Love, Marriage, and Paladins?

[Velenda]

<p>Greetings to all!</p><p>While creating the backstory of my Paladin for RP I came upon and interesting delamma. Can the Paladins of Norrath get married or take lovers? I vaugely remeber reading, something that said, they had to be celibate but I can't really remeber where I got that from.</p><p>I also asked in my servers general chat and no one really knew for sure. So I ask the lords, and ladys, of lore of this board for some help.</p><p>Any detailed Paladin social info would be great.</p>

[Cusashorn]

Sure they can. The Order of Marr in Freeport, back before they were wiped off the face of the planet, were devout followers of both Erollisi and Mithanial Marr. In fact, in regards to the storyline and Erollisi Marr's death, it was actually one such paladin's lover who ended up betraying the order and killing her. She became Ulkoruuk, demi-goddess of Betrayal and Insurrection. I don't ever recall anything about any such orders across Norrath who declared celebacy. Not even the monks.

[Drusi]

<p>I don't recall anything requiring celibacy for all paladins either, but if you wanted to go the celibacy route, you could always come up with a division within an existing paladin order (or even a different order altogether) that made vows of celibacy towards some purpose. There's nothing that says your paladin has to belong to the Order of Marr, Paladins of Tunare, etc., or that those orders don't have multiple factions and divisions within them based on region, local leadership, etc., even if they are ultimately striving for the same goals.</p>

[Liviea]

<p>If i remember correctly wasnt Saryn's husband/lover while mortal a paladin?</p><p>just found this at <a href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30386" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30386</a></p><p>"Born a woman of striking beauty, Saryrn had a laugh that would make the flowers bloom. She received a vision wherein Erollisi Marr blessed her and promised her a rare and special kind of love. She was promised that she would meet her soul mate and that should she master all the principles of love, together they would share a long and happy life together. In the vision, she was shown the man of whom Erollisi Marr had spoken. He was a Paladin of Marr. They courted and in the fullness of time, married. Her husband served during the day but every night and morning they were together in their modest hillside home on the outskirts of Freeport. It seemed to her that Erollisi's prediction had come true..."</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Liviea wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If i remember correctly wasnt Saryn's husband/lover while mortal a paladin?</p><p>just found this at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30386" target="_blank">http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30386</a></p><p>"Born a woman of striking beauty, Saryrn had a laugh that would make the flowers bloom. She received a vision wherein Erollisi Marr blessed her and promised her a rare and special kind of love. She was promised that she would meet her soul mate and that should she master all the principles of love, together they would share a long and happy life together. In the vision, she was shown the man of whom Erollisi Marr had spoken. He was a Paladin of Marr. They courted and in the fullness of time, married. Her husband served during the day but every night and morning they were together in their modest hillside home on the outskirts of Freeport. It seemed to her that Erollisi's prediction had come true..."</p></blockquote><p>That's the Post-EQ2 retcon story.</p>

[Anestacia]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Liviea wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If i remember correctly wasnt Saryn's husband/lover while mortal a paladin?</p><p>just found this at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30386" target="_blank">http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30386</a></p><p>"Born a woman of striking beauty, Saryrn had a laugh that would make the flowers bloom. She received a vision wherein Erollisi Marr blessed her and promised her a rare and special kind of love. She was promised that she would meet her soul mate and that should she master all the principles of love, together they would share a long and happy life together. In the vision, she was shown the man of whom Erollisi Marr had spoken. He was a Paladin of Marr. They courted and in the fullness of time, married. Her husband served during the day but every night and morning they were together in their modest hillside home on the outskirts of Freeport. It seemed to her that Erollisi's prediction had come true..."</p></blockquote><p>That's the Post-EQ2 retcon story.</p></blockquote><p>I am not aware of this particular story coming during PoP.  First time I saw it was when the Fabled version of PoP was introduced.  However, it was officially posted on the EQ1 website and the Fabled events dont bring new lore, just a game mechanic.  Since it deals with a time in and before PoP then to me it makes that story cannon for EQ2.</p>

[Velenda]

<p>*whew*</p><p>What a relief. I was going for the angle that hr rejects his vows of celibacy, and then take it from there. However now I dont have to do that. </p><p>Off to re-write a page or two.</p><p>Thank you. ^_^</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Liviea wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If i remember correctly wasnt Saryn's husband/lover while mortal a paladin?</p><p>just found this at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30386" target="_blank">http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/30386</a></p><p>"Born a woman of striking beauty, Saryrn had a laugh that would make the flowers bloom. She received a vision wherein Erollisi Marr blessed her and promised her a rare and special kind of love. She was promised that she would meet her soul mate and that should she master all the principles of love, together they would share a long and happy life together. In the vision, she was shown the man of whom Erollisi Marr had spoken. He was a Paladin of Marr. They courted and in the fullness of time, married. Her husband served during the day but every night and morning they were together in their modest hillside home on the outskirts of Freeport. It seemed to her that Erollisi's prediction had come true..."</p></blockquote><p>That's the Post-EQ2 retcon story.</p></blockquote><p>I am not aware of this particular story coming during PoP.  First time I saw it was when the Fabled version of PoP was introduced.  However, it was officially posted on the EQ1 website and the Fabled events dont bring new lore, just a game mechanic.  Since it deals with a time in and before PoP then to me it makes that story cannon for EQ2.</p></blockquote><p>I said Post EVERQUEST 2, not Post-Planes of Power. This story officially retconed the story behind Saryrn - a story that existed since the very start of Everquest - AFTER the Everquest 2 video game was released. What this means though is that the retcon only applies to EQ, so as far as EQ2 is concerned (until a developer says otherwise), Saryrn was still a follower of Erollisi Marr who was eventually corrupted by Innoruuk's seed of hatred after she spent years waiting for her lover to return from the war he was sent off to. She eventually became so tormented by the fact that not even a single clue of his existence ever came back to her that she started tormenting others because they were in love, and eventually became the demi-goddess of Torment.</p>

[DeBasilisk]

<p>Paladins are allowed to have sex, but like all Lawful-Good entities, they are not allowed to enjoy it.</p><p>Chaotic-Neutrals have the most fun at parties.</p>

[Amarillan]

<p>There is a book in game.. I think it might be from the Halloween event that state those who serve in the Temple of the Twins must be chaste.</p><p>I took that to mean that only those who serve a term in the Temple as guards, acolytes, functionaires  ((Did I make up a word?!)) would be required to be celibate and viewed for that time,  perhaps as nuns are viewed IRL, as being wedded to  the Twins for the period of their term.</p>

[Kaitheel]

<p> </p><p>Amarillan, you were thinking of the book, "The Enemy Within" which was first obtained during the Erollisi Day events of 2010, with the quest "What's Love Got to Do With It?".It stated, "Sentry Selena had been a high knight within the Sentries of Passion, stationed at Freeport's Temple of Marr.  Sentry Calum was one of the Sentries of Passion under her.""Then, upon the night of the Lover's Moon, as the temple was in the height of celebration with much wine and song, Selena and Calum both excused themselves. They were both fully aware that a tryst would violate their vows of dedication to the Holy Siblings, but evidence collected from within her private quarters leads us to conclude such an act occurred."This was right before Sentry Selena viciously murdered Sentry Calum in a jealous rage.But I would not assume that this means that they were required to be celibate, considering that they did serve the Goddess of Love, but that they were not to become involved with one another.  These are warriors for Love and Valor.  It was thought that if they held particular personal relationships with one another above that of their duty it could negatively affect their ability to serve the Marr twins.Hope that helps!</p><p>~Kaitheel</p>

[Amarillan]

<p>!n <a title="English language" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language">English</a>, the word <em><a class="extiw" title="wikt:en:love" href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/en:love">love</a></em> can refer to a variety of different feelings, states, and attitudes, ranging from generic <a title="Pleasure" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleasure">pleasure</a> ("I loved that meal") to intense <a title="Interpersonal attraction" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_attraction">interpersonal attraction</a> ("I love my partner"). "Love" can also refer specifically to the passionate desire and intimacy of <a title="Romance (love)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_%28love%29">romantic love</a>, to the <a title="Sex" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex">sexual</a> love of <a title="Eros (concept)" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eros_%28concept%29">eros</a> (cf. <a title="Greek words for love" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_words_for_love">Greek words for love</a>), to the emotional closeness of <a class="mw-redirect" title="Familial love" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familial_love">familial</a> love, or to the <a title="Platonic love" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platonic_love">platonic love</a> that defines <a title="Friendship" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendship">friendship</a>,^{<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love#cite_note-PlatonicSchool-3"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a>} to the profound <a title="Henosis" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henosis">oneness</a> or devotion of <a title="Religious views on love" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_views_on_love">religious love</a>.^{<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love#cite_note-Gita-4"><strong><span>[</span></strong>5<span>]</span></a>} This diversity of uses and meanings, combined with the complexity of the feelings involved, makes love unusually difficult to consistently define, even compared to other emotional states.</p><p><span >They were both fully aware that a tryst would violate their vows of dedication to the Holy Siblings, but evidence collected from within her private quarters leads us to conclude such an act occurred." is the line in question, but it can be read two ways.</span></p><p>One is that a tyrst  between them was forbidden due to station and the fact they are both Knights of Passion.. ((And Passion need not only refer to sexual passion as the lines *She went on to say " I knew not if he had been taken by Drinal or if he was just unconscious, but his heroic act inspired me.  I was renewed and fought with an unbridled passion from that moment.))</p><p>The other is that their devotion, their love was reserved for their religious icon and thus were chaste until their time of service ended.</p><p>It truly is a matter of interpretation and yes that was the book I was thinking of  *bonks self on the head*</p>

[Kaitheel]

<p>It could have been up <span >interpretation, sure.  Which is exactly why I was clarifying it.  Me, the author.</span></p><p>~Kaitheel</p>

[Cusashorn]

The answer is obvious. Change the word "Tryst" as written in the book to a different word. Retcon the story before it gets further out of hand!

[Resstful]

<p>The book is fine the way it is. Google the definition and find that the word 'tryst' could be replaced by 'assignation,' 'rendevous,' 'meeting,' 'special meeting,' or place. Any of which could have pregnant meaning.</p><p>'Tryst' fits the tone of Norrathian time. It fits the happenings. It fits the Night of the Lovers Moon and the revelry thereon.</p><p>AFIK 'chaste' does not necessarily mean 'celibate.'  Regard the chastity belt; it was reportedly place on WIVES of Lords heading off the wars.  The wife was generally not virgin particularly if the Lord was under the Right of Kings whereby the King 'knew' the wife before the Lord, etc., etc., etc.</p><p>The books are Norrathian literature and should not be subject to 21st century RL morals.</p><p>Disclaimer: my own opinion ))</p>

[Boli32]

<p><cite>Velenda wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Greetings to all!</p><p>While creating the backstory of my Paladin for RP I came upon and interesting delamma. Can the Paladins of Norrath get married or take lovers?</p></blockquote><p>I ruddy hope so <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>