Wizard vers Elementalist

[Galathas]

<p>common description : ele better to level up, wizzy more damage in endcontent.</p><p>recent rumor : eles more damage in endcontent, wizzy useless.</p><p>whats right ? please only answers from experienced players.</p>

[Krilinye]

<p>Im guessing you mean Conjurors, right?</p><p>And a good wizzy can outparse a conjuror any day as far as ive seen in end content.</p><p>Theres ofc encounters where a conjuror can outparse a wizard, but i dont see it as common that Wizards are outparsed by conjurors on raid encounters.</p>

[Griffildur]

<p>Might want to explain what you want to find out.</p><p>We have no elementalists in eq2 so first get your names right.</p><p>Second, what is this rumour you're talking about ?</p><p>Third, the classes, while not perfect, can all be played to a decent level. It just takes a decent player behind that class ...</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>Krilinye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Im guessing you mean Conjurors, right?</p><p>And a good wizzy can outparse a conjuror any day as far as ive seen in end content.</p><p>Theres ofc encounters where a conjuror can outparse a wizard, but i dont see it as common that Wizards are outparsed by conjurors on raid encounters.</p></blockquote><p>Wizards and Conjurors are very equal in end game.  It all comes down to gear and skill.</p><p>I have L90/300 of both, and they can both solo fine.  They are definitely very DIFFERENT in the way they solo, but they are both quite effective.</p>

[Galathas]

<p>im from europe and in my language the conjurer is called elementalist, thought its same in english. sorry for that.</p><p>the rumor came up as i heard from some raidforces talking about it. since the last addon the conjurers pet grows in effectiveness with the conjurors growth, so each armor, spelll degree etc from the conjuror feedbacks on the pet. this makes the pet tremendous strong and so the conjuror outdamages the wizard. thats what i heard. maybe further patches will raise the wizards damage, maybe pets are a problem in some raids because of uncontrollable effects.</p><p>i want to play one of each archetype, wizard or conjuror in mages class. hard to decide. i think wizards are more fragile while leveling up and are not usuable in solo content like the conjuror is. im not sure of that. so i ask you about it.</p>

[Lcneed]

<p>I play a zerker and usually the MT for instance grouping.  A wizard who out dps me is going to get aggro.  Unlike other tanks, zerker could only keep aggro if we out dps the other people in the group.  Necro and Conjy, on the other hand, can easily out dps me and not get aggro.  Master and pet aggro are separate.  I like grouping with Conjy.  They buff me, heal me, out dps me and not pull aggro.</p>

[Illmarr]

<p><cite>Galathas wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>im from europe and in my language the conjurer is called elementalist, thought its same in english. sorry for that.</p><p>the rumor came up as i heard from some raidforces talking about it. since the last addon the conjurers pet grows in effectiveness with the conjurors growth, so each armor, spelll degree etc from the conjuror feedbacks on the pet. this makes the pet tremendous strong and so the conjuror outdamages the wizard. thats what i heard. maybe further patches will raise the wizards damage, maybe pets are a problem in some raids because of uncontrollable effects.</p><p>i want to play one of each archetype, wizard or conjuror in mages class. hard to decide. i think wizards are more fragile while leveling up and are not usuable in solo content like the conjuror is. im not sure of that. so i ask you about it.</p></blockquote><p>No need to be sorry, some people need to learn not everyone is American.</p><p>As said, both can solo via different means, Conjuror has the pet to shield them, but if they gain aggro they are basically in the same boat as a Wizard until they have some AA in defensive tricks. As for the pet, the bonuses from armor and AA are shared with the pet, but I don't believe spell quality is unless it's a spell that the pet is the direct target of.</p><p>Endgame Conjys are much closer if not even given equal skill/gear, but I wouldn't say they are signifigantly ahead of Wizards</p>

[Banditman]

<p>The pet has his own spells.  The quality of those spells is determined by the quality of the spell used to call the pet.  So, if you used the Adept Mage Pet, the pet will cast Adept quality spells.  If you use the Master version to summon the pet, likewise, the pet will cast Master versions of its spells.</p>

[Trensharo]

<p><cite>Lcneed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I play a zerker and usually the MT for instance grouping.  A wizard who out dps me is going to get aggro.  Unlike other tanks, zerker could only keep aggro if we out dps the other people in the group.  Necro and Conjy, on the other hand, can easily out dps me and not get aggro.  Master and pet aggro are separate.  I like grouping with Conjy.  They buff me, heal me, out dps me and not pull aggro.</p></blockquote><p>Unless the Wizard is casting on the pull, in the average heroic the chances of a Wizard pulling agro off of you before a Summoner Mage pet is small.  That's just my experience as a Summoner, having grouped with some really good Wizards and Tanks.</p><p>The Mage pets generate enough Agro to account for the lack of its masters agro being coupled with it, and MORE.  Their TPS is way out of balance right now, and the Devs need to find a way to lower it.</p><p>Also, yes, Pets share their masters' stats.  But, because there are pet specific AAs, the pet always has superior CB/Pot/SDA and Casting/Reuse/Recovery Speed compared to the Summoner (Unless capped, on the latter).  That's notwithstanding the big nukes that are fired off the pet (Soul Burn, EB isn't a big nuke, but a series of smaller nukes but it does generate quite a bit of Thread).  The pets prioritize AA Debuffs and nukes over their big skills, so they almost always start off with Minion Mark and two hard hitters (i.e. it can spike about 100k DPS at times, just on its own).  Their AI tends to be coded in a way that they keep a 90% uptime on like 2 DoTs on the MOB as well (at least the Grim Sorcerer).</p><p>If a Wizzy cannot outDPS a tank, perhaps find another Wizzy?  There's no excuse for a Wizzy to be threat capped at such low DPS levels.  The only explanation I can think of are:</p><p>1.  Tank is bad.</p><p>2.  Tank is bad and is being helped by Summoners who are conscious of their pet agro bar and YoYoing their pets to prevent pulls.  It doesn't take much work to outDPS the tank, so they still come out "ahead" that way.</p><p>Summoner mage pets pull more TPS than Sorcerers who do considerably more DPS than them, In my experiences.  They certainly out-threat the Summoners.  Unless a Summoner got a huge lead over the pet (forgot to pet attack) and does something careless like Lifeburning while a MOB is incoming, he or she will - 90% of the time - only get agro after their pet gets agro and dies (in which case the Summoner is always bumped to the top of the hate list).  I never pull agro on my Necro, only via the pet.</p>

[Elskidor]

<p><cite>Lcneed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> A wizard who out dps me is going to get aggro.</p></blockquote><p>LOL. Your either the best [Removed for Content] Zerker in the world or have never played with any good dps classes EVER. While Zerkers have more dps than they should, there is no reason why a real dps class should ever be out dpsed by a Zerker. And no reason why a tank should not beable to keep aggro because a dps class does more damage than he/she. There are other contributing factors if you lose aggro to a wizard because he/she nukes harder than you can swing.</p>

[Skilley]

<p><cite>Lcneed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A wizard who out dps me is going to get aggro. </p></blockquote><p>I hate to break it to you, and I'm not trying to be mean, but if this is true you are complete garbage as a berserker. Reroll to a bard please.</p>

[Lcneed]

<p><cite>Skilley wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lcneed wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A wizard who out dps me is going to get aggro. </p></blockquote><p>I hate to break it to you, and I'm not trying to be mean, but if this is true you are complete garbage as a berserker. Reroll to a bard please.</p></blockquote><p>I did actually... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />  Zerker does not have any easy mode threat generation like other figher class.    I am not saying that Wiz cannot outdamage a Zerker, but any wizard who tries to constantly out damage the Zerker (if he/she is the MT) is going to get aggro at one point or another in a fight.   I am sure there are other zerkers out there with better gears and much better dps to hold aggro better, but if there is another way to hold aggro (as a zerker) I would like to know.   The only way I see right now is to betray to guardian.</p><p>I know that a wizard who does 50k dps constantly is going to get aggo if I am in the MT of the group.  I have grouped with Necro who does 80k dps constantly and never once got aggro.  I have also been in group where I am not the MT and I have definitely seen wizard grab aggro more often than necro or conjy.  Although Conjy likes to use their EB and get aggro instantly.</p><p>For this discussion, lets say I am a very bad tank who can't hold aggro.  It seems a bit unfair that wiz has to hold back dps grouped with a bad tank, and pet class does not have to.   Just saying. :p</p><p>It won't matter in the end game contents, since usually zerker would not be the MT of a raid.  It would matter if you are level up your mage grouping with tanks, like me, who cannot hold aggro.</p>

[GorgukGrimmfist]

<p>Wizzy should always win out over the conj in solo content, in aoe situtaions I can see the conj comnig out ahead.  I will say summoners and sorcs do seem alot closer than they used to be.</p>

[Silzin]

From the stand point of a raid tanking monk, I have a few ideas what may be going on with the Zerker and the other dps classes here. First the Zerker need to get as much +Hate as possible, there are 3 slots for it in white adorns and there is also a yellow and red for it also, they will be your best friend. Next get ether a trouby for dehate on the dps or a dirge for +hate on you, this will help a lot. Also a coercer will help on your hate and the Wiz hate, but not as much on the summiteers hate. Some times the way Wizards deal damage can be hard to deal with since they more spick dmg it seams then the summonses. But the summonses pets will dray more agro then the wiz. The way the summonses are probably doing more and not taking agro is they can use there scout pet, that will do less dps by its self but will also do a group dehate (same as the bards). So if you get a trouby or dirge it will help your hate a lot.

[Laih]

<p>O.o</p><p>/sigh</p>