GU61 Cleric AA Changes - Exorcism Line - Updated

[technologically]

<p>This line has gone from something not worth using because there aren't largely undead zones (and recently even undead aren't always "undead" enough for the line), to not worth using as it is nearly the most underpowered line at every bubble.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Divine Demonstration</span></p><p><strong>This is now the weakest spell we have, and far worse then the other line attacks</strong></p><p>With 10 AA, turn undead clocked in at 22000ish with a 3 second base cast time. this was generally the 3rd best spell you could cast in a given moment to maximise DPS if it were available to use on the mob you were fighting.With 10 AA, Divine Demonstration averages 6000 with the same 3 second base cast. At my toon's current stats, this is still the worst possible spell to cast out of everything I could possibly use. A 1 point Hammer Divine Smite or Skull Crack are better choices then a 10 point DD. I could spam wrath and do more dps.If you needed any better example of how underpowered the new Divine Demonstration is, look at Divine Castigation right next to it. At 10 points in both Castigation lands for 1k more on average for half the cast time.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Blessed Armament</span></p><p>This does around the same damage as Bolt of Power, only no chance of interrupt and it only works on melee hits.  Also, compare to 32 MA, base autoattack or base spell damage, its clearly the worst of it's neighbors.</p><p>  <span style="text-decoration: underline;">Exorcist's Conentration</span></p><p>Grants 67 to cast skills at 10 points, which is 1.34% to minimum damage (and maybe heals?) and a few less mana per cast, compared to 10% max health (which would cost 20 aa in the heroic or shadows tree), sharing your avoidance with your tank, 16 crit chance, or 14 cast speed. <strong>This is jokingly bad.</strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Exorcise</span></p><p><strong>Thank you for fixing the proc blocking issue</strong><strong>. </strong>Now working as described, the skill is putting out around 1700dps per mob (up to 4) While essentially "free" damage, this is still a pretty underwhelming output, and about half of what I originally expected. I'd weigh it on par with giving us 30% AE autoattack that happened to trigger on your current target as well, at the cost of 95% of your healing.</p><p>The other issue with this spell is at a lower range then even our combat arts, there will be a lot of raid encounters we won't hit very often with this.</p><p>The problem with a damage endline is that players want an endline to be a meaningful addition to their class, and developers don't seem to want to meaningfully alter a class's damage output.  For proof of how underwhelming this endline is, consider it compared to our base autoattack multiplier bump, which we have to mostly give up to take the WIS line.  0.32 to my base autoattack adds almost the same dps as this <strong>endline</strong> to my soloing 1 hander dps.  The boost to my 2H leaves this skill in the dust, and raid buffed, my autoattack multiplier boost is going to give me far more dps then this skill and won't impact my healing at all.</p><p><hr /></p><p>That makes 4 out of 4 bubbles are arguably the worst in the row, 5 if you want to include the SF ability underneath, since mobs don't generally resist spells these days.</p><hr /><p>If this was your way of revamping the Exorcism line so that it was a viable choice.... I guess it's a starting point, but its still the worst line we could take. At least before I could take it as an alternate to wear the title around in heroic content.I sorta liked the old line even if it wasn't worth taking, but if you're willing to redo the entire line for us and make it worth having, <em>please consider using this opportunity to fix the complete lack of battlepriest itemization</em>.My Suggestions:</p><p><strong>Line Wide Suggestion: Keep this a true exorcism line by adding additional damage on top of the current values to undead mobs, similar to the way undead bane procs fucntion.</strong>DD:  This spell would need to do ~1500 more on average just to put it on par with Divine Castigation. One worthwhile suggestion from below was to change this spell back to the way it was, but add a lower damage component that lands for non-undead, the way undead bane works.</p><p>None of the lines have an attack worth using so I wouldn't blame you for not starting now, but consider alternatives to an attack, maybe another reverse reactive. Something like Chilling Invigoration, without the heal, with much less damage. Even if the damage was as low as your looking at for the others, it'd still be worth precasting.BA: You're not going to give us 100% interrupt, given that you took that away from the dirges for whatever reason. It'd be nice if you'd up the damage a bit to compensate, or better yet, added a small aoe heal proc to it help the battle priest mindset of the line.</p><p>Again the best suggestion from below that I've heard for this is to allow it to hit for additional damage to undead mobs.EC: It was worthless, it's still worthless. If you made this 500 focus at rank 10 so we weren't rooted by our spell casts, that'd be nice. Really anything meaningful would be nice here, even if it was just a 20% mana cost reduction, or +10% min damage or heal amount.Exorcise: Adding a huge negative heal modifier instead of the proc blocking was a great start to fixing this endline, the only issue with the way the skill works on test now is the underwhelming damage and range.  I'm not expecting to become a T1 dps class, but an endline should at least put out more dps then the autoattack multiplier I need to give up to raid as an Exorcist, and even more damage then that if I can only use it standing under the mob and even more if it's going to give me such a healing penalty. Right now it would do about 1.5-2% of my damage. That is a pretty large pill to swallow to gain <2% dps.</p><p>There are three things you should consider to bring this skill up to par with being an endline, increasing the number of targets will have very little impact on the game. Raid mobs are a generally solo mobs, and it will just make our numbers a little more fun on trash and a the few heoric encounters worth having it on.  If you are unwilling to outright bump the base damage, consider adding an additional, much higher damage proc to undead mobs, keeping in line with the idea of "Exorcism", and making the line situationally impressive again. Lastly, the holy avenger ability is 10 aa I think we would all gladly exchange to make exorcise 6-12% of our dps.</p><p>Holy Avenger: This is currently worthless. Use this as part of the justification of powering up exorcise. Let each rank add x% damage to Exorcise with the final rank bumping the aoe targets to 6.  Alternatively, change it from 1.25 resistance reduction per rank to 1.25 base spell damage.  Almost anything would be better then what it is.</p>

[Calain80]

<p>As this is the best written post about the changes let us make this the Cleric feedback Thread (instead of 4 Topics around the same issue).</p><p>I mainly agree with you. The idea behind the change was good, but the implementation is not.</p><p>I think this is mainly 'cause the line is inconsistent:</p><ol><li>The 1st AA is a spell. </li><li>The 2nd AA is a melee proc.</li><li>The 3rd AA improves your skills for spells.</li><li>The 4th AA needs you to be in melee range</li></ol><p>So the line alternates between spell and melee abilities. If you want to keep it as a line that does not prefer spells or melee change at least the proc from any attack.</p><p>My best guess for this line would be to make it an AE line, as that is something Clerics currently have a hard time to obtain. Then we would have</p><ol><li>An defense line (reduce skills / interrupt proc / more hp and focus / steadfast)</li><li>An protect line (mezz / block (and double attack) / shield ally / AE block for friend)</li><li>An (solo) melee line (stun CA / auto attack mod / (crit) / self damage protection)</li><li>An spell line (long range DD / base spell damage / fast cast / shortime spell booster)</li><li>And now an AE line (to be defined)</li></ol><p><strong>Divine Demonstration</strong>I also think they went to far with the AE DD. It would be cool if the either could shrug of some casting time or increase the damage by a third. Or change it to a blue AE with about this damage 1s cast time and a bit longer reuse.</p><p><strong>Blessed Armament</strong>As mentioned above my main concern is that it only procs from melee. As it is a 100% vs a 60% proc I think it is OK, that it does about the same damage as Bolt of Power. To make this an AE line you could either change the proc to an (encounter) AE proc that procs of any attack or from any CA and spell attack.</p><p><strong>Exorcist's Concentration</strong>The best for this spot would be AE auto attack from my point of view.  Maybe then even exchange the position of this AA with Blessed Armament.</p><p><strong>Exorcise</strong>The Idea of the AA is good, but as mentioned in many threads it is currently really broken. The worst thing is that nothing beneficial can proc while it is active. Also this is again an ability that completely shuts down most of our abilities. Just with the start of SF you went away from that mechanic as the overwhelming feedback was that such abilities are not fun. I would not mind if it would reduce healing by 50% or the beneficial fast cast and reuse by 50%. (Actually I would mind, but I could live with it.)</p><p><strong>Holy Avenger</strong>As all other SF AA empower the end line above it I would like to do the same here. This AA could increase the damage (and radius) or reduce the beneficial penalty (by 5% per AA) with the final rank increasing the max targets to 6 or completely removing the the beneficial penalties.</p>

[steelbadger]

<p>On the subject of Exorcist I have to echo the opinions of the two previous posters.</p><p>Firstly, it's current state is one that I can only hope is a bug.  Losing Overwhelming Arms and Fanatical Devotion doesn't even make this a heals for dps trade-off ability.  You lose more DPS than you gain currently.</p><p>Secondly, if that is a bug then it's still not good enough to bother with:</p><p>The recast is too long making it effectively untogglable.</p><p>The inability to even receive proc heals while it is active means it has to be toggled off a lot (and then you need to wait an age for it to come back).</p><p>It doesn't do enough damage anyway, even without the whole completely stops all forms of healing in it's tracks thing.</p><p>Max 4 targets is bleh.</p><p>There's no way to improve it in the bottom line of AAs.</p><p>It also turns my Inquisitor into, effectively, a ~6 button (substandard DPS) class while it's active.  Not only is it passive damage (and thus uninspiring to use) but it also cuts out many of the other 'active' things you could be doing.  This means that this ability is almost specifically designed to make my life less interesting, not more.  That's not a good thing.</p><p>I don't see why this AA has such a crushing disadvantage associated with it, considering that an AA like Overwhelming Arms provides significantly more DPS with none of the downsides, and that's not even an endline.  If you're gonna stop me from being able to do my job then the upsides better be pretty monumental.</p><p>Oh, and it's still at the end of the most lacklustre line in the Cleric tab.</p>

[Boethius_Permafrost]

<p>I'm not going to even remotely consider dps abilities which cripple my ability to do my primary function.  The stances are bad enough already.  The whole point of dpsing as a healer is being ready to heal.  So I don't really mind if the new dps abilities are in fact worse than standing there with autoattack on while healing, which is the impression I'm getting.</p>

[Ragefighter]

<p>One idea for the end line could be to remove the until cancled part and make it a fast ticking aoe spell.</p><p>You can toggle it off early but while it is ticking you can't heal or cure (not the current buggy version)</p><p>It could tick every 2 sec or something and last for 12-20s.</p><p>another idea is to change it into a aoe (or blue aoe) melee/spell proc that will also heal your group (making it more helpful). This would give the "battle priest" a reason to use it and not totally ignore their group's wellfair.</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>Enrico@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm not going to even remotely consider dps abilities which cripple my ability to do my primary function.  The stances are bad enough already.  The whole point of dpsing as a healer is being ready to heal.  So I don't really mind if the new dps abilities are in fact worse than standing there with autoattack on while healing, which is the impression I'm getting.</p></blockquote><p>This.  If you are allowing us to DPS with NO healing or curing whatsoever then you darn well better make us significant DPS.  It ain't what I personally want, but it would be logical IMO.</p>

[MXGinge]

<p>I am new to playing an inquisitor - The whole reason I made one was for the "battle priest" play style.  This line needs a drastic overhaul.  A blue AOE for the first bubble would be nice, ideally a melee attack but spell if fine too.  the second line should have a 50% chance to proc not 100% leave the dmg the same but add a group heal to the proc.  the third ability... still not sure about this one.  maybe recast?  and the end line... make it greatly reduce healing and either pulsing AOE dmg 3-4X what it is now on 6-8 targets.  or make it AOE auto attack for 4 targets </p>

[Macalacca]

<p>I think the issues with these changes are summarised well above. TBH as it stands now I can't see myself speccing to this line might as well just remove it all together.</p>

[bigmamma]

<p>This line in it's current state, what would make it even better then it allready is would be to remove it completely from the tree.....</p><p>Yeah, all other classes has 5 lines, clerics has 4.... I'm personally for that if Devs really wanna keep this as it is .... Really not good at all.</p><p>Some really good suggestions above, I'm just posting here in hope of getting some devs' attention.</p>

[Ragefighter]

<p><cite>bigmamma wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This line in it's current state, what would make it even better then it allready is would be to remove it completely from the tree.....</p><p>Yeah, all other classes has 5 lines, clerics has <span style="color: #ff0000;">2.5</span>.... I'm personally for that if Devs really wanna keep this as it is .... Really not good at all.</p><p>Some really good suggestions above, I'm just posting here in hope of getting some devs' attention.</p></blockquote><p>there we go!</p>

[bigmamma]

<p>Haha, which other lines would you say are useless beeing an inquisitor ??</p>

[thegriss]

<p><cite>bigmamma wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Haha, which other lines would you say are useless beeing an inquisitor ??</p></blockquote><p>The INT line would be the other usless line.  The Int line is only useful when your Inq is sub 90 and lacks the gear to max casting speed.  Once casting speed is max or close to max the Int line becomes a waste.</p>

[urgthock]

<p><cite>Sorvex@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>bigmamma wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Haha, which other lines would you say are useless beeing an inquisitor ??</p></blockquote><p>The INT line would be the other usless line.  The Int line is only useful when your Inq is sub 90 and lacks the gear to max casting speed.  Once casting speed is max or close to max the Int line becomes a waste.</p></blockquote><p>Actually, if they move forward with the upcoming planned changes to overcapping stats, it might not be a complete waste. Although the bonuses are still somewhat lackluster.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Berserkers have 1.5 lines instead of 4.. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ragefighter]

<p>All of str all of agi half of sta (useful) none of wis and int (not useful) seems to be junk too unless the changes make it better (still as an inquisitor the inq line is more of a spell line I would assume geared towards Templar's?)</p><p>I also recognize that "cleric" does not mean just inquisitor so have to keep them in mind also but for the most part they should have smiler goals in end game save for melee focus.</p><p>The int line could look a little better for inq if the added some of the bonuses to also effect CA (although I have not really tested this I assume the +10% to base spell dmg is not a boost to our combat art).</p><p>Anyway hopefully next week they start to tweak the aa's a bit.  So far it has only been content and item tweaks so they will probably start AA fixes after the actual content is worked out. Ideally I would hope they would work on them simultaneously but from the looks of the posts in this forum there seems to be a lot to fix and they probably want to release them all in one patch.</p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">I gotta say how disappointed I am seeing what <em>actually</em> made it to test.  </span></p><p>Here I was hoping that although I'd be giving up some uber DPS and immunities against undead mobs in TOFS,etc. for some more DPS on all mobs with a little more AOE DPS option we instead got bottlenecked because some Reds don't want to code to prevent a proc cascade that would need nerfing.</p><p>Honestly, if it's not changed from it's current test configuration you might as well leave the Wis line alone as it stands now.  At least it is very overpowered vs undead mobs. </p><p>I'm also suprised on the Inquisitor tree that the detriment endline isn't being updated.  Maybe the class devs figure they don't have to deal with it till we get 350 AA since there are already certain "right answer" arrangements for class AA based on raid tuning.  Look at what they're tinkering with in the Druid Cure stuff <em>based on raid mob scripts</em> in a thread or two at the top of this subforum.</p><p> _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _</p><p>What I expected:</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Turn Undead</span> -> Turned into something 1/2 as much damage AOE instead of Encounter on All mob types.  I am regularly pulling 75K+ turn undead strikes on mobs in TOFS X2 with 10pts in it.  I'd expect to see 1/2 of that value on ALL mob types instead in TOFS x2 for example (Golems or whatnot).</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Blessed Armament</span> -> Ok, you reds wimped out and made it = to Bolt of Power basically... May I point out that this in it's current state against undead mobs is VERY VERY VERY effective and is nerfably HUGE.  I'm running a X2 1H/SH doing 40K against undead mob type A (in PQ plate), I go home, switch AA use the Taalak 2H <em>without </em>the Wisdom line and only pull 31K against the same creature type.  I expect more than just a "bolt of power" equivalent on all mobs.  It should be O.K. to let the 2nd line be that much more powerful than it's neighbors especially when some of the later abilities are poor.  It should be MORE DPS than Bolt of Power since it doesn't have an interrupt.  Make it AOE AT if there are just too many procs to keep track of.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Exorcise</span> --> This is worthless now and it's worthless later.  Skills don't to jack.  The marginal changes to skill overcaps with GU 61 don't make me want to jack them up unless someone Red or otherwise clearly demonstrates their effectiveness in all game modes not just some HM DOV raid script.  This should be CLEARLY showing how it helps if you're dead set on Skills in this spot.</p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Protection from Undead</span> -> Ok, I'm willing to give up my groupwide "mario with the star vs Undead " for some potential personal AOE DPS which can proc my battle dressing, Halcyon, fanatical devotion, etc. while I'm artificially hamstrung.   Heck, I'll even take a "broken" new effect that procs a procs which procs even more procs (which is what the Reds are trying to avoid by blocking proc effects with the new ability).  This ability should be badaxx.  Just make this more AOE AT, or modify battle dressing to be 50% more or something crazy if you can't code for procs proccing procs in a proc cascade that would lead to making a new effect broken on launch to live.</p><p>Holy Avenger-> Spell "THACO" rates aren't really a problem for most endgame Inqs or Temps now.  I wish I had another open AOE, more DPS, more proccing of my heals, etc. </p><p>_ _ _ _ _ _  _ _ _ _ _ _</p><p>Wis Line Concept Change = A</p><p>Wis Line Actual Change = F</p><p>Wis Line that makes it to Live = ????</p><p> BTW Forum Mods: When did the single word that is four letters that begins with the letter "s" that is an action that you do when drinking through a straw become a censored word?  I had to edit the post before it would "post."</p>

[Daalilama]

<p>Tried the "Wisdom" line on test for the temp...where do I begin.....</p><p>Divine Demonstration...damage output could be higher and changing to a real AE instead of encounter</p><p>Blessed Armament...aka Bolt of Power Lite = lack of real thought...damage again could use bit of a bump</p><p>Exorcist's Concentration.....more stats /yawn</p><p>Exorcise....well lets see not being able to cast anything beneficial for a substandard dps boost on 4 (lame) targets...but at least I can see my group dying around me....please tell me this is a bad joke</p><p>Not sure if I'm even gonna bother to grab any of these if they continue to live...</p>

[bigmamma]

<p>Divine Demonstration - I can understand why we'd not get a real AoE and only an encounter based one. Even so the DPS output is low enough that it wouldn't really matter if it was an AoE. Other classes couldn't care less.</p><p>Blessed Armament - Bolt of Power has 50% proc chance with double the damage output. so these 2 spell are completely identical, completely....... Bolt of Power does about 400-500 DPS on my parse which is completely poor. These 2 would together do 1K DPS give or take. Both needs some serious damage increase.</p><p>Exorcist's Concentration - Agreed... Stats, stats and more stats. With everything beegin so overcapped as it is, needing 1000 focus to move at 50% runspeed etc etc. who cares about spending 10AA's getting a few +50 something to casting skills .... ?</p><p>Exorcise - Just make this with no penalties at all.... We allready got that spell decrease from our healing stance and it's not like the DPS output of this spell will knock over epics now will it .. The powerusage it takes to maintain this spell is more then enough penalty, we're not exactly Wardens who can regen power to a point where they go "Power, what's that for??"</p><p>MAYBE i'd use the first 2 for a DPS spec, but that's it for me. I'm not even sure that spending 4 in DD is worth it unlocking and spending 10 in BA for +500'ish DPS. Beeing a Templar it's quite unlikely I'd even do that as it only procs on Melee hits. Maybe Inquisitors would use it, I wouldn't..</p><p>Edit: By the way, I just realized that Exorcise also deactives Heroic Oppertunity ... LOL. How awesome is that. FAIL FAIL FAIL SOE !!!</p>

[Calain80]

<p>Here are the values of the AE spells of my Inquisitor naked without any effect enhancing them:<strong>Litany Circle (Rank 5)</strong>Power 158Cast 1sRecast 20sRadius 10mRange 10mDamage 892-1087 (+interrupt)<strong>Litany V (Master)</strong>Power 143Cast 2sRecast 10sRadius 10mRange 25mDamage 626-766 (+interrupt)<strong>Heretic's Doom VI (Master)</strong>Power 119Cast 2sRecast 15sRadius 15mRange 25mDamage 973-1189<strong>Divine Demonstation (Rank 10)</strong>Power 367Cast 3sRecast 45sRadius 15mRange 35mDamage 683-1137<strong>damage / power</strong>Litany Circle: 892-1087/158 = 6.26 dppLitany: 626-766/143 = 4.87 dppHeretic's Doom: 973-1189/119 = 9.08 dppDivine Demonstration: 683-1137/367 = 2.48 dppl<strong>damage / cast</strong>Litany Circle: 892-1087/1 = 989.5Litany: 626-766/2 = 348Heretic's Doom: 973-1189/2 = 540.5Divine Demonstration: 683-1137/3 = 303.3<strong>Damage per minute (damage / reuse)</strong>Litany Circle: 892-1087 x (60/20) = 2968.5 dpmLitany: 626-766 x (60/10) = 4176 dpmHeretic's Doom: 973-1189 x (60/15) = 4324 dpmDivine Demonstration: 683-1137 x (60/45) = 1213.3 dpm</p><p>Currently Divine Demonstration looses out on all categories. Even in it's best category (damage / cast) it is still 13% worse then the next spell that even has an additional component (interrupt). In all other categories the spell is outright crushed that it is not even worth to calculate the actual percentage value.</p><p>If you look at Litany Circle you see that it is worse then Litany on for the max damage per minute, if you have enough time. But if you don't have enough time (in a non solo setting) it is actually better due to the less time needed.</p><p>So while you spend 5 AA to do something not better but at least different you are almost better of not casting Divine Demonstration, that even costs you 10 AA. Even the damage per power ratio is by far the worst of all. This can't be right.</p><p>There are several ways to bring it in line with the other spells:</p><ol><li>Keep the damage as it currently is and change it to an "blue" AOE with 1s cast time and reduce the power cost (and maybe the reuse). This would be good for Templars as it would be an option for an blue AE and they currently have none.It would be also good for Inquisitors as they are often in melee and have "small" heals with a short reuse so time is always short.</li><li>At least triple the damage if not more. Even with 3 times the damage the spell will still deal less damage per minute then the other spells but at least it would be a long cast hard hitting spell with a damage/cast only a bit below Litany Circle. There are some situations where such spells are useful.</li><li>Exchange the spell with something else, like a (useful) (encounter) debuff, a damage shield, a HOT, a ward, a short time buff.</li></ol><p>And this is only the 1st Option of the line.</p><p>The others are right and Blessed Armament is even worse then Bolt of Power, which isn't that good on it's own. If it would be at least an (encounter) AE proc, but in its current form its is really bad.</p><p>But if the 1st and 2nd option where bad the 3rd is ridiculous. A single white adornment gives +21 skills, my gloves give me +30 the uncapped stats need hundreds of +skill  to do anything and this AA gives you 67.5 skills for 10 AA.</p><p>Even if you change Exorcise, so that it is totally overpowered and any cleric will spec it nobody will put more then the 2 needed AA into this ability.</p><p>As written before t<span >he best idea I have for this spot would be AE auto (and spell auto) attack.  Maybe then even exchange the position of this AA with Blessed Armament.</span></p><p>I'm currently testing Exorcise and will write some more about is later.</p>

[Calain80]

Ok I did some more tests with Exorcise in the Crystalline Breaks as I think it is the best environment for that ability (enough hp so they live a few seconds but not to much damage to actual needing to heal) Even in the best possible situation (4+ single non linked mobs) Litany Circle did more DPS then Exorcise. Depending on how long it took to actually collect enough mobs even crushing did more damage then Exorcise. And that was without any AE auto attack. If the AA would not have any drawbacks (beside power) it might be OK for an end line AA, but the current damage does not justify the penalties. Either increase the damage by a huge amount (and the number of targets) or reduce the time between the ticks to 2s (and keeping the current damage and fix that procs can still proc or remove the penalties. And after playing a bit with the AA I think that should be done even without revamping the SF AA below it. The AA below could still be changed to improve this AA by either shortening the ticks, increasing the damage (and the targets) or reducing the penalties depending on how you decide to improve the base AA.

[Ragefighter]

<p>The last AA in that line [SF] Could enhance dmg or the reuse maybe or the time between ticks, and the last aa of that line (after 8 points) will remove the no beneficial spells part.</p><p>That might help it out.</p>

[Vidar64]

<p>When it comes to damage, there are better choices than the revised wisdom line.  Frankly, what I'd like to see is something in a different direction.  There are plenty of AA lines for damage.  How about a line dedicated to survivability and/or healing.</p>

[bigmamma]

<p><cite>Vidar64 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>When it comes to damage, there are better choices than the revised wisdom line.  Frankly, what I'd like to see is something in a different direction.  There are plenty of AA lines for damage.  How about a line dedicated to survivability and/or healing.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, anything but what this line is now would be ALOT better.</p>

[Calain80]

I would also like a heal line, but what would you put in it as abilities that are useful but not OP? I thought of it and I did not have any ideas that would not be rip offs of other classes or something we can not do with our spells as they currently are. So if you have any ideas for: 1. an active AA (1st are always something you need to activate) 2. / 3. a proc and an enhancement or two enhancements 4. a good and useful end line. please post it here. It might be that the powers that be might actually listen to it. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[LardLord]

<p>As stated elsewhere, I think this line will be fine if the penalty for Exorcise is significantly reduced and the 100% damage proc is changed to proc on spells as well as melee attacks.  The other healers have endlines focused on personal DPS - Clerics should, too.</p>

[ruthlessG619]

<p>What they need to do with this line is reset it BACK to its original AA's but this time make the ae ( first in the line) and proc ( 2nd in line ) hit non undead as well ( but at lower dmg while they hit undead HARDER) and make Exorcism tick ever 3 sec and have a max 8 target limit but have a 50% reduction in healing effectiveness AND a recurring power cost.</p><p>That alone would make the line worth getting with a proper penalty for its endline.</p>

[Somatic]

<p>This new line is fail on test.  The old line is better, and it is already fail.  Double fail by SOE.  must have fired all their coders who can actually use math/logic.</p>

[Somatic]

<p>SOE coder1:  Hurm the charts and graphs clearly show only a few clerics are using this line for the last few years.  Also people who do spec into it tend to only keep it for a small amount of time then switch back to a more sane / useful spec.  There must be an issue with this line!</p><p>SOE coder2:  Your right.  It's too good. When we made it we thought no clerics would ever use it.  We need to go back to the drawing board on this one and do it right.</p><p>SOE coder1:  OK lets make it slower casting and less damage then the generic healer nuke that all classes get!  OOO and lets give them something that looks like a DPS stance but really nerfs their dps by blocking procs etc!!</p><p>SOE coder2: thats pretty good but remember there are two types of clerics we can't just make it look like we are makign this line bad for one, we gotta make it look horrible for both this is a game of equality here.</p><p>SOE coder1: OK lets altnerate the line spell/melee/spell/melee!! and make them all horrible on each step hah problem sovled, no one would pick this line now!</p><p>SOE code2: How do we problem solve so good?? we will never have to worry about this AA line again, since no one will pick it, way less work in the long run woot.</p>

[Elskidor]

<p>Pitiful. We've given plenty of feedback in regards to heals and survival, and this is what we get? It doesn't even make sense. Scrap it and redo.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>We don't need another healing/survival line.  I look forward to checking out these changes once Test is fixed.</p>

[bigmamma]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We don't need another healing/survival line.  I look forward to checking out these changes once Test is fixed.</p></blockquote><p>I don't really care what we might or might not need in any case, just as long as SoE scraps this whole new wisdom line idea completely.</p>

[bigmamma]

<p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SOE coder1:  Hurm the charts and graphs clearly show only a few clerics are using this line for the last few years.  Also people who do spec into it tend to only keep it for a small amount of time then switch back to a more sane / useful spec.  There must be an issue with this line!</p><p>SOE coder2:  Your right.  It's too good. When we made it we thought no clerics would ever use it.  We need to go back to the drawing board on this one and do it right.</p><p>SOE coder1:  OK lets make it slower casting and less damage then the generic healer nuke that all classes get!  OOO and lets give them something that looks like a DPS stance but really nerfs their dps by blocking procs etc!!</p><p>SOE coder2: thats pretty good but remember there are two types of clerics we can't just make it look like we are makign this line bad for one, we gotta make it look horrible for both this is a game of equality here.</p><p>SOE coder1: OK lets altnerate the line spell/melee/spell/melee!! and make them all horrible on each step hah problem sovled, no one would pick this line now!</p><p>SOE code2: How do we problem solve so good?? we will never have to worry about this AA line again, since no one will pick it, way less work in the long run woot.</p></blockquote><p>Humoristic <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> thx for that.</p>

[thegriss]

<p><cite>bigmamma wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Fritzzz@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>SOE coder1:  Hurm the charts and graphs clearly show only a few clerics are using this line for the last few years.  Also people who do spec into it tend to only keep it for a small amount of time then switch back to a more sane / useful spec.  There must be an issue with this line!</p><p>SOE coder2:  Your right.  It's too good. When we made it we thought no clerics would ever use it.  We need to go back to the drawing board on this one and do it right.</p><p>SOE coder1:  OK lets make it slower casting and less damage then the generic healer nuke that all classes get!  OOO and lets give them something that looks like a DPS stance but really nerfs their dps by blocking procs etc!!</p><p>SOE coder2: thats pretty good but remember there are two types of clerics we can't just make it look like we are makign this line bad for one, we gotta make it look horrible for both this is a game of equality here.</p><p>SOE coder1: OK lets altnerate the line spell/melee/spell/melee!! and make them all horrible on each step hah problem sovled, no one would pick this line now!</p><p>SOE code2: How do we problem solve so good?? we will never have to worry about this AA line again, since no one will pick it, way less work in the long run woot.</p></blockquote><p>Humoristic <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> thx for that.</p></blockquote><p>Im sure there is some truth in that post above because any DEV who has tested and inq/temp knows this tree is just god awful and NO ONE will ever use it.   The only other reason is the no one at SOE play tests temp/inq and they have no clue what there doing.</p>

[technologically]

<p>They've started fixing the line, the endline isn't entirely broken on test.</p><p>I've updated the initial post, though if you're a cleric you should go try it out and come back with some dps numbers to give the dev's a better idea of what the new line is/isnot doing for us.</p>

[DxPreist1]

<p>Had little desire to spec this line when it was old, read the new line and laughed about how it was nice to not have that little desire anylonger.</p>

[Calain80]

I did some tests after this went to test: Divine Demonstation is still useless. You will be almost always better of doing something else then casting this spell. Blessed Armament does a bit more damage then Bolt of Power. Still so so, esp as both AA are so similar. Exorcist's Concentration was useless and still is. Exorcise is useable now. It isn't great, but it's ok. If the rest of the line would be worthwhile, it might be a valid spec. (Unfortunately they are not) The damage was normally 3rd or 4th behind auto attack, Litany Circle and Chilling Invigoration if I was fighting several non linked mobs. I would liked to check it out in a raid environment to see if you could use it even while fighting easy nameds. I guess so. Some detailed results: The radius is a strange thing. 7.5m is small, so you really need to stay close to the mobs, but at least it reduces the chances for adds due to the aura. I would still like the radius expanded to 10m. Beside this I think it should trigger based of if you are in combat instead of if you are on someones hate list. There are just to many negatives from it actually drawing you into combat (disabling your runspeed and healing and maybe even adding some nearby guards) if you get an add, either while running around, or due to an script effect and so on.

[Arkenor]

<p>Divine Demonstration seems to be amazingly power hungry, at least at my level. Are we sure that's not a bug?</p>

[Calain80]

Yes we are sure. It was already mentioned several times and while they did some changes to other AA of the line the power cost and damage of Divine Demonstration were not changed.

[CordTheSeeker]

<p>For the love of god, just take the (I cannot control my language) line out.  Nobody took it before.  Nobody will take it now.</p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p>I <strong>took the line</strong> and  I am (<em>but will no longer be</em>) godly in TOFS X2 with less gear than someone w/o the line. </p><p>Honestly, changing something that is O V E R P O W E R E D vs a certain mob type to something that is U N D E R P O W E R E D vs all mob types is just a terrible decision.</p><p>The endline nerfing your healing output is too much like the old Fanticsm model where you had to constantly toggle it off and on mid-fight.  <span style="color: #ff00ff;">At this stage in EQ2's life cycle is that really necessary?</span> No.  It is not.</p><p>Also, I wouldn't be suprised that people <strong>like me</strong> who were "undergeared" in PQ with a PQ 1H and Ascent Shield pulling 40K+ because of that line "flagged" this line for a nerf since no AA should make a player not "need" to grind gear. </p><p>Who needs another 10 CB or 10 pot when the cleanse undead was sooo uber vs undead?  I never noticed that I didn't have the compete "gear" we were supposed to have.</p><p>I personally won't be speccing further than the "cleanse" in the Wis Line after this change and won't be dropping more than 4 in divine demonstration to get to it.  Divine demonstration probably won't stay on my hotbar either. </p><p>The endline isn't that great <span style="color: #ff00ff;">unless someone is posting that the "pulse" is<em> as uber</em> a DPS additive </span>as cleanse undead was vs undead.  I can't seem to figure out how to get on the test server so I can't test it myself.  I've done a testcopy a week ago and have the most up to date launcher but don't see how to get there.</p><p><span style="color: #ff00ff;">I don't see why the Wis line can't be BOTH at the same time.</span>  Let the current incarnation of Undead (as it sits) stay while allowing the "new" effects at their current levels of meh-ness be vs non-undead.  That would warrant the "meh-ness" of it's new state. </p><p>The only reason I can think of is that they're going to change ALL mobs gamewide to just be mobs and no longer tag undead or beast or whatever making their life simpler with the skeleton crew. </p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">As a side comment</span>: This nerf (yes I'm calling it like I see it) isn't going to make more people spec this line.  <span style="color: #ff00ff;">Honestly, the Inq tree detriment endline with the -5% MA or whatever it was needs some SERIOUS help and is less contentious to fix.</span>  Why not just make that one -15% mob CM or one of these new treadmill stats DOV introduced? </p>

[leiela]

<p>-- Please Note these Observations are from a Templar Point of View --</p><p>The wis line was a totally useless line that no-one took, it is STILL a totally useless line that no-one takes.</p><p>Templar DPS has always been rubbish, Soloing is painfully tidieous because of how poor our dps is. Yes we rarely die but some DPS is really needed before it becomes a viable adventuring choice. </p><p>With the changes i eagerly specc'ed the new line hoping it would allow me to solo daily's in a less painful manner.  </p><p>However While i'll grant you dps is marginally better it hasn't been a big enough improvement for me to bother taking the slight detor past my AA mirror to spec it before adventuring. Infact an entire Templar DPS spec isn't a big enough improvement and most of the time i do the daily's in my heal spec because overall it honestly isn't noticable it's either painfully slow or slightly less painfully slow.</p><p>Perhaps this line is more useful to inquisitor's who's dps is significantly better all around than mine??</p><p>Honestly i would love to see a re-vamp that allows me to have a DPS spec that has ACTUAL DPS.... rather than some wishy washy "pretend dps".</p><p>I realise this is difficult to do in the Cleric line as it alter's Inquis DPS and that seem's to be fine, however even fully specced for DPS i barely hit 5k dps and honestly my gear isn't bad.  Equiv dps class's at my level are hitting 60-70k (even 100k+ on raids) So really is hitting 15k to much to ask? if i set up an entire AA spec for DPS? I don't think it would over-power us we arnt going to rival the DPS class's in my mind i will just to allow us alittle flexability and give us the ability to solo without it being painful.</p><p>-------- Exclaimer ----------</p><p>All this said, this is only assuming that the Dev's are determined to give Templar's viable dps. Personally i didn't play a Templar to "dps or solo" i knew they where rubbish at both before rolling the class.</p><p>Personally i'd like to see the Wisdom line re-vamped into a Cure line or something else which helps our heal capabilitys after all thats why we all played the class in the first place. </p><p>Truthfully i'd love Templar's to be the BEST healers in the game even if we can do nothing else, but if dev's are insistant on balancing the class's so all healers heal the same then i want Inquis DPS <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </p><p>Right now the whole healer balance is way out of whack. I think dev's need to make a decision either make all healers equal on DPS and Healing or fix the balance so class's at the TOP of the healer dps scale are at the BOTTOM of the healing scale and v's versa.</p><p>Right now you only need to look at high end raid make-up to know where the healer love is and which class's are broken.</p><p>P.S Yes I am a rather disgruntled templar... fix the balance please!!!</p>