The death of T4 BG [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

metahoop

08-02-2011, 10:11 AM

When BG's first started I feel in love with it. In the beginning no one was maxing out their toon at lower levels, except for a handful of players. As an experiment I started what I beleive to be the first truly dedicated low-level BG based guild, also because guilds/players from Nagafen were coming into BG and dominating. I was shocked to find that other people were interested in "locking" their toons at 39 and the guild grew(pve server). At one point we entered a Smuggler's Den with an unprecidented 4 groups! A complete raid force! This was amazingly fun. It also suprised me that we had one of the most active guilds I had ever been in and we were locked at 39!?!( not to mention adult only, which only restricted our numbers). It attracted all types of players, stong raid types looking to blow off steam, dedicated grinding twinksters and the casual weekend warior. We worked closely together helping each other become the best player we could be. Additionally, almost all players were relativley cordial with each other in the T4 matches, we got to know players from other servers and it created one of the best mmorpg experiences to date. Then, like the bubonic plague, in comes Tundra(T4). At first it was very difficult to understand what the objective was; The towers/gates could be attacked , however they would heal themselves(never dropping below 98%) despite an entire raid force hitting them; The opposing players were worth 1 point!?! BG is PvP, right? Yet, killing some PvE mob was worth 10, not to mention it would take a raid force to kill one within a reasonable time; Faction grinding for the "new and improved" gear, only to find that after you equipped all the peices your stats would drop ( yea, multi attack went up a little as well as crit mit, however you would lose general stats, ie. tanks -25str, plus some other negative impacts I can't think of right now) Why work so hard for gear thats relatively comparable to the stuff we already had? Forgot to mention level 90 players entering T4's, but I won't even go there. Who "designed" and "tested" this system? Good grief Charlie Brown! ...and then it happened. People in the guild were totally disgusted with having to grind for gear that was sub-par, getting squashed by 90's and continuously having to play Tundra over and over and over while killing pve mobs in order to win.So, instead of banging our heads against the wall playing the single worst addition to eq2, most of us decided T4 BG was not worth playing anymore. The introduction of this sytem and the lack of attention given to the severity of these problems has forced the majority of my guild to dismantle itself ( we're now just another casual guild in a sea of boring casual pve guilds). A few of us hang on to some of our locked 39 toons, but for the most part, T4 BG's are dead.Regretfully,NuxxUndercon of Everfrost.

Redrighthand

08-02-2011, 10:38 AM

and they want to take the shadows AA page off us too <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Does SOE hate people actually having fun? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Balrok

08-02-2011, 11:01 AM

You should rename this thread "The death of BG ". What your describe happened at all tiers.What bothers me the most, is not so much the failure of Tundra and it's resulting gear.... but the complete lack of acknowledgement from SoE. When you wreck something, fix it quick. This waiting for GU61 to "attempt" to maybe address concerns (again, we don't know what if anything is coming) is too little too late. Most have just stopped playing and given up hope never to return.Maybe PvE is booming and they see their development efforts as a success. But from a PvP perspective, they ruined a great thing. Again, I listen to the fan fair dev panels and realize I'm playing a different game then development is.

Delethen

08-02-2011, 01:27 PM

<cite>Exur@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You should rename this thread "The death of BG ". What your describe happened at all tiers.What bothers me the most, is not so much the failure of Tundra and it's resulting gear.... but the complete lack of acknowledgement from SoE. When you wreck something, fix it quick. This waiting for GU61 to "attempt" to maybe address concerns (again, we don't know what if anything is coming) is too little too late. Most have just stopped playing and given up hope never to return.Maybe PvE is booming and they see their development efforts as a success. But from a PvP perspective, they ruined a great thing. Again, I listen to the fan fair dev panels and realize I'm playing a different game then development is.</blockquote>Exur nailed it. The only two changes to battlegrounds that are due with GU61 as far as I can remember are the addition of faction (which is surely just a 5 minute thing to fix anyway so why that needs to wait god only knows) and correcting a bug that apparently allows PvE crit bonus to work in BGs.If they don't at the very least fix the matchmaker I can't see the addition of faction changing much. Its such a train wreck in its current state that even if people had the inclination to play again (which is patently not the case right now - I could probably queue all night and not have a proper BG atm) they would end up being frustrated.SoE through their own crass ineptitude (even by their remarkable standards) have managed to fundamentally destroy something that was enjoyed by a great number of people. Its a real shame.

karnath

08-02-2011, 07:02 PM

welcome to the pvp world, we are the last to see any changes, never get any feed back, always kept in the dark, and then when they finally make changes they are the opposite of what players want. and the pvp game degrades more.

Winter12345

08-03-2011, 04:48 PM

Well, at least they're making all BGs give faction in the next update....That's a start...

Ilovecows

08-04-2011, 09:08 PM

<cite>karnath wrote:</cite><blockquote>welcome to the pvp world, we are the last to see any changes, never get any feed back, always kept in the dark, and then when they finally make changes they are the opposite of what players want. and the pvp game degrades more.</blockquote>truer words were never spoken.

Sprin

08-04-2011, 10:56 PM

<cite>Steppen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>karnath wrote:</cite><blockquote>welcome to the pvp world, we are the last to see any changes, never get any feed back, always kept in the dark, and then when they finally make changes they are the opposite of what players want. and the pvp game degrades more.</blockquote>truer words were never spoken.</blockquote>And we hear / see / get even less PVP updates now that this craptastic version of "instanced carebare PVP" called BG's was put in place...

Vaylan77

08-06-2011, 05:28 PM

I used to play Bgs in the evening just for fun. Ganak and Gears I loved the most. Gears popped fast even without being daily. Since we have tundra smuggler'S never pop again, ganak takes forever and then it's 3vs3 and sometimes gears comes up, also around 3vs3. and besides that we have 90s in t4 bgs.BGs died with the release of tundra - that's clear to everyone but soe as it looks like. they have not done anything to change the bgs. they just keep it the way and more and more ppl stop playing bgs.

Lethe5683

08-06-2011, 10:47 PM

<cite>Silbermond@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I used to play Bgs in the evening just for fun. Ganak and Gears I loved the most. Gears popped fast even without being daily. Since we have tundra smuggler'S never pop again, ganak takes forever and then it's 3vs3 and sometimes gears comes up, also around 3vs3. and besides that we have 90s in t4 bgs.BGs died with the release of tundra - that's clear to everyone but soe as it looks like. they have not done anything to change the bgs. they just keep it the way and more and more ppl stop playing bgs.</blockquote>I know SoE often seems to have no clue what they are doing and messing stuff up in that way; but it almost seems like they are trying to make everyone abandon BGs just cause they don't want to deal with it anymore.

Makembleed

08-15-2011, 11:51 PM

<cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silbermond@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I used to play Bgs in the evening just for fun. Ganak and Gears I loved the most. Gears popped fast even without being daily. Since we have tundra smuggler'S never pop again, ganak takes forever and then it's 3vs3 and sometimes gears comes up, also around 3vs3. and besides that we have 90s in t4 bgs.BGs died with the release of tundra - that's clear to everyone but soe as it looks like. they have not done anything to change the bgs. they just keep it the way and more and more ppl stop playing bgs.</blockquote>I know SoE often seems to have no clue what they are doing and messing stuff up in that way; but it almost seems like they are trying to make everyone abandon BGs just cause they don't want to deal with it anymore.</blockquote>Bingo. This big of a seeming screwup can't be unintentional.

Kimber

08-16-2011, 02:36 AM

/fork

Mattax

09-19-2011, 12:47 PM

I couldn't agree with you more Nuxx.Bg's used to be so much fun, back in the day ( Tarrak here)

Hammieee

09-22-2011, 09:05 PM

<cite>metahoop wrote:</cite><blockquote> When BG's first started I feel in love with it. In the beginning no one was maxing out their toon at lower levels, except for a handful of players. As an experiment I started what I beleive to be the first truly dedicated low-level BG based guild, also because guilds/players from Nagafen were coming into BG and dominating. I was shocked to find that other people were interested in "locking" their toons at 39 and the guild grew(pve server). At one point we entered a Smuggler's Den with an unprecidented 4 groups! A complete raid force! This was amazingly fun. It also suprised me that we had one of the most active guilds I had ever been in and we were locked at 39!?!( not to mention adult only, which only restricted our numbers). It attracted all types of players, stong raid types looking to blow off steam, dedicated grinding twinksters and the casual weekend warior. We worked closely together helping each other become the best player we could be. Additionally, almost all players were relativley cordial with each other in the T4 matches, we got to know players from other servers and it created one of the best mmorpg experiences to date. Then, like the bubonic plague, in comes Tundra(T4). At first it was very difficult to understand what the objective was; The towers/gates could be attacked , however they would heal themselves(never dropping below 98%) despite an entire raid force hitting them; The opposing players were worth 1 point!?! BG is PvP, right? Yet, killing some PvE mob was worth 10, not to mention it would take a raid force to kill one within a reasonable time; Faction grinding for the "new and improved" gear, only to find that after you equipped all the peices your stats would drop ( yea, multi attack went up a little as well as crit mit, however you would lose general stats, ie. tanks -25str, plus some other negative impacts I can't think of right now) Why work so hard for gear thats relatively comparable to the stuff we already had? Forgot to mention level 90 players entering T4's, but I won't even go there. Who "designed" and "tested" this system? Good grief Charlie Brown! ...and then it happened. People in the guild were totally disgusted with having to grind for gear that was sub-par, getting squashed by 90's and continuously having to play Tundra over and over and over while killing pve mobs in order to win.So, instead of banging our heads against the wall playing the single worst addition to eq2, most of us decided T4 BG was not worth playing anymore. The introduction of this sytem and the lack of attention given to the severity of these problems has forced the majority of my guild to dismantle itself ( we're now just another casual guild in a sea of boring casual pve guilds). A few of us hang on to some of our locked 39 toons, but for the most part, T4 BG's are dead.Regretfully,NuxxUndercon of Everfrost.</blockquote>May Undercon forever live in our hearts nuxx......... -Hammieee/Ines

Buzzing

09-23-2011, 04:34 PM

Your all correct, don't forget the lame Champions respite that forces me to stand around in a place with nothing to do in order to wait for a new BG. That killed it for me as well.

swerve126

10-14-2011, 03:06 AM

Good post nuxx.... I have a couple of ideas, not sure if they will be liked by everyone but its worth a try.1) The dum arses at SOE can ive us back the shadows tree. If its up to them they wil just keep killing bgs so this proll wont work.2) Everone can move there t4 toons to lvl 50 to 59 and play there. I know we woul have to regear but atleast we could play again. aka, Locknorris of Everfrost

Elwin

10-28-2011, 12:17 AM

Have T4 battlegrounds improved at all with any of the changes? Is it safe to come back yet?

Snached

10-28-2011, 09:33 AM

Changes coming with AOD, <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

Twinbladed

10-30-2011, 10:37 PM

Lol bg's are messed up, you should see how pvp is now, brawlers are untouchable, scout fight last like a few seconds, same thing with sorc's, melee is 90% of all dps you don't really even got to click a ca half the people just wait on flurry. The whole idea of players fighting other players is broken. They didn't think it threw and obviously do not care.

Brigh

10-31-2011, 08:00 PM

<cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your all correct, don't forget the lame Champions respite that forces me to stand around in a place with nothing to do in order to wait for a new BG. That killed it for me as well.</blockquote>I read this and just had to comment.No one forces you to zone to CR. What do you do when you DON'T zone there? Stand around? No? Then do that instead.After nearly a year absent from BG I come back to find that certain poisons STILL can NOT be cured when you are level 39 trying to cure them. What in the FREAKIN HELL?! Nothing should be uncurable in BG.

Ilovecows

11-01-2011, 07:21 PM

<cite>Brigh wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Buzzing@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Your all correct, don't forget the lame Champions respite that forces me to stand around in a place with nothing to do in order to wait for a new BG. That killed it for me as well.</blockquote>I read this and just had to comment.No one forces you to zone to CR. What do you do when you DON'T zone there? Stand around? No? Then do that instead.After nearly a year absent from BG I come back to find that certain poisons STILL can NOT be cured when you are level 39 trying to cure them. What in the FREAKIN HELL?! Nothing should be uncurable in BG.</blockquote>Yeah you are forced to go into Champion's Respite after completing a BG, which is rather annoying, unless there is some way i do not yet know about to go back to the game instead of being forced into CR after every BG match.In a BG you should be able to cure any effect on you. I have not seen any cause when in a BG that i was not able to cure an effect, although I am not denying there is one.

Elwin

11-26-2011, 05:51 PM

I can describe T4 bg's in two words. Total rubbish.

MurFalad

12-12-2011, 09:10 PM

I did one bg at the low levels, somewhere in the 30's/40's, it was a Ganak, I attacked someone running to our flag all the way to our flag, and all the way to theirs, just before they entered their room they turned around and 2 shot me, I was mostly in decent questing gear. I didn't bother again on that character as I couldn't face the several month slog that it would need to get the gear to match the players there, I can't remember getting into a BG on any of my other characters below 90.In short the BG's have too large a gap between top end gear and low end (no one should be invulnerable), the combat runs at too fast a pace (I need to cast a interrupt before I see them cast the spell, ie impossible), and gear>skill (someone who turns their back on an opponent should get punished).Until they fix all that they'll always lack something, which is a shame since there is so much potential there, and when there is a equal matchup even with its flaws its good fun.

Tygana

12-13-2011, 05:20 PM

<cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite><blockquote>I did one bg at the low levels, somewhere in the 30's/40's, it was a Ganak, I attacked someone running to our flag all the way to our flag, and all the way to theirs, just before they entered their room they turned around and 2 shot me, I was mostly in decent questing gear. I didn't bother again on that character as I couldn't face the several month slog that it would need to get the gear to match the players there, I can't remember getting into a BG on any of my other characters below 90.In short the BG's have too large a gap between top end gear and low end (no one should be invulnerable), the combat runs at too fast a pace (I need to cast a interrupt before I see them cast the spell, ie impossible), and gear>skill (someone who turns their back on an opponent should get punished).Until they fix all that they'll always lack something, which is a shame since there is so much potential there, and when there is a equal matchup even with its flaws its good fun.</blockquote>There used to be some help with this, the mastercrafted armors from lvl 30 all had toughness on them to help out new players. For some reason they removed it, and now new BG players are pretty much just there for kill points until they get enough tokens for the BG armor.

EndevorX

12-13-2011, 05:54 PM

ITT (IN DIS THRAED) SOE may likely pass up on the righteous opportunity to rectify poorly designed objectivespoor lvl locking had such potenshil :{may hope in its glory one day return :'[

Elepian

12-20-2011, 02:21 PM

I must agree with the OP that Frozen Tundra Map truly killed BGs. Honestly aside from it being tedious, what was wrong with Smuggs/ Ganak/ and Klakanon? Take Tundra out of BGs and just give us back what we had before. Taking the shadows tree was pretty uncalled for as well.. seriously, if I can get 170 AA as a level 39, why can't others? Just take the time out of your day and quest and get the AA up. Work something out and do a Pillars of Flame AA run for your guildmates that are BGing. Nothing was handed to me, I went after it. So I don't see any reason to penalize those who worked hard for the AA they had just because others didn't choose to do it as well. Who really expects to hit 39 and waltz into BGs and be unstoppable at the get go?Warmest Regards,Elepian Stormspirit

Kryvak

12-20-2011, 06:04 PM

Since I'm sure they won't even consider taking out the Frozen Tundra map, the best thing to do would be for everyone to just not queue for it. You have the option to queue for everything but Tundra, and if more people do that, the others would start getting more and more popular.

Souse

12-20-2011, 06:28 PM

<cite>Kryvak@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since I'm sure they won't even consider taking out the Frozen Tundra map, the best thing to do would be for everyone to just not queue for it. You have the option to queue for everything but Tundra, and if more people do that, the others would start getting more and more popular.</blockquote>Why don't they take out this map? There have been constant complaints! If the developers have some kind of heart attachment to this thing, then do somethign to make it special and as amazing as they see it! Otherwise, they have absolutely no reason why to keep it! .. oof >3<

Kryvak

12-20-2011, 07:03 PM

<cite>Tumultuous@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kryvak@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since I'm sure they won't even consider taking out the Frozen Tundra map, the best thing to do would be for everyone to just not queue for it. You have the option to queue for everything but Tundra, and if more people do that, the others would start getting more and more popular.</blockquote>Why don't they take out this map? There have been constant complaints! If the developers have some kind of heart attachment to this thing, then do somethign to make it special and as amazing as they see it! Otherwise, they have absolutely no reason why to keep it! .. oof >3<</blockquote>Whether the majority of players like it or not, I doubt they'll remove content without a very good reason, but anyone who doesn't like it can just queue for everything but it. Spread the word around, say something at the end of each BG, more and more people will start doing it, and eventually it won't be an issue.

Seliri

12-26-2011, 07:20 PM

not sure how much community sentiment is regarded because tundra has been hated since it cameshucks bunniererieris

Tygana

12-30-2011, 05:43 PM

<cite>Kryvak@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tumultuous@Nagafen wrote:</cite> but anyone who doesn't like it can just queue for everything but it.</blockquote>If you can. I have noticed that if I don't queue for tundra I won't get any BG invites. I think the devs that created tundra don't like that we don't like it, so have setup the system to force you to queue for it to get any others.

Seliri

12-30-2011, 10:50 PM

<cite>Tygana@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kryvak@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tumultuous@Nagafen wrote:</cite> but anyone who doesn't like it can just queue for everything but it.</blockquote>If you can. I have noticed that if I don't queue for tundra I won't get any BG invites. I think the devs that created tundra don't like that we don't like it, so have setup the system to force you to queue for it to get any others.</blockquote>LOl dat'd be funny if the devs were that snide & pettyalthough their bureaucracy truly is great to minimize faction gain in other battlegrounds, comparatively, on top of keeping those lame NPCs...