This is why capping MA is stupid~

[Gaige]

<p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/mvEHR.jpg" width="953" height="68" /></p><p>You are nerfing me by a minimum of 150% MA in GU61 and that is with my current gear and group/raid setup.  I've actually broken 675% MA in raids.</p><p>How is it my fault that you guys made these mechanic changes without foresight (like always) and are now nerfing me due to the fact that your servers can't handle uncapped MA?</p><p>This is what makes me absolutely hate this game.  The teams inability to consider the future when making fundamental game changes.</p><p>I've basically wasted 6 months of DoV gearing and specc'ing for something that is about to be useless.  Thanks for that~</p>

[Cocytus]

<p>Yeah guys, the mechanics changes are stupid but now that I totally am on top of them and love my dps, DON'T CHANGE THEM! Cater to ME, and screw absolutely everybody else! Who cares if they're satisfied with the game? This is about me.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>They are nerfing Zerkers... again, with Reforging I will easily reach the cap on MA... and our buff will once again be worthless.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Has nothing to do with catering to me.</p><p>What is to say that once they uncap all this other stuff it doesn't also get out of hand?</p><p>Nothing.  SOE never thinks that far ahead.  While this GU may be nerfing me the next one may be nerfing mages or *gasp* you.</p><p>Nerfing MA is stupid, they should've never uncapped it if this is their solution to their servers being unable to handle the mechanics they implement.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Has nothing to do with catering to me.</p><p>What is to say that once they uncap all this other stuff it doesn't also get out of hand?</p><p>Nothing.  SOE never thinks that far ahead.  While this GU may be nerfing me the next one may be nerfing mages or *gasp* you.</p><p>Nerfing MA is stupid, they should've never uncapped it if this is their solution to their servers being unable to handle the mechanics they implement.</p></blockquote><p>Part of the problem is MA Adornments and the whole adornment system in general.</p><p>They should of focused more on "proc effects".</p><p>Also giving scouts 700 MA and tanks 300, instead of having gear that raised there Auto-attack modifier, which is what I would of done, added gear for tanks/scouts that added like 10% MA and Auto-attack Modifier.</p>

[Vinyard]

<p>Leave it as it is. Don't listen to Gaige.</p><p>Uncapping MA is the way to go, and will better the game in the long run!</p>

[Cocytus]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Has nothing to do with catering to me.</p><p>What is to say that once they uncap all this other stuff it doesn't also get out of hand?</p><p>Nothing.  SOE never thinks that far ahead.  While this GU may be nerfing me the next one may be nerfing mages or *gasp* you.</p><p>Nerfing MA is stupid, they should've never uncapped it if this is their solution to their servers being unable to handle the mechanics they implement.</p></blockquote><p>You know, I actually agree with you that they should have never uncapped it, lol.</p><p>Edit to elaborate - I agree with you that uncapping it initially was very dumb. However, I disagree with you on the solution. I would be 100% A-OK with capping it all over again - providing they bring stats under control again. Simultaneously, I think that itemizing blue stats in the first place was a big mistake, too. Procs and green stats it shoulda stayed, imo, perhaps with some kind of mechanic that would make players not hold onto level 30 gear with procs for their superduperuberpooperscooper raid dps. Crit mit'd do that just fine, I think, much as I hate artificial stats.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>Just change MA to mimic Weapon Damage Bonus so that it increases the size of the hits rather than number of hits.  You'll actually reduce the load on the servers and you won't have to nerf anyone.</p>

[Ragefighter]

<p>How about just making more things give + Auto Attack Multiplier.  Not really sure as to what that does exactly or how much I have as a base but as an inquisitor I have the cleric aa in the sta tree that gives +0.320 and the endline shadow aa that buffs, among others, miltiplier by +0.150.</p><p>again I am not sure if other classes get much of this stat just know it probably can help if for example there was an adornment for it.  that way you don't need a class to do like 6 multiattacks and a flurry of 5 attacks to do the same dps.  IE it has been said before make each hit harder instead of hitting for more hits.</p><p>(figures are made up and do not reflect any ingame dmg)</p><p>If your attacking for an average of 5000 but on nearly every attack you hit it 7 times.  thats 35k</p><p>if you make it normally hit for much higher numbers but hit the mob less times you can do the same dmg with less log entery.</p><p>I really do not know what to say, everyone hates change it is just human nature people are scared they will become useless.</p><p>Maybe make it double attack and make flurry more common?  so you will flurry alot but not multi attack alot (while boosting the raw damage of your melee).</p><p>Whatever you end up changing I just hope it gives us some choices, not just put every adornment in one stat than switch to every adornment in a diff stat.  make everything more usful but not require you to obtain 700%. </p><p>not sure if I am being clear ambian is kickin in =p</p>

[slippery]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just change MA to mimic Weapon Damage Bonus so that it increases the size of the hits rather than number of hits.  You'll actually reduce the load on the servers and you won't have to nerf anyone.</p></blockquote><p>This.</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>it really does just feel unfair...</p><p>like someones really just trying to be mean, plain and simple.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>I mean the lack of foresight is unbelievable to me.</p><p>These are my current solo stats, and I'm still lacking the HM bp from Statue:</p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/TtXCA.jpg" width="953" height="42" /></p><p>As you can see I'm already over 500% MA solo.  This is from DoV launch HM raid gear almost completely.  I'm using one piece from EM Drunder atm.</p><p>We're less than six months into the expansion, all the servers are upgraded (or will be shortly) and you're already changing the mechanics of MA because you say the servers can't handle it.  If that is true why didn't you upgrade them better while you had budgets approved for doing so?</p><p>If its for other reasons then I'm even more afraid about these additional mechanics changes.  If you guys don't have the foresight to see where players are going to be in DoV launch gear within 6 months of an expansion launch why should we be reassured that these NEW mechanics changes which include things like spell auto attack and uncapping even more stats have been well thought out at all?  How do I know we won't be here in November scaling things back, making the new caps silly high (like going from 300 dps mod to 900 dps mod to increase auto attack % because you guys have no clue how allowing auto attack to hit harder will actually affect the game).</p><p>Please explain to us why you make these changes with little to no thought to future growth?  Not even future growth, you literally didn't realize that players would break 500MA solo in DoV launch gear.  What did you think was going to happen, you guys made the gear right?</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I mean the lack of foresight is unbelievable to me.</p><p>These are my current solo stats, and I'm still lacking the HM bp from Statue:</p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/TtXCA.jpg" width="953" height="42" /></p><p>As you can see I'm already over 500% MA solo.  This is from DoV launch HM raid gear almost completely.  I'm using one piece from EM Drunder atm.</p><p>We're less than six months into the expansion, all the servers are upgraded (or will be shortly) and you're already changing the mechanics of MA because you say the servers can't handle it.  If that is true why didn't you upgrade them better while you had budgets approved for doing so?</p><p>If its for other reasons then I'm even more afraid about these additional mechanics changes.  If you guys don't have the foresight to see where players are going to be in DoV launch gear within 6 months of an expansion launch why should we be reassured that these NEW mechanics changes which include things like spell auto attack and uncapping even more stats have been well thought out at all?  How do I know we won't be here in November scaling things back, making the new caps silly high (like going from 300 dps mod to 900 dps mod to increase auto attack % because you guys have no clue how allowing auto attack to hit harder will actually affect the game).</p><p>Please explain to us why you make these changes with little to no thought to future growth?  Not even future growth, you literally didn't realize that players would break 500MA solo in DoV launch gear.  What did you think was going to happen, you guys made the gear right?</p></blockquote><p>well they shouldn't of put MA on Scout or Fighter gear, they should of added 0.2% Autoattack Modifier or replaced all the old riposte chance with Autoattack Modifier.</p><p>Example:Earring of the GOODITEMIZATION</p><p>+120 Sta +120 Agility</p><p>7% Critical Bonus</p><p>7% Potency</p><p>+0.02 Autoattack Modifier</p><p>3% Multi-Attack Chance</p>

[TigerLotus]

<p>I think that all kind's of caps, dimishing returns and artificial limits are STUPID <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Itemization should be designed in a way, that there is no need for stupid caps.</p><p>I don't understand why they reduced the amount of statistics from the old systemand have to limit the new ones, because all items have the same attributes and thevalues raise too high.</p><p>It would be much more interesting if we had more and more interesting stats on items again,and in exchange less higher values and no caps. It should be fun again to combine proccs andstats in a sensefull way - depending on personal play-style - and not to focus on simply pushinga few boring stats to their limits <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p><p>What they have been doing in EQ2 especially since DoV: Taking away the complexity in skilling andaa-Setup (playstyle variation) that were one of the special features of this game in camparision withWoW, Rift, ... *whine*</p>

[Talathion]

<p>well to be honest, weapons should have over 200% Attack speed, 12 second delay should go down to 3 seconds.</p><p>200% DPS should be cap, 1% DPS should be 1% extra damage.</p><p>MA should have no Cap, but should be harder to get for scouts/fighters/healers/mages.</p><p>And now the server can't handle it.</p>

[Bruener]

<p>Uncapping MA was a dumb idea to start with and I never understood why that was uncapped instead of uncapping DPS mod.  Makes way more sense for server lag.</p><p>Gaige, as to your over-abundance of MA that is probably why they are introducing reforging.  So you get to keep your MA where you want and slide the "points" into other blue stat areas to still get gains.  Reforging was the simple way out of re-itemizing post gu-61 changes.</p><p>I am not a big fan of reforging but it works for this.  Now if they can actually make it fair for all classes and not just pure classes.  Hybrids will still be very limited in their stat choices.</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Uncapping MA was a dumb idea to start with and I never understood why that was uncapped instead of uncapping DPS mod.  Makes way more sense for server lag.</p><p>Gaige, as to your over-abundance of MA that is probably why they are introducing reforging.  So you get to keep your MA where you want and slide the "points" into other blue stat areas to still get gains.  Reforging was the simple way out of re-itemizing post gu-61 changes.</p><p>I am not a big fan of reforging but it works for this.  Now if they can actually make it fair for all classes and not just pure classes.  Hybrids will still be very limited in their stat choices.</p></blockquote><p>Which might make this more bearable if they were introducing reforging at the same time, but another 3 or so months away. So nerf us now and make us wait for three months to so we can decide how we want it?</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Uncapping MA was a dumb idea to start with and I never understood why that was uncapped instead of uncapping DPS mod.  Makes way more sense for server lag.</p><p>Gaige, as to your over-abundance of MA that is probably why they are introducing reforging.  So you get to keep your MA where you want and slide the "points" into other blue stat areas to still get gains.  Reforging was the simple way out of re-itemizing post gu-61 changes.</p><p>I am not a big fan of reforging but it works for this.  Now if they can actually make it fair for all classes and not just pure classes.  Hybrids will still be very limited in their stat choices.</p></blockquote><p>Which might make this more bearable if they were introducing reforging at the same time, but another 3 or so months away. So nerf us now and make us wait for three months to so we can decide how we want it?</p></blockquote><p>There is of course the option instead of the Assassin in the group getting every single buff now those buffs can be spread out to classes that have less MA.</p><p>Basically it reverts things back some to like how it was in TSO.  Some classes were hitting cap on MA a lot easier than others, so IA and other MA buffs went to classes that were not given as much.</p><p>Also, its not that the MA over 500 does absolutely nothing either....it does still provide some % of additional attack chance...its just very minimal.</p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>TigerLotus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think that all kind's of caps, dimishing returns and artificial limits are STUPID <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Itemization should be designed in a way, that there is no need for stupid caps.</p></blockquote><p>If all the items that would ever exist could be designed at once, that would work, but with the open-ended nature of an MMO, that simply isn't possible. With new content will come better items because players want continual progression.</p><p>Adding more stats doesn't necessarily solve much, and runs the risk of over-complicating the game. Further, there is a considerable challenge involved in keeping all the stats relevent - player will quickly figure out which stats are important and which can be ignored.</p>

[Silzin]

<p >I have an idea for improving the performance and changing MA so its not capped. But it would be a long and problematic change for just about every tank and healing class.<span>  </span>Instead of malty attach adding a hit, it just adds a multiplier to the base damage. This in the end “Should” give the same amount of hits for any given MA %.<span>  </span>So if there was a 675% MA you would have a multiplier of 6x with a 75% change of 7x. (or its 7x with change of 8x… what ever)<span>  </span>This should give you the same over all damage per auto attach swing, but compress down the number of hits per attach swing.<span>  </span>This should dramatically increase server performance, but would play havoc with hit avoidance and reactive heals.<span>  </span>I can think of a way of making the heal part work, just add a coded # for how many of heal procs that hit will give.<span>  </span>But getting hit avoidance working with this would be very hard for all tanks.<span>  </span></p> <p >Flurry would have to add into this calculation at the same time or it would become so over powers no one would be able to stand it.<span>  </span></p> <p >Again the code changing and problems a change like this would take to keep things in balance would probably be immense.<span>  </span></p>

[jjlo69]

<p> i agree with gaige here. his ma at 675% instead of 1 full extra attack and a 75% chance it gonna be roughly 25% to one extra attack that is a chunk of auto attack dps loss. maybe hold off on the caps until reforging imho would be the best option for this.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Uncle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>maybe hold off on the caps until reforging imho would be the best option for this.</p></blockquote><p>Long experience from Nagafen pvp bug-fix cycles in SF and DoV demonstrates SOE has no issues with making players wait months for fixes to be patched in.  We are still waiting for DoV pvp weapons and accessories that should have been patched in 6months ago.</p><p>Look at it this way: after we play 3 months with the nerf in place, item reforging (if it works) might actually make us weep with joy!</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is of course the option instead of the Assassin in the group getting every single buff now those buffs can be spread out to classes that have less MA.</p><p>Basically it reverts things back some to like how it was in TSO.  Some classes were hitting cap on MA a lot easier than others, so IA and other MA buffs went to classes that were not given as much.</p><p>Also, its not that the MA over 500 does absolutely nothing either....it does still provide some % of additional attack chance...its just very minimal.</p></blockquote><p>You don't have to stack buffs to get that 500 mark though. In EM gear with 4.0 sec weapons I'm sitting at the 400 mark without group or short term buffs (like the 30% MA proc) and I'm using a good number of Crit Mit Adorns. Move into more HM gear and I'll be able to switch out the CM Adorns and get a lot closer to that 500 Mark if not blow past it.</p>

[jjlo69]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Uncle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>maybe hold off on the caps until reforging imho would be the best option for this.</p></blockquote><p>Long experience from Nagafen pvp bug-fix cycles in SF and DoV demonstrates SOE has no issues with making players wait months for fixes to be patched in.  We are still waiting for DoV pvp weapons and accessories that should have been patched in 6months ago.</p><p>Look at it this way: after we play 3 months with the nerf in place, item reforging (if it works) might actually make us weep with joy!</p></blockquote><p>you talking apples and orages here since pvp itemization has nothing to do with a MA machanic that has been in the game since DOV launched and even with reforging in place depending on gear itemization pvp or pve the curve from 500 - 1000k for extra hit may not even be obtainable but time will tell with that one.  </p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Uncle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>you talking apples and orages here since pvp itemization has nothing to do with a MA machanic that has been in the game since DOV launched</p></blockquote><p>In this case it doesn't matter if it's apples or oranges.  I brought up pvp itemization as one of the more recent examples of how SOE is willing to make players wait months for relief from broken or incomplete aspects of gameplay. </p><p>I could also point out we had to wait for months for something fundamental like resists mechanic that has been in the game for ages to be repaired, but would example that be a peach or a plum?</p><p>My "low-hanging fruit" prediction based on SOE past performance will be that the MA nerf will stay and it will take months plus new itemization from the upcoming expansion to repair.  It is enough to drive players bananas if they took it all too seriously, orange you glad it's just a game?</p><p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Geothe]

<p>The MA change definitely should not go forward until reforging is in.As it is, with your apathetic itemization, and zero options for alternate gear for each slot, scouts are going to be getting a ton of wasted stat points with their higher end gear that will essentially net them no gain, and be unable to swap those stats into something actually useful.Meanwhile, mages will continue to make solid DPS increases with all of their stat improvements.Way to not actually think things though, YET AGAIN!</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The MA change definitely should not go forward until reforging is in.As it is, with your apathetic itemization, and zero options for alternate gear for each slot, scouts are going to be getting a ton of wasted stat points with their higher end gear that will essentially net them no gain, and be unable to swap those stats into something actually useful.Meanwhile, mages will continue to make solid DPS increases with all of their stat improvements.Way to not actually think things though, YET AGAIN!</p></blockquote><p>If rosters are formed in response to the current balance, will the caster gains balance out melee losses?</p><p>How likely will progression be gated after this hits Live?</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is of course the option instead of the Assassin in the group getting every single buff now those buffs can be spread out to classes that have less MA.</p><p>Basically it reverts things back some to like how it was in TSO.  Some classes were hitting cap on MA a lot easier than others, so IA and other MA buffs went to classes that were not given as much.</p><p>Also, its not that the MA over 500 does absolutely nothing either....it does still provide some % of additional attack chance...its just very minimal.</p></blockquote><p>So I get nerfed, I also get less buffs and this should be okay because reforging comes out in 3 months which no one at all even knows how it works yet but its obviously the fix to this issue.</p><p>Um, sure?</p><p>As was mentioned 500MA is what I'm reaching SOLO in launch zone DoV HM gear.  Not even stuff from HM Drunder.  Its not like I have a choice in gear either.  In SOE's infinite wisdom they gave us one piece of HM gear per slot this year.  No options at all.  The only change I can make with GU61 is to use 6.0 weapons because MA (for me) will be completely useless.</p><p>This is a huge nerf to me in a patch which offers me almost nothing in return.  So dumb <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Also lol @ MA over 500 provides something, um right.  I'm sure .002% multiattack will be useful.</p>

[Ragefighter]

<p><cite>Neskonlith wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Uncle@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>you talking apples and orages here since pvp itemization has nothing to do with a MA machanic that has been in the game since DOV launched</p></blockquote><p>In this case it doesn't matter if it's apples or oranges.  I brought up pvp itemization as one of the more recent examples of how SOE is willing to make players wait months for relief from broken or incomplete aspects of gameplay. </p><p>I could also point out we had to wait for months for something fundamental like resists mechanic that has been in the game for ages to be repaired, <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><strong>but would example that be a peach or a plum?</strong></span></p><p>My "low-hanging fruit" prediction based on SOE past performance will be that the MA nerf will stay and it will take months plus new itemization from the upcoming expansion to repair.  It is enough to drive players bananas if they took it all too seriously, orange you glad it's just a game?</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>That would be more of an apricot IMO.</p>

[Karagon]

<p>MA just shouldn't be increasing so fast at start. The fact you can already reach it's soft cap atm is really dumb. And there shouldn't be such a things like soft caps imho.</p><p>It should increase by some function from zero, not from 500%. Same thing to all other stats.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>This entire GU was secretly made to nerf gaigex.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is of course the option instead of the Assassin in the group getting every single buff now those buffs can be spread out to classes that have less MA.</p><p>Basically it reverts things back some to like how it was in TSO.  Some classes were hitting cap on MA a lot easier than others, so IA and other MA buffs went to classes that were not given as much.</p><p>Also, its not that the MA over 500 does absolutely nothing either....it does still provide some % of additional attack chance...its just very minimal.</p></blockquote><p>So I get nerfed, I also get less buffs and this should be okay because reforging comes out in 3 months which no one at all even knows how it works yet but its obviously the fix to this issue.</p><p>Um, sure?</p><p>As was mentioned 500MA is what I'm reaching SOLO in launch zone DoV HM gear.  Not even stuff from HM Drunder.  Its not like I have a choice in gear either.  In SOE's infinite wisdom they gave us one piece of HM gear per slot this year.  No options at all.  The only change I can make with GU61 is to use 6.0 weapons because MA (for me) will be completely useless.</p><p>This is a huge nerf to me in a patch which offers me almost nothing in return.  So dumb <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Also lol @ MA over 500 provides something, um right.  I'm sure .002% multiattack will be useful.</p></blockquote><p>I think the point they were trying to make with that change is that it will rectify itself... later when you have about 1k MA.</p><p>KoS era combat revamp anyone?</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Karagon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>MA just shouldn't be increasing so fast at start. The fact you can already reach it's soft cap atm is really dumb. And there shouldn't be such a things like soft caps imho.</p><p>It should increase by some function from zero, not from 500%. Same thing to all other stats.</p></blockquote><p>Ive been saying this for a while.</p><p>Instead of X% it should have been X rating, where Y of that rating gives 1%.</p><p>Item gives 152 critical strike rating. 121 rating = 1 percent critical strike.</p><p>Something like that. That way numbers go up and percentages don't at a stupid alarming rate, and they've got room to breathe in itemization.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Please don't post in my thread if you don't grasp the subject.</p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium;"><div><p><cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think the point they were trying to make with that change is that it will rectify itself... later when you have about 1k MA.</p></blockquote><p>I mean this is just silly to even say~</p></div></span></p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please don't post in my thread if you don't grasp the subject.</p><div><p><cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think the point they were trying to make with that change is that it will rectify itself... later when you have about 1k MA.</p></blockquote><p>I mean this is just silly to even say~</p></div></blockquote><p>Yeah.. especially with reforging, as soon as I get 500% MA I'm going to be stacking Flurry instead, because MA will be worthless, then Autoattack Modifier... then whatever else made up stat they're is.</p>

[On3iron]

<p>I agree, the current changes to MA are thoughtless at best. Once again SOE shows how good they are at NOT planning ahead.</p>

[Lohkei]

<p>With high enough Flurry, won't that cause the same problem in the long run as SOE claims MA is doing?</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Lohkei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With high enough Flurry, won't that cause the same problem in the long run as SOE claims MA is doing?</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but they haven't thought that far ahead yet. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Lohkei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With high enough Flurry, won't that cause the same problem in the long run as SOE claims MA is doing?</p></blockquote><p>I would think so but where is the comment from the Dev saying this is the reason for MA "capping"? As far as I can tell the Dev's put in the caps and then have not commented on them at all since the tiers were published. More curious than anything as I can see that it would be a reason, I just haven't seen any official word that it is.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Well, tbh, the devs aren't even in agreement with themselves over most of these changes.  IMO its another case of people doing what their told by someone who wasn't in the position to make these decisions a year ago.</p><p>EQ2 has so many changes in its team that this constantly happens, I guess I should be used to it by now.</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lohkei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With high enough Flurry, won't that cause the same problem in the long run as SOE claims MA is doing?</p></blockquote><p>I would think so but where is the comment from the Dev saying this is the reason for MA "capping"? As far as I can tell the Dev's put in the caps and then have not commented on them at all since the tiers were published. More curious than anything as I can see that it would be a reason, I just haven't seen any official word that it is.</p></blockquote><p>There isn't a single word from Xelgad./head in sand all the way.</p>

[Sleap]

<p>So if they are nerfing melee classes into oblivion, whats going to happen to casters?</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lohkei wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>With high enough Flurry, won't that cause the same problem in the long run as SOE claims MA is doing?</p></blockquote><p>I would think so but where is the comment from the Dev saying this is the reason for MA "capping"? As far as I can tell the Dev's put in the caps and then have not commented on them at all since the tiers were published. More curious than anything as I can see that it would be a reason, I just haven't seen any official word that it is.</p></blockquote><p>There isn't a single word from Xelgad./head in sand all the way.</p></blockquote><p>I don't think that's actually the case. I'm hoping this silence denotes that they are working through options not discounting the feedback. Guess we'll just have to see though.</p>

[Banwar]

<p>lol, before I quit he was campaining for nerfs against other classes. I come back and he's the one getting nerfed. Feels good man.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Banwar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol, before I quit he was campaining for nerfs against other classes. I come back and he's the one getting nerfed. Feels good man.</p></blockquote><p>LOL CUZ we were so overpowered we killed all the content already and all of us are ready to kill Zek!</p><p>((btw, that was sarcasm))</p>

[Banwar]

<p>Not sure what that has to do with what I said but thanks for the input.</p>

[NardacMM]

<p>Doesn't affect me at all, since I never approach 500%, but I agree with Gaige on this one.  Nerfing stats mid-expansion is pretty poor customer relations.  People put actual real life time and effort into specc'ing out a certain way. </p><p>IF MA is affecting server performance, then don't add in spell multi-attack until the next expansion.  Obviously the problem is all the additional spell attacks.  When the next expansion comes out, you can do whatever you want since everybody will be replacing every slot anyway.</p><p>I also don't get why people are suggesting that MA should add damage instead of extra attacks.  Is their goal to have every CA exceed 6 figures?   Highest melee hit is already 79,000,000+... Is our goal to just reach 9 figures or get into the billions?</p><p>Game's getting out of control..</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Banwar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure what that has to do with what I said but thanks for the input.</p></blockquote><p>Let me spell it out for you since you don't understand.</p><p>People.  Can't.  Kill.  Current.  Content.</p><p>This.  Nerfed.  Raidwide.  DPS.  Alot.</p><p>And if the server can't handle current Autoattack, Why the F. Are they adding Spell Autoattack?</p>

[Banwar]

<p>And I still don't undersatnd why you quoted ME because what I said has nothing to do with YOU. Get it now?</p>

[Buzzing]

<p>Not sure why this is never really brought up... But I will toss it out there anyway.</p><p>Item Reforging will only increase the hate gap between tanks and dps. Consider it a numbers game. An Assassin decides to reforge because they can hit the cap in MA and should be dumping more into DPS mod, Agi, Flurry or whatever they decide they need to do. They have nearly 2x as much of the MA to move somewhere else then a tank will. In fact if you look at the total number of Stats that are provided on a scouts gear it outnumbers the total stats that any other type of toon will get. This means that they will be able to reach the caps and better there DPS in other areas that other classes will never be able to. I play a Pali and trust me I am no where near the cap in MA and would have to sacrafice something else in my stats in order to get there, making my dps just switch from one area to another or I will have to sack some of my survivability to even hold agro (and no I do not have much of an issue in raids hoilding agro as is if I have an okay set up)</p><p>Personaly I could care less if they cap any of the stats when they release reforging, as long as well can all have the same ability to customize the gear ie. giving us all the same possible numbers to move around</p>

[gourdon]

<p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure why this is never really brought up... But I will toss it out there anyway.</p><p>Item Reforging will only increase the hate gap between tanks and dps. Consider it a numbers game. An Assassin decides to reforge because they can hit the cap in MA and should be dumping more into DPS mod, Agi, Flurry or whatever they decide they need to do. They have nearly 2x as much of the MA to move somewhere else then a tank will. In fact if you look at the total number of Stats that are provided on a scouts gear it outnumbers the total stats that any other type of toon will get. This means that they will be able to reach the caps and better there DPS in other areas that other classes will never be able to. I play a Pali and trust me I am no where near the cap in MA and would have to sacrafice something else in my stats in order to get there, making my dps just switch from one area to another or I will have to sack some of my survivability to even hold agro (and no I do not have much of an issue in raids hoilding agro as is if I have an okay set up)</p><p>Personaly I could care less if they cap any of the stats when they release reforging, as long as well can all have the same ability to customize the gear ie. giving us all the same possible numbers to move around</p></blockquote><p>Have you considered that your higher mitigation should cost you something?</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please don't post in my thread if you don't grasp the subject.</p><div><p><cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think the point they were trying to make with that change is that it will rectify itself... later when you have about 1k MA.</p></blockquote><p>I mean this is just silly to even say~</p></div></blockquote><p>I do grasp the subject.</p><p>You're losing dps because your MA is lower than it was before the cap. My point is that they're going to uncap it at some point but with a lower return curve. Just like just about every other stat.</p><p>It will rectify itself. Later.</p><p>As for no one clearing current content... I'm almost certain DPS is less of the problem.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Coppan@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So if they are nerfing melee classes into oblivion, whats going to happen to casters?</p></blockquote><p>Same thing if SDA affects their auto attack.</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Have you considered that your higher mitigation should cost you something?</p></blockquote><p>Have you actually looked at mitigation recently?  I'm gonna say you have not.</p><p>As a Mage, I am running around 65% physical mitigation in a raid.  The cap is 75%.  Even with the level difference curve putting some pain back in, there just isn't *that* much difference anymore. No, I still can't stand "in" on a physical AE like other classes can, but it's nothing like it once was.</p><p>I can only image the difference is even smaller for chain wearing Scouts for instance.</p><p>Mitigation, honestly, isn't what tanking is about anymore.  It's all about avoidance.  And that's a shame.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p>The Tinfoil Hatter in me is whispering that the melee nerfs are a backdoor attempt to gate an unfinished PoW without resorting to another Froglok World Event scam.</p><p>Now watch SOE spoil the conspiracy fun by allowing access to a fully operational Plane of War!</p><p><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure why this is never really brought up... But I will toss it out there anyway.</p><p>Item Reforging will only increase the hate gap between tanks and dps. Consider it a numbers game. An Assassin decides to reforge because they can hit the cap in MA and should be dumping more into DPS mod, Agi, Flurry or whatever they decide they need to do. They have nearly 2x as much of the MA to move somewhere else then a tank will. In fact if you look at the total number of Stats that are provided on a scouts gear it outnumbers the total stats that any other type of toon will get. This means that they will be able to reach the caps and better there DPS in other areas that other classes will never be able to. I play a Pali and trust me I am no where near the cap in MA and would have to sacrafice something else in my stats in order to get there, making my dps just switch from one area to another or I will have to sack some of my survivability to even hold agro (and no I do not have much of an issue in raids hoilding agro as is if I have an okay set up)</p><p>Personaly I could care less if they cap any of the stats when they release reforging, as long as well can all have the same ability to customize the gear ie. giving us all the same possible numbers to move around</p></blockquote><p>Have you considered that your higher mitigation should cost you something?</p></blockquote><p>actually even if you consider Mitigation costing something, I would be stoked! I would likely give a lot of it back. However even if that is the case it will only solve the issue on the gear that has Mitigation... Jewelry would still be an issue.</p><p>I honestly am excited for the change, especially if I can trade Mitigation for more dps on my second set of gear. I am only stating this as I do hope it is all put into consideration.</p>

[Buzzing]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>gourdon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Have you considered that your higher mitigation should cost you something?</p></blockquote><p>Have you actually looked at mitigation recently?  I'm gonna say you have not.</p><p>As a Mage, I am running around 65% physical mitigation in a raid.  The cap is 75%.  Even with the level difference curve putting some pain back in, there just isn't *that* much difference anymore. No, I still can't stand "in" on a physical AE like other classes can, but it's nothing like it once was.</p><p>I can only image the difference is even smaller for chain wearing Scouts for instance.</p><p>Mitigation, honestly, isn't what tanking is about anymore.  It's all about avoidance.  And that's a shame.</p></blockquote><p>I am glad that mages are finally able to take a trauma aoe without getting smoked. However the cap is 75% and it is easy to get... that is only true for a level 90 mob. One that is level 98 on the other hand is much harder to get to. Don't get me wrong however, Mitigation is not all that important anymore (which is why several end game raid guilds have started using brawlers as a MT)</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Mitigation, honestly, isn't what tanking is about anymore.  It's all about avoidance.  And that's a shame.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, and imagine 2 of the 6 Fighters having a huge advantage in avoidance, able to self cap block actually and being immune to the strike thru mechanic that can reach up over 50%.</p>

[Ryai]

<p>Many times over the past year, the mantra of Smokejumper was no more nerfs. Now I guess its proven that is out the window.While Gaige may not be the most eloquent about making his point, he is addressing a valid issue. This stat uncapping is rushed. Its ill advised given the current state of the game. It can't really be justified until GU 62 at the earliest, at least when players will have a means to cope with the drastic changes(reforging). The change needs testing. Far more than just a couple weeks before a GU. AAs need balancing. Around current stats before you change everything. This plan is absolutely full of unintended consequences.Look before you leap for once. Please.If you have looked, please give us a real long term plan for what you are planning to do with itemization. Right now, items are powerful, but they are cookie cutter. Itemization has been downgraded to an extreme in variety compared to previous iterations of the game.TSO: T3 armor had multiple specs for hybrids, pure roles, melee healers, etc. There was a ton of variety. Procs went along with that.(For the record procs being permanently attached to items is the way to go, war runes are great, but it kills the thrill of actually seeing an item you want drop.)SF: Offensive and defensive sets of gear. Every char geared how they wanted to. Melee priests could put on tank stuff for the stats. This was FUN. Procs were fun. Stats were reasonable. Choose between different stats on gear. The most variety that existed to date.DoV: Stat inflation by an order of magnitude. 2x the values of each stat. Cookie cutter specs. Every tank uses the EXACT SAME piece of gear. Every scout uses the EXACT SAME piece of gear. Every mage uses the EXACT same piece of gear. Every priest uses the EXACT same piece of gear. Because there simply are no other options. SF gear made completely useless. An entire expansion of current level content. Obsolete day 1. PQ gear was better than raid gear.Lack of options is bad. So I really have to ask, given these ill advised changes to stats, where are you planning on going? Because all I've seen so far is a lot of smoke and mirrors and no real answers. No plans for the future past minor stat upgrades. It makes me sad, because I like EQ2. There is nothing on the market like it. But it is trending in a bad direction, with overinflated numbers, and just another grind towards the next set of instances. To get the next biggest number. Yay?</p><p>Its very obvious the math simply wasn't done during item design. I understand the game is complex. But now once again, you're in the position of telling your players yet again they are going to have to cope with another change to mechanics. The third in less than a year and a half. Yes, its hasn't even been 18 months since SF went live. So, by that logic, in february we'll be looking at yet another mechanics revamp.</p><p>BYOD, beastlords, reforging, Dungeon finders, revamping zones, new mythicals. None of it matters at all unless the base mechanics of the game are sorted out. What can I look forward to in GU63/64? Another round of loot that adds +300 to every random blue stat? That's what this update makes it look like. Seriously guys, what's going on? Is there even a plan? Because its becoming increasingly more and more obvious there isn't one. At all.</p>

[Grifion]

<p>I like the idea of uncapping the stats. Giving the players different statistical options based on play style, but for as cool as Multi-attack is I think they shouldn't be giving out as much of it as they currently are on gear. I find that being able to auto-attack 6 times per swing to be quite insane. I'd suggest lowering the amount of multi-attack given on all gear so that getting to an extreme of say 400% would come at the cost of all other stats. Dual wielding wins over 2 handed because of multi-attack. Every melee classes parse show a greatly inflated percentage of damage from auto-attack, compared to any exapnsion prior because of the amount of available multi-attack. Any piece of melee gear that doesn't have multi-attack on it is scoffed at and considered mute fodder for dps purposes. Like invisible boundaries in a video game environment, the illusion of immersion is there as long as you don't find the boundaries. Giving caps to stats is fine, as long as you can't reach them. Reasonably close sure, but not close enough to know that they are there. Heck, procing a flurry is 3 additional auto-attacks on top of however many multi-attacks are attempted per swing.</p><p>Being able to raise the minimum damage of attacks, and amount of heals from a range is nice for improving efficiency and the cap would be when the max amount equals the minimum amount, having casting speed, recovery speed, resue speed be able to reach instant, having haste being able to affect multi-attack or flurry chances, and allowing dps mod to ever boost the amount of damage an auto-attack can hit for are good uses of stats. </p><p>That said I'm sure people will complain and whine about even the thought of lowering a stat because its powerful, and people like power. Even with 300% multi-attack using spells or combat arts after an auto attack feels like just something to do while you wait for the next auto-attack to hit. Only exception to this is probably the Predator classes, because their combat arts may still compete with multiple auto-attacks. </p><p>May as well give mobs 500%+ multi attack and 50%+ flurry, and watch healers have to keep up with that. Then listen to the complaints of mobs doing too much damage, or being too hard. /laugh</p>

[NardacMM]

<p><cite>Cyan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Many times over the past year, the mantra of Smokejumper was no more nerfs. Now I guess its proven that is out the window.While Gaige may not be the most eloquent about making his point, he is addressing a valid issue. This stat uncapping is rushed. Its ill advised given the current state of the game. It can't really be justified until GU 62 at the earliest, at least when players will have a means to cope with the drastic changes(reforging). The change needs testing. Far more than just a couple weeks before a GU. AAs need balancing. Around current stats before you change everything. This plan is absolutely full of unintended consequences.Look before you leap for once. Please.If you have looked, please give us a real long term plan for what you are planning to do with itemization. Right now, items are powerful, but they are cookie cutter. Itemization has been downgraded to an extreme in variety compared to previous iterations of the game.TSO: T3 armor had multiple specs for hybrids, pure roles, melee healers, etc. There was a ton of variety. Procs went along with that.(For the record procs being permanently attached to items is the way to go, war runes are great, but it kills the thrill of actually seeing an item you want drop.)SF: Offensive and defensive sets of gear. Every char geared how they wanted to. Melee priests could put on tank stuff for the stats. This was FUN. Procs were fun. Stats were reasonable. Choose between different stats on gear. The most variety that existed to date.DoV: Stat inflation by an order of magnitude. 2x the values of each stat. Cookie cutter specs. Every tank uses the EXACT SAME piece of gear. Every scout uses the EXACT SAME piece of gear. Every mage uses the EXACT same piece of gear. Every priest uses the EXACT same piece of gear. Because there simply are no other options. SF gear made completely useless. An entire expansion of current level content. Obsolete day 1. PQ gear was better than raid gear.Lack of options is bad. So I really have to ask, given these ill advised changes to stats, where are you planning on going? Because all I've seen so far is a lot of smoke and mirrors and no real answers. No plans for the future past minor stat upgrades. It makes me sad, because I like EQ2. There is nothing on the market like it. But it is trending in a bad direction, with overinflated numbers, and just another grind towards the next set of instances. To get the next biggest number. Yay?</p><p>Its very obvious the math simply wasn't done during item design. I understand the game is complex. But now once again, you're in the position of telling your players yet again they are going to have to cope with another change to mechanics. The third in less than a year and a half. Yes, its hasn't even been 18 months since SF went live. So, by that logic, in february we'll be looking at yet another mechanics revamp.</p><p>BYOD, beastlords, reforging, Dungeon finders, revamping zones, new mythicals. None of it matters at all unless the base mechanics of the game are sorted out. What can I look forward to in GU63/64? Another round of loot that adds +300 to every random blue stat? That's what this update makes it look like. Seriously guys, what's going on? Is there even a plan? Because its becoming increasingly more and more obvious there isn't one. At all.</p></blockquote><p>VERY WELL SAID</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Cyan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Many times over the past year, the mantra of Smokejumper was no more nerfs. Now I guess its proven that is out the window.While Gaige may not be the most eloquent about making his point, he is addressing a valid issue. This stat uncapping is rushed. Its ill advised given the current state of the game. It can't really be justified until GU 62 at the earliest, at least when players will have a means to cope with the drastic changes(reforging). The change needs testing. Far more than just a couple weeks before a GU. AAs need balancing. Around current stats before you change everything. This plan is absolutely full of unintended consequences.Look before you leap for once. Please.If you have looked, please give us a real long term plan for what you are planning to do with itemization. Right now, items are powerful, but they are cookie cutter. Itemization has been downgraded to an extreme in variety compared to previous iterations of the game.TSO: T3 armor had multiple specs for hybrids, pure roles, melee healers, etc. There was a ton of variety. Procs went along with that.(For the record procs being permanently attached to items is the way to go, war runes are great, but it kills the thrill of actually seeing an item you want drop.)SF: Offensive and defensive sets of gear. Every char geared how they wanted to. Melee priests could put on tank stuff for the stats. This was FUN. Procs were fun. Stats were reasonable. Choose between different stats on gear. The most variety that existed to date.DoV: Stat inflation by an order of magnitude. 2x the values of each stat. Cookie cutter specs. Every tank uses the EXACT SAME piece of gear. Every scout uses the EXACT SAME piece of gear. Every mage uses the EXACT same piece of gear. Every priest uses the EXACT same piece of gear. Because there simply are no other options. SF gear made completely useless. An entire expansion of current level content. Obsolete day 1. PQ gear was better than raid gear.Lack of options is bad. So I really have to ask, given these ill advised changes to stats, where are you planning on going? Because all I've seen so far is a lot of smoke and mirrors and no real answers. No plans for the future past minor stat upgrades. It makes me sad, because I like EQ2. There is nothing on the market like it. But it is trending in a bad direction, with overinflated numbers, and just another grind towards the next set of instances. To get the next biggest number. Yay?</p><p>Its very obvious the math simply wasn't done during item design. I understand the game is complex. But now once again, you're in the position of telling your players yet again they are going to have to cope with another change to mechanics. The third in less than a year and a half. Yes, its hasn't even been 18 months since SF went live. So, by that logic, in february we'll be looking at yet another mechanics revamp.</p><p>BYOD, beastlords, reforging, Dungeon finders, revamping zones, new mythicals. None of it matters at all unless the base mechanics of the game are sorted out. What can I look forward to in GU63/64? Another round of loot that adds +300 to every random blue stat? That's what this update makes it look like. Seriously guys, what's going on? Is there even a plan? Because its becoming increasingly more and more obvious there isn't one. At all.</p></blockquote><p>I could not have said this any better.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Grifion wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Giving the players different statistical options based on play style, but for as cool as Multi-attack is I think they shouldn't be giving out as much of it as they currently are on gear. I find that being able to auto-attack 6 times per swing to be quite insane. I'd suggest lowering the amount of multi-attack given on all gear so that getting to an extreme of say 400% would come at the cost of all other stats.</p></blockquote><p>Sure, they can do that but then all melees will cease to be competitive.  That was true prior to all these other stat changes but its especially true with them.</p><p>Consider:  It takes me over 600% MA, over 50% flurry, over 200% crit bonus and over 200% potency to compete with our mages now.</p><p>How would you suggest I do that losing that much MA (especially with the gains mages are going to see)?</p><p>The fact is they HAD to scale up MA so that we could compete with all these mages sitting on 300% potency.  Potency affects everything they do, scouts do not have anything like that really, except crit bonus but we're forced to concentrate on so many other things we can't just stack two stats to the extreme and parse well.</p><p>Everyone always talks about how powerful auto attack is now but are they really looking at parses?  Outside rangers (who were always heavily auto attack based) and broken dirges (due to their mythical) all other scouts auto is about the same % of their parse (in the 30s, maybe 40s) as its been for the last few expansions.</p><p>Before potency was commonplace scouts routinely had 60% of their parse from autoattack because our CAs are so bad and are so weak in comparison to mage spells.</p><p>Unless SOE goes through and revamps all scout CAs to hit harder and be more akin to mage damage spells, nerfing auto attack will completely obliterate any chance we have to be competitive on the parse.</p><div><p><cite>Grifion wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Every melee classes parse show a greatly inflated percentage of damage from auto-attack, compared to any exapnsion prior because of the amount of available multi-attack.</p></blockquote></div><p>This is an absolute red herring. It isn't true. You haven't been paying attention to breakdowns if you think it is.</p><div><p><cite>Grifion wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heck, procing a flurry is 3 additional auto-attacks on top of however many multi-attacks are attempted per swing.</p></blockquote><p>Again, wrong.</p><p>Flurry is a chance to hit 1 to 4 more times.  Its not a guaranteed amount of hits other than the first.  So, no, proc'ing a flurry is not 3 additional auto attacks on top of however many there were.</p><div><p><cite>Grifion wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That said I'm sure people will complain and whine about even the thought of lowering a stat because its powerful, and people like power. Even with 300% multi-attack using spells or combat arts after an auto attack feels like just something to do while you wait for the next auto-attack to hit. Only exception to this is probably the Predator classes, because their combat arts may still compete with multiple auto-attacks. </p></blockquote><p>Wrong.</p><p>You're a dirge.  Your auto attack is skewed not because of your MA but because of your BROKEN MYTHICAL PROC THAT ALLOWS YOU TO HIT FOR MAX MELEE DAMAGE ALMOST ALWAYS.</p><p>Combine that with your rather terrible damage spells and CAs and you have parse breakdowns heavily skewed toward auto attack~</p><p>You really should understand the mechanics of this game before coming here to post about them.</p></div></div>

[Grifion]

<p><p>I simply don't think they should have multi attack, flurry, or spell multi attack(doublecast) at all. The delay time between each swing should be based on attack speed or casting speed, recovery speed and reuse speed of spells/ca's, instead of a chance to hit multiple times simultaneously. Scout dps versus mage dps should still be balanced, though.</p></p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Grifion wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I simply don't think they should have multi attack, flurry, or spell multi attack(doublecast) at all. The delay time between each swing should be based on attack speed or casting speed, recovery speed and reuse speed of spells/ca's, instead of a chance to hit multiple times simultaneously. Scout dps versus mage dps should still be balanced, though.</p></blockquote><p>While a valid point of view (though not one I necessarily agree with it) it's not goign to happen this Game Update, if at all.</p><p>If they don't have time to look at Troub concerns they certainly aren't going to have time to rebalance all Scout/Fighter CAs & AAs around a new Auto Attack average damage amount. Nor would they have time to redo the mechanics and itemization to fit the model you suggested.</p>

[Neskonlith]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they don't have time to look at Troub concerns they certainly aren't going to have time to rebalance all Scout/Fighter AAs around a new Auto Attack average damage amount.</p><p>Nor would they have time to redo the mechanics and itemization to fit the model you suggested.</p></blockquote><p>SOE has always found plenty of time to nerf fun stuff, because nerfing is the easiest and fastest way to "fix" class balances.  My suspicion is nerfs will force bard betrayals to Troub to further help buff up the newly boosted casters! </p><p>I'm predicting the Melee-tanic is sailing into the path of the nerfberg.</p><p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Valraukar]

<p>Well read this topic if you think all bards will become troub</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=503999">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=503999</a></p>

[Nevao]

<p>Today's Test Patch</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>ABILITIES / ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT</strong></p> <p style="padding-left: 30px;">Fixed a bug causing the AA tabs to display incorrectly.Multi-Attack now starts curving at 600 instead of 500.</p><p>Yay?</p>

[Gaige]

<p>No, not really.  Still dumb.  It just means everyone else won't be affected for a few months so it'll blow over now~</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Today's Test Patch</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>ABILITIES / ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT</strong></p> <p style="padding-left: 30px;">Fixed a bug causing the AA tabs to display incorrectly.Multi-Attack now starts curving at 600 instead of 500.</p><p>Yay?</p></blockquote><p>Where do you see these patch notes?</p>

[Talathion]

<p>hey Gaige how did you get 50% flurry... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Gaige]

<p>Its a secret Tuor.</p><p>Raising it to 600 is as arbitrary as capping it at 500 because both numbers are reachable in gear currently in the game right now pre item changes.</p><p>I'm seeing legendary gear with better stats than HM raid gear on live, which means with GU61 HM raid gear will be better so 600 is going to be just as easy to reach as 500 is for players who raid HMs on live currently.</p><p>That isn't even taking into consideration HM Drunder/Plane of War gear.</p><p>Everyone who raids high end will be ditching MA for any other stat they can find soon enough, which means it should've never been uncapped in the first place imo~  The reason they uncapped it was because so many players were at 100 MA and therefore gear with MA was undesirable, buffs with MA were undesirable etc etc.</p><p>It will be the same situation for a lot of HM raiders with GU61 and for a lot of everyone else a couple of patches later, if I had to guess.</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Today's Test Patch</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;"><strong>ABILITIES / ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENT</strong></p> <p style="padding-left: 30px;">Fixed a bug causing the AA tabs to display incorrectly.Multi-Attack now starts curving at 600 instead of 500.</p><p>Yay?</p></blockquote><p>Where do you see these patch notes?</p></blockquote><p>They were posted on the patcher around 11:15ist AM EST. The server didn't come down though for another 45 minutes though.</p>

[Nevao]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, not really.  Still dumb.  It just means everyone else won't be affected for a few months so it'll blow over now~</p></blockquote><p>That was sarcasm on my part. The problem is you have to raise MA to keep up with Potency gains on the Mage side. So are they going to stop raising that as well? Or are we going to end up with another stat to use to balance out against potency increases?</p><p>"THE PROGRESSION VISION!" sure would be nice to understand becuase right now I'm having a hard time seeing how they are going to keep things in balance.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Its a secret Tuor.</p><p>Raising it to 600 is as arbitrary as capping it at 500 because both numbers are reachable in gear currently in the game right now pre item changes.</p><p>I'm seeing legendary gear with better stats than HM raid gear on live, which means with GU61 HM raid gear will be better so 600 is going to be just as easy to reach as 500 is for players who raid HMs on live currently.</p><p>That isn't even taking into consideration HM Drunder/Plane of War gear.</p><p>Everyone who raids high end will be ditching MA for any other stat they can find soon enough, which means it should've never been uncapped in the first place imo~  The reason they uncapped it was because so many players were at 100 MA and therefore gear with MA was undesirable, buffs with MA were undesirable etc etc.</p><p>It will be the same situation for a lot of HM raiders with GU61 and for a lot of everyone else a couple of patches later, if I had to guess.</p></blockquote><p>It all depends on the curve. If they make it 1 MA for every 200MA chance after 600 its not so bad. 500ma chance for 1 extra ma was rediculous.</p><p>I have no problem with a curve of course we shouldnt even need one if they added stats in moderate intervals. Going from 100ma last expansion to 600+MA halfway through this expansion was the issue. Putting in a curve fixes the mess with stat inflation.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, not really.  Still dumb.  It just means everyone else won't be affected for a few months so it'll blow over now~</p></blockquote><p>That was sarcasm on my part. The problem is you have to raise MA to keep up with Potency gains on the Mage side. So are they going to stop raising that as well? Or are we going to end up with another stat to use to balance out against potency increases?</p><p>"THE PROGRESSION VISION!" sure would be nice to understand becuase right now I'm having a hard time seeing how they are going to keep things in balance.</p></blockquote><p>potency was given in much smaller amounts then MA this expansion furthermore the devs fix for stat inflation of potency is giving casters stats for spell auto atk instead of potency which theoretically should be a much smaller proportion of thier dps.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Nevao wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>That was sarcasm on my part. The problem is you have to raise MA to keep up with Potency gains on the Mage side. So are they going to stop raising that as well? Or are we going to end up with another stat to use to balance out against potency increases?</p><p>"THE PROGRESSION VISION!" sure would be nice to understand becuase right now I'm having a hard time seeing how they are going to keep things in balance.</p></blockquote><p>I'm pretty sure the DoV itemizers have absolutely no clue how to balance stats for mages vs. scouts (or really balance stats period).  They're just kinda winging it and assuming they can fix problems along the way.  Their vision is likely: "We'll create new items with lots of stats! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />"</p><p><strong>EDIT:</strong> In case it looks like I'm just hating, consider how they thought charms with 1.6 accuracy were about as valuable as charms with 20-something multi-attack.  Plus, they basically had a system set up that would have been easy to balance at the end of SF (1 potency [mage] = 1 potency [scout] + 1 MA [scout]), and they have messed up it up beyond repair...all while making itemization more boring than it has ever been.  The DoV itemizers are probably nice people, but they have done just about everything possible to lower my confidence in them.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If they make it 1 MA for every 200MA chance after 600 its not so bad. 500ma chance for 1 extra ma was rediculous.</p></blockquote><p>Curve didn't change, only the starting point did.</p>

[Ryai]

LOL. Good job Gaige, you forced them to move the starting point so you can't call it a completely outright nerf. Still a nerf guys. Seriously come up with a plan instead of this rushed change.

[Geothe]

<p>so which stat is getting nerfed for casters?what, none?oh of course, because casters are so far behind on dps compared to scouts.Wait, what?Casters are already ahead of scouts?</p><p>Who-ever is making these desicions... really needs a new job.</p>

[Bekkr]

<p>I don't understand all this to the same depth as some of the folks posting here (though after reading this thread, I certainly know more about it than I did), but it's pretty obvious there are some non-trivial itemization problems.</p><p>What I don't get is, do the people responsible for these changes honestly think that players won't notice these problems, or do they truly not see the issues themselves?  If it's the former, we (well, you guys that pick up on this) should be offended at least.  If the latter, I fear for this game's future.</p><p>I do know that I completely agree with the items generally being more boring than they've ever been, and it all started with the stat revamp.  I realize that ship has sailed, but IMO that was the beginning of the end, at least for me.</p><p>The bottom line, I think, is that it takes a lot of man-hours to properly itemize a game of this complexity, and it just doesn't seem that the powers that be at SOE are willing (or able) to pay for that.  It's sad.</p>

[Ryai]

What really drives me crazy is that we get 10 posts per day with regards to housing and zero posts relevant to the overall balance of the game.

[Rasttan]

<p><cite>Cyan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>What really drives me crazy is that we get 10 posts per day with regards to housing and zero posts relevant to the overall balance of the game.</blockquote><p>There next patch will have a house appearance rating, the higher your rating the more bonus MA, SDA, CB, POT you get of course this will be on a curve that tracks multiple homes, and rare crafted items and will have taken hundreds of development hours to finalize.</p>

[Darq]

<p>so has this 600 MA softcap change made it to live or not?</p>

[SOE-MOD-04]

<p>Necro posts are bad mmmkay?</p><p>Locked.</p>