Alternate Advancement Revamps: Shaman INT Tree

[Sedenten]

<p>This is my attempt to get a discussion started on how the Shaman INT line could be changed to make it more viable versus the STR, AGI, STA and WIS lines.  I'm attempting to keep my suggestions geared towards the overall "feel" of where what this line seems to do currently.  There's always the option of completely scrapping the line entirely and redoing the abilities to fit another direction of focus.</p><p><strong>Rabies</strong> - I think this particular AA is fine the way it is.</p><p><strong>Virulence</strong> - This AA is likely fine the way it is, as well.</p><p><strong>Immunities</strong> - I really can't think of a case where this AA will see much use, outside of PVP.  One idea would be to add a percentage based damage reduction versus spell damage.  Perhaps 0.5-1% per rank, to max out at 5% or 10% reduction to all noxious, arcane and elemental incoming damage.  Keep the chance to outright absorb profession spells up to level 90 for those few situations where the line was useful for that purpose. </p><p><strong>Scourge</strong> - I really can't think of too many applications for this ability, outside of PVP.  The problem is that there are so few things in the game that can reliably be dispelled.  My personal suggestion would be to add a moderate damage component (higher than the dispel-damage base) that applies even if nothing is dispelled.   Alternatively it could be a potent debuff that affects the offensive capabilities of the target significantly.</p><p><strong>Rabid Hostility</strong> - This ability in particular is lackluster and doesn't end up helping the majority of shamans once they get high enough in level to spend points in it.  I would think just about anything would be a better option than increasing the casting speed of hostile spells.  I've heard suggestions of spell double attack or an alternative option to Tribal Rage for spell-based shaman that would passively add to spell based attacks (perhaps a group damage proc triggered off of hostile spells).  As it stands I have yet to meet a shaman that would consider this endline versus the other spots they could spend their AA's instead.</p>

[Grifion]

<p>I think Scourge is fine as it is. Sure you can't dispel every NPC buff, but it does work on a lot of the profession buffs. It would be nice if it worked on all profession buffs, instead of just most. For example: It clears Rampage and Lightning Fists, but not Guardian Sphere, or Deadly Focus. Killing a mage NPC with Iceshield on via Scourge is fun. Though suggesting to add a small amount of diease damage that hits regardless of wether or not something is dispelled is nice too.</p><p>My best suggestion for Immunites is to add a chance to be temporarily immune(says 3 seconds with 10 points spent) to stun, stifle, or fear when stunned, stifled or feared. Or simply just increase the chance to resist stifle and fear based on points spent.</p><p>I will agree with you on Rabid Hostiliy. Only reason I can see to take at capped casting speed is to negate the detriments of heal stance but yeah, a spell oriented version of Tribal Rage would be desirable. If casting speed will indeed adds to doublecast chance, then perhaps it could remain because it would become a doublecast chance increase to 100%+ casting speed toons. </p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Koinoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is my attempt to get a discussion started on how the Shaman INT line could be changed to make it more viable versus the STR, AGI, STA and WIS lines.  I'm attempting to keep my suggestions geared towards the overall "feel" of where what this line seems to do currently.  There's always the option of completely scrapping the line entirely and redoing the abilities to fit another direction of focus.</p><p><strong>Rabies</strong> - I think this particular AA is fine the way it is.</p><p><strong>Virulence</strong> - This AA is likely fine the way it is, as well.</p><p><strong>Immunities</strong> - I really can't think of a case where this AA will see much use, outside of PVP.  One idea would be to add a percentage based damage reduction versus spell damage.  Perhaps 0.5-1% per rank, to max out at 5% or 10% reduction to all noxious, arcane and elemental incoming damage.  Keep the chance to outright absorb profession spells up to level 90 for those few situations where the line was useful for that purpose. </p><p><strong>Scourge</strong> - I really can't think of too many applications for this ability, outside of PVP.  The problem is that there are so few things in the game that can reliably be dispelled.  My personal suggestion would be to add a moderate damage component (higher than the dispel-damage base) that applies even if nothing is dispelled.   Alternatively it could be a potent debuff that affects the offensive capabilities of the target significantly.</p><p><strong>Rabid Hostility</strong> - This ability in particular is lackluster and doesn't end up helping the majority of shamans once they get high enough in level to spend points in it.  I would think just about anything would be a better option than increasing the casting speed of hostile spells.  I've heard suggestions of spell double attack or an alternative option to Tribal Rage for spell-based shaman that would passively add to spell based attacks (perhaps a group damage proc triggered off of hostile spells).  As it stands I have yet to meet a shaman that would consider this endline versus the other spots they could spend their AA's instead.</p></blockquote><p>... The Spell Damage is amazing, much better then damage reduction.</p><p>Scourge needs to be a huge Damage Attack with a small reuse/1.0 casting.</p><p>Rabid Hostility Needs to be Spell Double-Attack.</p>

[Iacon]

<p>Scourge should be changed into Deadly Bane Warding.</p><p>I agree that Imunities should be flat damage reduction.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Iacon@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Scourge should be changed into Deadly Bane Warding.</p><p>I agree that Imunities should be flat damage reduction.</p></blockquote><p>How about this.</p><p>Scourge into Deadly Bane Warding/Immunities into 0.5% (per point spent) Base Heal Amount.</p><p>Defilers are not Tanks :/</p>

[Sedenten]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Koinoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote></blockquote><p>... The Spell Damage is amazing, much better then damage reduction.</p></blockquote><p>I'm confused by this.  Are you talking about the suggestion for Immunities, or something else?  My suggestion was the addition of damage reduction to all spell based damage added to it.  So your statement isn't making much sense.  Could you elaborate?</p><p>I think changing Scourge to do base damage even if it doesn't dispel something would be the best idea for that ability.  I'd like for it to dispel ALL professional buffs but I'm sure there's some reason it does not (I think all beneficial dispels work that way as well).  If they fixed that across the board for that mechanic to work on any professional beneficial then that would help, but it still needs that base damage so that it remains useful even if nothing is dispellable.  It's current restrictions make it more akin to sub-ability (i.e. row 1 calibre) rather than an endline. </p><p>Changing Scourge to Deadly Bane Warding would also be an awesome idea but I think Deadly Bane Warding is being forgotten about on purpose.  It kept getting nerfed down to it's current state and then just disappeared entirely from being itemized.  A weakened version (which can crit) would be a nice touch, though.</p><p>When I think of an endline, I think of something that is worth trudging through 20+ points of stuff to get to it.  I don't think Scourge is worth the points it takes to get to it currently.  Coagulation is in the same boat, in my opinion.  With the current health pools the amount of unconscious health it grants is minimal at best, though there are shamans out there that still take that as an endline.</p>

[Sedenten]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iacon@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Scourge should be changed into Deadly Bane Warding.</p><p>I agree that Imunities should be flat damage reduction.</p></blockquote><p>How about this.</p><p>Scourge into Deadly Bane Warding/Immunities into 0.5% (per point spent) Base Heal Amount.</p><p>Defilers are not Tanks :/</p></blockquote><p>The immunities damage reduction would be for the entire group.  It's the same effect as the current defiler mythical proc (reduced spell damage by 5% for the group).  Neither shaman is a tank, but part of our role is to help prevent/reduce damage on our group.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Koinoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iacon@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Scourge should be changed into Deadly Bane Warding.</p><p>I agree that Imunities should be flat damage reduction.</p></blockquote><p>How about this.</p><p>Scourge into Deadly Bane Warding/Immunities into 0.5% (per point spent) Base Heal Amount.</p><p>Defilers are not Tanks :/</p></blockquote><p>Deadly Bane Warding wasn't really built to make defilers (or mystics, remember this line is shared) tanks.  It always had a built in detaunt for the shaman, which made it virtually impossible for me to hold aggro against anyone else doing any amount of damage in a group.  There were cases where my dog just ended up tanking over me when soloing, due to the detaunt.  I don't think there's a chance of it turning into Deadly Bane Warding, anyway, since that entire mechanic has been dropped from itemization past Shadowed Odyssey.</p></blockquote><p>No, I mean I agree with the Deadly Bane Warding, I was talking about Damage Reduction, DR is a Tanking thing.</p>

[Sedenten]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Koinoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iacon@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Scourge should be changed into Deadly Bane Warding.</p><p>I agree that Imunities should be flat damage reduction.</p></blockquote><p>How about this.</p><p>Scourge into Deadly Bane Warding/Immunities into 0.5% (per point spent) Base Heal Amount.</p><p>Defilers are not Tanks :/</p></blockquote><p>Deadly Bane Warding wasn't really built to make defilers (or mystics, remember this line is shared) tanks.  It always had a built in detaunt for the shaman, which made it virtually impossible for me to hold aggro against anyone else doing any amount of damage in a group.  There were cases where my dog just ended up tanking over me when soloing, due to the detaunt.  I don't think there's a chance of it turning into Deadly Bane Warding, anyway, since that entire mechanic has been dropped from itemization past Shadowed Odyssey.</p></blockquote><p>No, I mean I agree with the Deadly Bane Warding, I was talking about Damage Reduction, DR is a Tanking thing.</p></blockquote><p>Yup, edited my last post to reflect.  </p><p>Damage Reduction is something all priests have to some extent already.  Defilers already get it on their mythical as part of the proc.  This would be spell-based damage only.  The purpose wouldn't be to help shamans tank--it would be to add to something we're already doing as a priest.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Koinoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Koinoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iacon@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Scourge should be changed into Deadly Bane Warding.</p><p>I agree that Imunities should be flat damage reduction.</p></blockquote><p>How about this.</p><p>Scourge into Deadly Bane Warding/Immunities into 0.5% (per point spent) Base Heal Amount.</p><p>Defilers are not Tanks :/</p></blockquote><p>Deadly Bane Warding wasn't really built to make defilers (or mystics, remember this line is shared) tanks.  It always had a built in detaunt for the shaman, which made it virtually impossible for me to hold aggro against anyone else doing any amount of damage in a group.  There were cases where my dog just ended up tanking over me when soloing, due to the detaunt.  I don't think there's a chance of it turning into Deadly Bane Warding, anyway, since that entire mechanic has been dropped from itemization past Shadowed Odyssey.</p></blockquote><p>No, I mean I agree with the Deadly Bane Warding, I was talking about Damage Reduction, DR is a Tanking thing.</p></blockquote><p>Yup, edited my last post to reflect.  </p><p>Damage Reduction is something all priests have to some extent already.  Defilers already get it on their mythical as part of the proc.  This would be spell-based damage only.  The purpose wouldn't be to help shamans tank--it would be to add to something we're already doing as a priest.</p></blockquote><p>Groupwide 5% Damage Reduction, Deadly Bane Warding would be a welcome change for Defilers, we need a tree thats comparable to the dog tree.</p>

[Sedenten]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Koinoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Koinoo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Iacon@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Scourge should be changed into Deadly Bane Warding.</p><p>I agree that Imunities should be flat damage reduction.</p></blockquote><p>How about this.</p><p>Scourge into Deadly Bane Warding/Immunities into 0.5% (per point spent) Base Heal Amount.</p><p>Defilers are not Tanks :/</p></blockquote><p>Deadly Bane Warding wasn't really built to make defilers (or mystics, remember this line is shared) tanks.  It always had a built in detaunt for the shaman, which made it virtually impossible for me to hold aggro against anyone else doing any amount of damage in a group.  There were cases where my dog just ended up tanking over me when soloing, due to the detaunt.  I don't think there's a chance of it turning into Deadly Bane Warding, anyway, since that entire mechanic has been dropped from itemization past Shadowed Odyssey.</p></blockquote><p>No, I mean I agree with the Deadly Bane Warding, I was talking about Damage Reduction, DR is a Tanking thing.</p></blockquote><p>Yup, edited my last post to reflect.  </p><p>Damage Reduction is something all priests have to some extent already.  Defilers already get it on their mythical as part of the proc.  This would be spell-based damage only.  The purpose wouldn't be to help shamans tank--it would be to add to something we're already doing as a priest.</p></blockquote><p>Groupwide 5% Damage Reduction, Deadly Bane Warding would be a welcome change for Defilers, we need a tree thats comparable to the dog tree.</p></blockquote><p>Agreed.  </p>