options and you can't call everyone on this thread afk'rs because i have IN FACT seen and been in cheltish EXPERIENCE groups that had nothing to do with afk's exept when someone had to use the bath room. the AA are getting high enough that this is becoming an issue and developers need to find a remedy, thanks.

Trensharo

08-12-2011, 12:49 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i can pretty much lock down any zone i want boxing my toons. frankly i like grinding instances for to level my toons AA because i feel bad for groups when i take all their mobs. i'm not here crying about loosing something, i'm here asking about what other options are available, that don't involve locking down contested spawn zones? because that IS the best exp, mobs that spawn.</blockquote>The best xp/aa is doing heroic instances you havent done before because you end up with alot of aa gain and xp. Stuff like the scaling tso zones give alot of aa and xp.Of course the easiest way to level is just sit in chelsith and afk level while you sleep.</blockquote> actually the best way to level AA is to grind cheltish for a few hours at a time killing all the mobs that spawn. no clue how you afk kill these mobs and make any proggress since they seldomly agro and even with a high riposte chance or a pet class in auto defend, you won't kill more then a couple mobs. fact is i can log in to the game zone into cheltish and know for a fact i'll be earning .3% per spawn with an average of 60 spawns per hour that's 2 or 3 AA an hour. questing won't average that and neither will running heroic zones since you have to first find a group, then wait till it fills, then run the zone and if you're low on AA, you better hope that the other 5 players AREN'T low on AA so they can carry you thru the zone. i would love another option to this but right now there just isin't one. increasing quest aa would sorta work but doing quest is not my thing and i dont care what the game is called i like to kill stuff. increasing BG's AA reward to 4%-6% by adding repeatable kill quest or just raw AA would be a great option. adding "hot zones" like eq1 would be another great option and would bring life to the lower levels. these are all options and you can't call everyone on this thread afk'rs because i have IN FACT seen and been in cheltish EXPERIENCE groups that had nothing to do with afk's exept when someone had to use the bath room. the AA are getting high enough that this is becoming an issue and developers need to find a remedy, thanks.</blockquote>It's not hard to AFK there. I'm not even going to go into detail. It's not worth it. And no, I don't do that in Chelsith. XP Rates is non-factor when it's free XP you get while you aren't even at the keyboard.

Felshades

08-12-2011, 01:38 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Healers are different. Tanks and DPS are completely different. Some classes will be missing key skills without more AAs. A healer with worse gear and bad AAs can be carried by a good tank. A DPS doesn't have his output increase by 30% just because they have a great tank or healer in the group. A tank won't NOT get 1 rounded if cleanse lands just because a great healer is in the group if he is significantly short in AAs.Keep in mind that these people also do not have mains/alts to heirloom gear to them, and they'll be starting out in DoV with bear minimum gear. There's just too much missing. Gear is subpar, AAs are subpar, they may or may not have Mythical Buff, they will certainly be missing lots of Master spells and maybe even some Experts.Healers are a terrible example to use for retort, AFAICT.And yes, for a true newb it's hard to get that many AAs in a *reasonable* timeframe. Most of the playerbase is at 90, adn those below 90 are Alts with Account-level XP bonuses or boxed RaF accounts to speed level them (or they are paying/getting PL'd by someone/another toon). Most of those players quit before they get to 75 due to the sheer boredom of the quest grind...And you expect them to level with the AA slider set to 80%?That takes way too much time for a true new player who will inevitably be forced to solo much of that.</blockquote>That's what its there for. The slider. Mystic was my first 90. My dirge I started back up at 80 with 121 AA. Shes pushing 240 atm at 89. He inability to solo worth a dang in DoV has nothing to do with her AA. It has everything to do with those mobs need a HECK of a lot less HP. And I'm not even joking. Kiting an equal level mob for half a minute to kill it is not what should be required of a solo con mob. Fix it.That said, getting AA is NOT HARD. It's time consuming. Not hard. There's a difference.And before you think the quest grind and taking too long to level is what drove them off, take a look at wow. I can get an 85 character by sneezing, and i left because it was boring. I'd rather not have levelling turn that way here any more than it has already.

Talathion

08-12-2011, 02:33 AM

feldon30

08-12-2011, 03:55 AM

Heritage Quests should give a guaranteed minimum amount of AA XP. Like an entire AA or two.

Trensharo

08-12-2011, 05:01 AM

<cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Healers are different. Tanks and DPS are completely different. Some classes will be missing key skills without more AAs. A healer with worse gear and bad AAs can be carried by a good tank. A DPS doesn't have his output increase by 30% just because they have a great tank or healer in the group. A tank won't NOT get 1 rounded if cleanse lands just because a great healer is in the group if he is significantly short in AAs.Keep in mind that these people also do not have mains/alts to heirloom gear to them, and they'll be starting out in DoV with bear minimum gear. There's just too much missing. Gear is subpar, AAs are subpar, they may or may not have Mythical Buff, they will certainly be missing lots of Master spells and maybe even some Experts.Healers are a terrible example to use for retort, AFAICT.And yes, for a true newb it's hard to get that many AAs in a *reasonable* timeframe. Most of the playerbase is at 90, adn those below 90 are Alts with Account-level XP bonuses or boxed RaF accounts to speed level them (or they are paying/getting PL'd by someone/another toon). Most of those players quit before they get to 75 due to the sheer boredom of the quest grind...And you expect them to level with the AA slider set to 80%?That takes way too much time for a true new player who will inevitably be forced to solo much of that.</blockquote>That's what its there for. The slider. Mystic was my first 90. My dirge I started back up at 80 with 121 AA. Shes pushing 240 atm at 89. He inability to solo worth a dang in DoV has nothing to do with her AA. It has everything to do with those mobs need a HECK of a lot less HP. And I'm not even joking. Kiting an equal level mob for half a minute to kill it is not what should be required of a solo con mob. Fix it.That said, getting AA is NOT HARD. It's time consuming. Not hard. There's a difference.And before you think the quest grind and taking too long to level is what drove them off, take a look at wow. I can get an 85 character by sneezing, and i left because it was boring. I'd rather not have levelling turn that way here any more than it has already.</blockquote>Hard is a subjective term. You know what I mean. Timesinks are type of difficulty put in the game put i to slow down players' progression. AA grinding is a timesink, and the slider mechanism is a sad excuse and nothing but an obvious admission of the core issue. If a character cannot level through normal means without artificially slowing down their Adventure XP rate to 90 with a decent amount of AAs (150 AAs won't even get you TSO and SF Endlines), then IMO it's too hard. This is a 7 (?) year old game. It's not RIFT.I don't care what you find acceptable or not. You're just one player willing to bend over. I care about what the hoards of potential players out there thing when they install this game and began to play it. I can't get anyone to keep playing this game for more than two weeks, and it's not because "the game just isn't for them." It's cause the AA system has practically eclipsed the Adventure Levels in "importance" and it's too hard for someone with no in-game resources to grind them up in an acceptable timespan.Nor do I want to be beholden to PLing every RaF I recruit into the game. The game should be balanced so that mechanisms like that slider, RaF, and 2x XP weekends aren't virtual requirements to start up and catch up to the majority of the playerbase in an acceptable timeframe.---DoV MOBs are hard for new players now because SoE practically deleted the SF expansion when they launched DoV. Half of the SF Quest Content is skipped by most players because Othmir quests start at 85/86 and Kunark-SF Quest Rewards aren't good enough to give you really good kill speeds in the DoV quest zones. That changes once you get most of the Othmir Quest armor (or a PQ Set and Weapon).I did Epic at 80 and Enervated my alt at 85 so I'm not sure what it's like to not have that (nevermind on a melee class, since I've never played a melee class in an MMORPG before).Even SF quest MOBs seem to hit hard and have a lot of HP when you first get there. That's the way things work...If you have at least Othmir Quest Armor on and you're still complaining, then the issue is not the MOBs.---Also, I still play and raid in WoW. It has nothing to do with EQ2's problems outside of being a competitor.In the latest expansion WoW revamped the entire levels 1-60. All the quests and quest rewards got revamped. The quests give more XP and it's a lot less pedestrian than it was prior to that (the expansion content never had those issues, tho). WoW is currently a lot more casual friendly because the XP curve is much lower. You only have levels and gear to obtain.I don't even know why you brought WoW up. I guess it's every MMORPG's fans' secret weapon these days?It's much faster to level a toon to 90 in EQ2 grinding MOBs than it is in WoW. You can't really speed level toons that way in WoW because it has no Mentor System. Even with their Recruit a Friend system you have to Quest Grind because there are no places like EQ2 contested dungeons where you can mass pull that amount of MOBs and without EQ2-like Mentors speeding through the lower levels is much less viable there.The only thing that makes EQ2 slower is the AA grind, but aren't we trying to address that particular issue in this thread? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />I don't wanna turn this game into WoW. I just would like them to broaden the appeal because the more people I (we?) can bring over, the better the game is for all of us.

Felshades

08-12-2011, 03:11 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your dirge just needs her mythical/more aa/more multi-attack, then you can DPS them down in a matter of seconds. (Maybe one hit).I could help you if you were on AB, I <3 Kerrans<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>She's got her mythical, 70% MA, 236 AA. Being 89 means I can't use the stockpile of weapons and armor I have in my bank, as well as the adorns I have sitting in there from PQs as well -_- Can't even apply those till 90.80% crit. I do just fine when I don't have to kill it myself >< Quested weapons being 2 different speeds I'm not sure helps either. <giggles> Got a 4s dagger and 6s sword from the otter and gnoll quests. Ha.

Felshades

08-12-2011, 03:36 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hard is a subjective term. You know what I mean. Timesinks are type of difficulty put in the game put i to slow down players' progression. AA grinding is a timesink, and the slider mechanism is a sad excuse and nothing but an obvious admission of the core issue. If a character cannot level through normal means without artificially slowing down their Adventure XP rate to 90 with a decent amount of AAs (150 AAs won't even get you TSO and SF Endlines), then IMO it's too hard. This is a 7 (?) year old game. It's not RIFT.Of course it's not RIFT. If it was, I wouldn't be playing it. You seem to be the type to want to rush to end game and think the game should be delivered to you in the manner that suits that play style. You want "hard to get decent amount of AA go play EQ1. They have a few thousand of them now.I don't care what you find acceptable or not. You're just one player willing to bend over. I care about what the hoards of potential players out there thing when they install this game and began to play it. I can't get anyone to keep playing this game for more than two weeks, and it's not because "the game just isn't for them." It's cause the AA system has practically eclipsed the Adventure Levels in "importance" and it's too hard for someone with no in-game resources to grind them up in an acceptable timespan.You don't care what I find acceptable, I don't care what you find unacceptable. We're even. I've successfully brought a few people over here and they've stayed. Because they like not having everything handed to them right upfront.Nor do I want to be beholden to PLing every RaF I recruit into the game. The game should be balanced so that mechanisms like that slider, RaF, and 2x XP weekends aren't virtual requirements to start up and catch up to the majority of the playerbase in an acceptable timeframe.If you acceptable time frame you mean the 2 weeks it takes to get to 90 if you don't give a crud about your AA, then how about no? Double XP weekends imo are for catching up alts. Not new players. If it were, then any new account made would have double xp for a certain amount of time starting from creation.---DoV MOBs are hard for new players now because SoE practically deleted the SF expansion when they launched DoV. Half of the SF Quest Content is skipped by most players because Othmir quests start at 85/86 and Kunark-SF Quest Rewards aren't good enough to give you really good kill speeds in the DoV quest zones. That changes once you get most of the Othmir Quest armor (or a PQ Set and Weapon).I did Epic at 80 and Enervated my alt at 85 so I'm not sure what it's like to not have that (nevermind on a melee class, since I've never played a melee class in an MMORPG before).I did Epic at 80, Ennervated at 85 on four toons now. Not having that isn't a problem. You said you've never played a melee class. My dirge is a melee class. Everyone I've spoken to that's tried to do the entry quests in DoV on a melee class that was NOT decked in SF raid gear has said the same thing... Control immune mobs(can't be stunned, so I can't use two of my hardest hitters) with absurd amounts of HP. I don't care that they hit hard. I do care that they hit hard and unless I kite them for half a minute(which is entirely too long to kill a solo con mob with no arrows) they WILL in fact kill me. And don't get me started on those Ry'Gorr mountaineers that reset if you so much as stun them to get behind, or move them from their spawn spot half the time, or those stupid frozen rock guys in Storm Gorge that split in half when they're halfway dead. And you have to kill both parts to get credit. Your "get pq gear and a weapon" arguement falls flat because I cannot equip the things for another 75% of a level. And yes, I fully completed SF questlines. I completed most of Kunark while I was 80 for AA before starting SF. I should be able to do quests that start at 86, AT 86 without having major issues. And there's not much more for me to fill out on her AA lines aside the DoV AA, which I just unlocked not too long ago(81). If you MUST have those(can't even get them all if you started with a SF capped, AA capped toon) to go through the Othmir quests there's a problem.Even SF quest MOBs seem to hit hard and have a lot of HP when you first get there. That's the way things work...If you have at least Othmir Quest Armor on and you're still complaining, then the issue is not the MOBs.SF quest mobs didn't hit hard or have a lot of HP and I was wearing cruddyy quest gear when I got there on all but one character(warlock, had RoK raid gear).---Also, I still play and raid in WoW. It has nothing to do with EQ2's problems outside of being a competitor.I quit raiding in WoW when Arthas was the shiz and the whiners got the raids turned into loot pinatas.In the latest expansion WoW revamped the entire levels 1-60. All the quests and quest rewards got revamped. The quests give more XP and it's a lot less pedestrian than it was prior to that (the expansion content never had those issues, tho). WoW is currently a lot more casual friendly because the XP curve is much lower. You only have levels and gear to obtain.And the latest expansion gives you jack all to do once you level that character to 85 and max your reps out and the raids are done for the week. You can outlevel a zone before you get a third of the quests done. I've taken four toons through the new 1-60 content and I honestly think they wasted their time because players ignore most of the content and move on when they outlevel it, then whine that outlands and northrend take too long to level through.I don't even know why you brought WoW up. I guess it's every MMORPG's fans' secret weapon these days?Because you want this game's levelling curve exactly like it. And you want everything handed to you, just like over there. It's not my secret weapon. I've probably been playing it longer than you have. I'm probably one of it's biggest defenders over here as well. You're arguing with the wrong person, chuckles.It's much faster to level a toon to 90 in EQ2 grinding MOBs than it is in WoW. You can't really speed level toons that way in WoW because it has no Mentor System. Even with their Recruit a Friend system you have to Quest Grind because there are no places like EQ2 contested dungeons where you can mass pull that amount of MOBs and without EQ2-like Mentors speeding through the lower levels is much less viable there.You don't need a mentor system there. It's fast enough. Even back in the old days of the original game, when people now complain it took FOREVERRRRR to level, I still managed to cap characters in about a week, real time. People did not want to grind mobs. Even the developers(who were hardcore EQ1 raiders) did not want to incorporate mob grinding. Instance mobs have had the XP amounts tweaked multiple times. They've made it clear that you do dungeons to get gear, reputation and finish quests. Not XP grind. I like it that way there. Most like it that way there. You want to grind, you play EverQuest. You want to quest, you play WoW. At least that's how it was for ages.... now, and since Kunark, if you wanted to level quickly outside double xp weekends you quested. -_-The only thing that makes EQ2 slower is the AA grind, but aren't we trying to address that particular issue in this thread? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />I don't wanna turn this game into WoW. I just would like them to broaden the appeal because the more people I (we?) can bring over, the better the game is for all of us.I'm not going to argue that the AA levelling rate needs tweaked. However I do still believe that there should be a grind to it. If you can gain max AA just by levelling to 90, it takes away part of the "theres still something to do after level cap" thing. When all you have left to do in game is log in and raid, you tend to drop off sooner than later. It's part of why I havent played WoW in a few months now. I have a full roster of level 85 characters. Healers, tanks mostly. I don't raid. I don't want to deal with the drama that comes with raid guilds and the players' inability to follow directions. The community is mostly horrible. But since I have nothing else to do with maxed reps, full emblem gear and whatnot, there's no point in playing it. So I don't. At least here I have something to do once I level cap. That isn't "raid or die".</blockquote>

Davngr1

08-12-2011, 04:17 PM

just understand that eq2 being an older game has most if not ALL it's action at the end game and that's why we need better venues to keep all our alts current with end game AA/level. that's it! that's why and i don't care if it's a hot zone or cheltish or any other place where i can devote a few hours of day(my play time) to improving my alts SO i can enjoy the game. also if anyone has anything to say about alts, your wrong because this game revolves around people leveling new alts specially now that beast lords are coming out.

Trensharo

08-12-2011, 11:23 PM

WoW is almost as old as EQ2. That game just has a higher replay value at the lower end, because it's less monotanous and itemization is a better.I can't respond to all the Red Text the other person put. It's too much and it's simply not worth going in circles.I stand by what I posted IRT to DoV.Someone already posted about the melee issue. The problem is the player, not the game there.Mages have the same issue in DoV because their Crit and CB/Potency is very low when they get there since no one does SF content. Even as a summoner just getting there not being able to do SF content decently, the MOBs were considerably harder than anything else.The SF MOBs were really difficult until I got like 60% crit, then they got easier.And that's not all that easy in quest-level pre-DoV gear with no adornments and terrible weapons having no decent access to instances for upgrades.WoW is slower to level in than EQ2. You can plow MOBs and be 90 in EQ2 in 1 day. You can get to 300 AA in 3 days or less by PLing. The only thing that matters is resources, and it bonks over new players because they don't have that, as everyone else speeds past them. In WoW it simply isn't that fast to level. If you think it's that fast, then you simply have no leveled a toon there in a long time.

KaezilCB

09-01-2011, 04:09 PM

So, has anything been done to the contested dungeons max occupancy levels, seeing as the blobs nerf was snuck in without any notes on the game update section?

Crismorn

09-01-2011, 04:18 PM

Elskidor

09-01-2011, 06:20 PM

Wouldn't hurt to turn Chelsith on for double xp weekends only. AFK guys can't farm there daily anymore, but briefly changing it for double weekends and you'd have more space for live players to move around grind. It's kinda train wrecked packed for players to get a lot of fun out of grinding Seb/Hole/Poa and all the contested zones. Chelsith in it's old form was a very helpful alternative for aa xp grinding. There just isn't alot of space in our little world. It's gonna get messy this weekend. I'm 90/300 on all my played toons, so I'm glad nobody is gonna be fighting over useing my tradeskill stations. Feel bad for everyone else out aa grinding though.

Deago

09-01-2011, 11:58 PM

They need to nerf the lv 10 orcs that swim off the islands in frostfang sea because that is about the easiest bot/afk place at lv 10.I see folks botting there all the time.

Stellannis

09-02-2011, 05:53 PM

<cite>Deago wrote:</cite><blockquote>They need to nerf the lv 10 orcs that swim off the islands in frostfang sea because that is about the easiest bot/afk place at lv 10.I see folks botting there all the time.</blockquote>Ooooo yea i've done that once...I'm not being rhetorical, but in a "private" instance, and not an open dungeon, why does everyone care what anyone else is doing? It doesn't make ::MY:: play less fun bc someone else gets 90/300 10x quicker than me. I am obviously missing the point and i'm genuinely asking for an explanation.I've drug numerous alts thru chelsith but i've never grinded the blobs. How boring. But if someone else wants to stand there for hours, why should I care?

Gungo

09-02-2011, 06:09 PM

<cite>Stellannis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deago wrote:</cite><blockquote>They need to nerf the lv 10 orcs that swim off the islands in frostfang sea because that is about the easiest bot/afk place at lv 10.I see folks botting there all the time.</blockquote>Ooooo yea i've done that once...I'm not being rhetorical, but in a "private" instance, and not an open dungeon, why does everyone care what anyone else is doing? It doesn't make ::MY:: play less fun bc someone else gets 90/300 10x quicker than me. I am obviously missing the point and i'm genuinely asking for an explanation.I've drug numerous alts thru chelsith but i've never grinded the blobs. How boring. But if someone else wants to stand there for hours, why should I care?</blockquote>Its a general rule and if you allow it to happen then it opens avenues in other more damaging ways. Such as AFK tradeskill botting. But why should you care if you tradeskill Bot in an instance. Such as Using macros to BOT multiple toons in heroic dungeons But why should you care if someone uses a third party program to BOT heroic instances. Such as that dude in wow who use to bot a whole raid.But why should you care if someone uses a third party program to BOT an entire raid instance.What about those Auto loot programs that accompany said afk botters. But why should you care if that person farms plat afk.What if the person doing this decides after he gets to 90 and actually plays this toon a lil bit he doesnt like this character and doesnt need this plat and sell s his plat and toon.But why should you care.How about you just play the dang game the way its meant to be played. Find some low level newbies group up and kill stuff. Its the same hamster wheel at level 90.

Felshades

09-02-2011, 06:12 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mages have the same issue in DoV because their Crit and CB/Potency is very low when they get there since no one does SF content.</blockquote>Wait, so we should have to go grind instances for full legendary and/or raid gear before stepping foot into velious?Share please. I want what you're on. And as a side note: I did finish all the quests in SF.

Felshades

09-02-2011, 06:14 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stellannis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Deago wrote:</cite><blockquote>They need to nerf the lv 10 orcs that swim off the islands in frostfang sea because that is about the easiest bot/afk place at lv 10.I see folks botting there all the time.</blockquote>Ooooo yea i've done that once...I'm not being rhetorical, but in a "private" instance, and not an open dungeon, why does everyone care what anyone else is doing? It doesn't make ::MY:: play less fun bc someone else gets 90/300 10x quicker than me. I am obviously missing the point and i'm genuinely asking for an explanation.I've drug numerous alts thru chelsith but i've never grinded the blobs. How boring. But if someone else wants to stand there for hours, why should I care?</blockquote>Its a general rule and if you allow it to happen then it opens avenues in other more damaging ways. Such as AFK tradeskill botting. But why should you care if you tradeskill Bot in an instance. Such as Using macros to BOT multiple toons in heroic dungeons But why should you care if someone uses a third party program to BOT heroic instances. Such as that dude in wow who use to bot a whole raid.But why should you care if someone uses a third party program to BOT an entire raid instance.What about those Auto loot programs that accompany said afk botters. But why should you care if that person farms plat afk.What if the person doing this decides after he gets to 90 and actually plays this toon a lil bit he doesnt like this character and doesnt need this plat and sell s his plat and toon.But why should you care.How about you just play the dang game the way its meant to be played. Find some low level newbies group up and kill stuff. Its the same hamster wheel at level 90.</blockquote>Macros aren't botting.

Elskidor

09-02-2011, 08:20 PM

<cite>Deago wrote:</cite><blockquote>They need to nerf the lv 10 orcs that swim off the islands in frostfang sea because that is about the easiest bot/afk place at lv 10.I see folks botting there all the time.</blockquote>They don't need to nerf squat. Just needa figure out how to stop botting from being possible in the first place. There was only one thing wrong with Chelsith, and that was people could afk exploit it. I don't report people, but as a rule I am going to be doing it everytime I see some fool doing this to mobs or harvesting. Why should everyone else get kicked in the face for something some other player gets away with?

Xianthia

09-03-2011, 08:57 AM

Sometimes it seems (and this only my observation) that some of the playerbase spends more time worrying about what others do/and how they play instead of playing their own game.As to the term used on an earlier post "play the game the way its meant to be played", doesn't the player actually determine how the game is meant to be played? In case it's not obvious, of course that doesn't include exploits or anything underhanded or not allowed within the rules of the game.I don't understand this change. Why was it wrong for people to want to sit and chat and kill mobs over and over again? it may be boring to some, but not to others, so who were they hurting/bothering?

Gungo

09-03-2011, 10:24 AM

<cite>Xianthia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes it seems (and this only my observation) that some of the playerbase spends more time worrying about what others do/and how they play instead of playing their own game.As to the term used on an earlier post "play the game the way its meant to be played", doesn't the player actually determine how the game is meant to be played? In case it's not obvious, of course that doesn't include exploits or anything underhanded or not allowed within the rules of the game.I don't understand this change. Why was it wrong for people to want to sit and chat and kill mobs over and over again? it may be boring to some, but not to others, so who were they hurting/bothering?</blockquote>It was changed because its against the rules of the game to have unattended gameplay.To the person above in game macros are legit, third party macro programs ARE against the rules and IS CONSIDERED BOTTING.

Xianthia

09-03-2011, 11:00 AM

Not sure what you mean by unattended play (meaning that doesn't apply to the whole playerbase), of course there are people that afk xp (whether in Chelsith or anywhere else), and those specific people should of course get some sort of consequence, the ones that used Chelsith and any other zone and aren't/weren't AFK should not be.

MurFalad

09-03-2011, 11:54 AM

Some people here need to take a breath, step back and ask themselves exactly why they are standing on a bridge for 4 hours shooting blobs. Why should anyone get rewarded for such a trivially easy activity? If people need a way to level while doing essentially nothing then why not just give out free level 90's and be done with it.Try selling that sort of "gameplay" to someone new to the genre and they'll look at you like your insane, basically because its dull, boring and tedious.No matter what devs do though people will find a way to powerlevel despite how boring it feels, but if they at least remove as much as possible from the game for power levelling (the current mentoring system mainly promotes power levelling too, everywhere I go there is a 90 mentored down with someone on /follow, why is anyone getting rewarded for that?) and steer players towards actually playing the game perhaps more people will actually discover "fun" at all levels, and not just raiding, or at least they have to take part in something.I think that's the formulae for a game with some real gameplay rather then some sort of quasi job.Still, I can't talk, just been powerlevelling myself in Cazic Thule, Obelisk of lost souls etc, although with the new low level gear I did it just fine without the need for either mentoring down or a level 90 to help me, there are a lot of solo dungeons out there now.

MurFalad

09-03-2011, 11:58 AM

<cite>Xianthia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not sure what you mean by unattended play (meaning that doesn't apply to the whole playerbase), of course there are people that afk xp (whether in Chelsith or anywhere else), and those specific people should of course get some sort of consequence, the ones that used Chelsith and any other zone and aren't/weren't AFK should not be. </blockquote>I have wondered myself about leaving my Illusionist logged in and see how much Xp the pet can give me while I'm out of the house.... With mentoring it definitely will work, and I'm not sure if its even against anything in the EULA.But for Chelsith people generally had to actively stand there shooting blobs every 20s or so over and over, pretty boring, but it gave heaps of XP for a very trivial activity. It makes sense why they are shutting it down if people are getting rewarded for doing something that has no risk (and is boring), but with so many other elements of the game like mentoring that trivialise things it doesn't really sound consistent.

Trensharo

09-03-2011, 01:26 PM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mages have the same issue in DoV because their Crit and CB/Potency is very low when they get there since no one does SF content.</blockquote>Wait, so we should have to go grind instances for full legendary and/or raid gear before stepping foot into velious?Share please. I want what you're on. And as a side note: I did finish all the quests in SF.</blockquote>Please quote peeps in context. This was fixed with the low level gear revamps. It will avoid making yourself look dumb.Also, being able to grind on MOBs that instantly respawn in a non-contested instance is not right. I don't even know why people are trying to defend it.I got about 250 AAs yesterday alone so trust me the Chelsith getting nerfed won't break the game for you. It just means you have to move more than 2 feet to get decent XP. The horror...

Felshades

09-03-2011, 07:52 PM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mages have the same issue in DoV because their Crit and CB/Potency is very low when they get there since no one does SF content.</blockquote>Wait, so we should have to go grind instances for full legendary and/or raid gear before stepping foot into velious?Share please. I want what you're on. And as a side note: I did finish all the quests in SF.</blockquote>Please quote peeps in context. This was fixed with the low level gear revamps. It will avoid making yourself look dumb.Also, being able to grind on MOBs that instantly respawn in a non-contested instance is not right. I don't even know why people are trying to defend it.I got about 250 AAs yesterday alone so trust me the Chelsith getting nerfed won't break the game for you. It just means you have to move more than 2 feet to get decent XP. The horror...</blockquote>I never gave a hoot about the chelsith thing. I asked questions based on what others mentioned.The gear changes never affected me, as I've been 90 for quite some time now. I did the SF stuff when the SF stuff was garbage.Edit: you say mages have lower stats becuase people don't do SF. Bothmy mages fully cleared SF questlines before heading to DoV. To get their stats higher I need to grind out instance gear before going into velious. Hence my comment.

Kincaid

09-04-2011, 12:21 AM

Regarding the original post and subject of this thread, its only the blobs that dont give xp, everything else does.Chelsith still gives a shedload of xp. Ran a friend through there last night, and despite already been to Chelsith prior to this weekend, she got a shedload of AA from the trash. Too her to Nizara too. Aiming to completely clear Shard Of Fear too when we want to just for the xp from the trash. May run her through all of the Befallen or Loping Plains TSO zones as well.I'm not limited to running Chelsith when theres a fair bit of content around. A fair bit of its scalable If the dungeons are packed, pick a tier you feel comfortable with going to with your grp size and rip the available instances apart solo, duo, or full grp.

Kincaid

09-04-2011, 12:32 AM

<cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mages have the same issue in DoV because their Crit and CB/Potency is very low when they get there since no one does SF content.</blockquote>Wait, so we should have to go grind instances for full legendary and/or raid gear before stepping foot into velious?Share please. I want what you're on. And as a side note: I did finish all the quests in SF.</blockquote>A lot of acceptable starter gear drops from the Otter Gnoll quests for crit chance, and CB/Potency stats. Can also farm PQ's for the armour drops. That will get you going into places like Ascent, Shadow Corridors, and Forgotton PoolsLike a lot of other level 90's I worked hard to get my toon through that transition, and everyone who brought the expansion and got a level 90 working on Velious content or surpassed it and into Drundar and beyond, has done a hell of lot to progress their toon through to Velious instances and raiding. Its not an overnight process, but rather something you got to work towards.

Kincaid

09-04-2011, 12:45 AM

Final post, I should have gone to sleep 5 hours ago.The game is all about the progression of your character. Its not a instant thing, but something that requires you to put some time in to move forward. Its great that new players (or returning as is the case for two players in my guild) can take 2-4 weeks to get to 90, and then take a little longer to get some decent gear and AA to go to the next step of the progression. It is doable to get into Velious, just got to put the time in to get there by moving forward the progression of your character.

Felshades

09-04-2011, 02:37 AM

<cite>Fibonacci@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nadirah@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Mages have the same issue in DoV because their Crit and CB/Potency is very low when they get there since no one does SF content.</blockquote>Wait, so we should have to go grind instances for full legendary and/or raid gear before stepping foot into velious?Share please. I want what you're on. And as a side note: I did finish all the quests in SF.</blockquote>A lot of acceptable starter gear drops from the Otter Gnoll quests for crit chance, and CB/Potency stats. Can also farm PQ's for the armour drops. That will get you going into places like Ascent, Shadow Corridors, and Forgotton PoolsLike a lot of other level 90's I worked hard to get my toon through that transition, and everyone who brought the expansion and got a level 90 working on Velious content or surpassed it and into Drundar and beyond, has done a hell of lot to progress their toon through to Velious instances and raiding. Its not an overnight process, but rather something you got to work towards.</blockquote>I was not referring to dungeons. I was referring to having difficulty on both mages in SF gear at 86 doing the Velious quests. My illusionist, at 86, due to slider setting, HAD COMPLETED ALL OF SENTINELS FATE OVERLAND QUESTS before stepping foot onto velious. She was getting killed CONSTANTLY. Control immune mobs(this has since been fixed) were part of the annoyance.There is no way you are seriously telling me that I should do all of SF's quests, then gear up doing SF dungeons(that no one does anymore outside ER) before doing quests that give gear and are designed around a level 86. PQ gear? I can't wear that till 90.Not everyone that goes into Velious is level 90. My mystic could do it right from the get go and ignore most of stonebrunt. My illusionist did ALL of stonebrunt(you can check her achievements if you want; Meridia on Crushbone) and still did not have the gear to do the Othmir quests without dying 50 times because of a broken root, or getting melee'd more than once in a row because I'd get crit for 3/4 of my hp in one hit.All of my characters did the progression for gear. My dirge here also kinda had a hell of a time with the early Othmir quests. My damage is less than that of rogues and preds, half of it is resisted easy, and chain or no chain, I was still getting hit HARD. I ended up going back to SF to get to 90. Except I didn't make it to 90. 90 I attained in an ascent group with guildies. In a full set of Othmir and gnoll gear. That I had to wait till about 88 to get.

deadcrickets2

09-04-2011, 12:02 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xianthia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes it seems (and this only my observation) that some of the playerbase spends more time worrying about what others do/and how they play instead of playing their own game.As to the term used on an earlier post "play the game the way its meant to be played", doesn't the player actually determine how the game is meant to be played? In case it's not obvious, of course that doesn't include exploits or anything underhanded or not allowed within the rules of the game.I don't understand this change. Why was it wrong for people to want to sit and chat and kill mobs over and over again? it may be boring to some, but not to others, so who were they hurting/bothering?</blockquote>It was changed because its against the rules of the game to have unattended gameplay.To the person above in game macros are legit, third party macro programs ARE against the rules and IS CONSIDERED BOTTING.</blockquote>To be exact the rules say unattended XP gain is against the rules. You can bot as long as you are sitting there watching it bot. Which fairly much defeats the purpose.

LygerT

09-04-2011, 02:01 PM

the first MMO i played before i came to EQ2 was Asheron's Call, the whole game changed focused around botting creating levels in game that would be unattainable unless you were running a bot 24/7. the players went as far as having automated responses and controlling other characters via proxy so that they appeared to be attended.i had one of the highest level characters played, so of course it was sad to see the accomplishment surpassed by people who were botting to gain levels. there was a huge war within the playerbase between macroer's and the "players", as the bots were destroying the game in our view.as far as i know though, there isn't any third party programs which have anything more than very limited control of your character in EQ2, basically about as deep as your third party UIs can manage with ingame macros which have no control over movement or constant inputs like tabbing to a target and realizing you are on a target, to then attack, realizing when the mob is dead, moving between locations. the programs people were creating were actually fairly impressive and killing mobs that some attended players couldn't manage because the programs also monitored the health of the character and could react within a split second of what needed to be done.