Level 100 in 2012 [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

View Full Version : Level 100 in 2012

S_M_I_T_E

04-06-2011, 08:59 PM

In 2012 when the level cap goes up don't put the treadmill on too high of a speed. Everyone left is EQ2 Vets. Those with tons of time and those with less. 1. Don't simultaneously kick people in the stomach with 91-100 grind, 50 AA to get (if you already have 300), new gear to get (you know, one shotted if you don't have), new Adept III's at 30p rares (started in SF, it used to be 3p-ish for endtier rares in ROK). The way money is "trickled down" should be reconsidered. SF knocked us back to the stone age in crafting with rare prices and rare harvest rates._ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _1a) SF had solo content to 87. Let there be enough solo content to 100.1b) 50 AA more to go. It's ok if you walk in with 300 but what about people coming back or alts with 150 or less? There is no more grey sharding or RAFing to get stuff at a decent rate. Will character be able to "trade" AA like they can plat within an account? My eyes want to fall out thinking of making a new alt.1c) New gear mechanics shouldn't 100% exclude people who don't swim completely in all the new content. Faction bottlenecks should be used sparingly.1d) Starting in SF end teir rares were 25p early in the level cap rise and "settled" to 15p by summer. This made alt twinking expensive, poorer casual players (not I) /rage on the forums and lvl chat, and crafters passively serving the masses with "Diner Dash Stores" loose our shirts with low margin- low turnover created items. The end teir rares should stay below the psycholgically important 10p level upon launch and 5p by summer. 1e) Domino has made profitable tradeskilling more about being an active tradeskiller with faction receipes and commission work. 30p rares are going cause outratge unless we all get 5p for killing crabs on the beach. I'm still cruising on "Old ROK money" and have no idea where my income is going to match my future expenditure when the level cap goes up yet again. Anti-bot banning harvesting made people stop harvesting as much and the "margin" level of rare to finished product and turnover rate makes crafting unattractive for high volume passive wealth transfer. A PR run is more plat/hr or SLR. People weren't making crafters because they were too hard to level up (i ground that carpenter up the hard way) it that that crafters' margins were deflated when rares shot up and customers pocketbooks didnt match. Like people with degrees who don't get big paying jobs and everyone else in the pipe quits before also getting the degree since they see the same. Same concept._ _ _ _ _Pick a couple of these things but not all of them at once. If you think you have problems with "participation" in Kraek Drael in DOV, you might have some problems with people NOT leveling up from 90/300 DOV gear. Doing all that at the same time is just too much work. That work will only be a "1 week speed bump" to hardcore players who play many hours. 90/250 at once in SF and new shard gear was just too much. Add in the high price to adept III / master out and the forums had much rage at the time. I know if my girlfriend hadn't "made hay while the sun shone" as a Sage for me in ROK/TSO I woulda given up long ago from being financially unable to particapate in the game. 25 INQ masters = 2500p prolly. Add the new adorns as we level up in gear along the way and you just won't have jack. 25 INQ adept IIII's at 30p per rare = 750p alone. That we get free master / month equilbrates the old 600p dispatch problems but 30p rares screw everyone.DOV has too many bottlenecks and even your hard core audience is saying no en-masse. SF lost quite a few of your casuals not because it was "too easy." The 2012 exp needs less "punishment" and more "reward." Don't knock people backwards. Don't bankrupt them. Don't force them to waste their time greysharding,rafing,etc. for xp, aaxp, or shards. Things shouldn't cost so much that they have to cheat your game.2c

Barx

04-07-2011, 12:48 AM

So much in that post is either not true or misleading.There's lots of folks in EQ2 that aren't Vets -- there's a good amount of those and people coming back to the game but there is still the occasional new people coming in. The population is pretty stable from what I've seen.SF had enough content to get you to 90. The solo quests only got you to 87~88 (bit higher after they added the "box" quests) but so what? It wasn't that much harder for a soloer to do those last few levels grinding or they could always go and group.As for AA... that's what grind spots are for. There's the slow way to get AA (doing quests over the tiers, etc.) and then there's the fast way (grinding zones like the Hole). With a level cap raise it'll probably be trivial to grind AA in the hole or (depending on gear-flation) even KD at that point.Rare prices... the value of a plat goes down with each expansion as quest rewards and drops go up. At the start of the expansion its all supply and demand as well, so you're going to see high prices. That's just how the market works.

S_M_I_T_E

04-07-2011, 12:54 AM

<cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>So much in that post is either not true or misleading.</blockquote>We're each entitled to our opinions. I remember the level chats and forums in SF. Very negative.I didn't say EVERYONE had that experience I said lots of people did. Many people exploited grey sharding and RAF. Why did they? Was it my imagination? Is a new 300AA character doable in 60 hours of non-perfect max playing? No way.The difference between the earned income soloing and the rare:crafted product margin did change in SF.The level cap, aa raises, gear resets, you name it did occur. Those aren't falsehoods.

kdmorse

04-07-2011, 01:36 AM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote>We're each entitled to our opinions. I remember the level chats and forums in SF. Very negative.I didn't say EVERYONE had that experience I said lots of people did. Many people exploited grey sharding and RAF. Why did they? Was it my imagination? Is a new 300AA character doable in 60 hours of non-perfect max playing? No way.The difference between the earned income soloing and the rare:crafted product margin did change in SF.</blockquote>Fair enough, we are entitled to our opinions. But I certainly strongly disagree with your OP on many levels.I look forward to the next expansion where I will have the opportunity to level, gain AA, and master new spells, all things I cannot do in DoV. DoV throws AA at us like candy, and all that leaves throughout the entire expansion to develop is gear (and the gear progression is bland at best). I miss looting spells I can use. I miss having a use for rares. I miss leveling. I miss gaining AA. Give us more paths to develop a character at once, and we won't be done with everything but gear in the first month. I also don't agree with you regarding tradeskill profits, they went up in SF dramatically. DoV, not so much, as there was no new spells or crafter gear, but they stay respectable. (New levels and new spells are a good thing for crafters.)SF was the fastest time to level cap I've ever seen. Run errands to 87. New errands are put into game, run errands to 90. Or just cruise from 87 to 90 via disco xp in instances. It really, really doesn't need to be made even faster.The high price of rares is only a problem if you decide not to harvest anything yourself. Those that do harvest, reap the benefits of being on the right side of the supply/demand curve. And increased rare prices result in increased per crafting profit for experts.The same is true for Masters. If you have the plat, and want to buy them all off the broker, more power too you. But for those that don't, go out and get some yourself. Sell the ones you get for other classes, buy the ones you need. Be on the right side (or both sides) of the supply/demand curve. But you seem to want to buy them all, you want them all immediatly, but aren't willing to either get any yourself, or earn the plat it takes to buy them?And expansion lasts 12 months. You don't need to be fully geared, mastered, AA'd, and Leveled the first week. And if you ask SOE to put fewer things to do in the next expansion, you're going to have some people disagreeing with you.

S_M_I_T_E

04-07-2011, 02:15 AM

<cite>I made it more more 'eyore' friendly... </cite><cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote>1a) SF had solo content to 87. Let there be enough solo content to 100.This isn't debatable. The hole was required to get to 90 unless you abused low level quests the first week until they "fixed" it. I won't try and convince you or anyone else if you're determined to pretend it didn't happen. I still hope the managers don't think it's a good idea to bottleneck like that again.1b) 50 AA more to go. It's ok if you walk in with 300 but what about people coming back or alts with 150 or less? There is no more grey sharding or RAFing to get stuff at a decent rate. Will character be able to "trade" AA like they can plat within an account? My eyes want to fall out thinking of making a new alt.Getting to 300 AA from 150 is rough without the old "SOE approved" and designed "exploits." Whenever it goes up it won't affect people near the cap but alts and others will have a time sink to get that part of the adventure up. If AA was so cake and natural people wouldn't have exploited en masse. Why did they leave these exploits in so long is the better question... Grinding spots? Don't make me laugh. Grey sharding was the most efficient use of time per AA in TSO. If it wasn't everyone wouldn't have done it. Grinding 120 to 200 solo took me 3.5 months of 5 days a week at ~2hrs a day. Using "sanctioned boxing".... That was outrageous. RAF was also unbelievable. I was a late adopter of both trends as I couldn't beat em so I joined em. 1c) New gear mechanics shouldn't 100% exclude people who don't swim completely in all the new content. Faction bottlenecks should be used sparingly.So in DOV I can run instances in my SF T2 gear? Oh wait I need to /reboot in Otter/PQ gear? Perhaps this is false? As a betting individual I put the odds high the /reboot will occur more heavy handedly every expansion out from here.1d) Starting in SF end teir rares were 25p early in the level cap rise and "settled" to 15p by summer. This made alt twinking expensive, poorer casual players (not I) /rage on the forums and lvl chat, and crafters passively serving the masses with "Diner Dash Stores" loose our shirts with low margin- low turnover created items. The end teir rares should stay below the psycholgically important 10p level upon launch and 5p by summer. This is fact for me. These prices changed by THAT MUCH. Supply of rares went down partly because drop rates were reduced on purpose AND anti-botting programs got players to stop harvesting or afraid to harvest. It wasn't because the server was brimming. ROK launch was brimming. Supply was manipulated to artificially suck old plat out of the system. But PR plat runs continue, but hey you bot rares you are banned... that's consistent...1e) Domino has made profitable tradeskilling more about being an active tradeskiller with faction receipes and commission work. 30p rares are going cause outratge unless we all get 5p for killing crabs on the beach. I'm still cruising on "Old ROK money" and have no idea where my income is going to match my future expenditure when the level cap goes up yet again. Anti-bot banning harvesting made people stop harvesting as much and the "margin" level of rare to finished product and turnover rate makes crafting unattractive for high volume passive wealth transfer. A PR run is more plat/hr or SLR. People weren't making crafters because they were too hard to level up (i ground that carpenter up the hard way) it that that crafters' margins were deflated when rares shot up and customers pocketbooks didnt match. Like people with degrees who don't get big paying jobs and everyone else in the pipe quits before also getting the degree since they see the same. Same concept.This is my opinion based on my experience on a very populated server. My beef with prices was that supply was manipulated in the code to be rarer than it usually was. It was told to us on several occasions.</blockquote>Additionally, the original post is just my "suggestion" of why EQ2 feels grindy on occasion and why they only have a certain subset of the population of people who play MMOs. Yeah the populations feel stable because people who like EQ2 will play it till design breaches their tolerance level. The most dedicated EQ2-ers are still here now with trickle in. Where's all those ROK people? Where'd they go? I bet $ ROK server populations > DOV server populations and it has less to do with the age of the game than the barrier it takes to participate at endgame. The tailchasing is getting excessive. DOV is a rough place. I walked in T2 SF 250 fully mastered enervated with a cushion of old plat and I'd say I'm treading water. As in, it's been fun so far but "holy moley" I couldn't imagine some poor alt or poor sap trying to do anything without being pegged. Running an alt with 180 AA in Mastercrafted and Adept I/III's through DOV would be almost as frustrating as being on a PvP server vs geared and experienced players. What caught my eye the most was the DOV solo line plat was just about equal to the adornments I bought all the way up. That was by design not accident. So is DOV fun and still challenging on my heroic twink main? Yeah it's feels just about right so far. [ Positive Advertisement for DOV ]Would I want to make new alts or bring old alts up to speed to play DOV? Don't make me laugh...<insert highly negative commentary here> I'll wait till they tone it down alot. EQ2 is fast becoming the old EQ1. Alts need not apply. Only immortals need apply to DOV zones and they better bring demigods with them.Do I want to even think about level 100, 350 AA, a complete gear reset, a complete 3K in plat I'd need to "come up with" all at once next exp pac on my main? Makes me quiver thinking about the grind to get back to even if they kick us all in the face all at once via 5 different mechanisms. Do I think making a thread will cause perhaps a consideration of the consequences of implementing every bottleneck trick in the book before the next exp pack exists? Perhaps. All I'm saying is not to do ALL of it all at once.Maybe this time I'll play in Beta next exp pack, learn the exploits, use the exploits left in the first 5 days of launch to let the real raiders get to raiding then close them for the rest of the population. It was my imagination that people used the SF Hole to AAXP to 300 AA faster than intended right? They didn't reduce the XP until after some of the popuation "did it" right? That's so untrue right? Same deliberate loopholes happened in ROK. They slam that Gaige fellow for gettin his flying mount early? Please, that's not an exploit worthy of slamming someone he just fell into a trap they left for people like him to show corporate action. Those early launch AAXP or XP exploits are worthy of roll backs or suspensions. I remember the gnomish stilts they "hot fixed" quick when people were jumping across zones. Now that we all can fly perhaps rolling back the stilts to pre-nerf levels could give below lvl 86 people a way experience "kinda flying" with no real effort on their part. Betcha would be real popular below level 30 in EQ2X. Point is whatever is "important" changes depending on who's driving the EQ2 bus.Am I having a positive experience in DOV atm? Yeah, don't let the negativity in the post fool you (or anyone else). Am I worried about the time investment I may make this year in EQ2 and what that means for next year? Yeah I'm a little concerned I won't be able to keep up next year unless I go on the unemployment rolls if the design team keeps cranking the nut tighter and tighter like they have in DOV. All I have to say is I'm very glad I quit in Dec and didn't grind out 1800 BG tokens to find out I need Otter gear. What a waste of my life that woulda been... Do I like EQ2 content? Yeah the "rest" of the game is awesome and no game on the market can compare content wise. But eventually I just won't have the time to play "chase my tail" for 3 months every year to get to the point where I smell the flowers. Will I /unsub... probably not for those reasons when it happens. Will my particiaption at endgame decrease or cease altogether at level 100, 110, etc.? Possibly. Like the workforce partcipation rate is decreaseing the endgame participation will drop in EQ2. Think DOV conteseted dungeon has low use? Wait till some people just stop leveling/gear/aa whatever when it's just too much work.

kdmorse

04-07-2011, 02:42 AM

Regarding gear, I'm just as annoyed as a mechanics based forced reset as you are. Should new gear be more desireable than old gear, of course. But the whole "we want you to throw out all your existing gear on day 1, here have some bland legendary gear with the required stat, everything else is worthless" aspect in DoV was a bit much. All we can do is hope this is the last time they do a gear reboot.If you're talking about requiring the hole to 'solo' to 90 the first week, that's not a matter of debate either. But only relevant to people who are 100% anti-group, and anti-instance. Solo to 87, instance to 90. I'm just not convinced that that's even a bad thing, just a difference of opinion.As to the rest, I guess we just disagree on how Fast one is expected to accomplish all other things. I honestly feel it's too fast. You honestly feel it's too slow. We just disagree.At DoV launch many of my guildies broke out alts that had just about 150AA. (Altaholics, the lot of them!) They're working their way up now through regular play, about at 250 now. Probably be 300 in the next month. That just doesn't seem out of line to me.Can't argue with a price of rares going up in SF, it happened. But I disagree it was a bad thing. It increased profits across the board, for direct sellers, and for secondary markets (scholars). The only downside was to those that *just* wanted to buy everything with plat.But specifically, you said:Do I want to even think about level 100, 350 AA, a complete gear reset, a complete 3K in plat I'd need to "come up with" all at once next exp pac on my main? Makes me quiver thinking about the grind to get back to even if they kick us all in the face all at once via 5 different mechanisms. And I just don't agree. Raising the Level cap, raising the AA cap, providing new spells, new rares, and new masters, is not a 'kick in the face'. It's more things to do, and it's a good thing. (My opinion obviously). Otherwise, the entire game would become stagnant, with minimal avenus for character growth. (ie - gear, gear, and only gear). Obviously we disagree, and that's fine. Every other year you get one expansion you like (DoV, etc..), and I get one I like (SF, etc).

S_M_I_T_E

04-07-2011, 02:53 AM

<cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote>We're each entitled to our opinions. I remember the level chats and forums in SF. Very negative.I didn't say EVERYONE had that experience I said lots of people did. Many people exploited grey sharding and RAF. Why did they? Was it my imagination? Is a new 300AA character doable in 60 hours of non-perfect max playing? No way.The difference between the earned income soloing and the rare:crafted product margin did change in SF.</blockquote>Fair enough, we are entitled to our opinions. But I certainly strongly disagree with your OP on many levels.I look forward to the next expansion where I will have the opportunity to level, gain AA, and master new spells, all things I cannot do in DoV. DoV throws AA at us like candy, and all that leaves throughout the entire expansion to develop is gear (and the gear progression is bland at best). I miss looting spells I can use. I miss having a use for rares. I miss leveling. I miss gaining AA. Give us more paths to develop a character at once, and we won't be done with everything but gear in the first month. I also don't agree with you regarding tradeskill profits, they went up in SF dramatically. DoV, not so much, as there was no new spells or crafter gear, but they stay respectable. (New levels and new spells are a good thing for crafters.)SF was the fastest time to level cap I've ever seen. Run errands to 87. New errands are put into game, run errands to 90. Or just cruise from 87 to 90 via disco xp in instances. It really, really doesn't need to be made even faster.The high price of rares is only a problem if you decide not to harvest anything yourself. Those that do harvest, reap the benefits of being on the right side of the supply/demand curve. And increased rare prices result in increased per crafting profit for experts. The same is true for Masters. If you have the plat, and want to buy them all off the broker, more power too you. But for those that don't, go out and get some yourself. Sell the ones you get for other classes, buy the ones you need. Be on the right side (or both sides) of the supply/demand curve. But you seem to want to buy them all, you want them all immediatly, but aren't willing to either get any yourself, or earn the plat it takes to buy them?And expansion lasts 12 months. You don't need to be fully geared, mastered, AA'd, and Leveled the first week. And if you ask SOE to put fewer things to do in the next expansion, you're going to have some people disagreeing with you.</blockquote>Perhaps framing could help see where I'm coming from...I know I was turning over 40-70 spells a week at 3.5 plat a pop with 1.5p invested per. That's what 80-140p in profit per week for months on end from ROK launch to just before SF launch. That was roughly 2 RL hours a week to maintain. Do you have suggestions on how I can make 100p in under 2hrs a week 100% salary style? (Not sarcastic) Plat per hour. SF is not better for me.ex: SF launches I pop up spells for 28p at 25p rares and they sit. This was in the first weeks. The turnover just never came back and I watched the forums and level chats light up at rare prices. My customers just didn't have the plat to buy in volume anymore. Rares drift down to 15p and that's 400p just lit on fire, good thing I had several thousand just chillin pre-25 master buying at 100 a pop. I mean if you made 300K in RL at 45hrs a week you won't be willing to go back to BK and flip bugers at 6 an hour... I've got an Alchy, Carp, Jewl, and Sage pegged and alchy and jewl just dont' have that kind of margin. I don't have the time to level/grind adv resets and grind low margin items on those chars. High price rares were irrelvant for me at 5K plat, now I'm down to 1K since I made the mistake of trying to twink out for (2.5K) an 89BG char that got nerfed to oblivion. If my girlfriend hadn't made all those crafters and ran the store for 2 years for me I woulda quit out of frustration long ago. If people harvested and I got "commission" from call outs on the level chat was zero risk being a TS-er and the profit was comparable. But my /afk TS'ing experience was nerfed HARD. Active interaction tradeskilling = ok $, passive $ days are over. Who knows, maybe it was too good to be true. I put this info on the TS forums way back and got flamed worse than if I was on the FIRE site. Rare prices were always irrelevant to me personally. The price rise priced my customers into the "harvest themselves" and have their "guild crafters" do stuff for free.Anyways, my TSing days are over. If I hit a financial wall I'll just stop there as I don't have the time to force through it anymore.There are 2 groups of players. Those with lots of time and those with less. I think I remember Gungo cranking out ROK in under a week and someone asked him on the level chat "what the outside world looks like..." to which he said he "had no idea..." ROK was a 1 week speed bump for him and that type of player. His masters were reset but so what. DOV is hard. I can't imagine the next one just as hard and being slammed from 5 different directions at once. I just was hoping that they don't reset ALL 5 directions at once as those resets will be almost irrelevant for the hardest of the hardcore players.The Devs should be happy they've got DOV content so hard or so annoying that even their crazy hardcore play 10hrs a day audience wont' do it and tells everyone else not to. /hats off The loudest complainers for resets are people who like feelling that their time is more valuable than others. If people generally liked things to do no one would be complaining about DOV gear. I mean if ppl progress far enough there is a boost. Who cares if some legendary is slightly better than entry Raid... Late raid > all and nobody should be complaining. But they are in spades. Oversimplification? Yes. Wil the Devs cater to hardcore 1st, solo 2nd, and everyone else 3rd? They have for 6 years I don't see them changing it now.

S_M_I_T_E

04-07-2011, 02:57 AM

<cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Regarding gear, I'm just as annoyed as a mechanics based forced reset as you are. Should new gear be more desireable than old gear, of course. But the whole "we want you to throw out all your existing gear on day 1, here have some bland legendary gear with the required stat, everything else is worthless" aspect in DoV was a bit much. All we can do is hope this is the last time they do a gear reboot.If you're talking about requiring the hole to 'solo' to 90 the first week, that's not a matter of debate either. But only relevant to people who are 100% anti-group, and anti-instance. Solo to 87, instance to 90. I'm just not convinced that that's even a bad thing, just a difference of opinion.As to the rest, I guess we just disagree on how Fast one is expected to accomplish all other things. I honestly feel it's too fast. You honestly feel it's too slow. We just disagree.At DoV launch many of my guildies broke out alts that had just about 150AA. (Altaholics, the lot of them!) They're working their way up now through regular play, about at 250 now. Probably be 300 in the next month. That just doesn't seem out of line to me.Can't argue with a price of rares going up in SF, it happened. But I disagree it was a bad thing. It increased profits across the board, for direct sellers, and for secondary markets (scholars). The only downside was to those that *just* wanted to buy everything with plat.But specifically, you said:Do I want to even think about level 100, 350 AA, a complete gear reset, a complete 3K in plat I'd need to "come up with" all at once next exp pac on my main? Makes me quiver thinking about the grind to get back to even if they kick us all in the face all at once via 5 different mechanisms. And I just don't agree. Raising the Level cap, raising the AA cap, providing new spells, new rares, and new masters, is not a 'kick in the face'. It's more things to do, and it's a good thing. (My opinion obviously). Otherwise, the entire game would become stagnant, with minimal avenus for character growth. (ie - gear, gear, and only gear). Obviously we disagree, and that's fine. Every other year you get one expansion you like (DoV, etc..), and I get one I like (SF, etc).</blockquote>At least we're agreeing to disagree. Initiallly I just thought I completely failed to communicate or you were just roiling me up. But yeah level 100 and 350 incoming. We'll see how it works out. I know DOV servers just don't feel loaded like they did in ROK.

Tigress

04-07-2011, 12:35 PM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Barx@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>So much in that post is either not true or misleading.</blockquote>We're each entitled to our opinions. I remember the level chats and forums in SF. Very negative.I didn't say EVERYONE had that experience I said lots of people did. Many people exploited grey sharding and RAF. Why did they? Was it my imagination? Is a new 300AA character doable in 60 hours of non-perfect max playing? No way.The difference between the earned income soloing and the rare:crafted product margin did change in SF.The level cap, aa raises, gear resets, you name it did occur. Those aren't falsehoods.</blockquote>when you said that only vets are left, that was not true.

Banditman

04-07-2011, 01:01 PM

EQ2 isn't anywhere NEAR what EQ1 was / is with regards to alts. My alt Wizard is 90 / 250 with only 16 days /played. I mean, seriously? 16 days! From 0/0 to capped (prior to DoV) in 16 days!!

S_M_I_T_E

04-07-2011, 01:17 PM

<cite>Tigress wrote:</cite><blockquote>when you said that only vets are left, that was not true.</blockquote>How bout endgame 90's participating in DOV content are MOSTLY Vets? That better? Doesn't change the spirit of what I was saying when they come out with 100/350.

S_M_I_T_E

04-07-2011, 01:28 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ2 isn't anywhere NEAR what EQ1 was / is with regards to alts. My alt Wizard is 90 / 250 with only 16 days /played. I mean, seriously? 16 days! From 0/0 to capped (prior to DoV) in 16 days!!</blockquote>I like lots of your posts. Perhaps I misunderstood this one. So eq2 players says 16 elapsed days played on that character = 24hrs x 16 = 384 hrs for this Wiz alt of yours? That is a 48 days of 8 hr "workdays" 7 days a week spread over time.How many real life hours did it take of min/maxing EQ2 all the way up to do it? Did some of those 250 get done via grey sharding or RAFing pre DOV? You know the ins and out like I do. What about those coming back or starting over?How long does it take a brand new person or somone coming back from EOF/ROK to get to that now? Or a brand new non-powerleveled, non-twink character without plat who doesn't know all the "sweet spots" for progress on the way up?BG's is easy to criticize. We all know 90 gear = 2K shards "ish" and can calulate average tokens per match at 10-15 min per match and say "200 hrs later = done gearing." I walked away and said no thanks. They should have it "obvious" how many real life hours each "section" of their game takes solo/heroic/raid/hard raid. DOV took me 35hrs soloquest just to replace gear and get 265 walking in with 250. I'm not concerned about 300 in DOV. I'm just a little leery about next year. That was the spirit of my post.

Talathion

04-07-2011, 01:42 PM

Don't Feed the Trolls.

Iskandar

04-07-2011, 03:02 PM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><blockquote>This isn't debatable. The hole was required to get to 90 unless you abused low level quests the first week until they "fixed" it. I won't try and convince you or anyone else if you're determined to pretend it didn't happen. I still hope the managers don't think it's a good idea to bottleneck like that again.</blockquote></blockquote>Actually, I have five toons at 90 who would get disco if they went into the Hole right now. I may pop them in there to get them to 300 AA, since there's quite a few quests and named in there that will be mind-numbingly easy with the DoV gear and stats... but it was far from required to actually get any of them to 90. Heck, one of my toons dinged 90 in Crushbone Keep, of all places, while chronomentored down so I could skill up my transmuting! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" />

Lempo

04-07-2011, 03:36 PM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perhaps framing could help see where I'm coming from...I know I was turning over 40-70 spells a week at 3.5 plat a pop with 1.5p invested per. That's what 80-140p in profit per week for months on end from ROK launch to just before SF launch. That was roughly 2 RL hours a week to maintain. Do you have suggestions on how I can make 100p in under 2hrs a week 100% salary style? (Not sarcastic) Plat per hour. SF is not better for me.</blockquote>You can run OOA every day and pretty much do this, coupled with 3-4 man PR runs 2 times per week (might have to call it 2.5 to 3 hrs per week) it is EASILY 100-125 plat per week.I can take wizzy portal to Moors, fly to OOA finish the zone and call back to GH in under 12 mins. Yeilding 7-15 plat per run, plus the occasional (1-2 per week) level 80 master that drops from Vark.

Banditman

04-07-2011, 03:58 PM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perhaps I misunderstood this one. So eq2 players says 16 elapsed days played on that character = 24hrs x 16 = 384 hrs for this Wiz alt of yours? Correct. 16 days played is about 384 hours worth of "in game" time. I expect that I could simply level to 90 in about 3 days if I ignored AA, but I hate/detest grinding AA, which is absolutely everything in EQ1.That is a 48 days of 8 hr "workdays" 7 days a week spread over time.How many real life hours did it take of min/maxing EQ2 all the way up to do it? Did some of those 250 get done via grey sharding or RAFing pre DOV? You know the ins and out like I do. What about those coming back or starting over?I have one account. The Wizard did not group with anyone until L87 when I needed help on Epic Repercussions. No RAF. No SC potions or anything. Just good old fashioned playing the game. I definitely did level lock quite a bit to make sure that my AA's stayed where I wanted them in relation to my level.How long does it take a brand new person or somone coming back from EOF/ROK to get to that now? Or a brand new non-powerleveled, non-twink character without plat who doesn't know all the "sweet spots" for progress on the way up?There really isn't much need to twink characters nowadays. You earn a ton of money on the way up. I *may* have fed the Wizard 30 plat as I leveled him, but once he hit the RoK / TSO era stuff, he was very much self sufficient. You would be *shocked* to know what low level treasured gear sells for these days.BG's is easy to criticize. We all know 90 gear = 2K shards "ish" and can calulate average tokens per match at 10-15 min per match and say "200 hrs later = done gearing." I walked away and said no thanks. My Wizard has never seen a BG. I *did* hand over to him all the BG tokens that my Conjuror earned when he got to L90 so I could pick up a couple pieces of jewelry.They should have it "obvious" how many real life hours each "section" of their game takes solo/heroic/raid/hard raid. DOV took me 35hrs soloquest just to replace gear and get 265 walking in with 250. I'm not concerned about 300 in DOV. I agree, there is definitely not enough AA XP in DoV short of grinding to get anywhere near the AA cap, even entering at 250. I provided that very feedback numerous times during beta, along with many others. The *only* reason my Conjuror is at 299 right now is because I played him 16+ hours per day during the one double XP weekend we had.I'm just a little leery about next year. That was the spirit of my post. </blockquote>

S_M_I_T_E

04-07-2011, 04:18 PM

<cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perhaps framing could help see where I'm coming from... I know I was turning over 40-70 spells a week at 3.5 plat a pop with 1.5p invested per. That's what 80-140p in profit per week for months on end from ROK launch to just before SF launch. That was roughly 2 RL hours a week to maintain. Do you have suggestions on how I can make 100p in under 2hrs a week 100% salary style? (Not sarcastic) Plat per hour. SF is not better for me.</blockquote>You can run OOA every day and pretty much do this, coupled with 3-4 man PR runs 2 times per week (might have to call it 2.5 to 3 hrs per week) it is EASILY 100-125 plat per week.I can take wizzy portal to Moors, fly to OOA finish the zone and call back to GH in under 12 mins. Yeilding 7-15 plat per run, plus the occasional (1-2 per week) level 80 master that drops from Vark.</blockquote>Thanks for the pointers for Adventuring Plat per hour, but the context of my original question was given I have 4 level 90 crafters what's the best solo crafting way to make the same plat per hour I used to (Sage, Jewel, Alch, Carp). I already am aware of the PR runs. OOA I wasn't uber enough to solo as an INQ in SF maybe I'll try again.

Iskandar

04-07-2011, 06:44 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree, there is definitely not enough AA XP in DoV short of grinding to get anywhere near the AA cap, even entering at 250. I provided that very feedback numerous times during beta, along with many others. The *only* reason my Conjuror is at 299 right now is because I played him 16+ hours per day during the one double XP weekend we had.</blockquote>I had sort of the opposite experience, tho it could just be because of differences between our vitality/vet bonuses... both of my raid toons are at 298 right now (250 at DoV launch), and I'm actively trying to NOT max them at 300 just yet, just to have a little space for random quests and named kills for (hopefully) a month or two. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> When I finished the DoV questlines (including the shield HQ and all of the non-instance collections) I was somewhere around 280ish... maxxing my factions out (doing all of the daily repeatables from Othmir, Snowfang, and Ry'Gorr as well as one of each PQ every day) gave me about another 8-10ish AA (on PQs I also switched to the AA gems once I had a full set of gear)... and instances and raids (quests, collections, named kills, disco) and the Signature questlines got me the rest.Without any grinding or excessive playtime, I would have hit 300 a couple of weeks ago if I wasn't trying so hard to leave that little bit of AA breathing room -- all without exp pots or anything beyond the vet/vitality bonuses (I even missed the double exp weekend).About a month and a half to max out AA's doesn't seem all that bad to me... especially since a couple of my more aggressively-played guildies did it in a week or two <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" />The toon I'm currently running through DoV (my Necro) started with 225 AA and is at 234 after doing the Othmir and Snowfang quests and a few instances -- I'll see where she caps out at following the same pattern as the first two, tho I prolly won't be hitting PQ's daily for faction jewels with her (she doesn't mind if half the continent hates her... it just makes killing them all that much more satisfying <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

S_M_I_T_E

04-08-2011, 01:59 PM

<cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree, there is definitely not enough AA XP in DoV short of grinding to get anywhere near the AA cap, even entering at 250. I provided that very feedback numerous times during beta, along with many others. The *only* reason my Conjuror is at 299 right now is because I played him 16+ hours per day during the one double XP weekend we had.</blockquote>I had sort of the opposite experience, tho it could just be because of differences between our vitality/vet bonuses... both of my raid toons are at 298 right now (250 at DoV launch), and I'm actively trying to NOT max them at 300 just yet, just to have a little space for random quests and named kills for (hopefully) a month or two. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> When I finished the DoV questlines (including the shield HQ and all of the non-instance collections) I was somewhere around 280ish... maxxing my factions out (doing all of the daily repeatables from Othmir, Snowfang, and Ry'Gorr as well as one of each PQ every day) gave me about another 8-10ish AA (on PQs I also switched to the AA gems once I had a full set of gear)... and instances and raids (quests, collections, named kills, disco) and the Signature questlines got me the rest.Without any grinding or excessive playtime, I would have hit 300 a couple of weeks ago if I wasn't trying so hard to leave that little bit of AA breathing room -- all without exp pots or anything beyond the vet/vitality bonuses (I even missed the double exp weekend).About a month and a half to max out AA's doesn't seem all that bad to me... especially since a couple of my more aggressively-played guildies did it in a week or two <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" />The toon I'm currently running through DoV (my Necro) started with 225 AA and is at 234 after doing the Othmir and Snowfang quests and a few instances -- I'll see where she caps out at following the same pattern as the first two, tho I prolly won't be hitting PQ's daily for faction jewels with her (she doesn't mind if half the continent hates her... it just makes killing them all that much more satisfying <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I'm starting to experiment and I think the AA rate in DOV has been adjusted not to be TSO or SF grindy. I just assumed I was hosed when the quests were over like it was in the other 2 exp packs. The repeatables and PQs are a viable way to move forward.

MurFalad

04-08-2011, 04:09 PM

I think the recent experience with WoW: Cataclysm gives some pointers as for things to not do in your MMO, where they had so little content for high levels that someone could max level within a week casual playing.The same for SF, the journey should be good for to 100, I agree too that if we want to the solo questing should not run out at 97. I do hope therefore that Smokejumpers plan for improving the terrain generation tools is successful because I think a big large expansion with places to go would be great.Maybe though what we don't need (beyond completing Velious) is yet another continent?Maybe we could see the older lands revamped and maybe some of them become the new adventure areas? Especially if they could glue many of them together to give a Moors of Ykesha sized zone. And while an expansion where 80% of the content is just for low levels (WoW's mistake) I would like to see the path from 1 to max level relooked at again. Revitalising the dungeons, adding in PQ's and fixing the itemisation would really make the older game new for many of us.Still, buying some new servers and getting just a handful of the many designers working on various other games projects to fix and improve the game engine would be the ultimate result, then I think they could have something on their hands not just extended in life, but with potential to attract some serious numbers of more players for much less outlay then designing a new game from scratch.

Wurm

04-09-2011, 07:24 AM

S_M_I_T_E

04-09-2011, 11:27 AM

<cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite><blockquote>...glue many of them together to give a Moors of Ykesha sized zone. .</blockquote>I wouldn't mind it although I like ROK KP's sizing. I agree, they should think less about more areas and more about redoing- previous areas LS/EF style. MOY specifically is -20FPS for me (in worst spots it rolls to 13) on High Quality on a Quad 3.8 GHz Overclock on Air with a 4890 1 Gig and 8 Gigs of 1333MHz. DOV is nice since the only time I turn it down from High/Very high Quality at 33FPS is when PQ's start.If they redo Q/FP in time they could make it so PQ's in CL/Ant reward loot based on your actual level and auto-mentor 100s down and "dragon buff" up the 20's to match the 100's mentored with all their AA if they're determined to focus on new ppl's content for EQ2x while still giving stuf for all their levels to do. Barring that a PQ knocking on the doors of FP/Q just for 100's wouldn't be terrible either. As they keep adding PQ's they're going to have to deal with "critical mass" issues and probably reduce the timers 3x a day or whatever for older PQs.

Cocytus

04-10-2011, 02:53 PM

<cite>Talathion@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't Feed the Trolls.</blockquote>WITCH!!! witch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I love how everybody throws the word troll around like the salem witch hunters threw witch around.I agree with the OP though, here's not really a way for a single player to level an alt easily without doing some form of gaming the system.Me? I use a friend's raid geared character as one account and grind the living crap out of low end heroics for a quick gain.Now if I were to just play the game normally? Try to solo my way up?Good god, I'd shoot myself.Note: This mostly refers to AA count, not so much levels. I agree we should not be slammed by ALL OF IT AT ONCE. it honestly annoyed me when I heard in SF that BOTH caps were being raised.

gatrm

04-11-2011, 12:36 PM

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now if I were to just play the game normally? Try to solo my way up?</blockquote>OK....While this may be what the developers have tried to forced on us, this is not necessarily "normal". This is not what many people would prefer. Remember that there are people who would prefer to group to level up, not just soloquest. There has been one contested instance per level increase expansion that has allowed people to group to grind or to quest in order to level up. The Hole is not an exploit. The Hole allowed people who preferred to group and not do a soloquest grind to level up by grouping. The Hole is merely another dungeon along the lines of Sebelis and Sanctum of the Scaleborn to allow groups to level up. The original repeatable quests may have given too much xp, but that is something that should have been changed in beta- SOE has a bad habit of not listening to testers, and only changing things identified in beta after the fact.I hate the itemization in DoV....I hate that SOE has continually changed the gear since release of DOV. I still don't know if an item I will pull out of an instance will be an upgrade or not in the long run because SOE seems to be changing the gear weekly. OP:Your original complaints included problems making money tradeskilling. I haven't done much tradeskilling to sell on the broker in this expansion, but not because it is not profitable necessarily, but because I've been doing too many other things. The tradeskilling I am doing is either for the DoV questlines, which provide decent coin or making arrows or potions for my toons. As far as your expressed concerns with getting an alt to level, you seem to be forgetting all the other content available. Heck, during SF, I did the SF questlines on my main, but on the next two toons, I wound up getting most of my levels while chronomentoring in order to work up transmuting. There's lots of ways to get to max level and AA by playing the game. Just because some may be having a difficult time doing so, doesn't mean that it's too hard. And it doesn't mean that those who have an easy time of it are exploiting anything.Oh, and as far as TS rares costing more- yes they do, but they also sell for more. Go harvest if you don't want to spend the coin. If you do the quests, and all repeatables available to you, you can easily make more money than you spend. Even if you just do the repeatable tradeskilling quests, since you want to make money with tradeskills. Also, and you may already know this, but study your broker. Know what sells steadily and know what doesn't. Don't put tradeskilled items on the broker if that particular item is already flooded. Only put stuff up that isn't on the broker, to ensure more sales and higher profit. Also consider making low level items for appearance rather than just your current level recipes.

S_M_I_T_E

04-11-2011, 05:49 PM

<cite>gatrm wrote:</cite><blockquote>OP:1. Your original complaints included problems making money tradeskilling. I haven't done much tradeskilling to sell on the broker in this expansion, but not because it is not profitable necessarily, but because I've been doing too many other things. The tradeskilling I am doing is either for the DoV questlines, which provide decent coin or making arrows or potions for my toons. 2. As far as your expressed concerns with getting an alt to level, you seem to be forgetting all the other content available. Heck, during SF, I did the SF questlines on my main, but on the next two toons, I wound up getting most of my levels while chronomentoring in order to work up transmuting. There's lots of ways to get to max level and AA by playing the game. Just because some may be having a difficult time doing so, doesn't mean that it's too hard. And it doesn't mean that those who have an easy time of it are exploiting anything.3. Oh, and as far as TS rares costing more- yes they do, but they also sell for more. Go harvest if you don't want to spend the coin. If you do the quests, and all repeatables available to you, you can easily make more money than you spend. Even if you just do the repeatable tradeskilling quests, since you want to make money with tradeskills. 4. Also, and you may already know this, but study your broker. Know what sells steadily and know what doesn't. Don't put tradeskilled items on the broker if that particular item is already flooded. Only put stuff up that isn't on the broker, to ensure more sales and higher profit. Also consider making low level items for appearance rather than just your current level recipes.</blockquote>Thanks for your thoughtful response:1. My issue was that my "plat per 'real life' hour tradeskilling" went down. Comparing the "new" normal in tradeskilling it's like a Computer Programmer making 70K in Seattle for 45hrs of "bench time" at work moving to San Deigo to make 95K for 65hrs of "total work" time. Yeah the San Deigo worker makes 95K but "dollar per hour" the worker made "more" in Seattle even though the gross looks like more on paper. --> I used to make 50plat per hour in RL maintaining an AFK niche. The advantage was 2hrs a week = income. The disadvantage was I could make no more than that even if I spent more time. Now I have the potential for much larger GROSS plat income in EQ2 per week (true) but it would require a MUCH larger amount of my time I have for EQ2 just searching /working / commissioning / harvesting whatever that I can't do something else in RL or EQ2. Again, when I made 100p/week +/- 20p for 104 weeks in EQ2 from ROK to TSO why would I go back to 8 hrs of "money searching" in EQ2? OOA 5x a week looks like it's an exploit design mechanism worth looking into. 2. I don't have enough time to grind another max toon. I can't imagine some new person's starting point. I don't care about more alts personally. EQ2 gets 40hrs on an expansion launch for me to "force up" 1 character then I give it 10hrs a week. In 10hrs a week you can only do so much which is my issue with #1. I now have to adventure OR tradeskill. It didn't use to be that way. I used to be able to do BOTH on 10hrs a week. 2hrs of TSing and 8 hrs of playing.3. Harvesting is not something that's "100% for sure" per unit time invested. 4 hrs of harvesting may net 15 rares but they can come in "surges." Logging in to harvest for 2 hrs means something else isn't getting done and you might get jack for rares in that time window. Again, pretend you have 10hrs a week in total EQ2, harvesting isn't the most efficient use of your time for plat accumulation. Add in the fact that I was around when the anti-bot program was suspending real players while harvesting and you can understand my hesitancy to get suspended or banned.4. Lessons in Supply and demand are appreciated but uneccesary. There are very few niches left that aren't flooded. This has to do with mechanics changes in "adventure land" as well as BGs stalling out. Shake in server mergers and not alot of brand new people compared to the vets and you get where we're at. Everyone's a vet. The ratio of those who can to those who don't know how is smaller than it's ever been. They made rares so expensive starting in SF that the average player goes and harvests them themselves and then commissions products rather than buying the finished product. The old high volume AFK store niches are gone. The new faction receipes etc. are just more examples of the way the game is trending. More interaction, more relationships. That's fine, but I can't TS 15hrs a week and play 15hrs a week. EQ2 gets 10 as it always has. With the way these Adorns at 15p a pop keep being replaced everytime I get some marginal upgrade my cushion will be much smaller than I like. I'll just find some exploit design mechanism that I can use to pull plat from the monsters. It's faster than looking for people to interact with. I might be able to solo OOA now. I think I'll give that poster's suggestion a try.

S_M_I_T_E

04-11-2011, 05:52 PM

<cite>Cocytus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Note: This mostly refers to AA count, not so much levels. I agree we should not be slammed by ALL OF IT AT ONCE. it honestly annoyed me when I heard in SF that BOTH caps were being raised.</blockquote>I knew I wasn't the only one who felt that way.

S_M_I_T_E

04-11-2011, 06:00 PM

<cite>gatrm wrote:</cite><blockquote>OP:Stuff</blockquote>I almost forgot. My girlfriend "ran" the Tradeskillers and leveled them all up and loved the "niche store" thing. I pulled her away from diner dash to do it. She walked away in SF as the mechanics of tradeskilling profit turnover changed. She said, "It's a waste of my time..."My beef is EQ2 tradeskilling profit is now more proportional to "time spent" like adventuring "power" is proportional to "time spent." But hey, it could be worse. Rift copied WOW and has 48hr auctions that the seller has to pay to put an item up for that may not sell. That turned me off quick.

kdmorse

04-11-2011, 06:50 PM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the way these Adorns at 15p a pop keep being replaced everytime I get some marginal upgrade my cushion will be much smaller than I like.</blockquote>This is half snarky response, half honest suggestion: Make your own...The only thing keeping you on the wrong side of the profit curve regarding adornments is your own decision not to make them yourself. The only reason you're not profiting by AFK selling (bleck, what a horrible term) andornments, is because you choose not to.

Lempo

04-12-2011, 11:30 AM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>gatrm wrote:</cite>Thanks for your thoughtful response:1. My issue was that my "plat per 'real life' hour tradeskilling" went down. Comparing the "new" normal in tradeskilling it's like a Computer Programmer making 70K in Seattle for 45hrs of "bench time" at work moving to San Deigo to make 95K for 65hrs of "total work" time. Yeah the San Deigo worker makes 95K but "dollar per hour" the worker made "more" in Seattle even though the gross looks like more on paper. --> I used to make 50plat per hour in RL maintaining an AFK niche. The advantage was 2hrs a week = income. The disadvantage was I could make no more than that even if I spent more time. Now I have the potential for much larger GROSS plat income in EQ2 per week (true) but it would require a MUCH larger amount of my time I have for EQ2 just searching /working / commissioning / harvesting whatever that I can't do something else in RL or EQ2. Again, when I made 100p/week +/- 20p for 104 weeks in EQ2 from ROK to TSO why would I go back to 8 hrs of "money searching" in EQ2? OOA 5x a week looks like it's an exploit design mechanism worth looking into. ........That's fine, but I can't TS 15hrs a week and play 15hrs a week. EQ2 gets 10 as it always has. With the way these Adorns at 15p a pop keep being replaced everytime I get some marginal upgrade my cushion will be much smaller than I like. I'll just find some exploit design mechanism that I can use to pull plat from the monsters. It's faster than looking for people to interact with. I might be able to solo OOA now. I think I'll give that poster's suggestion a try.</blockquote> Your strike through font on the word exploit here makes you look foolish, it isn't an exploit in any sense of the word, the zone has a timer that can be reset evry 18 hours, kierax's chest drops plat, that's it, that is the zone.

S_M_I_T_E

04-12-2011, 03:31 PM

<cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is half snarky response, half honest suggestion: Make your own...The only thing keeping you on the wrong side of the profit curve regarding adornments is your own decision not to make them yourself. The only reason you're not profiting by AFK selling (bleck, what a horrible term) andornments, is because you choose not to. </blockquote>1. With only a 90 Sage, Jeweler, Carpenter, and Alchemist I don't have a "hat trick" of every TS class to make ALL adornments I'd need for all spots.2. If an adornment costs 15p to buy and 12p to make I don't care about the 3p saved. Even if I "made my own" they'd still cost me 12p for most of the whites. Making them won't save me money. It's not like the transmutable components are 2p and I'm buying adorns at 15p. If that was true it would be worth my time to make adorns.If I wanted to devote 2x as much EQ2 time I play now to just TSing I could be 100% self sufficient. Point is it's not worth my time and for the longest time I didn't have to.

S_M_I_T_E

04-12-2011, 03:42 PM

<cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote> Your strike through font on the word exploit here makes you look foolish, it isn't an exploit in any sense of the word, the zone has a timer that can be reset evry 18 hours, kierax's chest drops plat, that's it, that is the zone.</blockquote>My point is not every 90 can solo that for plat. It's not AA/EOE as the "HR" people would say. So some can do it and some can't. Only certain classes or certain classes with the right gear have access to that plat pinata. Right now, I may have just stepped into adventure "power" to enable plat farming so directly from the game for the first time. For example: They ban people for selling NPC items back to NPCs when servers get bugged updates to farm plat from the game, but if you show up once a day for 15min for something originally designed for 6 ppl to farm plat without participating in trickle down EQ2 economics that's ok. Or 4-way split something designed for 24 people. Why can't I expliot NPC bugs without being banned or suspended? It's the same thing. Free plat for no work or time spent. When something is the path of least resistance it's clearly broken. Grey sharding, check. RAF, check. OOA/PR, check. I blatantly criticize holes left in this game when other trivial onces are filled so quickly and without mercy. Inconsistent enforcement breeds sarcasm thus the "exploit." But we are all getting off the original topic of the thread which is Level, AA, Master, TS, etc. raised all at the same time is a little much when 100 inc.Edit for Update:Just tested the OOA "reward" mechanism as the other poster suggested. 15min total time for 10p. 7 days a week = 70 p for 1 3/4 hrs of playtime. This is ~ the same ratio I was getting (plat per RL hour) TSing for years. 280p per month per level 90 that can do it for a total of 7hrs per 280p. 100% no risk plat. Forget TSing. Forget harvesting. Plat farming > all.I now have my "old income" doing something of no value to the EQ2 economy. Shame it doesn't work in RL where when I need more money I can just "print" some more out of thin air in 10min.

Lempo

04-13-2011, 01:26 PM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ynnek@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>This is half snarky response, half honest suggestion: Make your own...The only thing keeping you on the wrong side of the profit curve regarding adornments is your own decision not to make them yourself. The only reason you're not profiting by AFK selling (bleck, what a horrible term) andornments, is because you choose not to. </blockquote>1. With only a 90 Sage, Jeweler, Carpenter, and Alchemist I don't have a "hat trick" of every TS class to make ALL adornments I'd need for all spots.2. If an adornment costs 15p to buy and 12p to make I don't care about the 3p saved. Even if I "made my own" they'd still cost me 12p for most of the whites. Making them won't save me money. It's not like the transmutable components are 2p and I'm buying adorns at 15p. If that was true it would be worth my time to make adorns.If I wanted to devote 2x as much EQ2 time I play now to just TSing I could be 100% self sufficient. Point is it's not worth my time and for the longest time I didn't have to.</blockquote>Unless there is something I am unaware of you can make all adornments, your TS class has absolutely nothing to do with it. So what if you multiply that 3 plat saved per adornment for every slot, then add the ones that get replaced possibly 2 or 3 times as you get gear upgrades, that adds up over time.

Lempo

04-13-2011, 01:51 PM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote> Your strike through font on the word exploit here makes you look foolish, it isn't an exploit in any sense of the word, the zone has a timer that can be reset evry 18 hours, kierax's chest drops plat, that's it, that is the zone.</blockquote>My point is not every 90 can solo that for plat. It's not AA/EOE as the "HR" people would say. So some can do it and some can't. Only certain classes or certain classes with the right gear have access to that plat pinata. Right now, I may have just stepped into adventure "power" to enable plat farming so directly from the game for the first time. For example: They ban people for selling NPC items back to NPCs when servers get bugged updates to farm plat from the game, but if you show up once a day for 15min for something originally designed for 6 ppl to farm plat without participating in trickle down EQ2 economics that's ok. Or 4-way split something designed for 24 people. Why can't I expliot NPC bugs without being banned or suspended? It's the same thing. Free plat for no work or time spent. When something is the path of least resistance it's clearly broken. Grey sharding, check. RAF, check. OOA/PR, check. I blatantly criticize holes left in this game when other trivial onces are filled so quickly and without mercy. Inconsistent enforcement breeds sarcasm thus the "exploit." But we are all getting off the original topic of the thread which is Level, AA, Master, TS, etc. raised all at the same time is a little much when 100 inc.Edit for Update:Just tested the OOA "reward" mechanism as the other poster suggested. 15min total time for 10p. 7 days a week = 70 p for 1 3/4 hrs of playtime. This is ~ the same ratio I was getting (plat per RL hour) TSing for years. 280p per month per level 90 that can do it for a total of 7hrs per 280p. 100% no risk plat. Forget TSing. Forget harvesting. Plat farming > all.I now have my "old income" doing something of no value to the EQ2 economy. Shame it doesn't work in RL where when I need more money I can just "print" some more out of thin air in 10min.</blockquote>Any class can solo OoA, granted some can solo it easier than others ALL classes have advantages over others situation depending. Your comparison over someone buying items over and over from an NPC and selling them back at a higher price is ridiculous, the zone was designed origially for 6 people, it could be done with 5 or 4 is that wrong too? you answered the question yourself, you CAN NOT EXPLOIT NPC BUGS AND NOT GET BANNED, you can however do zones WITHOUT EXPLOITING ANY BUG AND NO MORE OFTEN THAN THE LOCKOUT TIMER AND NOT GET BANNED.You have made no mention of any 'trivial' thing that got plugged, you are comparing apples and oranges with your examples o what you consider to be an exploit. You can run zones and sell loot, you can farm shinies, rares or whatever and sell them on the broker it is fair game there are plenty of ways to make plat in this game you seem to insist that you should be able to do it your'old' way and not adjust, that is not how an economy works, virtual or real.I make a few hundred plat a month off the broker, probably close to 75-100 per month from raiding then much more as we start selling more gear then whatever else trickles into my bags from making things for people. The plat just stacks up, it doesn't earn interest, I can't spend it IRL, I could care less about buying some LON loot card from someone that MIGHT have used a fradulent CC to buy the packs and have my account banned/suspended with some explaining to do further down the road, so i don't care about the plat that is not why I play the plat I have made from OoA and PR is still stacked in my account it has not been spent because the rewards that I have gotten from questing, killing and selling what I don't want/need on the broker or to vendor has more than covered my actualy expenses in game.

S_M_I_T_E

04-13-2011, 02:09 PM

<cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unless there is something I am unaware of you can make all adornments, your TS class has absolutely nothing to do with it.</blockquote>That could be possible I haven't looked into adornments for several years. Way back when Carpenters got secondary adorns among others while other classes got other spots. Perhaps it's been changed.

S_M_I_T_E

04-13-2011, 02:28 PM

<cite>Lempo@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>1. Any class can solo OoA, granted some can solo it easier than others ALL classes have advantages over others situation depending.2. Your comparison over someone buying items over and over from an NPC and selling them back at a higher price is ridiculous, the zone was designed origially for 6 people, it could be done with 5 or 4 is that wrong too? you answered the question yourself, you CAN NOT EXPLOIT NPC BUGS AND NOT GET BANNED, you can however do zones WITHOUT EXPLOITING ANY BUG AND NO MORE OFTEN THAN THE LOCKOUT TIMER AND NOT GET BANNED.3. You have made no mention of any 'trivial' thing that got plugged, you are comparing apples and oranges with your examples o what you consider to be an exploit.</blockquote>1. So a 90 SF treasured caster with 120 AA can solo OOA? I think they'd have a hard time DPSing the name down before the balls hit the name. Any class with 250+ in PQ DOV gear can solo OOA yes, with melees having an advantage of DPSing while ball preventing.2. If it's "in the game" it's designed to be there. NPC vendor bug is only a "bug" if they say it is. If they put it on live it's their fault not the players. It just is inconsistent that I can press buttons for NPC vendor exploit for 15 min and pull 10p but that's not ok, but if I've been around long enough and have a powered up enough character I can press combat buttons for 15 min and get 10p in a zone. Looks the same to me. Press buttons for 15 min and 10p pops into existence.Why not get 10p per 15 min from talking with the goblin gambler once a day on an 18 hr lockout? It's just as rediculous. I have no idea why they have designed plat proportional to time played. But I can play their game and game it.I'm done bantering about how to get plat in EQ2 as it's derailing the thread. I've now got a solution that works for me, OOA. You have a solution that works for you with your playtime you have which is greater than mine.3. Hole AA XP upon 5 days of launch of DOV, lower quest level xp upon turning in was nerfed 1st week of launch of SF, Pet Iron Golem used for "tanking" zones in ROK early days ( as well as XP nerfs after the first week or so), etc. These are "trivial" things that got plugged for the population who were still coming up the curve. These things are more directly gripes about how XP bugs are always abused then closed every exp pack and are more appropriate as complaints for Level 100 incoming. Am I going to power up the 1st week and abuse every bug I find inc level 100? If I'm still here... absolutely. Afterall they leave them in on purpose so the raiders can get to raiding as fast as possible. No company is that incompetent expansion after expansion and these bugs are intentionally left in and then closed.