Do I Have This Right? - Short Version of SF and DOV Raids.

[Kunaak]

<p>Kerafrym tricks roehn theer, he escapes from the void where hes been imprisoned for a long time - the avatars flee, cause roehn theer is coming back.</p><p>we defeat theer - kerafrym shows up, shows he tricked everyone, so he could get the swords from theer - these swords are the things that hold the balance.</p><p>he can own them - but cannot control them.</p><p>the gods taking thier time to deal with keraphym, rallos zek gets impatient and deciedes to do it on his own.</p><p>he cant do this, as fighting him is pretty much the destruction of everything, but he blindly rushs off to raise a army to face kerfym - that being the kromzek. drundr comes as part of trying to raise this army.</p><p>the plane of war is when we basically are heading off to try and stop rallos zek, from facing kerafrym?</p><p>this is kinda a mix up of what I remember from many quests and things like the cut scene when you kill 4RT. but am I atleast kinda close?</p>

[Corydonn]

<p>We are going to kill Rallos Zek so we can reenergize Roehn Theer's swords for the battle with Kerafyrm.</p>

[Cusashorn]

^ And quite possibly free Sullon Zek to take over as the new God of War when we kill Rallos..... hopefully.

[Rainmare]

<p>Kera was never trapped in the Void.</p><p>Theer was coming back on his own, using El'Arad as his puppet in doing so.</p><p>We Beat Theer, Kera shows up using the spell we helped test to steal the power from the Swords of Destiny....which yes is unstable in him.</p><p>the Gods are trying to figure out how to beat/subdue Kera...as killing him is not an option, and he right now CAN potentially kill them.</p><p>Rallos is raising the Kromzek to march on Kera....Drunder is part of him manifesting himself on Norrath, not an Avatar, but the God of War himself.</p><p>We're looking to free Vallon, Tallon, and Sullon from Drunder. Rallos plans on consuming them to counter the energy loss of manifesting directly on Norrath ( Sullon seems to be the only one aware of this)</p><p>the plan is Sullon/Tallon/Vallon face weakened Rallos, Kill him, we use the divine energy of rallos' death throes to 'rempower the Swords of Destiny.</p><p>Presumably, we'd had these off to Theer, who would use them to take the power back from Kera...then we deal with Kera himself.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p>And who knows, maybe when we kill Kerafyrm, Rallos Zek's energies might be thrust out of the Swords, and he might return to his seat as the God of War.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Presumably, we'd had these off to Theer, who would use them to take the power back from Kera...then we deal with Kera himself.</p></blockquote><p>And then we apologize to Theer for days and days for beating him when he was really the good guy in this one. Then we join him in punishing the gods by slaying them on their home planes for Great Justice and Phat Lewts...wait...didn't everything go wrong after adventurers started doing that 500 years ago?</p><p>After Roehn Theer takes care of Nagafen he turns his attention to the Gods of Norrath. While the gods are having a collective panic attack and go into hiding Norrath suffers from their influence waining. By the time Theer and the remaining gods return all life on Norrath has vanished. Anashti Sul is the lone diety with any worshipers left.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And who knows, maybe when we kill Kerafyrm, Rallos Zek's energies might be thrust out of the Swords, and he might return to his seat as the God of War.</p></blockquote><p>What? Why would anyone in their right mind allow him to return to power after he has displayed nothing but arrogance, negligence, and gross incompetence? Great power demands reponsibility, which he has displayed none of.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>Not to mention I don't think whomever takes his spot (hopefully Sullon) would let him just resume his duties.</p>

[Cusashorn]

Well, if RZ does get usurped from his power as a diety, his whole questline will have to be revamped, thats for sure.

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And who knows, maybe when we kill Kerafyrm, Rallos Zek's energies might be thrust out of the Swords, and he might return to his seat as the God of War.</p></blockquote><p>What? Why would anyone in their right mind allow him to return to power after he has displayed nothing but arrogance, negligence, and gross incompetence? Great power demands reponsibility, which he has displayed none of.</p></blockquote><p>Well, it kind of comes with the title to be arrogant.</p><p>Also, I mean. What about his creations? The ogres, orcs, and giants? And yeah, his questline would have to be revamped.</p><p>That, and well. I RP a lot of Rallosians. <_<</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And who knows, maybe when we kill Kerafyrm, Rallos Zek's energies might be thrust out of the Swords, and he might return to his seat as the God of War.</p></blockquote><p>What? Why would anyone in their right mind allow him to return to power after he has displayed nothing but arrogance, negligence, and gross incompetence? Great power demands reponsibility, which he has displayed none of.</p></blockquote><p>Well, it kind of comes with the title to be arrogant.</p><p>Also, I mean. What about his creations? The ogres, orcs, and giants? And yeah, his questline would have to be revamped.</p><p>That, and well. I RP a lot of Rallosians. <_<</p></blockquote><p>Even so..it's obvious that unless Rallos is greatly humbled by this experience, allowing him to continue as he was, with a slap to the wrist would be an irresponsible mistake. Even his children have more respect for all the denizens of war than he himself does.</p><p>He obviously doesn't care about anything except his own power and ego. He's willing to blow the ship and take everyone with him so to speak.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>Other then the questline needing really nothing more then some name changes and the like, I don't see how if one of his kids takes his plae how that would hurt the Rallos creations. many of them already don't worship Rallos alone. many orcs worship Vallon/Tallon/Sullon. and I'm sure a fair share of Giants and Ogres also pay homage to Sullon/Vallon/Tallon as well.</p><p>and the odds on favorite for the new god would be Sullon. and she's got a strong following already in barbarians, and several of the Rygorr. I imagine any Ogre zerker would praise her as well.</p><p>And she'd proabably be a LOT more competent and effective then Rallos. And she proved herself his match as a mortal. I bet she's more then his match as a demi-god, and she'd be a perfect example for a Goddess of War.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Even so..it's obvious that unless Rallos is greatly humbled by this experience, allowing him to continue as he was, with a slap to the wrist would be an irresponsible mistake. Even his children have more respect for all the denizens of war than he himself does.</p><p>He obviously doesn't care about anything except his own power and ego. He's willing to blow the ship and take everyone with him so to speak.</p></blockquote><p>Rallos doesn't care about the opinions of others. What Rallos does care about is *winning*. If Rallos is convinced his plan will succeed he will do anything to make it happen. While other gods plot and debate, he takes action. It is what he does.</p><p>None of the other gods believe he will succeed. This is why Rallos is working alone, and we're being asked to stop him. If we succeed it is possible that one of the other gods will usurp his position and power. It is highly unlikely that a mortal empowered by Rallos would be able to do this though. That almost totally eliminates Sullon from being able to pull off a cue.</p><p>Also unless someone interferes Rallos should be able to rematerialize on his own home plane. That may infact be Norrath if he finishes the ceremony, or in Drunder (or what is left of Drunder on his home plane). It would probably take him a long, long time to rematerialize if he's greatly weakened on Norrath before he is able to escape. Unless some device is used that can kill a god, his existance shouldn't be in question. Nobody knows exactly how Innoruuk managed to kill of Erollisi. He shouldn't of been able to, he needed some kind of device to do it.</p>

[Jait]

<p>What device did Rallos use to kill a member of the Rathe?</p><p>I was under the impression that Gods could only be perma-killed if they manifested on Norrath and were slain there. </p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Jait@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What device did Rallos use to kill a member of the Rathe?</p><p>I was under the impression that Gods could only be perma-killed if they manifested on Norrath and were slain there. </p></blockquote><p>A good old-fashioned guillatine, though it was the ogre army who technically carried out the execution, and it was all 13 of the Rathe Council members while they were on Norrath. It took a while for them to reform in the Plane of Earth, but the Rathe Mountains were created upon he exact location where they were executed.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jait@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What device did Rallos use to kill a member of the Rathe?</p><p>I was under the impression that Gods could only be perma-killed if they manifested on Norrath and were slain there. </p></blockquote><p>A good old-fashioned guillatine, though it was the ogre army who technically carried out the execution, and it was all 13 of the Rathe Council members while they were on Norrath. It took a while for them to reform in the Plane of Earth, but the Rathe Mountains were created upon he exact location where they were executed.</p></blockquote><p>Greatest. Monument. Ever.</p><p>Until the whole curse thing.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jait@Venekor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What device did Rallos use to kill a member of the Rathe?</p><p>I was under the impression that Gods could only be perma-killed if they manifested on Norrath and were slain there. </p></blockquote><p>A good old-fashioned guillatine, though it was the ogre army who technically carried out the execution, and it was all 13 of the Rathe Council members while they were on Norrath. It took a while for them to reform in the Plane of Earth, but the Rathe Mountains were created upon he exact location where they were executed.</p></blockquote><p>And the big point here is that the Rathe Council were able to reform after their execution, eventually. If Rallos wasn't stopped he might of been able to add the Plane of Earth to his own realm before the Rathe Council was able to reform, and possibly usurp their position and the majority of their power. Either way Rallos couldn't prevent them from reforming.</p><p>Mithanial Marr was captured by Cazic Thule, Inny and Terris Thule. They didn't kill him because that would of essentially been the same as releasing him. By keeping him captive they were able to neutralize him. That is the more traditional way for the Norrathian Gods to fight each other in a direct confrontation. Usually most confronations happen through pawns and agents of the dieties.  </p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>People seems to be assuming that Rallos Zek is a short-sighted brute who just wants to kill Kerafyrm without worrying about the consequences. I think this is naive. Rallos wants the god-killing powers of Theer for himself, allowing him to become the ultimate ruler of the gods and ensure his victory over all of creation. He's going after Kerafyrm on his own because he knows that the other gods wouldn't allow him to succeed any other way. He has to work quickly, before Kerafyrm manages to gain control of Theer's power, or else risk being utterly destroyed by the Awakened. Can't really blame him for taking an aggressive approach in this case.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People seems to be assuming that Rallos Zek is a short-sighted brute who just wants to kill Kerafyrm without worrying about the consequences. I think this is naive. Rallos wants the god-killing powers of Theer for himself, allowing him to become the ultimate ruler of the gods and ensure his victory over all of creation. He's going after Kerafyrm on his own because he knows that the other gods wouldn't allow him to succeed any other way. He has to work quickly, before Kerafyrm manages to gain control of Theer's power, or else risk being utterly destroyed by the Awakened. Can't really blame him for taking an aggressive approach in this case.</p></blockquote><p>But that is exactly what he and his creations are...they have shown absolutely no qualities to the contrary. Time and again have they been foiled by their hubris and inability to perceive when enough is enough. He, utilizing his ever present might makes right philosophy, thinks that he can just kill Kerafyrm and take the power from him that way, when in reality it would probably cause reality to implode.</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>Odd, history seems to portray Rallos Zek as an unstoppable force of nature whose armies can only be contained by direct intervention on the part of major deities, often in concert with one another. Short of the elemental gods bestowing a crippling divine curse upon multiple sentient species or the deployment of the genocidal Greenmist, Rallos seems to be pretty well capable of succeeding at whatever he sets out to accomplish. I mean, he IS the god of war, after all. It's what he does. Few beings in the Everquest mythology have had such a profound effect on history as Rallos Zek.</p>

[Cusashorn]

He failed to predict that us mortals would ruin his plans to scorch the surface of Norrath and turn it into a desolate wasteland battleground when we destroyed his Clockwork Behemoth in the Plane of Innovation. He then failed to predict that us mortals would defeat HIM in his own home, and again the Plane of Time. It's true that he and Solusek Ro have been the most ambitious of all the gods, but he's not unstoppable... nor is he a force of nature. Technically war is a mental concept and not a physical presence.. :p

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>Like every other deity in the pantheon failed to predict that we mortals would defeat all of them and eventually release Zeb from his prison? I don't find that citation particularly relevant.</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Like every other deity in the pantheon failed to predict that we mortals would defeat all of them and eventually release Zeb from his prison? I don't find that citation particularly relevant.</p></blockquote><p>Especially since it didn't happen in EQ2's history.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>actually it did. EQ2's history is us winning in PoTime...Eq1 is supposed to be the half the 'coiled in on itself' if I remember right.</p><p>But Yes, Rallos IS a shortsighted brute. he thinks about what he wants, and how to get it, but never plans for anything possibly going wrong, or takes into account any potential outcome that isn't in his favor.</p><p>That's what Prexus warns us about. Rallos is planning to stop Kera through force. if he accidentally kills Kera, or allows Kera to be mortally wounded, there's a good chance a dying Kera will take everything else with him. Rallos can't see that happening, because of his own pride. Heck Rallos isn't even considering the idea that Kera might actually be able to USE his godslaying power. unstable, does not mean unusable....or that Kera wouldn't risk trying it despite the consequences.</p><p>Just like he apparently has no idea that Sullon is NOT happy with the idea of being absorbed, becuase Rallos never thinks that one of his own demigods would question his ideas. especially not the one that almost kicked his rear as a mortal.</p><p>same with losing the battle of defiance. it never occured to Rallos' Avatar of War that plundering the temple of Cazic might you know, p*ss him off. just like it never occured to the Avatar of Flame that setting gnolls of fire might get Brell a little upset.</p><p>Rallos and Sol Ro both suffer this same issue. they plan like 2 steps ahead. and don't plan for the 100 things that can go wrong between steps one and two....especially if there are forces ACTIVELY OPPOSING YOU.</p>

[GorgukGrimmfist]

<p>I think we will be looking at something like a War Council when Rallos is out of the picture.  Sullon is our main ally in the fight against Rallos, but there are 2 other demi god's of war.  I am sure they will want to make a claim, after all they are actually Rallos spawn where Sullon is more of a adopted child.  I can see the Plane of War in perpetual war between the three.  They would constantly be competeing for control of the plane but would occasionally ally to fight a common enemy.</p><p>Basically the enemy of my enemy is my friend (for now) thing.</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>actually it did.</p></blockquote><p>No, actually, it didn't.</p><p><cite>IrishWonder wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>-------------------------------------------------- History of the Age of Destiny - by Shadowreap -------------------------------------------------- How does the world in EQ2 begin? The universe of EQ2 began right when the first guild beat the Plane of Time in the Planes of Power expansion of EQ1. For anyone who ever beat that zone, <strong>you'll rememeber that Druzzil Ro came in right before you freed Zebuxoruk. The Gods had willed that he should not be freed, and in order to stop you Druzzil set back time to before the Plane of Time was invaded</strong>. Unknowingly, this time-split created a dual universe... e.g., the world of Everquest 2. This is basically a tricky way for the developers of EQ1 and EQ2 to keep their games seperate... since they are seperate universes, what happens in EQ1 doesn't happen in EQ2.</p><p>This also means that anything that happened in EQ1 after Planes of Power did NOT happen in the world of Everquest 2! This excludes the Legacy of Ykesha expansion, which came after Planes of Power but BEFORE the Plane of Time was beaten. Anything that happened before Planes of Power is canon in Everquest 2 just as it was in Everquest 1..</p></blockquote><p>Our timeline does not include a successful invasion of the Plane of Time.</p><p>EQ1 is where the defeat of Quarm actually happened and we free Zeb.  In our timeline, Druzzil Ro sent us back in time and the Pantheon made a different choice in response to our invasion of the planes.  This is where the Tome of Destiny begins.  We never made it to PoT.</p>

[Cusashorn]

Just a quick thought here: Wouldn't it be cool if when they finally introduce the final battle with Kerafyrm, that there would actually be a right and wrong way to defeat him? I think it'd be cool if there was a cutscene showing Norrath and the Universe fading into nothing if the raid were to fail. I'd be just that, a cutscene with no actual impact on the game in any way, but it showed that you screwed things up.

[Rainmare]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>actually it did.</p></blockquote><p>No, actually, it didn't.</p><p><cite>IrishWonder wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>-------------------------------------------------- History of the Age of Destiny - by Shadowreap -------------------------------------------------- How does the world in EQ2 begin? The universe of EQ2 began right when the first guild beat the Plane of Time in the Planes of Power expansion of EQ1. For anyone who ever beat that zone, <strong>you'll rememeber that Druzzil Ro came in right before you freed Zebuxoruk. The Gods had willed that he should not be freed, and in order to stop you Druzzil set back time to before the Plane of Time was invaded</strong>. Unknowingly, this time-split created a dual universe... e.g., the world of Everquest 2. This is basically a tricky way for the developers of EQ1 and EQ2 to keep their games seperate... since they are seperate universes, what happens in EQ1 doesn't happen in EQ2.</p><p>This also means that anything that happened in EQ1 after Planes of Power did NOT happen in the world of Everquest 2! This excludes the Legacy of Ykesha expansion, which came after Planes of Power but BEFORE the Plane of Time was beaten. Anything that happened before Planes of Power is canon in Everquest 2 just as it was in Everquest 1..</p></blockquote><p>Our timeline does not include a successful invasion of the Plane of Time.</p><p>EQ1 is where the defeat of Quarm actually happened and we free Zeb.  In our timeline, Druzzil Ro sent us back in time and the Pantheon made a different choice in response to our invasion of the planes.  This is where the Tome of Destiny begins.  We never made it to PoT.</p></blockquote><p>I could swore we were the half  of the 'parchment' that kept going, the symbols changing on it becuase in our universe, Zeb is very much free and on the Isle of Mara. Rather then the half that coiled in on itself e.i druzzil turning back time. in EQ1, I think any time you talk to him he's still in PoTime...maybe out of stasis, but still very much a prisoner.</p>

[Nebbeny]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>actually it did.</p></blockquote><p>No, actually, it didn't.</p><p><cite>IrishWonder wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>-------------------------------------------------- History of the Age of Destiny - by Shadowreap -------------------------------------------------- How does the world in EQ2 begin? The universe of EQ2 began right when the first guild beat the Plane of Time in the Planes of Power expansion of EQ1. For anyone who ever beat that zone, <strong>you'll rememeber that Druzzil Ro came in right before you freed Zebuxoruk. The Gods had willed that he should not be freed, and in order to stop you Druzzil set back time to before the Plane of Time was invaded</strong>. Unknowingly, this time-split created a dual universe... e.g., the world of Everquest 2. This is basically a tricky way for the developers of EQ1 and EQ2 to keep their games seperate... since they are seperate universes, what happens in EQ1 doesn't happen in EQ2.</p><p>This also means that anything that happened in EQ1 after Planes of Power did NOT happen in the world of Everquest 2! This excludes the Legacy of Ykesha expansion, which came after Planes of Power but BEFORE the Plane of Time was beaten. Anything that happened before Planes of Power is canon in Everquest 2 just as it was in Everquest 1..</p></blockquote><p>Our timeline does not include a successful invasion of the Plane of Time.</p><p>EQ1 is where the defeat of Quarm actually happened and we free Zeb.  In our timeline, Druzzil Ro sent us back in time and the Pantheon made a different choice in response to our invasion of the planes.  This is where the Tome of Destiny begins.  We never made it to PoT.</p></blockquote><p>The bit in bold doesn't state which universe is which, just the event that lead to the time split.  I'm fairly sure we're the branch where he was freed, the gods got irritated and left etc.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>I should have highlighted the part about "before Plane of Time was beaten".</p><p>Basically, everything in our Universe, as near as I can tell, is the child of an undefeated Plane of Time.  It's entirely possible Zeb was released from PoT when the Pantheon withdrew from Norrath.</p><p>It's an interesting point that I can't put my finger on a developers interpretation of.</p>

[Arianah]

<p><cite>GorgukGrimmfist wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think we will be looking at something like a War Council when Rallos is out of the picture.  Sullon is our main ally in the fight against Rallos, but there are 2 other demi god's of war.  I am sure they will want to make a claim, after all they are actually Rallos spawn where Sullon is more of a adopted child.  I can see the Plane of War in perpetual war between the three.  They would constantly be competeing for control of the plane but would occasionally ally to fight a common enemy.</p><p>Basically the enemy of my enemy is my friend (for now) thing.</p></blockquote><p>Tallon and Vallon aren't anymore his kin than Sullon. They were orc warriors before they became demi-gods under Rallos Zek.</p><p>From: <a href="http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/news_article.vm?id=50889&month=042008" target="_blank">The Fabled Planes of Power Lore - Part 15 (In regards to Tallon and Vallon)</a></p><p>"When the first Rallosian forces led by the great ogre Murdunk invaded the Plane of Earth, the elder son of Rallos, Eriak - who was said to have instigated Murdunk into invading the planes of power - was forced back to the Plane of War. He was thrown from the plane by the wards of the Council of Rathe who ruled and defended the Plane of Earth. Rallos was not content to wait for Eriak to recuperate and chose to speak directly to a particularly gifted pair of orc warriors by the names of Tallon and Vallon."</p><p>"Rallos tore from him <span style="color: #c0c0c0;">[Eriak] </span>the essence of warfare, tearing it into its more base elements and imbuing them to the two mortals who were able to succeed where Eriak had failed -- Tallon and Vallon."</p><p>Actually, at first I was going to agree with the idea that we were the part of the timeline sent back in time to prevent us from repeating our mistakes, but now I'm pretty sure we are the timeline that wasn't sent back in time. That would explain why the gods withdrew from our world, and why nothing terrible happened in EQ1 until Mata Muram found the weakness in the fabric of time and exploited it.</p><p>From: <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=list&type=website&id=3" target="_blank">Tome of Destiny</a> || <a href="http://www.lorelibrary.com/?page=website&wid=1" target="_blank">Chapter I - The Council of the Gods</a></p><p>"She scowled and shook her head. 'That is your influence at work, Rallos. It was only when they breached the Planes of Power that you lost the delight you had taken in their growing viciousness.'"</p><p>I believe these were the first stories to be released for the world of EverQuest II. When Tunare refers to our breach of the Planes of Power, that pretty much confirms that we're in the timeline that wasn't sent back in time.</p><p>From: <a href="http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/news_article.vm?id=51120&month=092008" target="_blank">Seeds of Destruction: Unfolding the Lore - Part 1 (EQ1)</a></p><p>"During the events of the Gates of Discord and Omens of War expansions, the forces of Discord poured through a portal into Norrath. The first invasion, headed by the overlord Mata Muram, was turned away by the combined forces of the heroes of Norrath. However, Mata Muram's forces were only a portion of the greater armies of Discord. These forces all worshiped a dark god of the discordant pantheon.This dark god was infuriated by Mata Muram's failure but was also intrigued with the power that was able to repel the Muramite forces. While investigating Norrath the dark god became aware of the small weakness that Druzzil Ro had created in the timeweave and made plans to exploit it. The weakness in the weave allowed the dark god a limited access to the history of Norrath. He then sent agents to key points in Norrathian history to hamstring the development of Norrath and ensure an easy victory for his armies.The dark god's meddling with the timeline did not go unnoticed. The inhabitants of the Plane of Time were immediately aware of something manipulating the continuity of Norrath. Rifts began to open in the plane. One such rift leads to the end of time where the shards of the world of Norrath float silently in space which foretells a horrible catastrophe."</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Breaching the Planes does not mean defeating Quarm.  It simply means we gained access to the lesser Planes, for instance Innovation or Halls of Honor.</p><p>It's an interesting distinction that I am not sure has been commented on by a developer.</p>

[Arianah]

<p>Hmm you could be right. I'm all confused. I'm going to try and keep digging through what I have...</p>

[GorgukGrimmfist]

<p><cite>Kairah@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tallon and Vallon aren't anymore his kin than Sullon. They were orc warriors before they became demi-gods under Rallos Zek.</p></blockquote><p>Even so I still would be disappointed if the other children gave it right to Sullon without even putting up a fight.  It seems to me its in their nature to fight for it.   </p>

[Arianah]

<p>Okay, while searching for more information, I found the in-game dialogue of when you defeat Quarm.</p><p>From: <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=4552" target="_blank">Plane of Time</a></p><p>"Druzzil Ro speaks to your mind, 'Zebuxoruk, my student I cannot allow this to happen. If you were to escape from another prison the will and power of the gods will have been compromised.' Zebuxoruk says, 'Druzzil, I have missed you. Wasn't it you that taught me in your own realm to seek knowledge and share it in all forms?' Druzzil Ro speaks to your mind, 'That I did, but I also taught you not to share your wealth of knowledge if it would affect the fate of others. I cannot allow this to happen. I must set things back to how they were before you and these mortals arrived here, I believe that you cannot understand this and I am sorry.'</p><p>Druzzil Ro looks upon Zebuxoruk one last time, as a wave of sadness comes across her gentle face."</p><p>...</p><p>"There is a brilliant flash and you find yourself displaced through time and space. For a moment you lose touch with yourself. As you wake, you find yourself back in the Plane of Knowledge, moments after talking to Maelin with the information of retrieving the Quintessence of Elements. Druzzil has preserved the timeline, and restored existence back to its normalcy."</p><p>That's the story for EQ1, and they continue from there. So that means we're the other timeline, in which we weren't sent back to before we killed Quarm.</p>

[Cusashorn]

Lets see. I know there's a developer response somewhere on these boards where it was stated which one actually happened. He was correcting myself on what i said, because I had the two switched around. I just wish I could find that post, but I don't even know where to begin for search parameters. Anyways, if I got this right, i do believe that in EQ2's timeline, us adventurers never got to the Plane of Time to begin with. The stable time loop happens in EQlive because that's where it happened, but I think that EQ2 diverged at a point where adventurers never even reached the Plane of Time in the first place.

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Kerafrym tricks roehn theer, he escapes from the void where hes been imprisoned for a long time - the avatars flee, cause roehn theer is coming back.</p><p>we defeat theer - kerafrym shows up, shows he tricked everyone, so he could get the swords from theer - these swords are the things that hold the balance.</p><p>he can own them - but cannot control them.</p><p>the gods taking thier time to deal with keraphym, rallos zek gets impatient and deciedes to do it on his own.</p><p>he cant do this, as fighting him is pretty much the destruction of everything, but he blindly rushs off to raise a army to face kerfym - that being the kromzek. drundr comes as part of trying to raise this army.</p><p>the plane of war is when we basically are heading off to try and stop rallos zek, from facing kerafrym?</p><p>this is kinda a mix up of what I remember from many quests and things like the cut scene when you kill 4RT. but am I atleast kinda close?</p></blockquote><p>We did the unmyth to see if we could pull power from a mythical weapon so that kerafyrm could drain the twin swords of theer. We did his research for him, the bum.</p><p>Also, lol lucan didn't want soulfire back after it was drained.</p>

[Arianah]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Lets see. I know there's a developer response somewhere on these boards where it was stated which one actually happened. He was correcting myself on what i said, because I had the two switched around. I just wish I could find that post, but I don't even know where to begin for search parameters. Anyways, if I got this right, i do believe that in EQ2's timeline, us adventurers never got to the Plane of Time to begin with. The stable time loop happens in EQlive because that's where it happened, but I think that EQ2 diverged at a point where adventurers never even reached the Plane of Time in the first place.</blockquote><p>Hmm. But then that leaves both EQ1 and EQ2 in the same place at that point. Neither of them would have reached the Plane of Time. And then I wonder, why the gods left Norrath in our reality, and not in theirs? They were mad at our breach of the Planes of Power in both realities.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Kairah@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Lets see. I know there's a developer response somewhere on these boards where it was stated which one actually happened. He was correcting myself on what i said, because I had the two switched around. I just wish I could find that post, but I don't even know where to begin for search parameters. Anyways, if I got this right, i do believe that in EQ2's timeline, us adventurers never got to the Plane of Time to begin with. The stable time loop happens in EQlive because that's where it happened, but I think that EQ2 diverged at a point where adventurers never even reached the Plane of Time in the first place.</blockquote><p>Hmm. But then that leaves both EQ1 and EQ2 in the same place at that point. Neither of them would have reached the Plane of Time. And then I wonder, why the gods left Norrath in our reality, and not in theirs? They were mad at our breach of the Planes of Power in both realities.</p></blockquote><p>That's part of the confusion created by time paradoxes. There is a fundamental difference between the timelines.</p><p>One timeline reaches the Plane of Time, only to forever be sent back in time to a point where they were just about to enter. The gods were defeated, yet at the same time they never were, and this lead them to become very angry and withdraw their protection from Norrath, which opened up Norrath to the invading forces of discord.</p><p>The Plane of Time happened because it <em>didn't</em> happen. It's very confusing, but thats how paradoxes work.</p><p>The other timeline never reached it in the first place BECAUSE of the time loop, leading the gods to come to a council and decide to withdraw themselves to heal up because the adventurers were still ravaging their planes, and allowing them to cut off access to them before the adventurers could get to the Plane of Time.</p><p>The Gods withdrawing unintentionally caused the Rending for some reason or another, but the difference between the rending happening and the forces of discord happening is that with Discord, the gods INTENTIONALLY stopped protecting Norrath out of spite, where-as with the rending, they merely withdrew their presence while still looking over it for the most part.</p>

[Arianah]

<p>Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but the gods didn't retreat from Norrath EQ1. The discussion that takes place between the gods in the EQ1 Plane of Time dialogue technically never happened, because Druzzil Ro rewound Norrath's history before they made it into Plane of Time. I continued to play EQ1 up to Secrets of Faydwer before comitting to EQ2, and there was no lore of the gods leaving Norrath, and everyone was still able to worship their deities.</p><p>Norrath was invaded by the forces of discord because Mata Muram found the weakness in the fabric of time that Druzzil Ro created when she sent everyone back to a time before they entered the Plane of Time.</p><p>If I'm understanding the EQ1:Seeds of Destruction background story correctly, Mata Muram used this weakness to access parts of Norrath's history to impede the development of Norrath to ensure an easy victory over (at the time) present time Norrathians.</p>

[Cusashorn]

Ahh is that how it happened? I knew that the gods were the ones responsible for keeping the discord forces back, but I didn't know about that exploit.

[Rainmare]

<p>yeah in Seeds of Destruction, the forces of Discord use the weakened fabric of time created by Druzzil's paradox to hit specific points in time. like the Iksar/dragon war in Kunark...the founding of Qeynos...things like that. the idea is if the dragons win that war, the Iksar won't be around in the future. no Qeynos, weakens the races unifying, not to mention the Erudites wouldn't exist, as they were from Qeynos(oceangreen) originally. I think they also try to stop the elves from migrating to Faydwer, and they try to destroy/stop Freeport from forming. basically any major historical event that would kill or cripple a player race if it went the other way in history gets assaulted to turn the tide against them.</p><p>though that wasn't Mata Muram that time. Mata used a similar exploit, but he basically noticed the weakening in the fabric of reality...not Why it was weaker...and tried that..after we kick his tail, his patron deity in the Discord Pantheon, while p*ssed, takes a closer look and notes that the weakeness stemmed from the time paradox, and attacks that directly.</p>

[Arianah]

<p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>though that wasn't Mata Muram that time. Mata used a similar exploit, but he basically noticed the weakening in the fabric of reality...not Why it was weaker...and tried that..after we kick his tail, his patron deity in the Discord Pantheon, while p*ssed, takes a closer look and notes that the weakeness stemmed from the time paradox, and attacks that directly.</p></blockquote><p>Ah yeah, my bad, the dark god didn't have a name in the background story so it was easy to overlook and I had quit before that expansion came out lol. Thank you for the correction <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>