AOE Autoattack needs its cap Removed.

[Talathion]

<p>AOE Autoattack Needs to have Multi-Attack and also needs to work on the target even if they're is nothing else around.</p><p>100% is easily reached and its gimping some classes.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>It is not gimping anyone, if you can get 100% then grats you can now focus on other blue stats/adorns.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It is not gimping anyone, if you can get 100% then grats you can now focus on other blue stats/adorns.</p></blockquote><p>As a berserker I can get +285% from my "CLASS buffs" and AA, this should help me as much as it helps all the other classes and it doesn't because they're is a cap, remove the cap from 100% and let AOE autoattack Multiattack.</p><p>Mythical - <span style="color: #ff0000;">100%</span> Aoe Autoattack. (up forever)</p><p>Open Wounds - <span style="color: #ffcc00;">100%</span> Aoe Autoattack, temp buff, does nothing because i'm capped.</p><p>AA - <span style="color: #ffcc00;">40%</span> Aoe autoattack, does nothing because capped, benefits guardians/shadowknights/paladins alot.</p><p>AOE Autoattack Adorn from PQ, <span style="color: #ffcc00;">40%</span>, does nothing for my class, helps every other class out except berserker because i'm capped.</p><p>Adornments: <span style="color: #ffcc00;">5-7%</span> (3 for suit) Aoe Autoattack, do nothing because capped.</p><p>Illusionary Arm: <span style="color: #ffcc00;">20%</span> Extra AOE Autoattack, does nothing for berserker.</p><p>This is not fair, these AA's and Skills should WORK just as much AND Well as they do on other classes!</p><p>Its stupid that every other class can benefit from these buffs and adornments except ours.</p>

[Chakos]

<p>You're an idiot -- 100% aoe auto is 100% aoe auto; what would raising the cap do?</p><p>Open Wounds: should be changed imo. At the very least, add an additional benefit beyond the haste that it already gives in addition to the 100% aoe auto.</p><p>AA: because ours is already capped due to mythical, we are free to spend those aa in better areas; much better than having to spend the aa to get it imo</p><p>AoE auto adorn from PQ: thanks to ours being capped, we are able to save the slot to another adorn</p><p>Other items: AE auto adorns are not needed, because capped.</p><p>Illusionary Arm: can be used on another player, since we dont need it.</p><p>There is nothing unfair about it, the AAs and Skills DO work just as much AND well as they do on other classes, if you don't happen to have your myth -- otherwise, we gain more by not having to use those AA points and adorns and such needlessly, allowing us more freedoms.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>2 Words, AOE Multi-Attack.</p><p>After you get 100% AOE Autoattack, every percent after is AOE Multi-Attack.</p><p>AOE Autoattack hits Twice if you get 200% AOE autoattack, after 300% it hits thrice!</p>

[Ol]

<p>Instead of asking for ridiculous changes to mechanics that work just fine, only to benefit 1 class, just ask for changes to the spells that create the problem.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Osik@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Instead of asking for ridiculous changes to mechanics that work just fine, only to benefit 1 class, just ask for changes to the spells that create the problem.</p></blockquote><p>Next expansion everyone will have over 100% AE autoattack probably, this is killing 2 birds with 1 stone, and this is NOT rediculous, its exactly the same thing as Multi-Attack</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Osik@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Instead of asking for ridiculous changes to mechanics that work just fine, only to benefit 1 class, just ask for changes to the spells that create the problem.</p></blockquote><p>Next expansion everyone will have over 100% AE autoattack probably, this is killing 2 birds with 1 stone, and this is NOT rediculous,<strong> its exactly the same thing as Multi-Attack</strong></p></blockquote><p>Not quite and the change to DA was ridiculous.</p>

[Brildean]

<p>Ya then spell cast speed should be changed so you get a mutli spell hit for being over the cap..</p><p>Dps mod should be changed so that when scouts are at 500dps mod its doing somethin for them</p><p>lets get real tour and stop posting this crap on the forums.. its need to be constructive not somethin to make it feel like your special cause you arn't that great.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>DPS mod and Attack speed are completely different types of Mechanics then Multi Attack and AE Auto-Attack.</p><p>Double Attack was capped at 100%.</p><p>AE Autoattack was capped at 100%.</p><p>Multi Attack is no longer capped.</p><p>AE Autoattack is still capped at 100%.</p><p>AE Autoattack needs changed to AOE Multi-Attack and uncapped.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Multi attack and ae auto are NOT the same thing at all.</p><p>If you get 200 Multi attack you will have a 100% chance to hit 1 target multiple times.</p><p>If you uncapped ae auto attack and had 200 you could hit up to 4+ targets multiple times with 100% chance</p><p>It would be much harder to balance and it would basically turn into a much better ability then multi attack ever could be.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Multi attack and ae auto are NOT the same thing at all.</p><p>If you get 200 Multi attack you will have a 100% chance to hit 1 target multiple times.</p><p>If you uncapped ae auto attack and had 200 you could hit up to 4+ targets multiple times with 100% chance</p><p>It would be much harder to balance and it would basically turn into a much better ability then multi attack ever could be.</p></blockquote><p>Not really, You hit multiple targets with your AOE autoattack by having more then 100%, which means that the abilitys ACTUALLY do what they are suppost to!</p><p>Open Wounds will help a zerker with his mythical as much as it would help a zerker without his mythical!</p><p>An entire AA line won't be worthless to Zerker's anymore!</p><p>PQ Adornments will actually be helpful to Zerker's!</p><p>Buffs will help Zerkers!</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>You still dont get it?</p><p>Ok lets say they uncap ae auto attack.</p><p>Ae auto attack can not only hit multiple targets but now it can multi attack multiple targets which would basically make it multi attack on crack because it would hit more targets and it would still multi attack.</p><p>Every player in eq2 would swap from multi attack adorns/gear to ae auto adorns/gear because it would be up to 4x better then multi attack for every point in it.</p><p>I can swap between colors if this is still confusing for you</p>

[Talathion]

<p>So?</p><p>That would help everyone.</p>

[Dasein]

<p>The way things are going, there will be very little reason to even bother with using combat arts. Auto-attack will be such a huge portion of DPS that combat arts will be an afterthought. I would severly reduce AOE auto-attack, probably no more than 10% chance should be possible ever - a buff should give maybe 1-2% at most, not 40%.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The way things are going, there will be very little reason to even bother with using combat arts. Auto-attack will be such a huge portion of DPS that combat arts will be an afterthought. I would severly reduce AOE auto-attack, probably no more than 10% chance should be possible ever - a buff should give maybe 1-2% at most, not 40%.</p></blockquote><p>Berserkers/Swashbucklers should be doing more AOE Damage then Shadowknights and Brawlers anyways, its kind of their class, they have ALWAYS been the highest in AOE Damage, just like Warlocks.</p><p>Its stupid, but right now our AOE autoattack misses 40% of the time anyways.</p><p>Your thinking this way to literally, take into account our 60-70% hittrates.</p><p>They are GOING to have to uncap this stat eventually, you know you've seen this comming, and AOE Autoattack ONLY works on the target your NOT attacking, it has nothing to do with your Solo or Raid DPS.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>If they uncap ae auto attack then they should just remove multi attack from eq2 and give everyone 1/4th the amount in ae auto attack since it will be 4x better on fights with 4+ mobs.</p><p>You really have not thought this through, like someone else said you would be better off getting abilities changed then trying to make Zerkers into rediculous dpsing beasts.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The way things are going, there will be very little reason to even bother with using combat arts. Auto-attack will be such a huge portion of DPS that combat arts will be an afterthought.</p></blockquote><p>Not at all.  Uncapped potency and CB made sure of that.  Even with over 500 MA in raids my auto attack still does about 35% of my parse, the same as previous expansions and actually a lot less than it used to do before base damage was brought into the game.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Please remove the cap and allow for AOE Multi-Attack <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please remove the cap and allow for AOE Multi-Attack <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I disagree and do not think it should be uncapped just like I did not want multi attack to be uncapped or for crit chance to be [Removed for Content].</p>

[NViDiaFReaK]

Its hilarious people spent over 7 hours arguing with the op! .. talathion you need to spend more time farming plat so you can buy our hard mode lewtz from us! Being on the forums doesn't help that goal!

[thegriss]

<p>Another Tour "Give my tank scout DPS" thread.  Dude please AE multi attack is just to much.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Uncapping AOE Autoattack won't improve my Personal DPS by that much, it would help me with AE Content more.</p>

[Brildean]

<p>Tuor maybe you should go play hello kitty happy island adventures, since the game mechanics on that are somethin that you could even understand.. eq2 is way to advanced for you, specialy when you think aoe auto attack is the same as multi attack, there not even close.</p><p>Since your  complaining about hate so much, maybe they can change zerker mythical to 50% hate mod, and you will loose your 100% ae auto attack and make your other a bilities useful and give everyone less of a headace over reading idiotic, unthought out mechanic changes that there isn't even a issue except for with you.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Nice Responce...</p>

[EQ2Magroo]

<p>Unfortunately the OP is well known for ill-thought out and frankly quite stupid requests and comments regarding gameplay and how he feels his particular class needs improving.</p><p>I suggest everyone does what everyone on AB and Flames already does...ignore the troll</p><p>Please devs, do not listen to this guy for 1 second, otherwise we'll end up with another "hey stick riposte on scout gear, it will really help" type of screw up.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Meh some of his ideas are not all that bad tbh, but he did not think this through or he weighs ae auto attack vs. multi attack as the same ability but if ae auto was uncapped it would actually be up to 4x better than multi attack on certain encounters.</p>

[Druid03]

<p>mixing two different stats is never a great idea.....at least leave it along the same lines and make it hit more targets if over 100%, which i still dont think is a good idea.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>so... 101% makes it have over 4 targets, and 200% does the same thing?</p><p>(Edited by SOE-MOD-07) </p><p>200% = AE Autoattack hits twice</p><p>300% = AE Autoattack hits thrice.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>I am all for uncapping aoe auto atk to multi atk additional targets over 100%, but alot of aoe auto  abilities would need to be nerfed to balance it as others have suggested. Just look at the below</p><p>I see it getting out of hand as some of the other posters suggested it especially can not multi atk the primary).</p><p>So with 100% aoe auto atk you get.1 target = 1 hit2 targets = 2 hits3 target = 3 hits4 target = 4 hitsWith 200% aoe auto you get1 target = 1 hit2 target = 3 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary)3 target = 5 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary, 2 on tietrary)4 target = 7 hits</p><p>With 300% aoe auto you get1 target = 1 hit2 target = 4 hits3 target = 7 hits4 target = 10 hits</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am all for uncapping aoe auto atk to multi atk additional targets over 100%, but alot of aoe auto  abilities would need to be nerfed to balance it as others have suggested. Just look at the below</p><p>I see it getting out of hand as some of the other posters suggested it especially can not multi atk the primary).</p><p>So with 100% aoe auto atk you get.1 target = 1 hit2 targets = 2 hits3 target = 3 hits4 target = 4 hitsWith 200% aoe auto you get1 target = 1 hit2 target = 3 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary)3 target = 5 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary, 2 on tietrary)4 target = 7 hits</p><p>With 300% aoe auto you get1 target = 1 hit2 target = 4 hits3 target = 7 hits4 target = 10 hits</p></blockquote><p>.... And what if your using a two handed weapon?</p><p>I see alot of problems with it already.</p><p>1% AE Autoattack Should be 1% chance to AE Autoattack, and Should Double that chance if you have 200%, and triple it if you have 300%.</p>

[erratic]

<p>I'm all for uncapping every stat possible but I don't think more than 100 aoe should mean multi attack.  These are two distinct stats in my opinion.</p><p>It can be kind of confusing, what happens if someone has 0 MA, and 150 AoE Auto? do they still multi attack?  If not then you have one stat (aoe auto) who's cap is based off another stat (MA).  I'd rather keep the two entirely seperate.</p><p>If anything I say every 100% past the first 100% would add one more target hit.</p><p>Example: 150 aoe auto = 100% of striking 4 targets, 50% chance to strike 5 instead.</p><p>Not incredibly powerful, but better than having those percentages wasted entirely.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>It.</p><p>Has.</p><p>nothing.</p><p>to.</p><p>do.</p><p>with.</p><p>multi-attack.</p><p>AOE Multi-Attack =</p><p>200% Means you would "AOE autoattack" (not multi-attack) twice instead of once, this ONLY effects 4 targets.</p><p><span>300% Means you would</span> "AOE autoattack" (not multi-attack) thrice<span> instead of once, this ONLY effects 4 targets.</span></p>

[Seiffil]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It.</p><p>Has.</p><p>nothing.</p><p>to.</p><p>do.</p><p>with.</p><p>multi-attack.</p><p>AOE Multi-Attack =</p><p>200% Means you would "AOE autoattack" (not multi-attack) twice instead of once, this ONLY effects 4 targets.</p><p><span>300% Means you would</span> "AOE autoattack" (not multi-attack) thrice<span> instead of once, this ONLY effects 4 targets.</span></p></blockquote><p>It has everything to do with Multi Attack. </p><p>You're asking for AOE auto attack to multi attack.  at 200% using your example, your AE auto triggers, you hit 4 targets twice, instead of just 4 targets once, and then your character actually gets to have their multi attack trigger. It's just too much.  Leave AOE auto capped at 100%.  If they absolutely have to do something, maybe add 1 extra target every 100%, but otherwise it's fine as it is.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Seiffil@Permafrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It.</p><p>Has.</p><p>nothing.</p><p>to.</p><p>do.</p><p>with.</p><p>multi-attack.</p><p>AOE Multi-Attack =</p><p>200% Means you would "AOE autoattack" (not multi-attack) twice instead of once, this ONLY effects 4 targets.</p><p><span>300% Means you would</span> "AOE autoattack" (not multi-attack) thrice<span> instead of once, this ONLY effects 4 targets.</span></p></blockquote><p>It has everything to do with Multi Attack. </p><p>You're asking for AOE auto attack to multi attack.  at 200% using your example, your AE auto triggers, you hit 4 targets twice, instead of just 4 targets once, and then your character actually gets to have their multi attack trigger. It's just too much.  Leave AOE auto capped at 100%.  If they absolutely have to do something, maybe add 1 extra target every 100%, but otherwise it's fine as it is.</p></blockquote><p>LOL 1 more target for an extra 100%? (wow, so 200% is like 110%?)</p><p>Thats too little, an extra AOE autoattack isn't that much.</p><p>It has nothing to do with Multi-Attack, all it does is makes zerker's Open Wounds useful again.</p><p>How about we make your moves useless too?</p><p>How about we make 100% AOE Autoattack 1 extra target and 200% 4 Targets? LOL</p><p>It doesn't make sense, IMO.</p><p>How about we make multiattack 200% but the second multiattack only does 25% of the damage?  that would be cool right?</p>

[Soul_Dreamer]

<p>AOE auto is also capped on the number of mobs it can hit, I'm pretty sure it's 4. Simple uncapping would be for every 50% after 100% is reached, add 1 to the cap.</p><p>1-100% = max of 4 mobs.150% = max of 5 mobs.200% = max of 6 mobs.</p><p>I have no idea what you're on about with turning it into multi attack or whatever, the 2 are completely different.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Soul_Dreamer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>AOE auto is also capped on the number of mobs it can hit, I'm pretty sure it's 4. Simple uncapping would be for every 50% after 100% is reached, add 1 to the cap.</p><p>1-100% = max of 4 mobs.150% = max of 5 mobs.200% = max of 6 mobs.</p><p>I have no idea what you're on about with turning it into multi attack or whatever, the 2 are completely different.</p></blockquote><p>That math is stupid.</p><p>every 25% should be a an extra target then.</p><p>100% = 4 Targets.</p><p>200% = 8 Targets</p><p>300% = 12 Targets.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(which is kind of stupid since they're are not many encounters with that many targets past level 80, plus you would need 25% for an extra target, which makes all the other percents worthless, and because they're are almost no encounters with 4+ targets thats also worthless...)</span></p><p>OR</p><p>100% = 100% chance to AOE autoattack.</p><p>Each percent afterwords raises the autoattacks damage by 1%.</p><p>200% = Normal Autoattacks + 100% more damage.</p><p>300% = Normal Autoattacks + 200% more damage.</p><p>OR </p><p>AOE Auto-Attack Multi-Attack.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am all for uncapping aoe auto atk to multi atk additional targets over 100%, but alot of aoe auto  abilities would need to be nerfed to balance it as others have suggested. Just look at the below</p><p>I see it getting out of hand as some of the other posters suggested it especially can not multi atk the primary).</p><p>So with 100% aoe auto atk you get.1 target = 1 hit2 targets = 2 hits3 target = 3 hits4 target = 4 hitsWith 200% aoe auto you get1 target = 1 hit2 target = 3 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary)3 target = 5 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary, 2 on tietrary)4 target = 7 hits</p><p>With 300% aoe auto you get1 target = 1 hit2 target = 4 hits3 target = 7 hits4 target = 10 hits</p></blockquote><p>.... And what if your using a two handed weapon?</p><p>I see alot of problems with it already.</p><p>1% AE Autoattack Should be 1% chance to AE Autoattack, and Should Double that chance if you have 200%, and triple it if you have 300%.</p></blockquote><p>You are obviously to slow to get what i was saying.</p><p>2 hander has no effect on the outcome. Just using 300% which bezerkers could easily get if uncapped. 300% aoe auto = up to 10 auto atk hits300% multiatk = 4 auto atk hits</p><p>Your current suggestion is grossly overpowered when facing 3-4 targets.</p><p>I am all for uncapping stats but if they uncapped multiatk they would need to butcher alot of AA, aoe auto atk abilities and buffs. In other words as a zerker you would notice little to no change in dps from uncapping aoe multi, because obtaining 300%+ aoe auto is grossly overpowered and they would need to reduce both your mythical and open wounds proc by at least half.</p>

[Mythal_EQ2]

<p>Don't want to burst your bubble but, if I were a dev and saw this thread I would lol and soon after you'd see the following in the update notes:</p><p>"Many encounters now have AE-autoattack avoidance. This works similar to critical avoidance, so you will need AE autoattack values of >100% to compensate".</p><p>Much simpler than worrying about balancing abilities for AE-multiattacks, and would make you feel like those 300% AE Attack values were actually useful now, no?</p><p>/lol</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Daervon@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Don't want to burst your bubble but, if I were a dev and saw this thread I would lol and soon after you'd see the following in the update notes:</p><p>"Many encounters now have AE-autoattack avoidance. This works similar to critical avoidance, so you will need AE autoattack values of >100% to compensate".</p><p>Much simpler than worrying about balancing abilities for AE-multiattacks, and would make you feel like those 300% AE Attack values were actually useful now, no?</p><p>/lol</p></blockquote><p>They already HAVE aoe autoattack avoidance, because you can avoid/dodge/reposte/parry AOE autoattacks.</p><p>Same with Multi-attacks.</p><p>/lol</p><p>Heres an idea, how about Spell Avoidance? Mobs have a 50% chance to avoid spells (like Autoattacks)!  Much simpler then worrying about balancing abilitys for spells, no?</p><p>/lol</p>

[Boli32]

<p>Change Open Wounds to AoE damage proc and +100% Multi Attack</p><p>Problem solved.</p>

[Bremer]

<p><cite>Boli32 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Change Open Wounds to AoE damage proc and +100% Multi Attack</p><p>Problem solved.</p></blockquote><p>That would be a good solution. But it still wouldn't fix cap problems with things like generic Fighter gear having AE autoattack and Warrior AA lines that require taking AE autoattack.</p>

[Boli32]

<p>It just means beserkers never have to take agility line; dragoons reflexes isn't that good and at the most its 4 wasted points to get it.</p><p>I could cite many examples of wasted AA points - druid needing to take animal charm/mez for tortoise shell (12 points wasted), crusaders needing to take a really bad damage proc (4 points wasted as its never cast) and many more. Beserkers never need to farm out those PQs for the 40% AoE auto proc rune - which is quite franky the only reason many people still do it on their main characters.</p><p>I know beserkers can currently get so much AoE auto its unreal and that - open wounds need to be changed, but in truth... just use those slots which other characters would be putting AoE adorns into and put multi-Attack adorns in instead.</p><p>Given that Multi-Attack procs of AoE auto, the above suggested change will in effect give you 4 extra AoE attacks. in effect giving you "200% AoE auto". There is no need to change the mechanic when the mechanic already exists to give yourself additional AoE attacks.</p><p>Likewise, don't get 20% AoE Auto attacks from the ilusionist, ask for Illusionary Arm instead.</p><p>Ad to be quite frank, only brawlers, swashbucklers, and beserkers ever come close to 100% AoE autoatatcks, and zerkers are the only ones who can maintain it indefinatly. Just spec MA and laugh at all the bards who cry themselves to sleep every night.</p>

[Bremer]

<p><cite>Boli32 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I could cite many examples of wasted AA points - druid needing to take animal charm/mez for tortoise shell (12 points wasted), crusaders needing to take a really bad damage proc (4 points wasted as its never cast) and many more.</p></blockquote><p>It's not about bad AA choices (Berserkers have tons of them). But how many AA choices are there, that are shared between multiple classes and have absolutely zero effect on one of the classes?</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Change Dragoon's Cyclone into a High Damage AE Proc on hit with 4 targets max. (instead of 12)</p><p>Change Open Wounds into a High AE Damage Proc on hit.</p>

[Weyre]

<p>AE autoattack greater than 100 should give you a chance to hit neutral NPCS, like 125 should give you a 25% chance to hit Nathan Ironforge because he needs hitting.  If you get about 200, then you should have a chance you hit groupmates, because sometimes they need hitting too.</p>

[urgthock]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Change Dragoon's Cyclone into a High Damage AE Proc on hit with 4 targets max. (instead of 12)</p><p>Change Open Wounds into a High AE Damage Proc on hit.</p></blockquote><p>The open wounds change sounds good but they can't change the dragoons cyclone. It's shared with guardians and they still need the AoE attack chance.</p><p>Not everyone gets 100% AoE attack <strong>permanently</strong>. Instead of crying that the awesome ability that Berserkers get isn't get enough, try to look at it in the right frame of mind. You don't have to spend AA points that others do to get more AoE chance. You don't have to use red slots that others do to get more AoE chance. Those are both huge benefits that Berserkers get. You should be happy.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Honestly the best i can see without this getting grossly overpowered.</p><p>Is capping AOE auto atk at 200%. When over 100%+ you get a chance to double atk the additional targets.Then go through the individual effects such as open wounds and make them a high damage aoe proc.This gives bezerkers some wiggle room in thier aoe auto cap space to take aoe auto atk AA if they want.</p><p>At most at would look like this. It still might be overpowered and SOE may need to nerf multi atks from procing additional aoe auto atks in other words only your initial auto atk could proc an aoe auto. So with 100% aoe auto atk you get.1 target = 1 hit2 targets = 2 hits3 target = 3 hits4 target = 4 hitsWith 200% aoe auto you get1 target = 1 hit2 target = 3 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary)3 target = 5 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary, 2 on tietrary)4 target = 7 hits (1 primary, 2 secondary, 2 tietrary, 2 fourth)</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So with 100% aoe auto atk you get.1 target = 1 hit2 targets = 2 hits3 target = 3 hits4 target = 4 hitsWith 200% aoe auto you get1 target = 1 hit2 target = 3 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary)3 target = 5 hits (1 on primary, 2 on secondary, 2 on tietrary)4 target = 7 hits (1 primary, 2 secondary, 2 tietrary, 2 fourth)</p></blockquote><p>Don't bother, he doesn't seem to understand and/or care about how OP this would make certain classes.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>urgthock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Change Dragoon's Cyclone into a High Damage AE Proc on hit with 4 targets max. (instead of 12)</p><p>Change Open Wounds into a High AE Damage Proc on hit.</p></blockquote><p>The open wounds change sounds good but they can't change the dragoons cyclone. It's shared with guardians and they still need the AoE attack chance.</p><p>Not everyone gets 100% AoE attack <strong>permanently</strong>. Instead of crying that the awesome ability that Berserkers get isn't get enough, try to look at it in the right frame of mind. You don't have to spend AA points that others do to get more AoE chance. You don't have to use red slots that others do to get more AoE chance. Those are both huge benefits that Berserkers get. You should be happy.</p></blockquote><p>Right! because I'd rather spend my *20* AA's getting <span style="color: #ff0000;">256 Mitigation </span>and <span style="color: #ff0000;">10 DPS Mod</span>, or an Awesome under 50% life I get a small Combat art damage buff, or the amazing 10% power reduction.</p><p>Don't tell me what to do when you don't play my class and have no idea what your talking about.</p><p>Have you even seen the Warrior Tree?  it was balanced around having 76% Multi-Attack in it while using a buckler, but I bet you didn't even know that.</p><p>The 20 second 100% parry buff is is the same tree as the 40% autoattack tree, its not moving.</p>

[Katanalla]

<p>I vote remove cap for swashies and give us our 50% back on hurricane! we were the original class to have 100% aoe auto attack.</p>

[thegriss]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Daervon@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Don't want to burst your bubble but, if I were a dev and saw this thread I would lol and soon after you'd see the following in the update notes:</p><p>"Many encounters now have AE-autoattack avoidance. This works similar to critical avoidance, so you will need AE autoattack values of >100% to compensate".</p><p>Much simpler than worrying about balancing abilities for AE-multiattacks, and would make you feel like those 300% AE Attack values were actually useful now, no?</p><p>/lol</p></blockquote><p>They already HAVE aoe autoattack avoidance, because you can avoid/dodge/reposte/parry AOE autoattacks.</p><p>Same with Multi-attacks.</p><p> Heres an idea, how about Spell Avoidance? Mobs have a 50% chance to avoid spells (like Autoattacks)!  Much simpler then worrying about balancing abilitys for spells, no?</p></blockquote><p>Even with high casting skills spells still get resisted all the time. I have less auto attacks avoided that I do spells resisted and im a priest.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>What has that have to do with classes being capped for AOE Auto-attack?</p>

[Twinbladed]

<p>What would the point of having this be? If you can already hit in aoe range 100% of the time. Why would you need to hit multiple times, or even more targets?</p>

[The_Cheeseman]

<p>Personally, I don't think enough classes can consistently reach 100% AoE auto-attack for this change to be necessary.. It's not like every class doesn't have to deal with some stat or another that they can easily reach the cap for. We monks have been self-buffed to 150+ attack speed for years, but you don't hear us demanding that haste be uncapped. Just consider AoE attack to be one stats you don't have to worry about chasing, and focus on something else, instead. As previous posters have demonstrated, turning AoE attack into some form of mega-multiattack would be grossly overpowered, while simply adding additional targets will be irrelevant in 95% of encounters. Berserkers may have some issues that need to be addressed, but I highly doubt that most would rank AoE DPS among them.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>The_Cheeseman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Personally, I don't think enough classes can consistently reach 100% AoE auto-attack for this change to be necessary.. It's not like every class doesn't have to deal with some stat or another that they can easily reach the cap for. We monks have been self-buffed to 150+ attack speed for years, but you don't hear us demanding that haste be uncapped. Just consider AoE attack to be one stats you don't have to worry about chasing, and focus on something else, instead. As previous posters have demonstrated, turning AoE attack into some form of mega-multiattack would be grossly overpowered, while simply adding additional targets will be irrelevant in 95% of encounters. Berserkers may have some issues that need to be addressed, but I highly doubt that most would rank AoE DPS among them.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">How about making every point of AOE Autoattack after 100% make AOE Autoattack do more Damage?</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">This way, 101% = 1% Extra AOE AutoAttack Potency, 0% Chance.</span></p></blockquote><p>Maybe with that in mind they should remake the Stamina line to what it used to be.</p><p>10% Reposte Chance - Now Block Chance... Which is worthless when im using a 2 hander 90% of the time.</p><p>75% Multi-Attack Chance - Which is now 24% chance</p><p>Since all the other trees are pretty much worthless since THATS how the entire tree was balanced for.</p><p>the BEST tree we have is the One with 40% AOE autoattack chance, but a berserker has to spend 10 points in dragoon's cyclone to get it, that means we would have 140% AOE autoattack, which does absolutely nothing.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p>You realize that many other classes have similar problems - "class defining" abilities that have become obsolete b/c of overall changes in mechanics and upgrades in gear. </p>

[NamaeZero]

<p>*cough* Monks-and-Haste *cough* <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Darkelfelin]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You realize that many other classes have similar problems - "class defining" abilities that have become obsolete b/c of overall changes in mechanics and upgrades in gear. </p></blockquote><p>No. That is totally out of reach for his mind. 4 pages of the same old tune but Tuor (/Talathion) will never give up. Amazing, isnt it?</p><p>If the topîc was "class defining abilities should maybe get some improvements", there could be something to agree with, but all we see here is "bla bla bla please change the whole game mechanics because I want my zerk to be ubber and not think about optimization in any other way than I do".</p><p><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Talathion]

<p>Change game mechanics because all other abilitys except haste/dps/AOE autoattack have a cap.</p><p>and AOE autoattack is the only percent based ability with a cap, sounds fair right?</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Change game mechanics because all other abilitys except haste/dps/AOE autoattack have a cap.</p><p>and AOE autoattack is the only percent based ability with a cap, sounds fair right?</p></blockquote><p>Spell multi is capped as well buddy, maybe you should learn a thing or two about classes, including your own before you open your mouth about your personally biased ideas of creating broken game balance to solve your personal issues.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>because people are running around with 300 spell double attack, right?</p>

[Morghus]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>because people are running around with 300 spell double attack, right?</p></blockquote><p>Warlocks can reach 200% with focused casting and time warp active, that is one class that can reach it, just like how your one class can reach 100 AOE auto. Dont backpedal your original statement.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>because people are running around with 300 spell double attack, right?</p></blockquote><p>Warlocks can reach 200% with focused casting and time warp active, that is one class that can reach it, just like how your one class can reach 100 AOE auto. Dont backpedal your original statement.</p></blockquote><p>for 7 seconds.. yes, I can reach 200 AOE autoattack forever, and 300 Aoe autoattack for 35% of the time.</p><p>With time warp, even more probably, but its stupid to give me that spell.</p>

[Boli32]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>because people are running around with 300 spell double attack, right?</p></blockquote><p>Warlocks can reach 200% with focused casting and time warp active, that is one class that can reach it, just like how your one class can reach 100 AOE auto. Dont backpedal your original statement.</p></blockquote><p>for 7 seconds.. yes, I can reach 200 AOE autoattack forever, and 300 Aoe autoattack for 35% of the time.</p><p>With time warp, even more probably, but its stupid to give me that spell.</p></blockquote><p>And its stupid for you to even get the Illusionary Arm, full points in dragoons cycle (if you wish the endline) and to adorn all your gear with AoE autoattack. Open wounds needs to be changed; but do not try to create an issue out of something that doesn't really exist.  "boo ho I don't have to farm countless PQs for the 40% proc or put 14 AA into an AA line; or adorn all my gear with AoE auto adorns.</p><p>If Open Wounds was changed from AoE Autoatatck to Multi-Attack instead and you had 300 MA in raids this will increase it to 400 and you'll attack each surround mob 5 times instead of 4 times, in effect you just got an extra hit on each mob.</p><p>In fact with 400MA and 100 AoE Auto you have in effect 500 AoE Auto as you are hitting all surrounding mobs 5 times each.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p>Cast speed is capped - and easily surpassed now as well. Chanters were the only mages to easily reach cap through AA - now anyone can w/ gear. Should we uncap cast speed? Sorry buddy - this whole thread is not based on anything other than a Beserker wanting a boost. Your class is fine - and in fact in PVP - it far surpasses any other tank...</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cast speed is capped - and easily surpassed now as well. Chanters were the only mages to easily reach cap through AA - now anyone can w/ gear. Should we uncap cast speed? Sorry buddy - this whole thread is not based on anything other than a Beserker wanting a boost. Your class is fine - and in fact in PVP - it far surpasses any other tank...</p></blockquote><p>Lol.</p><p>Brawlers are <span style="color: #ff0000;">way</span> better in PVP, a brawler can kill 4 berserkers with with his hands tied behind his back.</p>

[Griffildur]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cast speed is capped - and easily surpassed now as well. Chanters were the only mages to easily reach cap through AA - now anyone can w/ gear. Should we uncap cast speed? Sorry buddy - this whole thread is not based on anything other than a Beserker wanting a boost. Your class is fine - and in fact in PVP - it far surpasses any other tank...</p></blockquote><p>Lol.</p><p>Brawlers are <span style="color: #ff0000;">way</span> better in PVP, a brawler can kill 4 berserkers with with his hands tied behind his back.</p></blockquote><p>don't want to burst your bubble or anything like that, but if the brawlers have their hands tied behind their back, doesn't that mean they can't kill anything anyway ? I am pretty sure they are not Bruce Lee so there's no lethal kicking involved ...</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Mrrshan@Runnyeye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Cast speed is capped - and easily surpassed now as well. Chanters were the only mages to easily reach cap through AA - now anyone can w/ gear. Should we uncap cast speed? Sorry buddy - this whole thread is not based on anything other than a Beserker wanting a boost. Your class is fine - and in fact in PVP - it far surpasses any other tank...</p></blockquote><p>Lol.</p><p>Brawlers are <span style="color: #ff0000;">way</span> better in PVP, a brawler can kill 4 berserkers with with his hands tied behind his back.</p></blockquote><p>don't want to burst your bubble or anything like that, but if the brawlers have their hands tied behind their back, doesn't that mean they can't kill anything anyway ? I am pretty sure they are not Bruce Lee so there's no lethal kicking involved ...</p></blockquote><p>This is how fights with brawlers go, bub.</p><p>MISS</p><p>MISS</p><p>PARRY</p><p>PARRY</p><p>HIT ONCE.</p><p>PARRY</p><p>REPOSTE </p><p>STONESKIN</p><p>About a 1/10 chance of hitting.</p><p>whilst hes hitting me 6 times every 2 seconds with flurrys/triple attacks... I die, because if I don't hit him I cannot heal myself, so I lose.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p>My point still stands re: uncapping AOE attacks. And RE: PVP - maybe you haven't noticed it because you're the tank - but when the other side has a zerker - good luck trying to target anyone other than the zerker - you're the best fighter now hands down for taunt locking.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My point still stands re: uncapping AOE attacks. And RE: PVP - maybe you haven't noticed it because you're the tank - but when the other side has a zerker - good luck trying to target anyone other than the zerker - you're the best fighter now hands down for taunt locking.</p></blockquote><p>Too bad I can't go around being invincible like a brawler can and one shotting almost everyone, I can't kill a brawler and he can pretty much hand me my butt since nobody can hit them in melee.</p><p>Might as well add this to brawler:</p><p>IMMUNE TO MELEE ATTACKS IN PVP.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p>Brawlers are OP. What's new. But zerkers are highly desireable in PVP b/c of their taunt locking abilities. Group v. Group - I'd much rather have the other group's tank be a brawler vs. zerk. Maybe we couldn't kill him right away - but we could easily wipe out the rest of his group and then move onto him...</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Brawlers are OP. What's new. But zerkers are highly desireable in PVP b/c of their taunt locking abilities. Group v. Group - I'd much rather have the other group's tank be a brawler vs. zerk. Maybe we couldn't kill him right away - but we could easily wipe out the rest of his group and then move onto him...</p></blockquote><p>if hes good enough he can handle two groups of people firing on him while he can FD/Run away from the group.</p>

[Ryai]

This would break the game. Literally crash zones. Already seeing it in templex4 with too much sda. I can only imagine the lag that would happen in overlands as people trained mobs into giant clumps.

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Cyan@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>This would break the game. Literally crash zones. Already seeing it in templex4 with too much sda. I can only imagine the lag that would happen in overlands as people trained mobs into giant clumps.</blockquote><p>Why not make AOE Autoattack DO more damage after 101%?</p><p>That wouldn't be laggy nore OP, and every percent would matter after 100%.</p>

[Ratman12345]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe with that in mind they should remake the Stamina line to what it used to be.</p><p>10% Reposte Chance - Now Block Chance... <span style="color: #ff0000;">Which is worthless when im using a 2 hander 90% of the time</span>.</p><p>75% Multi-Attack Chance - Which is now 24% chance</p><p>Since all the other trees are pretty much worthless since THATS how the entire tree was balanced for.</p><p>the BEST tree we have is the One with 40% AOE autoattack chance, but a berserker has to spend 10 points in dragoon's cyclone to get it, that means we would have 140% AOE autoattack, which does absolutely nothing.</p></blockquote><p>Ok im sure im the the only one who saw that....</p><p>Ur problem lies with you running with a 2hander.....just go dual wield like a smart zerker and wham!! u get ur pretty little 200% cause ur off hand procs it now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> just slap ur 2hand in ur apperence slot like most people do.</p><p>And along wit the others, what ur asking for is to OP, cause like i just said, go dual wield....200% being u go 1 2 2 2 x2 (both weapons) thats 14 hits in 1 cycle....ur weapon delay probably in the 3.5-4 range so thats just OP, just be happy that AoE auto attack is a stat you never need to worry about and focus on tanking or single target dps.</p>

[Ratman12345]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>because people are running around with 300 spell double attack, right?</p></blockquote><p>Warlocks can reach 200% with focused casting and time warp active, that is one class that can reach it, just like how your one class can reach 100 AOE auto. Dont backpedal your original statement.</p></blockquote><p>what about the conj pet? with shared pet stats wouldnt the pet get 200% as well? TW goes up, conj and pet get 100% now buff hits pet now so 200% pet 100% conj right??</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Jokirr@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe with that in mind they should remake the Stamina line to what it used to be.</p><p>10% Reposte Chance - Now Block Chance... <span style="color: #ff0000;">Which is worthless when im using a 2 hander 90% of the time</span>.</p><p>75% Multi-Attack Chance - Which is now 24% chance</p><p>Since all the other trees are pretty much worthless since THATS how the entire tree was balanced for.</p><p>the BEST tree we have is the One with 40% AOE autoattack chance, but a berserker has to spend 10 points in dragoon's cyclone to get it, that means we would have 140% AOE autoattack, which does absolutely nothing.</p></blockquote><p>Ok im sure im the the only one who saw that....</p><p>Ur problem lies with you running with a 2hander.....just go dual wield like a smart zerker and wham!! u get ur pretty little 200% cause ur off hand procs it now <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> just slap ur 2hand in ur apperence slot like most people do.</p><p>And along wit the others, what ur asking for is to OP, cause like i just said, go dual wield....200% being u go 1 2 2 2 x2 (both weapons) thats 14 hits in 1 cycle....ur weapon delay probably in the 3.5-4 range so thats just OP, just be happy that AoE auto attack is a stat you never need to worry about and focus on tanking or single target dps.</p></blockquote><p>2 handers are awesome, don't diss em.</p><p>100% AE Autoattack procs with both weapons anyways.</p><p>101% should increase aoe autoattacks damage by 1%.</p>

[Icebane]

<p><cite>Jokirr@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe with that in mind they should remake the Stamina line to what it used to be.</p><p>10% Reposte Chance - Now Block Chance... <span style="color: #ff0000;">Which is worthless when im using a 2 hander 90% of the time</span>.</p><p>75% Multi-Attack Chance - Which is now 24% chance</p><p>Since all the other trees are pretty much worthless since THATS how the entire tree was balanced for.</p><p>the BEST tree we have is the One with 40% AOE autoattack chance, but a berserker has to spend 10 points in dragoon's cyclone to get it, that means we would have 140% AOE autoattack, which does absolutely nothing.</p></blockquote><p>Ok im sure im the the only one who saw that....</p><p>Ur problem lies with you running with a 2hander.....just go dual wield like a smart zerker and wham!! u get ur pretty little 200% cause ur off hand procs it now <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> just slap ur 2hand in ur apperence slot like most people do.</p><p>And along wit the others, what ur asking for is to OP, cause like i just said, go dual wield....200% being u go 1 2 2 2 x2 (both weapons) thats 14 hits in 1 cycle....ur weapon delay probably in the 3.5-4 range so thats just OP, just be happy that AoE auto attack is a stat you never need to worry about and focus on tanking or single target dps.</p></blockquote><p>No his problem comes in thinking that Agi is the best line we have...Granted using a 2hander all the time is dumb as anyone with half a brain will out dps you dw 90% of the time.</p><p>And where do you come up with this crap Tala? You honestly think that having extra points in AE auto attack should increase the damage of you're attacks. How about asking for something realistic for a change say every 25% over 100% adds an extra target so 125 = 5 mobs, 150 = 6 mobs hit with AE, maybe devs might consider that, doubt it but still be smart when you ask for changes.</p>

[Bremer]

<p><cite>Icebane@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You honestly think that having extra points in AE auto attack should increase the damage of you're attacks. How about asking for something realistic</p></blockquote><p>Even if it's not realistic (if the Fan Faire rumors about the stuff Xelgad said are true), for me it's common sense to ask, that when you spend an AA point on something that it does something, no matter what it does.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Xelgad is going to take a look at it, he said something about AE Autoattack Flurrys.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Xelgad is going to take a look at it, he said something about AE Autoattack Flurrys.</p></blockquote><p>He said overcapped haste will flurry. Nothing was mentioned about aoe auto atk.</p>