Relentless will appears to be calculating incorrectly. [Archive]

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tfetterman

06-15-2011, 08:07 AM

Relentless Will is supposed to add 7% chance to the base proc chance. What it appears to be doing is adding 7% of the existing chance. For instance, instead of what has a normal chance of procing 10% of the time being increased to 17%, it is increased to 10.7%. Currenlty when this procs, it is making a item that normally procs 2.2 times a minute proc 2.3 times per minute. If you are adding 7% additional proc chance it should be 2.6 times per minute.

aislynn00

06-15-2011, 10:28 AM

That is definitely "working as intended". The adornment is supposed to increases base proc chance by 7%, meaning you have 7% higher chance of getting a proc than without the effect. That is very different from adding 7% to the proc chance.Suppose you have 10% chance of proc'ing per auto-attack. If you increased that to 10.7%, it would be a 1 - 0.107/0.1 = 0.07 = 7% increase in proc frequency, as per the description.Conversely, if you boosted the 10% proc probability to 17%, it would constitute a 1 - 0.17/0.1 = 0.7 = 70% increase in proc frequency. Note that, if the base proc chance was lower than 10%, the percentage improvement would be even more dramatic.Clearly, no single adornment is supposed to have that kind of impact (consider that it applies to buffs like Unyielding Benediction and Percussion of Stone). Even if that weren't the case, though, I don't believe there has ever been an additive modifier to a general percentage stat in EQ2--and for good reason: additive modifiers skew the relative relationship between percentage values since lower values are affected to a greater extent than higher values.

aislynn00

06-15-2011, 10:32 AM

tfetterman

06-15-2011, 11:47 PM

<cite>Karnos@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>That is definitely "working as intended". The adornment is supposed to increases base proc chance by 7%, meaning you have 7% higher chance of getting a proc than without the effect. That is very different from adding 7% to the proc chance.Suppose you have 10% chance of proc'ing per auto-attack. If you increased that to 10.7%, it would be a 1 - 0.107/0.1 = 0.07 = 7% increase in proc frequency, as per the description.Conversely, if you boosted the 10% proc probability to 17%, it would constitute a 1 - 0.17/0.1 = 0.7 = 70% increase in proc frequency. Note that, if the base proc chance was lower than 10%, the percentage improvement would be even more dramatic.Clearly, no single adornment is supposed to have that kind of impact (consider that it applies to buffs like Unyielding Benediction and Percussion of Stone). Even if that weren't the case, though, I don't believe there has ever been an additive modifier to a general percentage stat in EQ2--and for good reason: additive modifiers skew the relative relationship between percentage values since lower values are affected to a greater extent than higher values.</blockquote>That makes this adorn worthless for the additinoal triggering portion.

tfetterman

06-15-2011, 11:54 PM

<cite>Karnos@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>tfetterman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Relentless Will is supposed to add 7% chance to the base proc chance. What it appears to be doing is adding 7% of the existing chance. For instance, instead of what has a normal chance of procing 10% of the time being increased to 17%, it is increased to 10.7%. Currenlty when this procs, it is making a item that normally procs 2.2 times a minute proc 2.3 times per minute. If you are adding 7% additional proc chance it should be 2.6 times per minute.</blockquote>By the by, your math is off. If you added 7% to a base proc chance of 10% that corresponded to 2.2 procs per minute, then the modified rate would be 3.74 procs per minute.The correct modified proc rate is, of course, 2.35 procs per minutes, perhaps rounded to 2.3 by EQ2, an improvement of 7%.</blockquote>I love how you justify your math with your math. Your posts really don't get to the real point I was making and then you want to correct my math when I was using statistical analysis. Something that was obviously beyond you. Go correct someone else.

Talathion

06-16-2011, 03:18 AM

Relentless Will is an Item, not a spell.

Ingerimm

10-23-2011, 08:10 AM

<cite>tfetterman wrote:</cite><blockquote>Relentless Will is supposed to add 7% chance to the base proc chance. What it appears to be doing is adding 7% of the existing chance. For instance, instead of what has a normal chance of procing 10% of the time being increased to 17%, it is increased to 10.7%. Currenlty when this procs, it is making a item that normally procs 2.2 times a minute proc 2.3 times per minute. If you are adding 7% additional proc chance it should be 2.6 times per minute.</blockquote>I would like this also complain that the war rune "Relentless Will" does not work correctly.Firstly, the people who have declared with the calculation it was quite calculated. Unfortunately, it should not work this way because otherwise the effect with a ten seconds proc, which is based on the rune, almost zero.Taking for example a spell such as "Blessed Weapon" by Paladin, which you can skill over the AA tree in the release probability. So you can then increase the release probability at 5%, which then also properly from 1.6 to 2.1 times per minute, this increases the release rate. So it should be so, that's no percentage increase in the multiplication, but a percentage addition. It's just a question of cause and thus the design calculation. Because you certainly did not want a useless cause and effect to such a rare rune I'm sure it this is a misinterpretation.Second and third:But sometimes depends on the rune has still neither a trigger text in the chat (or log file), yet it triggers the described reduction of 4% physical damage.Here, then, must be some bug fixes at least once a programmer should deal with the problem.best regardsIngerimm of Valor

Gaealiege

10-23-2011, 10:37 AM

Trigger chance increasers are one of the most powerful effects in the game, which SOE said they'd try to avoid making again. You're lucky to even have it as an option, let alone the additional bonus of 4% damage reduction.Also it was pretty funny to have Karnos point out where you're a mathematical handicap. 7% = 70%.

Ingerimm

10-23-2011, 11:37 AM

<cite>Gaealiege@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Trigger chance increasers are one of the most powerful effects in the game, which SOE said they'd try to avoid making again. You're lucky to even have it as an option, let alone the additional bonus of 4% damage reduction.Also it was pretty funny to have Karnos point out where you're a mathematical handicap. 7% = 70%. </blockquote>Yes I think you're right.Most important to me personally would be that the physical damage reduction works correctly.Of course you should have the chance to proc a significant increase in efficacy, but not overdone. An addition of 7% would be completely ok. A rule of the proc chance increase of 0.1 per minute for 10 seconds, but rather pointless. Since the proc works just it just 10 seconds. And therefore, if the procs are not triggered by the 10 seconds, shows no effect.Therefore, I also think it was the time thought so but was incorrectly programmed into it. So it unfortunately only a percentage increase of 7% chance to proc, not the base proc value is increased by 7%, as intended.That would mean one of the normal proc 2.1 times per minute, to approximately 2.8 times per minute, triggers, and that really is not too much. At the moment the effect is from 2.1 to 2.2 times per minute for 10 seconds. And, unfortunately, not all procs, for example, when proc "Dain's Leagsy" he has no effect, which again is not correct.

Greenmist

10-23-2011, 12:56 PM

<cite>Ingerimm@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>But sometimes depends on the rune has still neither a trigger text in the chat (or log file), yet it triggers the described reduction of 4% physical damage.</blockquote>Profane Madness is the same way -- When it procs, the only way you'll be able to tell is by looking in your Spell Effects window or to see your stats increase in the character window. It has no message to indicate it in the log file and it doesn't display in the Beneficial Effects window, either.I'll save my complaining about Relentless Will for when we're lucky enough to see it again <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />

SOE-MOD-04

10-23-2011, 02:05 PM

Necro posting is bad guys! Locked up.