Betray to Beastlord from brawler

[Gilmartin]

<p>At the moment, you can betray from another "matching" class, i.e. Paladin to SK, Wizard to Warlock, Templar to Inquis.</p><p>As for what class should be "paired" up with Beastlords, considering they are leather wearers who can "equip anything a brawler can", it seems to make sense to group them with brawlers.</p><p>This is probably way too early but I thought I'd put it out there in the hope the Dev's might put it on the discussion list for consideration.  Brawlers seems to be the best fit I'd imagine?</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p>No, the classes are not related in any way other than what they can equip.</p>

[Ryai]

How about nothing should be able to. New class should mean everyone starts at level 1 day one.

[Knives]

<p>Beastlords are scouts that wear brawler gear, not actually brawlers.Considering there is no "matching" class (or even any class - scout or otherwise - similar to the Beastlord) I hope they do not offer a betrayal option. It won't be hard to level a new Beastlord to level 90 on day one, anyways - might as well learn some stuff about the class as you do it.</p>

[Winter]

<p><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif; color: #cc99ff; font-size: medium;">That would defeat the purpose of working your way through the quest, gaining warders, etc. I think they're meant to be a real, viable experience for people to enjoy. I honestly feel that allowing betrayal to them would cheapen that experience.</span></p>

[Galithdor]

<p><cite>Winter wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; color: #cc99ff;">That would defeat the purpose of working your way through the quest, gaining warders, etc. I think they're meant to be a real, viable experience for people to enjoy. I honestly feel that allowing betrayal to them would cheapen that experience.</span></p></blockquote><p>Gotta agree with Winter, it would take the enire experience away from the new class</p><p>Add to the fact that they are Scouts, they most likely will stay BLs if they betray</p>

[Ryai]

But still be told they will lose all their masters over, and over, and over.

[Gilmartin]

<p>I was thinking that if you take a brawler, exchange the tanking for increased DPS, give them a pet, and you've pretty much got a Beastlord.  Which as a brawler I find very exciting.  I love my monk, been playing him since launch and never ever considered playing another class.  Until now.</p><p><cite>Winter wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; color: #cc99ff;">That would defeat the purpose of working your way through the quest, gaining warders, etc. I think they're meant to be a real, viable experience for people to enjoy. I honestly feel that allowing betrayal to them would cheapen that experience.</span></p></blockquote><p>That could be part of the betrayal quest, quiet a unique one. No reason that would "cheapen" it if done correctly.  I think the experience (betrayal) should be a challenging and meaningful one.</p><p>I'm not looking for a freebie lvl 90 on day 1.  If people are opposted to the idea of brawlers being able to "jump the queue", then delay the betrayal by a month or two post launch.  I'm thinking about what would be fun long-term, not about some shortcut so I can say "WW 1st Beastlord W00T!".</p><p>I understand they are Scouts, but take away the archtype thingy for a second, and just look at what the class is.  Melee DPS using brawler gear, with a pet.  That's what got me thinking.</p><p>Could we (brawlers) be given the choice - do we want to keep our character as a tank, or are we willing to give up that portion, go on a quest to forge a meaningful bond with our Warder on the path toward a Beastlord?</p>

[Arianah]

<p>Actually, in EQ1 Beastlords were a hybrid, they were a Monk and a Shaman all combined in one. If you're going to go with that line of thinking, then why can't the Shamans also betray to a Beastlord? That would just open up a whole can of worms.</p>

[Cusashorn]

Personally, if there's one good thing that I like about the BLs being introduced into this game, it's the fact that people will actually have to reroll a brand new character to play as one, and actually play the game all over again. Sure, there will be plenty of whiners asking for instant gratification because they just did a quest that gives them nothing directly, but that's how it will be.

[Kamimura]

<p>Beastlords are going to be their own class, seperate from brawlers or shamans or anything else - and honestly, that's the way it should be. BLs are not brawlers, they're not going to get brawler combat arts and AAs, so why should they be linked at all for betrayal? Yes, they're going to share some gear, but I don't think that's enough of a link to actually make them into brawelrs. It wouldn't fit well.</p>

[Terrorizzertz]

<p>Any idea how close beastlord in eq2 is to eq1? Played one on eq1 for years and if they gonna be close might start playin eq2.</p>

[Jemoo]

<p>Terror, no idea how they will connect. All we really have so far is they wear leather, they're an AGI class ("scout") but use Brawler gear, and have a unique "smarter" pet. I think that they should hold off on a release and make Beastlords two classes with Beastlord as teh archtype, not the class. Make one more of a DPSer with good utility (T1 and 1/2 like rogues and chanters) and the second a utility that can do some decent damage (think bard, s solid T2 DPS).   They couldn't stand up to a predator or a socerer in straight up DPS but provide untility that those classes can't.  We have some really solid utility classes and adding another set of them would make for interesting groups. Since my idea wont happen because they're almost done with the class and ready for beta (I hope) then they really should just stay a single class with no betrayal class.</p>

[Keianna]

<p>Gil,</p><p>If it gets you to come back to the game, then the answer is YES...</p>

[Troubor]

<p><cite>Winter wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif; color: #cc99ff; font-size: medium;">That would defeat the purpose of working your way through the quest, gaining warders, etc. I think they're meant to be a real, viable experience for people to enjoy. I honestly feel that allowing betrayal to them would cheapen that experience.</span></p></blockquote><p>Me, I say that since Star Wars Galaxies is ending as a game at the end of the year, that they make the "opposing" class to Beastlords be Jedi.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>OKAY, OKAY...that was a joke. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>To be more serious, I quoted Winter because I do agree with her comment.  They should be allowed to betray from a good city to an evil (or evil to good) if they so desire but they stay beastlords, but IMO there shouldn't be a way to betray from a Brawler class or Shaman class to Beastlord.  I'm even iffy about going the other way, Beastlord to Brawler or Shaman.  Even a delay of a month or two before that could be unlocked IMO wouldn't be quite right. </p><p>Or to put it another way, my main is a paladin and yet he can't suddenly betray and become a guardian or berserker, despite both classes using the same armor and weapons (I wouldn't want to, this is just a hypothetical).  Nor can I betray to a cleric as a paladin despite both classes using plate armor and having healing spells (And again I don't want to as an aside)  Why should a brawler be able to betray to Beastlord just because a Beastlord uses the same armor and weapons?  If you allow Brawlers to Jump to beastlord, then you open up a huge can of worms due to that IMO.</p>

[Gilmartin]

<p>That is a good argument Troubor, well put.</p>

[Xordar]

<p><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Or to put it another way, my main is a paladin and yet he can't suddenly betray and become a guardian or berserker, despite both classes using the same armor and weapons (I wouldn't want to, this is just a hypothetical).  Nor can I betray to a cleric as a paladin despite both classes using plate armor and having healing spells (And again I don't want to as an aside)  Why should a brawler be able to betray to Beastlord just because a Beastlord uses the same armor and weapons?  If you allow Brawlers to Jump to beastlord, then you open up a huge can of worms due to that IMO.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p><p>Troubor beat me to it.</p>

[Senya]

<p><cite>Troubor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Me, I say that since Star Wars Galaxies is ending as a game at the end of the year, that they make the "opposing" class to Beastlords be Jedi.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p><p>OKAY, OKAY...that was a joke. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>To be more serious, I quoted Winter because I do agree with her comment.  They should be allowed to betray from a good city to an evil (or evil to good) if they so desire but they stay beastlords, but IMO there shouldn't be a way to betray from a Brawler class or Shaman class to Beastlord.  I'm even iffy about going the other way, Beastlord to Brawler or Shaman.  Even a delay of a month or two before that could be unlocked IMO wouldn't be quite right. </p><p>Or to put it another way, my main is a paladin and yet he can't suddenly betray and become a guardian or berserker, despite both classes using the same armor and weapons (I wouldn't want to, this is just a hypothetical).  Nor can I betray to a cleric as a paladin despite both classes using plate armor and having healing spells (And again I don't want to as an aside)  Why should a brawler be able to betray to Beastlord just because a Beastlord uses the same armor and weapons?  If you allow Brawlers to Jump to beastlord, then you open up a huge can of worms due to that IMO.</p></blockquote><p>Well put.  /agree</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Cyan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How about nothing should be able to. New class should mean everyone starts at level 1 day one.</blockquote><p>This</p><p>However I still dont like the 25 classes placed into a game designed around 24 classes max for raids. Honestly I rather them keep eq2 limited to 24 classes and merge both brawlers into monk and make beastlord the betrayal class for brawlers. Brawlers are so homogenized the two classes are barely even distinguishable from each other.</p><p>I would however hold off on putting in the Monk > beastlord betrayal quest until the next Game update if not two after AoD release. (at least 3 months possibly 6 at the earliest)</p><p>This however wont happen because the devs think the brawler community will somehow go in an uproar if they merged bruisers into monks. Honestly as a bruiser I wouldnt care as long as they did a half decent job and got rid of some of the crappy monk AA/abilites and replaced them with some of the better bruiser abilites/AA's.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p><cite>Cyan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How about nothing should be able to. New class should mean everyone starts at level 1 day one.</blockquote><p><img src="http://www.mattcrews.com/images/plus-one.png" /></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cyan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How about nothing should be able to. New class should mean everyone starts at level 1 day one.</blockquote><p>This</p><p>However I still dont like the 25 classes placed into a game designed around 24 classes max for raids. Honestly I rather them keep eq2 limited to 24 classes and merge both brawlers into monk and make beastlord the betrayal class for brawlers. Brawlers are so homogenized the two classes are barely even distinguishable from each other.</p><p>I would however hold off on putting in the Monk > beastlord betrayal quest until the next Game update if not two after AoD release. (at least 3 months possibly 6 at the earliest)</p><p>This however wont happen because the devs think the brawler community will somehow go in an uproar if they merged bruisers into monks. Honestly as a bruiser I wouldnt care as long as they did a half decent job and got rid of some of the crappy monk AA/abilites and replaced them with some of the better bruiser abilites/AA's.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah but removing any class at all would require retconning all NPC's related to that class out of the game. All the lore surrounding that class, the epic questline that focuses on it, the NPC's across the game that reference bruisers by name, the NPC's who's class itself is a bruiser, etc. All of them would have to be taken out of the game.</p>

[VikingGamer]

<p>Yes, it seems if Beastlord were to have a parallel betrayal class that it would be introduced at the same time keeping the number of classes even. It is possible however that they have another class already in mind to be its parallel but just haven't developed it enough to mention. Didn't SJ say that they wanted to see how people reacted to the new class and if it went well they would keep going with it. I suspect they have an outline for at least one more "warder" using class if not a few more.  After all, their are a number of variations that could be used. The Beastlord is melee dps so, as mentioned another class with warders could be a utility class. It could be a ranged dps class. There could also be completely different kinds of warders. Imagine the possibilities with a Demonlord class or warder classes that are mage based rather than scout based.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p><cite>Winter wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: 'comic sans ms', sans-serif; color: #cc99ff; font-size: medium;">That would defeat the purpose of working your way through the quest, gaining warders, etc. I think they're meant to be a real, viable experience for people to enjoy. I honestly feel that allowing betrayal to them would cheapen that experience.</span></p></blockquote><p>I agree with this as well.   Play them all the way up, and worry about betrayal once the class has been around for a year or 2 and is "old-hat".</p>

[Gilasil]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This</p><p>However I still dont like the 25 classes placed into a game designed around 24 classes max for raids. Honestly I rather them keep eq2 limited to 24 classes and merge both brawlers into monk and make beastlord the betrayal class for brawlers. Brawlers are so homogenized the two classes are barely even distinguishable from each other.</p><p>I would however hold off on putting in the Monk > beastlord betrayal quest until the next Game update if not two after AoD release. (at least 3 months possibly 6 at the earliest)</p><p>This however wont happen because the devs think the brawler community will somehow go in an uproar if they merged bruisers into monks. Honestly as a bruiser I wouldnt care as long as they did a half decent job and got rid of some of the [Removed for Content] monk AA/abilites and replaced them with some of the better bruiser abilites/AA's.</p></blockquote><p>There ARE differences between bruisers and monks.   I suspect many players don't really utilize the abilities enough to notice the differences but they're there.  I have both a bruiser and a monk.  If my bruiser got turned into a monk (or vice versa) I'd be upset.  The only way they could avoid upsetting people would be if the combined class had all the abilities of BOTH classes, and then it would be overpowered.</p><p>They of course need to allow betrayal so people can change alignment (how else will my Iksar get a home in Qeynos).  But a BL stays a BL.  Maybe someday if they ever add another scout class they might pair it with BL, but I doubt that will happen.</p><p>------------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>As for everyone starting off at level 1.  That's a nice idea, but with all the powerleveling that'll be going on I don't think it really counts.  It you REALLY want people to start at level one then don't allow them to be powerleveled.</p><p>So yea, all the BLs will start at level 1.  The newbie areas will be packed.  For a day.  Then half of the BLs will be powerleveled and in a week be level 90.  The people playing those BLs will only have a foggy notion how to play their class, but they'll be level 90.   The population at large will then form their opinions on the capabilities of this new class from how those brand new 90s perform as played by people who don't know their class.</p><p>I'm thinking of waiting a few days before rolling my BL so I don't have to contend with overcrowding in the low level areas.  I do intend to work my way up without powerleveling.  If the past is any guide it'll be the better part of a year before I'm level 90.  But once I'm there I'll really know my class and will probably have a nice numer of AAs as well.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Winter wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: 'comic sans ms',sans-serif; color: #cc99ff;">That would defeat the purpose of working your way through the quest, gaining warders, etc. I think they're meant to be a real, viable experience for people to enjoy. I honestly feel that allowing betrayal to them would cheapen that experience.</span></p></blockquote><p>But I want to get right to the fun stuff.  I'm not interested in any of that fluffy, pesky, annoying lore cr*p that gateways my fun.</p><p>And I'm only slightly joking about that.  I'll do the junk cause I have to, but I'm 99% sure I will not enjoy it or gain anything by it.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cyan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>How about nothing should be able to. New class should mean everyone starts at level 1 day one.</blockquote><p>This</p><p>However I still dont like the 25 classes placed into a game designed around 24 classes max for raids. Honestly I rather them keep eq2 limited to 24 classes and merge both brawlers into monk and make beastlord the betrayal class for brawlers. Brawlers are so homogenized the two classes are barely even distinguishable from each other.</p><p>I would however hold off on putting in the Monk > beastlord betrayal quest until the next Game update if not two after AoD release. (at least 3 months possibly 6 at the earliest)</p><p>This however wont happen because the devs think the brawler community will somehow go in an uproar if they merged bruisers into monks. Honestly as a bruiser I wouldnt care as long as they did a half decent job and got rid of some of the [Removed for Content] monk AA/abilites and replaced them with some of the better bruiser abilites/AA's.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah but removing any class at all would require retconning all NPC's related to that class out of the game. All the lore surrounding that class, the epic questline that focuses on it, the NPC's across the game that reference bruisers by name, the NPC's who's class itself is a bruiser, etc. All of them would have to be taken out of the game.</p></blockquote><p>egh not really Lore wise bruisers are already monks. Depending on what lore you go by dreadnauts or the DOF bruisers they are both just divisions of the same discipline. Its also not hard to script a reference change from bruiser to monk.</p>