Critmit on raid gear lower than on quested gear

[circusgirl]

<p>I was lucky enough to get my first piece of DoV raid gear last night, and noticed something very odd about the item (Cenobite's Irebound Wristwraps).  It only has 15 critmit, despite the fact that legendary forearms slot gear that is far, far easier to obtain tends to be in the 20-25 critmit range.  For example the "Wristwraps of the Ruthless" which can be obtained easily from a player quest gives 20 critmit, and Ettinhide Leather wristwraps, which I got just by questing in great divide provide 24% critmit, despite both of these items being legendary quality gear that can be easily and reliably obtained.  Can we please see the critical mitigation on raid gear increased to at least match or exceed legendary items?</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was lucky enough to get my first piece of DoV raid gear last night, and noticed something very odd about the item (Cenobite's Irebound Wristwraps).  It only has 15 critmit, despite the fact that legendary forearms slot gear that is far, far easier to obtain tends to be in the 20-25 critmit range.  For example the "Wristwraps of the Ruthless" which can be obtained easily from a player quest gives 20 critmit, and Ettinhide Leather wristwraps, which I got just by questing in great divide provide 24% critmit, despite both of these items being legendary quality gear that can be easily and reliably obtained.  Can we please see the critical mitigation on raid gear increased to at least match or exceed legendary items?</p></blockquote><p>You mean raid gear from the last expansion? And this quested legendary gear may have lots of crit mit but the other stats on it are pretty abysmal and they don't even get a yellow adornment slot.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>No, I'm referring to new raid gear from this expansion having less crit mit than new quested/dropped legendary gear from this expansion.  Yes, the raid gear is better in other stats, but given that critical mitigation is a stat that is more important for raiding than it is for solo questing, public quests, or instancing (all of which have dropped items with more crit mit than my new raided forearms) raided gear needs to have higher critmit than gear that is available to a group or a player questing by themselves.</p>

[Banditman]

<p>I noticed similar results.</p><p>I own a set of Legendary plate gloves with a crit mit over 26.  Legendary from this expansion, you would think, should be about on par with early to mid SF raid gear.  Enough to get you started in DoV raiding if you choose, and definitely enough for the heroic instances.</p><p>However, the crit mit seems to be in the realm of DOUBLE on the new stuff compared to most SF raid gear, and significantly more than DoV early raid gear.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>Yeah, something is broken here.</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah, something is broken here.</p></blockquote><p>Yep.The itemization Dev.</p>

[whitenorth08]

<p>This topic is where I am finding things grey and unclear.  When I was on Beta, it was mentioned that 'Crit Chance' was pretty much the focus now, hence you will see much larger percentages on the gear for Crit Chance than what we are used to seeing.  I think most stats have changed now and there is different focus with DoV.  Comments?</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>whitenorth08 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This topic is where I am finding things grey and unclear.  When I was on Beta, it was mentioned that 'Crit Chance' was pretty much the focus now, hence you will see much larger percentages on the gear for Crit Chance than what we are used to seeing.  I think most stats have changed now and there is different focus with DoV.  Comments?</p></blockquote><p>This thread has absolutely nothing to do with Crit Chance.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, I'm referring to new raid gear from this expansion having less crit mit than new quested/dropped legendary gear from this expansion.</p></blockquote><p>Oh, well that's just not right.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>Apparently some of the druid/shaman items have no critmit on them at all >.<</p>

[isest]

<p>Well after the nerf to dov pq stuff today its to the point of rediculious.</p><p>The Boots from the pq chest went from 22% to 6% for the level 90 stuff, and the  level 86 crud from the othmir begining zone quess are at 17% for plate.</p><p>Then you had the same thing for gloves and forarm pieces both gong from 20% to 5%.</p><p>shakes head.</p>

[JoarAddam]

<p>guy needs to start passing what he's puffing</p>

[Dimhammer]

<p>Yeah I noticed this with the Ry'Gorr faction armor too, which is suppose to be Entry level raid gear.  Quested lvl 86 armor from Othmir has more crit mit than the Ry'Gorr stuff.  Makes no sense to me. This is for Monk armor btw.</p>

[isest]

<p><cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>guy needs to start passing what he's puffing</p></blockquote><p>I am not puffing anything.  Its a fact the pq stuff took a neft today.  The boots I had sabatons of demolishg went from crit mit of 22% to 6%.  The Guantlets of demolishing went from 22% to 6% I had the other set thatn went from 20% to 5% but just replaced those.  The Vambraces of Demolishing also went from 22% to 6%.</p><p>The othmir boots were If I remember right at 17% crit mit.</p><p>Dont you think its crazy that the nerf donw the pq stuff to below the stats you get on level 86 pieces.</p><p>To me thats wrong.</p><p>Just stating a fact as I see it,  the went a too far.</p>

[kdmorse]

<p><cite>isest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am not puffing anything.  Its a fact the pq stuff took a neft today.  The boots I had sabatons of demolishg went from crit mit of 22% to 6%.  The Guantlets of demolishing went from 22% to 6% I had the other set thatn went from 20% to 5% but just replaced those.  The Vambraces of Demolishing also went from 22% to 6%.</p></blockquote><p>I think the puffing crack was aimed at the itemization dev, not you.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>isest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>guy needs to start passing what he's puffing</p></blockquote><p>The othmir boots were If I remember right at 17% crit mit.</p></blockquote><p>The quested armor was nerfed too, it has even less than the PQ stuff now.</p>

[PlaneCrazy]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>isest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>guy needs to start passing what he's puffing</p></blockquote><p>The othmir boots were If I remember right at 17% crit mit.</p></blockquote><p>The quested armor was nerfed too, it has even less than the PQ stuff now.</p></blockquote><p>Not unless they slipped a patch in this afternoon while I was playing.  As of 6 hours ago, the othmir bracers and boots had at least double the crit mit as the top tier of legendary PQ gear ( Woe for the plate fighters).  IIRC, the bracers and boots were 24% yesterday and now they are 7% while the quested othmir bracers are like 17.5% and the boots similar.  They may have been nerfed a bit (i really can't remember what they were yesterday) but they are still lots higher then the PQ stuff, which is what I was hoping would be the "starter" set for getting into instances in DoV.  It even has yellow adornment slots.</p><p>I concur on the smoking joke.  Someone at SOE is definitely on the pipe to think this change up.</p>

[Dimhammer]

<p>A red name response to this would be nice.  Was it a screw up?  Or intentional change?</p><p>My crit mit went from 131% down to just 86%.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>Instanced dropped gear still has plenty of critmit--oftentimes close to double what my DoV raid gear has.  Raid gear needs a serious boost in crit mit.</p>

[Calabeth]

<p>I am thinking this is bugged as it only seems to be the boots, gloves and another piece. All of which for me is xxxx of Woe is lower in Crit Mit then the Othmir solo Quested gear.</p><p>Thurs. Patch notes only state "<span >Fixed an issue with PQ armor that was causing it to have crit mit values that were too high." Does not say which pieces as you notice.</span></p><p><span >What I did notice is the armor was only a few points of crit mit higher then the othmir before today per difficulty lvl. Seemed like it was fine to me then. Full Othmir I was about 120ish, full Woe minus the BP *curses the RNG* Was up a bit from there. Pieces from lower difficulty was a little inbetween. So overall I say it seems like a bug to me as a tank with the crit mit of a caster just aint healthy for anyone.</span></p>

[isest]

<p><cite>Calabeth wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am thinking this is bugged as it only seems to be the boots, gloves and another piece. All of which for me is xxxx of Woe is lower in Crit Mit then the Othmir solo Quested gear.</p><p>Thurs. Patch notes only state "<span>Fixed an issue with PQ armor that was causing it to have crit mit values that were too high." Does not say which pieces as you notice.</span></p><p><span>What I did notice is the armor was only a few points of crit mit higher then the othmir before today per difficulty lvl. Seemed like it was fine to me then. Full Othmir I was about 120ish, full Woe minus the BP *curses the RNG* Was up a bit from there. Pieces from lower difficulty was a little inbetween. So overall I say it seems like a bug to me as a tank with the crit mit of a caster just aint healthy for anyone.</span></p></blockquote><p>No its not bugged I turned in a ticket and this was my responce.  Im like wow idiots.</p><p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">This is GM *****. I would be happy to explain what happened to these items the best I can, but unfortunately not being a dev makes my knowledge of the exact details here incomplete. I do know that the live updates made on the 3rd had some changes to public quest armor that was causing them to have crit mit values that were too high. I see that this would affect all of the gear you are listing here. For further details about this your best bet is to actually make a post on our official forums so that a dev can help you further. I wish you the best of luck with all your future adventures!</span></p><p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">So yes I am posting going ok too high and now they dropped it below starter armor from the othmir, somebody needs to do some explaining now.  </span></p><p><span style="font-family: "Times New Roman","serif"; font-size: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">It is a backwards step,  it was not to high, unless there going to also nerf the othmir stuff. </span></p>

[Beef_Supre]

<p>There is a LOT of screwey stuff in terms of how the gear stacks up relatively.</p><p>Like a lot of people I did a bunch of the Solo quests and got all the Legendary stuff I could, then progressed to the Public Quests as the next step up. After I got a full set of Woe armor (<em>minus the non-existant Brawler chest piece, of course! </em><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" />), I weighed it all against the Quested Legendary, and chomped up my Legendary stuff into Transmuting items.</p><p>Now, after the patch, however.. there are pieces of Legendary that are better than the PQ items, in terms of Crit mit! Given how straightforward everything is in terms of progression on other stats, it looks like a bad oversight.. for example, there's a Quested helm with 20% Crit mit, while the PQ Helm has 13%. That's just plain dumb.</p><p>** C'mon, guys.. we don't mind Hot Fixes and Patches in the least, but take a DEEP breath, get it all fixed on paper and be sure you've got it right, and plug it in one last time. No reason to jack with it every other day and get it wrong. **</p><p>Oh, and put the Brawler chest in the PQ's, please, that's just ridiculous. Haste on the Gloves too, like every other class.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>The brawler 2-handed weapon is also missing from the PQ rewards.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p>Just an update: this issue seems to exist only with the raided hands, forearms, and feet items.  Other raid pieces have acceptable crit mit.  Compare the DoV T1 raid items for this slot to the dropped gear in the easier DoV instances (Its the "ettinhide" set for brawlers, not sure what the equivalent set for other classes is called) and you'll see that the dropped gear tends to have a critmit of +24 while these three pieces of raid gear only have a critmit of +15.  Its completely ludicrous for items I got in Forgotten Pools to have more critmit than items I got in raids.</p>

[Omougi]

<p><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just an update: this issue seems to exist only with the raided hands, forearms, and feet items.  Other raid pieces have acceptable crit mit.  Compare the DoV T1 raid items for this slot to the dropped gear in the easier DoV instances (Its the "ettinhide" set for brawlers, not sure what the equivalent set for other classes is called) and you'll see that the dropped gear tends to have a critmit of +24 while these three pieces of raid gear only have a critmit of +15.  Its completely ludicrous for items I got in Forgotten Pools to have more critmit than items I got in raids.</p></blockquote><p>Yep.  That's mainly the slots that this problem is isolated in.</p><p>PQ armor and instance armor was mistakenly given too much crit mit on these items.  Unfortunately, we did not hit all of the bugged items in our previous pass.  There will be a second pass that further cleans up (lowers) the crit mit values on these bugged pieces. Raid gear should undoubtably be the best gear you can get, however, this isn't a case of us lowering the group stuff to make the raid gear stand out. </p><p>These quest/group items are legitimately bugged, and need to be fixed.  This isn't some sort of knee-jerk reaction to us being uncomfortable with player survivability.  All of our content was previously tested and tuned with the correct amount of crit mit.  We are simply lowering the crit mit on these bugged items to what they were when we originally planned this out.  The power of these items is way outside of the line of progression, and they need to be fixed.</p>

[isest]

<p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just an update: this issue seems to exist only with the raided hands, forearms, and feet items.  Other raid pieces have acceptable crit mit.  Compare the DoV T1 raid items for this slot to the dropped gear in the easier DoV instances (Its the "ettinhide" set for brawlers, not sure what the equivalent set for other classes is called) and you'll see that the dropped gear tends to have a critmit of +24 while these three pieces of raid gear only have a critmit of +15.  Its completely ludicrous for items I got in Forgotten Pools to have more critmit than items I got in raids.</p></blockquote><p>Yep.  That's mainly the slots that this problem is isolated in.</p><p>PQ armor and instance armor was mistakenly given too much crit mit on these items.  Unfortunately, we did not hit all of the bugged items in our previous pass.  There will be a second pass that further cleans up (lowers) the crit mit values on these bugged pieces. Raid gear should undoubtedly be the best gear you can get, however, this isn't a case of us lowering the group stuff to make the raid gear stand out. </p><p>These quest/group items are legitimately bugged, and need to be fixed.  This isn't some sort of knee-jerk reaction to us being uncomfortable with player survivability.  All of our content was previously tested and tuned with the correct amount of crit mit.  We are simply lowering the crit mit on these bugged items to what they were when we originally planned this out.  The power of these items is way outside of the line of progression, and they need to be fixed.</p></blockquote><p>Ahem!!  A second cleanup. We already had that last week.  Are we getting a 3rd round???  If so please tell us what items your fixing to give the treatment too.</p><p>The Feet, Writs and Forearms now all have 6% for t2, and 7% for the t3 pq qear, and thats for everybody .  My sk, trouby, defiler, wizard, and Warlock all have the same amount of crit values for the respective gear.</p><p>My main question is why are the tank's not getting more crit mit?  They are supposed to be the meat shield and primary damage taker.  It really does not make much since they have the same critical mitigation that cloth wearers have.</p><p>The only piece that I know that is still buggy is the othmir forearms I know they have like 12% crit mit.  The rest have already been dropped to like 5%.</p><p>So please give us a list of what items your fixing to mess with.  As we already had 2 rounds of fixes.</p><p>I understand you dont need to have the pq armor with better crit mit than the raid armor but the level of the over nerf especially to tank pieces was crazy.</p>

[circusgirl]

<p><cite>isest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Omougi wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Vinka@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just an update: this issue seems to exist only with the raided hands, forearms, and feet items.  Other raid pieces have acceptable crit mit.  Compare the DoV T1 raid items for this slot to the dropped gear in the easier DoV instances (Its the "ettinhide" set for brawlers, not sure what the equivalent set for other classes is called) and you'll see that the dropped gear tends to have a critmit of +24 while these three pieces of raid gear only have a critmit of +15.  Its completely ludicrous for items I got in Forgotten Pools to have more critmit than items I got in raids.</p></blockquote><p>Yep.  That's mainly the slots that this problem is isolated in.</p><p>PQ armor and instance armor was mistakenly given too much crit mit on these items.  Unfortunately, we did not hit all of the bugged items in our previous pass.  There will be a second pass that further cleans up (lowers) the crit mit values on these bugged pieces. Raid gear should undoubtedly be the best gear you can get, however, this isn't a case of us lowering the group stuff to make the raid gear stand out. </p><p>These quest/group items are legitimately bugged, and need to be fixed.  This isn't some sort of knee-jerk reaction to us being uncomfortable with player survivability.  All of our content was previously tested and tuned with the correct amount of crit mit.  We are simply lowering the crit mit on these bugged items to what they were when we originally planned this out.  The power of these items is way outside of the line of progression, and they need to be fixed.</p></blockquote><p>Ahem!!  A second cleanup. We already had that last week.  Are we getting a 3rd round???  If so please tell us what items your fixing to give the treatment too.</p><p>The Feet, Writs and Forearms now all have 6% for t2, and 7% for the t3 pq qear, and thats for everybody .  My sk, trouby, defiler, wizard, and Warlock all have the same amount of crit values for the respective gear.</p><p>My main question is why are the tank's not getting more crit mit?  They are supposed to be the meat shield and primary damage taker.  It really does not make much since they have the same critical mitigation that cloth wearers have.</p><p>The only piece that I know that is still buggy is the othmir forearms I know they have like 12% crit mit.  The rest have already been dropped to like 5%.</p><p>So please give us a list of what items your fixing to mess with.  As we already had 2 rounds of fixes.</p><p>I understand you dont need to have the pq armor with better crit mit than the raid armor but the level of the over nerf especially to tank pieces was crazy.</p></blockquote><p>A lot of really easy to get instanced gear has 24 crit mit on all 7 slots.  I assume they were meant to have 24 critmit on pants/tunic, and that the other slots were mistakenly given far too much.</p>

[Wurm]

<p>Hooray for nerfs instead of fixes!</p>

[Uwopo]

<p><cite>isest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Ahem!!  A second cleanup. We already had that last week.  Are we getting a 3rd round???  If so please tell us what items your fixing to give the treatment too.<p>The Feet, Writs and Forearms now all have 6% for t2, and 7% for the t3 pq qear, and thats for everybody .  My sk, trouby, defiler, wizard, and Warlock all have the same amount of crit values for the respective gear.</p><p>My main question is why are the tank's not getting more crit mit?  They are supposed to be the meat shield and primary damage taker.  It really does not make much since they have the same critical mitigation that cloth wearers have.</p><p>The only piece that I know that is still buggy is the othmir forearms I know they have like 12% crit mit.  The rest have already been dropped to like 5%.</p><p>So please give us a list of what items your fixing to mess with.  As we already had 2 rounds of fixes.</p><p>I understand you dont need to have the pq armor with better crit mit than the raid armor but the level of the over nerf especially to tank pieces was crazy.</p></blockquote><p>3rd round indeed.</p><p>If you have a non-fabled piece of gear with more than 15% crit mit on the boots, gloves or bracers, kiss it goodbye.  If they don't catch it on this round, they will eventually get it.  Means I'm going to lose my 26.5% crit mit backup gloves and bracer...</p><p>At least fix the missing haste on Fighter gloves while you're nerfing the crit mit. </p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>isest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My main question is why are the tank's not getting more crit mit?  They are supposed to be the meat shield and primary damage taker.  It really does not make much since they have the same critical mitigation that cloth wearers have.</p></blockquote><p>Armor type has nothing to do with crit mit, neither does class.  There is absolutly no reason for tanks to have higher crit mit, tanks already have higher mit and far superior defensive abilities and avoidance than any of the other classes.</p>

[vexrm]

<p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>isest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My main question is why are the tank's not getting more crit mit?  They are supposed to be the meat shield and primary damage taker.  It really does not make much since they have the same critical mitigation that cloth wearers have.</p></blockquote><p>Armor type has nothing to do with crit mit, neither does class.  There is absolutly no reason for tanks to have higher crit mit, tanks already have higher mit and far superior defensive abilities and avoidance than any of the other classes.</p></blockquote><p>Let's start with the one good reason for tanks to have more crit mit. THEY ARE BEING HIT MORE. In other news "See Lord Bob." If he crits a few times in a row (which he's been known to do. Constantly.) Any tank in PQ gear (which is STILL better than the gear that drops in the zone) is dead.</p>

[Wurm]

<p><cite>vexrm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Lethe5683 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>isest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>My main question is why are the tank's not getting more crit mit?  They are supposed to be the meat shield and primary damage taker.  It really does not make much since they have the same critical mitigation that cloth wearers have.</p></blockquote><p>Armor type has nothing to do with crit mit, neither does class.  There is absolutly no reason for tanks to have higher crit mit, tanks already have higher mit and far superior defensive abilities and avoidance than any of the other classes.</p></blockquote><p>Let's start with the one good reason for tanks to have more crit mit. THEY ARE BEING HIT MORE. In other news "See Lord Bob." If he crits a few times in a row (which he's been known to do. Constantly.) Any tank in PQ gear (which is STILL better than the gear that drops in the zone) is dead.</p></blockquote><p>I wouldn't argue with the rat... you are only wasting your breath. And you are 100% correct.</p>

[Uwopo]

<p>People are missing the point.  Assuming an encounter is balanced properly, a tank needs no more critical mitigation than anyone else in the raid.  It doesn't matter that the tank is being hit more, since the tank should have more HP, better buffs, more mitigation and more heals being cast on them.</p><p>That said, if an encounter is not balanced properly or if the difficultly is beyond what the raid is capable of, the point of failure will end up being the tank.  The reason it seems like tanks need more crit mit, is because they're taking damange constantly. </p><p>In SF, the difficulty of fights was balanced around a ton of AEs.  Everyone needed the crit mit to survive being one-shotted and the tank pretty much just held aggro.  In DoV, the mobs are hitting like trucks and while the AEs are still significant, outside of fail conditions, they aren't as brutal as SF.  If I remember right, the mobs in the X2 have 75% crit bonus.  That means we need 175 crit mit just to get them down to their base damage.  The only way I could get that much crit mit was with two pieces of "bugged" rageborne armor from Kael with 26.5% crit mit, all the remaining 24% crit mit items from PQ and crit mit adorns on every piece of gear.  Even then, the mobs chew through the tank like they're made of paper.  The rest of the raid just stands behind the mob and soaks up the occasionally AE.. who cares if it crits for a little extra, since they're not being flurried.</p><p>The problem is that the extra crit mit mistakenly put on tank gear this expansion allowed to overcome mobs that are simply hitting too hard.</p>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>vexrm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Let's start with the one good reason for tanks to have more crit mit. THEY ARE BEING HIT MORE. In other news "See Lord Bob." If he crits a few times in a row (which he's been known to do. Constantly.) Any tank in PQ gear (which is STILL better than the gear that drops in the zone) is dead.</p></blockquote><p>Uwopo put it better than I could have so just read this.</p><p><cite>Uwopo@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>People are missing the point.  Assuming an encounter is balanced properly, a tank needs no more critical mitigation than anyone else in the raid.  It doesn't matter that the tank is being hit more, since the tank should have more HP, better buffs, more mitigation and more heals being cast on them.</p><p>...</p><p>The problem is that the extra crit mit mistakenly put on tank gear this expansion allowed to overcome mobs that are simply hitting too hard.</p></blockquote>

[Lethe5683]

<p><cite>Wurm wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I wouldn't argue with the rat... you are only wasting your breath. And you are 100% correct.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, argueing with me is often a waste of time because I am often right when it comes to things that are actual facts and not opinions. When I am wrong I do not hesitate to admit it.</p>