The Power Level of the Gods (What, 9000?)

[kelvmor]

<p>What? 9000?! No, but seriously. I was in a discussion the other day concerning the power levels of the gods; which ones are stronger than the others. In this particular case, it was about whether Veeshan matched the Greater Elemental Gods (in particular, Fennin Ro) in power, or whether she were weaker, perhaps as powerful as Rallos Zek or some such. Comments?</p>

[Morghus]

<p>I've always seen it as:</p><p>Nameless</p><p>Elemental</p><p>Veeshan</p><p>Gods</p><p>Demi Gods</p><p>That saying, Veeshan I dont think has ever really been quantified, due to her being nearly absent from everything, as though everything were beneath her notice...so she may or may not be where I see her, or she may be equal to the elemental gods but simply doesn't care.</p>

[Gninja]

<p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p>

[Mixxit]

<p>oooerr</p>

[Barbai]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>Nice I always knew that dragon lady had to be the best. Though I am abit biased about the whole dragon thing.</p>

[Zabjade]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #00cc00;">That was my thought as well, after all she did literally put a massive Gash on Norrath's South Pole. Although whether or not it is still there is unknown...and may be why the Dragons are failing as a race?</span></p><p><span style="font-size: xx-small; color: #00cc00;">BTW would love to have many of my PC's take the<strong> Nameless </strong>as a Deity.</span></p>

[NamaeZero]

<p>Makes sense to me. The one time we've actually seen Veeshan she was a significant percentage of the size of Norrath. When a goddess is large enough to have a gravitational pull, it makes other more human-sized gods look sort of puny.</p><p><cite>Zabjade wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: xx-small; color: #00cc00;">BTW would love to have many of my PC's take the<strong> Nameless </strong>as a Deity.</span></p></blockquote><p>Yeah, I think the Enchanter god, "Agnostic" needs to make a return to Norrath as well. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>You'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that a dragon is more powerful than the very gods who maintain the laws of physics and allow physical matter and structure to exist.</p>

[Shotneedle]

<p>I'd worship Veeshan.</p>

[NamaeZero]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>You'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that a dragon is more powerful than the very gods who maintain the laws of physics and allow physical matter and structure to exist.</p></blockquote><p>Not just<em> a </em>dragon. The goddess of all dragons. This is the dragon god that the other gods need 24 raider gods to fight, yo.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>You'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that a dragon is more powerful than the very gods who maintain the laws of physics and allow physical matter and structure to exist.</p></blockquote><p>Thats the form she takes, its like the rathe council (aka elemental earth god) are really not 12 little tribal men. She happens to take the form of a planet size crystal dragon.</p>

[Cusashorn]

And that makes her above the beings who allow the existence of physical matter?

[Mixxit]

<p>Her roll is that of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_of_the_Ainur" target="_blank">Melkor </a>perhaps? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Mixxit]

<p>and by roll i mean role!</p><p>Veeshan's rolls would destroy an entire galaxy!</p>

[Wilin]

<p>I'd suckle from her...huh?</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>You'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that a dragon is more powerful than the very gods who maintain the laws of physics and allow physical matter and structure to exist.</p></blockquote><p>I've been a little unclear about Veeshan. I think I remember Veeshan being listed as one of the elemental gods (in the air family)? I also think that the creation story of Norrath placed her origin outside of the Norrathian pathenon. In other words, she wasn't created by the Nameless and came from another reality.</p><p>I could be quite wrong on both accounts. /shrug</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>And that makes her above the beings who allow the existence of physical matter?</blockquote><p>The elemental gods allow the existence of physical matter? Are we sure of that? When Anashti-Sul was banished, a new prime healer was appointed. We know of at least 2 gods of pestilence. Who is to say that the elemental gods cannot be replaced? Who is to say that such a thing hasn't already happened in the past, long before the history we know about? Veeshan supposedly rules the Plane of Sky (or did at one time) that seems like a pretty big deal to me. Who knows how much that portfolio encompasses?</p>

[Cyliena]

<p>I was going to write down the "history of norrath" text from my original EQ manual, but <a href="http://loreofnorrath.wordpress.com/history-of-everquest/" target="_blank">this site has the entire thing</a> and saves me the time. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Basically the Nameless created everything, so the argument that the elemental gods allow the existance of physical matter is non-existant.</p><p>It's a good and informative read and really makes it sound like all the gods that the Nameless created were equals with their own strengths and weaknesses, but that none of them wanted to directly #$%^ with Veeshan--they just wanted to keep an eye on her creations. That's how I always viewed her, so I'd agree with Gninja's assessment. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Cyliena wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Basically the Nameless created everything, so the argument that the elemental gods allow the existance of physical matter is non-existant.</p></blockquote><p>The way I'm gonna twist those words is that the Nameless created the beings who allow the universe to exist, and thus "created everything".</p>

[Nebbeny]

<p><cite>Buffrat@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'd worship Veeshan.</p></blockquote><p>Well, she was one of the gods that bards could worship iirc <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[kelvmor]

<p>Yeah. Also, if Veeshan is more powerful than Rallos Zek, but Rallos Zek can apparently attain the power to do battle with Kerafyrm, who has the power to kill Veeshan...</p><p>Doesn't that mean Rallos Zek is as strong as (or perhaps stronger than) Veeshan?</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah. Also, if Veeshan is more powerful than Rallos Zek, but Rallos Zek can apparently attain the power to do battle with Kerafyrm, who has the power to kill Veeshan...</p><p>Doesn't that mean Rallos Zek is as strong as (or perhaps stronger than) Veeshan?</p></blockquote><p>Not really. Kerafyrm may have the power to kill gods now, and he also might not considering how unstable it is within him...as said by Theer himself. Kerafyrm is still mortal, he is now however a timebomb that if killed could erase all existence unless we stop Rallos, and then find an alternative way of dealing with Kerafyrm. Like I said earlier, Veeshan's power is unquantified, we do not know where its limit is at aside from "not as great as the Nameless but more than everyone else". Kerafyrm is powerful, but still very much as mortal as any other dragon as far as we know.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p>Well, here's the thing. Rallos doesn't really want Kerafyrm to die, so much as he wants to be able to be unstoppable, even by Veeshan. I think his plan was to somehow steal the power, /then/ kill Kerafyrm, then go on and be a god-killing juggernaut of war.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, here's the thing. Rallos doesn't really want Kerafyrm to die, so much as he wants to be able to be unstoppable, even by Veeshan.</p></blockquote><p>Why would he care about Veeshan? From what we have seen of her actions...or lack therof...she doesn't care much about anyone or anything, even her own creations.</p><p>As we have been told already, the power of Theer is unstable and possibly unusable unless it is within Theer himself, where it belongs. If Rallos ever obtained that kind of power and got it to work for him, there would be nothing to keep his hubris in check.</p><p>He would go and conquer everyone and everything until there was nothing left for his creations to conquer, he would rule everything, grow bored, and war and conflict would no longer have any point in existing because of his own absolute dominion. A smarter being, would realize that that is not what they in fact want when it conflicts with their own purpose.</p><p>By that point, the only thing he could do to keep himself from growing bored would be to cause his own creations to tear each other apart, and split into divided factions to war with each other, eternally and forever with no purpose.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, here's the thing. Rallos doesn't really want Kerafyrm to die, so much as he wants to be able to be unstoppable, even by Veeshan.</p></blockquote><p>Why would he care about Veeshan? From what we have seen of her actions...or lack therof...she doesn't care much about anyone or anything, even her own creations.</p><p>As we have been told already, the power of Theer is unstable and possibly unusable unless it is within Theer himself, where it belongs. If Rallos ever obtained that kind of power and got it to work for him, there would be nothing to keep his hubris in check.</p><p>He would go and conquer everyone and everything until there was nothing left for his creations to conquer, he would rule everything, grow bored, and war and conflict would no longer have any point in existing because of his own absolute dominion. A smarter being, would realize that that is not what they in fact want when it conflicts with their own purpose.</p><p>By that point, the only thing he could do to keep himself from growing bored would be to cause his own creations to tear each other apart, and split into divided factions to war with each other, eternally and forever with no purpose.</p></blockquote><p>What I was trying to say there is that Veeshan wouldn't be able to stop him if she wanted to.</p><p>Also, I think it's pretty much impossible for Rallos to get "bored with war", when he's the god of war.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, here's the thing. Rallos doesn't really want Kerafyrm to die, so much as he wants to be able to be unstoppable, even by Veeshan.</p></blockquote><p>Why would he care about Veeshan? From what we have seen of her actions...or lack therof...she doesn't care much about anyone or anything, even her own creations.</p><p>As we have been told already, the power of Theer is unstable and possibly unusable unless it is within Theer himself, where it belongs. If Rallos ever obtained that kind of power and got it to work for him, there would be nothing to keep his hubris in check.</p><p>He would go and conquer everyone and everything until there was nothing left for his creations to conquer, he would rule everything, grow bored, and war and conflict would no longer have any point in existing because of his own absolute dominion. A smarter being, would realize that that is not what they in fact want when it conflicts with their own purpose.</p><p>By that point, the only thing he could do to keep himself from growing bored would be to cause his own creations to tear each other apart, and split into divided factions to war with each other, eternally and forever with no purpose.</p></blockquote><p>What I was trying to say there is that Veeshan wouldn't be able to stop him if she wanted to.</p><p>Also, I think it's pretty much impossible for Rallos to get "bored with war", when he's the god of war.</p></blockquote><p>Sure there is, there must be conflict and opposition for there to be war. If he crushes everything, there will be nothing to oppose him. Without something to challenge him, there would be no war. They can train and drill, and practice all they want, but to what end if he dominates everything? What would they be training for if everything has been conquered?</p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, here's the thing. Rallos doesn't really want Kerafyrm to die, so much as he wants to be able to be unstoppable, even by Veeshan.</p></blockquote><p>Why would he care about Veeshan? From what we have seen of her actions...or lack therof...she doesn't care much about anyone or anything, even her own creations.</p><p>As we have been told already, the power of Theer is unstable and possibly unusable unless it is within Theer himself, where it belongs. If Rallos ever obtained that kind of power and got it to work for him, there would be nothing to keep his hubris in check.</p><p>He would go and conquer everyone and everything until there was nothing left for his creations to conquer, he would rule everything, grow bored, and war and conflict would no longer have any point in existing because of his own absolute dominion. A smarter being, would realize that that is not what they in fact want when it conflicts with their own purpose.</p><p>By that point, the only thing he could do to keep himself from growing bored would be to cause his own creations to tear each other apart, and split into divided factions to war with each other, eternally and forever with no purpose.</p></blockquote><p>What I was trying to say there is that Veeshan wouldn't be able to stop him if she wanted to.</p><p>Also, I think it's pretty much impossible for Rallos to get "bored with war", when he's the god of war.</p></blockquote><p>Sure there is, there must be conflict and opposition for there to be war. If he crushes everything, there will be nothing to oppose him. Without something to challenge him, there would be no war. They can train and drill, and practice all they want, but to what end if he dominates everything? What would they be training for if everything has been conquered?</p></blockquote><p>That's when he has gods create whole new planets and races. For him to conquer.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, here's the thing. Rallos doesn't really want Kerafyrm to die, so much as he wants to be able to be unstoppable, even by Veeshan.</p></blockquote><p>Why would he care about Veeshan? From what we have seen of her actions...or lack therof...she doesn't care much about anyone or anything, even her own creations.</p><p>As we have been told already, the power of Theer is unstable and possibly unusable unless it is within Theer himself, where it belongs. If Rallos ever obtained that kind of power and got it to work for him, there would be nothing to keep his hubris in check.</p><p>He would go and conquer everyone and everything until there was nothing left for his creations to conquer, he would rule everything, grow bored, and war and conflict would no longer have any point in existing because of his own absolute dominion. A smarter being, would realize that that is not what they in fact want when it conflicts with their own purpose.</p><p>By that point, the only thing he could do to keep himself from growing bored would be to cause his own creations to tear each other apart, and split into divided factions to war with each other, eternally and forever with no purpose.</p></blockquote><p>What I was trying to say there is that Veeshan wouldn't be able to stop him if she wanted to.</p><p>Also, I think it's pretty much impossible for Rallos to get "bored with war", when he's the god of war.</p></blockquote><p>Sure there is, there must be conflict and opposition for there to be war. If he crushes everything, there will be nothing to oppose him. Without something to challenge him, there would be no war. They can train and drill, and practice all they want, but to what end if he dominates everything? What would they be training for if everything has been conquered?</p></blockquote><p>That's when he has gods create whole new planets and races. For him to conquer.</p></blockquote><p>What gods will there be if he destroys them all, while drunk on his newfound power? He would actually have to plan and think past what is only directly in front of him if he wanted to create a self-sustaining eternal war, which judging by his might makes right philosophy, the history of his mortal army's defeats being mostly their own doing, and his latest careless plan, seems an unlikely result.</p><p>You are projecting intelligence and competence, to one of several gods, who aside from a few, are really no more than incredibly powerful, <span>sociopathic children who are just as flawed if not more so than their own creations, which they constantly pretend to be superior than.</span></p>

[Runelaron]

<p>The gods in power are explained in the first EQ lore.</p><p>As it goes there was nothing, The Nameless created the universe and a powerfull dragon to guard it Veeshan.</p><p>She could creat life to whatever she touched, So he scard Norrath with her claw (western wastes - neer veeshans temple) not in game untill ... well.. </p><p>After that this world came to life. From there Quarum God of all Elements oversaw  everything and bestowed his power to the four elemental protectors.</p><p>Brell (earth), Fennin ro (fire), Xegony (Air), and Prexus (Water) </p><p>From that they maintained the balance of nature.. Then the races came.. as they grew the gods oversaw them and there way of life.</p><p>Thats when it becomes a Cluster F*** that would take way to long to explain.</p><p>Theres your top 3 power tree though.</p><p>you can find more out here <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Gods">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Gods</a></p><p>and the origons here <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/Category:Gods_of_Norrath">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wik...Gods_of_Norrath</a></p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The gods in power are explained in the first EQ lore.</p><p>As it goes there was nothing, The Nameless created the universe and a powerfull dragon to guard it Veeshan.</p><p>She could creat life to whatever she touched, So he scard Norrath with her claw (western wastes - neer veeshans temple) not in game untill ... well.. </p><p>After that this world came to life. From there Quarum God of all Elements oversaw  everything and bestowed his power to the four elemental protectors.</p><p>Brell (earth), Fennin ro (fire), Xegony (Air), and Prexus (Water) </p><p>From that they maintained the balance of nature.. Then the races came.. as they grew the gods oversaw them and there way of life.</p><p>Thats when it becomes a Cluster F*** that would take way to long to explain.</p><p>Theres your top 3 power tree though.</p><p>you can find more out here <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Gods">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Gods</a></p><p>and the origons here <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/Category:Gods_of_Norrath">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wik...Gods_of_Norrath</a></p></blockquote><p>The Rathe governs Earth. But that does remind me; Brell and Veeshan are directly opposed to each other. Shouldn't Brell, uh. Be more powerful?</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The gods in power are explained in the first EQ lore.</p><p>As it goes there was nothing, The Nameless created the universe and a powerfull dragon to guard it Veeshan.</p><p>She could creat life to whatever she touched, So he scard Norrath with her claw (western wastes - neer veeshans temple) not in game untill ... well.. </p><p>After that this world came to life. From there Quarum God of all Elements oversaw  everything and bestowed his power to the four elemental protectors.</p><p>Brell (earth), Fennin ro (fire), Xegony (Air), and Prexus (Water) </p><p>From that they maintained the balance of nature.. Then the races came.. as they grew the gods oversaw them and there way of life.</p><p>Thats when it becomes a Cluster F*** that would take way to long to explain.</p><p>Theres your top 3 power tree though.</p><p>you can find more out here <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Gods">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Gods</a></p><p>and the origons here <a href="http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/Category:Gods_of_Norrath">http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wik...Gods_of_Norrath</a></p></blockquote><p>The Rathe governs Earth. But that does remind me; Brell and Veeshan are directly opposed to each other. Shouldn't Brell, uh. Be more powerful?</p></blockquote><p>You dont need to match someone in power to be a thorn in their side or otherwise irk them somehow. That information is kinda ancient though.</p><p>That said though, there is woefully little known about Veeshan aside from the fact she created dragons, created life on Norrath, and departed never to return or even interact with her children.</p><p>We know from the ascent zone, that a tiny shard from her claws can infuse life where there apparently was none, and in EQ1 Zeb refers to her as the "Lifegiver dragon"...and Norrath is referred by him as her world, and dragons view Norrath as her gift...that we and others are ruining.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Runelaron wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The gods in power are explained in the first EQ lore.</p><p>As it goes there was nothing, The Nameless created the universe and a powerfull dragon to guard it Veeshan.</p><p>She could creat life to whatever she touched, So he scard Norrath with her claw (western wastes - neer veeshans temple) not in game untill ... well.. </p><p>After that this world came to life. From there Quarum God of all Elements oversaw  everything and bestowed his power to the four elemental protectors.</p><p>Brell (earth), Fennin ro (fire), Xegony (Air), and Prexus (Water) </p></blockquote><p>I really think you just made some of that up... or misunderstood a few details, which happens all the time.</p><p>We know that the Nameless allows existence and created the universe, but I've never heard anything about him creating Veeshan specifically to be the Guardian of the Universe.</p><p>Next, Quarm (not Quarum) is not the God of the Elements. He's the physical manifestation of all 6 elemental gods (counting Povar, E'Ci, and Tarew Marr as 3) combined together.</p><p>Quarm = Captain Planet.</p><p>Third, The Rathe Council governs Earth, and the three mentioned above are the Triumvirate who governs water. Prexus was created later, and he's merely the God of the <em>Oceans</em>.</p>

[Lalen]

<p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>Nameless -- I mean he DID destroy Norrath afterall in the lore of Seeds of Destruction.  Just luckly Drizzul Ro found a way to distort time to get the adventurers to reverse this fate.  In such case I would say the power award goes to..... Drizzul Ro!</p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>Nameless -- I mean he DID destroy Norrath afterall in the lore of Seeds of Destruction.  Just luckly Drizzul Ro found a way to distort time to get the adventurers to reverse this fate.  In such case I would say the power award goes to..... Drizzul Ro!</p></blockquote><p>Druzzil Ro, I believe, was merely a creation of Solusek Ro, who decided that he didn't want the burden of being both the Sun God and the god of magic.</p>

[Mixxit]

<p>And a child of Erollisi (who is a child of tarew) could become an equal in a with fight Rallos Zek</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lalen@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>Nameless -- I mean he DID destroy Norrath afterall in the lore of Seeds of Destruction.  Just luckly Drizzul Ro found a way to distort time to get the adventurers to reverse this fate.  In such case I would say the power award goes to..... Drizzul Ro!</p></blockquote><p>Druzzil Ro, I believe, was merely a creation of Solusek Ro, who decided that he didn't want the burden of being both the Sun God and the god of magic.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah but she's the Goddess of Magic, meaning she literally has the power to do ANYTHING simply because she doesn't have to explain how it works. She has the power to reverse anything the Nameless wills in the universe just because she can.</p><p>Besides, I shouldn't have to mention that Seeds of Destruction never happened here, so the Nameless' demonstration of power remains to be seen in EQ2.</p>

[Meirril]

<p>I've never really thought about this, but Veeshan is the God of Sky. This is a similar position to Prexus as the God of Oceans. I'm not saying the two of them are equals, but they hold similar positions. Strangely enough, there is no God of Lands or something similar. Maybe Brell?</p><p>I'm still of the opinion that Veeshan is an elemental diety as we only know of three types of dieties (Elemental, Influence, Spirit). Demi-gods are mortals given power by a diety and usually have control over one aspect the imbuing diety controls. Lesser dieties still fit in the same categories of other dieties. Spirits are powerful beings that don't quite have full diety status but still have a great deal of influence over a limited area (often more powerful at that spot than a diety would be actually).</p><p>Elemental dieties are basically known for being created directly by the Nameless, having direct control over a primordial force, and generally being considered more powerful than the other gods. Also for being aloof and less likely to meddel in the affairs of others. Many of the Dieties of Influence are directly related to the Elemental Gods.</p><p>Dieties of Influence are mostly known for associating with something either physically located in the world (Sky, Ocean, Underground), or an emotion (love, hate, fear) or an ideal (Honor, Justice, Betrayal,War). While considered to be less powerful or at least less important than the elemental dieties when it comes to matters directly relating to their sphere of influence they seem to be unbeatable. Generally speaking each of the gods of influence generally wants to promote their sphere of influence to expand (i.e. more Wars for Rallos, more hatred for Innoruuk, more fear for Cazic). We're not actually sure if that just pleases each diety or makes them more powerful. Power seems to be very fluid between dieties (i.e. depends on writer's whim more than some hard fast number. See Shard of Love for a good example on how weak a diety can be.)</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've never really thought about this, but Veeshan is the God of Sky. This is a similar position to Prexus as the God of Oceans. I'm not saying the two of them are equals, but they hold similar positions. Strangely enough, there is no God of Lands or something similar. Maybe Brell?</p><p>I'm still of the opinion that Veeshan is an elemental diety as we only know of three types of dieties (Elemental, Influence, Spirit). Demi-gods are mortals given power by a diety and usually have control over one aspect the imbuing diety controls. Lesser dieties still fit in the same categories of other dieties. Spirits are powerful beings that don't quite have full diety status but still have a great deal of influence over a limited area (often more powerful at that spot than a diety would be actually).</p><p>Elemental dieties are basically known for being created directly by the Nameless, having direct control over a primordial force, and generally being considered more powerful than the other gods. Also for being aloof and less likely to meddel in the affairs of others. Many of the Dieties of Influence are directly related to the Elemental Gods.</p><p>Dieties of Influence are mostly known for associating with something either physically located in the world (Sky, Ocean, Underground), or an emotion (love, hate, fear) or an ideal (Honor, Justice, Betrayal,War). While considered to be less powerful or at least less important than the elemental dieties when it comes to matters directly relating to their sphere of influence they seem to be unbeatable. Generally speaking each of the gods of influence generally wants to promote their sphere of influence to expand (i.e. more Wars for Rallos, more hatred for Innoruuk, more fear for Cazic). We're not actually sure if that just pleases each diety or makes them more powerful. Power seems to be very fluid between dieties (i.e. depends on writer's whim more than some hard fast number. See Shard of Love for a good example on how weak a diety can be.)</p></blockquote><p>Tunare and Brell Serilis basically cover the finer aspects of geography, but it still pretty much falls under the Rathe's domain.</p>

[Mixxit]

<p><cite>J.R.R Tolkien wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; color: #000000;"><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em;">1. <a title="Morgoth" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgoth">Melkor</a> is introduced, and the Ainur begin their Chorus. The first Ainu to be named in the histories, Melkor (‘Arises in Might’) is described as the most powerful of the Ainur and as knowing much of Ilúvatar’s thoughts, including something of each of the primary themes that prefigure the other Ainur. He develops impatience with the schoolish process of thematic elaboration: like a precocious child, Melkor begins thinking of certain musical ideas and themes as being ‘all his own’, and he feels compelled to develop them apace. Melkor even harbours the desire to externally manifest his ideas (private ideas, as he thinks them) and to become a creator of beings himself. When the choir of the Ainur finally embark on the fully collaborative elaboration of Ilúvatar’s grand plan, Melkor participates with all the others, yet he stands forth and inserts his very different thematic adornments, which disrupts the harmony. One reason his music is so different is that he’s spent too much time 'alone,' so his themes appear to have a singular, rather than contextual, origin. The ‘battle’ in the choir of the Ainur rages back and forth with the ‘pro-Ilúvatar’ Music described as "deep and wide and beautiful, but slow and blended with an immeasurable sorrow, from which its beauty chiefly came." (<em>Silmarillion</em> p 17). Melkor’s music, on the other hand, is said to have been "loud, and vain, and endlessly repeated … And it essayed to drown the other music by the violence of its voice … " (Ibid.) But, despite Melkor’s best efforts to mar and utterly overthrow the Great Music, his discordant music’s "most triumphant notes were taken by the other and woven into its own solemn pattern." (Ibid. [Compare <em><a title="The Book of Lost Tales" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Lost_Tales">The Book of Lost Tales</a></em> – Vol 1, “One was very great and deep and beautiful, but it was mingled with an unquenchable sorrow, while the other was now grown to unity and a system of its own, but was loud and vain and arrogant, braying triumphantly against the other as it thought to drown it, yet ever, as it essayed to clash most fearsomely, finding itself but in some manner supplementing or harmonizing with its rival.” p 54. also compare <em><a title="The Lost Road and Other Writings" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lost_Road_and_Other_Writings">The Lost Road</a></em> “The other had grown now to a unity and system, yet an imperfect one, save insofar as derived still from the eldest theme of Ilúvatar…” p 158.])</p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em;">2. The Great Music of the Ainur progresses thus: Ilúvatar introduces a First Theme to the choir of the Ainur and Melkor ‘spoils’ it, with some other Ainur starting to twist their music to Melkor's theme. (some of these Ainur may have become in the later histories characters like the <a class="mw-redirect" title="Balrogs" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balrogs">Balrogs</a>,<a title="Ungoliant" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ungoliant">Ungoliant</a> and <a title="Sauron" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauron">Sauron</a> himself, but for others it could have been a temporary weakness.) Next, Ilúvatar imposes a Second Theme, and again Melkor corrupts it. Ilúvatar then proposes a Third Theme that Melkor attempts to corrupt through sheer force of volume of his own, but the power of the Third Theme is in the very subtlety that Melkor's lacks, and thus he never succeeds. In fact, the Music actually manages to incorporate some of Melkor's elements as a genuine improvement to itself. Still, despite neither Theme managing to gain the upper hand, so much power was poured by each side into their Music, that the halls of Ilúvatar shook, and The One decides to put an end to the strife with the conducting of “…one chord, deeper than the Abyss, higher than the Firmament, piercing as the light of the eye of Ilúvatar…” (Ibid.) After the Great Music stops, Ilúvatar promptly praises Melkor, chastises him, and then leaves the Ainur for time to their own thoughts.</p></span></p></blockquote><p><div><p>I still hold she plays a role similiar to that of Melkor</p><p>The other gods are in union (Ainur) and Veeshan (Melkor) is more powerful than all of them but against each other in their conflict, the union of gods (Ainur) and their enemy Veeshan (Melkor) create a beautiful overall symphony of everything to serve the nameless (Iluvatar)</p><p style="margin-top: 0.4em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0.5em; margin-left: 0px; line-height: 1.5em;"> </p></div></p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I've never really thought about this, but Veeshan is the God of Sky. This is a similar position to Prexus as the God of Oceans. I'm not saying the two of them are equals, but they hold similar positions. Strangely enough, there is no God of Lands or something similar. Maybe Brell?</p><p>I'm still of the opinion that Veeshan is an elemental diety as we only know of three types of dieties (Elemental, Influence, Spirit). Demi-gods are mortals given power by a diety and usually have control over one aspect the imbuing diety controls. Lesser dieties still fit in the same categories of other dieties. Spirits are powerful beings that don't quite have full diety status but still have a great deal of influence over a limited area (often more powerful at that spot than a diety would be actually).</p><p>Elemental dieties are basically known for being created directly by the Nameless, having direct control over a primordial force, and generally being considered more powerful than the other gods. Also for being aloof and less likely to meddel in the affairs of others. Many of the Dieties of Influence are directly related to the Elemental Gods.</p><p>Dieties of Influence are mostly known for associating with something either physically located in the world (Sky, Ocean, Underground), or an emotion (love, hate, fear) or an ideal (Honor, Justice, Betrayal,War). While considered to be less powerful or at least less important than the elemental dieties when it comes to matters directly relating to their sphere of influence they seem to be unbeatable. Generally speaking each of the gods of influence generally wants to promote their sphere of influence to expand (i.e. more Wars for Rallos, more hatred for Innoruuk, more fear for Cazic). We're not actually sure if that just pleases each diety or makes them more powerful. Power seems to be very fluid between dieties (i.e. depends on writer's whim more than some hard fast number. See Shard of Love for a good example on how weak a diety can be.)</p></blockquote><p>Tunare and Brell Serilis basically cover the finer aspects of geography, but it still pretty much falls under the Rathe's domain.</p></blockquote><p>Brell more than Tunare, really, being master of the Underfoot and such. Brell is supposed to be Veeshan's polar opposite, hence why they're enemies.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Brell more than Tunare, really, being master of the Underfoot and such. Brell is supposed to be Veeshan's polar opposite, hence why they're enemies.</p></blockquote><p>That is so, according to the lore, however its never actually been touched upon. There is literally no back-and-forth between her and Brell. So whether that holds true or was simply added in as unused flavor is anyone's guess.</p>

[kelvmor]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Brell more than Tunare, really, being master of the Underfoot and such. Brell is supposed to be Veeshan's polar opposite, hence why they're enemies.</p></blockquote><p>That is so, according to the lore, however its never actually been touched upon. There is literally no back-and-forth between her and Brell. So whether that holds true or was simply added in as unused flavor is anyone's guess.</p></blockquote><p>It was the reason why Brell made the pacts with the gods to keep an eye on the dragons. I remember reading it in the Planes of Power manual; Brell is Veeshan's enemy, though it never says that Brell actually holds any emnity towards her. I think Veeshan dislikes Brell the same reason the dragons dislike other races; they're "ruining" Veeshan's gift.</p><p>Of course, Brell showed open defiance to Veeshan when he made the kobolds and bugbears and such, and then the pacts with the gods when he made the dwarves and gnomes.</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ulgrim@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Brell more than Tunare, really, being master of the Underfoot and such. Brell is supposed to be Veeshan's polar opposite, hence why they're enemies.</p></blockquote><p>That is so, according to the lore, however its never actually been touched upon. There is literally no back-and-forth between her and Brell. So whether that holds true or was simply added in as unused flavor is anyone's guess.</p></blockquote><p>It was the reason why Brell made the pacts with the gods to keep an eye on the dragons. I remember reading it in the Planes of Power manual; Brell is Veeshan's enemy, though it never says that Brell actually holds any emnity towards her. I think Veeshan dislikes Brell the same reason the dragons dislike other races; they're "ruining" Veeshan's gift.</p><p>Of course, Brell showed open defiance to Veeshan when he made the kobolds and bugbears and such, and then the pacts with the gods when he made the dwarves and gnomes.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, it definitely is something that could have been interesting, though the way it played out was not so much. I mean from what we have been given, the "keep an eye on dragons" thing seemed more like an excuse than an actual concern, as the dragons have yet to really do anything worse than what the other races have done aside from allowing Kerafyrm to be born.</p><p>It's just always been strange to me that there was never anything developed between them. I mean its one thing to call someone your enemy, and another to completely ignore that person calling themself your enemy as though they were meaningless. It just strikes me as a bit onesided.</p>

[Cusashorn]

I always saw the Brell-Veeshan thing simply a yin and yang situation. Brell is "Opposed" to Veeshan because his domain is literally opposite of Veeshan's. Ground and Sky are polar opposites, so he has to oppose her... I never took it as meaning that he is fundamentally against everything she is, or he hates her or anything. He's just opposite of her.

[Garnaf]

<p>Veeshan dislikes Brell because he contests the claim that the Dragons were the first race on Norrath.  Afterall, how can you know the age of a race that you've never encountered?  It may well be that he placed a creation in the underground stone of Norrath YEARS before Veeshan marked Norrath, but there's no way to prove that he did or did not do this.</p>

[Mixxit]

<p>I don't think Veeshan cares to be honest - she droped by took the planet and left for good</p><p>Then the other gods of emotion came with their rabble rabble!</p><p>The elemental gods formed the planet though so I'm not sure why she thinks she can claim it but to be fair Fenin, The Rathe and Xegony also don't seme to care much about norrath but Tarew seems to have a particular interest after depositing his marr children here and getting involved in the DoV </p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Mixxit@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> and getting involved in the DoV </p></blockquote><p>Wait, what?</p>

[Iskandar]

<p>I think Mix is referring to Prexus, who sorta gets us up to speed information-wise during the Swords questline. If he really meant Tarew, then... I'm drawing a blank too <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Mixxit]

<p>i did! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>You'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that a dragon is more powerful than the very gods who maintain the laws of physics and allow physical matter and structure to exist.</p></blockquote><p>The elemental gods manage and maintain.  Veeshan creates. </p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym9hIEbnijw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym9hIEbnijw</a></p><p>The first 20 seconds is why she's more powerful.</p>

[Mixxit]

<p>Sounds good to me! The text also says something like the nameless created the stars and moons and planets and then the gods of power were created to maintain it</p>

[Mixxit]

<p><span style="color: #3a3a3a; font-family: Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; line-height: 23px;"><p style="font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-top: 1em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; padding: 0px; border: 0px initial initial;">Forces touched each other and the emptiness filled with swirling energies, light and heat touched emptiness. Energies collided and crashed, were born and died and became new and different... none of those having been seen ever before started to form planets that differed in size and structure. Also created were stars to watch over this new creation.</p><p style="font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-top: 1em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; padding: 0px; border: 0px initial initial;">But the whole chaos needed order, shaping and fine touch. And so the Nameless created The Gods of Power. To do so, The Nameless reached into the chaos, drew forth four equal portions of the stuff of existence and shaped it into the Gods that would divide the universe into form.</p><p style="font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-top: 1em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; padding: 0px; border: 0px initial initial;"><a href="http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/news_article.vm?id=50403&month=042007">http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/n...03&month=042007</a></p><p style="font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-top: 1em; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; padding: 0px; border: 0px initial initial;"> </p></span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>You'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that a dragon is more powerful than the very gods who maintain the laws of physics and allow physical matter and structure to exist.</p></blockquote><p>The elemental gods manage and maintain.  Veeshan creates. </p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym9hIEbnijw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym9hIEbnijw</a></p><p>The first 20 seconds is why she's more powerful.</p></blockquote><p>Yes yes I know all about the original opening video. EVERY god has the power to Create. Why do you think they placed races on Norrath? They created them. Solusek Ro created the Serpentspine Mountains. Just because Veeshan terraformed a planet doesn't mean anything special.</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meaghan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gninja wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Veeshan would lie between the elemental gods and the Nameless.</p></blockquote><p>You'll have to excuse me if I find it hard to believe that a dragon is more powerful than the very gods who maintain the laws of physics and allow physical matter and structure to exist.</p></blockquote><p>The elemental gods manage and maintain.  Veeshan creates. </p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym9hIEbnijw">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym9hIEbnijw</a></p><p>The first 20 seconds is why she's more powerful.</p></blockquote><p>Yes yes I know all about the original opening video. EVERY god has the power to Create. Why do you think they placed races on Norrath? They created them. Solusek Ro created the Serpentspine Mountains. Just because Veeshan terraformed a planet doesn't mean anything special.</p></blockquote><p>Solusek raised a mountain range.  Veeshan created a living planet from lifeless rock with a touch. </p><p>Planet > Mountains</p><p>It probably would have taken all of the ther gods together to accomplish what Veeshan did alone, if they even could.  The other gods created their races, but Veeshan made it possible for them to do so.  The other gods are essentially modifying what has already been done.  They didn't create life, the created <em>from</em> life. They don't even have absolute power in their own planes. </p><p>In terms of the elemental gods and Veeshan, look at it this way.  Each elemental god has power of over one of the four elements.  In one way this makes them incredibly powerful.  At the same time this also makes them incredibly limited.  In creating a living planet Veeshan demonstrated a level of mastery over all four elements.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>except we know that it wasn't lifeless. the Behemoths were supposedly around  before the dragons were, which means when V 'clawed' norrath something was alive. not to mention she froze Velious. so who knows what life might have been thre before she froze it.</p><p>I would still like Gninja to tell us what seperates V so that she is more powerful then the Elemental Gods. Even the Plane she rules, Sky, isn't anything but an aspect of Air. that should make her less powerful the Xegony in and of itself.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>except we know that it wasn't lifeless. the Behemoths were supposedly around  before the dragons were, which means when V 'clawed' norrath something was alive. not to mention she froze Velious. so who knows what life might have been thre before she froze it.</p><p>I would still like Gninja to tell us what seperates V so that she is more powerful then the Elemental Gods. Even the Plane she rules, Sky, isn't anything but an aspect of Air. that should make her less powerful the Xegony in and of itself.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah. The Behemoths were on Norrath before she arrived.</p><p>Also, terraforming a planet doesn't "Give" the other gods the ability to create. Luclin took the moon for herself and gave it the ability to sustain life too.</p>

[Morghus]

<p>She is simply unquantified. We have seen and heard so little of her across every single game, that if they were to release a slew of new information about her, there would be almost nothing to contradict because there is so little about her to begin with.</p>

[LordPazuzu]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>except we know that it wasn't lifeless. the Behemoths were supposedly around  before the dragons were, which means when V 'clawed' norrath something was alive. not to mention she froze Velious. so who knows what life might have been thre before she froze it.</p><p>I would still like Gninja to tell us what seperates V so that she is more powerful then the Elemental Gods. Even the Plane she rules, Sky, isn't anything but an aspect of Air. that should make her less powerful the Xegony in and of itself.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah. The Behemoths were on Norrath before she arrived.</p><p>Also, terraforming a planet doesn't "Give" the other gods the ability to create. Luclin took the moon for herself and gave it the ability to sustain life too.</p></blockquote><p>She didn't give them the ability, she gave them the medium.  Sort of like an artist doesn't create the clay from which he creates art.  It also comes down to effort exerted.  According to the lore we possess, Veeshan sparked life- I'll quantify this with an 'as we know it'- with a mere flick of a claw. </p><p>How much effort do the standard pantheon of gods Norrathians need to exert to embark upon major creations?  How often does it require them to collaborate in order to succeed in a great endeavor?  The standard gods do not give power to the sphere of influence they control, they draw their power from it and seek out worshipers to expand said influence.  The gods of the standard pantheon can be deposed and replaced with new deities.  Both Veeshan and the elemental gods need nor require worshipers.  The elemental gods, while immensly powerful, are limited in their scope and influence.  Even Quarm was defeated in the end. Any limitations Veeshan may possess remain unquantifiable.</p><p>In terms of Veeshan freezing Velious, she did so to safeguard her newly deposited brood and even the ice of Velious, while damaged by the cataclysms which tore apart Norrath, by and large seem to have remained in place except for on the very edges of the continent despite all such claims that Velious 'melted'.  Veeshan's work is not so easily undone, a work accomplished through her breath alone.  Velious is, and remains, largely frozen- not because of geographical location, it shares the same latitude with Kunark, but through the actions of a being more powerful than the gods. Veeshan demonstrates a mastery over the elements no other god has been seen to match.</p>

[Rainmare]

<p>actually, the lore we have says velious DID melt. that's what caused the flooding that created the islands along with the rending. however we also know that it refroze. adn it says nothing about her 'sparking life' she raked the planet with her claws, deposited her brood, and frozen the continent as a manner of 'nesting'.  Right after that came the various pacts to watch her children. like it was pointed out, there was life here before then, so norrath had to be able to sustain it.</p><p>the various other gods created thier own races to place on norrath, who immediately went to forging empires and socities. (the Elddar elves, the rallosian empire, the dwarves, ect.)</p><p>We've not seen V do ANYTHING the other gods didn't do. she created/deposited dragons. most every other gods also has created/placed a race. Sol Ro terraformed Antonica by raising the serpentspine mountains, Tunare created the Wakening Lands on the frozen Velious. So terraforming is not a 'Wurm Queen' specific thing, nor is 'sparking life' considering Tunare made a lush jungle ontop of an enviroment as hopsitible to life as antartica.</p><p>We've really not nothing but Gninja's word that V is stronger then any god, much less the elemental gods.</p>

[Morghus]

<p>Which again, is an issue with her being largely unquantifiable. We have nothing to use, that can really compare her to the other gods. We know that she generally changed Norrath, what we dont know is what level of power it required from her. It could have been a titanic effort on her part, or it could have been accomplished with the barest flick of her thoughts.</p><p>Her largely passive nature, inaction, lack of involvement, lack of demonstrated feats, and lack of direct conflict with the other gods effectively leaves her without a tangible celing as far as power goes.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p>I always thought of it as the Elemental Gods had a more specialized power, while Veeshan was more of a general power. I suppose a rough way of putting it would be that the Nameless is reality and existence itself... Veeshan is the physical universe of that reality... and the Elementals have each focused on one aspect of that universe. Each step down the deity totem pole gets more and more focused on a smaller and more specialized aspect of influence.</p>

[troodon311]

<p>I'm with Cusa on this and don't see how Veeshan can be more powerful (if we were to somehow quantify that) than the elemental gods.  The way the pantheon is set up, each elemental god has a similar god just beneath them, and beneath them are the various allied gods of power and demigods.</p><p>As follows:</p><p>Fennin Ro: God of Fire|Solusek Ro: God of Flame</p><p>Xegony: Goddess of Air|Veeshan: Goddess of Sky</p><p>Rathe Coucil: Gods of Earth|Brell Serilis: God of Underfoot (Underground)</p><p>Triumvirate of Water: Gods of Water|Prexus: God of the Sea</p><p>So you see how they're related.  Flame is like fire, sky is like air, etc.  I seem to remember a more exhaustive tree like this being posted officially, but that may be a fake memory of some kind.  Under this structure Veeshan is beneath Xegony, not necessarily as a servant, but in the sense that her realm (Plane of Sky) and the authority related to it is dependent on the element of Air, the same way Solusek Ro's realm and authority (Sun and Flame) is dependent on the element of his father, Fire.</p>