How well will this computer run EQ2?

[RaunII]

<p>I am building a budget machine with spare and free parts, and the only thing I am buying for it is the Ram. I asked a few questions in level 1-9  chat, but wanted to run it by the folks here so I could stop harrassing the people there. I know it will run EQ2, and I am not expecting miracles, so keep in mind this is a budget build, not a top end rig.</p><p>Windows XP Home edition(will upgrade to SP3 and the dual core patch)</p><p>2.2 gig Intel Core 2 Duo processor and EVGA mobo</p><p>4 gigs of PNY low latency ram</p><p>SATA 3.0gbps 10k RPM hard drive (I have a raptor sitting around, not sure if it works, if it doesnt it will be a Western Digital 7200 RPM w/ 16mb cache)</p><p>512MB PNY 8500GT PCI Express video card</p><p>If I have shadows off and flora at a minimum, can I expect a decent frame rate? Eventually I will probably upgrade the video card, but right now I can build this system for cheap. I know there are alot better systems to be had, but I dont even have the couple hundred dollars to put together a better motherboard and processor combo.</p><p>Is this system worth the $60.00 for the ram? I am hoping it will be so I can retire the original computer I built for EQ2 in late 2003(a 3.2 gig pent 4 with 2 gigs of pc3200 ram and a old ATI 512mb AGP card). Even that old machine can run in crowded raid zones and guild halls at 15-25 FPS(on balanced with 2 high character textures, and with shadows,flora, and raid names off), so I am hoping to at least match that, maybe more if I get a better video card.</p><p>Thank you in advance for the advice/help!</p>

[MurFalad]

<p><cite>Riun@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am building a budget machine with spare and free parts, and the only thing I am buying for it is the Ram. I asked a few questions in level 1-9  chat, but wanted to run it by the folks here so I could stop harrassing the people there. I know it will run EQ2, and I am not expecting miracles, so keep in mind this is a budget build, not a top end rig.</p><p>Windows XP Home edition(will upgrade to SP3 and the dual core patch)</p><p>2.2 gig Intel Core 2 Duo processor and EVGA mobo</p><p>4 gigs of PNY low latency ram</p><p>SATA 3.0gbps 10k RPM hard drive (I have a raptor sitting around, not sure if it works, if it doesnt it will be a Western Digital 7200 RPM w/ 16mb cache)</p><p>512MB PNY 8500GT PCI Express video card</p><p>If I have shadows off and flora at a minimum, can I expect a decent frame rate? Eventually I will probably upgrade the video card, but right now I can build this system for cheap. I know there are alot better systems to be had, but I dont even have the couple hundred dollars to put together a better motherboard and processor combo.</p><p>Is this system worth the $60.00 for the ram? I am hoping it will be so I can retire the original computer I built for EQ2 in late 2003(a 3.2 gig pent 4 with 2 gigs of pc3200 ram and a old ATI 512mb AGP card). Even that old machine can run in crowded raid zones and guild halls at 15-25 FPS(on balanced with 2 high character textures, and with shadows,flora, and raid names off), so I am hoping to at least match that, maybe more if I get a better video card.</p><p>Thank you in advance for the advice/help!</p></blockquote><p>As a really rough guess I would say you will be playable with settings between balanced and high (but with shadows off), if I was betting I'd put money on balanced without any tweaking, because my laptop (2.4Ghz core 2 duo, 4 gigs ram and a HD2600 ATI card achieves high settings with no shadows as a playable resolution with FPS generally 20-30 in most overland zones, its certainly very playable and does not feel like it is struggling (except in a couple of heavy zones like Kunzar jungle).That laptop has a slightly faster graphics card too, so I'm sure the 8500 will not be playable with shader 3.0 at all and GPU shadows will be too much on high for sure due to the slight additional CPU loading it will add, you might get them on medium though, I think the card will struggle though.For upgrades with that system I would first look around for a cheap 2.8-3.0Ghz+ CPU to drop in there as I think it would do more for you then a top end video card.  The next upgrade I would consider is the graphics card, there I think something at a Nvidea GTX260/ ATI 4870 or faster in performance is best since with that powerful a graphics card you can run GPU shadows without any noticeable extra loading between min and max GPU shadow quality settings (I do not notice a different in FPS on the 4870), and at least in my experience (with a 3.2Ghz AMD PhenonII 955) I see a performance increase turning shader 3.0 on across the board.But I think that if the CPU is struggling then you will not be able to turn on the extra GPU features, at least that's my best guess so that is why I would go for the CPU upgrade first.  I picked up that T7700 2.4Ghz chip for my laptop for £60 (~$90), intially I was using a T5250 1.5Ghz and running on high performance settings, so upgrading the CPU was a big improvement for me.</p>

[Diamyr]

<p>Edited.</p>

[RaunII]

<p>So that system wouldn't be able to match or outperform a pentium 4 3.2 gig with an old AGP video card and 2 gigs of 3200 type ram? I know that EQ2 is a CPU hog, and isn't really that optimized to run a dual core processor, but considering the RECOMMENDED system requirements are for a pentium 2 gig single core I was hoping to at least match what the 6+ year old rig could do.</p><p>EDIT: also note that I did manage to find a E6500 core 2 wolfdale 2.93 gig per core for another $50 invested. If I buy that processor, can I expect a huge gain from the 2.2 gig per core? Also, I read that the PNY GeForce 8500GT(while an entry level card) does run shader 3.0 well, but is only marginal performance over all since it has only 16 stream proccessors. I am hoping the card can keep up with settings a bit lower(at least untill the newer pci X16 2.0 cards drop a little more in price).</p><p>Keep in mind, I plan to run the game with lowered spell effects, low flora(with no animation), no shadows, 26 characters max(2 on high res and the rest on medium), and lowered water, ect. So while some of the textures will be on high settings, most of the graphic eaters will be off or lowered. Oh, and I am only running 1152x864 resolution. This rig is not going to be expected to run high or ultra high graphics in a raid zone or power a big screen moniter. However, even if those settings are not enough to run the game and ACT and Vent with the 2.2 gig per core processor, I would rather upgrade now then format a week later after I realise the CPU is a big bottleneck.</p>

[Diamyr]

<p>Sorry, I missed the part where you said free or spare parts. I thought you were paying to build a budget machine in which case it would not be worth it.</p><p>Your system may or may not outperform your old one. Yes everything is newer but EQ2 is coded around raw CPU speed, and you're going from a 3.2 chip to a 2.2, that's a very large drop. It would definitely be worth it to try, the ram alone would be very nice I haven't used 2 gigs since.. like 2002. </p><p>Try it and stick with Balanced settings, shadows off, no shader 3.0, no AA/AF. It should be playable at that, and you can adjust settings from there. </p><p>I run: </p><p>ATI 4870 1gb</p><p>8gb PC 8500</p><p>Phenom II X3 @ 2.6ghz</p><p>I play at Balanced settings with no shadows, no shader 3.0 (because it screws over alt-tabbing), 4x AA, 8X AF, 1680 x 1050, and average 20-30 fps in questing areas. This is the bare minimum of playable to me, I hate anything below 35 fps and it's laughable I can run Crysis at maxed settings and see higher FPS than I can run EQ2 while soloing in a overland zone. I can't wait to see what happens when I try to raid. I zoned into Pillars of Flame for the first time last night to try to quest, and left after 2 minutes because I was sitting at 14 fps. </p><p>But the point is I have three cores, a strong last-gen video card, an assload of ram.. and yet EQ2 runs like dog crap because my CPU speed is only 2.6ghz. It will run the first core to 100%, the second to 10-15%, and doesn't touch the third core whatsoever.</p>

[RaunII]

<p>thank you for taking the time to reply, I found a processor for an extra $50, so for a total investment of $110.00 I could have this system:</p><p><span><p>Windows XP Home edition(will upgrade to SP3 and the dual core patch)</p></span></p><p><span><p>E6500 Wolfdale 2.93 gig (per core) Intel Dual Core processor and EVGA mobo</p><p>4 gigs of PNY low latency ram</p><p>SATA 3.0gbps Western Digital 7200 RPM w/ 16mb cache)</p><p>512MB PNY 8500GT PCI Express video card</p><p>I will also most likely wait untill the GT 240 or GT 440 series drop a little more in price and buy one when I see one go for around $50...but unlike the processor, a graphics card (usually) doesn't require a system format.</p></span></p>

[RaunII]

<p>Oh, and one last question, will a thermaltake 430w power supply be able to handle the load that a 2.93 gig dual core processor, 1 sata 7200 rpm hard drive, and a video card like a GT 240 or GT440 would pull? The only power pull will be from 4 low rpm 120mm fans, a stock intel cooler, a dvd rom drive, and the video card, 1 hard drive, and the mother board.</p><p>I was concerned since I heard the Thermaltake power supply I have may only be around 350 watts instead of the 430 advertised. The cards I was looking at say they should handle a 300w supply, so I think I am safe to upgrade if the 8500GT just can't cut it.</p>

[MurFalad]

<p>Well I'm purely guessing on the graphics card whether it can handle shader 3.0 based on my experience with an ATI HD2600 mobility which on my system really struggles to run shader 3.0, and also <a href="http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/radeon-hd-6950-1gb-geforce-gtx-560-ti-gaming-graphics-card,review-32114-7.html" target="_blank">looking at this chart from Toms hardware that gives a rough performance</a> rating for the 8500GT.  I could be wrong and someone else has seen better performance with this card, but the card doesn't appear to be particulary high spec.On the 2.2ghz core 2 duo vs 3.2Ghz P4 I would expect the core 2 to run up to 40% faster clock per clock as a rough guess (the P4 was an awful design, the netburst architecture with its 26 stage pipeline really was trounced by AMD at the time).  Add in also the benefits of dual core which while meagre for EQ2 (others have seen only 15-20% of the additional core being used) also give a good benefit since the operating system can run on the other core, faster ram speed, and I would expect the 2.2Ghz chip to be somewhere close to the 3.2ghz P4 in performance.But if you throw in the 2.93Ghz core 2 duo and I think you have a solid upgrade there which should be playable on high settings at least, and would be enough to run GPU shadows and shader 3.0 if the graphics card is up to it (the ones you quoted sound good stuff).On the PSU the 430W you quoted should be enough, and should even supply a faster graphics card (I'd double check on the web the sort of power draw each card might need, bu the 460 apparently goes as low as a 400W one) but you are getting closer to the limits, thermaltake are a quality brand and should deliver what they say they do.But two things to keep in mind, firstly the closer to the maximum limit you go the noisier the PSU's cooling fans can be, and also the closer to the maximum you get the lower the lifespan of the PSU will be (a lesser worry these days, but it might influence a close decision).</p>

[RaunII]

<p>First of all, thank you so much for all of the replies and help! After much research, I came up with my budget build and ran it through benchmarks today. The final build:</p><p>Windows XP SP3</p><p>Pentium E4500 2.2 core 2 duo processor and Evga motherboard</p><p>4 gigs of Giel low latency ram</p><p>EVGA 9800GT PCI X2.0 video card</p><p><span>Western Digital 7200 RPM Sata 3.0 hard drive w/ 16mb cache</span></p><p>Epevia X-QBOII case and 500 watt power supply</p><p>2 Masscool 120mm (80cfm) and 2 Masscool 80mm (65 cfm) fans</p><p>Masscool 8w553b1m3 90mm ball bearing CPU cooler</p><p>This is far from a top end gaming rig, but it was built very cheap with spare or pre purchased parts, and I don't think I could have built much better for the money invested.</p><p>I found out that the motherboard I had would not support a newer wolfdale dual core (at least, it did not look like it would, and I didn't want to gamble). I ran the benchmark tests, and it performed very well for what it is. The CPU is staying at 25 celcius at idle, 43 celcius was max temperature running 3Dmark or when I ran EQ2 with 5 other programs open at the same time.</p><p>With EQ2 on balanced settings with shadows off, I was able to run 25FPS to 45 FPS while dueling someone in Qeynos Harbor with Windows Media Player, Firefox running a high def youtube music video,  ACT, and thermal monitering software. Keep in mind though, the primary processor was flatlined at full use and the secondary was at 30% usage.</p><p>With bloom enabled, I can run around and quest,ect at 50 to 90 FPS while on balanced with character resolutions cranked, and zone load times are about 3 to 6 seconds, so I am happy for this kind of performance from several generation old technology.</p><p>I also may upgrade the CPU cooler at some point and slightly overclock the processor to see if I can keep the settings on balanced without the primary processor flatlined(might not make a difference in anything other than a few more FPS and added heat).  At any rate, for what it is, it runs the game quite well in my opinion.</p>

[TSR-JoshuaM]

<p>That is a great amount of performance from such a cost effective set up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I am impressed!</p>

[Diamyr]

<p><cite>Riun@Everfrost wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>First of all, thank you so much for all of the replies and help! After much research, I came up with my budget build and ran it through benchmarks today. The final build:</p><p>Windows XP SP3</p><p>Pentium E4500 2.2 core 2 duo processor and Evga motherboard</p><p>4 gigs of Giel low latency ram</p><p>EVGA 9800GT PCI X2.0 video card</p><p><span>Western Digital 7200 RPM Sata 3.0 hard drive w/ 16mb cache</span></p><p>Epevia X-QBOII case and 500 watt power supply</p><p>2 Masscool 120mm (80cfm) and 2 Masscool 80mm (65 cfm) fans</p><p>Masscool 8w553b1m3 90mm ball bearing CPU cooler</p><p>This is far from a top end gaming rig, but it was built very cheap with spare or pre purchased parts, and I don't think I could have built much better for the money invested.</p><p>I found out that the motherboard I had would not support a newer wolfdale dual core (at least, it did not look like it would, and I didn't want to gamble). I ran the benchmark tests, and it performed very well for what it is. The CPU is staying at 25 celcius at idle, 43 celcius was max temperature running 3Dmark or when I ran EQ2 with 5 other programs open at the same time.</p><p>With EQ2 on balanced settings with shadows off, I was able to run 25FPS to 45 FPS while dueling someone in Qeynos Harbor with Windows Media Player, Firefox running a high def youtube music video,  ACT, and thermal monitering software. Keep in mind though, the primary processor was flatlined at full use and the secondary was at 30% usage.</p><p>With bloom enabled, I can run around and quest,ect at 50 to 90 FPS while on balanced with character resolutions cranked, and zone load times are about 3 to 6 seconds, so I am happy for this kind of performance from several generation old technology.</p><p>I also may upgrade the CPU cooler at some point and slightly overclock the processor to see if I can keep the settings on balanced without the primary processor flatlined(might not make a difference in anything other than a few more FPS and added heat).  At any rate, for what it is, it runs the game quite well in my opinion.</p></blockquote><p>Glad to hear it.</p><p>Be nice if you could do the test in this thread: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=444036">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=444036</a> and report the results.</p>

[RaunII]

<p>I have been experimenting with settings and setups, and I overclocked the processor slightly to 2.4gig, and my CPU temps actually went down(the cpu cooler is a 3 prong, so the rpm is the same). The only thing I can say about that is either the Antec Formula 5 has set up, or with the processor running faster it is loaded less. I left the CPU voltages and ram timings alone(the bios is using automatic settings), and I am tucking the wires away and changing some of the case fan set ups, my goal is to get below 40 degrees celsius with it clocked at 2.4 gig. I will look through the thread, is it a benchmark program like 3dmark?</p><p>EDIT: overclocking the processor to 2.4 netted another 10 frames per second, and my CPU usage for the primary core is no longer flatlined when on balanced settings.</p>

[MurFalad]

<p>Very nice performance there, it does look like a 2.8Ghz+ CPU is still your best bet for good performance, but since you are running it at the same speed (or a bit faster) then my laptop's T7700 I'm guessing high settings without shadows would be very playable now, and it does look great!</p><p>One quick note, on the link to the "How is EQ2 performing for you" you put in a post, but I think you didn't follow the instructions on the first page (everyone puts in a FPS reading at a particular setting - high, and at a specific location - the docks at the Moors of Ykesha facing towards the rest of the Gnomish zone standing on the second grate in first person view).</p><p>With the information from that its a great resource for getting a rough idea how different setups perform.</p>

[RaunII]

whoops! you are right, i didn't even look at that! thanks for catching that, I am going to edit that post and fix it. A faster CPU would definitely help, when I ran 3dmark, the bottleneck is the CPU, and scored a fraction of what the video card scored. I don't think this older EVGA board can run the newer Wolfdale processors even though it will support their FSB speeds. I didn't want to risk gambling my tight budget on a maybe, so the money was spent loading up on fast/stable ram and a EVGA 9800GT. I am going to load up EQ2 now and follow the instructions and edit the post with my actual FPS! Thank you again!