Transmuting its a imposition

[StAyXreal]

<p>I have test it and its not really nice, i have transmuted 24 fabled and legendary items and receive 3! infusions its a joke really.</p><p>In the beginning of this week i have transmuted 50 fabled and legendary items and i receive only 8 infusions sorry guys but this is not really good i mean i must craft some adornments for myself and i cant get the resources to do that...</p><p>Please make it more <span ><span >balanced, and i dont speak from manas its all ok with manas only infusions are my problem.</span></span></p><p>Greetz</p>

[Cratoh]

<p>It's fine.</p>

[Griffildur]

<p>It's absolutely fine as it is.</p>

[theriatis]

<p>I have been transmuting dozens of fableds and since a few months i did not get ONE Mana. Just Infusions. Huh ?</p><p>Regards, theriatis.</p>

[Kizee]

<p>/shrug.</p><p>It really doesn't matter much since you can upconvert 10 infus to a mana.</p>

[StAyXreal]

<p>Test it again, transmuted 12 fabled items from PR and get one mana... have test it again ca 15 legendary and get one infusion... i dont think its fine.</p><p>Please SOE take a look!</p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>Sorry to tell you, it is working exactly as intended.  They WANT these things to be rare.  That's the whole reason they removed that greater transmuting stone or whatever it was from the PQ rewards - manas were becoming too common.  (The screaming over that was epic.)</p><p>The RNG is a cruel, cruel overlord, and the devs like it that way.</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p>I don't think it is fine either. I have noticed a serious lessening of infusions and mana is almost non existant. I have been doing this from the beginning and there is a difference.  I was planning to post, but I keep getting sidetracked by pretty houses, sorry. It isn't just the RNG.</p>

[GussJr]

<p>...just to toss this out there, but don't most questlines now give you adornments when you reach the end?</p><p>edit: spelling police</p>

[denmom]

<p>My problem with transmuting is how few frags you get at upper levels, mainly the L80s.</p><p>I tend to have a five powder to one frag ratio.</p><p>I really do wish we could take powders and make them into fragments, as if we're condensing them or such.  A two powder to make one frag would be great.</p><p>Or, at least change the adorn recipes to give back frags instead.  >_<</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My problem with transmuting is how few frags you get at upper levels, mainly the L80s.</p><p>I tend to have a five powder to one frag ratio.</p><p>I really do wish we could take powders and make them into fragments, as if we're condensing them or such.  A two powder to make one frag would be great.</p><p>Or, at least change the adorn recipes to give back frags instead.  >_<</p></blockquote><p>Uhhh unless I am not understanding you.. you can change powders into frags. (you can up and down convert)</p><p>10 powders = 1 frag I believe.</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think it is fine either. I have noticed a serious lessening of infusions and mana is almost non existant. I have been doing this from the beginning and there is a difference.  I was planning to post, but I keep getting sidetracked by pretty houses, sorry. It isn't just the RNG.</p></blockquote><p>100% correct, They did change something and lately I've been getting only powders from level 90 Legendary 99% of the time.</p><p>They need to change it back, or at the very least admit to the change.</p>

[Illmarr]

<p>I've had no issues, got 3 infusions in a row from Legendary drops last night, and on the small (less than 20) number of fabled I have muted I've seen 7 manas</p><p>I doubt my results are typical and I don't believe they should be the norm, but it is a random good streak to counter the random bad streak someone else may have. Seems to prove the randomness and the system is working.</p><p>And yes, if I had the bad run and someone posted their good one I'd still say it proves the system is working as intended. I've been on 5 nights of raids with an alliance on an alt. Rule is /random 1000 one win a night until all of your archtype have won. Not once won a piece of gear while others have picked up as many as 4 already.</p>

[StAyXreal]

<p>I only ask SOE to take a look at this problem and thats all i need <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> no discusion or other things <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Tigress]

<p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think it is fine either. I have noticed a serious lessening of infusions and mana is almost non existant. I have been doing this from the beginning and there is a difference.  I was planning to post, but I keep getting sidetracked by pretty houses, sorry. It isn't just the RNG.</p></blockquote><p>i agree. its not balanced well at all.   it seems as if i have the same chance to get an infusion/mana/dust whether i am transmuting a treasured/legendary/fabled.  i could be wrong but it sure did not seem like i was getting more infusions when i transmuted fableds.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>...just to toss this out there, but don't most questlines now give you adornments when you reach the end?</p><p>edit: spelling police</p></blockquote><p>but putting those adorns on cause the equipment to become no value which means non transmutable.</p>

[Morghus]

<p>It's fine. The random number generator is simply being its usual self. Nothing has really changed.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>...just to toss this out there, but don't most questlines now give you adornments when you reach the end?</p></blockquote><p>Not just the end. A lot of quest lines at all levels now give white adornments which are actually as good or better than the crafted ones. I have zero reason to get crafted adornments for my alts now as I do quests with them. I was saving up a few adornments on my ones in the low 80s until I could get better gear for them, but the adornments have been piling up in their bags taking up inventory space.</p><p><cite>Alenna@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>GussJr wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>...just to toss this out there, but don't most questlines now give you adornments when you reach the end?</p><p>edit: spelling police</p></blockquote><p>but putting those adorns on cause the equipment to become no value which means non transmutable.</p></blockquote><p>Kinda funny that you have to adorn it with a crafted adornment (if it was adorned with a no value one) in order to be able to attempt to get materials from it to make adornments.  *sigh*</p><p>When adornments were put into game, there was a promise that they'd always be crafted, a platitude to no level cap increase with that expansion (the first not to have one) so no new tradeskill recipes. Then yellow and red adornments were added and the comments were that they were seperate from the crafted white ones and so no problem. Then there were white adornments for the a few quests and it was said they were no problem 'cause then players would know about the adornment system and want to get crafted ones. But with quested adornments as rewards more often than quested gear rewards and the quest reward adornments better than crafted ones at the same level... *sighs heavily* Well.. it did take a few years before the adornment 'promise' was rescinded.</p>

[Mermut]

<p>As far as adorning goes.. it is kind of sad that there is so little choice for most of the white adornments.. and that while your skill max is 450, with 400 adorning skill you can make any adornment in the game...</p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My problem with transmuting is how few frags you get at upper levels, mainly the L80s.</p><p>I tend to have a five powder to one frag ratio.</p><p>I really do wish we could take powders and make them into fragments, as if we're condensing them or such.  A two powder to make one frag would be great.</p><p>Or, at least change the adorn recipes to give back frags instead.  >_<</p></blockquote><p>Uhhh unless I am not understanding you.. you can change powders into frags. (you can up and down convert)</p><p>10 powders = 1 frag I believe.</p></blockquote><p>Then I'm horridly slow and didn't know about this.  I knew there was one that converted, but I thot it was infusions to mana or mana to infusion, one of the two.  I'm not as up on muting recipes as I should be.</p><p>Thanks for the correction and info.</p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as adorning goes.. it is kind of sad that there is so little choice for most of the white adornments.. and that while your skill max is 450, with 400 adorning skill you can make any adornment in the game...</p></blockquote><p>What I so hate about adorning is that you can't use something in the same tier.  Adorns should be adjusted to be useable in the same tier.</p><p>Example: L42 mastercrafted can't take adorns in the 40's.  You must use L36 adorns, a whole tier below the mc'd.</p><p>This has never made sense to me.  Before the changes on adorns, you could use adorns on mc'd that were the same tier.</p><p>I've asked about this before but never had a red name explain (no, not singling out Domino, it's any red name)...is it a case of if the adorns were changed so that an adorn of the 40's would fit on L42 mc'd gear their stats would drop/be weaker?</p>

[Meirril]

<p>You can't quote a run of 20 items and call it statistically significant. You need a run of at least 100 or more to start getting down a firm pattern. With the percentages of some of the rarer events your even talking 1000 or more to get statistically reliable numbers.</p><p>It is perfectly fine to ask for the devs to look into it, but I wouldn't expect them to answer every "the sky is falling" thread. It would be nice if they did, but I also understand looking into every little complaint would become a full time job of its own.</p>

[Chiel]

I've noticed the trend of not having nearly enough fragments...it's the only real stumbling block I have. I haven't gotten enough chests with spell drops to get those fragments and doing pqs for adorning mats gets old after a while. Not to mention I still don't seem to get nearly enough fragments. But I definitely think getting the infusions and manas is as it should be, they are rares and should stay that way. I've gotten lucky...but most times I'm not and it's ok. As for the idea of being able to convert down...I do kinda like that idea at least for powders to fragments. There is NO recipe to do that right now as far as I've seen. You can only convert up at a 10 to 1 ratio. I'd like some confirmation and proof if this recipe exists cause I need it! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kenban]

<p>It has been a while but back when they changed it so you could do both adorning and tinkering I did a HUGE amount of transmuting. I even kept track of the chances of getting the different results. Based on what I have seen since then nothing has changed. If I remember right your chances of the common is about 75%, rare 20%, and both 5%. This seemed to be true at all tiers and item qualities.</p><p>EDIT: I just have to add when I saw this thread I really thought it was going to be about how much of a pain it is to transmute large numbers of items.  I hate how much work it is to transmute a few bags of junk.</p>

[Cratoh]

<p>Each powder = 7 fragments of the same tier IF you level adorning.</p><p>For those saying the drop rate is down - I personally haven;t found it to be. </p><p>It seems like there are less fragments dropping as there are little to none treasured items actually in game DoV.</p><p>OP has just had a run of bad luck. I have 12+ 90s all with muting and soem with adorning, and have noticed no change ( apart from the aforementtioned lack of treasured, which don;t matter one bit cos of 1 bar tradeskilled breakdowns)</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Chiel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I've noticed the trend of not having nearly enough fragments...it's the only real stumbling block I have. I haven't gotten enough chests with spell drops to get those fragments and doing pqs for adorning mats gets old after a while. Not to mention I still don't seem to get nearly enough fragments.</blockquote><p>People have been saying this for a while. I've seen it too: my transmuters tend to get about a 50/50 mix of fragments and powders once they're at cap. Now, an increased number of uncommon/rare results may sound good at first, but lesser adornments burn 3 fragments per powder (accounting for the returned fragments for filling the 4th bar) so you tend to be limited by fragments, not powders. It's worst with superior adornments, where you burn 6 fragments per mana because you aren't getting any fragments back.</p><p>IMO treasured gear should yield a 3:1 ratio of fragments to powders for a transmuter at their maximum skill, going to 2:1 if you're above cap because of gear (eg. the harvester cloak). I think it should be taken as a sign the ratios are out of whack when a guild has plenty of powders and infusions but can't make adornments because they've run out of fragments. We should be running out of the rarer items first, not the supposedly most common one.</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Uhhh unless I am not understanding you.. you can change powders into frags. (you can up and down convert)</p><p>10 powders = 1 frag I believe.</p></blockquote><p>The only recipes I've seen are the ones to up-convert (fragments to powders and so on). Do you have a recipe or recipe book name for the down-conversion recipes? Or the NPC name where you can buy the recipes, I can probably find them knowing where they're available.</p>

[Liandra]

<p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Uhhh unless I am not understanding you.. you can change powders into frags. (you can up and down convert)</p><p>10 powders = 1 frag I believe.</p></blockquote><p>The only recipes I've seen are the ones to up-convert (fragments to powders and so on). Do you have a recipe or recipe book name for the down-conversion recipes? Or the NPC name where you can buy the recipes, I can probably find them knowing where they're available.</p></blockquote><p>All the recipes should be available on the BB docks.</p><p>Transmuting Distillations, Volume X and Transmuting Dilutions, Volume X</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as adorning goes.. it is kind of sad that there is so little choice for most of the white adornments.. and that while your skill max is 450, with 400 adorning skill you can make any adornment in the game...</p></blockquote><p><strong><span style="font-size: small;">What I so hate about adorning is that you can't use something in the same tier.  Adorns should be adjusted to be useable in the same tier.</span></strong></p><p>Example: L42 mastercrafted can't take adorns in the 40's.  You must use L36 adorns, a whole tier below the mc'd.</p><p>This has never made sense to me.  Before the changes on adorns, you could use adorns on mc'd that were the same tier.</p><p>I've asked about this before but never had a red name explain (no, not singling out Domino, it's any red name)...is it a case of if the adorns were changed so that an adorn of the 40's would fit on L42 mc'd gear their stats would drop/be weaker?</p></blockquote><p>I really hate this too and my guess as to the reason is that when they redid the adornments to make it so that only one toon made them, they stuck in a bunch of degrees lesser greater and superior  to make up for the lack of number  of adornments when they eliminated bunches of them.  UNFORTUNATELY, someone got the bright idea to include level restrictions on those degrees on top of the ingredient variants.   The end result is another confusing mess with tiers and levels.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as adorning goes.. it is kind of sad that there is so little choice for most of the white adornments.. and that while your skill max is 450, with 400 adorning skill you can make any adornment in the game...</p></blockquote><p><strong><span style="font-size: small;">What I so hate about adorning is that you can't use something in the same tier.  Adorns should be adjusted to be useable in the same tier.</span></strong></p><p>Example: L42 mastercrafted can't take adorns in the 40's.  You must use L36 adorns, a whole tier below the mc'd.</p><p>This has never made sense to me.  Before the changes on adorns, you could use adorns on mc'd that were the same tier.</p><p>I've asked about this before but never had a red name explain (no, not singling out Domino, it's any red name)...is it a case of if the adorns were changed so that an adorn of the 40's would fit on L42 mc'd gear their stats would drop/be weaker?</p></blockquote><p>I really hate this too and my guess as to the reason is that when they redid the adornments to make it so that only one toon made them, they stuck in a bunch of degrees lesser greater and superior  to make up for the lack of number  of adornments when they eliminated bunches of them.  UNFORTUNATELY, someone got the bright idea to include level restrictions on those degrees on top of the ingredient variants.   The end result is another confusing mess with tiers and levels.</p></blockquote><p>I think your reasoning is incorrect. I believe the reason it was done was to legitimize the itemization differences between tiers AND the significant reduction in materials cost. I also believe Domino had a fairly good idea of what would happen with use before it went live, and found it to be an exceptable tradeoff.</p><p>While I find it highly annoying, its something you get use to. From a certain perspective (that everybody that spends one year or more at max level has max level gear) it makes perfect sense. It is in the process of leveling that it makes no sense to the players and the old system of adornments was perfered. The people who wish for the system to be like it was before the changes the most are...the more adventure-casual oriented players who generally happen to be the very crafters that create the adornments. It is rather ironic actually.</p>

[Tylia]

<p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My problem with transmuting is how few frags you get at upper levels, mainly the L80s.</p><p>I tend to have a five powder to one frag ratio.</p><p>I really do wish we could take powders and make them into fragments, as if we're condensing them or such.  A two powder to make one frag would be great.</p><p>Or, at least change the adorn recipes to give back frags instead.  >_<</p></blockquote><p>Uhhh unless I am not understanding you.. you can change powders into frags. (you can up and down convert)</p><p>10 powders = 1 frag I believe.</p></blockquote><p>Then I'm horridly slow and didn't know about this.  I knew there was one that converted, but I thot it was infusions to mana or mana to infusion, one of the two.  I'm not as up on muting recipes as I should be.</p><p>Thanks for the correction and info.</p></blockquote><p>With one powder and one aerated mineral water, you can make 7 fragments.</p><p>With 10 fragments, you can make one powder.  With one infusion and one aerated mineral water, you can make 7 powders.</p><p>With 10 powders, you can make one infusion.  With one mana and one aerated mineral water, you can make 7 infusions.</p><p>With 10 infusions, you can make one mana.</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Liandra wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>All the recipes should be available on the BB docks.</p><p>Transmuting Distillations, Volume X and Transmuting Dilutions, Volume X</p></blockquote><p>Thanks, I'll have to go look those up. I was checking the usual sources, EQ2 Trader's Corner and the like, and not finding any mention anywhere.</p>

[Chiel]

Oh yeah, definitely gonna have to look into those recipes, I never heard anything about this til now...do want!

[kdmorse]

<p>Out of curiosity, I had to go back and check when they went in.</p><p>"Game Update: Arcanum Revealed - October 12, 2010".</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Tylia@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My problem with transmuting is how few frags you get at upper levels, mainly the L80s.</p><p>I tend to have a five powder to one frag ratio.</p><p>I really do wish we could take powders and make them into fragments, as if we're condensing them or such.  A two powder to make one frag would be great.</p><p>Or, at least change the adorn recipes to give back frags instead.  >_<</p></blockquote><p>Uhhh unless I am not understanding you.. you can change powders into frags. (you can up and down convert)</p><p>10 powders = 1 frag I believe.</p></blockquote><p>Then I'm horridly slow and didn't know about this.  I knew there was one that converted, but I thot it was infusions to mana or mana to infusion, one of the two.  I'm not as up on muting recipes as I should be.</p><p>Thanks for the correction and info.</p></blockquote><p>With one powder and one aerated mineral water, you can make 7 fragments.</p><p>With 10 fragments, you can make one powder.  With one infusion and one aerated mineral water, you can make 7 powders.</p><p>With 10 powders, you can make one infusion.  With one mana and one aerated mineral water, you can make 7 infusions.</p><p>With 10 infusions, you can make one mana.</p></blockquote><p>oopsie.... went the wrong way with conversion. It has been a while since I adorned anything =P</p>

[Banedon_Toran]

<p><cite>Chieko@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I only ask SOE to take a look at this problem and thats all i need <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> no discusion or other things <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Then /feedback in game, this is a discussion forum, whatever you post here is for discussion with other members.</p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think it is fine either. I have noticed a serious lessening of infusions and mana is almost non existant. I have been doing this from the beginning and there is a difference.  I was planning to post, but I keep getting sidetracked by pretty houses, sorry. It isn't just the RNG.</p></blockquote><p>100% correct, They did change something and lately I've been getting only powders from level 90 Legendary 99% of the time.</p><p>They need to change it back, or at the very least admit to the change.</p></blockquote><p>Yep yep...transmuted 24 legendary items tonight after cleaning out my shared bank of 'give to alt' gear: 15 powders/8 infusions.</p>

[denmom]

<p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hissyfit@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My problem with transmuting is how few frags you get at upper levels, mainly the L80s.</p><p>I tend to have a five powder to one frag ratio.</p><p>I really do wish we could take powders and make them into fragments, as if we're condensing them or such.  A two powder to make one frag would be great.</p><p>Or, at least change the adorn recipes to give back frags instead.  >_<</p></blockquote><p>Uhhh unless I am not understanding you.. you can change powders into frags. (you can up and down convert)</p><p>10 powders = 1 frag I believe.</p></blockquote><p>Then I'm horridly slow and didn't know about this.  I knew there was one that converted, but I thot it was infusions to mana or mana to infusion, one of the two.  I'm not as up on muting recipes as I should be.</p><p>Thanks for the correction and info.</p></blockquote><p>Heh, yah, quoting myself...</p><p>But thanks for the info again very very much, Hissyfit!</p><p>Jrral found which it was and where, I already had them on my adorner and forgot.   Just needed for Tiers 8/9.</p><p>It's 7 frags from 1 powder is what it is for underfoot frags.  I'm very happy with that since it's 6 frags for one T9 adorn.</p><p>Kinda nice being able to make my own frags.  I keep getting powders as the majority when I mute, so it's not as much of a pain now.</p><p>Thanks again!</p>

[Banditman]

<p>I still think there should be a transmute bag.  Put all the [stuff] you want muted in the bag, click a button and it's all muted.</p><p>Doing it by singles can be really slow with a lot of bulk from farming.  Even with the improved cast speed.</p>

[Troubor]

<p><cite>Chieko@Valor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Test it again, transmuted 12 fabled items from PR and get one mana... have test it again ca 15 legendary and get one infusion... i dont think its fine.</p><p>Please SOE take a look!</p></blockquote><p>And yet last time me and a friend duoed PR, I forget how many infusions we hit but we hit 6 mana.  It's pure random.</p><p>Or to put it another way, I don't know the exact chance of a mana, but let's say it's 25 percent.  That DOESN'T mean that if I crush 4 masters or 4 fabled items that I WILL get 3 infusions and one mana guarenteed.  It just means that each time I have a 25 percent chance of a mana, period.</p><p>I've had dry spells where I crush a dozen items or more and get poor results.  And I've had it where I crush a dozen items or more and get the "crit result" (for a fabled both a mana and an infusion) multiple times.  It's just pure random.</p><p>To go off topic a bit, it's just like loot rolls off of chests.  I've done a whole instance where I literally didn't win a thing, the only reason I walked out with anything is because I had a quest in the place.  And I've walked out where I win almost everything I roll on.  Again, random.</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>To go off topic a bit, it's just like loot rolls off of chests.  I've done a whole instance where I literally didn't win a thing, the only reason I walked out with anything is because I had a quest in the place.  And I've walked out where I win almost everything I roll on.  Again, random.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but over a large sample it should average out. 4 tries, I may get all 4 one way or the other just by chance. But if the odds for the rare outcome are 25% and I do 1000 tries, I should get results <em>very</em> close to 750 and 250. I might get 900 and 100 by pure random chance, but the probability of that happening just by random chance is so small I've better odds of winning the jackpot in the lottery.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, but over a large sample it should average out. 4 tries, I may get all 4 one way or the other just by chance. But if the odds for the rare outcome are 25% and I do 1000 tries, I should get results <em>very</em> close to 750 and 250. I might get 900 and 100 by pure random chance, but the probability of that happening just by random chance is so small I've better odds of winning the jackpot in the lottery.</p></blockquote><p>Yup, unfortunatly a large enough sample size of transmutables is difficult to obtain.  Sure, you could buy up 1000 (Adept)'s off the market and make a run of it, but besides going broke, you'd die of boredom before you came up with a statistically valid conclusion. (Meh, maybe 300p'd do it, but I'm not going to try).</p><p>Small sample sizes are in my experience landing well within the realm of statistical acceptability.  For example, tonight I squished 11 Fabled items.  6 Infusions, 4 Mana's, 1 Both.  Assuming the rate is %20-%30, I had above average luck.  Next week, I may have below average luck. Or above average luck again.  Could go either way.</p><p>I suppose I could do something silly like cobble together a log scanner with an item lookup script (to look up each item I've muted in the past to see if it's legendary of fabled) - to try to get a bigger picture.  But that's a lot of work.</p><p>Hay Domino (Frizznik?) - any chance you could confirm the transmute rates are still %75/%25ish?  Or correct us if we're all wrong?</p><p>-Ken</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jrral@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, but over a large sample it should average out. 4 tries, I may get all 4 one way or the other just by chance. But if the odds for the rare outcome are 25% and I do 1000 tries, I should get results <em>very</em> close to 750 and 250. I might get 900 and 100 by pure random chance, but the probability of that happening just by random chance is so small I've better odds of winning the jackpot in the lottery.</p></blockquote><p>Yup, unfortunatly a large enough sample size of transmutables is difficult to obtain.  Sure, you could buy up 1000 (Adept)'s off the market and make a run of it, but besides going broke, you'd die of boredom before you came up with a statistically valid conclusion. (Meh, maybe 300p'd do it, but I'm not going to try).</p><p>Small sample sizes are in my experience landing well within the realm of statistical acceptability.  For example, tonight I squished 11 Fabled items.  6 Infusions, 4 Mana's, 1 Both.  Assuming the rate is %20-%30, I had above average luck.  Next week, I may have below average luck. Or above average luck again.  Could go either way.</p><p>I suppose I could do something silly like cobble together a log scanner with an item lookup script (to look up each item I've muted in the past to see if it's legendary of fabled) - to try to get a bigger picture.  But that's a lot of work.</p><p>Hay Domino (Frizznik?) - any chance you could confirm the transmute rates are still %75/%25ish?  Or correct us if we're all wrong?</p><p>-Ken</p></blockquote><p>Statistical acceptability? sure. You can use your example 11 to verify the accuracy of known numbers. But you can't derive the numbers from your sample size.</p><p>In your sample of 11 you would have to conclude that the rare event chance is around 9%. The actual chance of that seems to be 5%. From your small sample, we've got almost double that chance. From a probability prospective, we're way off the mark. Almost as bad is that we've got a 55% common and 40% rare rate when its closer to 70% common, 25% uncommon.</p><p>In cases like this your better off taking a large sample size by either getting results from a large group of people (impractical in this case, you have to trust people to record what they transmuted and their results from each), or take a long period of time. The most practical case you can get is to find someone that is about to level transmuting from 1 to 425 and parce their log since they will be transmuting mostly treasured items. Since transmuting is suppose to have the same rates between tiers the numbers should be suitable over the entire run.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Statistical acceptability? sure. You can use your example 11 to verify the accuracy of known numbers.<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> But you can't derive the numbers from your sample size.</span></p></blockquote><p>Just to be clear, I agree with everything you say.  That was exactly the point I was trying to make (perhaps badly).</p><p>Although I'd say that 11 is also too small a sample size to veryify the accuracy to any meaningfull degree.</p><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> The most practical case you can get is to find someone that is about to level transmuting from 1 to 425 and parce their log since they will be transmuting mostly treasured items. Since transmuting is suppose to have the same rates between tiers the numbers should be suitable over the entire run.</p></blockquote><p>I actually brought up transmuting on two alts not too long ago.  (two months back?)  Problem is, I remember there were some oddly priced legendary items on the market, and as a result I have a mix of Legendary and Treasured in there that will gum up the numbers.  Although I suppose I could throw those away and run the numbers on just the (Adept)'s....  Hmmm..</p>

[Cloudrat]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p></blockquote></blockquote><p><strong><span style="font-size: small;">While I find it highly annoying, its something you get use to.</span></strong></p></blockquote><p>I know I took it out of context, but it is my favorite quote as of late.   I never ever would have chosen a game that had anything that was described in that way on the box lol. </p>

[Illmarr]

<p>I'd love to know the name of the game that does not have annoying aspects you let slide and get used to because the rest of it is enjoyable.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cloudrat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pheep@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Mermut wrote:</cite></p></blockquote></blockquote><p><strong><span style="font-size: small;">While I find it highly annoying, its something you get use to.</span></strong></p></blockquote><p>I know I took it out of context, but it is my favorite quote as of late.   I never ever would have chosen a game that had anything that was described in that way on the box lol. </p></blockquote><p>Most PR people that design boxes and lables have very little to no experience with the product they are describing. Mostly I think they read other boxes and try to steal ideas from other PR teams.</p><p>Fortunately the PR teams don't come to the forums for ideas. I loathe to think what they would come up with...</p>

[sarg312]

<p>LOL, I can't even figure out how to transmute anything, I've tried and it tells my skill level isn't high enough, but I don't know how to gain skill points in the first place, it all seems overly complicated, and yes I'm new to the game.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p><cite>sarg312 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL, I can't even figure out how to transmute anything, I've tried and it tells my skill level isn't high enough, but I don't know how to gain skill points in the first place, it all seems overly complicated, and yes I'm new to the game.</p></blockquote><p>Max Transmutable Level: (Skill / 5) + 5</p><p>So, when your skill is 0, you can transmute gear up to level 5.When your skill is 5, you can transmute gear up to level 6.When your skill is 10, you can transmute gear up to level 7.etc....</p>

[sarg312]

<p><cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>sarg312 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL, I can't even figure out how to transmute anything, I've tried and it tells my skill level isn't high enough, but I don't know how to gain skill points in the first place, it all seems overly complicated, and yes I'm new to the game.</p></blockquote><p>Max Transmutable Level: (Skill / 5) + 5</p><p>So, when your skill is 0, you can transmute gear up to level 5.When your skill is 5, you can transmute gear up to level 6.When your skill is 10, you can transmute gear up to level 7.etc....</p></blockquote><p>THANK-YOU !!This is the information I've been trying to find, is there any way to know what types of items can be transmuted?  From what I understand Handcrafted items can't be transmuted but mastercraft items can, but I don't if its just armor and weapons or if other things can be transmuted as well. Thank-you so much for this information, I was getting so frustrated.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p><cite>sarg312 wrote</cite></p><blockquote><p>THANK-YOU !!This is the information I've been trying to find, is there any way to know what types of items can be transmuted?  From what I understand Handcrafted items can't be transmuted but mastercraft items can, but I don't if its just armor and weapons or if other things can be transmuted as well. Thank-you so much for this information, I was getting so frustrated.</p></blockquote><p>You'll probably find this answers most, if not all of your questions:</p><p><a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Transmuting" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Transmuting</a></p>

[sarg312]

<p>Yes that answered alot of questions I had, Thank-you again!!</p>