DoV Bruiser class issues

[Quicksilver74]

<p>Some of these things may cover more classes in general, like fighters or brawlers but i'll list them here anyway.  </p><p><strong>Worthless Bruiser Tree AAs</strong> - Enhance: Rock Skin is crap.  Enhance: Feign Death is Crap.  Enhance: Intimidate is ultra crap.  And at the bottom, Debilitating Gouge is also crap.  Revamp these please with the AA revamp. </p><p><strong>Lack of DPS mod </strong><span style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: line-through;">-</span> We used to offer DPS mod to our group a long long time ago.   With the uncapping of DPS mod, we need that back.   Either through a new buff, a revamped CA, or something.  </p><p><strong>Drag</strong> - STILL barely works.   Granted there are a FEW raid mobs that it does work on now, but the list is still far too small.   there are a ton of raid mobs that are immune to drag, that have no good reason to be immune to drag.   Listen Devs, we don't need drag to work because we want to trivialize mem-wiping mobs.  We need drag to work so we can reposition mobs that have terrible terrible pathing.  Drag needs to work on EVERY raid mob with a few rare exceptions, (Like ROK's leviathan for example).  </p><p><strong>Tag Team</strong> - Broken Broken Broken.   Tag Team only works as intended if you cast it on yourself.  When you cast it on another raid member it has seemingly random effects.   It will change hate to random different people, and certainly does NOT do what it says.   Sometimes it will give the brawler full hate on Every Mob, even what it is cast on someone who is only tanking one add...  It's just random and broken.   If you aren't able to fix it, then I suggest a full revamp to this ability.  Maybe a permanent single target buff that grants you and your target some bonusses, or something. </p><p><strong>Combat Mastery </strong>- I know it's a lost cause, but I'd love to see the duration restore to the 18 seconds it was in beta.  Additionally, I would like to see an eventual focus effect for Combat Mastery that allows it to affect spells as well.  </p><p><strong>Middle Stance</strong> - Middle Stance for brawlers kinda blows, it's one of only 2 CA's that I don't keep on my hotbars at all.   It'd be great to re-purpose this stance into a potential other role.  Perhaps a stance with heavy AE focus, that turns our red CA's into blue CAs, but has some drawback, like extending the recast of CAs.  Or maybe a support stance, that increases the benefit of Shrug off, our raidwide buff, and procs group power or something, or best yet a pure single target stance, that sets AE attack at zero, disables all blue AEs, yet increases flurry by 30%, autoattack modifier by .5, and has a 1% chance to proc a 100% multiattack increase for 15 seconds.   Just tossing out some crazy ideas, but either way a new direction for the middle stance woudl be awesome.  Or better yet just get rid of this stance altogether and give brawlers and extra group buff.  </p><p><strong>Offensive Stance</strong> - We want the proc increased to be more significant.   Encounter Damage, higher damage, or an AA that turns it into a BLUE AE Damage are all ideas.  </p><p><strong>Lightning Fists</strong> - Again this ability is very weak, and need a serious overhaul.  Ideally it should be some kind of group temp, that also grants an additional bonus other than just the damage, perhaps flurry, multi attack, or base autoattack modifier.   Or chage it to a permanent buff or some sort.</p><p><strong>Brutality </strong>- Our Raidwide buff gives 5% Potency to combat arts only.  This was nice when it was first ontroduced, but has QUICKLY become insignificant.  Since the removal of the potency cap, and with the incredible gains of crit bonus and potency over the years, the increase that 5% potency once gave is insignificant in today's game.   Also, Every version of Brutality gives the exact same 5%, (At master quality).   I strongly suggest that this number be one that grows stronger with each Tier of the spell.   Maybe Brutality 1 gives 5%, Brutality 2 gives 7%, etc, have the T9 version give somehwree around 20%, which would keep the buff relevant. </p><p><strong>Buffs dropping on Death</strong> - Probably due to set bonuses, but our stances seem to always drop on death if we have gear with a Stance Focus.   This is not a huge issue, but rather a minor annoyance.</p><p><strong>Altruism</strong> - Altruism is almost worthless now, because when someone dies to trigger it, they almost immediatley die again from one of MANY things, IE a tick of a dot, or a proc, or SOMETHING that happens almost at the exact same time as whatever killed them.  Altruism is no longer working as originally intended due to these mechanic changes and probably should grant a temporary immunity to damage on the person who triggers it.  This woudl actually allow the person to USE Altruism and stay alive hopefully.  </p>

[Novusod]

<p>They nerfed Drag pretty hard just today it seems. Frostbeard, Turt Turganpuncher, Kreegar Krikneck, and Pilus Gunnr can no longer be dragged as well as some of the trash. Probably other named too.</p><p>I think this is pretty unnacceptible if you ask me.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p>I can't say anything on Tag Team as I never used it. I'm fine with what MA level I'm at and I think drag works on every mob that it should work on, Not to mention Combat Mastery is fine where it's at!</p><p>Bruisers seem pretty well balanced if not overpowered to an extent right now and the only complaint I could have is that Closed Mind blocks nearly every control effect but it doesn't block the "Prevents player from changing target" effects in a PVE enviroment, Yet Aura of the Crusader and the new endline Warrior abilities have this tag on their immunities.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They nerfed Drag pretty hard just today it seems. Frostbeard, Turt Turganpuncher, Kreegar Krikneck, and Pilus Gunnr can no longer be dragged as well as some of the trash. Probably other named too.</p><p>I think this is pretty unnacceptible if you ask me.</p></blockquote><p>Can we just get drag completely erased and changed to something that works?   I woudl curse alot right now but these are the SOE boards. </p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They nerfed Drag pretty hard just today it seems. Frostbeard, Turt Turganpuncher, Kreegar Krikneck, and Pilus Gunnr can no longer be dragged as well as some of the trash. Probably other named too.</p><p>I think this is pretty unnacceptible if you ask me.</p></blockquote><p>Can we just get drag completely erased and changed to something that works?   I woudl curse alot right now but these are the SOE boards. </p></blockquote><p>There is atleast one mob in every raid zone and some heroic zones where drag is useful. I <3 it.</p>

[Novusod]

<p><cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can we just get drag completely erased and changed to something that works?   I woudl curse alot right now but these are the SOE boards. </p></blockquote><p>The nerf Yesterday pretty much did erase it from the game since it doesn't appear to work on anything usefull anymore. It looked like they were doing in the right direction by letting us drag a lot of named in DoV but post nerf drag doesn't work on anything.</p><p>@Corydonn what is useful about drag now that it has been nerfed? I want specifics and not your usual vagueness about it being useful on one random mob in every zone.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Novusod wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Can we just get drag completely erased and changed to something that works?   I woudl curse alot right now but these are the SOE boards. </p></blockquote><p>The nerf Yesterday pretty much did erase it from the game since it doesn't appear to work on anything usefull anymore. It looked like they were doing in the right direction by letting us drag a lot of named in DoV but post nerf drag doesn't work on anything.</p><p>@Corydonn what is useful about drag now that it has been nerfed? I want specifics and not your usual vagueness about it being useful on one random mob in every zone.</p></blockquote><p>Flames of War, Static Elemental, and I'm pretty sure it still works on Left/Right</p>

[Xelgad]

<p><cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Tag Team</strong> - Broken Broken Broken.   Tag Team only works as intended if you cast it on yourself.  When you cast it on another raid member it has seemingly random effects.   It will change hate to random different people, and certainly does NOT do what it says.   Sometimes it will give the brawler full hate on Every Mob, even what it is cast on someone who is only tanking one add...  It's just random and broken.   If you aren't able to fix it, then I suggest a full revamp to this ability.  Maybe a permanent single target buff that grants you and your target some bonusses, or something. </p></blockquote><div><div><div>It's disappointing to hear that Tag Team isn't working for you guys. Can you be any more specific about what's breaking it? The threat position changes should be showing up in your logs under "YOUR Tag Team reduces YOUR hate position with Enemy by X positions" and "Target's Tag Team increases THEIR hate position with Enemy by X positions."</div> <div> </div> <div>I've tested it many times myself and I'm having trouble reproducing the issues you're seeing.</div></div></div>

[Quicksilver74]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><strong>Tag Team</strong> - Broken Broken Broken.   Tag Team only works as intended if you cast it on yourself.  When you cast it on another raid member it has seemingly random effects.   It will change hate to random different people, and certainly does NOT do what it says.   Sometimes it will give the brawler full hate on Every Mob, even what it is cast on someone who is only tanking one add...  It's just random and broken.   If you aren't able to fix it, then I suggest a full revamp to this ability.  Maybe a permanent single target buff that grants you and your target some bonusses, or something. </p></blockquote><div><div><div>It's disappointing to hear that Tag Team isn't working for you guys. Can you be any more specific about what's breaking it? The threat position changes should be showing up in your logs under "YOUR Tag Team reduces YOUR hate position with Enemy by X positions" and "Target's Tag Team increases THEIR hate position with Enemy by X positions."</div> <div> </div> <div>I've tested it many times myself and I'm having trouble reproducing the issues you're seeing.</div></div></div></blockquote><p>I'm not currently specced for Tag Team, and since I'm working on Hard Mode fights, probably not going to be re-speccing it again any time in the immediate future, for fear of causing wipes.  But I will try and recount to the best of my memory the specific instances of what happened.  </p><p> The first instance is when I would be tanking a raid mob.  Hardmode Raid Trash tends to kill people from time to time, and one such tiem I died.   I figured, hey, this woudl be a perfect time to use Tag Team, after I got rezzed.   Well, I started autoattacking the mob, hit a CA, (to ensure that I was actually engaged with my target), then targetted the mob's target, and hit Tag Team.   Nothing happened at all.  Pretty sure in that case I SHOULD have had aggro but didn't. </p><p> The second instance was me trying to lower the hate for a DPS class.  On a trash mob, I only hit 1 CA, and let my hate stay low.  I waited a few seconds, and targetted our highest dps, and hit Tag Team.   My hate number did not change at all.   I was expecting it to increase significantly.  </p><p> The third instance was with me trying to be mischevious, while tanking a trash mob, I had full aggro... targetted our wizard, hit Tag team.. and expected the mob to turn to the wizard to kill him.   It did not.   I don't remember exactly what happened, but pretty sure it stayed on me. </p><p> The worst example is on an encounter where mobs have collaborative strike.  I only attempted to use tag team one time, as the result was so bad that I threw in the towel and decided I"m never speccing for this god awful ability again. We had 4 tanks in raid, and I wanted to get aggro on an add.  One of our tanks had a single add... (as tanks often do on those type encounters), so I targetted him and hit Tag Team.  I expected it to give me hate on his mob, and for him to lose hate on the mob.   But no... instead.... EVERY mob in the entire encounter went straight for our Main Tank, (Who was not the target and nowhere near me at the time), and then proceeded to collaboritvely strike him and then each tank in the raid immediatley after.  </p><p>I was specced Tag Team for 3 days.   During that time, I have never seen it work as it is described.   Not a single time.  I used it probably 20 timeswith other targets, and not one of those times did it do what I wanted it to do.  The ONLY time it works is when I'm targetting myself, (or the mob, when I am tanking, so implied target is myself).  When I discussed this in ventrilo, brigands mentioned that they have a similar spell that is supposed to swap hate, and has never worked.   I don't know how accurate that statement is, but thats what they said, so I just assumed that it's SOE code involving hate swapping that may be the problem.  </p><p>  And Dude...   I don't know if it's within your power but can you take a look at why so many mobs are being made immune to drag?  I'd honestly like to hear a serious explanation as to why.   Having the ability to reposition a mob does not trivialize mem-wipes, so I don't want to hear that...   I can understand in the case of a rare mob like Leviathan, or the Terdpuncher in Kraytocs...   but honestly drag is such a short duration, "Once in awhile" ability, it is only used to reposition a mob when it ends up in a wierd spot.   Please look into this... I've been begging for years.   I'd even be willing to concede my entire argument about nunchucks if we can just let Drag work the way it SHOULD work.  </p><p>  Or at least give us a serious explanation why Raid_trash_mob_012 just HAD to be made drag immune.  </p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>Updates this thead to add a request for a revision to our Middle Stance.  A new focus, maybe some reason to actually use it?</p>

[Gungo]

<p>i would love to see offensive stance have a more noticeable effect such as making the proc rate proc on ALL weapons including combat arts and making the proc encounter wide.</p>

[Cocytus]

<p>They've seriously been nerfing draggable mobs?</p><p>I really get more and more angry at this game's devs with every passing day. WHY DO WE HAVE TO DO EVERYTHING ONE FREAKING WAY.</p><p>Drag has been especially useful in DOV because of the idiotic choice to extend autoattack range making mobs a ridiculous chore to reposition.</p>

[Novusod]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><div><div>It's disappointing to hear that Tag Team isn't working for you guys. Can you be any more specific about what's breaking it? The threat position changes should be showing up in your logs under "YOUR Tag Team reduces YOUR hate position with Enemy by X positions" and "Target's Tag Team increases THEIR hate position with Enemy by X positions."</div> <div> </div> <div>I've tested it many times myself and I'm having trouble reproducing the issues you're seeing.</div></div></div></blockquote><p>I have been specced tag team for a few weeks already. Mostly just use it as an extra self heal while tanking. There is a big risk though while using it. If I lose agro while casting tag team it will drop me to the very bottom of the hate list.</p>

[NamaeZero]

<p>Having just switched from Monk to Bruiser, one thing puzzles me. Why do my stances drop on death as a Bruiser but not as a Monk?</p><p>Anyone else having this issue? Is there any way to solve it? It's kind of annoying to have to remember to reclick stances that should always be on in the middle of combat.</p>

[Tainae]

<p>never had my stances drop on death</p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p><cite>NamaeZero wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Having just switched from Monk to Bruiser, one thing puzzles me. Why do my stances drop on death as a Bruiser but not as a Monk?</p><p>Anyone else having this issue? Is there any way to solve it? It's kind of annoying to have to remember to reclick stances that should always be on in the middle of combat.</p></blockquote><p>2nd this, think it has something to do with the bruiser stances in our helm. seems like when you die it counts you gear as unequipt even thought it still is. causing you to rebuff the stance. (sames and unequipting it and re-equipting it.</p>

[Conandar]

<p>My bruiser is not a raiding toon....hell, he is barely a grouping toon, but I have seen the stance dropping on death many times.  It is not just the stances, either...sometimes the raidwide buff (forget the name atm) drops instead.  I see no reason for them to be dropping.  I keep my hot bar with buffs on it well away from my CAs, so I am not hitting them by accident.  I suppose we should be happy that it is not the old days where everything dropped on death, though perhaps that would be better for consistencys sake.</p>

[Mosha D'Khan]

<p>never seen bruitality drop by may i ask when you see it drop? if it is in PQs may have another bruiser over riding it. but for stances it does get a bit annoying because i got to put it back on before i got get mob again causing few deaths</p>

[NamaeZero]

<p>Yeah, I do have the red Bruiser Stances adornment on my helm slot item, and that probably has a role to play in this. I guess I'll try dying without the helm and see what happens.</p><p>But if that is the case (that the helm adornment causes that), I really think that means that there's something wrong, because when I was a Monk in SF I had the Monk Stances adornment slotted and my stances never dropped, except when I was swapping hats. Why should it be less functional for Bruisers?</p>

[Conandar]

<p>Well, this last time that Brutality dropped I was in a PQ and there was at least one other bruiser there.  I have it mastered, so it wasn't overwritten by a better version.  But, many of the times that it drops I am soloing.  Also, I am in DoV/PQ gear, so no red-adorns are a factor.  It is just annoying.</p>

[NamaeZero]

<p><cite>Conandar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well, this last time that Brutality dropped I was in a PQ and there was at least one other bruiser there.  I have it mastered, so it wasn't overwritten by a better version.  But, many of the times that it drops I am soloing.  Also, I am in DoV/PQ gear, so no red-adorns are a factor.  It is just annoying.</p></blockquote><p>It's possible that the other Bruiser had an identical Mastered quality spell, and depending on who got into the group first one of your Brutalities was over-rided the other Bruisers. Sometimes I have a little buff wars where I notice my Brutality dropping in a PQ, so I'll recast it, which drops the other Bruisers Brutality. So they recast their Brutality and so on.</p><p>Good times. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>Updated.  Added some requests.  Additionally I want them to look at Brutality's 5% CA damage.   5% aint what it used to be, and it should be one of those CA's that is scaling up with each tier.   5% back in TSO was a nice little buff, but 5% now is insignificant.  It should be 20 or 25% now IMO.</p>

[Kram337]

<p>Reading over the list, I'd have to agree with the posted issues. It'd be nice if that medium stance became something usable. And if the raid utility we got years ago (brutality) was brought back up to a point that made it desirable. </p><p>I guess the only thing I don't necessarily agree with is some of you guys saying to just get rid of drag if it wont work on more raid mobs. Drag's one of my favorite abilities regardless of raiding. Course I'm not an avid raider (want to be but have only done the x2 stuff). Maybe it's a really big deal for raiding but for grouping and for pvp it's the tops.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>Updated with some Fan Faire concerns. </p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>Updated to add some problems with Altruism.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Crabbok@Unrest_old wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Updated to add some problems with Altruism.</p></blockquote><p>Altruism would be better if it ddint feign death the person either but instead of an immunity of some sort. I would even take the restriction of NON fighter on it for it to work well.</p><p>I would also like to add the ability of "CONTROL HATE" as bugged. It states it should LOWER your hate position when in OFFENSIVE stance. Instead it doesnt work that way and ONLY works with shiftiness. I rather not waste the AA's on shiftiness and instead use control hate as a much better means for hate control especially when you want to DPS.</p>

[alabama]

<p>id like it if we could get combat mastery back up to 20 secs, 15 at least.</p><p>and if our deathsave was passive like everyone else</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and if our deathsave was passive like everyone else</p></blockquote><p>Great idea.  Lower the triggers, make it uncastable in combat, and put some more limitations on it like you have to have a group alive for it to trigger and it drains health from group members.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and if our deathsave was passive like everyone else</p></blockquote><p>Great idea.  Lower the triggers, make it uncastable in combat, and put some more limitations on it like you have to have a group alive for it to trigger and it drains health from group members.</p></blockquote><p>His suggestions were pretty aburd and OP. In all honest ALL DEATH saves should have one trigger with a duration no longer then 45 secs and at least a 5 min base recast in combat. Death saves in general are bad design for a game to make it challenging by forcing tanks to die.</p><p> Combat mastery was never up for 20 secs and it is still a very strong ability.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and if our deathsave was passive like everyone else</p></blockquote><p>Great idea.  Lower the triggers, make it uncastable in combat, and put some more limitations on it like you have to have a group alive for it to trigger and it drains health from group members.</p></blockquote><p>His suggestions were pretty aburd and OP. In all honest ALL DEATH saves should have one trigger with a duration no longer then 45 secs and at least a 5 min base recast in combat. Death saves in general are bad design for a game to make it challenging by forcing tanks to die.</p><p> Combat mastery was never up for 20 secs and it is still a very strong ability.</p></blockquote><p>I agree that they should probably all be 1 trigger.  However instead of the up 45 sec and only useable every 5 min they should just make them up perma and all uncastable in combat.  Fighter Death saves should not have evolved into an AE save like most Fighters can use them now.  They should have been for that oh shoot the healers failed once.</p>

[alabama]

<p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and if our deathsave was passive like everyone else</p></blockquote><p>Great idea.  Lower the triggers, make it uncastable in combat, and put some more limitations on it like you have to have a group alive for it to trigger and it drains health from group members.</p></blockquote><p>im picking up your sarcasm buddy...however if it was passive why would i need to cast it during combat...wouldnt i just cast it before and wait for it to fire off instead of having it never fire off because my heal procs save me after i use it and then my triggers wear off before it gets used..ya thought so....</p><p>continue on im sure then next one will be highly witty as well.</p>

[alabama]

<p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and if our deathsave was passive like everyone else</p></blockquote><p>Great idea.  Lower the triggers, make it uncastable in combat, and put some more limitations on it like you have to have a group alive for it to trigger and it drains health from group members.</p></blockquote><p>His suggestions were pretty aburd and OP. In all honest ALL DEATH saves should have one trigger with a duration no longer then 45 secs and at least a 5 min base recast in combat. Death saves in general are bad design for a game to make it challenging by forcing tanks to die.</p><p> Combat mastery was never up for 20 secs and it is still a very strong ability.</p></blockquote><p>cm was 20 or very close to it in beta sir you are incorrect.</p><p>and my ideas arent any worse then half the crap bruener troll posts consistantly...but at least im in my own classes board</p>

[Controlor]

<p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and if our deathsave was passive like everyone else</p></blockquote><p>Great idea.  Lower the triggers, make it uncastable in combat, and put some more limitations on it like you have to have a group alive for it to trigger and it drains health from group members.</p></blockquote><p>im picking up your sarcasm buddy...however if it was passive why would i need to cast it during combat...wouldnt i just cast it before and wait for it to fire off instead of having it never fire off because my heal procs save me after i use it and then my triggers wear off before it gets used..ya thought so....</p><p>continue on im sure then next one will be highly witty as well.</p></blockquote><p>The simple fact that if it was passive would be a 3 trigger death save with no downfall. Yah that is not going to happen.</p><p>Currently SK's are a 2 trigger death save (after focus) that require at least 1 other person (it might be 2 other people not sure) in order for it to function. And when it goes off it drains life from people in group. They can not cast it in combat.</p><p>Paladins is a 1 trigger death save that has "no downside". That is of course after 1 focus and 3 aa spent to prevent it from stunning you for 15 seconds. It also is only 75% heal or so (which is plenty but still not 100%). It is castable in combat on a long reuse. </p><p>So yah a 3 trigger stoneskin with no downside is OP if it is permentant. Even if it is not able to be cast in combat.</p><p>As to the point of "why would i cast it in combat". You are aware that once the triggers are all used you wont have a death save. At least i am hoping you are aware of it. So once it is down you are waiting for the reuse or are SOL. Many times it will go down after mob gets a lucky hit off on me and not even from a big aoe. Than i am sitting there anxiously waiting for the reuse (as a paladin believe it is 5 min base reuse) to come back and HOPE i dont get a killing blow against me durring the time my death save is down.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bruener wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>alabama wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>and if our deathsave was passive like everyone else</p></blockquote><p>Great idea.  Lower the triggers, make it uncastable in combat, and put some more limitations on it like you have to have a group alive for it to trigger and it drains health from group members.</p></blockquote><p>His suggestions were pretty aburd and OP. In all honest ALL DEATH saves should have one trigger with a duration no longer then 45 secs and at least a 5 min base recast in combat. Death saves in general are bad design for a game to make it challenging by forcing tanks to die.</p><p> Combat mastery was never up for 20 secs and it is still a very strong ability.</p></blockquote><p>cm was 20 or very close to it in beta sir you are incorrect.</p><p>and my ideas arent any worse then half the crap bruener troll posts consistantly...but at least im in my own classes board</p></blockquote><p>Sir I am not incorrect like every beta i was there it was never 20 secs it was 18 secs originally and nerfed before it went live after testing showed it was going to be Op in raids at that length.</p>