Time Compression

[Spritelady]

<p>Had Time Comp cast on me, also tried it on a Guard and several others.  The only portion that appears to be working is the Spell Multi-attack.  Reuse, Recovery, and Casting Speed remained unchanged on the test subjects.</p><p>Please fix, Illy's are already quitting left and right, don't tick em off even more.</p>

[Revman]

<p>Just checked and OP is correct, no reuse, recov or casting speed taking place.</p>

[Morghus]

<p>Pretty sure that unless something changed, it has always worked like this.</p><p>It mods <strong>spell</strong> reuse/casting/recovery instead of <strong>ability</strong>. Because of that, it most likely won't show up in your stats window because it specifically modifies only spells.</p>

[BetaEQ]

<p>TC is broken , just like the Op said.</p>

[Wasuna]

<p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure that unless something changed, it has always worked like this.</p><p>It mods <strong>spell</strong> reuse/casting/recovery instead of <strong>ability</strong>. Because of that, it most likely won't show up in your stats window because it specifically modifies only spells.</p></blockquote><p>Classes that don't have spells still have a stat for spell casting speed, even though it would do nothing for us. If TC was cast on them it would show up in the stat window.</p>

[ShadowMunkie]

<p><cite>Wasuna wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Morghus wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty sure that unless something changed, it has always worked like this.</p><p>It mods <strong>spell</strong> reuse/casting/recovery instead of <strong>ability</strong>. Because of that, it most likely won't show up in your stats window because it specifically modifies only spells.</p></blockquote><p>Classes that don't have spells still have a stat for spell casting speed, even though it would do nothing for us. If TC was cast on them it would show up in the stat window.</p></blockquote><p>Now all spells show the value of the stats in the stats window. I'll give you an example, Sirens Call for coercers decreases the reuse speed of spells by 10%, it doesn't show up in the stats window however, if you hover over the spells it reduces 10% still.</p><p>I believe this goes for several other spells and don't quote me but, I think Time Compression was one of those spells. To check basically look at your spells and write down the casting time, then have soemone cast time compression on you and check again. Could just be a stats window bug and the spell could actually still be working.</p>

[therodge]

<p><cite>Spritelady wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Had Time Comp cast on me, also tried it on a Guard and several others.  The only portion that appears to be working is the Spell Multi-attack.  Reuse, Recovery, and Casting Speed remained unchanged on the test subjects.</p><p>Please fix, Illy's are already quitting left and right, don't tick em off even more.</p></blockquote><p>i didnt check spell window however seems to be a noticable diffrence in action</p>

[Terrius]

TC has never shown up in the persona window, even after they added spell cast/reuse to it. It's definatly working as it always has, just doesnt show up in stats.

[BetaEQ]

<p>          Ran ACT on a couple dummy runs with a troub with low reuse,casting, and recovery.It made no difference having time compression on him. Ran a warlock also but he was closer to cap, but wasnt capped, he did more damage wthout it. Time compression is broke, had no noticeable effect, except for the AA ability chronomagic.</p>

[Haciv]

<p>TC is not broken, it works exactly as it is described, but it needs some lovin.  Add 1 dot tick or 10 potency or 5 more spell double attack to TC, kthx.</p>

[Lempo]

<p>If TC were broken our Wizard would have said something in the past 2 nights raiding his parse was right where it should have been.</p><p>I don't know whether or not it affects stats/persona window for sure (I thought it did) I know last week when I had TC it worked for spell reuse as I am not quite capped, and the difference was noticeable.</p>

[ShadowMunkie]

<p><cite>Zalakria@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>TC has never shown up in the persona window, even after they added spell cast/reuse to it. It's definatly working as it always has, just doesnt show up in stats.</blockquote><p>QFE, as I suspected Time Compression is one of the spells that never showed up in the personae window so to determine if its working you have to manually examine the spell before and after TC is applied to you. You can't tell by using ACT and training dummies, you don't need a third party program you just need a mouse and a brain/memory.</p><p>1: Right click examine a spell.2: Remember the casting speed.3: Get TC cast upon you, repeat step 1 and 2.4: Repeat if you forgot the first number.</p><p>Edit: Remember to do these steps while you have 0 gear on to fully determine if the spell is working. Remember you cannot go under 50% base casting on any given spell even if the cap of casting is greater than 100% (Atleast you couldn't whenever I last used perpetuality, which gives 100%+ after all triggers. Meaning if a spell is 1second cast, it will only drop to .5 seconds cast.)</p><p>It doesn't take anything special as people have stated its working. However I just wanted to point out you can't justify using ACT for everything in the game. Also, I disagree with an above poster stating it needs boosting. Its right in line with Coercive Healing which is the counter partner of TC. Recovery is a formidable opponent, if you don't understand how much 33% recovery works then undoubtly you have never played a class with lots of recovery. Lower recovery time is a good chunk of DPS in a raid situation. (This sentence means no disrespect, as I do not know what you have or have not played I am merely stating try a class with a huge amount of recovery vs a class with barely any and you will see exactly how much of a difference it makes.)</p>

[Banditman]

<p>The bug with TC is that it doesn't show up.  It takes effect, it just doesn't show up.  Definitely something that needs to be addressed, if only to prevent continued misunderstanding.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>TC is not broken, it works exactly as it is described, but it needs some lovin.  Add 1 dot tick or 10 potency or 5 more spell double attack to TC, kthx.</p></blockquote><p>Right after they make Coercer's TSO endline ability - Intellectual Remedy - actually worth something. 15% improvement to heals for 20second every 5 minutes is the suck - to the point healers don't even know it's something they can ask for...</p>

[Haciv]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>TC is not broken, it works exactly as it is described, but it needs some lovin.  Add 1 dot tick or 10 potency or 5 more spell double attack to TC, kthx.</p></blockquote><p>Right after they make Coercer's TSO endline ability - Intellectual Remedy - actually worth something. 15% improvement to heals for 20second every 5 minutes is the suck - to the point healers don't even know it's something they can ask for...</p></blockquote><p>I do not disagree. This thread is about TC though.</p>

[Revman]

<p>Just tested again. It doesn't show up on your stats but if you examine a spell before TC, you'll see the difference after it's cast.</p>

[Lempo]

<p><cite>Revman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just tested again. It doesn't show up on your stats but if you examine a spell before TC, you'll see the difference after it's cast.</p></blockquote><p>Yep same results no affect on stats in character screen on default UI but the spell cast time did display differently AND the difference was noticeable.</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>TC is not broken, it works exactly as it is described, but it needs some lovin.  Add 1 dot tick or 10 potency or 5 more spell double attack to TC, kthx.</p></blockquote><p>Right after they make Coercer's TSO endline ability - Intellectual Remedy - actually worth something. 15% improvement to heals for 20second every 5 minutes is the suck - to the point healers don't even know it's something they can ask for...</p></blockquote><p>Except that IR is not in any way comparable to TC.  IR is comparable to Destructive Rampage.</p><p>TC is comparable to Coercive Healing.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Except that IR is not in any way comparable to TC.  IR is comparable to Destructive Rampage.</p><p>TC is comparable to Coercive Healing.</p></blockquote><p>OK - fair enough. </p><p>Coercer buffs mostly suck vs. Illy buffs - much rather have DR vs. IR. Can't help but bristle a bit when Illies cry to have their buffs improved w/ additional ticks / dots / SMA / etc. TC is a great buff - as proven by the wizzies that beg for it - it doesn't need any buffing.</p><p>But yet - if it's broke - fix it. I do know many buffs will not show up in persona window..  </p>

[Loldawg]

<p>double post - </p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Except that IR is not in any way comparable to TC.  IR is comparable to Destructive Rampage.</p><p>TC is comparable to Coercive Healing.</p></blockquote><p>OK - fair enough. </p><p>Coercer buffs mostly suck vs. Illy buffs - much rather have DR vs. IR. Can't help but bristle a bit when Illies cry to have their buffs improved w/ additional ticks / dots / SMA / etc. TC is a great buff - as proven by the wizzies that beg for it - it doesn't need any buffing.</p><p><span style="color: #339966;">I got news for you, IR is in fact a much better buff than DR.  The "problem" is that IR simply isn't as "obvious".</span></p><p><span style="color: #339966;">The only reason Wizards want TC is for the spell DA.  Believe me, that's it.  Wizards are already capped on cast and re-use.</span></p><p>But yet - if it's broke - fix it. I do know many buffs will not show up in persona window..  </p><p><span style="color: #339966;">Really?  Name another.</span></p></blockquote><p>The biggest problem Enchanters - both flavors - have right now is that they need a challenging role.  Their utility - again both flavors - has been highly marginalized with the exception of power regen, and power regen is too easy.</p>

[ShadowMunkie]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Except that IR is not in any way comparable to TC.  IR is comparable to Destructive Rampage.</p><p>TC is comparable to Coercive Healing.</p></blockquote><p>OK - fair enough. </p><p>Coercer buffs mostly suck vs. Illy buffs - much rather have DR vs. IR. Can't help but bristle a bit when Illies cry to have their buffs improved w/ additional ticks / dots / SMA / etc. TC is a great buff - as proven by the wizzies that beg for it - it doesn't need any buffing.</p><p><span style="color: #339966;">I got news for you, IR is in fact a much better buff than DR.  The "problem" is that IR simply isn't as "obvious".</span></p><p><span style="color: #339966;">The only reason Wizards want TC is for the spell DA.  Believe me, that's it.  Wizards are already capped on cast and re-use.</span></p><p>But yet - if it's broke - fix it. I do know many buffs will not show up in persona window..  </p><p><strong><span style="color: #339966;">Really?  Name another.</span></strong></p></blockquote><p>The biggest problem Enchanters - both flavors - have right now is that they need a challenging role.  Their utility - again both flavors - has been highly marginalized with the exception of power regen, and power regen is too easy.</p></blockquote><p>Siren Stare</p><p>Just wanted to point out the obvious, since you wanted to know. Siren Stare's "reuse" component does not show up in the personae window because it works close to Time Compression. It reduces the reuse of all spells BEFORE other stats are applied.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p>We can disagree about IR. If TC = Coerceive Healing, Illies still have IA and Timewarp. Coercive Shout is highly situational and many times unhelpful. Ask anyone which buffs they'd rather have - illy or coercer - illy will always win. It's barely debatable. With DPS at least the same between the two chanters - I'm pretty sure at this point Illies are the favored chanter...</p>

[Shotneedle]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>TC is not broken, it works exactly as it is described, but it needs some lovin.  Add 1 dot tick or 10 potency or 5 more spell double attack to TC, kthx.</p></blockquote><p>Right after they make Coercer's TSO endline ability - Intellectual Remedy - actually worth something. 15% improvement to heals for 20second every 5 minutes is the suck - to the point healers don't even know it's something they can ask for...</p></blockquote><p>IR is boss. Just saying.</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We can disagree about IR. If TC = Coerceive Healing, Illies still have IA and Timewarp. Coercive Shout is highly situational and many times unhelpful. Ask anyone which buffs they'd rather have - illy or coercer - illy will always win. It's barely debatable. With DPS at least the same between the two chanters - I'm pretty sure at this point Illies are the favored chanter...</p></blockquote><p>Coercive Shout is a piece of (*@$.  No doubt about that.  Even if it worked, it isn't really all that great.  If Coercive Shout just plain WORKED - no immunity, no bullspit, might be an ok ability, but not on par with Time Warp.  Again, in all fairness, at release, Time Warp was a piece of (*&@ too.</p><p>IA and Tashiana are fairly comparable, and probably work out equal in the long run.  Where IA is a very focused buff, as in only one person gets the benefit, Tashiana benefits EVERYONE.</p><p>Thought Snap is garbage, but so is Split Personality.  Manaward is crap, as Coercers aren't priests, but then again Illuminate is only marginally useful these days, as no one ever gets resisted.</p><p>So yea, the Enchanter endlines are only so-so.  The biggest need Enchanters have is a role.  Specific abilities should be tailored around that role.  These abilities should be dynamic in such a way as to allow a truly talented Enchanter to distinguish himself from an average one.</p><p>When and if that ever happens, I think you'll have a lot of very happy Enchanters - of both flavors.</p>

[ShadowMunkie]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We can disagree about IR. If TC = Coerceive Healing, Illies still have IA and Timewarp. Coercive Shout is highly situational and many times unhelpful. Ask anyone which buffs they'd rather have - illy or coercer - illy will always win. It's barely debatable. With DPS at least the same between the two chanters - I'm pretty sure at this point Illies are the favored chanter...</p></blockquote><p>I agree the Coercer's buffs seems lacking. Everything we give can easily be capped just about. Hate Transfer is the ONLY reason we stay in the MT group.</p><p>A couple things need to be changed for us to actually have decent buffs.<strong>Peaceful Link</strong> needs to be changed into a Melee version of Synergism.<strong>Velocity</strong> needs to give Multi-Attack and Spell Multi-Attack.<strong>Manaward</strong> could be changed into a retroactive ward for the group that takes 5% of the coercers power every second and puts a ward equal to it on the group.<strong>Amnesia</strong> needs to be change to either a buff or a damage spell, its useless.<strong>Destructive Mind</strong> could be made into a self target persistant buff with reduced damage output but, triggers on every spell.<strong>Minds Eye</strong> should be changed into a ward that takes 25% of our power and returns 10% as a ward for whom ever we put it on.<strong>Thoughtsnap</strong> should be changed into a single target buff for tanks that whenever they taunt it has a chance of proccing a 24 spot priority threat increaser.<strong>Coercive Shout</strong> should be changed into a group wide temporary buff that while up, everyone's power is replenished whenever they use a spell/combat art by the coercer's power.</p><p>These are just some thoughts, I mean nothing major. All would be really interesting ideasl we all know sony though they will never use any of these.</p>

[Loldawg]

<p>I used to use Coercive Shout during SF as a 5 sec emergency when the fight went south and healers needed a hand. Now, with co-op strike, I can't even use it as that... </p><p>Change the mechanic to proc a 24 positional hate vs. forcing mobs onto the tank would let the tanks control what mobs are affected...</p>

[Glenolas]

<p><cite>Spritelady wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Had Time Comp cast on me, also tried it on a Guard and several others.  The only portion that appears to be working is the Spell Multi-attack.  Reuse, Recovery, and Casting Speed remained unchanged on the test subjects.</p><p>Please fix, Illy's are already quitting left and right, don't tick em off even more.</p></blockquote><p>TC cast time effects have never shown up in the player stat's window.   It also applies ONLY to spells, not combat arts.</p><p>You can see it's effect by having the recipient mouse over any <em>spell</em> icon and read the cast time with and without TC.</p><p>If the spell was capped before applying TC, then TC will do nothing for that parameter, and since TC will sometimes drive it over the cap,  you'll see less than it's max benefit.</p><p>That's been the basic problem with TC in raids, as any caster or healer is already cast time capped.  It's gone from an extreme benefit to worthless.    The 5% spell double attack was added when cast time gear went thru the roof, or it would be completely worthless.</p><p>Last time I checked (not recently) the defilers ROA (another cast time adjusting spell) also did not show up in the stat's window but it's effect will also show on the mouseover of the spell icons.  </p><p>Over the years the character window has failed to show many other cast time benefits (most notably sorcerors AA improvements) but some of those errors have been fixed, and new ones introduced.   The only reliable way I've found to determine factual cast time is to measure it independently.  Generally, the mouseover of the icon works next best.</p><p>The new combat guy has minimal understanding of the nuances many classes, and it shows in lots of AA trees, including TC.  The UI itself seems to be a group work in progress,  with so many irritating errors  they become hard to count.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Spritelady wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please fix, Illy's are already quitting left and right, don't tick em off even more.</p></blockquote><p>Oh? And why would that be?</p>

[ranga]

<p><cite>Lolkat@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>TC is not broken, it works exactly as it is described, but it needs some lovin.  Add 1 dot tick or 10 potency or 5 more spell double attack to TC, kthx.</p></blockquote><p>Right after they make Coercer's TSO endline ability - Intellectual Remedy - actually worth something. 15% improvement to heals for 20second every 5 minutes is the suck - to the point healers don't even know it's something they can ask for...</p></blockquote><p>Healers shdnt have to ask for it. It's up to the coercer to make a judgement call as to when it is needed.</p>