Drundar Content unpolished, and very hard. [Archive]

p3t3rl1

07-11-2011, 09:37 AM

Gotta have to agree with Talathion here. I am a raider that is almost fully geared in EM armor and I am raiding HM content atm. No one in our guild wants to do Drunder. A drunder zone in general takes about 3 hrs or more to complete and the loot there is just not worth our time. I know the Drunder loot there is not suppose to be good, it is suppose to be used as an intermediate step in the crafting process. However, this is an issue. The crafting armor is prolly not better than our EM armor and it would take ages for anyone to get a piece of that. First of all, since each named only drops one piece of loot to "transmute" and there are six people in a group. It is impossible for anyone to accumulate enough pieces with this system given how hard the zone and how few groups there are doing drunder atm. How are people suppose to gear up from this? You can't do this zone in Rygorr armor/kael stuff. If you are doing this zone, you have EM armor pieces, and the loot simply it isn't worth it. It has being more than a month since Drunder was released. We understand if Drunder was hard initially due to the lack of testing and player feedback. However, given weeks of complaining, Drunder is still diffcult. Yes, you have introduced 3 new heroic zones but is anyone actually playing there to worth the time and effort you dedicated to the design of these zones? Something to think about.

Ealthina

07-11-2011, 09:50 AM

The zone was never meant for scru...errr non-hardcore raiders.

HammerOfThor

07-11-2011, 10:08 AM

<cite>Cheesers@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>The zone was never meant for scru...errr non-hardcore raiders. </blockquote>Yet the post just before yours is from someone who is raiding HM content and that person doesn't want to run the these zones. Target market fail either way you look at it. If it's for the HM Raiders they don't want it and the general population doesn't seem to be able to complete it.For my opinion, any dungeon that takes 3 hours to run is fail fail fail. EPIC FAIL. Dungeons should be no more than an hour to make them really useful. That doesn't mean make them blindingly trivial. It just means they need to break them up more. Three hour dungeon runs = poor mans raid = really crappy loot compared to real raid = frustrating use of in-game time (better spent farming plat to buy raid gear) = majority of players not running content = why in the crap did you build it in the first place?

Silzin

07-11-2011, 10:21 AM

I think there should keep the zones as they are and call then “Hard Mode” and introduce loot that is on pare with ToRZ HM (the group one). Then introduce a version that has the loot that is dropping know with encounters that are just a bit harder then the Keal zones. This is probably the first time I can say that I agree with you Talathion.

ffd700

07-11-2011, 10:39 AM

I'm all for a challenge, but these zones are just ridiculous when compared to how easy KD zones are now.I've been on the Strategist's Stronghold portion of the signature line and there's zero groups going in there aside from maybe 2 or 3 raid guilds ( on AB ), which unless they happen to need a pugger to fill their group there's zero chance of me getting through that quest line. ( and no pug is going to clear this zone, even if they manage to get through Spire of Rage )So basically we have a heroic signature quest line involving heroic dungeons that require you to have raid gear to complete. ( that includes x2 loot, nobody is doing these dungeons w/out at least x2 weapons and jewelery, which is still raid gear )

theriatis

07-11-2011, 10:51 AM

Hi,i tried to make that a Point here:<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=75&topic_id=500714#5570966">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=500714#5570966</a>Seems that nothing dramatically/major has changed...Regards, theriatis.

Talathion

07-11-2011, 11:02 AM

- Remove the Crafting Recipes.- Remove the Components.- Make the Zone Drop the loot you make the stuff with.- Improve Loot, ALOT, the loot does not reflect the zone and nobody is going to waste there time with crafting this gear.(The loot should be Between x2 - x4 Raid Loot). OR. - Reduce the Mobs Damage Output by 30-50% (All damage from all zones, including spell damage) AND Health by "HALF" (they all have rediculous amounts of HP, the Zones take up to 3-4 hours, some named fights take 40 minutes. Something Drastic "NEEDS" to be done, these zones are currently a waste of players time.If you could just give me time I could re-do all the loot in the zone and give them "proper" correct stats based on how hard the encounters are. (may take a day.)

Geothe

07-11-2011, 11:38 AM

For the quality of gear the zones drop, they definitely need toning down significantly.Either that or the gear quality needs to be greatly increased... but that isn't really an option because then it would start to reach into raid-level quality probably.Overall, Drunder zones definitely are messed up in their progression stepping.

Talathion

07-11-2011, 11:43 AM

More like stepping on a stairway and having the thing break under your feet...

Apiar

07-11-2011, 01:49 PM

Disagree with this thread. The zones are not that hard. A few bosses are hard. The loot is on par with X2 loot in stronghold and tower of tactics. Some decent stuff drops in there that even easy mode raiders would use, like BP and priest shields. If you have Ry'Gorr gear you should be able to run these zones. My guild has been farming these sicne they came out. The fallen swords quest requires going into all 3 dungeons and gives a nice reward (chest adorn that is class specific). Please do not tone down these zones anymore. Its nice to have a challenge for once and was fun learning the strats for these zones.if anything needs to be adjusted, it is the last boss in Stronghold. I could see how this fight would be frustrating and form a block for people to get into Tower.

SOE-MOD-02

07-11-2011, 02:00 PM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=499962&post_id=5584786" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=49996...post_id=5584786</a> Do not intentionally evade the word filter or partially mask profanity by the substituting characters or words. The intent will still be clear.

Etruscus

07-11-2011, 05:15 PM

On the subject of drunder:We tried the Spire of Rage several times with a group that I would this is mostly aimed at (mostly ry'gorr shard armor, mostly TOFS X2 jewlery) and we couldn't make it past the first boss. We've tried this a couple times, but most of our members simply don't want to waist their time knowing that nothing is going to drop for them and at best they will need to come back to the zone several times.I've made this suggestion in another thread, but they should just do away with refining down the gear. It's a confusing system. Make it so the zone pops harestable nodes and as you clear further you get more nodes. Pretty easy, eh? Implementing this wouldnt' break the current system, so I don't see the downside.Furthermore, I still don't understand who the X2 drunder is aimed at. It's certainly not aimed at guilds who are working on Tofs with full sets of Ry'gorr.I'm not sure why not. It would be a logical step.

Kaszan

07-11-2011, 06:24 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you could just give me time I could re-do all the loot in the zone and give them "proper" correct stats based on how hard the encounters are. (may take a day.)</blockquote>The zone needs tweaking, by either adjusting the difficulty or adjusting the loot. But no one in thier right mind would allow you to do the loot :p

Odys

07-11-2011, 08:15 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>After about 14 tries our group finally killed the 3 mages and golem, next pig guy with the disarm is just insane... what playerbase is this aimed at? because its obviously not aimed at heroic people. Which by the way, took 23 minutes to kll... when we were expecting the mob to drop gold he dropped an axe that was WORSE then the sword in pools.The loot really isn't worth it, and as my friend said before, we could of probably one grouped a x4 and got better loot then wasting our time in this zone.The Entire Zone is pretty much a waste of time, and I would go as far to say, for the drops in the zone stay what they currently are, the difficulty of the zone needs decreased by as much by half, or loot value needs doubled (all loot in the zone should be a little better then x2 loot).</blockquote>I went once, we actually killed the Pig guy and the named after. We did the 3 mage on third try.But my group was the group 1 of our Tower x2 group that cleared the tower x2. I saw no reason to return ever. We spend lik 3-4 hours to get loot inferior to x4 loot.Drunder is another example of a total lost of connection with a large chunk of the player base. Drunder is way harder than 60-80% of the EM encounters. it's harder than 80% of the tower x2. And loot if somewhere between rygor and x4.I beleive that the problem comes from the fact that the dev only interact with people from hard core raiding guilds. More Casual people are probably silent and don't even read this forum. So they design content for the players from which they get feedback and request, not for the mass.It's not some new trend, pre nerfed Kael + kael contested were already like this. After 4-5 monthes they finally decided to make those instances usbale by the player base. Ironically kale was nerfed just when the masses were about to be geared enough to go there <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Talathion

07-11-2011, 08:50 PM

Kael was way overnerfed, but this zone pales in comparison to that, it makes Zek prenerf Temple look like Kindergarden.

Odys

07-11-2011, 09:21 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kael was way overnerfed, but this zone pales in comparison to that, it makes Zek prenerf Temple look like Kindergarden.</blockquote>Well kael 3 was not really easier in PQ gear than drunder in rygor and x2 gear. I agree that the nerf was a bit insane, especially in the contested or kael 1 in which you can now just do anything and survive.I won't go to drunder as long as gear is not made better or equal than EMx4 ... that or nerf the zone <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Here and then i see people asking a healer for drunder (extremelly rarely). They always write : Drunder XX group looking for a raid geared shammie <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Kunaak

07-11-2011, 10:20 PM

I agree with this post.no one runs these zones, except people in raid gear, and even then 90% of them cant clear the second zone. if you have raid gear, and need gear in here.... thats kinda sad really. heroic content should be aimed towards everyone.

darksummoner85

07-12-2011, 05:08 AM

Drunder as a whole made me sad, as a raider and as a crafter and pugger.... a giant waste of my timeI argee with OP major changes need to happen

Trensharo

07-12-2011, 02:10 PM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>After about 14 tries our group finally killed the 3 mages and golem, next pig guy with the disarm is just insane... what playerbase is this aimed at? because its obviously not aimed at heroic people. Which by the way, took 23 minutes to kll... when we were expecting the mob to drop gold he dropped an axe that was WORSE then the sword in pools.The loot really isn't worth it, and as my friend said before, we could of probably one grouped a x4 and got better loot then wasting our time in this zone.The Entire Zone is pretty much a waste of time, and I would go as far to say, for the drops in the zone stay what they currently are, the difficulty of the zone needs decreased by as much by half, or loot value needs doubled (all loot in the zone should be a little better then x2 loot).</blockquote>I went once, we actually killed the Pig guy and the named after. We did the 3 mage on third try.But my group was the group 1 of our Tower x2 group that cleared the tower x2. I saw no reason to return ever. We spend lik 3-4 hours to get loot inferior to x4 loot.Drunder is another example of a total lost of connection with a large chunk of the player base. Drunder is way harder than 60-80% of the EM encounters. it's harder than 80% of the tower x2. And loot if somewhere between rygor and x4.I beleive that the problem comes from the fact that the dev only interact with people from hard core raiding guilds. More Casual people are probably silent and don't even read this forum. So they design content for the players from which they get feedback and request, not for the mass.It's not some new trend, pre nerfed Kael + kael contested were already like this. After 4-5 monthes they finally decided to make those instances usbale by the player base. Ironically kale was nerfed just when the masses were about to be geared enough to go there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You did an x2 and got loot inferior to x4 loot good job there buddy.On a more serious note, the gear in Cit of Vuul is positioned well. It's a challenging raid and can be completely in a decent raid of people in T2 (Ry'Gorr) Gear (with proper Adornments) and x2 Jewels/Weapons.The gear is positioned well.The issue is the x4 EM raids are complete faceroll, as well as ToFS x2.Especially after the recent nerfs to raid mob CB... There's absolutely no excuse to be crying about the difficulty of this raid and the quality of the gear it drops.It also gives very small guilds a means of progression (PQ > Heroics > ToFS > Finish Ry'Gorr > Tower of Vuul) without having to spend hours pugging bads from public channels.

Trensharo

07-12-2011, 02:12 PM

As far as the Heroics are concerned, I agree they are overtuned, factorably.And the issue isn't really the bosses, either. It's the trash MOBs. Some of the trash pulls in those zones are IMO harder than most of the bosses.There are people that refuse to do them without 2 healers, if they would even bother doing them at all...

Talathion

07-12-2011, 02:57 PM

This isn't JUST about items... ?

p3t3rl1

07-12-2011, 03:42 PM

<cite>Trensharo@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>After about 14 tries our group finally killed the 3 mages and golem, next pig guy with the disarm is just insane... what playerbase is this aimed at? because its obviously not aimed at heroic people. Which by the way, took 23 minutes to kll... when we were expecting the mob to drop gold he dropped an axe that was WORSE then the sword in pools.The loot really isn't worth it, and as my friend said before, we could of probably one grouped a x4 and got better loot then wasting our time in this zone.The Entire Zone is pretty much a waste of time, and I would go as far to say, for the drops in the zone stay what they currently are, the difficulty of the zone needs decreased by as much by half, or loot value needs doubled (all loot in the zone should be a little better then x2 loot).</blockquote>I went once, we actually killed the Pig guy and the named after. We did the 3 mage on third try.But my group was the group 1 of our Tower x2 group that cleared the tower x2. I saw no reason to return ever. We spend lik 3-4 hours to get loot inferior to x4 loot.Drunder is another example of a total lost of connection with a large chunk of the player base. Drunder is way harder than 60-80% of the EM encounters. it's harder than 80% of the tower x2. And loot if somewhere between rygor and x4.I beleive that the problem comes from the fact that the dev only interact with people from hard core raiding guilds. More Casual people are probably silent and don't even read this forum. So they design content for the players from which they get feedback and request, not for the mass.It's not some new trend, pre nerfed Kael + kael contested were already like this. After 4-5 monthes they finally decided to make those instances usbale by the player base. Ironically kale was nerfed just when the masses were about to be geared enough to go there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You did an x2 and got loot inferior to x4 loot good job there buddy.On a more serious note, the gear in Cit of Vuul is positioned well. It's a challenging raid and can be completely in a decent raid of people in T2 (Ry'Gorr) Gear (with proper Adornments) and x2 Jewels/Weapons.The gear is positioned well.The issue is the x4 EM raids are complete faceroll, as well as ToFS x2.Especially after the recent nerfs to raid mob CB... There's absolutely no excuse to be crying about the difficulty of this raid and the quality of the gear it drops.It also gives very small guilds a means of progression (PQ > Heroics > ToFS > Finish Ry'Gorr > Tower of Vuul) without having to spend hours pugging bads from public channels.</blockquote>The gear from the x2 is balanced but the diffculty isn't. I find it funny that this person said the x4 diffculty is a joke. Sir, just because you guild hopped from a guild that was barely clearing any x4 content to a guild that was farming x4 content doesn't mean it is easy. Those of us raiding since the begining of DoV know how diffcult the raids are. Of course when you are doing those farm raids with people mostly decked out in EM gear the raids seem like a joke. Btw, drunder x2 is very diffcult to be done in rygorr gear, we have enough diffculty with some of the named and we have cleared all EM and some HM content. Lacking those war runes and stats boost from the EM x4 raid gear makes some of the named fight impossible.

Trensharo

07-12-2011, 04:03 PM

<cite>p3t3rl1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trensharo@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>After about 14 tries our group finally killed the 3 mages and golem, next pig guy with the disarm is just insane... what playerbase is this aimed at? because its obviously not aimed at heroic people. Which by the way, took 23 minutes to kll... when we were expecting the mob to drop gold he dropped an axe that was WORSE then the sword in pools.The loot really isn't worth it, and as my friend said before, we could of probably one grouped a x4 and got better loot then wasting our time in this zone.The Entire Zone is pretty much a waste of time, and I would go as far to say, for the drops in the zone stay what they currently are, the difficulty of the zone needs decreased by as much by half, or loot value needs doubled (all loot in the zone should be a little better then x2 loot).</blockquote>I went once, we actually killed the Pig guy and the named after. We did the 3 mage on third try.But my group was the group 1 of our Tower x2 group that cleared the tower x2. I saw no reason to return ever. We spend lik 3-4 hours to get loot inferior to x4 loot.Drunder is another example of a total lost of connection with a large chunk of the player base. Drunder is way harder than 60-80% of the EM encounters. it's harder than 80% of the tower x2. And loot if somewhere between rygor and x4.I beleive that the problem comes from the fact that the dev only interact with people from hard core raiding guilds. More Casual people are probably silent and don't even read this forum. So they design content for the players from which they get feedback and request, not for the mass.It's not some new trend, pre nerfed Kael + kael contested were already like this. After 4-5 monthes they finally decided to make those instances usbale by the player base. Ironically kale was nerfed just when the masses were about to be geared enough to go there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You did an x2 and got loot inferior to x4 loot good job there buddy.On a more serious note, the gear in Cit of Vuul is positioned well. It's a challenging raid and can be completely in a decent raid of people in T2 (Ry'Gorr) Gear (with proper Adornments) and x2 Jewels/Weapons.The gear is positioned well.The issue is the x4 EM raids are complete faceroll, as well as ToFS x2.Especially after the recent nerfs to raid mob CB... There's absolutely no excuse to be crying about the difficulty of this raid and the quality of the gear it drops.It also gives very small guilds a means of progression (PQ > Heroics > ToFS > Finish Ry'Gorr > Tower of Vuul) without having to spend hours pugging bads from public channels.</blockquote>The gear from the x2 is balanced but the diffculty isn't. I find it funny that this person said the x4 diffculty is a joke. Sir, just because you guild hopped from a guild that was barely clearing any x4 content to a guild that was farming x4 content doesn't mean it is easy. Those of us raiding since the begining of DoV know how diffcult the raids are. Of course when you are doing those farm raids with people mostly decked out in EM gear the raids seem like a joke. Btw, drunder x2 is very diffcult to be done in rygorr gear, we have enough diffculty with some of the named and we have cleared all EM and some HM content. Lacking those war runes and stats boost from the EM x4 raid gear makes some of the named fight impossible. </blockquote>I didn't guild hop, I stopped wasting my time.The guild I was in before, I was one of the only two DPS in the guild that could do over 50k DPS consistently, and I routinely did 25-30% of the x4 Raid's damage in Kraytoc x4 EM. They had a 90 Ranger Parsing 20k and a Necro parsing 40k. They have some good players, but those players are massively outnumbered.They had a ton of Alts in guild with terrible gear who couldn't be bothered to run Heroics for upgrades, and a bunch of people wiht < 250 AAs (a few with < 200).That's not guild hopping.The difficulty and the loot in Citadel of Vuul is balanced. Kraytoc's is faceroll and there's more than a few faceroll bosses in the other instances. Even that guild I was in killed a few of them (and cleared Kraytocs) with what we were running with (which speaks for how easy it is, not how skilled they were).But that is neither here nor there. Keep clueless comments and indirect namecalling to yourself, kthx.I started Raiding in PQ gear with Heroic off-pieces/weapons/etc. with that other guild I was in. I didn't get anything handed to me on a silver platter. Don't make it sound that way. You're wrong.Drunder x2 is not "very difficult" in T2 Gear if you farmed ToFS x2 for the off-pieces and adorned properly. It's challenging. Raiding should be challenging.

minichimi

07-12-2011, 04:07 PM

<cite>p3t3rl1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trensharo@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>After about 14 tries our group finally killed the 3 mages and golem, next pig guy with the disarm is just insane... what playerbase is this aimed at? because its obviously not aimed at heroic people. Which by the way, took 23 minutes to kll... when we were expecting the mob to drop gold he dropped an axe that was WORSE then the sword in pools.The loot really isn't worth it, and as my friend said before, we could of probably one grouped a x4 and got better loot then wasting our time in this zone.The Entire Zone is pretty much a waste of time, and I would go as far to say, for the drops in the zone stay what they currently are, the difficulty of the zone needs decreased by as much by half, or loot value needs doubled (all loot in the zone should be a little better then x2 loot).</blockquote>I went once, we actually killed the Pig guy and the named after. We did the 3 mage on third try.But my group was the group 1 of our Tower x2 group that cleared the tower x2. I saw no reason to return ever. We spend lik 3-4 hours to get loot inferior to x4 loot.Drunder is another example of a total lost of connection with a large chunk of the player base. Drunder is way harder than 60-80% of the EM encounters. it's harder than 80% of the tower x2. And loot if somewhere between rygor and x4.I beleive that the problem comes from the fact that the dev only interact with people from hard core raiding guilds. More Casual people are probably silent and don't even read this forum. So they design content for the players from which they get feedback and request, not for the mass.It's not some new trend, pre nerfed Kael + kael contested were already like this. After 4-5 monthes they finally decided to make those instances usbale by the player base. Ironically kale was nerfed just when the masses were about to be geared enough to go there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You did an x2 and got loot inferior to x4 loot good job there buddy.On a more serious note, the gear in Cit of Vuul is positioned well. It's a challenging raid and can be completely in a decent raid of people in T2 (Ry'Gorr) Gear (with proper Adornments) and x2 Jewels/Weapons.The gear is positioned well.The issue is the x4 EM raids are complete faceroll, as well as ToFS x2.Especially after the recent nerfs to raid mob CB... There's absolutely no excuse to be crying about the difficulty of this raid and the quality of the gear it drops.It also gives very small guilds a means of progression (PQ > Heroics > ToFS > Finish Ry'Gorr > Tower of Vuul) without having to spend hours pugging bads from public channels.</blockquote>The gear from the x2 is balanced but the diffculty isn't. I find it funny that this person said the x4 diffculty is a joke. Sir, just because you guild hopped from a guild that was barely clearing any x4 content to a guild that was farming x4 content doesn't mean it is easy. Those of us raiding since the begining of DoV know how diffcult the raids are. Of course when you are doing those farm raids with people mostly decked out in EM gear the raids seem like a joke. Btw, drunder x2 is very diffcult to be done in rygorr gear, we have enough diffculty with some of the named and we have cleared all EM and some HM content. Lacking those war runes and stats boost from the EM x4 raid gear makes some of the named fight impossible. </blockquote>This guy's not too bright, you should read the other crap he posts.

Trensharo

07-12-2011, 04:10 PM

<cite>minichimi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>p3t3rl1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trensharo@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>After about 14 tries our group finally killed the 3 mages and golem, next pig guy with the disarm is just insane... what playerbase is this aimed at? because its obviously not aimed at heroic people. Which by the way, took 23 minutes to kll... when we were expecting the mob to drop gold he dropped an axe that was WORSE then the sword in pools.The loot really isn't worth it, and as my friend said before, we could of probably one grouped a x4 and got better loot then wasting our time in this zone.The Entire Zone is pretty much a waste of time, and I would go as far to say, for the drops in the zone stay what they currently are, the difficulty of the zone needs decreased by as much by half, or loot value needs doubled (all loot in the zone should be a little better then x2 loot).</blockquote>I went once, we actually killed the Pig guy and the named after. We did the 3 mage on third try.But my group was the group 1 of our Tower x2 group that cleared the tower x2. I saw no reason to return ever. We spend lik 3-4 hours to get loot inferior to x4 loot.Drunder is another example of a total lost of connection with a large chunk of the player base. Drunder is way harder than 60-80% of the EM encounters. it's harder than 80% of the tower x2. And loot if somewhere between rygor and x4.I beleive that the problem comes from the fact that the dev only interact with people from hard core raiding guilds. More Casual people are probably silent and don't even read this forum. So they design content for the players from which they get feedback and request, not for the mass.It's not some new trend, pre nerfed Kael + kael contested were already like this. After 4-5 monthes they finally decided to make those instances usbale by the player base. Ironically kale was nerfed just when the masses were about to be geared enough to go there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You did an x2 and got loot inferior to x4 loot good job there buddy.On a more serious note, the gear in Cit of Vuul is positioned well. It's a challenging raid and can be completely in a decent raid of people in T2 (Ry'Gorr) Gear (with proper Adornments) and x2 Jewels/Weapons.The gear is positioned well.The issue is the x4 EM raids are complete faceroll, as well as ToFS x2.Especially after the recent nerfs to raid mob CB... There's absolutely no excuse to be crying about the difficulty of this raid and the quality of the gear it drops.It also gives very small guilds a means of progression (PQ > Heroics > ToFS > Finish Ry'Gorr > Tower of Vuul) without having to spend hours pugging bads from public channels.</blockquote>The gear from the x2 is balanced but the diffculty isn't. I find it funny that this person said the x4 diffculty is a joke. Sir, just because you guild hopped from a guild that was barely clearing any x4 content to a guild that was farming x4 content doesn't mean it is easy. Those of us raiding since the begining of DoV know how diffcult the raids are. Of course when you are doing those farm raids with people mostly decked out in EM gear the raids seem like a joke. Btw, drunder x2 is very diffcult to be done in rygorr gear, we have enough diffculty with some of the named and we have cleared all EM and some HM content. Lacking those war runes and stats boost from the EM x4 raid gear makes some of the named fight impossible. </blockquote>This guy's not too bright, you should read the other crap he posts.</blockquote>The fail guild he referred to was killing bosses in Tower of Vuul x2 before they nerfed the Raid boss CB in a mix of PQ/Ry'Gorr/x2 gear with a mage doing 25-35k DPS in group wiht me. If he thinks it's that hard, then I dunno what to say.Bandwagon, much?

minichimi

07-12-2011, 04:21 PM

<cite>Trensharo@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>minichimi wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>p3t3rl1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trensharo@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>After about 14 tries our group finally killed the 3 mages and golem, next pig guy with the disarm is just insane... what playerbase is this aimed at? because its obviously not aimed at heroic people. Which by the way, took 23 minutes to kll... when we were expecting the mob to drop gold he dropped an axe that was WORSE then the sword in pools.The loot really isn't worth it, and as my friend said before, we could of probably one grouped a x4 and got better loot then wasting our time in this zone.The Entire Zone is pretty much a waste of time, and I would go as far to say, for the drops in the zone stay what they currently are, the difficulty of the zone needs decreased by as much by half, or loot value needs doubled (all loot in the zone should be a little better then x2 loot).</blockquote>I went once, we actually killed the Pig guy and the named after. We did the 3 mage on third try.But my group was the group 1 of our Tower x2 group that cleared the tower x2. I saw no reason to return ever. We spend lik 3-4 hours to get loot inferior to x4 loot.Drunder is another example of a total lost of connection with a large chunk of the player base. Drunder is way harder than 60-80% of the EM encounters. it's harder than 80% of the tower x2. And loot if somewhere between rygor and x4.I beleive that the problem comes from the fact that the dev only interact with people from hard core raiding guilds. More Casual people are probably silent and don't even read this forum. So they design content for the players from which they get feedback and request, not for the mass.It's not some new trend, pre nerfed Kael + kael contested were already like this. After 4-5 monthes they finally decided to make those instances usbale by the player base. Ironically kale was nerfed just when the masses were about to be geared enough to go there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You did an x2 and got loot inferior to x4 loot good job there buddy.On a more serious note, the gear in Cit of Vuul is positioned well. It's a challenging raid and can be completely in a decent raid of people in T2 (Ry'Gorr) Gear (with proper Adornments) and x2 Jewels/Weapons.The gear is positioned well.The issue is the x4 EM raids are complete faceroll, as well as ToFS x2.Especially after the recent nerfs to raid mob CB... There's absolutely no excuse to be crying about the difficulty of this raid and the quality of the gear it drops.It also gives very small guilds a means of progression (PQ > Heroics > ToFS > Finish Ry'Gorr > Tower of Vuul) without having to spend hours pugging bads from public channels.</blockquote>The gear from the x2 is balanced but the diffculty isn't. I find it funny that this person said the x4 diffculty is a joke. Sir, just because you guild hopped from a guild that was barely clearing any x4 content to a guild that was farming x4 content doesn't mean it is easy. Those of us raiding since the begining of DoV know how diffcult the raids are. Of course when you are doing those farm raids with people mostly decked out in EM gear the raids seem like a joke. Btw, drunder x2 is very diffcult to be done in rygorr gear, we have enough diffculty with some of the named and we have cleared all EM and some HM content. Lacking those war runes and stats boost from the EM x4 raid gear makes some of the named fight impossible. </blockquote>This guy's not too bright, you should read the other crap he posts.</blockquote>The fail guild he referred to was killing bosses in Tower of Vuul x2 before they nerfed the Raid boss CB in a mix of PQ/Ry'Gorr/x2 gear with a mage doing 25-35k DPS in group wiht me. If he thinks it's that hard, then I dunno what to say.Bandwagon, much?</blockquote>Ride coattails, much?

Trensharo

07-12-2011, 04:50 PM

Anonymous forum persona created 3 months ago... I'll bite...Detagging atm and joining Blackhawks so I can progress through EQ2 raid content.Didn't know leaving a terrible guild was criminal and in the future I'll make sure to inform all raid guilds to halt progression while I look for a guild I fit in well with.Not feeding you anymore. Bye <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

p3t3rl1

07-12-2011, 06:56 PM

Not sure who this minichimi person is. Dude post alot of craps, suprised he is not banned yet. Anyways back to our discussion. Have you kiled the last two named in Drunder x2? The rest is can be called cake, those two are not. Do you not see a serious flaw in progression? Drunder x2 drops loot inferior to x4 loot and yet it is far more diffcult than Kraytoc. It is suppose to come in between rygorr and x4 armor so its diffculty need to reflect that. Sir I have grouped with you before, back before you joined any raid guilds. You were a decent player no doubt even lacking raid gear at the time. However, there is no need to deface other guilds here. Just because other guilds are not doing as well doesn't mean they suck. They maybe inexperienced or lack some keyclasses etc. Saying you are better than the rest of your guild makes you look very immature. You are bordersteeping on elitism. Don't mean to be a personal attack here, just that I dislike people who just jumps in and say the content is too easy when they obviously havn't being doing content progressively since the start.

Trensharo

07-13-2011, 01:55 AM

<cite>p3t3rl1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not sure who this minichimi person is. Dude post alot of craps, suprised he is not banned yet. Anyways back to our discussion. Have you kiled the last two named in Drunder x2? The rest is can be called cake, those two are not. I killed all but the last one. We ran out of time and peeps had to go. They do require better than Ry'Gorr gear, but the zone is designed to be completed in a progressive fashion. The first 4 bosses drop better than Ry'Gorr/ToFS x2 gear.Do you not see a serious flaw in progression? Drunder x2 drops loot inferior to x4 loot and yet it is far more diffcult than Kraytoc. It is suppose to come in between rygorr and x4 armor so its diffculty need to reflect that.It's an x2 Raid and it's not exactly "far more difficult" than Kraytoc. That being said, being limited to 12 people max can present some challenges. I tend to think the encounter designs in the Citadel are a bit more challenging than Kraytoc, though. The progressive nature of the zone can be bad for guilds just starting out jumping into it, or undergeared guilds who want to complete the zone for upgrades. I think it should have been a bit bigger so that you could do more at each "Tier" of progression within the zone (i.e. 3 - 3 - 3 bosses instead of 2 with the way the CM/CC requirements increase). Some of the trash in this zone is overtuned even for an X2, just like the instances. I've never had my mana drained so fast by a trash mob before.Sir I have grouped with you before, back before you joined any raid guilds. You were a decent player no doubt even lacking raid gear at the time. However, there is no need to deface other guilds here. Just because other guilds are not doing as well doesn't mean they suck. They maybe inexperienced or lack some keyclasses etc. Saying you are better than the rest of your guild makes you look very immature. You are bordersteeping on elitism. Don't mean to be a personal attack here, just that I dislike people who just jumps in and say the content is too easy when they obviously havn't being doing content progressively since the start. 1. I didn't deface any other guilds. I didn't even name them. 2. It had nothing to do with inexperience, and it had nothing to do with missing classes. I've already said they had some good players, really good players. But when half an x4 raid is not ready, and the players are too lazy to get ready there is only so much you can do about that.I spend 10+ hours a day (well, more than that, even, on average) online trying to help people run Heroics (trying because some people preferred to run SF zones for appearance gear, play low level alts, etc.). I soloed trash MOBs in Kael Contested for Chests to give gear to people. I had 100% Raid Attendance. I gave away Jaundice and Lava Ruby gems when they were selling for 200+ easily off the broker so they could craft gear (and got flamed for trading my craft upgrade from IK for a Jaundice so the Guild Leader/MT can upgrade his boots). That's not an elitist attitude. I'm anything *but* elitist. I'm a dedicated player, but I do value the vast amounts of time I do (or plan to) invest in this game. I continued doing this even after I left the guild, and if any of them needs a group or needs help with anything, I don't hesitate to help them. Ask them.3. It's hard to do content progression from the start when you logged into DoV in April at level 48. By the time I dinged 90 some guilds had already cleared much of the EM content. I'll try not to be low level and miss the start of the next content expansion, though <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></blockquote>Red Text.

Corydonn

07-13-2011, 03:06 AM

These zones were tested by groups using full Ry'Gorr armor, Maybe they were a bit more skilled than the average player but their gear was below average.Maybe if players would run some instances to gain their gear instead of buying the gear and updates, You'd be ready for the zones.

theriatis

07-13-2011, 03:58 AM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote>These zones were tested by groups using full Ry'Gorr armor, Maybe they were a bit more skilled than the average player but their gear was below average.Maybe if players would run some instances to gain their gear instead of buying the gear and updates, You'd be ready for the zones.</blockquote>Yep, and now where back to the old "insulting and accusation" Case... yeah, right. Because you don't understandwhats happening here and if "anybody else can do it in paper you MUST have no 1337 skillz !!!!11!1!".(And yes, i am insulted with the "bought your gear". I never bought even one piece of it).Lets just say, with 6 years of Raiding experience, a whole group of EM x4 Raiders, EM x4 equipped, every Pieceearned, got their behinds handed to them. Guard, Mystic, Templar, Illusionist, Wizard, Troub/2nd Wizard.So stop that whining, bit*ing, the accusations and insults. If you have nothing constructive, there's plenty of other threads to Troll.Theriatis.

Odys

07-13-2011, 09:03 AM

<cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>After about 14 tries our group finally killed the 3 mages and golem, next pig guy with the disarm is just insane... what playerbase is this aimed at? because its obviously not aimed at heroic people. Which by the way, took 23 minutes to kll... when we were expecting the mob to drop gold he dropped an axe that was WORSE then the sword in pools.The loot really isn't worth it, and as my friend said before, we could of probably one grouped a x4 and got better loot then wasting our time in this zone.The Entire Zone is pretty much a waste of time, and I would go as far to say, for the drops in the zone stay what they currently are, the difficulty of the zone needs decreased by as much by half, or loot value needs doubled (all loot in the zone should be a little better then x2 loot).</blockquote>I went once, we actually killed the Pig guy and the named after. We did the 3 mage on third try.But my group was the group 1 of our Tower x2 group that cleared the tower x2. I saw no reason to return ever. We spend lik 3-4 hours to get loot inferior to x4 loot.Drunder is another example of a total lost of connection with a large chunk of the player base. Drunder is way harder than 60-80% of the EM encounters. it's harder than 80% of the tower x2. And loot if somewhere between rygor and x4.I beleive that the problem comes from the fact that the dev only interact with people from hard core raiding guilds. More Casual people are probably silent and don't even read this forum. So they design content for the players from which they get feedback and request, not for the mass.It's not some new trend, pre nerfed Kael + kael contested were already like this. After 4-5 monthes they finally decided to make those instances usbale by the player base. Ironically kale was nerfed just when the masses were about to be geared enough to go there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You did an x2 and got loot inferior to x4 loot good job there buddy.On a more serious note, the gear in Cit of Vuul is positioned well. It's a challenging raid and can be completely in a decent raid of people in T2 (Ry'Gorr) Gear (with proper Adornments) and x2 Jewels/Weapons.The gear is positioned well.The issue is the x4 EM raids are complete faceroll, as well as ToFS x2.Especially after the recent nerfs to raid mob CB... There's absolutely no excuse to be crying about the difficulty of this raid and the quality of the gear it drops.It also gives very small guilds a means of progression (PQ > Heroics > ToFS > Finish Ry'Gorr > Tower of Vuul) without having to spend hours pugging bads from public channels.</blockquote>You missunderstood me, i was claiming that x4 gear is better than drunder.We cleared one drunder zone in x2 gear + rygor (some PQ too) gear. And i decided not to loose anymore time in that place. 2 groups like the one we had can clear 1/2 of the EMx4, and i m in an open raid that is almost done for the x4. Due to our rules i haven't got much armor (indeed i have one piece) yet but my time is coming (people in my raid had ton of DKP from SF ... DKP should had been reset when DOV came out but it was not).It's not only me, our x2 raid leader don't want to go back either, he also consider than 3-4 hours is way too long. And he is not the kind of player that love easy mode.I know a couple of people doing drunder (for alts?), all have made some good progress in the hard mode content(so they do it in 90-120mn).Our group in drunder had a sound composition and good players, the average pick up group (mixure of skilled and bad players, non optimized composition) won't even pass the first ring.

Tyrus Dracofire

07-13-2011, 10:46 AM

Devs, just take it down, Drundar isnt done throughly and not polished as it said.my dirge couldnt get close to do melee, i got hate buff on tank, i get 1hitted by trash mobs, i have required Crit mit needed, but that is too much, i get 1-hitted more than 10 times before first boss, and there is 3 more set of mobs before that named first boss in triangle room.it not funny to get 1hitted when i attempt to do melee, dirge got too much hates to get closer.something not right.my guild just tried it last nite, most of them claiming they wont be back for drundar zones because repairs are too costly vs the risk and not able to get any rewards for efforts.devs is serving elite players, not to general player base. that is enough and most players now hate it.

Xenxex

07-13-2011, 12:01 PM

Drunder was not meant to be easy. Everything isnt going to be a cake walk like Ascent or Pools. Zones will at times require you to die lots to learn encounters and placement for mobs and nothing is wrong with that. If you are getting 1 shot by ae hits then you need to position better or get better gear before attempting the zone. PQ gear is by no means the standard used to instance everywhere no matter what the 80s channel may tell you.

therodge

07-13-2011, 12:38 PM

<cite>Xenxex@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Drunder was not meant to be easy. Everything isnt going to be a cake walk like Ascent or Pools. Zones will at times require you to die lots to learn encounters and placement for mobs and nothing is wrong with that. If you are getting 1 shot by ae hits then you need to position better or get better gear before attempting the zone. PQ gear is by no means the standard used to instance everywhere no matter what the 80s channel may tell you.</blockquote>as somone whos cleared the first drunder zone, your assuming somone inonly pq gear gets 1 shotted when they one shot the trouby in emx4 gear better gear wont help

Silzin

07-13-2011, 12:40 PM

I don’t think any one is talking about using PQ gear for these zones. Most of the people are saying that they are in ether all EM or mostly HM raid gear and they are still getting one-shotted in here. That means they probably have 180+ CM and the mobs are not critting them at all but are still one-shotting them, something is wrong here. Is an instance or encounter of any sort requires the people to have gear that is higher within progression to be able to complete then that is broken and needs to be scaled bake. This is called progression, it is easer to see in raid content, but it needs to take place in heroic content also. If a heroic zone requires raid gear to complete then it needs to drop raid level gear, like ToRZ HM for instance.

Trensharo

07-13-2011, 01:37 PM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenshero@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>After about 14 tries our group finally killed the 3 mages and golem, next pig guy with the disarm is just insane... what playerbase is this aimed at? because its obviously not aimed at heroic people. Which by the way, took 23 minutes to kll... when we were expecting the mob to drop gold he dropped an axe that was WORSE then the sword in pools.The loot really isn't worth it, and as my friend said before, we could of probably one grouped a x4 and got better loot then wasting our time in this zone.The Entire Zone is pretty much a waste of time, and I would go as far to say, for the drops in the zone stay what they currently are, the difficulty of the zone needs decreased by as much by half, or loot value needs doubled (all loot in the zone should be a little better then x2 loot).</blockquote>I went once, we actually killed the Pig guy and the named after. We did the 3 mage on third try.But my group was the group 1 of our Tower x2 group that cleared the tower x2. I saw no reason to return ever. We spend lik 3-4 hours to get loot inferior to x4 loot.Drunder is another example of a total lost of connection with a large chunk of the player base. Drunder is way harder than 60-80% of the EM encounters. it's harder than 80% of the tower x2. And loot if somewhere between rygor and x4.I beleive that the problem comes from the fact that the dev only interact with people from hard core raiding guilds. More Casual people are probably silent and don't even read this forum. So they design content for the players from which they get feedback and request, not for the mass.It's not some new trend, pre nerfed Kael + kael contested were already like this. After 4-5 monthes they finally decided to make those instances usbale by the player base. Ironically kale was nerfed just when the masses were about to be geared enough to go there <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>You did an x2 and got loot inferior to x4 loot good job there buddy.On a more serious note, the gear in Cit of Vuul is positioned well. It's a challenging raid and can be completely in a decent raid of people in T2 (Ry'Gorr) Gear (with proper Adornments) and x2 Jewels/Weapons.The gear is positioned well.The issue is the x4 EM raids are complete faceroll, as well as ToFS x2.Especially after the recent nerfs to raid mob CB... There's absolutely no excuse to be crying about the difficulty of this raid and the quality of the gear it drops.It also gives very small guilds a means of progression (PQ > Heroics > ToFS > Finish Ry'Gorr > Tower of Vuul) without having to spend hours pugging bads from public channels.</blockquote>You missunderstood me, i was claiming that x4 gear is better than drunder.We cleared one drunder zone in x2 gear + rygor (some PQ too) gear. And i decided not to loose anymore time in that place. 2 groups like the one we had can clear 1/2 of the EMx4, and i m in an open raid that is almost done for the x4. Due to our rules i haven't got much armor (indeed i have one piece) yet but my time is coming (people in my raid had ton of DKP from SF ... DKP should had been reset when DOV came out but it was not).It's not only me, our x2 raid leader don't want to go back either, he also consider than 3-4 hours is way too long. And he is not the kind of player that love easy mode.I know a couple of people doing drunder (for alts?), all have made some good progress in the hard mode content(so they do it in 90-120mn).Our group in drunder had a sound composition and good players, the average pick up group (mixure of skilled and bad players, non optimized composition) won't even pass the first ring. </blockquote>Everyone has agreed that the trash MOBs in those heroics are overtuned. The War Boars in the x2 Raid were overtuned as well as the Aviaks or whatever the hell they are which 2 shot your mana bar in the span of < 5 seconds. They need to thin the amount of trash in the raid zones so people have more time to work on the encounters, and there's no excuse for having THAT much trash in an x2 raid zone.I don't want it to be another PR, but 4 groups of 6 overpowered War Boars (nerfed in last patch, though) were a bit much, among other things.Not to mention the trash agros from 2 miles away, as well, in the Heroic Instances.

Hennyo

07-13-2011, 02:23 PM

If you look at these zones, along with many other things in this expansion from the viewpoint of someone who could actually clear them, but struggled doing so, in the sense that they understand what made them hard, one sees a reappearing issue. DoV content before nerfs requires ENTIRE groups to have the maximum possible gear they could go into content on their progression. Then once you have that, having anything short of an almost perfectly ideal group setup will make things close to impossible. Even once you have the entry barriers down of gear and group makeup, there tends to be overly involved scripts that do very little to let players know how they work. After you have all that down, many things in DoV are tuned to their output damage based on maximum possible debuffs a mob could receive at all times, and if for any reason debuffs are not there, expect damage that can't be dealt with. Also things like 180 degree AOE auto attacks, brutal AOE's that punish groups for standing in the slightly wrong spot, detriments that require split second reaction times to cure, all while dealing with a plethora of random stuns, stifles, power drains and other effects, such as knock backs, all add to the overall difficultly of an encounter. This whole list of stuff to deal with is standard on just about any DoV zone before it was nerfed. While all of that previous stuff I listed has been in the game in the past, it wasn't as common, or needed to be dealt with simultaneously near as often, DoV has its own completely new things to make some encounters super challenging. I will focus on two of the more common new tricks that some DoV encounters have, whole group situational awareness fail conditions, and heroic group DPS hard checks. I will use the second heroic Drunder instance for examples, but this is more to keep things on topic than anything else. The third named in the zone, with the three skeletal adds, once you get the named to its third stage, after its adds die, and it is around 30 percent or so, it spawns a death cloud every so often on a random person in the group, and if you fail to react correctly within 1 or 2 seconds tops, it will kill anyone in the group next to it, the tank included. Such situational checks in the past were no where near as hard to make, or as punishing. The last named in the zone, particularly pre nerf was a great example of an extreme heroic DPS check, with the way the adds were. In the past heroic groups up until this point in the game could slowly kill stuff granted they could continue to follow scripts and keep stuff stabilized, in DoV there are a large number of encounters that required DPS numbers that only players skilled enough to make it in the top hardcore raid guilds could put out in the gear, encounters were intended for, something completely unrealistic for anyone but the most high end players. All in all, much of the DoV content, which currently Drunder zones happen to be a great example of, is a failure on the Devs part of comprehending the difference between a fun challenge, and crushingly frustrating ideal that a group is only as strong as its weakest link.

zanzabar

07-14-2011, 05:32 AM

Drunder was tested when PVP was enabled on test server. So it was possible to do in pq/rygorr. The version that went to PVE servers was considerably harder than the version tested.

Xenxex

07-14-2011, 10:16 AM

I dont think ive seen anything but cloth get 1 shotted in Drunder.

ffd700

07-14-2011, 10:25 AM

<cite>Xenxex@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont think ive seen anything but cloth get 1 shotted in Drunder. </blockquote>My dirge in full Ry'Gorr w/ drunder hat and 145% CM gets one shotted even while behind the mobs. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

Silzin

07-14-2011, 10:27 AM

<cite>zanzabar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Drunder was tested when PVP was enabled on test server. So it was possible to do in pq/rygorr. The version that went to PVE servers was considerably harder than the version tested.</blockquote>Also when the PVP stuff was being tested the Drunder mobs didnt have there proper amounts of PVE Potincy. that is why on drunder releace day only the raid guilds on PVP servers where able to kill the first trash mobs. on the PVP servers they didnt have PVE potince on releace... this has bin changed tho (I think)

Odys

07-14-2011, 11:07 AM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote>These zones were tested by groups using full Ry'Gorr armor, Maybe they were a bit more skilled than the average player but their gear was below average.Maybe if players would run some instances to gain their gear instead of buying the gear and updates, You'd be ready for the zones.</blockquote>It's what we had (i have only the EM x4bracer, and at that time i still had 1 PQ armor). We had a perfect (i mean compostion) group and above average players. It was doable but exhausting and non rewarding. The level skilled that players displayed there was way higher than in Emx4 or the tower (and i include final bosses).Note also that testers may had been informed of the scripts. Access to hidden information about mob ability usually trivialize encounters.

Xenxex

07-14-2011, 11:45 AM

<cite>ffd700 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xenxex@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont think ive seen anything but cloth get 1 shotted in Drunder. </blockquote>My dirge in full Ry'Gorr w/ drunder hat and 145% CM gets one shotted even while behind the mobs. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>If you are behind the mob taking dmg and being one shotted by NON-phys dmg then you need better group composition and maybe wards to support your group. For the most part on trash i dont remember them doin much but a couple weak AEs and alot of AoE physical attacks. If you are dying to physical attacks then tell your tank to up his game and you guys use even better positioning. However being 1 shotted by certain boss encounters is 100% possible if you arent up to snuff gearwise or your group composition is tank, tank, paper, paper, cloth, healer.

Corydonn

07-14-2011, 12:21 PM

p3t3rl1

07-14-2011, 12:34 PM

<cite>Hennyo wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you look at these zones, along with many other things in this expansion from the viewpoint of someone who could actually clear them, but struggled doing so, in the sense that they understand what made them hard, one sees a reappearing issue. DoV content before nerfs requires ENTIRE groups to have the maximum possible gear they could go into content on their progression. Then once you have that, having anything short of an almost perfectly ideal group setup will make things close to impossible. Even once you have the entry barriers down of gear and group makeup, there tends to be overly involved scripts that do very little to let players know how they work. After you have all that down, many things in DoV are tuned to their output damage based on maximum possible debuffs a mob could receive at all times, and if for any reason debuffs are not there, expect damage that can't be dealt with. Also things like 180 degree AOE auto attacks, brutal AOE's that punish groups for standing in the slightly wrong spot, detriments that require split second reaction times to cure, all while dealing with a plethora of random stuns, stifles, power drains and other effects, such as knock backs, all add to the overall difficultly of an encounter. This whole list of stuff to deal with is standard on just about any DoV zone before it was nerfed. While all of that previous stuff I listed has been in the game in the past, it wasn't as common, or needed to be dealt with simultaneously near as often, DoV has its own completely new things to make some encounters super challenging. I will focus on two of the more common new tricks that some DoV encounters have, whole group situational awareness fail conditions, and heroic group DPS hard checks. I will use the second heroic Drunder instance for examples, but this is more to keep things on topic than anything else. The third named in the zone, with the three skeletal adds, once you get the named to its third stage, after its adds die, and it is around 30 percent or so, it spawns a death cloud every so often on a random person in the group, and if you fail to react correctly within 1 or 2 seconds tops, it will kill anyone in the group next to it, the tank included. Such situational checks in the past were no where near as hard to make, or as punishing. The last named in the zone, particularly pre nerf was a great example of an extreme heroic DPS check, with the way the adds were. In the past heroic groups up until this point in the game could slowly kill stuff granted they could continue to follow scripts and keep stuff stabilized, in DoV there are a large number of encounters that required DPS numbers that only players skilled enough to make it in the top hardcore raid guilds could put out in the gear, encounters were intended for, something completely unrealistic for anyone but the most high end players. All in all, much of the DoV content, which currently Drunder zones happen to be a great example of, is a failure on the Devs part of comprehending the difference between a fun challenge, and crushingly frustrating ideal that a group is only as strong as its weakest link. </blockquote>+1. This man summed it up pretty good!