"Death" is stupid!

[Aelfan]

<p>I hate "death". I am told that in EQ1 death was serious, and you really died. I think I'd hate that, too, but at least it sounds as though it made sense, even in the magico-mythical world of Norrath. Death in EQ2 is just stupid. How can we just resurrect from our graves? It's idiotic. Either have death, or accept that we do not have death in EQ2, we are really just knocked unconscious.</p><p>We should wake up (like the start in New Halas) in a nice medical tent, with someone looking over us, in a little encampment with a mender right there. I just died in G Faydark with my new toon, and "woke up" halfway across GF where there is strangely no longer a mender, instead of that nice little camp where Mentha Haora and the others are. The "resurrection" spots are stupidly far away, the "wake-up" spots would be in the numerous encampments spread across the landscape where you probably just picked up the quest anyway.</p><p>When, through some misfortune, you have been knocked unconscious, the window pops up to tell you that, and the "recover" button should work immediately, not with that incredibly irritating little delay (I really don't know how Sony survive at all with irritations like that in the game). Your pet does not die. Why would our pets die, unless possibly they are combat pets? The dev that wrote in the notice to say that your pet kitten died of pain and sufferring must be one sick puppy. In fact your kitten hid in the shrubbery when you were knocked unconscious, and is waiting for you when you wake up.  I'd also like to say that armour gets just as banged up and dented when you win as when you lose, so even the need for a mender is absurd, but that may be going to far for the old-school. What I really want to say is even if we put up with the consquences, which are alone irritating, can we not put up with the <em><strong>absurdity </strong></em>that is "death" in EQ2?</p>

[Yohun]

<p>You were supposed to take the blue pills this morning, not the red ones!</p>

[Finora]

<p>All I have to say is LOL.</p><p>Pain and suffering is typically a real jerk and has little regard for life whether it's a hideous monster or a cute fluffy bunny. He's been killing things in Norrath for going on 13 years now. I don't think he's going to be stopping anytime soon.</p><p>In Eq1, it was similar in that when you "died" you popped up elsewhere (generally in whatever city you had been bound in unless you happened to be one of those classes that could bind other places). However you were naked and buffless. You had to run all the way back to where ever it was you died unless someone kind cleric had resurected you.  with lost xp and possibly lost levels. Depending on where you were fighting and where you were bound that could be a very very long run, not to mention you had to find your body without the convient little tombstone thing on a minimap that you have with games like WoW and Rift.</p><p>In EQ2 its easier to be sure, you pop up fully clothed with just some xp debt, damage to your gear and a relatively minor debuff that lasts a couple of minutes. But you only have 10 deaths before your gear is busted and you need to get mended. There are menders in every city in several places and occassionally one stationed out in an adventuring area (particularly at lower levels for the newbies just getting used to things). At higher levels you can always carry around repair kits(I forget what level you can start using those) or become a tinker and make yourself a repair bot.</p><p>Death in Eq2 is no more stupid or irritating than it is in WoW or Rift or Vanguard or LOTRO or countless other games out there. It's not FreeRealms, death isn't going to be completely meaningless. There will always be some cost, in the case of Eq2 it's a little bit of coin, a little bit of time and a minor lessening of your xp gain for a few kills.</p><p>The gear breaking is to give SOME cost for failure and an additional money sink in the game. The higher level you get and better your gear gets, the more you have to pay to get it fixed. That neatly coincides with the fact that the higher level you are and better your gear the more likely it is you can afford a higher repair bill.</p>

[Brigh]

<p><cite>Aelfan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I hate "death". I am told <span style="color: #ff0000;">(so you don't really know how the mechanics worked/works now)</span> that in EQ1 death was serious, and you really died. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(you "really die" in EQ II also)</span> I think I'd hate that, too, but at least it sounds as though it made sense, even in the magico-mythical world of Norrath. Death in EQ2 is just stupid. How can we just resurrect from our graves? <span style="color: #ff0000;">(it's a game. Want a perma-death server? EQ 1 had one as a contest for a short time)</span> It's idiotic. Either have death, or accept that we do not have death in EQ2, we are really just knocked unconscious. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(This is not LoTRO)</span></p><p>We should wake up (like the start in New Halas) in a nice medical tent, with someone looking over us, in a little encampment with a mender right there. I just died in G Faydark with my new toon, and "woke up" halfway across GF where there is strangely no longer a mender, instead of that nice little camp where Mentha Haora and the others are. The "resurrection" spots are stupidly far away, the "wake-up" spots would be in the numerous encampments spread across the landscape where you probably just picked up the quest anyway. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(I have yet to die to newbie stuff these days. There is this action called, "run away". Use it. If you "die" you have choices where to revive, and there is the horse system to get you fast and close to where you want to go.)</span></p><p>When, through some misfortune, you have been knocked unconscious, the window pops up to tell you that, and the "recover" button should work immediately, not with that incredibly irritating little delay (I really don't know how Sony survive at all with irritations like that in the game). <span style="color: #ff0000;">(what delay? You really sound like you suffer from some sort of behavioral disorder)</span> Your pet does not die. Why would our pets die, unless possibly they are combat pets? The dev that wrote in the notice to say that your pet kitten died of pain and sufferring must be one sick puppy. <span style="color: #ff0000;">(you are complaining about the blue combat text - and cosmetic pets - most people probably don't even see? I have all my combat text in a tab all by itself. See the last parens)</span> In fact your kitten hid in the shrubbery when you were knocked unconscious, and is waiting for you when you wake up.  I'd also like to say that armour gets just as banged up and dented when you win as when you lose, so even the need for a mender is absurd <span style="color: #ff0000;">(it is called a money sink within a closed game economy)</span>, but that may be going to far for the old-school. What I really want to say is even if we put up with the consquences, which are alone irritating, can we not put up with the <em><strong>absurdity </strong></em>that is "death" in EQ2?</p></blockquote>

[Brigh]

<p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>All I have to say is LOL.</p><p>Pain and suffering is typically a real jerk and has little regard for life whether it's a hideous monster or a cute fluffy bunny. He's been killing things in Norrath for going on 13 years now. I don't think he's going to be stopping anytime soon.</p><p>In Eq1, it was similar in that when you "died" you popped up elsewhere (generally in whatever city you had been bound in unless you happened to be one of those classes that could bind other places). However you were naked and buffless. You had to run all the way back to where ever it was you died unless someone kind cleric had resurected you.  with lost xp and possibly lost levels. Depending on where you were fighting and where you were bound that could be a very very long run, not to mention you had to find your body without the convient little tombstone thing on a minimap that you have with games like WoW and Rift.</p><p>In EQ2 its easier to be sure, you pop up fully clothed with just some xp debt, damage to your gear and a relatively minor debuff that lasts a couple of minutes <span style="color: #ff0000;">(OP - it used to last 15 minutes!)</span>. But you only have 10 deaths before your gear is busted and you need to get mended. There are menders in every city in several places and occassionally one stationed out in an adventuring area (particularly at lower levels for the newbies just getting used to things). At higher levels you can always carry around repair kits(I forget what level you can start using those) or become a tinker and make yourself a repair bot.</p><p>Death in Eq2 is no more stupid or irritating than it is in WoW or Rift or Vanguard or LOTRO or countless other games out there. It's not FreeRealms, death isn't going to be completely meaningless. There will always be some cost, in the case of Eq2 it's a little bit of coin, a little bit of time and a minor lessening of your xp gain for a few kills.</p><p>The gear breaking is to give SOME cost for failure and an additional money sink in the game. The higher level you get and better your gear gets, the more you have to pay to get it fixed. That neatly coincides with the fact that the higher level you are and better your gear the more likely it is you can afford a higher repair bill.</p></blockquote>

[Cusashorn]

<p><cite>Aelfan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I hate "death". I am told that in EQ1 death was serious, and you really died. I think I'd hate that, too, but at least it sounds as though it made sense, even in the magico-mythical world of Norrath. Death in EQ2 is just stupid. How can we just resurrect from our graves? It's idiotic. Either have death, or accept that we do not have death in EQ2, we are really just knocked unconscious.</p></blockquote><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">Death in EQlive meant that your body ressurected from wherever you were bound (your grave, if you will), and had to go back to recover your equipment from your corpse AND grind back the XP you lose when you die. There was nothing "real" about it at all. </span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">At least in EQ2, you rise from your grave within the same zone as where you died, not halfway around the world.</span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">This thread is pointless.</span></p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Brigh wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aelfan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>When, through some misfortune, you have been knocked unconscious, the window pops up to tell you that, and the "recover" button should work immediately, not with that incredibly irritating little delay (I really don't know how Sony survive at all with irritations like that in the game). <span style="color: #ff0000;">(what delay? You really sound like you suffer from some sort of behavioral disorder)</span></blockquote></blockquote><p>There is a small delay before the revive button becomes active to prevent accidental revival. I know, sounds odd, but it used to happen and was complained about A LOT especially by raiders. The amount of the delay depends on the speed of your own computer and connection. It just -seems- longer when you're soloing and irritated that you were stupid enough to get your clock cleaned because you did something you really shouldn't have (for me it's because I forget to look at my health bar on one character who doesn't take hits well after I just switched from an alt who does, it's also a bad idea to switch to an alt who can't take on a hoarde of adds from one who can, it's an even worse idea to combine those two bad ideas).</p>

[Aelfan]

<p><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">Death in EQlive meant that your body ressurected from wherever you were bound (your grave, if you will), and had to go back to recover your equipment from your corpse AND grind back the XP you lose when you die. There was nothing "real" about it at all. </span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">At least in EQ2, you rise from your grave within the same zone as where you died, not halfway around the world.</span></p><p><span style="color: #3366ff;">This thread is pointless.</span></p></blockquote><p>But at least it had a point in EQ1. Your corporeal shell ceases its link to your eternal soul, which then may, through some prior arrangment, be provided with a new body, perhaps by cloning. It would be logical that the new body would not have retained the experience since the last time the memories of that soul were saved for an emergency. Neil Gaiman used the same concept in Neverwhere, only in that case it was neccessary to retrieve the body in order to corporealise again. Death in EQ1 seems to have been given the respect it is due. This trivial death in EQ2 is like some self-resurecting zombification. Someone found our body, buried it somewhere inconvenient, and then left before our resurection, presumably just in case we were still miffed? Should our toons start to turn gangrenous and have infestations of corpse-eating beetles? Should Sony intoduce a race of zombies for those that have frequent-dier faction?</p><p>Don't mind me, I'm just sad because my new toon lost their free flying mount today. I loved that pink gryphon.</p><p>And thanks for that info about the delay! I never knew that was why it was there. I must admit to being a quick-clicker on that button to the annoyance of my druid friends. Now it won't bother me so much. See, the thread wasn't pointless after all! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Finora]

<p><cite>Aelfan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But at least it had a point in EQ1. Your corporeal shell ceases its link to your eternal soul, which then may, through some prior arrangment, be provided with a new body, perhaps by cloning. It would be logical that the new body would not have retained the experience since the last time the memories of that soul were saved for an emergency. Neil Gaiman used the same concept in Neverwhere, only in that case it was neccessary to retrieve the body in order to corporealise again. Death in EQ1 seems to have been given the respect it is due. This trivial death in EQ2 is like some self-resurecting zombification. Someone found our body, buried it somewhere inconvenient, and then left before our resurection, presumably just in case we were still miffed? Should our toons start to turn gangrenous and have infestations of corpse-eating beetles? Should Sony intoduce a race of zombies for those that have frequent-dier faction?</p></blockquote><p>Death in Eq1 had absolutly nothing at all to do with that. It was merely a (different and more severe) punishment for messing up. No cloning magical or otherwise. You can choose to view it that way but in game death isn't part of the lore, it's merely a mechanic developers use as a deterent, timesink and coin sink. Just like mob respawn. It's not particularly realistic to be able to kill the same named creature every hour or each day (depending on the mob and the zone), but its part of the mechanics of MMOs.</p>

[Wurm]

<p>Is the OP the same guy who wants to get rid of combat in the game as well and turn the game into Ever-decorate?</p><p>Sure sounds like it.</p><p>*edit* Yep its him, go away troll.</p>

[Valena]

<p>I can cope with death in its current form. It's not too much an intrusion into your gameplay but you do suffer some (minor) consequences in rev sickness and repair costs, enough to remind you to be more careful in future.</p><p>It's better than many of the other solutions in the MMO world such as:</p><p>In Anarchy Online you rev a LONG way from your group spot and suffer rev sickness. A group wipe can be enough to make people drop group and go do something else as it can stop play for 5+ mins.</p><p>In STO you simply revive, practically on your death spot. No disruption, nothing. Death has no consequence at all and as a result you simply don't try to stay alive as hard as you would in some other games.</p><p>You need some consequence to dying but nowadays, in this world of "instant gratification" you can't make it too severe or the fickle masses will leave for pastures new. I think EQ has the balance about right.</p>

[Seiffil]

<p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aelfan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But at least it had a point in EQ1. Your corporeal shell ceases its link to your eternal soul, which then may, through some prior arrangment, be provided with a new body, perhaps by cloning. It would be logical that the new body would not have retained the experience since the last time the memories of that soul were saved for an emergency. Neil Gaiman used the same concept in Neverwhere, only in that case it was neccessary to retrieve the body in order to corporealise again. Death in EQ1 seems to have been given the respect it is due. This trivial death in EQ2 is like some self-resurecting zombification. Someone found our body, buried it somewhere inconvenient, and then left before our resurection, presumably just in case we were still miffed? Should our toons start to turn gangrenous and have infestations of corpse-eating beetles? Should Sony intoduce a race of zombies for those that have frequent-dier faction?</p></blockquote><p>Death in Eq1 had absolutly nothing at all to do with that. It was merely a (different and more severe) punishment for messing up. No cloning magical or otherwise. You can choose to view it that way but in game death isn't part of the lore, it's merely a mechanic developers use as a deterent, timesink and coin sink. Just like mob respawn. It's not particularly realistic to be able to kill the same named creature every hour or each day (depending on the mob and the zone), but its part of the mechanics of MMOs.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with this completely. </p><p>EQ1 also had possibility of losing your corpse if you couldn't get to it in time.  The place where this was most often an issue honestly was Plane of Fear.  The experience loss and the potential for deleveling were also issues.  But even in EQ1 while the penalties may not have necessarily changed, things got easier.  Corpse summoning NPCs in the guild lobby.  They still have experience loss on death, they still have the risk of losing your corpse, even if it is minimized.</p><p>In EQ2 they went with experience debt cause honestly, no one liked deleveling in EQ1.  I dinged 60 3-4 times the day I first hit it thanks to dying in sebilis a few times.  I had raids cancelled cause our MT deleveled and could no longer wear his gear to tank for our raid.  Experience debt takes the place of deleveling, now you just have to get more experience to go from point a to b, and it increases each time you die, but it's the same concept.  You can even look at breaking gear as the same as deleveling to the point where you couldn't equip your gear any longer.</p><p>Does death matter in this game? no, but even in EQ1, it didn't really matter that much in the end.  Raiders knew they were going to die, so would make sure to have an experience buffer.  Death doesn't truly matter in any game.  The only version of EQ where death mattered was when they created their hardcore server which gave a toon one death, and after that your toon was truly dead.  That's the only way to make death truly matter and it will never happen.</p>

[Mystfit]

<p>Death in lotro always cracked me up, you don't die....you lose morale...as in, you get soooo depressed you fall down, curl into a ball and sob until someone like a minstrel sings you a song to undepress you.....</p>

[Valena]

<p><cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Death in lotro always cracked me up, you don't die....you lose morale...as in, you get soooo depressed you fall down, curl into a ball and sob until someone like a minstrel sings you a song to undepress you.....</p></blockquote><p>I felt the same way. No death, just depresson. Design for the prozac nation.</p>

[mikbove]

<p>"Stupid Deaths, Stupid Deaths! There Funny 'cuz they're true! Stupid Deaths Stupid Deaths Hope Nxt Time its not YOU!"</p>

[Grumble69]

<p>I remember playing EQ1.  I don't remember which zone our guild was doing.  But we wiped deep in someplace.  It was a work night.  And I had to stay up late into the evening for my corpse to be pulled out.  I was completely exhausted the next day and I remember having to come up with some lame excuse why I was dragging my butt around.  It was one of several reasons why I quit the game soon after.</p><p>I guess if you're jobless and living in Mama's basement, you can get away with something more realistic.  But for the rest of us in this world, we actually have a life thank you very much.  EQ2 is just fine.</p>

[Morrias]

<p>You don't die in video games, so silly.</p>

[Rijacki]

<p><cite>Grumble69 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I remember playing EQ1.  I don't remember which zone our guild was doing.  But we wiped deep in someplace.  It was a work night.  And I had to stay up late into the evening for my corpse to be pulled out.  I was completely exhausted the next day and I remember having to come up with some lame excuse why I was dragging my butt around.  It was one of several reasons why I quit the game soon after.</p></blockquote><p>For me, that was Fear (the zone, not the condition).</p><p>But yeah, a "one more pull before bed" could become hours of attempting to retrieve a corpse so you wouldn't lose everything.</p><p>EQ1 no longer has the same death conditions. You still get the XP loss, but no more naked corpse runs from your bind point.</p>

[Aelfan]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is the OP the same guy who wants to get rid of combat in the game as well and turn the game into Ever-decorate?</p><p>Sure sounds like it.</p><p>*edit* Yep its him, go away troll.</p></blockquote><p>You should do some research. Google "web-troll". Trolls do not create original posts, but merely lurk on the forum all the time (as in ALL of the time) looking for other people's posts, which they immediately attack without reading or understanding. Oh! That's rather like what you just did! Rather like you did on my post asking for housing with a higher item limit.</p>

[Aelfan]

<p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>in game death isn't part of the lore, it's merely a mechanic developers use as a deterent, timesink and coin sink.</p></blockquote><p>Death isn't part of the lore? What kind of a world do we play in? Ah! I remember, the one in which the goddess of love is dead!</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>Aelfan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is the OP the same guy who wants to get rid of combat in the game as well and turn the game into Ever-decorate?</p><p>Sure sounds like it.</p><p>*edit* Yep its him, go away troll.</p></blockquote><p>You should do some research. Google "web-troll". Trolls do not create original posts, but merely lurk on the forum all the time (as in ALL of the time) looking for other people's posts, which they immediately attack without reading or understanding. Oh! That's rather like what you just did! Rather like you did on my post asking for housing with a higher item limit.</p></blockquote><p>I know what a troll is and you sir are one. Don't like being called a troll? Stop trying to ruin the game with assinine suggestions.</p><p>*edit* Your thread asking for higher housing limits also asked for them to remove combat from EQ2. For the record and all that.</p>

[Grong]

<p>"How can we resurrect from our graves?"</p><p>And to think this question comes at Easter time.</p>

[Morrias]

<p><cite>Aelfan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is the OP the same guy who wants to get rid of combat in the game as well and turn the game into Ever-decorate?</p><p>Sure sounds like it.</p><p>*edit* Yep its him, go away troll.</p></blockquote><p>You should do some research. Google "web-troll". Trolls do not create original posts, but merely lurk on the forum all the time (as in ALL of the time) looking for other people's posts, which they immediately attack without reading or understanding. Oh! That's rather like what you just did! Rather like you did on my post asking for housing with a higher item limit.</p></blockquote><p>You clearly have never been to a certain website I won't mention cuz I'm sure the mods don't want me to.. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Finora]

<p><cite>Aelfan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>in game death isn't part of the lore, it's merely a mechanic developers use as a deterent, timesink and coin sink.</p></blockquote><p>Death isn't part of the lore? What kind of a world do we play in? Ah! I remember, the one in which the goddess of love is dead!</p></blockquote><p>Note I say IN GAME DEATH, as in your player character dying fighting mobs. It is a mechanic. Nothing more. Some games dress up old school eq1 corpse runs so that you look like a ghost or flying ball of wispiness, but it's still the exact same thing, not real death just a in game mechanic to deter people from screwing up, cost them some time (so they play longer) and some coin (to remove some of the coin from the economy completely).</p><p>Some things just ARE in MMOs. The devs choose a mechanic to handle a certain type of situation. They don't necessarily write up lore to cover that mechanic. 99% of the playerbase doesn't require a tidbit of lore just to explain why when they get completely beaten by X monster they have penalties (no matter how minor).</p>