Uncapped Caster Stats

[Ge'Sar]

<p>After a few days of considering these suggestions and their relative impacts I wanted to post my thoughts and suggestions.  While 9 stats were uncapped, only 3 affect casters.   2 of which are either insulting or a goofy nerf.</p> <p>Skill increase - This isn't bad, I like it in fact.</p> <p>So on the two that clearly don't work.  Casting while moving was promised.  That is NOT the same as casting while rooted/snared.  I would rather this remain capped than this horrible idea put in.  This ability needs to be one where the interrupt happens the farther you move from a central point, or X steps 1 forward, 2 sideways, movement at normal speed.  It shouldn't be that hard to add in, the mechanics seem to be partially their now as I can occasionly move a step or two during my cast.</p> <p>Now Cast speed, this curve is so horribly steep, I'm going pretend you said it was still capped.   Perhaps you just don't want that much SDA.   There seems a simpler solution here.  Just allow the cap to flow naturally.  This is a stat that opens itself up to a natural uncapping with a curve strong enough to not be increadibly overpowering assuming reasonable item progression.  </p> <p><img src="http://i55.tinypic.com/2a7ecdc.png" width="481" height="288" /></p> <p>It also allows you to make item choices again, let people debate, what item do I want 40 cast speed or 30 potency?  You can make these things fun again.</p> <p>Reuse follows the exact same curve and formula. </p> <p><img src="http://i53.tinypic.com/23vezpz.png" /></p> <p>Both these charts show up to 500% uncapped, and it should take us several years to reach these levels if ever.   Now you've got four items you can you can uncap for casters, five if you include recovery.  The curves are reasonable to allow signifigant but not game altering improvements with the current levels of gear progression.   I think they also make more reasonable sense in how uncapping a stat would play out, these are stats that don't need new secondary benefits, just extensions of the current ones.</p>

[slippery]

If focus is added to casting skills on gear (which is generally only Disruption and Subjugation) it might not be that bad. Though I do think the curve on it should be half of what it is (so you increase at twice the speed as on test). The cast speed curve is an absolute joke. 333% cast speed above cap amounts to what a single red adorn gives you, and is a whole 1% extra dps. Or not even 1% if you are an enchanter. It's beyond worthless.

[Felshades]

<p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If focus is added to casting skills on gear (which is generally only Disruption and Subjugation) it might not be that bad. Though I do think the curve on it should be half of what it is (so you increase at twice the speed as on test). The cast speed curve is an absolute joke. 333% cast speed above cap amounts to what a single red adorn gives you, and is a whole 1% extra dps. Or not even 1% if you are an enchanter. It's beyond worthless.</blockquote><p>It's how they're getting around having to jerk stats around because everyone is hard capped in everything that's useful without having to make new stats or do a complete combat revamp again, which I'd prefer they do anyways.</p><p>Crit etc as a number, with X = 1%(aka warcraft) >> gear with set percentages. Their curve is so steep that after you get to a certain point, you need a crapton of crit strike to get 1%... thus effectively capping you. Without having to make the numbers smaller.</p>

[RedIris]

<p>I much perfer being rooted when casting then being interrupted because the server thinks i'm still moving when I clearly think I've stopped.  Imo, this is an awesome change that will make playing the game a lot less frustrating.  Some will have to find a new reliable way of interrupting spells on demand, but still when you get used to it, this is far better.</p><p>And hey, some day in the far future I might actually be able to move at a useful pace, something to look forward too.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>I say just leave these stats capped, and use crit bonus, potency, double cast, ability mod, and green stats to gradually increase our DPS while using special effects/procs for cool items.</p>

[Leucippus]

<p><cite>Aireax@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I much perfer being rooted when casting then being interrupted because the server thinks i'm still moving when I clearly think I've stopped.  Imo, this is an awesome change that will make playing the game a lot less frustrating.  Some will have to find a new reliable way of interrupting spells on demand, but still when you get used to it, this is far better.</p><p>And hey, some day in the far future I might actually be able to move at a useful pace, something to look forward too.</p></blockquote><p>Try it on test. It is most definitely not what you are expecting.</p><p>I suspect you might have been away since the server upgrades. I have not had the situation you are describing in the first paragraph occur for quite some time. With the way this change works, and if the situation you are describing in the first paragraph were still occuring, you would be randomly stopped (or severely snared) for no apparent reason. If there was a "front fall" attached, you would think you just stubbed your toe.</p><p>That "... useful pace ...", I don't think so. Remember in-combat run speed? It is still there. That percentage you see for the "runspeed" while casting is most likely the percentage of your in-combat run speed you "move", well crawl, at while casting. I have not figured out a way to check what the actual run speed is, but is extrememely slow with 551 focus, might as well be rooted; you can't get away.</p><p>If you raided you would understand why people are upset with not being able to joust properly. The timing on the jousts is that tight.</p><p>There is also the "little" matter that /cancel_spellcast, ah yes, does not work reliably. It is not at all uncommon on some of the named fights in the DoV raid zone for my defiler's group ward to be "stuck" casting, and chain interrupted I might add, until it expires. You can issue /cancel_spellcast as often as you like, it will not work in this situation. You can not do anything else until the spell you are casting somehow finishes casting. Then, assuming you did not wipe because you missed the group cure, you just hope that spell that was stuck casting is not permantly grayed out!</p><p>-Leucippus</p>

[Leucippus]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I say just leave these stats capped, and use crit bonus, potency, double cast, ability mod, and green stats to gradually increase our DPS while using special effects/procs for cool items.</p></blockquote><p>Rework every AA choice to not use either casting speed or reuse speed then, and "focus" effects on armor.</p>

[Ge'Sar]

<p><cite>Aireax@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I much perfer being rooted when casting then being interrupted because the server thinks i'm still moving when I clearly think I've stopped.  Imo, this is an awesome change that will make playing the game a lot less frustrating.  Some will have to find a new reliable way of interrupting spells on demand, but still when you get used to it, this is far better.</p><p>And hey, some day in the far future I might actually be able to move at a useful pace, something to look forward too.</p></blockquote><p>Then you clearly don't understand the change.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Leucippus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I say just leave these stats capped, and use crit bonus, potency, double cast, ability mod, and green stats to gradually increase our DPS while using special effects/procs for cool items.</p></blockquote><p>Rework every AA choice to not use either casting speed or reuse speed then, and "focus" effects on armor.</p></blockquote><p>They'll probably need to do that regardless.  As far as I know, casting/reuse speed AAs and focii aren't doing anything on test currently, even with the overcap conversion.</p>

[Fendaria]

<p>The root/snare on casting has got to go.  Its horrible.</p><p>I am also concerned about the increases for casting speed, etc, that mages are getting.  Are these the planned future 'upgrade' paths for the next expansion?  I don't look forward to having to gear up to 300% casting speed just to get a few extra SDA.  Its a rotten rate of return.  I want a meaningful increase to my toon, not some tiny bump I can't even notice.  This has me very concerned about what the future path is going to be.  Will mages be stuck just gearing up the new 'spell auto attack' next expansion because all the other stats are 'soft capped' and the benefits for exceeding the cap are so miniscule?</p><p>Fendaria</p>

[Ge'Sar]

<p><cite>Fendaria wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The root/snare on casting has got to go.  Its horrible.</p><p>I am also concerned about the increases for casting speed, etc, that mages are getting.  Are these the planned future 'upgrade' paths for the next expansion?  I don't look forward to having to gear up to 300% casting speed just to get a few extra SDA.  Its a rotten rate of return.  I want a meaningful increase to my toon, not some tiny bump I can't even notice.  This has me very concerned about what the future path is going to be.  Will mages be stuck just gearing up the new 'spell auto attack' next expansion because all the other stats are 'soft capped' and the benefits for exceeding the cap are so miniscule?</p><p>Fendaria</p></blockquote><p>We is scouts now!  Why?  Cause SOE feels imagination and innovation are unnnecessarily risky traits in their employees!  (open to alternative theories from SOE on why we're being turned into scouts)</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Aireax@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I much perfer being rooted when casting then being interrupted because the server thinks i'm still moving when I clearly think I've stopped.  Imo, this is an awesome change that will make playing the game a lot less frustrating.  Some will have to find a new reliable way of interrupting spells on demand, but still when you get used to it, this is far better.</p><p>And hey, some day in the far future I might actually be able to move at a useful pace, something to look forward too.</p></blockquote><p>Since everything worth a stink has a reuse, is there anything similar to WoW's /stopcast command?</p><p>Over there we use it to cancel spellcasts like heals when we need to do something else, such as cure. Macro it to everything. First casts the spell, if you're casting it stops casting.</p><p>/cast Spellname</p><p>/stopcasting</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I say just leave these stats capped, and use crit bonus, potency, double cast, ability mod, and green stats to gradually increase our DPS while using special effects/procs for cool items.</p></blockquote><p>If a proc is ever at all "useful" it becomes mandatory.</p><p>See: Overloaded heal and stonewill, among other things.</p><p>Procs are a fine line to walk and they aren't going to make nifty procs that could possibly become mandatory.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Leucippus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aireax@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I much perfer being rooted when casting then being interrupted because the server thinks i'm still moving when I clearly think I've stopped.  Imo, this is an awesome change that will make playing the game a lot less frustrating.  Some will have to find a new reliable way of interrupting spells on demand, but still when you get used to it, this is far better.</p><p>And hey, some day in the far future I might actually be able to move at a useful pace, something to look forward too.</p></blockquote><p>Try it on test. It is most definitely not what you are expecting.</p><p>I suspect you might have been away since the server upgrades. I have not had the situation you are describing in the first paragraph occur for quite some time. With the way this change works, and if the situation you are describing in the first paragraph were still occuring, you would be randomly stopped (or severely snared) for no apparent reason. If there was a "front fall" attached, you would think you just stubbed your toe.</p><p>That "... useful pace ...", I don't think so. Remember in-combat run speed? It is still there. That percentage you see for the "runspeed" while casting is most likely the percentage of your in-combat run speed you "move", well crawl, at while casting. I have not figured out a way to check what the actual run speed is, but is extrememely slow with 551 focus, might as well be rooted; you can't get away.</p><p>If you raided you would understand why people are upset with not being able to joust properly. The timing on the jousts is that tight.</p><p>There is also the "little" matter that /cancel_spellcast, ah yes, does not work reliably. It is not at all uncommon on some of the named fights in the DoV raid zone for my defiler's group ward to be "stuck" casting, and chain interrupted I might add, until it expires. You can issue /cancel_spellcast as often as you like, it will not work in this situation. You can not do anything else until the spell you are casting somehow finishes casting. Then, assuming you did not wipe because you missed the group cure, you just hope that spell that was stuck casting is not permantly grayed out!</p><p>-Leucippus</p></blockquote><p>Escape key doesn't work?</p><p>Does for me. All the time. Reliably.</p><p>Edit: not sure if it counts as "moving" with focus, but I always interrupted my spellcasting by jumping, not moving.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>There is a command, but the easiest thing to do is Options -> Controls -> Spell Keys.  Then map "Cancel Casting" to the button of your choice.  If they keep the current implementation, they should map that key by default.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I say just leave these stats capped, and use crit bonus, potency, double cast, ability mod, and green stats to gradually increase our DPS while using special effects/procs for cool items.</p></blockquote><p>If a proc is ever at all "useful" it becomes mandatory.</p><p>See: Overloaded heal and stonewill, among other things.</p><p>Procs are a fine line to walk and they aren't going to make nifty procs that could possibly become mandatory.</p></blockquote><p>Not at all.  Are the War Rune procs mandatory? The history of the game is filled with balanced procs that gave us options.  Yes, there have certainly been some grossly overpowered procs as well, but it's not as if balanced procs/effects are some unattainable dream.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>The healing procs became mandatory :/</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Edit: not sure if it counts as "moving" with focus, but <strong>I always interrupted my spellcasting by jumping, not moving.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Sure if you want to kill your DPS</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Sakiri@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Edit: not sure if it counts as "moving" with focus, but <strong>I always interrupted my spellcasting by jumping, not moving.</strong></p></blockquote><p>Sure if you want to kill your DPS</p></blockquote><p>If you have to interrupt your spellcast you're needing to move and "killing your dps" anyways so what's the point? Jump and move at the same time....?</p>

[Ge'Sar]

<p>As annoying as it is, way to much attention spent on a change that won't affect dps in the end. (Unless we die of course).   Love to see more feedback or suggestions on better ways to fix the curve or uncap stats in meanful ways.</p>

[daray]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I say just leave these stats capped, and use crit bonus, potency, double cast, ability mod, and green stats to gradually increase our DPS while using special effects/procs for cool items.</p></blockquote><p>Hate to say it, but this seems to be the most sensible suggestion so far.</p><p>Overcap conversions to some other arbitrary stat just aren't all that logical.</p><p>And in the case of spell haste -> spell double attack, the conversion rate here is so bad, that it is almost worthless to even consider. With the way I see itemisation headed, it probably won't be long before individual items have 50%+ spell haste, at which point you will just have to wonder why the spell haste mechanic even exists. You might as well just remove spell haste, set everyone's cast times to half the current base value, and just call it +% Spell Double Attack. /sigh</p><p>EDIT: With item reforging allegedly on the horizon (and also depending on how it is implemented), you have to wonder how necessary overstat conversions are / will be. Perhaps "capped stats" (that rely on conversions to other stats to become uncapped) will be something players will be able to take care of on their own.</p>

[Felshades]

<p>I still stand by my point of the reason they uncapped stats was so that they can just keep piling the same stats on items without having to make a "new" one that gives dps.</p><p>Depending on how the reforging works, that might even be useless. If you can only use it on blue stats and only add a blue stat the item doesnt have for example... I can see it being useful for melee priests wanting MA and DPS mod, but I see it fairly useless for dps classes that have most stats on most slots.</p>