Berserker class issues thread post Velious and GU 61

[Bremer]

<p>GU 61 had some positive changes, but there are still several outstanding issues, that have to be adressed to bring the class into an <span>adequate </span>state.</p><hr /><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><span style="font-size: large;"><strong>Current top issues</strong></span></span></p><ul><li>Design of the the defensive abilities: The defensive effects are mostly direct heals and thus very inefficient, if your healer is a Shaman or in raid content in general</li><li>Non-pyhsical damage: Berserkers have almost nothing to deal with non-physical damage spikes, only Perfect Counter on a 4 min timer, which is nowhere near enough</li><li>Adrenaline: In it's current state it's pretty much a failed ability, extreme costs combined with limited usefulness</li><li>Berserk proc: With the current dimishing returns curve on haste/DPS there's hardly any gain at all from this class defining abilty</li><li>AOE autoattack: Beserkers have an abdundance of AOE attack effects, that all don't stack while the effect is itemzied more and more, granting a gain to everyone but Berserkers</li><li>Juggernaut: The ability still has mainly effects that were useful in T7, but are no longer useful since T8 and all that with an inappropriate defensive penalty</li><li>CA damage: Beserkers used to excel at melee damage and paid for it with weak CAs, now the melee buffs grant almost no gain, while the CAs stayed weak</li></ul><hr /><hr /><p><span style="font-size: large;"><strong>Detailed list of problems and possible solutions</strong></span></p><hr /><hr /><p><span style="font-size: medium;"><strong><span>Defensive</span></strong></span></p><p>Adrenaline</p><ul><li>There is no correlation between the cost of the spell and the benefit. Every single ward on you will reduce the heal amount, so the usefulness of the reactive heal will be vastly reduced by a Shaman healing you. If the spell works depends on a random proc, if you have wards on you the spell is doing nothing, yet you have to pay 1/3 of your power for it.The 50 % heal should be split, for example into 25 % of damage healed and 25 % of damage reduced. Or 10 % reduction, 40 % heal for physical damage and 50 % reduction for non-physical damage. In exchange the recast could be increased to 3 minutes and the duration reduced to 20s. Also the taunt proc should be allowed to crit again. Using the taunt will drain 1/3 of your power and this cost is not balanced with the threat amount you can generate with Adrenaline Rush.</li></ul><p>Ward of Rage (SF AA)</p><ul><li>The ward is too tiny to be of any use and the ward amount can't be modified by potency.The base ward amount should be increased to 500+ and be modfiable by potency.</li></ul><p>Blood Rage</p><ul><li>The heal proc will mostly heal for nothing because you are at full health and have wards on you.The heal should be replaced by a ward, so that the proc can help even if you have wards on you. Possibly the effect could also be changed to be triggered by all damage, not only melee.</li></ul><p>Perseverance (EoF AA)</p><ul><li>The AA conflicts with Executioner's Fury (KoS AA). When your health drops under the 50 % and Executioner's Fury triggers the heal of Perseverance could immediately dispell it.The heal should be replaced by single stoneskin trigger.</li></ul><p>Dragoon's Reflexes (KoS AA)</p><ul><li>You can't cast CAs while the buff runs, so you are basically stiffled for up to 20 seconds. That is not fun. All healers got their self stuns/stiffles removed, because it was considered bad design. Other fighter's avoidance buffs even increase their damage output. It should at least be possible to cast CAs for Warriors. Also the buff should make you strikethrough immune for the duration</li></ul><hr /><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">Offensive</span></strong></p><p>Berserk</p><ul><li>This effect used to be class defining. But since KoS it is easily possible to cap haste and dps and since that expansion the necessary effort to reach the cap is either nonexistent or greatly reduced with every expansion, because every year there are more buffs, more procs, more adornments, more gear, more AAs to get haste/DPS mod. Even with the new dimishing return curves for haste/DPS the gain from Berserk is almost nonexistent. There is nothing beneficial about the Berserk effect except that you need it to make Adrenaline, Vision of Madness and Unyielding Will work. It's also worthless as group buff.The Berserk effect should receive some additional effects that are not easily capped or not capped at all, eg small amounts of flurry, potency, crit bonus, reuse speed, cast speed, accuracy, strikethrough, hate gain or autoattack multiplier. In the scrapped fighter revamp 2.0 the Berserk effect would have differed based on the stance. This would also make an interesting addition, eg the def stance could add strikethrough and increased hate gain while Berserk and the off stance crit bonus and accuracy.The Berserk effect from the EoF AA tree should also receive some additional effects. Otherwise it was a pretty pointless change to turn it into a shorttime group buff, when it doesn't buff anything for the group.</li></ul><p>Juggernaut</p><ul><li>Wikipedia says, that a Juggernaut is "a literal or metaphorical force regarded as unstoppable". An EQ2 Juggernaut is easier to kill than a non-Juggernaut and you get a tiny DPS boost for that. Crit chance can be entirely capped by gear. So you get small amount of CA damage for the weak Berserker CAs and 5 crit bonus (from AA) and you have sacrifice mitigation, avoidance and HP for it, a very bad trade off.The offensive components should be updated to be beneficial with the current combat mechanic, eg by adding a base autoattack multiplier modification or crit bonus instead of crit chance. And then it should be reevaluated if the gains are good enough to justify penalties. Otherwise the penalties should be removed.Also the spell name, duration and recast would make Juggernaut a great candidate for a "Berserkerish" defensive ability, some kind of "super Berserk" mode. Instead of making the Berserker easier to kill the effect should make the Berserker harder to kill. Eg a Bolster-like effect, that increases HP and size would fit very will with the spell name and could deal with the fact, that Berserkers are the only Fighter without HP buffs. Another possibility would immunity control effects (stun, stiffle, root, mezz) for the duration. </li></ul><p>AE autoattack</p><ul><li>Since RoK Berserkers can permanently reach the 100 % AE attack cap as innate ability with the mythical weapon. But Open Wounds hasn't been changed to adress that fact and still buffs 100 % AE attack, as if it had an effect. The same applies to Dragoon's Cyclone (KoS tree). And there are buffs from other classes with AE attack and items have AE attack. All these buffs offer no benefits for Berserkers and the ways to increase AE attack chance are increased with every GU.The obvious fix would be apply the same mechanic like from multiattack to AE attack and to turn all AE autoattack above the 100 % cap to AE multiattack. Another possibilty, that requires no mechanic changes, would be to simply remove the AE attack chance from Berserker buffs. Whirlwind could become a massive area damage proc instead of an AE autoattack buff. And the AE attack chance on Open Wounds could be removed and instead the damage effect could be signifanctly improved by a factor of ~5. This way Beserkers would benefit from items with AE attack chance just like every other class and it would also help with the weak CA damage output of Berserkers (see next point).</li></ul><p>Combat Arts in general</p><ul><li>Compared to others Berserkers always had rather weak Combat Arts, but compensated that with their offensive buffs, that boosted their autoattack damage. Before you could easily cap DPS and Haste, the Berserk proc was a great boost, before you could cap crit chance, Juggernaut was a great boost, before every Fighter could cap AE attack, a 100 % AE attack buff was a great boost. But these times are all long gone, every Fighter can cap these abilites without being build around those buffs like Berserkers. Berserkers have no more an edge on melee buffs, yet the CAs remain on the same weak level.Either the Berserker offensive buffs should be updated to boost more significantly autoattack damage. Or the Berserker CA capabilites should be reevaluated in comparison to other Fighters and brought in line with them. The base values of the CAs should be increased or secondary effects (taunt components, damage/threat over time components) should be added. </li></ul><p>Destructive Rage</p><ul><li>GU 60 changed the spell to buff multiattack. GU 61 introduced dimishing returns on multiattack with a starting point, that high end raiders can already reach. This makes the buff pretty useless for them and in the foreseeable future for most people.The buff should receive some effects, that are not in dimishing returns. For example, there are Fighter raid buff for 5 % better heals, 5 % better spells and 5 % better CAs. It would fit perfectly if the Berserker raid buff would increase the autoattack damage by 5 %.</li></ul><hr /><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">Misc</span></strong></p><ul><li>EoF AA treeEnhance Body Check, Mutilate, Maul, Demolish, Head Crush are all meaningless enhancements. 5 % more damage per rank should be added to all of them</li><li>Cyclones (EoF tree)The effect improves the casting time of all area and encounter damage spells, except Stunning Roar, the effect with the longest cast time, that would benefit the most from an improved cast time. The spell should be included.Also the effect adds permanent +5m range to all spells. While there are certainly situations where this would be helpful, there are also lots of situations, where you don't want your spells to have enhanced range, for example fights where you split the nameds and adds and don't want to hit the wrong target with hate position effects. Or in general the game engine has problems with large AEs and mobs will odds through walls, floors and ceilings.It should be possible to turn the range enhancer effect off. Preferably only the range enhancement or otherwise the whole Cyclones effect.</li></ul><hr /><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">Bugs</span></strong></p><ul><li>The small damage effect on Open Wounds is not affected by the CA damage enhancement of Juggernaut</li><li>The initial damage/taunt effects of Insolence (Insolent Gibe/Assault) are not affected by ability mod, although the spell has a cast time and the effect is not a proc.</li></ul><hr /><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">Class Foci</span></strong></p><p>You could delete 9 of 10 Berserker class foci and nobody would notice it. The Rampage focus is the only decent one. Effects like Focus Controlled Rage, that averages on +3 block while there is a permanent +7 block adornment; Focus Berserk, that adds the same amount of c/s/p skills like a treasured adornment, but not permanently or Focus Wall of Rage, that increase mitigation of Wall of Rage by 15 % can't be taken seriously. These effects shouldn't be reused and should be replaced by proper effects.</p>

[aias]

<p>Great write-up Bremer!  Couldn't have said it any better.  You put alot more effort in writing this post than some of the people who destroyed this class in DoV.</p><p>Real Adrenaline covered up alot of the defeciencies this class had before.  It was probably created as an easy fix rather than go through and revamp the entire line of buffs for this class.  Fake Adrenaline(post-nerf) is completely and utterly worthless.  I got maybe 5% heal out of my total heals parse from it.  And, I was constantly using it since I was spiking like mad.  Battle frenzy has become our only survival tool and that's an aa and was only used sparingly before DoV!</p><p>So, not only is adrenaline worthless as for survival the threat component to it is nerfed as well, ie., it won't crit.  A squishy tank who's threat generation doesn't crit is not a tank at all.  Is there a message here?!?!</p><p>If you want to be useful, especially in raids, betray.  They either don't understand how this class is played or what purpose it serves.  Until a new dev comes along and "gets it", play this game as a guardian, that's the flavor atm.</p>

[Halo of G4]

<p>Agreed, great thread on the things most Zerks are thinking of since the launch of this expansion.</p><p>Sadly I don't think SoE will listen and will just point out that we have some nice AA's. Note to SoE, AA's DO NOT define a class. They are after all "Alternate Advancements"</p>

[Bremer]

Almost forgot about the taunt proc. I added it. Unfortunately, even without crits, it's still the best part on Adrenaline...

[Lcneed]

<p>I know raiders don't care about this, but berserkers are the only fighter sub-class that is missing the avoidance buff after the stats consoildation.   It does make a difference for low level zerkers when the avoidance from agi was taken away and no buff to replace it.</p>

[Bremer]

Unfortunately I can't provide much feedback on that topic. But I think that as long as you don't ask for raid balance you have very good chances for fixes as a Berserker. Just make a thread in the right forum (here or general gameplay)

[SpartanGreen]

<p>Bump.  Maybe it's a fruitless hope but for once I want a dev to actually acknowledge a non-whining, reasonable and well thought out post.  Seriously, it is frustration like this that has caused people to quit in the past.  Fix us SOE!</p><p>We are not asking to become overpowered, we just want abilities that are in line with current content and not ones that were well suited years ago.</p>

[Wyrmypops]

<p>Splendid post, thank you for putting all that together.</p><p>If only SoE had a class dev that understood the classes. Or had people that understood a single class that they were in contact with.</p><p>Feels more likely they'll post which class in any given archetype we should all be playing, seemingly overwhelmed with choice.</p>

[das2000uk]

<p>+1</p><p>Nice post and some very VERY vallied points made there.</p>

[Tekadeo]

<p>Bump</p><p>Very well thought out and well put.</p><p>We don't ask for much, the suggested fixes are very much needed in today's game.  Guardians got hooked up and now it is Berserker's turn.</p>

[Spite]

<p><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Open Wounds</p><ul><li>Since RoK there is no reason to have the spell on the hotbar, because Berserkers got 100 % AE attack as innate ability with the mythical weapon. But Open Wounds hasn't been changed to adress that fact.The spell should be changed to eg multiattack. But this still doesn't adress the general problem, that Berserkers can't benefit at all from AE autoattack effects. With Velious there are lots of items with AE autoattack and everyone can benefit from them except Berserkers. A possible fix would be to turn all AE autoattack above the 100 % cap to multiattack.</li></ul></blockquote><p>I know this is a trivial one and shouldnt bother me as much as it does. But i beleive this issue irks me the most. Maybe its becasue it has existed since Kunark (LU40) which released on November 13, 2007 if i remember correctly.</p>

[das2000uk]

<p>I agree it doesnt look good.  It really does look like our poor Zerkers have taken a right battering since Dov.</p>

[Xelgad]

<div><div><div>Hey guys, thanks for the thread!</div> <div> </div> <div>We've got a bunch of quick fixes for these issues on the way. They'll be live by GU60 at the latest.</div> <div>Most of the changes are pretty straightforward and some are exactly as suggested here, but <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">I did have a question regarding the Death's Door change. I put it in the detrimental effects window, but in order for it to show there, it has to be an uncurable curse. Will that cause more issues than its worth?</span></div></div><div></div><div>EDIT: Looks like I have it working so it does not display near your name, and thus won't confuse healers.</div></div>

[Bremer]

<p>Great news.</p><p>But I think that Death's Door as curse would confuse the healers and some scripts involve uncurable curses. I guess it's not possible to have it as detrimental effect without icon without a code change?</p>

[Zegon]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><div><div>Hey guys, thanks for the thread!</div> <div> </div> <div>We've got a bunch of quick fixes for these issues on the way. They'll be live by GU60 at the latest.</div> <div>Most of the changes are pretty straightforward and some are exactly as suggested here, but I did have a question regarding the Death's Door change. I put it in the detrimental effects window, but in order for it to show there, it has to be an uncurable curse. Will that cause more issues than its worth?</div></div></div></blockquote><p>Glad to hear a response on this, and here's hoping the fixes work!</p><p>Ideally, it'd be best if we just didn't have to worry about Death's Door anymore.  But that's perhaps a little too wishful in thinking.  How about some other detrimental type?  Would incurable trauma interfere less with encounter scripts?  Also, there are times when the detrimental window can also be full of effects, so much so that you cannot see the debuff.  Putting the detriment as a 'top display priority' buff and mantained buff might be most ideal.</p><p>That way it doesn't mess with the healers and it's easy to find.  Assuming you can set the priorites to do just that.</p>

[Xelgad]

<p>Update: Looks like we may have it working without it displaying as an incurable effect</p>

[Zegon]

<p>That's great.  That's where exploding heart should be, then.</p>

[Dethdlr]

<p>I know this may sound obvious, but please take this into consideration when coming up with the changes: </p><p><ol><li>Don't balance zerkers for raids and break them for groups</li><li>Don't balance zerkers for groups and break them for raids</li></ol><div>And making raid geared zerkers good at groups and raids doesn't count.  Heroic geared zerkers should be viable in groups as well once the changes take place.</div><div></div><div>Also, as others have said, nice writeup Bremer.  Thanks for taking the time to put all this together.</div></p>

[Bremer]

<p>Xelgad, can you give a time frame for these changes? I guess quick fixes doesn't mean it gets hotfixed. So what's the GU schedule? Test server end of April, Live servers end of May?</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>honestly, any changes need to get on Test ASAP - and if good, go live ASAP.</p><p>being the tank most pushed out of raids, really sucks.</p><p>our utility is junk, DPS and haste are a mile above cap, we only offer a tiny 5% reuse to the raid, and 3/4ths of our defensive buffs are pointless.</p><p>juggernaught has kinda gotten a second life, with the uncapping of crit, but that still doesnt translate to much of anything in actual use, as the DPS increase is so small, its hardly even noticeable, unless you just truely have horrible amounts of crit.</p><p>the nerf to adrenaline was to severe, for a class with almost nothing to rely on against hard hitting content, this made a already kicked around class, even more looked over.</p><p>if theres Truely any hope going to the berserker, do it early in the expansion - not at the end.</p><p>I want to enjoy every aspect of this expansion now, not 3 months from now.</p>

[Tekadeo]

<p>Another thing I think should get looked into is the cast time on Stunning Roar.  It's a roar.  No need to wind up for this, or have any animation.  Most Zerkers barely ever use this spell as it is mostly because of the cast time.</p>

[Bremer]

I hope the changes include some improvements to the Berserker CAs (taunt components on Jeering Onslaught, Weapon Counter, Rampage or something similar). The part should have been more than a passing mention. The Velious raid gear is very biased towards spell/CA damage, because there's potency on everything, but hardly any multiattack or other melee stuff. This disfavors Berserkers with their melee dependency. More powerful CAs, in line what other classes have, would help fixing this problem.

[Davish_Darkwolf]

<p>/bump</p><p>This class needs some SERIOUS loving and you did a great job with this post</p>

[mlijntje]

<p>Bremer, I love your post, it is great.</p><p>The points you make are right on the mark, they address exactly what work needs to be done on the class. It is quite rare to see such sensible and insightful player input, not asking for ridiculous changes and with good knowledge of the mechanics. I am used to players are just calling out to give them stuff to make them overpowered.</p>

[Zegon]

<p><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>I hope the changes include some improvements to the Berserker CAs (taunt components on Jeering Onslaught, Weapon Counter, Rampage or something similar). The part should have been more than a passing mention. The Velious raid gear is very biased towards spell/CA damage, because there's potency on everything, but hardly any multiattack or other melee stuff. This disfavors Berserkers with their melee dependency. More powerful CAs, in line what other classes have, would help fixing this problem.</blockquote><p>Right, the biggest problems I'm seeing for berserkers right now is berserker combat arts (and fighters in general, although this is most evident with berserkers) are low damage and cast-time abilities.  As such, they lack a lot of the punch the other classes get, and gain by far the least from the focus effects that affect a specific ability (like +10-20% damage to an ability) and potency affects them the least.  With the inaccuracy problems that you have when attacking a mob from the front, this makes tank hate a problem in general thanks to even auto-attack missing far more often than it used to.</p><p>Add in that the focus effects berserkers get for their abilities are weaker than white adornments (+5 DPS mod is less than a white legendary DPS mod adornment, the +C/P/S on the berserk proc is less than a white legendary adornment, 15% extra mitigation from Wall of Rage equates to about +220 mitigation, and so on) and the proliferation of caps on abilities, and there's a lot of things that were good with the class initially that just do not work anymore.  It's evident of neglect that berserkers were able to get by on one ability (Adrenaline), but that got hammered hard with the nerf bat, so now the problems are magnified.</p><p>Almost, but not quite as bad, as problems that have plagued other classes earlier in EQ2's existance.</p>

[TigerLotus]

<p>@Zegon:</p><p>You are right, the Berserkers relayed on their DPS to hold aggro. And the CA where already very weak. So the highest amount of damage came from autoattack. Many of the AA to improve CA damage are practically useless.. increasing the damage of a weak CA by 15% or 25% doesn't make it a strong ability.</p><p>The Guardian in comparison is not dependend on his CA for aggro, he has plenty of possibilities like improved hategaim (3times in aa) and hate-decrease, more taunts and reactive aggro-spells. So the guardian can create much aggro with low dps.</p><p>The Berserker does not have this much utilities to generate aggro without dps. But the new DoV equipment is not supporting the autoattack-dps for tanks. The benefit of potency and critbonus for the weak CA is low.</p>

[LygerT]

<p>just bite the bullet and combine the 3 fighters already by combining the 2 subclasses into a single class. would make changes easier and quicker without all the whining about balance.</p><p>edit: this coming from a 6 year dedicated zerk veteran.</p>

[Destraum]

<p><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Vision of Madness</p><ul><li>When the spell triggers the heal amount while Berserk is so small that you can't survive a single hit, let alone a double attack. And if you aren't Berserk you are dead anyway.The heal amount of the initial tick while Berserk should be doubled and in exchange the duration should be reduced by 1-2 ticks. Or instead of an increased heal amount add a stoneskin trigger.</li></ul><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">I have to disagree with this.  Since the change in SF, the usefulness in VoM has changed greatly.  And with the changes in DoV, it's still proving to be useful.</span></p><p>Wall of Force (TSO AA)</p><ul><li>The 30 % health threshold on the stoneskin is a detrimental effect. Most mobs don't even hit hard enough to get past the health threshold. Initially with Velious this may be the case, but with increased HP and improved damage reduction (critical mitigation) the usefulness of the ability will diminish again.The spell should be changed from physical to all damage, so that you can use it to counter hard AEs. Or if you want to stick with physical damage, reduce the threshold to 10 %.</li></ul><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Not sure I would like to see the 30% threshold changed, but definately add "all damage" to it.  Right now us zerks have nothing to combat against hard hitting AE's like most other tank classes.</span></p><p>Juggernaut</p><ul><li>Wikipedia says, that a Juggernaut is "a literal or metaphorical force regarded as unstoppable". An EQ2 Juggernaut is easier to kill than a non-Juggernaut and you get a tiny DPS boost for that. Crit chance can be capped by gear. So you get an unnamed amount of CA damage (Berserker CAs are very weak) and 5 crit bonus and you'll sacrifice mitigation, HP and defense for it. As with Adrenaline, their is no correlation between benefit and cost.The spell name, duration and recast would make Juggernaut a great candidate for a "Berserkerish" defensive ability. Instead of making the Berserker easier to kill the effect should make the Berserker harder to kill. Eg a Bolster-like effect, that increases HP and size would fit very will with the spell name and could deal with the fact, that Berserkers are the only Fighter without HP buffs. Another possibility would be a big replenishing ward. </li></ul><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">With the Crit cap removed, you might want to revise this part.  While I am not sure exactly how much Crit we will need for end-game raid mobs, this may prove useful in the future.</span></p></blockquote>

[Bremer]

The SF change to VoM definitely made it better, 15 min recast for a 10 % heal and other classes getting 3 min recast, 100 % heal and 2 triggers was a joke. But with Velious the damage mobs deal relative to your total HP has greatly increased, but not the heal amount. So VoM has rather become less powerful. When I take a hard hit (pretty easy without many stoneskin, ward, damage immunity and HP buffs) I don't need a HoT over 8 seconds, I need a heal right now before the next hit comes and kills me. The heal still has a random luck component (Berserk), so I don't think woulnd't be overpowered, if it actually healed for more. just for one tick. Wall of Force definitely got better with Velious, because the raid mobs hit so hard. But still nothing in heroic/PvP/BG content hits hard enough to trigger the effect. The crit part of Juggernaut may sound helpful. But if you can't cap crit chance by gear you are screwed, because you lose way too much DPS. And I think it's entirely possible to reach the necessary crit for HM encounter with HM gear and some adornments. I'd rather rely on that than on a short time buff every 3 minutes.

[das2000uk]

<p>Brilliant post Brem and with a dev on board whos on our side and wants to make changes asap life as a zerker could once again be good.</p>

[Destraum]

<p><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The SF change to VoM definitely made it better, 15 min recast for a 10 % heal and other classes getting 3 min recast, 100 % heal and 2 triggers was a joke. But with Velious the damage mobs deal relative to your total HP has greatly increased, but not the heal amount. So VoM has rather become less powerful. When I take a hard hit (pretty easy without many stoneskin, ward, damage immunity and HP buffs) I don't need a HoT over 8 seconds, I need a heal right now before the next hit comes and kills me. The heal still has a random luck component (Berserk), so I don't think woulnd't be overpowered, if it actually healed for more. just for one tick. Wall of Force definitely got better with Velious, because the raid mobs hit so hard. But still nothing in heroic/PvP/BG content hits hard enough to trigger the effect. The crit part of Juggernaut may sound helpful. But if you can't cap crit chance by gear you are screwed, because you lose way too much DPS. And I think it's entirely possible to reach the necessary crit for HM encounter with HM gear and some adornments. I'd rather rely on that than on a short time buff every 3 minutes.</blockquote><p>I think you may be confusing VoM with UW slightly.  VoM only has a 4 min recast (2 min with AA's) as well as being able to upgrade the healing % with AA's.  Does it heal like other tanks DS's....no.  But I believe this is relative to our self-healing ability as well when you add in all the other factors.  Like I said, just from my personal experience in using it since SF/DoV, it works fine.</p><p>You keep refering to a "cap" as far as crit goes.  Did they not remove the caps on both Crit and MA as well as other stats?  In all honesty, I can't see going above 300% crit atm myself.  But, with SOE, you never know what they may do with end-game encounters.  It is debateable whether or not the Crit chance on juggernaut is still relative.  But, until I see that it is again useles for another expansion, then I would prefer to leave it for the "just-in-case".</p>

[Bremer]

No. I'm talking about VoM. Before SF it had it had a 30 min recast (not 15) , so the recast reduction to 5 min made it definitely better, but still nothing to rely on. And I know that crit chance is uncapped. But You can't get better than 100 % actual crit chance. When you crit 100 % any more crit is worthless. I don't think the crit chance should be removed from Juggernaut, but there should be something on the spell that actually matters when you are at 100 % crit. And it shouldn't have penalties.

[Spite]

<p>My gear got worse and my class issues remain un-addressed by more that lip-service.</p>

[Brdiael]

<p>From playing a scout class for raids after hanging up my zerker. i find there is a huge misconception of tanking. a scout can just as easily tank now, will have less mit but can get very big hp and avoidance wise.</p><p>when a tank dies in raids i immediately grab aggro if no tank get get it. because i got the hp and avoidance to soak up a few hits for another tank to grab aggro. </p><p>now i noticed one peculiar thing, every tank class has one defining ability that makes them unique, pally's heal/dps outburts, sk's death march guardians unmatched aggro control.</p><p>Zerkers will have.... berserk and a heal proc useless in raids and only useful for solo. the ward is also useless in non solo.</p><p>I think thats what makes things harder.  we share the new aa's with the guardian, we became mute. i love my berserker, but i find i use berserk ability to use adrenaline only. juggernaut useless now. the points described are perfect.</p><p>What is missing is still a real defining ability. and tanking survivability if you were to put us with our counter brother the guardian.guardians are master of defense.</p><p>we dual wield. let us have something special for it, or the 2h which i currently like using as single mobs 2h does seem to have a better dps outburst. guardians the master of the 1h and shield. sks's are great for 2h.Berserkers are masters of offense.</p><p>bruisers have 3 stances. def/off/ def with off</p><p>this may seem whiny i get it but it needs to be made clear that our content is outdated. in SF zerkers rocked raiding because of our innate AE, our capable outburst for big mobs in multi encounters, dov is purely single. i find only one line in our warrior tree useful and thats the slayer one. with the caps lifted we have harder time and getting up to bar is not a easy feat. ive seen most berserkers betray.</p>

[aias]

<p><cite>Roehl@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>The SF change to VoM definitely made it better, 15 min recast for a 10 % heal and other classes getting 3 min recast, 100 % heal and 2 triggers was a joke. But with Velious the damage mobs deal relative to your total HP has greatly increased, but not the heal amount. So VoM has rather become less powerful. When I take a hard hit (pretty easy without many stoneskin, ward, damage immunity and HP buffs) I don't need a HoT over 8 seconds, I need a heal right now before the next hit comes and kills me. The heal still has a random luck component (Berserk), so I don't think woulnd't be overpowered, if it actually healed for more. just for one tick. Wall of Force definitely got better with Velious, because the raid mobs hit so hard. But still nothing in heroic/PvP/BG content hits hard enough to trigger the effect. The crit part of Juggernaut may sound helpful. But if you can't cap crit chance by gear you are screwed, because you lose way too much DPS. And I think it's entirely possible to reach the necessary crit for HM encounter with HM gear and some adornments. I'd rather rely on that than on a short time buff every 3 minutes.</blockquote><p>I think you may be confusing VoM with UW slightly.  VoM only has a 4 min recast (2 min with AA's) as well as being able to upgrade the healing % with AA's.  Does it heal like other tanks DS's....no.  But I believe this is relative to our self-healing ability as well when you add in all the other factors.  Like I said, just from my personal experience in using it since SF/DoV, it works fine.</p><p>You keep refering to a "cap" as far as crit goes.  Did they not remove the caps on both Crit and MA as well as other stats?  In all honesty, I can't see going above 300% crit atm myself.  But, with SOE, you never know what they may do with end-game encounters.  It is debateable whether or not the Crit chance on juggernaut is still relative.  But, until I see that it is again useles for another expansion, then I would prefer to leave it for the "just-in-case".</p></blockquote><p>VoM works fine you say?  You serious?  I think alot of us who play the berserker class have gotten accustomed to playing with the illogical restraints they put on this class and deem it "normal" after all these years.  It's like being abused your whole life and you just accept it as normal. </p>

[LygerT]

<p>i haven't really gotten a chance to even look at DoV, but is it once again all single target BS? this is getting old.</p>

[Destraum]

<p><cite>Pandarus@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>VoM works fine you say?  You serious?  I think alot of us who play the berserker class have gotten accustomed to playing with the illogical restraints they put on this class and deem it "normal" after all these years.  It's like being abused your whole life and you just accept it as normal. </p></blockquote><p>Actually, yes I am.  Since the change to it in SF, along with the AA enhancements.  VoM has become a very effective DS for us.  Do I agree with most that it could use some help....sure.  Maybe somehow just remove the berserk requirement is all it would need.  But to say that it is totally ineffectual as a DS is just wrong.  With proper rotation between VoM and UW, Zerkers in a sense have 3 DS's usuable within a 2.5 min cycle.  And if your dying more than that ... well ... either your doing something wrong, or you need better healers.</p>

[Kimber]

<p>Just thought since the majority of Zerks I know DW how about giving us some extra Parry or Block Chance on our Off Hand no mit though.  Give us a real DW spec I guess would be the answer.</p>

[aias]

<p><cite>Roehl@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Pandarus@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>VoM works fine you say?  You serious?  I think alot of us who play the berserker class have gotten accustomed to playing with the illogical restraints they put on this class and deem it "normal" after all these years.  It's like being abused your whole life and you just accept it as normal. </p></blockquote><p>Actually, yes I am.  Since the change to it in SF, along with the AA enhancements.  VoM has become a very effective DS for us.  Do I agree with most that it could use some help....sure.  Maybe somehow just remove the berserk requirement is all it would need.  But to say that it is totally ineffectual as a DS is just wrong.  With proper rotation between VoM and UW, Zerkers in a sense have 3 DS's usuable within a 2.5 min cycle.  And if your dying more than that ... well ... either your doing something wrong, or you need better healers.</p></blockquote><p>I'm always recruiting healers, so send them my way.   I'm not sure what you can do wrong or right with VoM.  I'm not sure that you even see the point of what I'm saying.  I've reread what I posted and I can't see why you claim I said it was ineffectual. </p><p>VoM does it exactly as it says.  It's effective when the stars are aligned your way, if berserk is proccing when VoM is triggered, if berserk is proccing to get the better heal, and if the mob forgets to hit you during the VoM heal.  We are constrained by a proc!</p>

[TigerLotus]

<p>Another thing:</p><p><span ><span >I</span> <span >would</span> <span >like</span> <span >to know</span> <span >from</span> <span >the</span> <span >developers</span> <span >when</span> <span >the</span> <span >improvements</span> <span >of the</span> <span >Berserker</span> <span >can be</span> <span >seen on</span> <span >the</span> <span >test</span> <span >servers. </span></span><span ><span >I</span> <span >think it would be</span> <span >really good</span> <span >if</span> <span >they</span> <span >do not</span> <span >show up</span> <span >there</span> <span >at such short notice</span> <span >that</span> <span >there is no time</span> <span >for</span> <span >feedback. </span></span><span ><span ></span></span></p>

[Talathion]

<p>Blood Rage:It needs to Crit.. Or be effected by potency and heal amount increased to 1500 atleast, mobs are hitting for 30000+.</p><p>Bloodlust: Make it a Self Buff, Add Health (1k-2k) and Strength, maybe 25 Haste and DPS, although it does not matter much.</p><p>Replace Attack Speed on Berserk with Multi-Attack.</p><p>Replace DPS Mod on Berserk with Auto-attack Multiplier.</p><p>Add a Flurry Buff to Destructive Rage VI.</p><p>Our EOF Tree needs a complete revamp, it is the worst tree of all fighters.</p><p>Add a buff to Cyclones that doubles the amount of targets our AOEs and AE Autoattack can hit.</p><p>Make Preservation something useful, its worthless, I don't even bother to cast or pick it up, Make it Passive Damage Reduction (10%)</p><p>The AA "berserk" is useless, i'm berserk all the time anyways, please replace with something we need, like a hate transfer like guardians have.</p><p>Gut Roar is strikethroughed, please make it something reasonable, like a 2-3 hit stoneskin.</p><p>Juggernaught needs to be a defensive spell.</p>

[TumpieBrell]

<p><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><div><div><div>Hey guys, thanks for the thread!</div> <div> </div> <div>We've got a bunch of quick fixes for these issues on the way. They'll be live by GU60 at the latest.</div> <div>Most of the changes are pretty straightforward and some are exactly as suggested here, but <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">I did have a question regarding the Death's Door change. I put it in the detrimental effects window, but in order for it to show there, it has to be an uncurable curse. Will that cause more issues than its worth?</span></div></div><div></div><div>EDIT: Looks like I have it working so it does not display near your name, and thus won't confuse healers.</div></div></blockquote><p>so GU 60 has been announced for mid-May.  Do we wait for then to see these changes, or will they be going to test before then? And can we get any of the notes for feedback?</p><p>Thanks</p>

[Xelgad]

<p>These changes should hit Test with GU60. There should be plenty of time to give feedback on them while they're on the Test Servers.</p>

[TumpieBrell]

<p>Thank you for the reply.</p>

[Brildean]

<p>Also executioners fury in the warrior tree has been worthless for so long.. can we get it to just a temp buff if we drop below 50% it last for like 15 seconds.  instead of being dispelled when your over 50%. one of the dumbest things ever to have on an aa.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>or can you change it to something useful, like...</p><p>Just Damage reduction? 15%?</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Ward Of Rage is worthless, a 298 Ward... Make it 2980 or 1980.</p>

[Boneye]

<p>Maybe I am wrong when I look at the Zerker against the other classes but this is my opinion.</p><p>The crusader classes defining abilities is the fact they can either directly or indirectly heal themselves i.e. with combat arts or direct healing spells.</p><p>The Warrior base classes have always been mitigating and absorbing damage abilities.  The guardian has stayed true to this path however, the zerker has now joined the ranks with the crusader types with their own flavor of healing abilities.  I'd like to see them revert back to what they are suppose to be the archtype of the Guardian just like the Pally is to the SK and so on and so on.  When you look at the Guardian (Warrior class) do you see anything that mirrors the Zerker?</p><p>A special thanks to Bremer for his post it was really refreshing to read such a in depth approach to fixing the class.  We all tend to point out whats wrong because it's so easy, I like the idea of pointing out the solution or possible fix.</p><p>I would also like to agree with many of you that Adrenaline was a solid ability that was slightly over powered.  However, just reduce it's ability!  it was a damage reducing ability which fits in line with the Warrior class type, changing it into a weak healing ability is not what the zerker is about.  Also it is very important that we have some semblance of being able to mitigate large incoming attack dmg otherwise it makes it that much more of a difficult choice to choose a zerk in a MT position.</p>

[Talathion]

<p>I'd Rather it be a 35% Damage Reduction, Reduces all damage done to caster by 450.</p>

[Foofoocudlypup]

<p>I just want to be in the running for a MT position or a DPS position.As stated above, every class has a stated profession. Guardians are masters of defense, ect. Berserkers are supposed to be duel wielding maniacs that can double as a tank if need be. That's what we are SUPPOSED to be.</p><p>At this point, we are a jack of all trades if you will. We are subject to being a half-[Removed for Content] tank or a half-[Removed for Content] dps class. Give me a title of some sort. I'm useless no matter how much time I spend trying to improve my character.SOE, don't be wishy-washy about what kind of character I'm supposed to be. I'm tired of being a last resort addition in a group/raid. Give me an opportunity for greatness.</p>

[aias]

<p><cite>Boneye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe I am wrong when I look at the Zerker against the other classes but this is my opinion.</p><p>The crusader classes defining abilities is the fact they can either directly or indirectly heal themselves i.e. with combat arts or direct healing spells.</p><p>The Warrior base classes have always been mitigating and absorbing damage abilities.  The guardian has stayed true to this path however, the zerker has now joined the ranks with the crusader types with their own flavor of healing abilities.  I'd like to see them revert back to what they are suppose to be the archtype of the Guardian just like the Pally is to the SK and so on and so on.  When you look at the Guardian (Warrior class) do you see anything that mirrors the Zerker?</p><p>A special thanks to Bremer for his post it was really refreshing to read such a in depth approach to fixing the class.  We all tend to point out whats wrong because it's so easy, I like the idea of pointing out the solution or possible fix.</p><p>I would also like to agree with many of you that Adrenaline was a solid ability that was slightly over powered.  However, just reduce it's ability!  it was a damage reducing ability which fits in line with the Warrior class type, changing it into a weak healing ability is not what the zerker is about.  Also it is very important that we have some semblance of being able to mitigate large incoming attack dmg otherwise it makes it that much more of a difficult choice to choose a zerk in a MT position.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with you.  However, I won't go as far as stating that old adrenaline was overpowered.  When it's the only tool you have to counter damage spikes and to make up for the deficiences of our buffs and aas, then no it's not "OP".  I just don't have much hope for them making this class MT viable after what X posted regarding his reasons for nerfing adrenaline in the first place. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Pandarus@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Boneye wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe I am wrong when I look at the Zerker against the other classes but this is my opinion.</p><p>The crusader classes defining abilities is the fact they can either directly or indirectly heal themselves i.e. with combat arts or direct healing spells.</p><p>The Warrior base classes have always been mitigating and absorbing damage abilities.  The guardian has stayed true to this path however, the zerker has now joined the ranks with the crusader types with their own flavor of healing abilities.  I'd like to see them revert back to what they are suppose to be the archtype of the Guardian just like the Pally is to the SK and so on and so on.  When you look at the Guardian (Warrior class) do you see anything that mirrors the Zerker?</p><p>A special thanks to Bremer for his post it was really refreshing to read such a in depth approach to fixing the class.  We all tend to point out whats wrong because it's so easy, I like the idea of pointing out the solution or possible fix.</p><p>I would also like to agree with many of you that Adrenaline was a solid ability that was slightly over powered.  However, just reduce it's ability!  it was a damage reducing ability which fits in line with the Warrior class type, changing it into a weak healing ability is not what the zerker is about.  Also it is very important that we have some semblance of being able to mitigate large incoming attack dmg otherwise it makes it that much more of a difficult choice to choose a zerk in a MT position.</p></blockquote><p>I agree with you.  However, I won't go as far as stating that old adrenaline was overpowered.  When it's the only tool you have to counter damage spikes and to make up for the deficiences of our buffs and aas, then no it's not "OP".  I just don't have much hope for them making this class MT viable after what X posted regarding his reasons for nerfing adrenaline in the first place. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>because he felt like it, IMO.</p>

[Boneye]

Perhaps you are correct, but I at least love the fact they are making some positive changes here. There are so many of our abilities and CA's that have needed a revamp so I'm crossing my fingers these changes are SOLID...

[Triste-Lune]

GU 60 zerker fix (if there are any) will decide if i keep playing (read paying) or not. If the fix are not up to expectation aka : fixing AE auto attack to have a reason to go above 100%, fixing our class defining ca/buff (rampage's hitrate and removing the number of trigger, juggernauth, openwounds, adrenaline back to SF with crit taunt, zerker proc etc) increasing the dmg from the CA, fixing the berserker AA tree to make it seem like spending aa are affecting our character.

[LygerT]

<p><cite>Foofoocudlypup@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>At this point, we are a jack of all trades if you will. We are subject to being a half-[Removed for Content] tank or a half-[Removed for Content] dps class. Give me a title of some sort. I'm useless no matter how much time I spend trying to improve my character.SOE, don't be wishy-washy about what kind of character I'm supposed to be. I'm tired of being a last resort addition in a group/raid. Give me an opportunity for greatness.</p></blockquote><p>i got tired of reading my character the same way, which is why i don't miss playing so much anymore. unfortunately tanks aren't really supposed to be a true DPS class so zerks really have no purpose any longer. if this class does get a buff then it will be short lived since we have been average for many years running. at least with crusaders they sucked and semi deserved something. guards were boring to play outside of MT position, zerks could solo, tank, whatever ok but never really excelled at anything in particular and i doubt really ever will. eventually i just stopped caring to be the best at some aspect of the game and now mainly just enjoy the one thing that the class has always been good at, soloing.</p><p>i begged for changes to many abilities for quite some time, what do you need open wounds for after you get the mythical? agility spec? why have a mythical if not to just save a few AAs for a little more DPS? hell, guards were just shy of us in DPS so why did we have the class at all with poorer defensive abilities shy of one or 2 which were marginally better but not overall.</p><p>eventually i actually started thinking hard about why have 4 plate tanks, it really makes no sense to me anymore and i started to accept the idea of just merging them into 2 plate tank classes to cure the aggravation and get real changes made. but then i thought about how long that might take and then accepted that even that probably would never happen.</p><p>the #1 issue with tanks is we are all too comparatively competetive, always wanting to have the best abilities/dps/whatever. it really will never end but trimming the fat would definitely help.</p><p>if you think zerks are in poor shape, think about the leather tanks... now they have it real bad.</p>

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Lygerr@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Foofoocudlypup@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>At this point, we are a jack of all trades if you will. We are subject to being a half-[Removed for Content] tank or a half-[Removed for Content] dps class. Give me a title of some sort. I'm useless no matter how much time I spend trying to improve my character.SOE, don't be wishy-washy about what kind of character I'm supposed to be. I'm tired of being a last resort addition in a group/raid. Give me an opportunity for greatness.</p></blockquote><p>i got tired of reading my character the same way, which is why i don't miss playing so much anymore. unfortunately tanks aren't really supposed to be a true DPS class so zerks really have no purpose any longer. if this class does get a buff then it will be short lived since we have been average for many years running. at least with crusaders they sucked and semi deserved something. guards were boring to play outside of MT position, zerks could solo, tank, whatever ok but never really excelled at anything in particular and i doubt really ever will. eventually i just stopped caring to be the best at some aspect of the game and now mainly just enjoy the one thing that the class has always been good at, soloing.</p><p>i begged for changes to many abilities for quite some time, what do you need open wounds for after you get the mythical? agility spec? why have a mythical if not to just save a few AAs for a little more DPS? hell, guards were just shy of us in DPS so why did we have the class at all with poorer defensive abilities shy of one or 2 which were marginally better but not overall.</p><p>eventually i actually started thinking hard about why have 4 plate tanks, it really makes no sense to me anymore and i started to accept the idea of just merging them into 2 plate tank classes to cure the aggravation and get real changes made. but then i thought about how long that might take and then accepted that even that probably would never happen.</p><p>the #1 issue with tanks is we are all too comparatively competetive, always wanting to have the best abilities/dps/whatever. it really will never end but trimming the fat would definitely help.</p><p>if you think zerks are in poor shape, think about the leather tanks... now they have it real bad.</p></blockquote><p>..............</p><p>Leather Tanks are AMAZING atm.</p>

[Zegon]

Quick heads-up, some/all of the changes Xelgad was referring to in this thread are now up on test. As this is for discussing live content and not test content, I'll leave it at post, comment, and feedback on it in the test server forums and through the test server /feedback and /bug commands.

[Talathion]

<p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><strong>Berserkers</strong></p><ul><li>Lost Adrenaline no longer prevents Berserk and no longer cause interrupts.</li><li>Adrenal Flow can now be modified by potency. (yeah but they lowered the heal amount by 120%, so its actualy less then before the fix.)</li><li>Rampaging Blow now has a higher chance to hit, cannot be parried, dodged, blocked or riposted. (it still takes along time to cast..)</li><li>Bloodlust now also increases agility. (so..?)</li><li>Destructive Rage now grants Multi-Attack Chance instead of DPS. The value has been slightly reduced. (awsome!)</li><li>Open Wounds now also triggers additional damage to targets within 5 meters of the berserker every few seconds. (worthless)</li></ul><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Wow.. nice fixes... I'm going guardian... berserk and everything is still worthless, i'm so [Removed for Content] atm its not funny..</div><div></div><div>is this seriously ALL we got?!</div><div>No AA fixes...ward of rage is broken..so is juggernaught...</div><div>Our EOF tree sucks...</div><div></div><div></div><div>OK.. so we got a useless AOE .. and 25% MA..... WOOT!</div><div>OH, and adrenaline flow heals LESS now... it heals for 340 after potency...</div><p>I actually think we got nerfed more then fixed...</p><p>everything is broken..</p>

[Triste-Lune]

<blockquote><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;"><strong>Berserkers</strong></p><ul><li>Lost Adrenaline no longer prevents Berserk and no longer cause interrupts.</li><li>Adrenal Flow can now be modified by potency.</li><li>Rampaging Blow now has a higher chance to hit, cannot be parried, dodged, blocked or riposted.</li><li>Bloodlust now also increases agility.</li><li>Destructive Rage now grants Multi-Attack Chance instead of DPS. The value has been slightly reduced.</li><li>Open Wounds now also triggers additional damage to targets within 5 meters of the berserker every few seconds. </li></ul></blockquote><p>I havent had the time to log in test yet due to reinstally test right now.</p><p>So, decent changes on the paper here but will have to see how this works and if indeed adrenal flow has been reduced it s pretty much a slap in the face.</p><p>What i want to see to make us tanks again are fix to wall of force to be usefull against magic damage and reducing the 30% threshold, i d also like to see ward of rage be more potent (2 3k ward disabled when mentoring), many of our AA are obsolete with the change made this expac.</p><p>I would also like to see adrenaline taunt proc crit again, 5 to 8k taunt arent even worth mentionning when raid dps are above 2.5million</p><p>I d like to see some change to juggernaught or it s AA to enhance it further just fyi a single piece of item grants more crit bonus than 5aa spent into it.</p><p>Could you add stamina aswell as agility to Bloodlust in order for berserker to get the HP buff they have been missing compared to other tanks.</p><p>I will comment more once i ll have been able to test deeply (2hours left on Test re-installation)</p>

[Talathion]

<p>they don't really care about our class... IMO.</p><p>I can tell when they didn't change berserk at all.</p>

[khaymanfr]

<p>I was expecting a real fix, this is very disappointing.</p><p>No change at all on the AA tree <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Darkest Knight]

<p>Adrenaline Still is worthless as a survival tool, Nerf to blood rage is lolwtf ?</p><p>Someone with a red name care to explain how these changes make sense?</p><p> Raidwide MA is neat from the raidwide utility perspective but when it comes to holding onto a mob beating the crap out of us with multi-attacking 30k hits, we have nothing to dampen the blows besides wall of rage @ 10% with its hellacious recast. In fact a dirge has more of a defensive capability to that kind of damage than we do( Veil of Notes). very sad.</p><p>Fix Adrenaline and reverse the change to blood rage. or remove both completely because its near worthless as the changes stand to a raiding Berserker</p>

[Triste-Lune]

Post your comment and feedback in the in testing feedback section please. That s the only place where SOE red name will look for feedback

[Talathion]

<p>I have 90 Potency and I think Blood Rage at 90 should be atleast 2k, AT The MOST, for level 90.</p><p>Adrenaline Still does not critically apply...</p><p>Adrenaline Still Sucks, and drains all my power woo!</p>

[Talathion]

<p>Guardian's got there entire EOF tree Revamped.</p><p><a href="http://www.eq2ref.com/aa/index.php?class=Guardian">http://www.eq2ref.com/aa/index.php?class=Guardian</a></p><p>this is the prenerf guardian tree.</p><p>Zerkers got .. LOL... LOL... k <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[aias]

<p>These are some superficial "fixes".  Does nothing to address the key points of a tank, mitigating damage and generating threat.  Why would we have expected anything more when Xelgad stated that he nerfed Adrenaline so that we would be a flimsy option for MT.  You even have better options for OTs than this class.</p>

[Triste-Lune]

<p><cite>Failathion@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Guardian's got there entire EOF tree Revamped.</p><p><a href="http://www.eq2ref.com/aa/index.php?class=Guardian">http://www.eq2ref.com/aa/index.php?class=Guardian</a></p><p>this is the prenerf guardian tree.</p><p>Zerkers got .. LOL... LOL... k <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>i didnt want to admit it but yes. We are long overdue a revamp of our EoF aa tree to match the guardian one.</p><p>i just checked my old guardian AA tree and wow that s pretty impressive :/</p>

[Bremer]

<p>So GU 60 is here. But unfortunately it didn't really help Berserkers with their core problems. Our offensive abilities still pretty weak, because everything they do is buff stuff further beyond the cap and the defensive abilities are still not properly working with Shamans and raid mobs.</p><p>The changes to Destructive Rage and Bloodlust were long overdue. Destructive Rage was useless since GU13 and Bloodlust since SF, finally it's fixed. The rest (AE proc on Open Wounds, potency affecting Blood Rage, Rampage hitting stuff) is good. But in the sum these changes won't noticably change anything<span>. </span></p><p>I updated the post with the changes. I added CAs in general to the offensive problem (should have been there from the beginning) and removed the utility part, because it was at least in parts adressed. I also enhanced some texts.</p><p>Better luck next GU...</p>

[Triste-Lune]

giving us more MA was great but it doesnt change the fact that we have terrible hit rate. What s the point of 24.2 more MA if you dont hit the mob this fix was just throw out without any though, now guild will prolly want zerker to be there just for this buff. Our core issue (CA class defining ability etc etc) are still here. We need strikethrou&flurry, CA ungrade via EOF tree and a real way to fully mitigate/neglect spike damage

[Talathion]

<p>Juggernaught is still broken.</p>

[Bremer]

Small update, added - The small damage effect on Open Wounds is not affected by the CA damage enhancement of Juggernaut - Total Madness (SF AA) doesn't increase the heal amount in PvP, only in PvE - The initial damage part of Insolence (Insolent Assault) is not affected by ability mod

[Talathion]

<p><cite>Bremer wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Small update, added - The small damage effect on Open Wounds is not affected by the CA damage enhancement of Juggernaut - Total Madness (SF AA) doesn't increase the heal amount in PvP, only in PvE - The initial damage part of Insolence (Insolent Assault) is not affected by ability mod</blockquote><p>I don't cast open wounds, waste of time.</p><p>LOL PVP NERFS</p><p>...........</p>

[Bremer]

<p>Updated for GU61. I removed VoM, because the improved EoF AA, Perseverance and the increased availability of potency should make the spell work more reliable. Also removed Gut Roar, because it is more less fine now. Added Destructive Rage back, because the new MA curves will make the effects useless again. And many tweaks overall. I also added a small summary with the current problems, that deserve the most attention in my opinion:</p><ul><li>Design of the the defensive abilities: The defensive effects are mostly direct heals and thus very inefficient, if your healer is a Shaman or in raid content in general</li><li>Non-pyhsical damage: Berserkers have almost nothing to deal with non-physical damage spikes, only Perfect Counter on a 4 min timer, which is nowhere near enough</li><li>Adrenaline: In it's current state it's pretty much a failed ability, extreme costs combined with limited usefulness</li><li>Berserk proc: With the current dimishing returns curve on haste/DPS there's hardly any gain at all from this class defining abilty</li><li>AOE autoattack: Beserkers have an abdundance of AOE attack effects, that all don't stack while the effect is itemzied more and more, granting a gain to everyone but Berserkers</li><li>Juggernaut: The ability still has mainly effects that were useful in T7, but are no longer useful since T8 and all that with an inappropriate defensive penalty</li><li>CA damage: Beserkers used to excel at melee damage and paid for it with weak CAs, now the melee buffs grant almost no gain, while the CAs stayed weak</li></ul>

[Triste-Lune]

Just taking advantage of the free account reactivation for the week end to say : SOE you really blew it. this class is a joke no one post on these berserker boards nor on the flames boards. some 2 year old thread is still in the front page on flames while every other class boards are active. this fix is nothing a drop in the ocean of the fix needed for the berserker to become usefull again. Thanks for nothing your free weekend is useless i wont pay you anymore. If your forum didnt requiere an active account to post i m sure a lot of people that quit would give you a piece of their mind but i m sure it s your way to pretend there is no problem silence the one you made quit.