DOV - Raid Drop Chances

[Yimway]

<p>I'm going to go out on a limb and say the code is something insane like:</p><p>25% - Fighter pattern</p><p>25% - Scout pattern</p><p>25% - Mage patterm</p><p>25% - Priest pattern</p><p>-----------------------------</p><p>What we're seeing so far is indicating a distribution that looks like this, the resut is fighter items are already being muted and priests who compromise the highest segment of players on a raid are getting the shaft.</p><p>I know very few guilds running these zones without 33% of the raid being priests, and only 8-12% are fighters...</p>

[NaeenSpeedbringer]

<p>we already have signifcant numbers of fighter alts with gear and we will start selling it to the server soon.  meanwhile, 50% of the raid force is missing the equivalent to those fighter pieces that we will be selling.  i'm all for gearing fighters quickly since taking a beating from mobs is very gear dependant, but it is a little ridiculous at the moment.  if it is truly 25% per archtype right now, it needs to be adjusted... it certainly seems that way.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>This again.</p><p>Yea, it's completely ridiculous.  There is a mechanic in place to deal with this, and yet SOE is as stupidly reluctant as ever to use it.  Hi there Smartloot, I'm lookin' at you.</p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p>only problem with smartloot is it takes the % that needs them and drops them that way, so say you have 3 fighters, 8 healers, 7 scouts and 6 mages.... fighters will be last to get geared up because there will be higher % chance for the other classes to get their stuff.... and well tanks die and most of the time there goes the raid.... just bad luck you guys are getting. my guild cant stop getting healer/mage crap... just bad luck. had nights where it was just scout/healer too.... got all 3 of our tanks there pieces and have not seen them since (took about 2 or 3 weeks to do that raiding zones 2 times a week) all just luck....</p>

[Yimway]

<p>We're seeing a very even distribution on paterns (please limit your feedback to archtype patterns), the problem being these archtypes are of course not represented evenly on raid rosters.</p><p>I'd love to be wrong about it being 25% chance for each of the 4 archtypes, but the data I have combined with the data from other guild leaders I've networked with indicates an over-distribution to fighters and an under-distribution to priests.</p><p>I'm not advocating smart loot per see either.  Hell, maybe it should over-reward fighters for the first few weeks of expansion for obvious reasons, but it isn't sustainable as it is.  That is to say its hindering the 'fun' for many people and over-rewarding a minority.</p>

[kiku]

<p>Really, we get more Priest/Mage then anything else. Took forever for second fighter to get geared. Our third tank (only used sometimes) has 0 items. Please dont nerf the drop further.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>So many patterns drop though that its a total non-issue.  HM mobs drop 3 patterns per.  It takes no time at all to gear up unless you're extremely unlucky.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So many patterns drop though that its a total non-issue.  HM mobs drop 3 patterns per.  It takes no time at all to gear up unless you're extremely unlucky.</p></blockquote><p>I can agree on HM drops.  The number of drops sorta seeds things better, but aren't you also seeing the same thing, fighter alts getting slots that mains don't have?</p>

[ShadyCharacter]

I don't think anyone is advocating 100% smart loot. Just a decent chance at it to skew the drop rate in the right direction. 100% smart loot for example could make it hard to gear out alts if your alt list is radically different to your main raid roster. While alts are obviously not as important as mains they are a concern and will be more so 6 months down the track.

[Frain]

<p>From release this is how many items we've got from raids so far for each archtype</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Fighter</span></strong>       <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Mage </span></strong>        <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Scout</span></strong>        <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Healer </span></strong>  55               49              51              45</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm going to go out on a limb and say the code is something insane like:</p><p>25% - Fighter pattern</p><p>25% - Scout pattern</p><p>25% - Mage patterm</p><p>25% - Priest pattern</p><p>-----------------------------</p><p>What we're seeing so far is indicating a distribution that looks like this, the resut is fighter items are already being muted and priests who compromise the highest segment of players on a raid are getting the shaft.</p><p>I know very few guilds running these zones without 33% of the raid being priests, and only 8-12% are fighters...</p></blockquote><p>See I saw it different at the start of the expansion.   Fighter drops were extremely rare.   After 5 weeks of raiding, I only had one single piece of armor.  Maybe my case was rare, I dunno, but I certainly didn't see 25% fighter drop-rate.  </p><p>  And let me say that it's probably a double edged sword.   If you lower the fighter drop chance, then you increase your chances of having REALLY bad luck, and your tanks not getting gear, and if your tanks don't have gear, their survivability goes down and you have a much much harder time getting any further gear.   Having been in that situation early this expansion I tell you it's not fun.   25% for each archtype sounds about as close to fair as you can come unless you go with a high smart loot chance.  </p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>We're seeing a very even distribution on paterns (please limit your feedback to archtype patterns), the problem being these archtypes are of course not represented evenly on raid rosters.</p><p>I'd love to be wrong about it being 25% chance for each of the 4 archtypes, but the data I have combined with the data from other guild leaders I've networked with indicates an over-distribution to fighters and an under-distribution to priests.</p><p>I'm not advocating smart loot per see either.  Hell, maybe it should over-reward fighters for the first few weeks of expansion for obvious reasons, but it isn't sustainable as it is.  That is to say its hindering the 'fun' for many people and over-rewarding a minority.</p></blockquote><p>You absolutely are advocating for smartloot.  It should be there ffs.</p><p>It may well be that HM has less of a problem because the numbers are larger, and that's great for those guilds doing it.  However, HM isn't a reality for a vast number of guilds, and frankly there is absolutely no good reason NOT to impliment a smartloot drop for patterns.</p><p>It might seem to some that smartloot would "unfairly" favor the healers, but that would only last a run or two, because as soon as the healers started to show some saturation of drops, the odds would start to work in favor of the less played archtypes.</p><p>Remember, these drops aren't really about what it takes to kill the mob you just killed.  It's about the long term.  I would much rather have 80% of my raid happy and geared after a few weeks than have fighters geared and frustrated because half the raid still doesn't have the drops to survive the more difficult encounters.</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>ShadyCharacter wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I don't think anyone is advocating 100% smart loot. Just a decent chance at it to skew the drop rate in the right direction. 100% smart loot for example could make it hard to gear out alts if your alt list is radically different to your main raid roster. While alts are obviously not as important as mains they are a concern and will be more so 6 months down the track.</blockquote><p>While alts are a concern, "smartloot" should be smart enough to revert to an even pattern distribution once the raid is at full saturation for the pattern any particular mob is dropping.</p>

[NaeenSpeedbringer]

<p>even partial smartloot would help.</p><p>pattern drops for a fighter.  check to see if all fighters in raid have that item.  if not, fighter item drops.  if all fighters have the item, 50% chance to reroll for a different pattern.</p><p>in TSO, i know they started the expansion with no smart loot, then bumped it to 25%, then 50% and i believe it ended with 75%.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You absolutely are advocating for smartloot.  It should be there ffs.</p></blockquote><p>I'm more advocating that the % chance reflect the % of the raid likely to be compromized by the class.</p><p>An archtype that will almost always have 8 slots on your roster should have a higher chance of a drop than an archtype that will at most represent 4 slots (likely 2-3).</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Crabbok@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> 25% for each archtype sounds about as close to fair as you can come unless you go with a high smart loot chance.  </p></blockquote><p>I have to catagoricaly disagree with that.</p><p>An archtype that constitutes 8-12% of your raid force should not have a 25% chance at loot dropping they need, when an archtype that constitutes ~36% of your raid force having the same chance that something will drop for their class.</p><p>I mean sure, as a fighter, its great getting drops constantly.  I'm not particularly thrilled about my priests seeing more drops available for their fighter alts than their mains.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Naxus@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>From release this is how many items we've got from raids so far for each archtype</p><p><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Fighter</span></strong>       <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Mage </span></strong>        <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Scout</span></strong>        <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Healer </span></strong>  55               49              51              45</p></blockquote><p>Our data skewes even higher to the left of that chart, but talking with others, we're all seeing a distribution near that.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>Anything less than smartloot is just a different chance for the RNG to continuously screw you. </p><p>Changing the drop rate on a per archtype basis isn't a solution.  You're just moving the problem to a different archtype.</p><p>Smartloot works.  It does.  It rolls the chest, then makes sure that someone actually needs what it just rolled.  If no one needs the item, it rolls until it gets an item someone DOES need or decides that everyone already has that slot covered and gives you something random.</p>

[lazlo1]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anything less than smartloot is just a different chance for the RNG to continuously screw you. </p><p>Changing the drop rate on a per archtype basis isn't a solution.  You're just moving the problem to a different archtype.</p><p>Smartloot works.  It does.  It rolls the chest, then makes sure that someone actually needs what it just rolled.  If no one needs the item, it rolls until it gets an item someone DOES need or decides that everyone already has that slot covered and gives you something random.</p></blockquote><p>You dont get it. SOE doesnt want to gear up the raid fast. They could easily do smartloot, heck they prob have to turn it off.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can agree on HM drops.  The number of drops sorta seeds things better, but aren't you also seeing the same thing, fighter alts getting slots that mains don't have? </p></blockquote><p>We're seeing that, but people are still getting geared extremely quickly.  With the recent gear upgrades, I'm concerned about the longevity of the content, and I wouldn't support changes to make gearing up even faster.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can agree on HM drops.  The number of drops sorta seeds things better, but aren't you also seeing the same thing, fighter alts getting slots that mains don't have? </p></blockquote><p>We're seeing that, but people are still getting geared extremely quickly.  With the recent gear upgrades, I'm concerned about the longevity of the content, and I wouldn't support changes to make gearing up even faster.</p></blockquote><p>Your consumption concerns are about the top 5-10% of the playerbase and doesn't mean it should be applied to the whole.  Your concern would suggest that HM content shouldn't drop more paterns than EM, and perhaps should even drop fewer.  In that those that treadmill the fastest require a longer path.</p><p>We'll have more / harder raid zones in a few months time to deal with consumption issues.  I'm more concerned with how many players are failing to even scratch the surface on this expansion content vs the burnout rate of the top percentile.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Your consumption concerns are about the top 5-10% of the playerbase and doesn't mean it should be applied to the whole.  <strong>Your concern would suggest that HM content shouldn't drop more paterns than EM, and perhaps should even drop fewer.</strong>  In that those that treadmill the fastest require a longer path.</p><p>We'll have more / harder raid zones in a few months time to deal with consumption issues.  I'm more concerned with how many players are failing to even scratch the surface on this expansion content vs the burnout rate of the top percentile.</p></blockquote><p>I don't know why hard mode drops more armor than easy mode.  I guess maybe they expect everyone to get through the initial HM content eventually, and they want it to be easy to catch up to the newly released content, which will be designed around having hard mode gear?</p><p>I'll agree to disagree on the importance of keeping the top players interested.  I did see that guildprogress shows 59 guilds clearing both Kraytoc's and Storms already, though, which seems like a fairly large number for being just over a month into the expansion.  And the gear upgrades haven't even really had time to take effect, yet.</p>

[Dark_fairy]

<p>Please dont do smartloot. God it causes more issues then benifits.</p>

[Odys]

<p>What i find disturbing  is that the large amount of trash in the giant fortress drop nothing, not even a couple of platinium. </p>

[Alazarz]

<p>I haven't seen the fighter forearms drop! Ever! I have full set of ez mode gear, armor/jewlery but no forearms!!  Turns out its just an soe conspiracy against me!</p>

[Oxie]

<p>For the 3rd week in a row, the useless brawler weapon has dropped. Grats brawler alts...soon to be Unrest server brawlers. Fighter mains and the alts are better geared up compared to the rest of the raid force.</p><p>This is expansion getting old already.</p>