GU61 - Perfect Opportunity to Show Troubadors Some Love [Archive]

tfetterman

07-19-2011, 05:14 PM

I'm not going to beat this subject to death. There are countless threads about how the general consenus is that troubadors need some attention. Most of all how the mythical proc is significantly weakened in comparison to dirges with critical chance being so abundant and MA making the dirge proc multiple times more powerful.I'm asking SOE to recognize this need and spend some time on them. They did it with SKs back in TSO, it's now rightfully the troubadors turn! GU61 is a great opportunity to address this!

Katanalla

07-19-2011, 11:37 PM

tbh they really need to boost troubs, and nerf that dirge mythical. Dirge auto attack is absurd end game.

Raahl

07-20-2011, 11:16 AM

<cite>Katanallama@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>tbh they really need to boost troubs, and nerf that dirge mythical. Dirge auto attack is absurd end game.</blockquote>IMO you are only half right.Troubadors need a boost, this cannot be doubted. Leave the Dirge Mythical alone. Dirges cannot help it that Sony made Dirges DPS almost entirely from Auto Attack. I'd support a potential AA reduction if a corresponding and equal increase in CA damage was included.How does nerfing another class make playing a Troubador fun? It would only serve to make players of the nerfed class as unhappy as the troubadors seem to be.

tfetterman

07-20-2011, 05:54 PM

I want to make this perfectly clear. This post is not an effort to get dirges nerfed. If you feel that you need to comment on that, please find another string to post on. I just want to keep this strictly to improving the troubador and keeping SOE well aware that they have the perfect opportunity to make it happen.

tfetterman

07-20-2011, 07:02 PM

Bump

tfetterman

07-21-2011, 03:13 AM

bump

Brienae

07-21-2011, 01:06 PM

I think our mythical should be buffed to around equal power as the dirge's. Not sure right now what I would reccomend to accomplish this... but I hope there is still enough of a community to be heard without simply bumping the thread... if there is so few of us left... then that should be sign.

thewarriorpoet

07-21-2011, 02:55 PM

I think that's a right brilliant idea...upping the trouby epic to be on par with dirge. I betrayed to dirge because I couldn't solo as well or get groups more easily as a dirge.

Tigress

07-21-2011, 04:01 PM

<cite>Brienae@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think our mythical should be buffed to around equal power as the dirge's. Not sure right now what I would reccomend to accomplish this... but I hope there is still enough of a community to be heard without simply bumping the thread... if there is so few of us left... then that should be sign.</blockquote>yes i agree. its pretty rare to see a troubador around. i have one, i call her "weakador". she's stuck permanently in her mid 30s. i know, not as bad as the 90s but she is 90 armorer so i cannot delete. it's just not fun playing so her adventure level will never grow, without changes. they need something, even at the lower levels, bc you cannot solo and arent much help in groups.

Netty

07-22-2011, 02:17 AM

Higher casting speed on most spells and spell MA should fix alot about the troub class. Missing out on buffing UT on yourself Is crap imo since most stuff feels like it takes ages to cast. Even healers have alot of spell MA atm so i dont see why a troub shouldent get some. Its not like the troub spells hit as hard as wizard spell so it would be no where near OP with some %ish of those

Laiina

07-22-2011, 03:45 AM

Nerfing Dirges will not help Troubs, but Troubs for sure need some help. Even in full raid gear, my troub does less dps than many healers.

Notes

07-22-2011, 12:23 PM

<cite>Laiina wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nerfing Dirges will not help Troubs, but Troubs for sure need some help. Even in full raid gear, my troub does less dps than many healers.</blockquote>This is really a funny comment. I am not even in full raid gear. Still missing a neck/hat/chest for EM Raid gear. I am easily averaging 50K+ zone wide on EM. Healers are not surpassing me. Troubs are probably one of the hardest classes to play in eq2, there is no easy mode for them, unless you just sit back, hit buttons and cast JCAP and PotM. Then you can parse 25-30k all the time.Playing a troub takes time on training dummies, reading what each spell/CA does and figuring out the perfect casting order that fits your play. That being said, troubs are in DIRE need of work than any class out there right now.I mean Raxxl's buffs INT+WIS still, Breathtaking Bellow what a useless spell, We don't buff ourselves at all. Allegretto sucks and is useless with the illy haste and CoB. Alin's Serene Serenade does alot for the group but nothing for the troub.Lastly when DoV first came out our charm and mezz worked on mobs, then that got fixed and it came back off my hot bar. These are issues that I can think of just off the top of my head while sitting her typing.There are alot of other issues that need to be looked at for AAs, but I will wait until the AA changes hit test to comment on them.But healers do not out dps us.Noets

Lempo

07-22-2011, 12:32 PM

<cite>Tigress wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brienae@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think our mythical should be buffed to around equal power as the dirge's. Not sure right now what I would reccomend to accomplish this... but I hope there is still enough of a community to be heard without simply bumping the thread... if there is so few of us left... then that should be sign.</blockquote>yes i agree. its pretty rare to see a troubador around. i have one, i call her "weakador". she's stuck permanently in her mid 30s. i know, not as bad as the 90s but she is 90 armorer so i cannot delete. it's just not fun playing so her adventure level will never grow, without changes. they need something, even at the lower levels, bc you cannot solo and arent much help in groups.</blockquote>lolYou are doing it wrong.

Lempo

07-22-2011, 12:55 PM

<cite>Notes wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Laiina wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nerfing Dirges will not help Troubs, but Troubs for sure need some help. Even in full raid gear, my troub does less dps than many healers.</blockquote>This is really a funny comment. I am not even in full raid gear. Still missing a neck/hat/chest for EM Raid gear. I am easily averaging 50K+ zone wide on EM. Healers are not surpassing me. Troubs are probably one of the hardest classes to play in eq2, there is no easy mode for them, unless you just sit back, hit buttons and cast JCAP and PotM. Then you can parse 25-30k all the time.Playing a troub takes time on training dummies, reading what each spell/CA does and figuring out the perfect casting order that fits your play. That being said, troubs are in DIRE need of work than any class out there right now.I mean Raxxl's buffs INT+WIS still, Breathtaking Bellow what a useless spell, We don't buff ourselves at all. Allegretto sucks and is useless with the illy haste and CoB. Alin's Serene Serenade does alot for the group but nothing for the troub.Lastly when DoV first came out our charm and mezz worked on mobs, then that got fixed and it came back off my hot bar. These are issues that I can think of just off the top of my head while sitting her typing.There are alot of other issues that need to be looked at for AAs, but I will wait until the AA changes hit test to comment on them.But healers do not out dps us.Noets</blockquote>As a warlock I support the fact that troubs need some love, it does need to meTroubadors are and always have been intended as a utility class, they add a lot to a group, more than any other class, they increase spell range, boost damage output, decrease hate gain on a groupwide basis, they have power regen and CC and both are pretty good though the CC has issues. As Notes stated they can do some good DPS but it is not an easy button and there are not really a lot of great resources with good current info on troubs. The troub in my raid group can solo a lot of tnings does 70K or so DPS which he is missing a EM BP and head which both should easily add 10K or better.I hope the new AA's give them some good things, but you have to keep in mind that DPS wise a class that adds the amount of DPS to a group that they do is not going to be doing a lot themselves and remember once again that they are not easy to play by far, unless you want to just AF and click PoTM and VC+DD here and there.

Raahl

07-23-2011, 03:35 AM

<cite>tfetterman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I want to make this perfectly clear. This post is not an effort to get dirges nerfed. If you feel that you need to comment on that, please find another string to post on. I just want to keep this strictly to improving the troubador and keeping SOE well aware that they have the perfect opportunity to make it happen.</blockquote>Thanks you for making it clear. I've just seen too many people who moan on and on how overpowered they think a class is just because it's different and not as broken as their class.Really I think the issue with troubadors lies with their abilities and what groups they are tailored to. Troubadors are mostly put into caster groups to maximize the groups DPS. While Troubadors do have a lot of spells, they still have to rely on melee to bring in some damage. And with the group being a caster one, melee buffs are few and far between.The solution: It would be my suggestion that they increase the power of the Troubadors spells along with revamping their mythical to offer a increase to their spell damage. The change to the mythical should be on par with that of the dirges mythical.To me the Troubador should be a spellcasting force. Where a Dirge is more the type to get up close and get bloody.

tfetterman

07-25-2011, 12:31 AM

Bump, to keep this on the Recent Topics list.

tfetterman

07-25-2011, 06:16 AM

Bump

Brienae

07-25-2011, 03:56 PM

Maybe our myth buff could proc an effect similar to the dirges Intrepid strike but Max spell damage instead of max Melee? That might help lessen the gap some with out taking away the uniqueness. Hopefully someone else has ideas which we can discuss.

tfetterman

07-25-2011, 05:27 PM

Our discussion about ideas really are irrelevant. The devs will do what they see fit. They should know what the issues are by now. I just want to make it fresh in their minds that it needs to be done.

Brienae

07-25-2011, 06:05 PM

Our discussions may be irrevalant but I think if we're saying something that looks better than bumping. I don't mean any offense but I'm hoping we can show them we exist and keep this up with out just bumping.

tfetterman

07-25-2011, 07:37 PM

That's the main problem though. We don't exist. There aren't many that play a troub because of how badly their mechanics are currently. I'm sure that will get SOE's attention more than anything. I do agree though that bumping isn't the way I'd like to keep this topic fresh.

Brienae

07-25-2011, 08:43 PM

Only solution I can think of to keep this thread up is to banter ideas back and forth. Even if there's only two of doing it. It will be an active thread. Sure they know the issues but tossing some ideas around can't hurt.Ideas I have:1 Buff our myth buff to be in line with dirges Do Not nerf the dirge myth buff to be in line with ours2 Possibly make all of our abiltities range capable. By this I mean allow all of our combat arts to be ranged abilities. This way we can stay with the casters we buff and use all of our abilities.Those are the only two I can think of currently. Any ideas pertaining to one can still be discussed and I'm willing to listen to opinions on 2. Also any other ideas would be great. As I said going ahead and bantering ideas can't hurt.

tfetterman

07-25-2011, 10:02 PM

<cite>Brienae@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Only solution I can think of to keep this thread up is to banter ideas back and forth. Even if there's only two of doing it. It will be an active thread. Sure they know the issues but tossing some ideas around can't hurt.Ideas I have:1 Buff our myth buff to be in line with dirges Do Not nerf the dirge myth buff to be in line with ours2 Possibly make all of our abiltities range capable. By this I mean allow all of our combat arts to be ranged abilities. This way we can stay with the casters we buff and use all of our abilities.Those are the only two I can think of currently. Any ideas pertaining to one can still be discussed and I'm willing to listen to opinions on 2. Also any other ideas would be great. As I said going ahead and bantering ideas can't hurt.</blockquote>There is absolutely no need for you to stay back with the casters on a regular basis. If you have a good healer, they will make sure you are in range of their heals. They should split the difference between you and the casters. Further, casters get within melee range now to use their big spells now. Your range buff will take care of the casters when you are in and they are out. You lose all kinds of dps by ranging. Adding range to some of our spells will make it better, but you still should be in. The uncapped MA demands it!I think that max spell damage on all magic damage to include all procs both from you and the rest of your raid/group will be a step in the right direction. Taking the cap off of haste is going to be a good thing it will help us rack up on flury, so we already have help there. Adding agility and stamina and removing the worthless mitigation on Raxxyl's Rousing Tune sounds like a good benefit.They are redoing the troubador tree, so now we won't have to waste 20 points to get harmonization, unless they still set the tree up wrong and assume worthless choices aren't really useless. I also think that the health added to Rejuvenating Concerto should probably be doubled along with the worthless regeneration added to each tick. It isn't nearly enough with the current health stats exploding as they have.

Netty

07-26-2011, 01:22 AM

Alot more casting speed is needed for the troub class. And spell MA maybe some boost in spell damage aswell. Dirges gets AA that increas the casting speed of their spells yet troubs dont? all should be faster really if they gona keep being on the damage they are atm. The myth proc can easy be changed to 15-20% spell MA insted of the crit proc. That should really make up for alot imo.

tfetterman

07-26-2011, 02:41 AM

<cite>Netty wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alot more casting speed is needed for the troub class. And spell MA maybe some boost in spell damage aswell. Dirges gets AA that increas the casting speed of their spells yet troubs dont? all should be faster really if they gona keep being on the damage they are atm. The myth proc can easy be changed to 15-20% spell MA insted of the crit proc. That should really make up for alot imo.</blockquote>You can cap yourself out on casting speed with the right AA spec and a couple adorns. Casting speed isn't the issue. Spell MA really won't be nearly as significant as max spell damage on all magic items. Those ideas really aren't going to improve anything. Thanks for the input though. After some thought, I'm willing to ask that they make the dirge proc a bard proc. Why not? We are both scouts, and the gear we get supports melee rather than spells.

Netty

07-26-2011, 04:02 AM

<cite>tfetterman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Netty wrote:</cite><blockquote>Alot more casting speed is needed for the troub class. And spell MA maybe some boost in spell damage aswell. Dirges gets AA that increas the casting speed of their spells yet troubs dont? all should be faster really if they gona keep being on the damage they are atm. The myth proc can easy be changed to 15-20% spell MA insted of the crit proc. That should really make up for alot imo.</blockquote>You can cap yourself out on casting speed with the right AA spec and a couple adorns. Casting speed isn't the issue. Spell MA really won't be nearly as significant as max spell damage on all magic items. Those ideas really aren't going to improve anything. Thanks for the input though. After some thought, I'm willing to ask that they make the dirge proc a bard proc. Why not? We are both scouts, and the gear we get supports melee rather than spells.</blockquote>Really then can you pls explain to me how to cap yourself in casting speed? And for that why would you waste red or yellow slots on casting speed... White... well i bet you there are better options. Face it man some of the troub spells need to be faster casting really. If you are saying that spell MA and more casting speed arnt gona improve anything i have to ask are we playing the same game? Note that i dident say that this will put us on pair with the dirge class. It will just help alot.

tfetterman

07-26-2011, 09:05 AM

Bump

ZUES

07-26-2011, 10:10 AM

Troubs are fine. Once 90/300 their just as viable as a dirge. Bards are so AA and gear dependant its pathetic! But troubs... their autoattack is right on par with a dirge! Their nukes on the other hand dont coincide with scout gear. They need more casting speed and other mage stats. That comes at a small cost to autoattack damage.Their group hate reduction is not on par with dirge hate buff (grandmaster).Give troubs some mage self buffs and free up a concentration slot. Increase mana regen for group desirability. Increase their group hate redux a bit.Fixed!!!Now stop bumping your own thread.

Brienae

07-26-2011, 10:16 AM

<cite>tfetterman wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Brienae@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Only solution I can think of to keep this thread up is to banter ideas back and forth. Even if there's only two of doing it. It will be an active thread. Sure they know the issues but tossing some ideas around can't hurt.Ideas I have:1 Buff our myth buff to be in line with dirges Do Not nerf the dirge myth buff to be in line with ours2 Possibly make all of our abiltities range capable. By this I mean allow all of our combat arts to be ranged abilities. This way we can stay with the casters we buff and use all of our abilities.Those are the only two I can think of currently. Any ideas pertaining to one can still be discussed and I'm willing to listen to opinions on 2. Also any other ideas would be great. As I said going ahead and bantering ideas can't hurt.</blockquote>There is absolutely no need for you to stay back with the casters on a regular basis. If you have a good healer, they will make sure you are in range of their heals. They should split the difference between you and the casters. Further, casters get within melee range now to use their big spells now. Your range buff will take care of the casters when you are in and they are out. You lose all kinds of dps by ranging. Adding range to some of our spells will make it better, but you still should be in. The uncapped MA demands it!I think that max spell damage on all magic damage to include all procs both from you and the rest of your raid/group will be a step in the right direction. Taking the cap off of haste is going to be a good thing it will help us rack up on flury, so we already have help there. Adding agility and stamina and removing the worthless mitigation on Raxxyl's Rousing Tune sounds like a good benefit.They are redoing the troubador tree, so now we won't have to waste 20 points to get harmonization, unless they still set the tree up wrong and assume worthless choices aren't really useless. I also think that the health added to Rejuvenating Concerto should probably be doubled along with the worthless regeneration added to each tick. It isn't nearly enough with the current health stats exploding as they have.</blockquote>You bring up a valid point. To clariy what I was suggesting was making our combat arts ranged. Btw ranged auto-attack also uses multi-attack. Like I said it was just an idea.As for casting speed. I don't believe I am anywhere near cap and there are other adornments I would prefer to use. I do use a few white adorns for casting speed but not many. I agree that more casting speed maybe on our gear would be nice. We have this armor that is dropping in group and raid zones designed specifically for us and it has nothing what so ever to do with casting.So heres what I see so far of ideas posted here:Mine: Ranged combat arts or blue aoesTfetterman: max spell damageNetty: Spell multi-attack and more casting speedI say we continue to discuss these ideas/add more. We may not agree but why don't we agree? I say keep discussing and let's not ignore anyone. You said you don't want to bump the thread... but you keep doing so.Um I've talked to some of my dirge friends and we've compared abilties. My auto-attack is not on par with theirs. As for the de-hate at master it does -33 hate mod add the focus to that (Can't remember which armor piece it's on right now) and it puts you at -43 hate mod. The cap is -50 for de-hate. With others in the group who can lower hate as well I've been in groups where my modifier is over -100 and my ui doesn't know how to count it. More negative hate mod would do nothing. As for the power regen yes more power would be good.

ZUES

07-26-2011, 10:40 AM

"Um I've talked to some of my dirge friends and we've compared abilties. My auto-attack is not on par with theirs."Then your gear was different, DPS mod, haste, group set up, etc. Because we have the exact same ability as dirges. I have a dirge and a troub. The only advantage a dirge has is COB (for the most part) and that is raid wide. Invest in poison in the bard tree. Dead calm and the other dirge proc are crap and never parse anything game changing or worth mentioning.Dirge w/ 3000agi, 125% dps mod and 100 haste (example) - 30,000-50,000 dpsTroub w/ 3000agi, 125% dps mod and 100 haste (example) 30,000-50,000 dps

tfetterman

07-26-2011, 11:50 AM

Really? With the dirge myth proc you guys actually are saying that auto-attack is right on par with the dirge? Really? No wonder you guys think we need casting speed!

Brienae

07-26-2011, 12:32 PM

<cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote>"Um I've talked to some of my dirge friends and we've compared abilties. My auto-attack is not on par with theirs."Then your gear was different, DPS mod, haste, group set up, etc. Because we have the exact same ability as dirges. I have a dirge and a troub. The only advantage a dirge has is COB (for the most part) and that is raid wide. Invest in poison in the bard tree. Dead calm and the other dirge proc are crap and never parse anything game changing or worth mentioning.Dirge w/ 3000agi, 125% dps mod and 100 haste (example) - 30,000-50,000 dpsTroub w/ 3000agi, 125% dps mod and 100 haste (example) 30,000-50,000 dps</blockquote>The dirges I've talked to are dirges I raid with so that might be the difference. Our gear is relatively the same. Our group set up is nothing alike. I don't know all of thier stats, but we for the most part have mostly EM raid gear. These are the groups as I remember them:MT Dirge: Paladin, Assasin, Defiler, Warden, Coercer. 80-100k dpsOT Dirge: Monk, Inquisitor, Coercer, Swashbuckler, (Few more melee but can't remember) Between 80-100K dps3rd Group Dirge: Gaurdian, Brigand, Illusionist, Necromancer, Wizard, Warden (Less geared can't remember their numbers)Mage Troubador (Myself) Illusionist, Conjuror, Wizard, Fury, Mystic (Sometimes the Necromancer in group three will be in place of the Mystic) I usually average between 50-70K.

Laiina

07-26-2011, 02:21 PM

<cite>Notes wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Laiina wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nerfing Dirges will not help Troubs, but Troubs for sure need some help. Even in full raid gear, my troub does less dps than many healers.</blockquote>This is really a funny comment. I am not even in full raid gear. Still missing a neck/hat/chest for EM Raid gear. I am easily averaging 50K+ zone wide on EM. Healers are not surpassing me. Troubs are probably one of the hardest classes to play in eq2, there is no easy mode for them, unless you just sit back, hit buttons and cast JCAP and PotM. Then you can parse 25-30k all the time....But healers do not out dps us.Noets</blockquote>Maybe YOUR healers don't, we have furies & defilers doing 100K.My typical dps in raids is around 60-90K, occasionally up to 120K on EX mode trash but that is rare.

ZUES

07-26-2011, 04:42 PM

<table style="border: #000000 4px solid;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="3">Dirge</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">Effects: <ul><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>Applies the effects of Chime of Blades to all raid members.</li></ul></li><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>On a successful melee attack this spell has a chance to cast Intrepid Strike on caster. Lasts for 12.0 seconds. This effect will trigger an average of 2.2 times per minute.<ul><li>Allows caster to hit all melee based attacks for maximum damage.</li></ul></li><li>This spell can not be modified except by direct means</li></ul></li><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>Riana's Indignant Sustain will improve combat art damage by 10%</li></ul></li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table> <table style="border: #000000 4px solid;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="3"><a title="Category:Troubador Equipment" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/wiki/Category:Troubador_Equipment">Troubador</a></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3"> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">Effects: <ul><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>On any successful attack this spell has a chance to cast Ayonic Hymn on target of attack. Lasts for 12.0 seconds. This effect will trigger an average of 2.4 times per minute.<ul><li>Increases Damage Spell Crit Chance of caster by 15.0%</li><li>Inflicts 428-641 mental damage on target</li></ul></li><li>This spell cannot be modified except by direct means</li></ul></li><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>Applies the effects of Perfection of the Maestro to all raid members.</li></ul></li><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>Aria of Magic will improve hostile spell damage by 10%</li></ul></li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table> Dirges get boost to CAs and troubs get boost to their spells. Intrepid Strike only effects CAs and does NOT effect autoattack! So a dirge CA hits for 2800-3100. That CA is now going to hit 3100. Wow.... way overpowered.... pfft.

Netty

07-26-2011, 04:57 PM

<cite>tfetterman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Really? With the dirge myth proc you guys actually are saying that auto-attack is right on par with the dirge? Really? No wonder you guys think we need casting speed!</blockquote>you guys? Im still waiting for an awnser from you. I play a troub just as much as you do. And where did i say the auto attack is on par with the dirge one? if all spells of a troub was cast alot faster and 15-20% spell MA it will be a nice bump for dps. Yes since you do play a troub aswell aye? You would know some of our spells are stumpid slow to cast. They all should be inline with chanters or a normal CA.sony will never give the dirge buff to troubs. And i myself dont even want that. Its nice to have classes working in diff ways.For those that way the class is in line check again... the more MA the dirge gets the bigger the gap is getting.

Brienae

07-26-2011, 06:31 PM

I'm not saying the dirge myth is over powered. My dirge is only 25 so I can't honestly say I know dirges well, but looking at my enervated buff and what was posted for dirges I'd like to compare:Troubador- Applies the effects of Perfection of the Maestro to all raid membersDirge-Applies the effects of Chime of Blades to all raid members. This sounds equivalentTroubador-Aria of magic will improve hostile spell damage by 10%Dirge-Riana's indignant Sustain will improve Combat Art damage by 10%This sounds sound equivalentTroubador-On any combat or spell hit this spell may cast Ayonic Hymn on target of attack. Lasts for 12.0 seconds triggers about 2.2 times per minute. Increases crit chance of caster by 15% Inflicts 754-1131 mental damage on TargetDirge-On a successful Melee attack this spell has a chance to cast Intrepid Strike on caster. Lasts for 12.0 seconds. This effect will trigger and average of 2.2 times per minute. Allows caster to hit all melee based attacks for max damage.I could be wrong here as math has never been my best subject but to me 15% crit chance and 1k added to our abilites does not equal the same as max damage. A dirge partner of mine put it this way "That's maybe adding 100 to your dps" referring to Ayonic Hymn Now I'm not saying I should be parsing with the assasins or anything. I am utility I get that I'm just a little tired of feeling invisible.

Prestissimo

07-26-2011, 07:43 PM

I really wish I had saved the link to the page, but there was a comparison of all 6 scouts auto attacks and the dirge won. I don't really care who is at the top, but to say that the dirge myth's Intrepid Strike is not a major part of their dps is just plain wrong.Just for S's & G's I parsed with the wife's dirge with all her gear that procs taken off spare the weapons (which don't have any procs that affect damage) in order to eliminate anything that would affecting the damage of the attacks. Intrepid Strike was up most of the fight, and when I pulled up the parse, guess what? Every single ability that was melee based used while intrepid strike was up was hitting for the exact same amount of damage. Is there anyone really that dilusional that is going to tell me that about 50 different times using the same ability and they're going to hit for the exact same point of damage when theres a possible spread of about 1-3k between the upper and lower amounts on the ability and auto attack?Parse it if you don't believe it, and make sure to take off anything that procs just to make sure that you're getting unmodified amounts each time. Make sure to look at the damage type of the attack before saying something like "Darksong Balde is hitting for different amounts". If you do that, I garuntee you that any combat art or auto attack alike that is melee based will hit for the same amount every time while intrepid strike is up.

Notes

07-28-2011, 06:09 PM

And we got NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.Noets

Xenxex

07-28-2011, 06:21 PM

Dont worry, we got the same thing you got. Honestly i am pretty dissapointed that you guys didnt get a bone. However I am more dissapointed that this is the revamp. I hope this is more like a partial update and the real update will show more of what people were wanting b/c this is nothing but a nerf on current gear/stats to tone down the items they will have dropping next year in raids.

Raahl

07-29-2011, 10:16 AM

Yea the Bard changes were weak and nothing to help out the Troubadors specifically.One thing now is there is no reason to ever consider using a shield, not that I was anyway.

VikodiN

07-30-2011, 05:54 PM

I've debated whether to use my Troubador over a Coercer or Defiler but from what I've read, I'm a bit hesitant.

Kunaak

07-31-2011, 10:36 PM

<cite>Basstone@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've debated whether to use my Troubador over a Coercer or Defiler but from what I've read, I'm a bit hesitant.</blockquote>if you can avoid playing a troub, do it. play anything else.

tfetterman

08-01-2011, 10:43 AM

<cite>ZUES wrote:</cite><blockquote><table style="border: #000000 4px solid;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="3">Dirge</td></tr><tr><td colspan="3"> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">Effects: <ul><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>Applies the effects of Chime of Blades to all raid members.</li></ul></li><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>On a successful melee attack this spell has a chance to cast Intrepid Strike on caster. Lasts for 12.0 seconds. This effect will trigger an average of 2.2 times per minute.<ul><li>Allows caster to hit all melee based attacks for maximum damage.</li></ul></li><li>This spell can not be modified except by direct means</li></ul></li><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>Riana's Indignant Sustain will improve combat art damage by 10%</li></ul></li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table> <table style="border: #000000 4px solid;" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="2" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="3"><a title="Category:Troubador Equipment" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/wiki/Category:Troubador_Equipment">Troubador</a></td></tr><tr><td colspan="3"> </td></tr><tr><td colspan="3">Effects: <ul><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>On any successful attack this spell has a chance to cast Ayonic Hymn on target of attack. Lasts for 12.0 seconds. This effect will trigger an average of 2.4 times per minute.<ul><li>Increases Damage Spell Crit Chance of caster by 15.0%</li><li>Inflicts 428-641 mental damage on target</li></ul></li><li>This spell cannot be modified except by direct means</li></ul></li><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>Applies the effects of Perfection of the Maestro to all raid members.</li></ul></li><li>When Equipped:<ul><li>Aria of Magic will improve hostile spell damage by 10%</li></ul></li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table> Dirges get boost to CAs and troubs get boost to their spells. Intrepid Strike only effects CAs and does NOT effect autoattack! So a dirge CA hits for 2800-3100. That CA is now going to hit 3100. Wow.... way overpowered.... pfft.</blockquote>Your response about Intrepid Strike is incorrect. It does affect autoattack!

Brienae

08-01-2011, 11:26 AM

So what do y'all think of the amazing changes they've shown us so far? /eye roll. I would like to know why the conversion of haste to Flurry is so low.

Condara

08-03-2011, 07:41 PM

Maybe we will get lucky with mythical 2.0 in a year./buffbot on

Griffildur

08-05-2011, 07:30 AM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Basstone@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've debated whether to use my Troubador over a Coercer or Defiler but from what I've read, I'm a bit hesitant.</blockquote>if you can avoid playing a troub, do it. play anything else.</blockquote>People complain too much really. Troubs are awesome to play. We are support classes and mages love to have us around.Reasons ? we add 5 to the range of spells of everyone not just mages, 22.5% crit chance bonus to everyone , all our songs and buffs which are downright awesome.This doesn't mean we shuoldn't get some love though as indeed some things are not quite where they should be. However, there is a big distance from saying don't play a troub period.Personally I love it. My troub is my raid main and my dps ranges between 60-120k depending on the group composition and buffsThe other troub in the raid does between 80-160k dps. While those numbers are by no means impressive, they are not really too bad. I feel I did my job when the mages in my group top the dps parse.Apart from that , I love the fact that we can just bash away at the mobs and not have to joust since we get 2 personal aoe blocks and 1 group aoe block.I would love to see some speed cast for our spells and a much improved mythical buff, of course ( the myth buff is good when you start raiding but then it loses its value as 15% cc is not really that impressive anymore. Heck I'd give anything to get the dirge myth effect <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

Brienae

08-06-2011, 09:04 AM

<cite>Mrrshan@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Basstone@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I've debated whether to use my Troubador over a Coercer or Defiler but from what I've read, I'm a bit hesitant.</blockquote>if you can avoid playing a troub, do it. play anything else.</blockquote>People complain too much really. Troubs are awesome to play. We are support classes and mages love to have us around.Reasons ? we add 5 to the range of spells of everyone not just mages, 22.5% crit chance bonus to everyone , all our songs and buffs which are downright awesome.This doesn't mean we shuoldn't get some love though as indeed some things are not quite where they should be. However, there is a big distance from saying don't play a troub period.Personally I love it. My troub is my raid main and my dps ranges between 60-120k depending on the group composition and buffsThe other troub in the raid does between 80-160k dps. While those numbers are by no means impressive, they are not really too bad. I feel I did my job when the mages in my group top the dps parse.Apart from that , I love the fact that we can just bash away at the mobs and not have to joust since we get 2 personal aoe blocks and 1 group aoe block.I would love to see some speed cast for our spells and a much improved mythical buff, of course ( the myth buff is good when you start raiding but then it loses its value as 15% cc is not really that impressive anymore. Heck I'd give anything to get the dirge myth effect <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />.</blockquote>I must say I agree with you. My troubador is also my main and my Mages love me. My dps isn't so great I admit but I am getting better. There are times however when I wish I wasn't as invisible as I like to put it. A new mythical effect would probably go a long way to help.

nofish

09-01-2011, 10:51 AM

SOE can you please fix the troubs , afther gu61 it feals we dropping fast , Playing me troub for a long time and for me it's troubadur or nothing as I have raided with all other classes and like they troub as it was before.We should boost castersclasses alot more and still have something that makes us have a place in raids etc.Dont nerf dirge's just to get 2 sucky bards class, I now you have alot atm but this very important that you do this asap.ty/gnome

Errrorr

09-04-2011, 05:21 AM

Wow, this thread has some people in who have no idea what playing a troub is really like, or how the class compares to a dirge.First and foremost, the dirge myth, I wouldn't say its OP, I would say it is a good effect for them, and that the troub myth needs looking at. 15% Crit chance, woo hoo?Troubs need some significant changes, I can't disagree with that, but I think the chances of SoE doing anything about it with them implementing a new class is highly unlikely.Even if they changed the myth buff, there would still be some fundamental problems with the troub class, and it's going to require bigger changes overall to sort out. For example PoTM needs to be on a similar timer to CoB, especially as a lot of raids now, practically require 3 tank groups = 3 dirges. So one troub in a raid, PoTM being up 1/3 of the time compared to constant CoB.There has been suggestions of making an ability called 'Spell Mastery', but this would just be a generic change in my opinion, and just be copying another ability. I'd prefer them to put some more work into VC, and give troubs some more form of self buffing, so when they are chucked in a mage group (like always), they have the potential to compete with dirges. Perhaps some form of ability that increases per mage in the group, or something, Anything!

Notes

09-06-2011, 12:13 PM

I found the perfect fix for my troub this weekend, betrayed to a dirge.Noets

Laiina

09-06-2011, 01:59 PM

I think the one thing that would really help troubs is to give mages back their spell double attack, via adding a bonus to one of the troub songs such as Aria of Magic.Troubadors are a dying breed, at least on Oasis. With all the DoV gear upgraded stats, their songs, buffs, and debuffs are much less important now, and they have no special abilities to speak of to bring to raids or groups.A couple of days ago I was in an EoW group with my Conjuror, and the troub had to leave and was replaced with an Inquisitor. And my DPS went up...