Disable smite wrath, why?

[Rick777]

<p>I've been playing my Templar from launch and throughout the years they have been fairly balanced as the low dps but better healer to their counterpart the inquisitor. For the record I also have a maxxed out inquisitor so can directly compare them both at end game. Now fast forward to the present. I don't want to start a debate on Templar heals versus inq heals, raid viability or even the lack of group cures. But the game has changed quite a bit and in many regards DPS has become a major focus. I'd like to ask is there any use to disable smit wrath? As an inquisitor I have absolutely no detriment to my dps if I cast a heal, but as a Templar if I cast any heal or cure my spell dps gets temporarily disabled by 25%. Keeping in mind how far inq have been brought along and have even exceeded the Templar in defensive activities while at the same time providing offensive prowess to the entire group and parsing well themselves. I don't think it's asking too much to simply get rid of disable smite wraths.</p>

[Tekadeo]

<p>+1 to this and them some, Templar group/raid viability has gone down considerably lately</p>

[drakkenshie]

<p>Agree.</p><p>We also have a cleric AA tree with heavy melee support, but poor melee choices, unlike other healers.</p><p>Basically over the last two years the other healers have been boosted. Three of them can do good DPS while healing about as good as we can, at the same time.</p><p>We need an AA caster->melee conversion tree like Mystic has. That would fix a lot of our issues right there, and disabling smite wrath just needs to go away.</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>drakkenshield wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Agree.</p><p>We also have a cleric AA tree with heavy melee support, but poor melee choices, unlike other healers.</p><p>Basically over the last two years the other healers have been boosted. Three of them can do good DPS while healing about as good as we can, at the same time.</p><p>We need an AA caster->melee conversion tree like Mystic has. That would fix a lot of our issues right there, and disabling smite wrath just needs to go away.</p></blockquote><p>Yes this, or IMO we should just be completely spell casting oriented, scrap all the melee bonuses.  This would help to further differentiate us from inquisitors.</p>

[drakkenshie]

<p><cite>Rick777 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>drakkenshield wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Agree.</p><p>We also have a cleric AA tree with heavy melee support, but poor melee choices, unlike other healers.</p><p>Basically over the last two years the other healers have been boosted. Three of them can do good DPS while healing about as good as we can, at the same time.</p><p>We need an AA caster->melee conversion tree like Mystic has. That would fix a lot of our issues right there, and disabling smite wrath just needs to go away.</p></blockquote><p>Yes this, or IMO we should just be completely spell casting oriented, scrap all the melee bonuses.  This would help to further differentiate us from inquisitors.</p></blockquote><p>Personally, I rather have melee. Templar is a heavy fighter wearing plate that heals and we carry hammer and a shield. Making us a caster really doesn't make a lot of sense if you think about it.</p><p>However, fixing it either way is an improvement over what we have now.</p><p>Its just a bit unfair that the other healers got their heals boosted to compete with us, but we didn't get DPS to compete with them.</p><p>It would be better to have things differentiated, but SoE abandoned that as soon as they made druids power healers and other class changes, so the cat is basically out of the bag anyway.</p>

[Dekedar]

<p>I'd prefer melee as well, always have.</p>

[Arabani]

<p>I have no desire to mele, templars are casters. But get rid of disable smite wrath seems good</p>

[bigmamma]

<p>Disabling Smite Wrath is definatly a start..</p><p>However, I must say that I do not go down the smites line in Templar tree for raid/group heal spec in which case smite wrath is never an issue for me either way.</p><p>All in all, Templars do suck bigtime at DPS and even in my pure awsomeness DPS solo AA spec I can barely push 20K DPS on a heroic training dummy. Yes, in solo I do use the smite line + smite wrath.</p><p>In raids, I'm lucky to catch Dirge VC etc that puts me at 20-25K DPS while I see Fury's do 120K+ DPS, mystics at 100K+.</p><p>I'm not asking for 100K+ DPS'ing Templars, but 20K seems more and more like a joke really. Why the f... do I even bother hitting auto-attack aynmore <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Edit: Unswerving Hammer --> Remove the duration from it completely. The reuse time and DPS of this thing is bad enough as it is that makes it even worse then completely useless.</p>

[drakkenshie]

<p><cite>bigmamma wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Disabling Smite Wrath is definatly a start..</p><p>However, I must say that I do not go down the smites line in Templar tree for raid/group heal spec in which case smite wrath is never an issue for me either way.</p><p>All in all, Templars do [Removed for Content] bigtime at DPS and even in my pure awsomeness DPS solo AA spec I can barely push 20K DPS on a heroic training dummy. Yes, in solo I do use the smite line + smite wrath.</p><p>In raids, I'm lucky to catch Dirge VC etc that puts me at 20-25K DPS while I see Fury's do 120K+ DPS, mystics at 100K+.</p><p>I'm not asking for 100K+ DPS'ing Templars, but 20K seems more and more like a joke really. Why the f... do I even bother hitting auto-attack aynmore <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Edit: Unswerving Hammer --> Remove the duration from it completely. The reuse time and DPS of this thing is bad enough as it is that makes it even worse then completely useless.</p></blockquote><p>Yea, we definitely need some work.</p><p>My view is basically that the other healers can heal pretty well, about as good as we can except for certain situations, but we don't get their DPS.</p><p>In other words, if a warden can heal 80% as well as a templar (or whatever the reality is), then why can't we DPS 80% as well as they can?</p><p>They have homogenized things a lot anyway, and it would make it more fun without having a huge effect... the DPS classes are still well above all healers.</p><p>As far as templar being a caster goes, that will never make any sense to me. I realize heals in the game are basically casting... but the rest... honestly, casting offensive spells when you are a plate wearing heavy fighter with a shield and hammer? Silly...</p><p>Besides that, it simply doesn't match our AA trees. They aren't in sync with each other.</p>

[bigmamma]

<p>It matches Inquisitors mostly, which is good for them.</p><p>If the Cleric AA's were all about casting stuff, you'd make whole lot of Inquisitors angry, who btw are also doin 120K+ DPS..</p><p>I have no issues with Templars beeing spell casters, it's been that way from day 1 and I'm fine with that no matter if we do wear plate or what not.</p><p>However, this brings me to a whole other side of this that I might as well rant out. Templars ARE spell casters for primary DPS, we can do melee auto attacks sure, but not for anymore then 4-6K DPS as oppose to other classes doin a freaking lots more then that.</p><p>Total brainstorm here: Heal are spells too !!! Woohoo, gee wiz. That means that we can either do DPS or we can heal, not both... I'm still refering to raids here, as that is what I mostly do. If other classes get the perk of doin DPS WHILE healing and we don't, we better get some nice lovin to our spell soon.</p><p>Doubling our spell damage output is not too much if you ask me, that puts us at about 40K DPS with other healers still doin 100-120K+ DPS ...</p><p>Removing the disable from Smite Wrath is only the beginning, it is FAR from enough...</p>

[Arabani]

<p>Seems you have no idea on what actually templar is capable. Templar is very powerfull class <span >with the highest capacity to heal and reduce damage, with best </span><span >defensive tools and utility. Templar is only class in game who can solo heal a tank in most HM fights. Raid dps is all about buffs and group setup. I usualy have near 60k in mt group, my highest was 110k. I'm prety sure i can do more in dps group. I agree we can't dps while healing, but show me a priest, exept a fury and a defiler, who can do 30k+ while they are REALY healing.  Get more gear, get proper spec, addorns, war runes and you will not have any problems soloing on a templar. Yes,sure, i want get rid of disable smite wrath, i want that new exorcise pulsing aoe just reduce healing, not totaly block it. I want it  because then i can solo old raids, old and new heroic zones x2 faster, i will finaly able to solo farm nameds in KD contested. Is not it will be too much op?<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </span></p><p><span >And again, i don't want to dps..i like to heal, i'm happy with my tank healer role.</span></p>

[bigmamma]

<p>Maybe it was a bit over the top, but I still stand by my statement.</p><p>Even so, I'm not specced for Smite Wrath during raids as I tended to go for a pure heal based setup, so that fact matters little to me. Maybe that's also why I do not do extensive DPS in raids. Are you saying that other classes raiding are specced for DPS as they do top notch damage ?? Are YOU DPS specced when raiding ?</p><p>Templars are not overpowered in solo combat, giving us more DPS or even something as simple as removing the disable on smite wrath (perhaps in offensive stance only), would be very nice. I hate the fact that I have to choose between curing or loosing 25% DPS for 15 seconds or so. Our heals are allready nerfed in offensive stance, why do we need a hit to DPS in offensive stance as well ??</p><p>To answer your question, Yes I've seen other priests doin 80-140K DPS WHILE doin 7-8K HPS as well .. Mystics and Furies in particular. I can understand why Furies can do that, but mystics who allready have the huge benefits of casting kick-azz wards all around them... ?</p><p>It's not like I'm asking for a 2'nd group cure here. That I can totally understand why we don't get even though I would absolutely LOVE to have it  ...</p><p>Anyways, remove disable from Smite Wrath in Offensive Stance only, let it disable in heal stance as it does not too ..</p>

[Arabani]

<p>I have only one all round spec. Yes, i have full Smite line, Litany,Oh arms, Strike of archbishop, Retribution, most posible dps aa from koS(cleric) tree. I have 31.5 spell MA, i'm using heal stance only in hm foundation and some drunder encounters.</p><p>Btw, what for you want more dps? Soloing on a templar should be less painfull for undergeared ppl with new wis line.</p>

[bigmamma]

<p>I simply cannot follow you there, what's good about the new wisdom line ??</p><p>Can you link me your AA setup ? I'd love to see that.. If I can make that work for me that'd be awesome.</p><p>Alot of times though, I get put in MT group with a warden. people might argur that it's wrong setup bla bla bla and I don't really care. It makes me work and to actually do something besides feel like hogging a raidspot doin nothing for DPS or support. That's why I'm specced for pure and pure heals ..</p><p>We're not raiding hardcore quite yet, still building a raid force.</p>

[Arabani]

<p>With my curent stats new wis line will give me:</p><p>1. Around 2-4k aditional damage on every nuke or mele hit.</p><p>2. Around 20k puslsing aoe every 6 sec.</p><p>3. A bit increase of minimal spells damage, if i'll reach a skills cap.</p><p>4. Aditional encounter nuke every 23 sec with caped reuse<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Not sure if it's legal to post an aa calculator link here, but i'll change it after gu anyway. Also there are not so many "pure heals" in ours AA.  I don't see a point spending aa in restoration, or focused intervention enchance. Or take protective prayer and secular protection from shadow tree, like most ppl do.</p><p><span >We're not raiding hardcore quite yet, still building a raid force.</span></p><p>Ye, no raid gear is you main problem, i guess. Again, i have no problem soloing since i joined my guild during EoF <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> But i can understand, it's not easy for non geared templars( or healers at all). While i agree, that most ppl don't have accese to top end raid gear and sometimes need help even for solo quests, i don't want that templars will be super dps buffed, it will be too much op for a few raid geared templas.</p><p>Thats why new wis line is great, mb remove disable smite wrath too, but not more.</p>

[Rick777]

<p><cite>Arabani wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have only one all round spec. Yes, i have full Smite line, Litany,Oh arms, Strike of archbishop, Retribution, most posible dps aa from koS(cleric) tree. I have 31.5 spell MA, i'm using heal stance only in hm foundation and some drunder encounters.</p><p>Btw, what for you want more dps? Soloing on a templar should be less painfull for undergeared ppl with new wis line.</p></blockquote><p>I don't think the issue is soloing, although that is another great reason to get rid of disable smite wrath.  But I did not open this topic because of soloing, I opened it because it is quite obviouis that disable smite wrath is completely unnecessary and not justifiable.  It's a remant of a time when inquisitors were supposed to be just ok healers but have very good dps potential, and alternatively templars were supposed to be much stronger healers with almost no dps potential.  We haven't lived in that universe for a LONG time, but the more recent super beefing up of inquisitors from a healing (and curing) point of view without giving Templars some dps potential really brings out this dichotomy, or lack of it.</p><p>Now I'm not talking about any other DPS, I'm not talking about melee versus spell, I'm not even talking about healing and curing.  I'm simply saying one thing, please get rid of disable smite wrath, it's something that serves no purpose anymore.  We can have the other discussions after that or in another thread, but I'd like to focus on disable smite wrath.</p><p>I would love it if a Dev came on here (lol yeah I know, fat chance) and commented on why Templars need the disabling of our dps if we heal or cure, why this makes sense when every other healer can heal just as well, and better in some cases when we add cures to the mix, but yet most other healers bring dps potential to the table as well.</p>