PQ for crafters?

[Meirril]

<p>Just thought I'd throw this idea out. Basically its a raid idea for crafting that could be implimented like a public quest.</p><p>Some Gnomes are setting up to open a dimensional portal into the Plane of Innovation in an attempt to study some of the creatures from there. Being gnomes, the bigger the better. Even if the clockworks are in peices its worth studying them to see what changes have occured since contact was cut off 500 years ago.</p><p>So why do you need to make the stuff now instead of ahead of time? Due to the magics involved in creating the portal all the weapons need to incorperate materials summoned during the event to be effective. Also the best lure items are made from the same materials the event spawns.</p><p>Crafters can participate by either making recipes that will improve the summoning spell (making the portal larger, making items that will attract more clockworks, ect) or by making items that will defeat the creatures that are summoned through the portal. The number of items created for the spell determins the difficulty of the invasion force. The number of trap and weapon items determins if you succeed.</p><p> I'd suggest allowing 10 minuites total to boost the summoning spell before it goes off and then continuing to allow people to build defensive items through the event. Depending on the level of success you could have multiple waves of invaders with a payout for each wave successfully defeated with a huge named encounter at the end where crafters if they worked hard enough finish using up all the materials and now become the crew for several cannons to defeat the big mechano-dragon...before it swamps the clockworks sent to hold it in place.</p>

[Lasai]

<p>How about.. if you want an adventure class, roll one.</p><p>This psuedo adventure quest garbage is just that.  Garbage.  It is no substitute for an actual, viable crafting system.</p>

[EQ2Player]

<p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How about.. if you want an adventure class, roll one.</p><p>This psuedo adventure quest garbage is just that.  Garbage.  It is no substitute for an actual, viable crafting system.</p></blockquote><p>The OP may not agree, and considering there are many other crafters in the game it is likely that their subscription dollar means enough to Sony to continue to persue crafting as an adventure within EQ2.</p><p>Grinding away at the crafting tables gets old. While I enjoy adventure grinding, I don't much care for adventure quests. Perhaps some love them...that is cool. But I do enjoy the crafting quests as they're a nice change of pace from the "crafting grind."</p><p>But a more viable crafting system that you mentioned would be welcomed. Tightly integrating crafting into adventuring more would help make its role shine and round out the adventurer/crafter to work together whether it's a Raid idea, Battleground where crafters work alongside adventurers to build siege, repair etc, or another city siege world event.</p><p>Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC), one of the best examples of a PVP/E MMO, tightly integrated crafting into it's primary mainstay of PVP--castle siege.</p><p>Crafting is an excellent addition to an MMO if done in creative ways that titightly weave it into the adventure side too.</p><p>Anyway, I like the "psuedo adventure quest garbage".</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Crafters can participate by either making recipes that will improve the summoning spell (making the portal larger, making items that will attract more clockworks, ect) or by making items that will defeat the creatures that are summoned through the portal. The number of items created for the spell determins the difficulty of the invasion force. The number of trap and weapon items determins if you succeed.</p><p> I'd suggest allowing 10 minuites total to boost the summoning spell before it goes off and then continuing to allow people to build defensive items through the event. Depending on the level of success you could have multiple waves of invaders with a payout for each wave successfully defeated with a huge named encounter at the end where crafters if they worked hard enough finish using up all the materials and now become the crew for several cannons to defeat the big mechano-dragon...before it swamps the clockworks sent to hold it in place.</p></blockquote><p>So basically a lot of rush order-like crafting with a visible purpose? I like it. It would build on the idea put forth in the Grotto for the shawl, but hopefully without the horrible effect when missing an event <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Senya]

<p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How about.. if you want an adventure class, roll one.</p><p>This psuedo adventure quest garbage is just that.  Garbage.  It is no substitute for an actual, viable crafting system.</p></blockquote><p>The OP may not agree, and considering there are many other crafters in the game it is likely that their subscription dollar means enough to Sony to continue to persue crafting as an adventure within EQ2.</p><p>Grinding away at the crafting tables gets old. While I enjoy adventure grinding, I don't much care for adventure quests. Perhaps some love them...that is cool. But I do enjoy the crafting quests as they're a nice change of pace from the "crafting grind."</p><p>But a more viable crafting system that you mentioned would be welcomed. Tightly integrating crafting into adventuring more would help make its role shine and round out the adventurer/crafter to work together whether it's a Raid idea, Battleground where crafters work alongside adventurers to build siege, repair etc, or another city siege world event.</p><p>Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC), one of the best examples of a PVP/E MMO, tightly integrated crafting into it's primary mainstay of PVP--castle siege.</p><p>Crafting is an excellent addition to an MMO if done in creative ways that titightly weave it into the adventure side too.</p><p>Anyway, I like the "psuedo adventure quest garbage".</p></blockquote><p>Well put EQ2Player!  I myself LOVE the tradeskill quests.</p>

[Lasai]

<p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Crafters can participate by either making recipes that will improve the summoning spell (making the portal larger, making items that will attract more clockworks, ect) or by making items that will defeat the creatures that are summoned through the portal. The number of items created for the spell determins the difficulty of the invasion force. The number of trap and weapon items determins if you succeed.</p><p> I'd suggest allowing 10 minuites total to boost the summoning spell before it goes off and then continuing to allow people to build defensive items through the event. Depending on the level of success you could have multiple waves of invaders with a payout for each wave successfully defeated with a huge named encounter at the end where crafters if they worked hard enough finish using up all the materials and now become the crew for several cannons to defeat the big mechano-dragon...before it swamps the clockworks sent to hold it in place.</p></blockquote><p>So basically a lot of rush order-like crafting with a visible purpose? I like it. It would build on the idea put forth in the Grotto for the shawl, but hopefully without the horrible effect when missing an event <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Why no horrible effect?  You are wanting to raid, and kill named.  There should be a myriad of horrible effects, not the standard crafter quest fare of mashing Geo skills over and over.   Crafters should die, face repair bills, suffer all kinds of setbacks.  You want to pretend you are a combat char.. pay the bills, no cheesy no fail autocompletion as in 99% of these buttonmashing "quests".</p><p>Oh and it will be Geocraft.. oh yes.. no need to have Professions.. all crafters craft all things.  Forget about choosing Woodworker or Alchemist.  No need to think about raid composition oh no, everyone can be anything.</p><p>And go ahead.. make two tiers of crafters.  Go all the way.. lobby for raidwide crafter buffs.. get into arguments about um.. Tailors bringing no "utility" to the raid.   Start doing the ego exclusion of Characters who aren't "geared".</p><p>Make Raid Crafting an end in itself.  After all, there is no need and little reward to actually CRAFT items in this game, is there?  Give people more reason to rush to cap to "Instance Craft" and "Raid Craft".</p><p>All of this crap was shoved in as compensation for the failure of crafting in general.  Something for crafters to do other than fill a broker with piles of unsellable, un-needed crap.. which is most of the normal recipes in this game, save consumables.  Even MC has limited appeal and sales for many items.</p><p>Why not just take crafting of items out totally.  Writs could be all geo with temp recipes.  Players could continue to level by quest.  All combines could be geo.  Remove the nasty item selling thing altogether.  Make Crafting a mirror of adventuring, where money is obtained bywrits/ questing, faction grinding for items/tokens, the only sales would be of looted items. We are almost there anyway.</p><p>I do the craft quests.  I do Adventure quests.  The craft quests are already over-rewarded.  My adventure side needs to buy or quest gear, buy spells, carefully consider encounters, balance and worry about stats and mit/resists/crit, etc etc.  My crafter side can mash buttons in island rags. No investment.  Next tier.. mash buttons using basic skills.  No need to upgrade anything, and in fact having +Woodworking or any other + skill has no effect on geo.</p><p>This is all ez mode garbage.  I'm sure it is popular.  It does not take the place of actual player market crafting, and never will.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Crafters can participate by either making recipes that will improve the summoning spell (making the portal larger, making items that will attract more clockworks, ect) or by making items that will defeat the creatures that are summoned through the portal. The number of items created for the spell determins the difficulty of the invasion force. The number of trap and weapon items determins if you succeed.</p><p> I'd suggest allowing 10 minuites total to boost the summoning spell before it goes off and then continuing to allow people to build defensive items through the event. Depending on the level of success you could have multiple waves of invaders with a payout for each wave successfully defeated with a huge named encounter at the end where crafters if they worked hard enough finish using up all the materials and now become the crew for several cannons to defeat the big mechano-dragon...before it swamps the clockworks sent to hold it in place.</p></blockquote><p>So basically a lot of rush order-like crafting with a visible purpose? I like it. It would build on the idea put forth in the Grotto for the shawl, but hopefully without the horrible effect when missing an event <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Why no horrible effect?  You are wanting to raid, and kill named.  There should be a myriad of horrible effects, not the standard crafter quest fare of mashing Geo skills over and over.   Crafters should die, face repair bills, suffer all kinds of setbacks.  You want to pretend you are a combat char.. pay the bills, no cheesy no fail autocompletion as in 99% of these buttonmashing "quests".</p><p>Oh and it will be Geocraft.. oh yes.. no need to have Professions.. all crafters craft all things.  Forget about choosing Woodworker or Alchemist.  No need to think about raid composition oh no, everyone can be anything.</p><p>And go ahead.. make two tiers of crafters.  Go all the way.. lobby for raidwide crafter buffs.. get into arguments about um.. Tailors bringing no "utility" to the raid.   Start doing the ego exclusion of Characters who aren't "geared".</p><p>Make Raid Crafting an end in itself.  After all, there is no need and little reward to actually CRAFT items in this game, is there?  Give people more reason to rush to cap to "Instance Craft" and "Raid Craft".</p><p>All of this crap was shoved in as compensation for the failure of crafting in general.  Something for crafters to do other than fill a broker with piles of unsellable, un-needed crap.. which is most of the normal recipes in this game, save consumables.  Even MC has limited appeal and sales for many items.</p><p>Why not just take crafting of items out totally.  Writs could be all geo with temp recipes.  Players could continue to level by quest.  All combines could be geo.  Remove the nasty item selling thing altogether.  Make Crafting a mirror of adventuring, where money is obtained bywrits/ questing, faction grinding for items/tokens, the only sales would be of looted items. We are almost there anyway.</p></blockquote><p>You misunderstand, or rather I wasn't clear. Not THAT horrible effect. Guarenteed death for one miss is overkill for most things. For the Grotto sure okay. But on a wider PQ-like event, no.</p><p>It would be better to have misses like they were at launch where you could recover if you missed one, maybe recover if you missed 2 in a row, and definately die if you missed 3 with each miss depleating your progress or durability as well as health (making recovery difficult but not 100% impossible).</p><p>In a multi-player area, there is bound to be more lag, too, which will make countering perfectly only possible by bots under some conditions. Having the same effect as the grotto would be a guarenteed failure of the event every single time.</p>

[EQ2Player]

<p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Crafters can participate by either making recipes that will improve the summoning spell (making the portal larger, making items that will attract more clockworks, ect) or by making items that will defeat the creatures that are summoned through the portal. The number of items created for the spell determins the difficulty of the invasion force. The number of trap and weapon items determins if you succeed.</p><p> I'd suggest allowing 10 minuites total to boost the summoning spell before it goes off and then continuing to allow people to build defensive items through the event. Depending on the level of success you could have multiple waves of invaders with a payout for each wave successfully defeated with a huge named encounter at the end where crafters if they worked hard enough finish using up all the materials and now become the crew for several cannons to defeat the big mechano-dragon...before it swamps the clockworks sent to hold it in place.</p></blockquote><p>So basically a lot of rush order-like crafting with a visible purpose? I like it. It would build on the idea put forth in the Grotto for the shawl, but hopefully without the horrible effect when missing an event <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Why no horrible effect?  You are wanting to raid, and kill named.  There should be a myriad of horrible effects, not the standard crafter quest fare of mashing Geo skills over and over.   Crafters should die, face repair bills, suffer all kinds of setbacks.  You want to pretend you are a combat char.. pay the bills, no cheesy no fail autocompletion as in 99% of these buttonmashing "quests".</p><p>Oh and it will be Geocraft.. oh yes.. no need to have Professions.. all crafters craft all things.  Forget about choosing Woodworker or Alchemist.  No need to think about raid composition oh no, everyone can be anything.</p><p>And go ahead.. make two tiers of crafters.  Go all the way.. lobby for raidwide crafter buffs.. get into arguments about um.. Tailors bringing no "utility" to the raid.   Start doing the ego exclusion of Characters who aren't "geared".</p><p>Make Raid Crafting an end in itself.  After all, there is no need and little reward to actually CRAFT items in this game, is there?  Give people more reason to rush to cap to "Instance Craft" and "Raid Craft".</p><p>All of this crap was shoved in as compensation for the failure of crafting in general.  Something for crafters to do other than fill a broker with piles of unsellable, un-needed crap.. which is most of the normal recipes in this game, save consumables.  Even MC has limited appeal and sales for many items.</p><p>Why not just take crafting of items out totally.  Writs could be all geo with temp recipes.  Players could continue to level by quest.  All combines could be geo.  Remove the nasty item selling thing altogether.  Make Crafting a mirror of adventuring, where money is obtained bywrits/ questing, faction grinding for items/tokens, the only sales would be of looted items. We are almost there anyway.</p></blockquote><p>Hey guy,</p><p>Clearly you're dissatisfied with crafting and its role in the game. I am too really. Outfitters and weaponsmiths are a joke and the new drunder recipes made every profession a jeweler. Weird...lazy, or perhaps part of phasing Crafting out as it competes with the marketplace. Or rather, it appears to be a large obstacle in the longterm Marketplace roadmap.</p><p>But, ranting on at this guy's raid idea isn't going to get it fixed.</p>

[Lasai]

<p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>stuff</blockquote><p>Hey guy,</p><p>Clearly you're dissatisfied with crafting and its role in the game. I am too really. Outfitters and weaponsmiths are a joke and the new drunder recipes made every profession a jeweler. Weird...lazy, or perhaps part of phasing Crafting out as it competes with the marketplace. Or rather, it appears to be a large obstacle in the longterm Marketplace roadmap.</p><p>But, ranting on at this guy's raid idea isn't going to get it fixed.</p></blockquote><p>Not a guy, and, yes, I am ranting.  Not even really directed at the OP, but at the whole direction crafting has taken.</p><p>And nothing will get it fixed.  It is far easier to keep people busy going through the motions of crafting to quest than it is to fight the battle over crafted products ever being better than items that drop out of the bellys of random wildlife and NPCs.</p>

[GussJr]

<p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EQ2Player wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>stuff</blockquote><p>Hey guy,</p><p>Clearly you're dissatisfied with crafting and its role in the game. I am too really. Outfitters and weaponsmiths are a joke and the new drunder recipes made every profession a jeweler. Weird...lazy, or perhaps part of phasing Crafting out as it competes with the marketplace. Or rather, it appears to be a large obstacle in the longterm Marketplace roadmap.</p><p>But, ranting on at this guy's raid idea isn't going to get it fixed.</p></blockquote><p>Not a guy, and, yes, I am ranting.  Not even really directed at the OP, but at the whole direction crafting has taken.</p><p>And nothing will get it fixed.  It is far easier to keep people busy going through the motions of crafting to quest than it is to fight the battle over crafted products ever being better than items that drop out of the bellys of random wildlife and NPCs.</p></blockquote><p>Wow...take a breather there. Instead of trolling the OP's thread, why don't you start your own? The OP has a unique idea and as said before, some of us enjoy the crafting questlines...</p>

[Lasai]

<p>double post</p>

[Lasai]

<p>Well, against my better judgement.. this is how it was done in SWG.</p><p>My WS was an Imperial General.. by crafting.  And, she got shot at, A lot. </p><p>But.. her armor/weapon was as good as my 90 Commando's was.  Some investment should be made.</p><p>Also, this was a poor way to level crafting.. It was not a replacement for crafting, but a crafter way to participate in the GCW.</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Bestine_GCW_Invasion" target="_blank">http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Bestine_GCW_Invasion</a></p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How about.. if you want an adventure class, roll one.</p><p>This psuedo adventure quest garbage is just that.  Garbage.  It is no substitute for an actual, viable crafting system.</p></blockquote><p>The adventure game has 3 tiers of content. Solo, group and raid. The rewards for all three types of activities are different. Solo = treasured, group = legendary, and raid = fabled.</p><p>Crafting is stuck at Solo. There only group content for crafters are the quests that require items from all 9 crafting classes be created and even that is soloable if you happen to have 9 max level crafters. Even the group instances are fully soloable and most crafters that do them seem to perfer soloing them. The rewards for the group instances are slightly better than what a solo quest should give (though not for the time invested) but not up to par on what a true group effort should give.</p><p>What I've been pushing for the last 7 years is the creation of RAID content for crafting. Why you might ask? Because I want to create fabled items. The only way to get the producers of the game to acknowledge that crafters should be able to make fabled items is to legitimize a pathway for us to put in similar effort to what adventurers do to get the same rewards.</p><p>Even then we're going to be held back a bit. Either the fabled we create will have the same drop restrictions as raid gear OR it will eat some itemization points because it will be tradeable. Also there is the whole notion that you don't really need crafting gear, though in an extreme situation like this it would actually help you to get a full set of jewelery, a full crafting outfit, and do all the quests to get the gear that helps you craft faster because the entire event is on a timer.</p><p>I'm not asking for easy-mode. I'm asking for hard-mode actually. Why? Because I want to legitimize crafting to the point we get into the only market left in t9 that will actually sell.</p><p>Now if you can come up with a different idea of how to accomplish similar goals, start your own thread please. If you have comments about this idea, I'd love to hear them. If all your here to do is vent...stop trolling bro.</p>

[Lasai]

<p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How about.. if you want an adventure class, roll one.</p><p>This psuedo adventure quest garbage is just that.  Garbage.  It is no substitute for an actual, viable crafting system.</p></blockquote><p>The adventure game has 3 tiers of content. Solo, group and raid. The rewards for all three types of activities are different. Solo = treasured, group = legendary, and raid = fabled.</p><p>Crafting is stuck at Solo. There only group content for crafters are the quests that require items from all 9 crafting classes be created and even that is soloable if you happen to have 9 max level crafters. Even the group instances are fully soloable and most crafters that do them seem to perfer soloing them. The rewards for the group instances are slightly better than what a solo quest should give (though not for the time invested) but not up to par on what a true group effort should give.</p><p>What I've been pushing for the last 7 years is the creation of RAID content for crafting. Why you might ask? Because I want to create fabled items. The only way to get the producers of the game to acknowledge that crafters should be able to make fabled items is to legitimize a pathway for us to put in similar effort to what adventurers do to get the same rewards.</p><p>Even then we're going to be held back a bit. Either the fabled we create will have the same drop restrictions as raid gear OR it will eat some itemization points because it will be tradeable. Also there is the whole notion that you don't really need crafting gear, though in an extreme situation like this it would actually help you to get a full set of jewelery, a full crafting outfit, and do all the quests to get the gear that helps you craft faster because the entire event is on a timer.</p><p>I'm not asking for easy-mode. I'm asking for hard-mode actually. Why? Because I want to legitimize crafting to the point we get into the only market left in t9 that will actually sell.</p><p>Now if you can come up with a different idea of how to accomplish similar goals, start your own thread please. If you have comments about this idea, I'd love to hear them. If all your here to do is vent...stop trolling bro.</p></blockquote><p>Well BRO.  Without trolling, BRO, I can say with conviction that the concept of raid crafting on the order of Adventure raiding is ludicrous, BRO.</p><p>We have 6 counters.  How are you going to possibly script any events worthy of Fabled drops with 6 counters, BRO.</p><p>How are you possibly going to make it anything BUT group ez mode, BRO.  Crafting is not, by any stretch of the imagination implemented to have the scripting and difficulty of raid content, much less the gear and itemization requirements, and progression.</p><p>Crafters craft, BRO.  I posted a link to the SWG system of including crafters in a wider conflict environment.. but, at the end of it all... they just craft.  It is what crafters do.</p><p>Now, if you utilized a variation of the SWG system for crafters to collect thier own token items to create higher tier items to sell.. not just commission craft..that would be interesting.  In SWG the crafters collect the same GCW tokens as the fighters do.. and can buy recipe rewards, deconstructable weapons to rebuild, etc.   But to have some ersatz phony raid system with fabled drops.. no no and no.  There is just no possible way to create the risk v reward system to the depth that raid content is today.</p><p>What you suggest is not legitimizing Crafters.  It is "adventuring by other means"</p><p>And don't call me BRO, Pal.  And.. in the future, if you think I am trolling, REPORT ME.  It isn't your call.</p>

[Whilhelmina]

<p>It makes me think of the idea I had once of a raid where a crafter in full crafting set would be needed to craft bombs and launch them at a mob to kill him hehe</p><p>I love the idea of a big interractive event for crafters !</p>

[Aneova]

<p>Guess I've always felt as a crafter I was in combat to create items. Though over time the "Mobs" have been nerfed beyond reason (Yes I want to see folks die baking a batch of cookies again). I've always enjoyed the chance to make a Challenging item over grinding out the grey green combines for secondary tradeskills. It could be done in a way to make a tradeskill raid, we already have group instances for crafters, the items awarded of course would be tradeskill based, special item sets that effect the ease of tradeskilling. Reducing the chance of that batch of cookies killing you for example. Maybe a few special recipes connected to class of tradeskill special back packs for tailor's for example, add in unique NEW armor sets that are APPEARANCE ONLY and LOOK BETTER THEN $MED CA$H armor sets.</p>

[GussJr]

<p><cite>Aneova@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Guess I've always felt as a crafter I was in combat to create items. Though over time the "Mobs" have been nerfed beyond reason (Yes I want to see folks die baking a batch of cookies again). I've always enjoyed the chance to make a Challenging item over grinding out the grey green combines for secondary tradeskills. It could be done in a way to make a tradeskill raid, we already have group instances for crafters, the items awarded of course would be tradeskill based, special item sets that effect the ease of tradeskilling. Reducing the chance of that batch of cookies killing you for example. Maybe a few special recipes connected to class of tradeskill special back packs for tailor's for example, add in unique NEW armor sets that are APPEARANCE ONLY and LOOK BETTER THEN $MED CA$H armor sets.</p></blockquote><p>This would be neat!</p>

[OberonThunderfire]

<p>I know in Vanguard there was at least one encounter where the raid boss "froze" the MT and surrounding folks and you had to use a crafted item to 'thaw' within a short amount of time or you died immediately. The items were one use and lore so crafter would go with the raid and craft these items during the event. (I'm not doing it justice, but that is the basics of it)</p><p>Vanguard also had a cool system where the diplomacy sphere (I really miss that mini game) could infliuence certain levers that initiated city-wide adventuring or tradeskilling buffs that you got applied to you when you visited and stayed with you as you went out to exp or raid or craft. (kinda like consumables with the timers based on when you got the buff). The city-wide buffs decayed over time so diplomats would have to keep the levers over the threshold or would have to reapply them before raid start (more diplomats working on it got the buff up faster.)</p><p>I don't know if EQ2 buff system could handle that, but what if crafters got city writs that after a certain number had been completed would pop a buff specific to that city or faction for adventurers or crafters? ( examples like 5% boost to max hps for 45 mins, 2% power regen for 1 hr, +10 geocraft for 20 mins, 3% exp gain for 30 mins)</p><p>I do think the original protal unlocks (druid rings, griffon towers, wizard spires) were the original PQs and had something for both crafters and adventurers. Would love to see more of these landscape changing events. Things like shipyards (love to see player made and controlable ships with a reason to have them beyond status), new good/evil outposts in key areas, rebuilding forgotten cities, or as part of the Freeport/Qeynos revamp, possibly some reverse events, crafting catapults and seige equipement for tearing down outposts, reclaim kaladim. (I wasn't around when Freeport was damaged so I don't know how that unfolded) These would be PQ that would extend over longer periods of time and not necessarily in the current PQ format.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well BRO.  Without trolling, BRO, I can say with conviction that the concept of raid crafting on the order of Adventure raiding is ludicrous, BRO.</p><p>We have 6 counters.  How are you going to possibly script any events worthy of Fabled drops with 6 counters, BRO.</p><p>How are you possibly going to make it anything BUT group ez mode, BRO.  Crafting is not, by any stretch of the imagination implemented to have the scripting and difficulty of raid content, much less the gear and itemization requirements, and progression.</p><p>Crafters craft, BRO.  I posted a link to the SWG system of including crafters in a wider conflict environment.. but, at the end of it all... they just craft.  It is what crafters do.</p><p>Now, if you utilized a variation of the SWG system for crafters to collect thier own token items to create higher tier items to sell.. not just commission craft..that would be interesting.  In SWG the crafters collect the same GCW tokens as the fighters do.. and can buy recipe rewards, deconstructable weapons to rebuild, etc.   But to have some ersatz phony raid system with fabled drops.. no no and no.  There is just no possible way to create the risk v reward system to the depth that raid content is today.</p><p>What you suggest is not legitimizing Crafters.  It is "adventuring by other means"</p><p>And don't call me BRO, Pal.  And.. in the future, if you think I am trolling, REPORT ME.  It isn't your call.</p></blockquote><p>Bitter much?</p><p>Ok, lets explain. How do adventurers handle scripted events with their abilities? The answer is: they don't. Scripted events are intended to force players to take actions they don't normally take because their character abilities can't handle what is being thrown at them. Your forced to move, to click objects, to interact with the event. In 90 levels of soloing, just exactly when do you learn to joust AoEs? It doesn't matter that crafters only have 6 counters for events, the designers are just as aware of this as you are. Probably more so actually.</p><p>The single most important raid skill is the ability to follow instructions. Raids need to be coordinated. If they arn't, the can't progress beyond tank and spank encounters which won't get you very far. The greater the degree of coordination, the more success the raid has. In many raids, one person not listning to the raid leader can cause the encounter to fail. All of this can be implimented in a "crafting raid".</p><p> In a lot of respects the designers can actually do a better job of designing crafting raids simply because there are less differences between characters! No matter how much gear you have, or AA spent your capabilities can't be improved beyond a certain point. No more having to worry about over gearing the raid making the content trivial, or an under-geared raid. The margin for error based on gear is considerably smaller for crafters.</p><p>Its up to the designer to create an encounter that is challenging, entertaining, and possibly even fustrating. Right now the group crafting we have was intentionally made to be soloable. Try imagining all t9 adventure encounters being made to be soloable. About the only tool you have to work with is how much overall effort can be put in, and you can't introduce a fail condition because of the solo aspect. Design the encounters to require 20+ people and include fail conditions and real obsticals to overcome and you'll have a completely different beast to what we have now.</p><p>Don't get caught up thinking of crafting as just the little box where you punch 6 counters. That is the solo game. To think of group and raid content, you have to consider the meta-game (the enviroment in which you play the crafting game). Changing the meta-game and taking it from a safe little box in a guild hall or a village basement and placing it in a dangerous area where you need to interact with things to prevent 'bad stuff' is what I've been talking about all along.</p>

[d1anaw]

<p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lasai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How about.. if you want an adventure class, roll one.</p><p>This psuedo adventure quest garbage is just that.  Garbage.  It is no substitute for an actual, viable crafting system.</p></blockquote><p>The adventure game has 3 tiers of content. Solo, group and raid. The rewards for all three types of activities are different. Solo = treasured, group = legendary, and raid = fabled.</p><p>Crafting is stuck at Solo. There only group content for crafters are the quests that require items from all 9 crafting classes be created and even that is soloable if you happen to have 9 max level crafters. Even the group instances are fully soloable and most crafters that do them seem to perfer soloing them. The rewards for the group instances are slightly better than what a solo quest should give (though not for the time invested) but not up to par on what a true group effort should give.</p><p>What I've been pushing for the last 7 years is the creation of RAID content for crafting. Why you might ask? Because I want to create fabled items. The only way to get the producers of the game to acknowledge that crafters should be able to make fabled items is to legitimize a pathway for us to put in similar effort to what adventurers do to get the same rewards.</p><p>Even then we're going to be held back a bit. Either the fabled we create will have the same drop restrictions as raid gear OR it will eat some itemization points because it will be tradeable. Also there is the whole notion that you don't really need crafting gear, though in an extreme situation like this it would actually help you to get a full set of jewelery, a full crafting outfit, and do all the quests to get the gear that helps you craft faster because the entire event is on a timer.</p><p>I'm not asking for easy-mode. I'm asking for hard-mode actually. Why? Because I want to legitimize crafting to the point we get into the only market left in t9 that will actually sell.</p><p>Now if you can come up with a different idea of how to accomplish similar goals, start your own thread please. If you have comments about this idea, I'd love to hear them. If all your here to do is vent...stop trolling bro.</p></blockquote><p>Well BRO.  Without trolling, BRO, I can say with conviction that the concept of raid crafting on the order of Adventure raiding is ludicrous, BRO.</p><p>We have 6 counters.  How are you going to possibly script any events worthy of Fabled drops with 6 counters, BRO.</p><p>How are you possibly going to make it anything BUT group ez mode, BRO.  Crafting is not, by any stretch of the imagination implemented to have the scripting and difficulty of raid content, much less the gear and itemization requirements, and progression.</p><p>Crafters craft, BRO.  I posted a link to the SWG system of including crafters in a wider conflict environment.. but, at the end of it all... they just craft.  It is what crafters do.</p><p>Now, if you utilized a variation of the SWG system for crafters to collect thier own token items to create higher tier items to sell.. not just commission craft..that would be interesting.  In SWG the crafters collect the same GCW tokens as the fighters do.. and can buy recipe rewards, deconstructable weapons to rebuild, etc.   But to have some ersatz phony raid system with fabled drops.. no no and no.  There is just no possible way to create the risk v reward system to the depth that raid content is today.</p><p>What you suggest is not legitimizing Crafters.  It is "adventuring by other means"</p><p>And don't call me BRO, Pal.  And.. in the future, if you think I am trolling, REPORT ME.  It isn't your call.</p></blockquote><p>Clearly you have a raid mentality and the arrogance to go along with it, including the my way or no way aspect.</p>

[d1anaw]

<p><cite>Aneova@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Guess I've always felt as a crafter I was in combat to create items. Though over time the "Mobs" have been nerfed beyond reason (Yes I want to see folks die baking a batch of cookies again). I've always enjoyed the chance to make a Challenging item over grinding out the grey green combines for secondary tradeskills. It could be done in a way to make a tradeskill raid, we already have group instances for crafters, the items awarded of course would be tradeskill based, special item sets that effect the ease of tradeskilling. Reducing the chance of that batch of cookies killing you for example. Maybe a few special recipes connected to class of tradeskill special back packs for tailor's for example, add in unique NEW armor sets that are APPEARANCE ONLY and LOOK BETTER THEN $MED CA$H armor sets.</p></blockquote><p>I am absolutely for crafters being on an equal footing with adventurers. Not everyone is a warrior and not everyone should have to be. I'm also totally in favor of crafted items being among the best in the game. Not everyone is a raider and non-raiders should be able to get some of the best items in the game and crafters can and should provide that.</p><p>But I'm also not really on board with the concept of a crafting "raid". One of the primary reasons I refuse to raid has a great deal to do with the "raid mentality" as expressed by at least one who is very likely a raider. I have zero use for that kind of egomania. I don't come to play a game to stroke someone else's over inflated ego. I also do not like the demands and time sink requirement mentality that goes into raiding. And if crafting gets into the raiding category, the raiding mentality is sure to follow. The first response to the initial post may have been snotty and arrogant, but there was a certain amount of truth in the scenario. That is precisely what would happen if crafting raiding became the norm. One of the advantages of crafting is that it CAN be done solo. There aren't always others available, as some people actually have to ::::gasp:::: work and have families. These raiding guilds often create problems for people in their real lives because of the demands they place on people's time. And yes, it's their choice, but they do become wrapped up in the "raider mentality". The people who run these things often have no lives outside the game and the game is their be all, end all and their whole self worth is tied up in their "accomplishments" in the game and they expect and demand the same of others. And that is the same thing that would happen in crafting should it be implemented. Of course not everyone does this, but it would happen often enough to make "raid crafting" unappealing to those of us who have no use for the raid mentality. There has to be a better way to allow crafters to be equal partners and to create the most desired articles in the game and stay within their own professions, without resorting to "raiding".</p><p>And I too, think the idea of all professions making all items needs to be nixed. I never even liked the idea of an alchemist or a jeweler making spells. Sages should be the only ones making spells. Jewelers need to make jewelry, tailors clothing, etc. I HATE the blending that has been taking place.</p>

[Deveryn]

<p>The crafter PQ sounds like an interesting idea. I immediately think of the Firemyst Gully mission, where you contribute to a raid force looking to take down an enemy. Let's say this PQ is to help the Coldain gear up for the Storm Gorge PQ. You have until about 5-10 minutes prior to the start to contribute x amount of items. Reaching certain goals provides certain bonuses. Once the adventurer PQ is done, you get to collect a reward, based on how things went.</p>

[Meirril]

<p><cite>d1anaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aneova@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Guess I've always felt as a crafter I was in combat to create items. Though over time the "Mobs" have been nerfed beyond reason (Yes I want to see folks die baking a batch of cookies again). I've always enjoyed the chance to make a Challenging item over grinding out the grey green combines for secondary tradeskills. It could be done in a way to make a tradeskill raid, we already have group instances for crafters, the items awarded of course would be tradeskill based, special item sets that effect the ease of tradeskilling. Reducing the chance of that batch of cookies killing you for example. Maybe a few special recipes connected to class of tradeskill special back packs for tailor's for example, add in unique NEW armor sets that are APPEARANCE ONLY and LOOK BETTER THEN $MED CA$H armor sets.</p></blockquote><p>I am absolutely for crafters being on an equal footing with adventurers. Not everyone is a warrior and not everyone should have to be. I'm also totally in favor of crafted items being among the best in the game. Not everyone is a raider and non-raiders should be able to get some of the best items in the game and crafters can and should provide that.</p><p>But I'm also not really on board with the concept of a crafting "raid". One of the primary reasons I refuse to raid has a great deal to do with the "raid mentality" as expressed by at least one who is very likely a raider. I have zero use for that kind of egomania. I don't come to play a game to stroke someone else's over inflated ego. I also do not like the demands and time sink requirement mentality that goes into raiding. And if crafting gets into the raiding category, the raiding mentality is sure to follow. The first response to the initial post may have been snotty and arrogant, but there was a certain amount of truth in the scenario. That is precisely what would happen if crafting raiding became the norm. One of the advantages of crafting is that it CAN be done solo. There aren't always others available, as some people actually have to ::::gasp:::: work and have families. These raiding guilds often create problems for people in their real lives because of the demands they place on people's time. And yes, it's their choice, but they do become wrapped up in the "raider mentality". The people who run these things often have no lives outside the game and the game is their be all, end all and their whole self worth is tied up in their "accomplishments" in the game and they expect and demand the same of others. And that is the same thing that would happen in crafting should it be implemented. Of course not everyone does this, but it would happen often enough to make "raid crafting" unappealing to those of us who have no use for the raid mentality. There has to be a better way to allow crafters to be equal partners and to create the most desired articles in the game and stay within their own professions, without resorting to "raiding".</p><p>And I too, think the idea of all professions making all items needs to be nixed. I never even liked the idea of an alchemist or a jeweler making spells. Sages should be the only ones making spells. Jewelers need to make jewelry, tailors clothing, etc. I HATE the blending that has been taking place.</p></blockquote><p>The entire thrust of this idea is a way to legitimize additonal itemization points for items crafters can make. It mirrors what adventurers do because right now that is the only path to getting fabled gear that the producers recognize. If you can come up with an idea of a second path that doesn't involve 20+ people and failures write up the idea and present it.</p><p> It really doesn't matter what anyone that replys to this thread thinks. Your trying to convince a developer that your idea is good, they want to make it happen, and they are going to pitch it to the producers. While very few ideas that are written up here are adopted, it does happen. The more you can flesh out your idea and the more viable you make it the better the chances of success. Also having a bunch of people say the idea is great and they'd love to see it doesn't hurt either.</p><p>There is one other method I can think of for legitimizing some enhanced crafted items which mirrors something already in game. I don't think anyone will like it though. You could mirror a crafting quest to be similar to how you can research spells. You prepare materials, which takes a successful combine then X amount of days to cure. Proceed to the next stage which also takes X amount of days to cure. Finally you make the final combine. There is no way you could flood the market, and your cost is time taken to make the item. If it fit in line with research, you would take a month to make a t9 item and you'd only be able to make one at a time.</p><p>In case your wondering, refering to curing by most crafters means letting the item your working on sit and dry. Usually refering to paint or glue.</p>