Legal question to you law types

[Cerithian]

<p>If you purchase a product such as Velious and the product is unplayable due to outdated servers, can you legally demand a refund for the product?  It is my assertion that Velious is unplayable now due to the servers not being able to handle the load of PQ's.</p><p>I find that totally unacceptable but I don't know if it warrants a demand for a refund.  I personally feel like i"m justified in demanding a refund for this broken product but I don't know legally whether this is the case.</p><p>Any advice would be appreciated, thank you in advance.</p><p>**Edit** Also if I am deserving of a refund does anyone know where I would go to request one?</p>

[CheezeBurgerAnimal]

<p>lol</p>

[Jeepned2]

<p><cite>Cerithian wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you purchase a product such as Velious and the product is unplayable due to outdated servers, can you legally demand a refund for the product?  It is my assertion that Velious is unplayable now due to the servers not being able to handle the load of PQ's.</p><p>I find that totally unacceptable but I don't know if it warrants a demand for a refund.  I personally feel like i"m justified in demanding a refund for this broken product but I don't know legally whether this is the case.</p><p>Any advice would be appreciated, thank you in advance.</p><p>**Edit** Also if I am deserving of a refund does anyone know where I would go to request one?</p></blockquote><p>Good luck but think this is one of those $40.00 mistakes that you are going to have to eat. I can't see that SoE would have any liability since not everyone is facing the same level of unplayablity that you say you are having. Either way, good luck.</p>

[Cerithian]

<p>From reading other posts I think quite a few people are having the same issues as I am.  During the PQ's even if I'm not participating I'm experiencing a 5 to 6 second delay in casting any spells.  Since the PQ's occur quite frequently that makes it impossible for me to play for long stretches of time. </p><p>We can just toss the legal question aside I guess, I'll stick with the question of whether anyone knows who I would contact to request my money back in the first place.  I'm guessing it's probably customer support, but I dont' know if they handle requests like this.</p>

[Tallithia]

<p>Actually you have to look at the complaients in context.  If you have a custiomer base of XXXXX amount, and of the XXX that post on the forums, only XX are showing an issue, that's very few, not many who are experienceing the same. </p><p>I am thinking you really don't want your money back.  I think you wanted to stir the pot.</p><p>I think if you are truly interested in getting your money back you would have gone to the store or contacted SOE directly.  It's not as if their number isn't listed to ask the question directly. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>But good luck on this if I am wrong.  Oh and the lesson here?  don't buy an expansion before it's released and bugs worked out.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</p>

[Seidhkona]

<p>As you log in, take a moment to read the EULA, you know, that End User agreement you have never looked at for a second. <a href="http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=12248" target="_blank">Or you can look at it in the Knowledgebase</a>.</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;">"You understand that we may update or otherwise enhance the Software at any time and in doing so incur no obligation to furnish such updates to you pursuant to this Agreement.<span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong> You understand that online games evolve over time and, accordingly, system requirements to play the Game may change over time.</strong></span>"</p><p>Also:</p><p style="padding-left: 30px;">"EXCEPT FOR THE LIMITED 90 DAY WARRANTY ON THE MEDIA AS SET FORTH ABOVE, WE PROVIDE THE CD-ROM, THE SOFTWARE, THE ACCOUNT, THE GAME AND ALL OTHER SERVICES "AS IS." WE AND OUR SUPPLIERS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF TITLE, NONINFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. Without limiting the foregoing, we do not ensure continuous, error-free, secure or virus-free operation of the CD-ROM, the Software, the Game, your Account or continued operation or availability of any given server."</p><p>So no, you do not get a refund.</p>

[Shareana]

<p>If you are referring to lag during the PQ's, the Developers have already commented on what they are planniing to try out and do in the <span ><a href="list.m?topic_id=496809">Gazebo's more grief then their (RP) worth...</a></span><span >  thread.  </span></p><p>If you are having ocerall issues, then perhaps trying to gain some assistance with the Techies would help.  Posting in the supprt forums or contacting them directly are some options.</p>

[dawy]

<p>Must admit i've never seen lag like there is at the moment in 5 years of playing the game PQ's are laughable so i dont even go there but its that spell lag thats unacceptable in other areas it's just not good enough the sooner its sorted out the better IMO.</p>

[Morrias]

<p>Yeah the lag on Oasis is TERRIBLE, and the "zone not available" stuff is really annoying, I just cancel'd my account.</p><p>Trion will get my money until SoE fixes their servers, simple enough solution right? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Ciara52]

<p>As someone else said it's a $40 mistake or in my case $60. </p><p>I'm planning on a break for a few months at this time.  But it's like a book in a way.  I bought it I didn't like it I am stuck with it.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>Besides why would you sue over such a piddly amount?</p>

[CoLD MeTaL]

<p>Your best bet would probably be "Breach of Contract" in your local small claims court.  You won't ever get anything (ie $$$)  though.</p>

[Cerithian]

<p>My intention was never to actually file a lawsuit.  I was merely asking if legally I had grounds for demanding a refund, which Sigrdrifa showed I do not.   I read the post the moderator linked above and the only comment by a Dev was one in which he admitted the problem was server side and that they were working on a fix.</p><p>Anyone who knows SOE's track record for implementing fixxes will be very uncomfortable with that response, EQ2players anyone?</p>

[Jrral]

<p><cite>Cerithian wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Anyone who knows SOE's track record for implementing fixxes will be very uncomfortable with that response, EQ2players anyone?</p></blockquote><p>Bear in mind that EQ2Players is done by a completely different dev team than the EQ2 game. I don't even think they share a common management chain-of-command below the level of Smed or so.</p><p>Of course, since the fix is going to be complicated, it may still take time. The lag seems to be in quest updates: you have a large number of people who need checked for quest updates, and a large number of events which can trigger quest updates (one event per kill of a mob involved in the PQ). Each potential update event requires the server to check the entire quest journal of everyone in the PQ to see which quests the event updated, and while that's perfectly OK for groups (max 6 people to check) it tends to snowball in a PQ where you've got both a lot more people and a lot more kills that could potentially update the PQ for those people happening faster than a normal group kills. The devs have to both figure out a more efficient way to organize the quest journal for searching and a way to quickly classify events to minimize the amount of searching.</p><p>And of course it'd help if we got the server hardware upgrades that were promised a while back. This is exactly the kind of problem that can be helped (or at least alleviated) by throwing hardware horsepower at it (not more pieces of hardware, but more powerful replacements for the pieces already there).</p>