The Age of Discovery | 2011

[betatester7]

<p><span style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Lucida Grande', Verdana, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="color: #ff0000;"> EverQuest II: Age of Discovery — November 2011</span></span></p><p>Beastlord coming too</p><p>Lore Fan Faire here</p>

[Cusashorn]

So sure, are we?

[Hilt]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>So sure, are we?</blockquote><p>Yeah it was just announced...Nov 2001 Age of Discover is the next expansion.</p><p>Eq2wwire.com  has the details...</p>

[PsiaMeese]

<p>Isn't it nice that Beastlord is no longer a censored word by the forum?</p><p>I'm so looking forward to Kerra lore to connect the dots back to the Khati Sha.</p>

[Tigress]

<p>are beastlords supposed to be kerra?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Tigress wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>are beastlords supposed to be kerra?</p></blockquote><p>The Vah Shir created the Beastlords, but they all but died when Luclin exploded.. something about how the very concept of the Beastlord couldn't exist without the Vah Shir, which is why all the other races lost the ability to control animals.</p>

[Aneova]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Tigress wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>are beastlords supposed to be kerra?</p></blockquote><p>The Vah Shir created the Beastlords, but they all but died when Luclin exploded.. something about how the very concept of the Beastlord couldn't exist without the Vah Shir, which is why all the other races lost the ability to control animals.</p></blockquote><p>But Wardens and Shaman control animals just fine .... /ducks and hides from the coming fireballs</p>

[Meatmonster]

<p> Did they announce what the background of the expansion will be? Most all of the "classic" Norrath has been done except for Highkeep and assorted islands? </p>

[Galithdor]

<p>Well seeing as the expansion is named after a timeline in lore (IIRC) we MIGHT be getting something new, I dunno...I'm really itching for some lore on the expansion now hah</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>EQ1 is getting a new continent.  (This one?)</p><p><img src="http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/agh1950/EQ000829.jpg" /></p><div>Perhaps we too will be exploring the far side of the world? </div><div>If they do go that direction, I can only hope they spend some effort on the background lore to accompany it.</div>

[Anestacia]

<p>I have a feeling we wont be seeing any new land masses with this expansion.  If it was going to be a complete new continent I think it would have been a major bullet point and it was not. It was said some weeks back that the expansions were going to sell mostly features while content would be given in free updates.  We will know more after the panels today I suppose but I think we will get the rebuilt Freeport and thats about it.  I mean, with Velious still coming out in pieces I suppose thats ok but it just doesnt feel right to have a new expansion with nowhere new to go to but times change I suppose. </p>

[Rezikai]

<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EQ1 is getting a new continent.  (This one?)</p><p><img src="http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t105/agh1950/EQ000829.jpg" /></p><div>Perhaps we too will be exploring the far side of the world? </div><div>If they do go that direction, I can only hope they spend some effort on the background lore to accompany it.</div></blockquote><p>Hmm maybe Mary,.. the elves always had their towers up on Faydwer's eastern shore to protect against the evil beyond the horizon to the east, though it never came in the age of turmoil.</p><p>As for beastlords, didnt vhalen say on the old EQ2 boards that of the followers of the Beastlord profession had all but ended except 1 beastlord left that went into hiding?</p>

[Ragefighter]

<p>in the content panel today they said something like there will be an event series that will pan out the beastlord lore.</p><p>They said something like we will do a quest to help bring back a spirit that powers the beastlord.</p><p>So they are prolly going to locate and harness or worship that one BL or the spirit of the <span >Vah Shir maybe?</span></p><p>from how they talked about them it seems like a pretty cool class.</p><p>Their "pet" is more than just a minion but another part of their spirit.  like they are linked together and will have synergistic attacks and other cool things.</p><p>I am really excited about all the new stuff they showed us!!</p><p>ps</p><p>They didn't say anything about a new islands but they are going to totally revamp freeport (and next year qeynos) and they said velious is no where near done with.  he kept saying "you know in everquest velious had lots of dragons <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" they said velious is going to get more stuff till 2013. and they will keep the content patches quarterly.</p>

[ke'la]

<p>The Lore Reason that Beastlords where gone and are now comming back is that the "Truesprit" wich is what allow Beastlords to bond with thier Warders retreated at the same time all the gods did. Now that the gods are returning so is the "Truesprit" however one of the evil gods has been trying to tap it for thier own means, and so it has been "tainted" and the Live Quest that will bring back Beastlords is basically us trying to cleanse that "taint".</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>5 to one says it's Inny fault.</p>

[Stubbswick]

<p>I get the feeling "Age of Discovery" is more or less a "let's think of a semi-cool sounding name that doesn't really commit us to anything specific".</p><p>As far as content in the expansion (something they really didn't touch on at fanfaire much at all), it's going to be a continuation of Velious.  We still have parts of Eastern Wastes (although I think that's all coming with GU61 in August).  And then we have the whole other half of Velious - Skyshrine, Dragon Necropolis, Temple of Veeshan, Western Wastes, etc.  So I think that's gonna keep going for another year or so at least, maybe even a third Velious expansion.  So maybe that's what we're supposed to be "discovering".</p><p>Also, I spoke briefly with Cronyn and he sort of confirmed that we're not going to be discovering a whole new continent or anything crazy like that.  Also, he wanted to make it clear that we're not entering a new "Age".  We will still be in the "Age of Destiny".</p>

[Arianah]

<p>I remember some lore from a RPG book if I'm remembering correctly, being quoted much much earlier on the forums mentioning the spirit Sahteb Mahlni. I think that that could be a very possible part of the story line.</p><p><em><strong>Sahteb Mahlni, The Feral Spirit</strong></em></p><p><em> </em></p><p><em>Sahteb Mahlni is the most powerful of the known animal spirits and is believed to be the embodiment and source of animal instincts. Followers of Sahteb Mahlni are exclusively Vah Shir who believe true wisdom and power come from understanding and controlling the primal inner spirit within all living creatures. The opposites of life and death, predator and prey, and physical and spiritual are the primal balances of existence, and upon death all things return to a spiritual state until reborn into the new flesh. Only through praise, reverence, and devotion to Sahteb Mahlni – the greatest of the ancestor spirits and the balance of life and death – can enlightenment be achieved. Vah Shir of all dispositions, from the peaceful contemplative shaman to the fierce, bloodthirsty beastlord hear the calling of Sahteb Mahlni. As an embodiment of the primal balance, Sahteb Mahlni is neutral. When the Feral Spirit is described in the physical form, it is as an ever-changing composite creature made from all Norrath’s animals.</em></p>

[Cusashorn]

Sahteb Mahlni was a spirit introduced with EQOA, and no mention in EQlive. However, there's no reason to dismiss him from the storylines, as he would be the best representative of the spirits that the Vah Shir have always worshiped. I could see him taking part in the story as well.

[Iskandar]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Sahteb Mahlni was a spirit introduced with EQOA, and no mention in EQlive. However, there's no reason to dismiss him from the storylines, as he would be the best representative of the spirits that the Vah Shir have always worshiped. I could see him taking part in the story as well.</blockquote><p>During EQ1, Sahteb was mentioned once or twice (more or less just in passing) during the Beastlord epic 2.0 quests. I don't recall any other direct references to him other than that tho. It'd be nice to see a bit more development on him (or even the shaman's True Spirits, which I would assume are somehow related to or conencted to him).</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I can't be sure but the Beastlord may be a live event that takes place in November.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Any knews on what AoD will entail? I guess this is the changing of Ages as well.</span></p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I can't be sure but the Beastlord may be a live event that takes place in November.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Any knews on what AoD will entail? I guess this is the changing of Ages as well.</span></p></blockquote><p>First a post a few positions above yours stated that Cronyn said that this does not mark an age change. Since he is the "lore dev" I would go with him on that.</p><p>As for Content in AoD, well SJ wants to do something differant where CONTENT, such as new overland zones, Dungons, etc. will come out as part of the Free GUs, while NEW FEATURES are what comes out in the Paid for expainsions.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I can't be sure but the Beastlord may be a live event that takes place in November.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Any knews on what AoD will entail? I guess this is the changing of Ages as well.</span></p></blockquote><p>I think the Fan Fair stuff I read said the BL quest line is comming out immediately after the expansion. Actually it would make a lot more sense if the questline to restore the spirit came before the class was introduced but hey I'm not the one being paid to make those kind of decisions.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><span ><p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I can't be sure but the Beastlord may be a live event that takes place in November.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Any knews on what AoD will entail? I guess this is the changing of Ages as well.</span></p></blockquote><p>First a post a few positions above yours stated that Cronyn said that this does not mark an age change. Since he is the "lore dev" I would go with him on that.</p><p>As for Content in AoD, well SJ wants to do something differant where CONTENT, such as new overland zones, Dungons, etc. will come out as part of the Free GUs, while NEW FEATURES are what comes out in the Paid for expainsions.</p></span></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Like I said I couldn't be sure, I was posting in response to something on the first page so I missed the comment in question, and the fact that the Expansion is coming in November.</span></p>

[Cronyn]

<p>Heya folks!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Just to clear up a couple of points:</p><p>Yes, the "Age of Discovery" title really is just pointing to the new things coming in the expansion - our world is still in the Age of Destiny.</p><p>Secondly, the first beastlord lore event is coming out with 61, and should be on test here really soon.  There's a good and evil quest line, each telling a piece of the story from their point of view - these two quests are the start of the overall lore.  There will be additional content released for beastlords as well, including class quests and such that I have planned upon the expansion release, so there should be a solid base of supporting lore for the class once it goes live.</p><p>As I said at the lore panel, I did some researching into beastlord lore from EQ1, and actually found some surprising little tidbits about them that I don't believe were ever revealed to players, so I'm hoping to tie all that lore together in EQ2.  Hopefully you guys like where the story with them goes in our game.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As I said at the lore panel, I did some researching into beastlord lore from EQ1, and actually found some surprising little tidbits about them that I don't believe were ever revealed to players, so I'm hoping to tie all that lore together in EQ2.  Hopefully you guys like where the story with them goes in our game.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Ahh, a nice little 'ex deus machina', that untold EQ1 lore. Well played.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As I said at the lore panel, I did some researching into beastlord lore from EQ1, and actually found some surprising little tidbits about them that I don't believe were ever revealed to players, so I'm hoping to tie all that lore together in EQ2.  Hopefully you guys like where the story with them goes in our game.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Ahh, a nice little 'ex deus machina', that untold EQ1 lore. Well played.</p></blockquote><p>Accually V'halin wrote alot of "Backstory" stuff when building EQL lore as well as EQ2 stuff...so there are catologs of data bites that can be mind if they so choose...ofcourse being effectivly the new DMs they could just handwave new stuff in too.</p>

[DeBasilisk]

<p>Having played EQ and EQ2, the former since Velious and the latter from launch, I have concluded the following:</p><p>The GMs have a complicated backstory/lore generating machine consisting of a hat full of cut out names of important Norrath people, places and prophecies.</p><p>Mad lib style print outs are generated with a d20 and a dartboard. Names are drawn by a blindfolded dev. and put into the form. Programmers are told to translate the stories into graphics. This happens twice a year, wash rinse repeat.</p><p>For example:</p><p>_____hundred years ago, the evil____was sent to____for the heinous crime of_____. In the land of______the people of_____used_____to try and ressurrect (said villain). Players killed_____and set in motion the prophecy of______. Only the players can fix______.  -Insert reference to Mayong as necessary-</p><p>And you know what? After a decade, I still Love it!</p>

[Cronyn]

<p>Now why would you make outlandish statements about our lore process??</p><p>First of all, it's not a d20, it's 3d6 (2nd Edition >>>> 3rd Edition or anything later).  And it isn't a dartboard, it is a "Leap to Loreclusions" mat that we jump on backwards (thus, no blindfold needed).  And it happens three times a year.  So there.  The programmers/graphics thing is pretty close, though.</p><p>Also, all references to Mayong going forward will end with, "And then players stab him in the FACE."  Probably.  We're hashing that one out still, and there hasn't been a Loreclusions leap since Fan Faire.  I'll let you know.</p>

[DeBasilisk]

<p>Dude, I'd buy Leap to Loreclusions in a heartbeat. $19.99 at an online order form near you!</p><p>As for the 2nd edition thing, all I can say is to each their own, but the less I have to hear about THACO the better...</p>

[Cusashorn]

Cronyn, Vhalen never had this wicked a sense of humor. Bravo my good dwarf, bravo! XD

[Aneova]

<p>/cracks open a keg of ale in Cronyn's honor</p>

[kelesia]

<p>Vhalen was a god of lore. I got to meet him once, and I was so impressed.  He's on the level of Tolkein to me - just that amazing.  Cron, I really hope you live up to his reputation and surpass it. Us roleplayers really like our lore.  Oh, and while you are writing, can i have the reason why freebloods are welcome in qeynos.</p>

[troodon311]

<p><cite>Lillya@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Vhalen was a god of lore. I got to meet him once</p></blockquote><p>Color me jealous.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Lillya@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Vhalen was a god of lore. I got to meet him once, and I was so impressed.  He's on the level of Tolkein to me - just that amazing.  Cron, I really hope you live up to his reputation and surpass it. Us roleplayers really like our lore.  Oh, and while you are writing, can i have the reason why freebloods are welcome in qeynos.</p></blockquote><p>Freebloods never did anything wrong. Being a vampire doesn't automatically make them evil. Even in D&D, A vampire turned against his will has no obligation to behave and do evil like regular vampires, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed in Qeynos unless they choose to be evil and act on thier vampire instincts.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Freebloods never did anything wrong. Being a vampire doesn't automatically make them evil. Even in D&D, A vampire turned against his will has no obligation to behave and do evil like regular vampires, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed in Qeynos unless they choose to be evil and act on thier vampire instincts.</blockquote><p>And there's plenty of evil Gnolls running around just outside Qeynos for the Freeblood to tap when they get the munchies. They're sorta like a furry kegger <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Chefren]

<p>I would like to see an expansion where no-one needs to save the world from new supervillain X (or old supervillain Y making a comeback or both + Mayong in a cameo role) because there would be no threat to the world. Instead we would have just normal power-crazed people wrestling for power over a land without quoting Masters of the Universe ("I have the power") or even being raid bosses themselves. They would be normal people with normal, non-alien motives, looking to take back what was lost or avenging a perceived sleight or acting out an ancient feud. Add in intrigue, secret orders, assassins , mercenaries (a raid could be taking back your own guild hall from them?) and double agents.. you know a bit of low fantasy for a change.</p><p>The Maj'Dul courts factions were nice and they had this feel of reality that nothing void-, evil deity or dragon- related had.</p>

[Cronyn]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lillya@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Vhalen was a god of lore. I got to meet him once, and I was so impressed.  He's on the level of Tolkein to me - just that amazing.  Cron, I really hope you live up to his reputation and surpass it. Us roleplayers really like our lore.  Oh, and while you are writing, can i have the reason why freebloods are welcome in qeynos.</p></blockquote><p>Freebloods never did anything wrong. Being a vampire doesn't automatically make them evil. Even in D&D, A vampire turned against his will has no obligation to behave and do evil like regular vampires, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be allowed in Qeynos unless they choose to be evil and act on thier vampire instincts.</p></blockquote><p>Yep!  We wanted to have these vampires be free-willed vamps, which means they can choose how to use their powers and deal with their instincts.  We felt this made them more dynamic on the whole, and that vampire fans could choose how their character thinks and acts.</p><p>You'll be getting Freeblood lore in Freeport in 62, which will tell part of their story from the evil's point of view.  When Qeynos gets its revamp (ha, re"vamp"), you'll find out more about what happened there.</p><p>And, time permitting, there's still some Freeblood content that I WANT to do to support their story a bit more.  Honestly, though, our collective plates are quite full right now, so I can't promise anything right now.  Hopefully, though.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Mythal_EQ2]

<p>Cronyn there's something I wanted to ask with regards to Freeport and the racial quest/lore/story lines that it'll introduce...</p><p>I understand that every evil (or neutral as well I suppose) race will have a quest hub in the new Freeport that'll give it flavour and pride -- and that's great. What about those of us who have betrayed though?</p><p>Will we still be able to participate in the racial questlines even though we're no longer "evil"? Or will there be racial-appropriate questlines in the Qeynos revamp for betrayers?</p><p>D.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p><cite>Daervon@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I understand that every evil (or neutral as well I suppose) race will have a quest hub in the new Freeport that'll give it flavour and pride -- and that's great. What about those of us who have betrayed though?</blockquote><p>That's a good question! My Necro is a Wood Elf, and they're not exactly well-known for being eeeeeeevil (hearing a Dark Elf in Freeport say "An evil Wood Elf? Truly we have WON!" was sooooo worth it tho!) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />  When the racial starter quests were added in, there wasn't a Wood Elf option in Freeport -- I had to sneak back into Qeynos and do the one there. It would be a nice twist to see an "evil" Wood Elf (or Fae or High Elf or Froglok) quest slipped in with the rest <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Cronyn]

<p>Actually, no - there won't be racial quests for betrayers, as far as we're planning.  Each of the starting races in the cities are woven into the overall story of that city, where betrayers are a story unto themselves (as it should be).  However, as there is a quest for every race that begins in a given city, some races will be able to do their quests in the cities (human for example, since they start in both).  We're aware of that.</p><p>We're putting a ton of effort into these revamps, and there's a lot to consider, so we felt this was the best decision given the resources.  We hope you enjoy what we are giving you, though!</p>

[Firecracker]

<p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, no - there won't be racial quests for betrayers, as far as we're planning.  Each of the starting races in the cities are woven into the overall story of that city, where betrayers are a story unto themselves (as it should be).  However, as there is a quest for every race that begins in a given city, some races will be able to do their quests in the cities (human for example, since they start in both).  We're aware of that.</p></blockquote><p><span ><p>I have to ask why can't the race quest's still acknowledge what race you are and still allow you do the quest because if this quest was there from the beginning before betraying surely most players who betrayed would of done them quest's before betraying since betraying can’t be started until level 10. Just saying if I wanted to sneak back into city after the revamp for either cities to have the option to do them quest's especially if quest rewards a house item please?</p></span></p>

[Mythal_EQ2]

<p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, no - there won't be racial quests for betrayers, as far as we're planning.  Each of the starting races in the cities are woven into the overall story of that city, where betrayers are a story unto themselves (as it should be).  However, as there is a quest for every race that begins in a given city, some races will be able to do their quests in the cities (human for example, since they start in both).  We're aware of that.</p><p>We're putting a ton of effort into these revamps, and there's a lot to consider, so we felt this was the best decision given the resources.  We hope you enjoy what we are giving you, though!</p></blockquote><p>That's fine though you didn't answer the other part of my question... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p><p>As a betrayer, will I be able to go back to Freeport and do the Dark Elf quests, even though I am a citizen of Qeynos? or would I need to betray back to evil side for that? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Cronyn]

<p>Oop, I misunderstood the question.  Eventually I'll learn to read, which will work out better for everyone!</p><p>Yeah, we're not planning to predicate the quests on faction, just on race.  So in theory yes, you could sneak back into Freeport and do your racial line even though you betrayed.</p><p>This COULD change, but for now, that's the idea.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Lodrelhai]

<p>Since neutral races have racial quests in both cities, can the same character do his/her racial quest in both cities?</p><p>And for the Beastlord intro questline, will exiles have a choice to do either the good or the evil version?  Actually, will anyone have a choice to do either the good or evil version?  I've a few characters who won't betray their home but prefer working on the other side when they can.  And before you say that's impossible my little arasai did all the good Anashti Sul prelude quests, so if it was possible then why isn't it now?  (And lemme tell you, sneaking her lvl-10 hind end into Qeynos was an adventure!)</p>

[Cronyn]

<p>In theory, neutrals could run both quests, yes.</p><p>And for the beastlord preludes, Exiles should be able to do either/or, but only one line.  Choose, but choose wisely.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Eileah]

<p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, no - there won't be racial quests for betrayers, as far as we're planning.  Each of the starting races in the cities are woven into the overall story of that city, where betrayers are a story unto themselves (as it should be).  However, as there is a quest for every race that begins in a given city, some races will be able to do their quests in the cities (human for example, since they start in both).  We're aware of that.</p><p>We're putting a ton of effort into these revamps, and there's a lot to consider, so we felt this was the best decision given the resources.  We hope you enjoy what we are giving you, though!</p></blockquote><p>Since you are revamping the racial quests I wold love to see better rewards for them, something that isn't outgrown. I really don't want another piece of gear that I outgrow eventually, house items have by far been the best rewards, hence the many alts rolled and deleted just for the HIE flowers.</p><p>Personally I'd love a reward of the town centerpieces, the fountains, gardens etc that are in the center of all the burbs (the disco area). Recreating those as house item rewards for racial quests would be awesome and it would retain a small piece of the history from the original burbs after the revamp.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Eileah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, no - there won't be racial quests for betrayers, as far as we're planning.  Each of the starting races in the cities are woven into the overall story of that city, where betrayers are a story unto themselves (as it should be).  However, as there is a quest for every race that begins in a given city, some races will be able to do their quests in the cities (human for example, since they start in both).  We're aware of that.</p><p>We're putting a ton of effort into these revamps, and there's a lot to consider, so we felt this was the best decision given the resources.  We hope you enjoy what we are giving you, though!</p></blockquote><p>Since you are revamping the racial quests I wold love to see better rewards for them, something that isn't outgrown. I really don't want another piece of gear that I outgrow eventually, house items have by far been the best rewards, hence the many alts rolled and deleted just for the HIE flowers.</p><p>Personally I'd love a reward of the town centerpieces, the fountains, gardens etc that are in the center of all the burbs (the disco area). Recreating those as house item rewards for racial quests would be awesome and it would retain a small piece of the history from the original burbs after the revamp.</p></blockquote><p>Yes please. i'd very much love to get something more than a level 1 CUP OF TEA that lasts 10 minutes for a racial heritage reward.</p>

[Felshades]

<p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Heya folks!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />  Just to clear up a couple of points:</p><p>Yes, the "Age of Discovery" title really is just pointing to the new things coming in the expansion - our world is still in the Age of Destiny.</p><p>Secondly, the first beastlord lore event is coming out with 61, and should be on test here really soon.  There's a good and evil quest line, each telling a piece of the story from their point of view - these two quests are the start of the overall lore.  There will be additional content released for beastlords as well, including class quests and such that I have planned upon the expansion release, so there should be a solid base of supporting lore for the class once it goes live.</p><p>As I said at the lore panel, I did some researching into beastlord lore from EQ1, and actually found some surprising little tidbits about them that I don't believe were ever revealed to players, so I'm hoping to tie all that lore together in EQ2.  Hopefully you guys like where the story with them goes in our game.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Did Vhelen leave you his cliff's notes?</p>

[Vinyard]

<p>Cronyn, I think it's time for another epic MS paint drawing</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>I bet some of those tidbits will be how they bond with thier warders...more information about how they commune with spirits and such since they are more akin to totemic relation rather then an ancestral one like shamans....not to mention how they are going to be rebirthed.</p><p>I want to see at least ONE actual Vah Shir in EQ2 darn it. the last Beastlord to train a new generation. and then if you make him right, and not one of those kerran things.....offer it as a race. I'd buy it in a heartbeat it it looked like the Vah Shir from EQ1 with EQ2 graphics.</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I bet some of those tidbits will be how they bond with thier warders...more information about how they commune with spirits and such since they are more akin to totemic relation rather then an ancestral one like shamans....not to mention how they are going to be rebirthed.</p><p>I want to see at least ONE actual Vah Shir in EQ2 darn it. the last Beastlord to train a new generation. and then if you make him right, and not one of those kerran things.....offer it as a race. I'd buy it in a heartbeat it it looked like the Vah Shir from EQ1 with EQ2 graphics.</p></blockquote><p>Vah Shir are not comming back as part of this update, that is certain, not even a single Vah Shir "master". Until Retcon'd all the Vah Shir are dead and are not comming back.</p><p>The Devs didn't say never ofcourse... pointing to Beastlords as a reason why they won't do that again...but as it stands right now they a) can't see a way to bring them back baised on existing lore, and b) don't really have time right now to find a way to "adjust" the lore to bring them back.</p>

[Hilt]

<p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, no - there won't be racial quests for betrayers, as far as we're planning.  Each of the starting races in the cities are woven into the overall story of that city, where betrayers are a story unto themselves (as it should be).  However, as there is a quest for every race that begins in a given city, some races will be able to do their quests in the cities (human for example, since they start in both).  We're aware of that.</p><p>We're putting a ton of effort into these revamps, and there's a lot to consider, so we felt this was the best decision given the resources.  We hope you enjoy what we are giving you, though!</p></blockquote><p>So...my Froglok Inquisitor will have to sneak back into Qeynos to get the quest?</p><p>I have long since followed the banner of Freeport and find this odd...Not to mention shortsighted.</p><p>I consider his "story" where his family was tied more with Seafury Buccaneers than the forests of Greater Feydark or the Kingdom of Qeynos.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, no - there won't be racial quests for betrayers, as far as we're planning.  Each of the starting races in the cities are woven into the overall story of that city, where betrayers are a story unto themselves (as it should be).  However, as there is a quest for every race that begins in a given city, some races will be able to do their quests in the cities (human for example, since they start in both).  We're aware of that.</p><p>We're putting a ton of effort into these revamps, and there's a lot to consider, so we felt this was the best decision given the resources.  We hope you enjoy what we are giving you, though!</p></blockquote><p>So...my Froglok Inquisitor will have to sneak back into Qeynos to get the quest?</p><p>I have long since followed the banner of Freeport and find this odd...Not to mention shortsighted.</p><p>I consider his "story" where his family was tied more with Seafury Buccaneers than the forests of Greater Feydark or the Kingdom of Qeynos.</p></blockquote><p>Just because your family is tied to the Seafury Buccaneers doesn't mean your race is. You have to go back to Qeynos and find out why you're proud to be a froglok.</p>

[Hilt]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, no - there won't be racial quests for betrayers, as far as we're planning.  Each of the starting races in the cities are woven into the overall story of that city, where betrayers are a story unto themselves (as it should be).  However, as there is a quest for every race that begins in a given city, some races will be able to do their quests in the cities (human for example, since they start in both).  We're aware of that.</p><p>We're putting a ton of effort into these revamps, and there's a lot to consider, so we felt this was the best decision given the resources.  We hope you enjoy what we are giving you, though!</p></blockquote><p>So...my Froglok Inquisitor will have to sneak back into Qeynos to get the quest?</p><p>I have long since followed the banner of Freeport and find this odd...Not to mention shortsighted.</p><p>I consider his "story" where his family was tied more with Seafury Buccaneers than the forests of Greater Feydark or the Kingdom of Qeynos.</p></blockquote><p>Just because your family is tied to the Seafury Buccaneers doesn't mean your race is. You have to go back to Qeynos and find out why you're proud to be a froglok.</p></blockquote><p>Screw Qeynos. LOVE LIVE FREEPORT!</p><p>...</p><p>Ribbit.</p><p>PS: My frog has nothing to do with Qeynos. There are plenty of frogloks NOT in Qeynos. And I find it, dare I say heretical, that Qeynos is supposedly TIED to Frogloks. Frogloks didn't START there...they sure as heck aren't going to FINISH there...</p>

[Cusashorn]

Then you're just gonna go without completing your racial heritage quest then.

[Hilt]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Then you're just gonna go without completing your racial heritage quest then.</blockquote><p>or I will have to credit it to Qeynos OPPRESSION of the races and sneak in like everyone else...</p><p>DOWN WITH BAYLE!!!!</p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Then you're just gonna go without completing your racial heritage quest then.</blockquote><p>or I will have to credit it to Qeynos OPPRESSION of the races and sneak in like everyone else...</p><p>DOWN WITH BAYLE!!!!</p></blockquote><p>Well consitering your the one that Betraied your Race, Creator, and City...I wouldn't blame other True Froglocks from wanting to make sure your really worthy of getting the information.</p>

[Hilt]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>TRUE Frogloks don't come from Qeynos...but 5 bucks says I'll be heading to Castleview Hamlet...</p>

[Boli32]

<p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now why would you make outlandish statements about our lore process??</p><p>First of all, it's not a d20, it's 3d6 (2nd Edition >>>> 3rd Edition or anything later).  And it isn't a dartboard, it is a "Leap to Loreclusions" mat that we jump on backwards (thus, no blindfold needed).  And it happens three times a year.  So there.  The programmers/graphics thing is pretty close, though.</p><p>Also, all references to Mayong going forward will end with, "And then players stab him in the FACE."  Probably.  We're hashing that one out still, and there hasn't been a Loreclusions leap since Fan Faire.  I'll let you know.</p></blockquote><p>AD&D FTW!</p><p>if you can't understand it you shouldn't play <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[ke'la]

<p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>TRUE Frogloks don't come from Qeynos...but 5 bucks says I'll be heading to Castleview Hamlet...</p></blockquote><p>You do know the story of how the Froglocks came to be in Qeynos right? So by being from Freeport you are betraying your Race.</p><p>Since it was the people of Qeynos that resqued your people in the first place, your betraing the city that saved you.</p><p>and lastly since Worshipers of your Creator where all betrayed and killed by your cities leader, and all those found worshiping your creator are killed, you betrayied your god too.</p><p>So yes it makes sences that those that where saved by Qeynos would shelter themselfs in Castleview from traitors like you.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I've always though that while they have given up their old racial backgrounds that those that betray would group together and make new racial traditions in their new home.</span></p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Eileah wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cronyn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Actually, no - there won't be racial quests for betrayers, as far as we're planning.  Each of the starting races in the cities are woven into the overall story of that city, where betrayers are a story unto themselves (as it should be).  However, as there is a quest for every race that begins in a given city, some races will be able to do their quests in the cities (human for example, since they start in both).  We're aware of that.</p><p>We're putting a ton of effort into these revamps, and there's a lot to consider, so we felt this was the best decision given the resources.  We hope you enjoy what we are giving you, though!</p></blockquote><p>Since you are revamping the racial quests I wold love to see better rewards for them, something that isn't outgrown. I really don't want another piece of gear that I outgrow eventually, house items have by far been the best rewards, hence the many alts rolled and deleted just for the HIE flowers.</p><p>Personally I'd love a reward of the town centerpieces, the fountains, gardens etc that are in the center of all the burbs (the disco area). Recreating those as house item rewards for racial quests would be awesome and it would retain a small piece of the history from the original burbs after the revamp.</p></blockquote><p>Yes please. i'd very much love to get something more than a level 1 CUP OF TEA that lasts 10 minutes for a racial heritage reward.</p></blockquote><p>I'm going to be nit picky here. What does the reward of a quest have to do with Lore? Especially with quests that are oriented towards people intersted in Lore, especially racial lore? The reward is the Lore. If your going to ask for something furniture wise, then how about a nice book that recaps what you learned?</p>

[Cusashorn]

^ Exactly. Most of the racial quests did nothing to really tell much about our race. The Human racial quest just resulted in a 6 slot backpack and a cup of tea just for being a race who adapts the best to changing situations.

[Hilt]

<p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>Not ALL Frogloks are IN Qeynos so not ALL are tied to Qeynos; hence the Frogloks in Tenebrous...And Moors</p><p>And for the record "Marr" was never MY god. So he was never mine to betray...</p>

[Hilt]

<p>"<span style="color: #00cc00;">I've always though that while they have given up their old racial backgrounds that those that betray would group together and make new racial traditions in their new home."</span></p><p>My thoughts EXACTLY...</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>"<span style="color: #00cc00;">I've always though that while they have given up their old racial backgrounds that those that betray would group together and make new racial traditions in their new home."</span></p><p>My thoughts EXACTLY...</p></blockquote><p>But those few individuals don't speak for the entire race, now do they?</p><p>You're either part of your race, or you aren't. There is no inbetween.</p>

[Hilt]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>"<span style="color: #00cc00;">I've always though that while they have given up their old racial backgrounds that those that betray would group together and make new racial traditions in their new home."</span></p><p>My thoughts EXACTLY...</p></blockquote><p>But those few individuals don't speak for the entire race, now do they?</p><p>You're either part of your race, or you aren't. There is no inbetween.</p></blockquote><p>Never said I was apart from my race. Just that Marr is NOT my God and Qeynos is NOT my origin. Read between THOSE lines...</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Nothing exists between those lines. As I said, you're either part of your race (and god and city designated by the developers) or you aren't.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>"<span style="color: #00cc00;">I've always though that while they have given up their old racial backgrounds that those that betray would group together and make new racial traditions in their new home."</span></p><p>My thoughts EXACTLY...</p></blockquote><p>But those few individuals don't speak for the entire race, now do they?</p><p>You're either part of your race, or you aren't. There is no inbetween.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">They don't need to, they can speak for their faction(Good Trolls/Evil Elves) and views.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Perhaps the Iksar that Betrayed before the the Monk became Neutral decided to merge the Swifttails with the Silent Fist or they worship the Good Thule. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Frogloks raised in the Jungle might FOLLOW Cazzy having never know their Progenitor.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Teir'Dal of Keynos/Halas could be a faction was horrible with backstabing so moved somewhere that they only have to worry about wannabes. Or maybe they are Zen Crafters and don't want to worry about Politics possibly a group of Thexians who are on the run. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I do agree with one thing Perhaps the revised reward might even be a New <strong>Expanded/Revised </strong>History of ... (that is in actual book format)</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">The rest you can buy off the sagfe <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p>

[Hilt]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Nothing exists between those lines. As I said, you're either part of your race (and god and city designated by the developers) or you aren't.</p></blockquote><p>While I appreciate the lore that exists ingame, it is the players choice which God belong with each toon. Yes my toon is a part of the Froglok race but not the god and city.</p>

[Cusashorn]

But what does that say for your character if the Froglok racial lore dictates that you follow Mithanial Marr because you know he created you?

[kelvmor]

<p>Basically, what Cusa is trying to get accross is that your average [insert race here] is a follower of their creator god, [insert creator god here], and they adhere to [insert culture here]. </p><p>Any other [insert race here] that's a follower of any other god and/or adheres/abhorrs [insert race's culture here] is thusly not a member of the [insert race here], and thusly an outcast.</p><p>Take, for example, an Iksar. The average Iksar is a devout follower of Cazic-Thule, and adheres to a lawful-evil style of semi-military culture with an empirical government. Any Iksar that, say, seeks Mithaniel Marr or abhorrs Iksar culture is referred to as a softscale, and is a hated outcast among the vast majority of his or her people.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically, what Cusa is trying to get accross is that your average [insert race here] is a follower of their creator god, [insert creator god here], and they adhere to [insert culture here]. </p><p>Any other [insert race here] that's a follower of any other god and/or adheres/abhorrs [insert race's culture here] is thusly not a member of the [insert race here], and thusly an outcast.</p><p>Take, for example, an Iksar. The average Iksar is a devout follower of Cazic-Thule, and adheres to a lawful-evil style of semi-military culture with an empirical government. Any Iksar that, say, seeks Mithaniel Marr or abhorrs Iksar culture is referred to as a softscale, and is a hated outcast among the vast majority of his or her people.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Actually, most  Iksar are into Ancestor Worship now-a-days with Venni being the central entity in this.  Freeport, Neriak and Gorowyn Iksar are mostly Cazzy but with many worshiping others.</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Just like Most Neriak Teir'Dal Give Lip-service to Christanos's "Divinity" although they continue to rever Inny (or Ro or who-ever floats their boat)</span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">What I am saying is if you get enough together with the same or similar views you can have a divergent culture forming, and say a bunch of Teir'Dal living in Qeynos, Halas or Kelethin are likely to gather together decide to make a new Culture for their children to live in as opposed to the one they left.</span></p>

[Hilt]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>But what does that say for your character if the Froglok racial lore dictates that you follow Mithanial Marr because you know he created you?</blockquote><p>And there in lies the problem...I chose Tribunal as I believe THEY are the ones that created me.</p><p>And frankly Mithaniel Marr needs to seriously grow a pair before ANY of my toons follow him.</p><p>Anybody who listens to his whining at the end of Shard of Love would agree. He is one whiny dude...</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>But what does that say for your character if the Froglok racial lore dictates that you follow Mithanial Marr because you know he created you?</blockquote><p>And there in lies the problem...I chose Tribunal as I believe THEY are the ones that created me.</p><p>And frankly Mithaniel Marr needs to seriously grow a pair before ANY of my toons follow him.</p><p>Anybody who listens to his whining at the end of Shard of Love would agree. He is one whiny dude...</p></blockquote><p>It's not just Marr. A good portion of these so called gods come off as whiny, abusive, egotistical children who demand we all kneel before them as simpering sycophants.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p>Well, that's the Sathirians. And the Sathirians are heretics that almost brought about the destruction of the Iksar race thanks to that heresy.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, that's the Sathirians. And the Sathirians are heretics that almost brought about the destruction of the Iksar race thanks to that heresy.</p></blockquote><p>There is evidence that the Iksar outside of Sebilis give lip service to Veniril but a good deal of them still worship Cazic. A lot of Rille's followers are Cazic worshipers looking to dethrone Veniril in Cazic's name.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>Not ALL Frogloks are IN Qeynos so not ALL are tied to Qeynos; hence the Frogloks in Tenebrous...And Moors</p><p>And for the record "Marr" was never MY god. So he was never mine to betray...</p></blockquote><p>Funny thing. The frogloks in Tenebrous and Tupita are the same Marr-blessed frogloks that are found in Qeynos. In a very similar fashion, they worship Mithanial Marr as their creator. While you'll find individual frogloks that worship other dieties, when your talking about the race your talking about the vast majority not the individual exceptions except for figures of great historical significance.</p><p>Historically and racially, we players are not significant. Even though we're the great heroes of this age that get everything done we're not going to hear great stories of the first raid to bring down Trakanon on our server. Seriously, get over it. Your free to RP anything you like, but the Lore of the game doesn't have anything to do with us.</p><p>The Frogloks in Kunark seem to be split between Mithanial Marr and Cazic Thule. Cazic was the diety most frogloks worshiped at the beginning of EQ1. In the moors the frogloks were grateful to Cazic for smitting the Trolls and inadvertadly freeing them. In Kunark the froglok slaves worshiped the same god as their masters, Cazic. Note that the frogloks that still worship Cazic are all the origional, not blessed frogloks. (aka the ones that look a bit like Kermit the Frog.)</p><p>The same can be said of all betrayers. You could get a series of personal anticdotes but asking for racial lore to be created for the exceptions...it wouldn't be racial lore. It would be a collection of stories, without any common thread connecting them all. Racial traditions have a commonly shared theme. Betrayers usually have a variety of reasons for betraying that are personal. If it was a racial trait, then the race would be neutral!</p>

[Hilt]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>Not ALL Frogloks are IN Qeynos so not ALL are tied to Qeynos; hence the Frogloks in Tenebrous...And Moors</p><p>And for the record "Marr" was never MY god. So he was never mine to betray...</p></blockquote><p>Funny thing. The frogloks in Tenebrous and Tupita are the same Marr-blessed frogloks that are found in Qeynos. In a very similar fashion, they worship Mithanial Marr as their creator. While you'll find individual frogloks that worship other dieties, when your talking about the race your talking about the vast majority not the individual exceptions except for figures of great historical significance.</p><p>Historically and racially, we players are not significant. Even though we're the great heroes of this age that get everything done we're not going to hear great stories of the first raid to bring down Trakanon on our server. Seriously, get over it. Your free to RP anything you like, but the Lore of the game doesn't have anything to do with us.</p><p>The Frogloks in Kunark seem to be split between Mithanial Marr and Cazic Thule. Cazic was the diety most frogloks worshiped at the beginning of EQ1. In the moors the frogloks were grateful to Cazic for smitting the Trolls and inadvertadly freeing them. In Kunark the froglok slaves worshiped the same god as their masters, Cazic. Note that the frogloks that still worship Cazic are all the origional, not blessed frogloks. (aka the ones that look a bit like Kermit the Frog.)</p><p>The same can be said of all betrayers. You could get a series of personal anticdotes but asking for racial lore to be created for the exceptions...it wouldn't be racial lore. It would be a collection of stories, without any common thread connecting them all. Racial traditions have a commonly shared theme. Betrayers usually have a variety of reasons for betraying that are personal. If it was a racial trait, then the race would be neutral!</p></blockquote><p>ALL races should be neutral. ALL races have the choice to worship who they see fit.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>That depends on your social structure and racial traditions. like, wether we players like it or not, all Teir'dal are ingrained from birth according to the lore to worship Innorruuk. same thing for Koada'dal and Feir'dal and Tunare, same thing for Frogloks and Mith Marr, Iksar and Cazic (with the exception of course of Venril's empire), Ogres and Rallos, ect.</p><p>like it or not, the only, lorewise, 'neutral' races as far as religious indoctrination are the 3 types of humans, the half elves, the kerran, trolls and MAYBE the ratonga (though it seems ratonga have a strong affinity toward Brell)</p><p>A froglock that isn't a Marr worshipper is like going to Iran and finding a Buddist. it's a rare exception, not the norm.</p><p>and unlike us, the norrathian gods are VERY much real and involved to the point you know for a Fact they exist and what they did, or did not, do. there is no debate among the frogloks or anyone else that Mith Marr created them. Thus, 99.9% of the froglocks are loyal followers. it's practially ingrained into thier society/cultural fabric.</p><p>a froglok that abandoned Qeynos for Freeport, and doesn't worship Mithaniel is a rare except, and like it or not, historically, that's where the frogloks hail from. in fact, even as far back as EQ1, a Guktan froglok I believe had to worship mithaniel, and wouldn't have been welcome in Freeport save Nfp becuase the Order of Marr still controled that and the Milita and the Order were at odds. So Naturally, the Frogoks moved after the rending and shattering to Qeynos. a safe place to live where they coudl worship thier creator without fear of persocution.</p><p>ad if I remember right, the frogloks in TT were brought there by Venekor as slave. the hidden refuge are the ones that escaped and are looking to free thier fellows. not indigenous to teh area.</p><p>you could argue at best that they orginally hail from Tupta, but even then they are strictly marr worshippers. and they are unwelcome in Freeport, so natuarally they would all move to Qeynos.</p>

[KniteShayd]

<p>I think it would be cool to do Racial AQ's since the race quests are getting revamped. Or Racial Weapon quests to compliment the racial armors on the Market...</p><p>Just my 2 cp...</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>Not ALL Frogloks are IN Qeynos so not ALL are tied to Qeynos; hence the Frogloks in Tenebrous...And Moors</p><p>And for the record "Marr" was never MY god. So he was never mine to betray...</p></blockquote><p>Funny thing. The frogloks in Tenebrous and Tupita are the same Marr-blessed frogloks that are found in Qeynos. In a very similar fashion, they worship Mithanial Marr as their creator. While you'll find individual frogloks that worship other dieties, when your talking about the race your talking about the vast majority not the individual exceptions except for figures of great historical significance.</p><p>Historically and racially, we players are not significant. Even though we're the great heroes of this age that get everything done we're not going to hear great stories of the first raid to bring down Trakanon on our server. Seriously, get over it. Your free to RP anything you like, but the Lore of the game doesn't have anything to do with us.</p><p>The Frogloks in Kunark seem to be split between Mithanial Marr and Cazic Thule. Cazic was the diety most frogloks worshiped at the beginning of EQ1. In the moors the frogloks were grateful to Cazic for smitting the Trolls and inadvertadly freeing them. In Kunark the froglok slaves worshiped the same god as their masters, Cazic. Note that the frogloks that still worship Cazic are all the origional, not blessed frogloks. (aka the ones that look a bit like Kermit the Frog.)</p><p>The same can be said of all betrayers. You could get a series of personal anticdotes but asking for racial lore to be created for the exceptions...it wouldn't be racial lore. It would be a collection of stories, without any common thread connecting them all. Racial traditions have a commonly shared theme. Betrayers usually have a variety of reasons for betraying that are personal. If it was a racial trait, then the race would be neutral!</p></blockquote><p>ALL races should be neutral. ALL races have the choice to worship who they see fit.</p></blockquote><p>Your doing it backwards. Racial tendencies are an accumilation of the races individual stories and then taking what the vast majority of them do and believe in and documenting that. Yes, every member of every race can make individual choices. However, when you look at what choices the race does make and 90% of the individual members all choose the same diety, then you say as a race they worship that diety.</p><p>That is if we were talking about real people. Honestly we're talking about NPCs who are just there to support the story of EQ2. Teir'dal are the perfect example. By Lore we're talking about an entire race that worships Innoruuk. Those individuals that choose to openly worship another diety should expect to be sacrificed as a heratic during the next festival held in Innoruuk's name (we know about the holiday, but not when its held or what it is called). By Lore they are all haughty and hold themselves as superior to other races. By Lore they were scattered and now have split loyalties. Some are loyal to Innoruuk and look to dethrone Cristanos for her claim to be a false god and demand the worship of the citizens of Nerriak. Others are loyal to Cristanos and seek to protect her from the 'traitors'. Others were born outside of Nerriak and are divided between those that seek to return to Nerriak and those who wish to seek their own fortunes outside of Nerriak. Many are invovled in the highest levels of politics in Freeport, their adopted home. Many are amongst the followers of D'Vinn in Crushbome. A few (live) Teir'dal serve Mayong as agents. Fewer still live in other cities.</p><p>Why is all of that true? Because it makes the basis of an intersting story.</p><p> Now how about player Teir'dal? Sorry, but very few players fit anywhere even near what we expect from the NPCs. The vast majority of player Teir'dal don't have a racist attitude towards other players, could be refered to as trustworthy, and arn't actively shunning non-Innoruuk worshipers. Please don't confuse your story with Lore. Lore refers to what the NPCs are doing.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>Not ALL Frogloks are IN Qeynos so not ALL are tied to Qeynos; hence the Frogloks in Tenebrous...And Moors</p><p>And for the record "Marr" was never MY god. So he was never mine to betray...</p></blockquote><p>Funny thing. The frogloks in Tenebrous and Tupita are the same Marr-blessed frogloks that are found in Qeynos. In a very similar fashion, they worship Mithanial Marr as their creator. While you'll find individual frogloks that worship other dieties, when your talking about the race your talking about the vast majority not the individual exceptions except for figures of great historical significance.</p><p>Historically and racially, we players are not significant. Even though we're the great heroes of this age that get everything done we're not going to hear great stories of the first raid to bring down Trakanon on our server. Seriously, get over it. Your free to RP anything you like, but the Lore of the game doesn't have anything to do with us.</p><p>The Frogloks in Kunark seem to be split between Mithanial Marr and Cazic Thule. Cazic was the diety most frogloks worshiped at the beginning of EQ1. In the moors the frogloks were grateful to Cazic for smitting the Trolls and inadvertadly freeing them. In Kunark the froglok slaves worshiped the same god as their masters, Cazic. Note that the frogloks that still worship Cazic are all the origional, not blessed frogloks. (aka the ones that look a bit like Kermit the Frog.)</p><p>The same can be said of all betrayers. You could get a series of personal anticdotes but asking for racial lore to be created for the exceptions...it wouldn't be racial lore. It would be a collection of stories, without any common thread connecting them all. Racial traditions have a commonly shared theme. Betrayers usually have a variety of reasons for betraying that are personal. If it was a racial trait, then the race would be neutral!</p></blockquote><p>ALL races should be neutral. ALL races have the choice to worship who they see fit.</p></blockquote><p>No. I will not see this game turn into some shades of gray crap. More than it already is.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>Not ALL Frogloks are IN Qeynos so not ALL are tied to Qeynos; hence the Frogloks in Tenebrous...And Moors</p><p>And for the record "Marr" was never MY god. So he was never mine to betray...</p></blockquote><p>Funny thing. The frogloks in Tenebrous and Tupita are the same Marr-blessed frogloks that are found in Qeynos. In a very similar fashion, they worship Mithanial Marr as their creator. While you'll find individual frogloks that worship other dieties, when your talking about the race your talking about the vast majority not the individual exceptions except for figures of great historical significance.</p><p>Historically and racially, we players are not significant. Even though we're the great heroes of this age that get everything done we're not going to hear great stories of the first raid to bring down Trakanon on our server. Seriously, get over it. Your free to RP anything you like, but the Lore of the game doesn't have anything to do with us.</p><p>The Frogloks in Kunark seem to be split between Mithanial Marr and Cazic Thule. Cazic was the diety most frogloks worshiped at the beginning of EQ1. In the moors the frogloks were grateful to Cazic for smitting the Trolls and inadvertadly freeing them. In Kunark the froglok slaves worshiped the same god as their masters, Cazic. Note that the frogloks that still worship Cazic are all the origional, not blessed frogloks. (aka the ones that look a bit like Kermit the Frog.)</p><p>The same can be said of all betrayers. You could get a series of personal anticdotes but asking for racial lore to be created for the exceptions...it wouldn't be racial lore. It would be a collection of stories, without any common thread connecting them all. Racial traditions have a commonly shared theme. Betrayers usually have a variety of reasons for betraying that are personal. If it was a racial trait, then the race would be neutral!</p></blockquote><p>ALL races should be neutral. ALL races have the choice to worship who they see fit.</p></blockquote><p>No. I will not see this game turn into some shades of gray crap. More than it already is.</p></blockquote><p>Because black and white is so much more compelling right? No matter what it is, it'll be bad if its spawned from terrible writing.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Hilt wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>kela wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>{0}</blockquote><p>Not ALL Frogloks are IN Qeynos so not ALL are tied to Qeynos; hence the Frogloks in Tenebrous...And Moors</p><p>And for the record "Marr" was never MY god. So he was never mine to betray...</p></blockquote><p>Funny thing. The frogloks in Tenebrous and Tupita are the same Marr-blessed frogloks that are found in Qeynos. In a very similar fashion, they worship Mithanial Marr as their creator. While you'll find individual frogloks that worship other dieties, when your talking about the race your talking about the vast majority not the individual exceptions except for figures of great historical significance.</p><p>Historically and racially, we players are not significant. Even though we're the great heroes of this age that get everything done we're not going to hear great stories of the first raid to bring down Trakanon on our server. Seriously, get over it. Your free to RP anything you like, but the Lore of the game doesn't have anything to do with us.</p><p>The Frogloks in Kunark seem to be split between Mithanial Marr and Cazic Thule. Cazic was the diety most frogloks worshiped at the beginning of EQ1. In the moors the frogloks were grateful to Cazic for smitting the Trolls and inadvertadly freeing them. In Kunark the froglok slaves worshiped the same god as their masters, Cazic. Note that the frogloks that still worship Cazic are all the origional, not blessed frogloks. (aka the ones that look a bit like Kermit the Frog.)</p><p>The same can be said of all betrayers. You could get a series of personal anticdotes but asking for racial lore to be created for the exceptions...it wouldn't be racial lore. It would be a collection of stories, without any common thread connecting them all. Racial traditions have a commonly shared theme. Betrayers usually have a variety of reasons for betraying that are personal. If it was a racial trait, then the race would be neutral!</p></blockquote><p>ALL races should be neutral. ALL races have the choice to worship who they see fit.</p></blockquote><p>No. I will not see this game turn into some shades of gray crap. More than it already is.</p></blockquote><p>Because black and white is so much more compelling right? No matter what it is, it'll be bad if its spawned from terrible writing.</p></blockquote><p>There are already so many shades of gray games. >_></p><p>True that, though.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Yeah but those games are DESIGNED to be Gray and Gray by design. This game turned Black and White into Gray, Blue, Orange, and Plaid...</p>

[firestorck]

<p>they haven't done any of the zones and stuff from the Luclin moon from EQ1.</p><p>and considering it was demolished in 2 here. it would be a lil hard to do that one. unless somehow they set up another moon. or at least move the big lizards and other ones from the luclin set of zones to some undiscovered set of lands on the other side of Norrath. or a different moon.</p>

[firestorck]

<p>is there any plans to up the levels for experience be it adventuring, tradeskilling, etc.....? and if done. what will be the new levels planned to be?</p>

[Anestacia]

<p><cite>Elialia@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>is there any plans to up the levels for experience be it adventuring, tradeskilling, etc.....? and if done. what will be the new levels planned to be?</p></blockquote><p>No new levels this time.  Also, it was stated somewhere that we will be stuck at Level 90 for the unforseeable future.  Something about level 100 adding technical difficulties.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Elialia@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>is there any plans to up the levels for experience be it adventuring, tradeskilling, etc.....? and if done. what will be the new levels planned to be?</p></blockquote><p>No new levels this time.  Also, it was stated somewhere that we will be stuck at Level 90 for the unforseeable future.  Something about level 100 adding technical difficulties.</p></blockquote><p>I think it was more specifically that adding levels made the data needed to store the character increase at too fast of a rate, so they are slowing down on level increases. Get use to being 90 for a while, because until the devs feel they need us to increase in level because they have nothing new to offer otherwise we'll be 90. Considering current itemization, there is a lot of room gear and spell wise for increase.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Elialia@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>they haven't done any of the zones and stuff from the Luclin moon from EQ1.</p><p>and considering it was demolished in 2 here. it would be a lil hard to do that one. unless somehow they set up another moon. or at least move the big lizards and other ones from the luclin set of zones to some undiscovered set of lands on the other side of Norrath. or a different moon.</p></blockquote><p>Did you know that the Plane of Sky has apparently ceased to exist? Somehow fragments of the plane have appeared here on Norrath. The dragons of the Awakened cult found the islands, as well as the Avika. Both races move to the fragmented sky islands and that is how we got the entire Kingdom of Sky expansion. It is inspired by things changing from EQ1 to EQ2.</p><p>It is possible to do a Luclin-based expansion. Don't expect it to be like Velious which is only 30-40% different from EQ1. I would expect the differences to be a lot more extreme. You would have a collection of floating chunks of rock that you'd adventure on while being able to look straight up and seeing other chunks of rock spinning around. If your fortunate, you also see Norrath beyond the rocks. If you are unfortunate you get a really nice view of that burning core we see when we look up at Luclin's shattered remains.</p><p>Story wise it would be possible to explain that some of the more powerful factions on Luclin managed to survive in pockets of the moon. Using existing technology they manage to teleport from their main base to other sections to gather materials. No one faction has access to all of the sections, but as a player it is possible to gain access to the entire remains of the moon.</p><p>The Katta Loyalists would be more likely to retain enough information on teleportation to create a network than the Seru Loyalists but there is no reason to exclude either faction. Considering everything, a likely senerio would be that refugees of Marus Seru suddenly start appearing at the various Combine Spires. Currious adventurers investigate and find that the people of Sanctus Seru have recently finished a massive effort to complete Greig's teleportation device in what was once called Mons Letalis. Now the civilian population have appeared on Norrath seeking refuge from the horrid conditions on Luclin.</p><p>After the Shattering the once pleasent weather on Luclin disappeared. Not only did you have to worry about the spinning fragments of rock colliding with your own, but plants wouldn't grow except in areas protected by strong magics. Worse, anything exposed to the core side was baked at several hundred degrees and quickly perished.</p><p>The major factions figured out the explosion was going to happen before it actually did. That explains how their sections of the moon didn't end up in chaos. None of them truely imagined it would be as bad as it was, but the survivors planned well enough for it to happen.</p><p>Adventurers that wander through the portal are greeted cooly by the guards trying to manage the evacuation. In Marus Seru itself they find a nearly deserted city that looks like it has been mostly abandoned and looted. A few merchants and officials remain as well as a few lunatics. Those that remain behind have reasons. Unfinished business if you will.</p><p>Traveling through the teleporters controlled by Seru brings you into contact with Katta Castillium, the Vah Shir and survivors from Shadow Haven. The survivors tell you about the forces loyal to Zek and Ro that now control the city. While the forces of Katta are hostile to Seru they arn't hostile to adventurers. After some faction building you find out that the people of Katta are trying to build another teleportation device to get to Norrath as well, but didn't have Greig's machine to work with. They need inforation from Greig's workshop to advance their project. Greig's End still exists, but on a section that faces the core. Adventurers will need to aquire equipment that will allow them to survive the extreme enviroment on that side. Equipment that the residents of Katta and Seru do not have.</p><p>Through the Vah Shir you come into contact with the remains of Ssraeshza Temple which remains remarkably intact. The Shissar were very well prepared and have advanced teleporation magics. They are freely raiding many areas of Luclin for slaves and material to expand their complex. From here adventurers can gain equipment to start exploring the core side.</p><p>On the core side adventurers find that Greig has continued in madness amongst his flaming realm. Deep in his labrynth can be found what the people of Katta desire. Also exposed to the core are the remains of the Akeva. Blessed with 'immortality' the shades of the Akeva lash out at any adventurers that dare to disturbe their ancient city/tomb. Also surviving remarkably intact is Vex Thal, which can be accessed once the keys are recovered.</p><p>Clinging to the edges of some of the less inhabital rocks are behemoths that escaped The Deep. These ancient horrors have managed to exist on the edges since the shattering. Now they wander raiding from unexpected directions. Well prepared adventurers are advised to bring a small army when dealing with this horrible threat. It is said that some of the horrors can be lured by providing a tempting target... </p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Luclin is destroyed and everything on it's surface was turned to ashes beyond ashes. Nobody knew it was going to happen, so nobody could have prevented against it up there. They're all dead, including the undead.</p>

[Maergoth]

<p>The Shissar knew. Off-topic a bit, but I really want to know more about Luclin's last couple years. Shissar, Rallosian Armies, Combine Empire, Vah`Shir.. so much conflict and a big finale no one knows near anything about.</p><p>I'd like that more than tying up the mayong story and the Kerafyrm stuff combined.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>The Shissar who created the calendar knew, but those particular individuals have been dead for ages now.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p>Admittedly, though, I wouldn't mind seeing the Shissar again in eq2's graphics.</p>

[Cusashorn]

Truedat. I wouldn't mind seeing them in EQ2 graphics, but I don't want them back.

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>The Shissar were a plane-hopping super-race who slew gods and built artifacts of power the likes of which have never been reproduced even to this day. I would be very surprised if we never heard from them again. However, I do not expect them to come from the shattered, uninhabitable remains of Luclin.</p>

[Cusashorn]

But there's nowhere else on Norrath where they could exist. They don't live underwater in an old Combine city because that expansion in EQlive never happened here.

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Luclin is destroyed and everything on it's surface was turned to ashes beyond ashes. Nobody knew it was going to happen, so nobody could have prevented against it up there. They're all dead, including the undead.</p></blockquote><p>Source? Unless you can quote a credible in-game source, it isn't lore.</p><p> Even then, if the producers of EQ2 wanted a Luclin expansion (dunno why they would) it would happen. Any source of lore we have in game about the surface of Luclin could easily be explained away by the interference of Luclin the goddess, or a relic left behind by her, or by Rallos and Solusek's combined efforts.</p><p> Or the entire thing could of been done by Thought Horrors that have blocked all access to the Nexus, created giantic mountain throwers and a mental illusion that the shattering happened. They have spent the last 50 years working on their ultimate plan. At last The Vision has been completed, the protective illusion has been dispelled, the Nexus has been re-opened, and bold adventurers can dare to enter...Disney: Luclin. Enter the magic kingdom if you dare!</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The Shissar who created the calendar knew, but those particular individuals have been dead for ages now.</p></blockquote><p>The entire ruling body of the Shissar were liches. Are you saying that those liches wern't the Shissar that teleported their entire pyramid to the surface of Luclin and created the Grey to protect themselves from the Greenmist? Or are you saying that the would of fogotten that something comes after that in their predictions?</p><p>As far as we know, the pyramid could of teleported again. Without Luclin herself to prevent it, the magics the Shissar used the first time should be adequate to return to Norrath. It is also possible that the Shissar might of tried to travel to another plane to escape the rain of meteors heading to Norrath after the Shattering. With the various realms of the gods fragmenting there should of been plenty of choices of where to go.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>I'm saying that 99% of the entire race was killed off in the Greenmist, and they resorted to using necromancy like that only to help what was left of their race survive for as long as possible. It's very possible that the few individuals who created the calender didn't survive to see their race flee from Norrath to save their own scaly hides, or that they even shared the knowledge of the calender with the rest of the race so they knew what it ment.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm saying that 99% of the entire race was killed off in the Greenmist, and they resorted to using necromancy like that only to help what was left of their race survive for as long as possible. It's very possible that the few individuals who created the calender didn't survive to see their race flee from Norrath to save their own scaly hides, or that they even shared the knowledge of the calender with the rest of the race so they knew what it ment.</p></blockquote><p>So, are you saying that the undead lich emperor in Ssraeshza Temple and his cohort of undead attendents went through the trouble of teleporting the temple and setting up and entirely airless area in the grey to avoid the Greenmist but they don't understand the calender?</p><p>They figured out the part of the prophacy that related to the extinction of their own race. The Shissar in the temple managed to avoid it. Odds are that they figured out the part where the giant rock they are sitting on is going to blow up too. Maybe not, its hard to say. </p>

[troodon311]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They figured out the part of the prophacy that related to the extinction of their own race. The Shissar in the temple managed to avoid it. Odds are that they figured out the part where the giant rock they are sitting on is going to blow up too. Maybe not, its hard to say. </p></blockquote><p>I do like this idea, the question is where they would have gone?  Taelosia?  The unnamed continent on the other side of Norrath?</p>

[kelvmor]

<p>I wouldn't even mind it if they came up with a reason to bring them back.</p><p>If I could only get an illusion. <3</p>

[Aneova]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm saying that 99% of the entire race was killed off in the Greenmist, and they resorted to using necromancy like that only to help what was left of their race survive for as long as possible. It's very possible that the few individuals who created the calender didn't survive to see their race flee from Norrath to save their own scaly hides, or that they even shared the knowledge of the calender with the rest of the race so they knew what it ment.</p></blockquote><p>So, are you saying that the undead lich emperor in Ssraeshza Temple and his cohort of undead attendents went through the trouble of teleporting the temple and setting up and entirely airless area in the grey to avoid the Greenmist but they don't understand the calender?</p><p>They figured out the part of the prophacy that related to the extinction of their own race. The Shissar in the temple managed to avoid it. Odds are that they figured out the part where the giant rock they are sitting on is going to blow up too. Maybe not, its hard to say. </p></blockquote><p>mmmm conspiracy theories YUM...</p><p>So they saw the extinction of their race, took note of the greenmist, teleport to luclin ... Thought they were safe and then BOOM totally out of left field the moon blows up, BECAUSE Zek just couldn't have them miss out on the Greenmist Party .which is really just a reference to Absynthe, they would have gotten so trashed.</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>If I was writing Norrath's lore, they would have fled the destruction of Luclin by moving to an abandoned planar shard and found a way to harness its power in a way similar to how the gods were absorbing their planes to rempower themselves during the Age of Turmoil. Now fueled by planar energies, they are working on a plan to wrest control of the Greenmist from Cazic-Thule so they can use it to purge Norrath of the current dominant races and re-establish the eternal Empire of Ssraeshza. But then, I don't write lore for EQ2.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p>It could be a plot uncovered by Iksar.</p><p>It'd be something they'd be more likely to find out in their quest to destroy anything remotely related to the Shissar.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>troodon311 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They figured out the part of the prophacy that related to the extinction of their own race. The Shissar in the temple managed to avoid it. Odds are that they figured out the part where the giant rock they are sitting on is going to blow up too. Maybe not, its hard to say. </p></blockquote><p>I do like this idea, the question is where they would have gone?  Taelosia?  The unnamed continent on the other side of Norrath?</p></blockquote><p>Possibly. We're not 100% sure what part of Norrath the temple was from. It could be one of the sections of Kunark that isn't in game yet (though I'd doubt that. You'd think if they returned to Kunark Veniril would find out about it and the entire Sebilisian Empire would be in a panic).</p><p>If the Shissar from the temple survived Luclin, I'd fully expect that they didn't return to Norrath because of the Greenmist. They had the ability to travel amongst the planes long before any other mortal race. It is possible that they broke their way into one of the less guarded realms, like say Innovation which doesn't really have a diety in charge.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>troodon311 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They figured out the part of the prophacy that related to the extinction of their own race. The Shissar in the temple managed to avoid it. Odds are that they figured out the part where the giant rock they are sitting on is going to blow up too. Maybe not, its hard to say. </p></blockquote><p>I do like this idea, the question is where they would have gone?  Taelosia?  The unnamed continent on the other side of Norrath?</p></blockquote><p>Possibly. We're not 100% sure what part of Norrath the temple was from. It could be one of the sections of Kunark that isn't in game yet (though I'd doubt that. You'd think if they returned to Kunark Veniril would find out about it and the entire Sebilisian Empire would be in a panic).</p><p>If the Shissar from the temple survived Luclin, I'd fully expect that they didn't return to Norrath because of the Greenmist. They had the ability to travel amongst the planes long before any other mortal race. It is possible that they broke their way into one of the less guarded realms, like say Innovation which doesn't really have a diety in charge.</p></blockquote><p>Knowing Sathir, he'd probably strike a deal with them or something.</p>

[Cusashorn]

^ And knowing Rile, he'd point the Greenmist at them and wait how long it took for them to wet themselves.

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>^ And knowing Rile, he'd point the Greenmist at them and wait how long it took for them to wet themselves.</blockquote><p>Yeeeeessss.</p>

[KrescentWolf]

<p>Not to mention the fact that we have a veritable legion of adventurers running around with a copy of that very same sword. If I were a Shissar, I would never show my face in the eq2 version of norrath <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p><p>That said, I really am curious about the times just before Luclin went boom. The invading Rallosians, the combine empire, the vah shir, the shissar.... Those forces -alone- make it worth mentioning what happened.</p><p>But all we get is that the Rallosian Armies invaded, the nexus went off line, and thats the last we hear of Luclin until it goes boom.</p>

[the_snare]

<p><cite>Elialia@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>they haven't done any of the zones and stuff from the Luclin moon from EQ1.</p><p>and considering it was demolished in 2 here. it would be a lil hard to do that one. unless somehow they set up another moon. or at least move the big lizards and other ones from the luclin set of zones to some undiscovered set of lands on the other side of Norrath. or a different moon.</p></blockquote><p>Why would it be hard? It was not blown to bits, it is in large chunks now, which is just like the overrealm, why not have each piece it's own zone or part of a zone.</p>

[Cusashorn]

^ But how do you explain the whole "No atmosphere" or the fact that everything was scorched and even the ashes have been turned into ashes due to the explosion?

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>^ But how do you explain the whole "No atmosphere" or the fact that everything was scorched and even the ashes have been turned into ashes due to the explosion?</blockquote><p>Well, magic comes to mind...</p>

[Mikhail]

<p>no offence but if everything was blown up and ashes were even turned to ashes how can there be pieces still floating around that are visible in the night sky?</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>*sigh* I hate having to explain this every time.</p><p>Ever see the Fantastic Four movie? At one point, when the Human Torch was testing out his powers, he heated himself up so much that Mr. Fantastic had to douse him in water, because if he had gone any further, he would have ignited the oxygen in the atmosphere and instantly char-broil the entire planet and everything on it.</p><p>Now, looking at Luclin in the sky, you cannot see anything resembling any form of vegetation or water up there. It's all greys and blacks. That indicates to me, that when Luclin's core was detonated, all the magic and pure untapped energy that was unleashed not only shattered the moon's body, but without a doubt in my mind, also scorched everything on the surface, leaving nothing but ashes and the charred scorched surface of the chunks we see up there.</p><p>The reason why the whole moon wasn't just disintegrated was because energy always follows the path of least resistance. Why continue to burn into a large chunk when it can go around and escape out from the cracks and faults created by the initial eruption?</p><p>The atmosphere probably wouldn't just dissipate right away. There'd be enough of it to contain most of the heat and reflect it back onto the surface for a few moments while the whole thing happened.</p><p>I know all this scientific mumbo jumbo is just my theory, but please keep in mind that back in Eqlive, during the rare moments when Luclin was visible in the night sky, water, vegitation, and life in general was clearly visible up there. Contrast to Drinal, Trorsmang, Anbeal, and Cordain, who all had grey lifeless surfaces the very same as Earth's own moon has. Now the only thing clearly visible is a scorched and blackened surface of the chunks that remain. Would it be possible for something to survive? Sure, the writers can say anything for a background and we'd have no choice but to believe it. Should there be anything left up there, living, dead, undead, or otherwise? I don't think so, and I don't believe so either.</p>

[Chiel]

<p>I'm gonna leap in here and point out a couple things lol. I totally agree with your scientific analysis Cusa...but would like to point out one zone... In the Grey, no one can hear you scream. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /> Sorry I had to. Ok that zone did not have atmosphere, it was a vacuum. I still agree anything in it might be gone but it IS possible for things to survive in a vacuum up there. At least it better be possible as many times as I died in there. Another thing I'd like to point out! Whee...Luclin, the deity, was the one who used her power to create life on the moon right? Well until I hear different (or someone can point out lore already established that I missed) she's still around somewhere. There's nothing saying she couldn't come back and fix it since it was sort of her pride and joy and all. Also I doubt she'd be happy. All that said, I really hope we rediscover more things ON Norrath. The moon is all well and good and I liked it in EQ1...but I desperately want to find the rest of the places (or lore as to what happened to them) still missing that existed in EQ1. As a side note/question, can someone please tell me if we have any information on what happened to Kithicor? Cause I have some theories but need to know if I'm insane.</p><p>Edit: More insane. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>*sigh* I hate having to explain this every time.</p><p>Ever see the Fantastic Four movie? At one point, when the Human Torch was testing out his powers, he heated himself up so much that Mr. Fantastic had to douse him in water, because if he had gone any further, he would have ignited the oxygen in the atmosphere and instantly char-broil the entire planet and everything on it.</p><p>Now, looking at Luclin in the sky, you cannot see anything resembling any form of vegetation or water up there. It's all greys and blacks. That indicates to me, that when Luclin's core was detonated, all the magic and pure untapped energy that was unleashed not only shattered the moon's body, but without a doubt in my mind, also scorched everything on the surface, leaving nothing but ashes and the charred scorched surface of the chunks we see up there.</p><p>The reason why the whole moon wasn't just disintegrated was because energy always follows the path of least resistance. Why continue to burn into a large chunk when it can go around and escape out from the cracks and faults created by the initial eruption?</p><p>The atmosphere probably wouldn't just dissipate right away. There'd be enough of it to contain most of the heat and reflect it back onto the surface for a few moments while the whole thing happened.</p><p>I know all this scientific mumbo jumbo is just my theory, but please keep in mind that back in Eqlive, during the rare moments when Luclin was visible in the night sky, water, vegitation, and life in general was clearly visible up there. Contrast to Drinal, Trorsmang, Anbeal, and Cordain, who all had grey lifeless surfaces the very same as Earth's own moon has. Now the only thing clearly visible is a scorched and blackened surface of the chunks that remain. Would it be possible for something to survive? Sure, the writers can say anything for a background and we'd have no choice but to believe it. Should there be anything left up there, living, dead, undead, or otherwise? I don't think so, and I don't believe so either.</p></blockquote><p>If something was getting so hot it could ignite the atmosphere and you doused water on it the steam created should be hot enough to kill everybody for blocks. Also the explosion caused by the creation of said steam should kill Johny on the spot. Don't try to give a scientific explination for super powers and magic, everybody wants to overlook what would really happen.</p><p>We've gone around and around on this. I know your always going to say no until it happens. But lets agree that a dev could say yes despite your best protests, and until one does its a no.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>^ The point I was hoping you'd get, is that Oxygen is combustible, and if all the oxygen in the atmosphere was heated hot enough, the whole planet would be fried.</p><p>Oh and I forgot a detail. Johnny Storm wasn't doused with water, but with same foam material found in fire extinguishers.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>iirc - the Gray on Luclin (in EQ1) was an area artificially created by the Shissar around Ssraeshza Temple to prevent the Greenmist from killing them.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>^ The point I was hoping you'd get, is that Oxygen is combustible, and if all the oxygen in the atmosphere was heated hot enough, the whole planet would be fried.</p><p>Oh and I forgot a detail. Johnny Storm wasn't doused with water, but with same foam material found in fire extinguishers.</p></blockquote><p>By the time atmospheric oxygen starts to combust your talking about nucular fusion. The entire moon would be a ball of liquid magma/plasma at that heat level, every element on the elemental table that is lighter than oxygen would already be turned to plasma, and Norrath would be less than a mile from the surface of a star.</p><p>The atmospher of Norrath would boil away, mostly in the direction away from Luclin driven by the intense heat. Norrath itself actually might start to vaporize acting as a kind of explosive rocket engine that would knock it out of orbit. So once it recovered from the extreme heat from proximity to such a source it would either be rocketing towards the sun, or more likely in a direction that either keeps it warm or plunges the entire world into an eternal ice age.</p><p>Again, please don't drag science into a story. Unless the story involves only the real world and actual experiences from the author's own life it generally becomes inplausable.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Again, please don't drag science into a story.</blockquote><p>Well, there's one <em>really</em> simple science-free explanation as to why Luclin should remain a lifeless shattered collection of debris:  bringing it back and having everything all hunky-dory again would be <strong>BAD storytelling</strong>.</p><p>I loved Luclin in EQ1. I had several Vah Shir characters... a Beastlord, a Shaman, a Berserker, and a few others of lower level. I knew Paludal Caverns like the back of my hand. There wasn't a place on Luclin I hadn't explored or a mob I hadn't killed (except Vex Thal, because by the time I finished that #$%^ key my guild had moved on). I have some great memories from Luclin, and when I decided to retire from EQ1 I camped my Beastlord for the final time under a certain tree I liked, with a wonderful overview of Shadeweavers Thicket, the walls of Shar Val, and the looming face of Norrath.</p><p>But this is not EQ1. That story has moved on, and a new story is unfolding -- the story of EQ2. The little moon that I loved is <strong>gone</strong>, shattered, destroyed -- and to just say "Oh, it's OK, it really survived. Here, buy the expansion and see" would be a desecration of everything that EQ2 has built in terms of story to this date. It would be a total cop-out, a deus ex machina writing blunder that I've not seen since Sue Ellen awoke from a 'dream' and undid an entire season of "Dallas." It would be <strong>epically</strong> <strong>bad storytelling</strong>.</p>

[Chiel]

I believe you are right Banditman but that doesn't mean I was wrong about the many things that were surviving in that darn vacuum...I died quite a bit, and not because I couldn't breathe. My point was that there were creatures and such up there that had no issues chilling out in a vacuum. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And eating unsuspecting travelers...my poor poor wizard's face *whimper*.

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Again, please don't drag science into a story.</blockquote><p>Well, there's one <em>really</em> simple science-free explanation as to why Luclin should remain a lifeless shattered collection of debris:  bringing it back and having everything all hunky-dory again would be <strong>BAD storytelling</strong>.</p><p>I loved Luclin in EQ1. I had several Vah Shir characters... a Beastlord, a Shaman, a Berserker, and a few others of lower level. I knew Paludal Caverns like the back of my hand. There wasn't a place on Luclin I hadn't explored or a mob I hadn't killed (except Vex Thal, because by the time I finished that #$%^ key my guild had moved on). I have some great memories from Luclin, and when I decided to retire from EQ1 I camped my Beastlord for the final time under a certain tree I liked, with a wonderful overview of Shadeweavers Thicket, the walls of Shar Val, and the looming face of Norrath.</p><p>But this is not EQ1. That story has moved on, and a new story is unfolding -- the story of EQ2. The little moon that I loved is <strong>gone</strong>, shattered, destroyed -- and to just say "Oh, it's OK, it really survived. Here, buy the expansion and see" would be a desecration of everything that EQ2 has built in terms of story to this date. It would be a total cop-out, a deus ex machina writing blunder that I've not seen since Sue Ellen awoke from a 'dream' and undid an entire season of "Dallas." It would be <strong>epically</strong> <strong>bad storytelling</strong>.</p></blockquote><p>I'd agree with you. If we went to revisit Luclin it should be a massively altered place similar to how Everfrost was changed. You should recognize bits and peices from EQ1 but you should be just as aware that there is a lot missing and things have changed.</p><p>Now some people are going to say "Everfrost in EQ2 is the same as EQ1". I'd have to ask: where is Halas? Where are the gnolls? Why are there so few goblins? Where did the maidens come from? Where did all these lizards come from? What the heck is this world tree root?</p><p> Everfrost is both what it was, and completely changed. If Luclin was re-introduced I'd expect people to be rockhoppers. There shouldn't be any walking from one zone to another. We should see a blasted landscape where the environment is just as deadly as the inhabitants and we have to be careful where we go or we'll end up dead no matter how tough we are.</p>

[Varathos]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Now some people are going to say "Everfrost in EQ2 is the same as EQ1". I'd have to ask: where is Halas? Where are the gnolls? Why are there so few goblins? Where did the maidens come from? Where did all these lizards come from? What the heck is this world tree root?</p></blockquote><p>Exactly.</p>

[Banditman]

<h3><span style="font-size: x-small;">D</span>escription</h3> <p>The Grey used to be part of the Scarlet Desert, and still resembles it with its many sand dunes. However, long ago it became exposed to the vacuum of space. Now the place is a barren, dangerous place with few natural inhabitants. Those that remain are strong enough to live in a place with no air for long periods of time.  <span style="color: #008000;"><strong>(Note:  Not indefinitely)</strong></span></p><h3><span style="font-size: x-small;">D</span>angers</h3> <p>The entire zone is in a vacuum, which means that everyone will drown there as if they were underwater on Norrath. Use of Enduring Breath or similar spells will prevent this.</p><p>Since the Grey is a lifeless void, and you will very rarely be able to forage food or water here. You need to bring all that you might need while you journey here.</p><p>This zone appears mostly barren as you walk across it, with few signs of life evident other than the timeless golems wandering lost on the surface. However, throughout the Grey there is life just below the surface, and travel is very dangerous as monsters will often spring up right beneath your feet or in the rocks around you.</p><p>Green bold is my addition.  I would assume that, just like the adventurers, the mobs in The Grey didn't actually live there, except perhaps the elementals who would have no need of air.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><span style="color: #00cc00;">I alwaysfigured if they did a Luclin expansion it would have to be SHARDS of Luclin (GNOOOOOOOMEZZZZZ IIIIIN SCPAAAAAACE) this time around. as for how it expoded I'm thinking some form of Tectonic sheering (Probably from a goodling throwing a temper tantrums) which would do less overall damage. </span></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">Means you might be able to get away with some pockets of life in caves air held in by magical barriers with gravity altering per local.</span></p>

[Meirril]

<p>If Luclin was revisted I would be personally amused and greatly satisfied if water breathing spells didn't allow you to explore a vaccume. You'd need specially made magical apparatus that has inferior stats to adventure gear or using totems and potions or some such that allowed you a limited amount of time before you needed another.</p><p>Gnomish Bubble Helmet, maybe some kind of Gnomish Rapid Flight Pack with a nice sparkler effect so we can feel more like the old 1950's Flash Gorden or Buck Rodgers. An expansion of style over substance. Yeah yeah, people would hate it. /sigh</p>

[WeatherMan]

<p>Actually, there are two explanations I can think of that I'm surprised no one has thought of.</p><p>One, in the storytelling vein, has the gods of Norrath start fixing all the damage that they're able to without screwing around with the lives of Norrath's teeming multitudes.  Thus, while Norrath itself would remain as it is, Luclin could be pulled back together and repaired by divine fiat.  The gods do not need our consent, thanks very much.</p><p>And the second (which I would deem much more likely) involves a bunch of extradimensionals who think they can make a ton of 'dollars', employing the powers of the 'Cash Register' to arbitrarily alter the physics of Norrathian stellar principles and find a way to send anyone who wants to go to Luclin.  The portal to the reconstructed moon can be found in the 'Station Marketplace' (accesses to which can be found everywhere), cash in advance.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>I blame all of this on Gnomes.  Seriously.  Gnomes, and the quasi-modern inventions they have introduced into a Medieval Fantasy RPG, (hovercraft, submarines, spaceships, vaccum suits to name just a few), through 'tinkering' have caused no end of problems.</p>

[Aceshot]

<p>If they were to do a Luclin one, I would want it to have Drinal aswell. Maybe the Luclin shards are dungeons? We know they have weird effects on stuff, so maybe whatever nows lives inside them in twisted or reanimated? And the other moon too! We know norrath ain't the only planet, so who knows what crazy stuff is on it.</p><p>The other expansion I would like to see would be use venturing back to deal with something else. In the Shatterlands, we could have the giants, no longer having to look after the egg and Vox's spirit, moving to war. The Awakened mobalizing to join Kera in kingdom of Sky. The Followers of Anatshi rebuilding their city or becoming more aggresive under the orders of the former primer healer. Maynog and his vampire allies trying to take over the Feydwer. The effects of the death of the bloom of growth. More shards as the gods open the flood gates and we finially find out more about Errolsi.</p><p>And if we do have a new xpac, I want lore books to click on and collect <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Stop giving us them in quests. You have libarys. Add respawnable clickables!</p>

[Cusashorn]

Drinal has no atmosphere. It never had one capable of supporting life. At least with Luclin, it USED to be inhabited, but Drinal was lifeless from the very start.

[Zabjade]

<p><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I blame all of this on Gnomes.  Seriously.  Gnomes, and the quasi-modern inventions they have introduced into a Medieval Fantasy RPG, (hovercraft, submarines, spaceships, vaccum suits to name just a few), through 'tinkering' have caused no end of problems.</p></blockquote><p><strong><span style="color: #00cc00;">Umm Everyone knows it was the Erudites and their artificial Nexus. </span></strong></p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">As for Luclin being put together, the parts that are still drifting or orbiting in space could be put together but the parts captured in gravity wells (<em>while being partialy shifted to the void-Explains the undead and stuff around it</em>) might be harder to pull back.</span></p>

[Arinwulf]

<p>I just want to know, when do we get to kill the bleeding gods? Not their avatars in their summer homes on Norrath, but the gods themselves on their home turf.  Some of them need some down to earth killin'.  All of them are involved in one way or another in the cataclysms the mortal races experienced on Norrath and those poor people on Luclin.  The gods are all inherently evil and need putting down.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Mortals cannot kill gods.  That power was given to Rhoen Theer. We mortals, in our infinite wisdom, helped to steal that power from him and gave it to Kerafyrm.</p><p>That may be the shortest summary of the Sentinel's Fate expansion ever.</p>

[Velenda]

<p>I wonder, will we get to meet Kerafyrm in this game? </p><p>I'd love watch him rampage over every zone...that would be so exciting!</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Arinwulf wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I just want to know, when do we get to kill the bleeding gods? Not their avatars in their summer homes on Norrath, but the gods themselves on their home turf.  Some of them need some down to earth killin'.  All of them are involved in one way or another in the cataclysms the mortal races experienced on Norrath and those poor people on Luclin.  The gods are all inherently evil and need putting down.</p></blockquote><p>Umm...actually that is the reason why the gods withdrew from Norrath in the first place which set up all the events that happened during the Age of Cataclysms. The Rending, The Shattering, The Second Rallosian Army? All thanks to adventurers invading the gods home planes and the gods reaction to it.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>As a plot device, allowing the players to kill off the principal protagonists in the game is not a good idea.  They are the frame upon which the game rests.  Without them, the game world becomes unstable and unknowable, and collapses from a lore stand point. (IMHO)</p>

[KrescentWolf]

<p>-If- you'll meet Kerafyrm?</p><p>You already have <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> A few times over i might add.</p>