Windslasher, please help help us tweak SG and quell some rumors. [Archive]

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Shassia

04-08-2011, 11:21 AM

I've done SG dozens and dozens of times, and finished it to its x4 completion the vast majority of those times, including a handful of occasions when we didn't have a full raid. This morning was a whole different ball of wax.True, we were a bit shorthanded, but we pretty much plowed through the riders without difficulty. Goredeth, however, was simply unbeatable and after over a half hour we decided to just wipe and be demoted to an easier version. His regen when on steroids was unbelievable. Also, we had a nice lengthy discussion about what causes him to regen exactly while in his bigger form.Then afterward, several people didn't have loot rights on the chest. I have never seen so many people not get the reawrd - there were at least four or five people that got no reward after spending 40 minutes of their time and dying several times.Question number 1: Please confirm if Goredeth heals by killing PCs, or just by being struck by DPS. I was always told that it was the former, but after this battle I am convinced otherwise. He regenned from 70% to full in literally 2 seconds without killing anyone.Question number 2: I'm not asking for a tweak in his regen exactly, because most of the time it seems to work just fine, and I don't think the encounter should get easier... when it's working right. But could you please check under the hood to see if there's circumstances that makes it more powerful than it should be.Question number 3: How is everything coming along with the loot fix? I personally can't see any pattern at all between the people who qualify and the people who don't.Thanks for your time.

Wurm

04-08-2011, 11:55 AM

And please find out why people are getting one shot while on the other side of the area and while standing behind him.

kdmorse

04-08-2011, 12:33 PM

<cite>Shassa@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Question number 1: Please confirm if Goredeth heals by killing PCs, or just by being struck by DPS. I was always told that it was the former, but after this battle I am convinced otherwise. He regenned from 70% to full in literally 2 seconds without killing anyone.</blockquote>Goredeth heals whenever HE hits a PC (and maybe a NPC, my logs aren't 100% conclusive on that score). Regardless of amount of damage, parry, riposte, or other effects. Any time you would see a message saying "Goredeth hits fred..", "Goredeth hits fred but fred...", etc... - that's a 50% chance to heal nearly a million HP.If people don't physically back out (how far you have to back out is a matter of debate) - his AOE swipe will hit 20 people, and heal 10% instantly. Two more swipes, and he will go, as you experienced, from 70% to 100% really [Removed for Content] fast.(And if you don't believe me, check your own logs, or read the logs posted in other threads on the topic, or read his buff which details his healing condition, or read the other threads where his buff was transcibed, or where screenshots were posted).When he enlarges:*) DO get out of melee combat range.*) DO continue DPSing from rangeFailure to do either of the above will result in a fun filled hour long dps/heal/dps/heal/dps/heal/fail cycle.

kdmorse

04-08-2011, 12:40 PM

<cite>Wurm wrote:</cite><blockquote>And please find out why people are getting one shot while on the other side of the area and while standing behind him.</blockquote>His elemental AoE is a full 360, and has a signifigant radius, standing behind him is not safe. Don't know about 'other side of the area' though. I know people complain about it, but I've never seen it personally, so I don't have a good sense of the extent of it's range. (ie, at max casting range, it's never hit me, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid complaint).

Shassia

04-08-2011, 12:48 PM

<cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Goredeth heals whenever HE hits a PC (and maybe a NPC, my logs aren't 100% conclusive on that score). Regardless of amount of damage, parry, riposte, or other effects. Any time you would see a message saying "Goredeth hits fred..", "Goredeth hits fred but fred...", etc... - that's a 50% chance to heal nearly a million HP.If people don't physically back out (how far you have to back out is a matter of debate) - his AOE swipe will hit 20 people, and heal 10% instantly. Two more swipes, and he will go, as you experienced, from 70% to 100% really [Removed for Content] fast.(And if you don't believe me, check your own logs, or read the logs posted in other threads on the topic, or read his buff which details his healing condition, or read the other threads where his buff was transcibed, or where screenshots were posted).When he enlarges:*) DO get out of melee combat range.*) DO continue DPSing from rangeFailure to do either of the above will result in a fun filled hour long dps/heal/dps/heal/dps/heal/fail cycle.</blockquote>I am more than willing to believe you! What you say makes total sense with what I have witnessed. I still see arguments between raid members on this, though, so if Windslasher could come right out and say it, it would be helpful to frustrated raid leaders as they can link his post to raid chat. And then macro it. Seriously.P.S. I just recently saw the test server fix where he won't heal up by killing group members. So I guess as of this morning on the live servers, he was healing that way too. Hopefully not for long.

Jrel

04-08-2011, 02:23 PM

When Goredeath is not bugged, he will only heal himself 0-2% during the times he is huge if no one is DPSing.Since last Tue or Thu, there has been a 1/4 chance of every SG PQ I've been in (every day) that Goredeath bugs out, and will heal himself from 90-95 to 100% in a matter of seconds (when No One is DPSing on him-except for the S-M), while 360 degree AOEing everyone. When people burn him down to 90% or below from 100, and he grows large again, he will re-heal to 100% in a few seconds. One time, we watched as we let the Siege-Marshal drop to 1% health, then it healed himself back up to 100% (which continued for 30 minutes until the encounter broke).Then, of course, you have multiple people in zone and raid complaining that the raiders are screwing up when it is actually Goredeath that is the issue. 25% chance now that Goredeath does this, and it is regardless if the raid is good/fail.

Wurm

04-08-2011, 02:52 PM

<cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite><blockquote>And please find out why people are getting one shot while on the other side of the area and while standing behind him.</blockquote>His elemental AoE is a full 360, and has a signifigant radius, standing behind him is not safe. Don't know about 'other side of the area' though. I know people complain about it, but I've never seen it personally, so I don't have a good sense of the extent of it's range. (ie, at max casting range, it's never hit me, but that doesn't mean it's not a valid complaint).</blockquote>The other side of the area is all the way on the other side of the wall while tanking the 4 X3 Here is a crude picture facing the wall and note we are far enough directly forward of the pictured location to give the people rezzing enough room.My group and X3-------------------------------------------------[ door ]-------------------------------------------------------------------X4And sometimes BAM YOUR DEAD... regardless of how well geared you are are.

kdmorse

04-08-2011, 03:15 PM

<cite>Nyfe@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>When Goredeath is not bugged, he will only heal himself 0-2% during the times he is huge if no one is DPSing.Since last Tue or Thu, there has been a 1/4 chance of every SG PQ I've been in (every day) that Goredeath bugs out, and will heal himself from 90-95 to 100% in a matter of seconds (when No One is DPSing on him-except for the S-M), while 360 degree AOEing everyone. When people burn him down to 90% or below from 100, and he grows large again, he will re-heal to 100% in a few seconds. One time, we watched as we let the Siege-Marshal drop to 1% health, then it healed himself back up to 100% (which continued for 30 minutes until the encounter broke).Then, of course, you have multiple people in zone and raid complaining that the raiders are screwing up when it is actually Goredeath that is the issue. 25% chance now that Goredeath does this, and it is regardless if the raid is good/fail.</blockquote>I disagree with much of this post, but it's not worth the argument again.If you do not back out of AoE range off when he's large, he will heal. It has nothing to do with DPS.The argument gets silly:Bob: It's not me healing the mob, stop DPSing!Log: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsBob: It's not me healing the mob, stop DPSing!Raid: It is you bob, step backLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsBob: STOP DPSING Raid: Sigh.....

Maroger

04-08-2011, 03:51 PM

This is such a screwed up quest that I refuse to even do it anymore. I just skip it. I always here them begging for people to come but it is such a mess that I have totally stopped doing it.

Wurm

04-08-2011, 06:38 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is such a screwed up quest that I refuse to even do it anymore. I just skip it. I always here them begging for people to come but it is such a mess that I have totally stopped doing it.</blockquote>Yeah... the extra 1000 faction a day isn't worth the hassle. I've already ran out of overland stuff to do except grind faction, and I'm sick to death of that.

Mystfit

04-08-2011, 10:07 PM

Except for the part where the two mobs tend to get locked in mortal combat now and again, the quest itself isn't screwed up, it's people's ability to comprehend the simplest of scripts. If people can't do this, they shouldn't try raiding....

kdmorse

04-08-2011, 10:43 PM

<cite>Mystfit wrote:</cite><blockquote>Except for the part where the two mobs tend to get locked in mortal combat now and again, the quest itself isn't screwed up, it's people's ability to comprehend the simplest of scripts. If people can't do this, they shouldn't try raiding....</blockquote>I agree. (Extra bonus fun when they get locked in mortal combat on top of the supply runner)I tested different ranges out today. The elemental aoe can hit me at at least max range for rays, at 56m. But I agree with what someone else said, he seems to AoE a less when you're activly DPSing him. I don't know if it's mob mechanics, or just natural interrupts, but if nobody's whacking him (everyone is concentrated on the Riders), he blasts his AoE far and often... But getting hit by the Elemental AoE doesn't seem to heal him. Healing appears to be in response to melee AoE's only (need to doublecheck my logs to be sure).But.........Once you've got your gear, the reward for getting the x4, and not getting the x4 is essentially the same. I get my two cloudy jewels either way. If we fail the x4, the final wave only takes 2 minutes. And thus I find myself happier when the raid fails, and that's just fundamentally wrong. It's not that the x4 is too hard, or bugged... It's that the rewards for doing the x4 aren't really any better than the heroic riders, there's little incentive to want to slog through it.

Jrel

04-09-2011, 02:14 PM

Had both a non-bugged and a buggy one today.

Jrel

04-09-2011, 02:33 PM

<cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nyfe@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>When Goredeath is not bugged, he will only heal himself 0-2% during the times he is huge if no one is DPSing.Since last Tue or Thu, there has been a 1/4 chance of every SG PQ I've been in (every day) that Goredeath bugs out, and will heal himself from 90-95 to 100% in a matter of seconds (when No One is DPSing on him-except for the S-M), while 360 degree AOEing everyone. When people burn him down to 90% or below from 100, and he grows large again, he will re-heal to 100% in a few seconds. One time, we watched as we let the Siege-Marshal drop to 1% health, then it healed himself back up to 100% (which continued for 30 minutes until the encounter broke).Then, of course, you have multiple people in zone and raid complaining that the raiders are screwing up when it is actually Goredeath that is the issue. 25% chance now that Goredeath does this, and it is regardless if the raid is good/fail.</blockquote>I disagree with much of this post, but it's not worth the argument again.If you do not back out of AoE range off when he's large, he will heal. It has nothing to do with DPS.The argument gets silly:Bob: It's not me healing the mob, stop DPSing!Log: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsBob: It's not me healing the mob, stop DPSing!Raid: It is you bob, step backLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsLog: Goredeth hits bob, Goredeth healsBob: STOP DPSING Raid: Sigh.....</blockquote>This is what I've seen:Since SG was lag-fixed, out of 4-6 PQs each day, half being SG:Easy mode (non-bugged?): Raid fights Lords behind Goredeath. Goredeath is not hitting everyone with the long-range 56-60% 360 degree 35+ m AOE. After Lords are dead, raid DPSes Goredeath when he is small. When he is huge, raid stops DPSing and Goredeath will only heal 0-2% of the time. Raid stays behind him and on the sides.Hard mode (Bugged?) (only FOUR times out of all the ones I've done): Raid must get far beyond 35m range to avoid Goredeath's crazy AOE while fighting the lords. Then when raid attempts to get close to Goredeath, gets blasted by the AoEs over and over, and healers go into overdrive. AOE does not stop while Gore is large/small. Siege-Marshal auto-heals himself, and encounter finally breaks after 26-30 minutes.And like I posted earlier, I've just been in a non-bugged and bugged one today.

kdmorse

04-09-2011, 06:47 PM

<cite>Nyfe@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is what I've seen:Since SG was lag-fixed, out of 4-6 PQs each day, half being SG:Easy mode (non-bugged?): Raid fights Lords behind Goredeath. Goredeath is not hitting everyone with the long-range 56-60% 360 degree 35+ m AOE. After Lords are dead, raid DPSes Goredeath when he is small. When he is huge, raid stops DPSing and Goredeath will only heal 0-2% of the time. Raid stays behind him and on the sides.Hard mode (Bugged?) (only FOUR times out of all the ones I've done): Raid must get far beyond 35m range to avoid Goredeath's crazy AOE while fighting the lords. Then when raid attempts to get close to Goredeath, gets blasted by the AoEs over and over, and healers go into overdrive. AOE does not stop while Gore is large/small. Siege-Marshal auto-heals himself, and encounter finally breaks after 26-30 minutes.And like I posted earlier, I've just been in a non-bugged and bugged one today.</blockquote>AoE frequency aside, I saw something odd during a /fail today. I need to go back to older raids and check the logs.Short version, every one of the siege marshals NPCs were standing in front of goredeth, and he was wacking them all every time, healing for 1.5M per NPC whack, and I don't remember seeing that before. Is it possible that the sometimes percieved dramatic increases in his healing rate is dependant on how many of the NPC's are up, and where they're standing?I expect the Siege Marshal to cause healing. Frequently there's one tank in there helping to keep Goredeth in place, and I expect some healing from him.But healing from 6 other NPC's was just insurmountable, he went right back up to 100% in a few seconds, no matter what the players were doing.(And of course we then all bickered about what was causing it, and everyone got annoyed, and just stopped DPSing period. Raid DPS, which was light to begin with, dropped to arround 25K total when he was small)Edit: And you said he autohealed. Is it possible his healer NPC's are up and keeping the SM alive? It's possible his NPC's are responsible for many of the 'bugged' effects you are seeing. Makes me wish we could burn them down and get them out of the way to see. Still dunnon about the elemental AoE though.

Jrel

04-11-2011, 11:01 AM

<cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Nyfe@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is what I've seen:Since SG was lag-fixed, out of 4-6 PQs each day, half being SG:Easy mode (non-bugged?): Raid fights Lords behind Goredeath. Goredeath is not hitting everyone with the long-range 56-60% 360 degree 35+ m AOE. After Lords are dead, raid DPSes Goredeath when he is small. When he is huge, raid stops DPSing and Goredeath will only heal 0-2% of the time. Raid stays behind him and on the sides.Hard mode (Bugged?) (only FOUR times out of all the ones I've done): Raid must get far beyond 35m range to avoid Goredeath's crazy AOE while fighting the lords. Then when raid attempts to get close to Goredeath, gets blasted by the AoEs over and over, and healers go into overdrive. AOE does not stop while Gore is large/small. Siege-Marshal auto-heals himself, and encounter finally breaks after 26-30 minutes.And like I posted earlier, I've just been in a non-bugged and bugged one today.</blockquote>AoE frequency aside, I saw something odd during a /fail today. I need to go back to older raids and check the logs.Short version, every one of the siege marshals NPCs were standing in front of goredeth, and he was wacking them all every time, healing for 1.5M per NPC whack, and I don't remember seeing that before. Is it possible that the sometimes percieved dramatic increases in his healing rate is dependant on how many of the NPC's are up, and where they're standing?I expect the Siege Marshal to cause healing. Frequently there's one tank in there helping to keep Goredeth in place, and I expect some healing from him.But healing from 6 other NPC's was just insurmountable, he went right back up to 100% in a few seconds, no matter what the players were doing.(And of course we then all bickered about what was causing it, and everyone got annoyed, and just stopped DPSing period. Raid DPS, which was light to begin with, dropped to arround 25K total when he was small)Edit: And you said he autohealed. Is it possible his healer NPC's are up and keeping the SM alive? It's possible his NPC's are responsible for many of the 'bugged' effects you are seeing. Makes me wish we could burn them down and get them out of the way to see. Still dunnon about the elemental AoE though.</blockquote>What I meant by auto-healed was all the other dwarves were dead, except for the Siege-Marshall, whose health would drop to 1% (because no one was curing it) and then would rise to 100 in about 3 chunks (not like the triage heal).