Where do players congregate?

[nerrollus]

<p>In EQ1 players used to all congregate in North Freeport, East Commons Tunnel, and later Plane of Knowledge.  Are there any areas like that in EQ2 where players congregate?</p><p>I like milling around in populated areas looking at all the cool weapons, armor, and other toys that the high levels drag in from all over the world.  Just doesn't seem like I'm able to find anywhere that players hang out.</p>

[Bre]

<p>Most people hang out in their guild hall when not active.</p><p>The nearest I've found to a busy city is Paineel in Sundered Frontier, with people passing through rather than hanging around.</p>

[Lannan]

<p>If people are hanging out anywhere, it's mostly in the guild halls. The guild halls have everything you need, druid ports, wiz spires, bell, port to your house, broker, bank, trade skill tables, etc...</p>

[NrthnStar5]

<p>This does not exist in EQ2. Something that is quite honestly, sorely missing.</p>

[Jaremai]

<p>The biggest congregations I've seen lately would be in Stonebrunt Highland at the pad where Erudin Library, Research Halls, Palace are.  Sometimes a raid-sized force will gather there, or people will just go afk.</p><p>With Frostfell going on, there's usually some people around Santa Glug's island there.  Otherwise.. yeh most people hang out in their guildhalls.</p><p>The RP servers might have some specific hangouts designated though.</p>

[Gisallo]

The advent of guild halls had one bad effect, it killed the congregating in QH etc. I personally think this contributes to the dirth of new players. New players weren't falling from the sky mind u, but MMO's grow based on the sense of size and community new players observe. It may have benefited SOE to not introduce exclusive guild halls and instead make community halls alla private clubs where guilds of lvl x can pay y status and plat for membership (use of the amenities), kinda like a country club. U would have had the amenities based on guild level. This would have still encouraged the same things but also maintained a sense of community. Can't put the genie back in the bottle though.

[MurFalad]

<p><cite>NrthnStar5 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This does not exist in EQ2. Something that is quite honestly, sorely missing.</p></blockquote><p>It is the downside of having housing/guildhalls, although the benefit I see for guildhalls is that everyone you see there is relevant socially since they're your guildies.</p><p>On the plus side though I don't have to login to a heavy lag spot somewhere, in that other game which does not have housing/guildhalls I got to the point of binding my hearth stone somewhere far away since there was no social interaction going on in the main city anyway and I could get into the game 1-2 minutes faster.</p><p>The fact that due to no appearance gear (and its low res art style) too many people looked the same didn't help either...</p>

[Embret]

<p>This is the one thing that bothers me about the Guild Halls.  I love them, they are very handy, everything I need in one spot.  However, I miss the sense of community I used to get hanging out at the broker in Qeynos Harbor and watching the hustle and bustle of people going to and from the bells, carpets, etc at the docks.  It's not game breaking for me, just saddens me a bit.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>in level 1-9 chat.</p><p>Guild halls provide the necessary access to certain amenities but in no way promote nor hinder social interaction. People seem to forget the multitude of toons standing around in Qeynos Harbor and East Freport merely creating lag while they ran broker bots or just wanting to show off their uber loots from last nights raid. Neither of which promoted any social interaction. </p><p>It would seem that "social congregation" has and will continue to occur in level 1-9 chat with the exception of those that stay to their friends and guildmates. And those people will not likely socialize with you regardless unless you are in one of those groups.</p>

[Embret]

<p>I actually met people at the broker, was invited to PUG's, even to a raiding guild that I joined and had a great time with back in the day.  I never noticed much (if any lag) even when I run three instances of the game on my computer.</p><p>I never realized the 1-9 chat was used as a general channel....I'm going to re-enable that channel tonight and see what happens.</p>

[Andok]

<p>If people really enjoyed congregating in Qeynos Harbor (or wherever), they would still do it because nothing stops us from still doing that now.  It's way more fun to congregate with friends in our guild halls, and neutering guild hall amenities to bring us back to QH (or wherever) would be a big step backwards.</p>

[Seiffil]

<cite>Nehamiah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is the one thing that bothers me about the Guild Halls.  I love them, they are very handy, everything I need in one spot.  However, I miss the sense of community I used to get hanging out at the broker in Qeynos Harbor and watching the hustle and bustle of people going to and from the bells, carpets, etc at the docks.  It's not game breaking for me, just saddens me a bit.</p></blockquote> The only problem I have with this thought is that you didn't really see a ton of activity going on with those characters all clustered next to the broker. I don't see much of a sense of community in 10-15 afk people standing in one spot. Even if they're not afk, they're using the broker, and not necessarily interacting with any of the people standing next to them. Even to the OP talking about how everyone used to congregate in various zones. Once they introduced the bazaar functionality to the game, the vast number of people who used NFP (On Veeshan, most business was conducted there rather then in EC) for the central hub dropped significantly, mainly cause even though people could use the bazaar it was also one huge lagfest. One of the bigger things that allowed a sense of community to develop in EQ1 is the lack of something that EQ2 has had since I believe it started. When EQ1 was released and I think it was until at least PoP expansion, they didn't have serverwide chat channels. If you wanted to build a group, you'd go through guild, check with friends, and then go to the zone you actually wanted to a build a group for. People clustering in the Sebilis or Velketor's Lab zone ins trying to find groups or find people to fill in their groups. While guild halls and the recent change to make traveling ridiculously easy and convenient, the even bigger feature that allowed for this to occur is the chat channel system that we currently have. Most just ignore that fact since they've never known the game without it and probably can't recall EQ1 without it either.

[hellfire]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If people really enjoyed congregating in Qeynos Harbor (or wherever), they would still do it because nothing stops us from still doing that now.  It's way more fun to congregate with friends in our guild halls, and neutering guild hall amenities to bring us back to QH (or wherever) would be a big step backwards.</p></blockquote><p>It not more fun ..its more convenant.IMO guild halls killed any development towards citys.Regardless if you viewed citys as places where people went afk...its the same as guild halls. I remember hanging with dozens of people in the citys..... dueling bsing and so on and so forth and that is gone with people holed up in there individual guild halls.</p><p>If you brought everything out of the guild halls  and put them into the citys..... the citys would be more alive and well then even the most busy guild hall.</p><p>Amenitys in guild halls killed city congrugation period.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p>Yeah, I used to avoid Qeynos Harbor entirely because of all the lag. Having so many folks standing around AFK, some clustered so tightly around the broker that you can't even see it -- that wasn't "community," that was just aggravation. A community is an interactive experience... and being AFK is not being very interactive <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />  Like Andok said, if people really wanted to continue loitering in the Harbor, they'd still be doing so.</p>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>Iskandar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah, I used to avoid Qeynos Harbor entirely because of all the lag. Having so many folks standing around AFK, some clustered so tightly around the broker that you can't even see it -- that wasn't "community," that was just aggravation. A community is an interactive experience... and being AFK is not being very interactive <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />  Like Andok said, if people really wanted to continue loitering in the Harbor, they'd still be doing so.</p></blockquote><p>I rmember more then just afk people sorry ... i remember prime time befor and after raids of 2-3 dozen+ people definetly not afk.</p><p>Nope why would they go to the city now?....everything that is needed is in guild halls as i said convience.</p><p>There are still people that go to the citys...you see people there for the BGs and chronomancer...i would bet the farm you put those NPCs in guild halls  you would get those people that go to  the citys go to the guild halls for those also.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If people really enjoyed congregating in Qeynos Harbor (or wherever), they would still do it because nothing stops us from still doing that now.  It's way more fun to congregate with friends in our guild halls, and neutering guild hall amenities to bring us back to QH (or wherever) would be a big step backwards.</p></blockquote><p>It not more fun ..its more convenant.IMO guild halls killed any development towards citys.Regardless if you viewed citys as places where people went afk...its the same as guild halls. I remember hanging with dozens of people in the citys..... dueling bsing and so on and so forth and that is gone with people holed up in there individual guild halls.</p><p>If you brought everything out of the guild halls  and put them into the citys..... the citys would be more alive and well then even the most busy guild hall.</p><p>Amenitys in guild halls killed city congrugation period.</p></blockquote><p>Sure guildhalls are more convenient, but they are also more fun.  If so many people enjoyed just hanging out in cities like some people claim, then they would still be doing it now.  We can get from our guildhall to a city in one click.  Are you claiming that one click is too much of an inconvenience for the spectacular fun of loitering around a city?  </p>

[Dareena]

<p>You can still find very small groups of people in the TD city area.  The upper region of the city has all of the player housing, crafting, banking, and brokering.  Though people certainly don't hang out there like they did in RoK, you'd be able to see people at the very least.  This is an advantage that some of the newer and more compact cities have over the original cities that everything spread over many zones.</p>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Are you claiming that one click is too much of an inconvenience for the spectacular fun of loitering around a city?  </blockquote><p>It sure is...people hate zoning unless there is a reason to do so...if you have everything you need in one place then there is no need to go there.</p><p>OK i will reverse this argument.</p><p>Since it is sooo much fun to hang out in the guild hallthen taking away all the animities and  containing them just in the citys wont have a impact on where people go and hang out.....after all its just 1 click away to get back to your guild hall.</p>

[Katz]

<p>I see people in the broker/banker/crafting area at the docks in South Freeport.  Probably not in the numbers you are talking about though.  </p><p>The only way to get people to hang out (congregate) in areas outside the guild hall is to give them a reason to go there.  Not sure what reason they could come up with, but it would have to be an ongoing reason.</p>

[Gisallo]

These games are about incentives. People go for convenience. Thi doesn't mean people would not take advantage of being in the more socially inclined environment. As for lots being afk yeah there were a few, but especially post raid I remembered a lot more peeps hanging out, talking, dueling and just have fun. That to me was an MMO. Guild halls have made this game more akin to a first person shooter or xbox live where u are with the same exact people until u "queue up" for something.

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Katz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I see people in the broker/banker/crafting area at the docks in South Freeport.  Probably not in the numbers you are talking about though.  </p><p>The only way to get people to hang out (congregate) in areas outside the guild hall is to give them a reason to go there.  Not sure what reason they could come up with, but it would have to be an ongoing reason.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, because I really do miss the incredible lag of a bunch of players idling in Qeynos Harbor. The awesome glory days of yore, when your FPS would drop to 8 and a bunch of random AFKers you didn't know crowding around the broker, hoping that you could find that one, unobscured pixel so you could check on your sales. And let us not forget the self-appointed heralds who would /shout obcenities or just random nonsense for our entertainment. Truly, those were halcyon days.</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> Are you claiming that one click is too much of an inconvenience for the spectacular fun of loitering around a city?  </blockquote><p>It sure is...people hate zoning unless there is a reason to do so...if you have everything you need in one place then there is no need to go there.</p><p>OK i will reverse this argument.</p><p>Since it is sooo much fun to hang out in the guild hallthen taking away all the animities and  containing them just in the citys wont have a impact on where people go and hang out.....after all its just 1 click away to get back to your guild hall.</p></blockquote><p>Because the cities are not fun.  I suppose people that enjoy finding a banker or broker in the middle of a mass of enlarged ogres on mounts would disagree, but I doubt there are many people like you.</p><p>If you like looking at me so much, how about this - whenever someone enters their guildhall, the game places a replica of their character next to (or on top of) a random city banker/broker.</p>

[Kordran]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If you like looking at me so much, how about this - whenever someone enters their guildhall, the game places a replica of their character next to (or on top of) a random city banker/broker.</blockquote><p>They could even add some "Eliza" like AI to your replica, on the odd chance that some new player will actually try and talk to you.</p><p>Player: supReplica: Hello, how are you?Player: goodReplica: How do you feel about being good?Player: fineReplica: Are there any times that you aren't fine?Player: what?Replica: Did my question confuse you?Player: ur whackReplica: How do you feel about being whack?</p><p>Yes, I can feel the immersion already. Rothgar, make it so!</p>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Because the cities are not fun.  I suppose people that enjoy finding a banker or broker in the middle of a mass of enlarged ogres on mounts would disagree, but I doubt there are many people like you.</p><p>If you like looking at me so much, how about this - whenever someone enters their guildhall, the game places a replica of their character next to (or on top of) a random city banker/broker.</p></blockquote><p>They were fun and it seem there are other people that agree....when there was many people in QH befor and after raids it was more then just afk doing nothing.</p><p>Let me guess you are one of the people that had a ancient comp back then that couldnt handle 3 dozen people  in one place at one time...im sorry perhaps now years later with upgraded comp that is no longer a issue....gratzy.</p><p>I never had  such a slow down  in the citys...thats why it was a favorite place for people  to duel cause of roaming gaurds and such.Hell there used to be multiple duels going on   didnt really notice anyone complain about any lag at all.</p><p>Funny thing is you see many threads about ...guess what...lag in the guild halls.Some things dont change...now its just more people are spread out holed up in the "fun" zone of convience. I go into guild halls....know what i see....afk peoples.</p><p>No cheeseburgers in paradise i guess.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p>The broker/banker area in Paineel used to get a decent amount of traffic.</p>

[Gisallo]

Bigron hit the nail on the head as usual. People hang in the guild halls because of the amenities period. People go afk there in front of the broker all the time. Unless ur guild hall is about naked, since it acts like housing zoning and wating for stuff to render is just as bad if not worse than QH ever was. Point is though u click on your door and DING u are next to th porter to the broker. No need to zone. However take that stuff away and I would bet that suddenly city calls would be right back in the harbor again. Hey I like my guild hall. Its convenient as heck. Let's not fool ourselves though. GH were created as an incentive to grind and as a plat sink. Thing is the stuff is not expensive enough. I know of crafting guilds with t8 guild halls and crafting in allegedly dead. They were nolt put in because the cities were SO horrible. That is called historical revisionism

[Kordran]

<p>Guildhalls were added to the game because players wanted them. In fact, I think they were included as part of the original design for EQ2, but didn't make the feature cut at launch in 2004. The emptying of the cities was an unintended consequence, I'm sure, but anything SOE would add to make cities "in demand" again would immediately be met with a hue and cry from the masses, demanding that whatever it was also be made available as a GH ammenity.</p>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>Galibier@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>They were nolt put in because the cities were SO horrible.</blockquote><p>They was suppose to be a game feature when game first  released as well as fellowships.But of corse they was scrapped like many things cause the game wasnt ready for release when it did release.</p><p>Citys wasnt horrible as other have pointed out it a way to kill 2 birds with one stone with  the final implimication of the guild hall feature as well as  placating the laziness factor of people.It was a success to a degree of killing a whole aspect of the game or any type of social melding.</p><p>Wonder if they will add the dynamic feature of the guild hall where it gets attacked  and you actually need the guild hall guards?</p><p>Probably not cause to many people would complain that they had to  leave the lazy oasis  to use a animity in a town ....ooo noez i have to leave my dungeon and go out and see people outside of my guild <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .</p><p>I guess its bad enough with frostfelled...im sure people want a frostfelled cabinat as well as a zone in door to the icy keep as guild hall animities becuase people dont like getting hit with a snow ball in the village of frostfell.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>The main benefit of guild halls was originally the travel amenities, which hardly matter now with the travel revamp (and CoV and such).</p>

[Andok]

<p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Because the cities are not fun.  I suppose people that enjoy finding a banker or broker in the middle of a mass of enlarged ogres on mounts would disagree, but I doubt there are many people like you.</p><p>If you like looking at me so much, how about this - whenever someone enters their guildhall, the game places a replica of their character next to (or on top of) a random city banker/broker.</p></blockquote><p>They were fun and it seem there are other people that agree....when there was many people in QH befor and after raids it was more then just afk doing nothing.</p><p>Let me guess you are one of the people that had a ancient comp back then that couldnt handle 3 dozen people  in one place at one time...im sorry perhaps now years later with upgraded comp that is no longer a issue....gratzy.</p><p>I never had  such a slow down  in the citys...thats why it was a favorite place for people  to duel cause of roaming gaurds and such.Hell there used to be multiple duels going on   didnt really notice anyone complain about any lag at all.</p><p>Funny thing is you see many threads about ...guess what...lag in the guild halls.Some things dont change...now its just more people are spread out holed up in the "fun" zone of convience. I go into guild halls....know what i see....afk peoples.</p><p>No cheeseburgers in paradise i guess.</p></blockquote><p>I think you meant to reply to someone else - I never complained about the lag. Even if I had lag, I would rather have it in a guildhall full of friends than in a city with people who rarely interact with strangers. </p>

[Dasein]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The main benefit of guild halls was originally the travel amenities, which hardly matter now with the travel revamp (and CoV and such).</p></blockquote><p>Except you cannot get to SF without using the spires/druid rings, which just so happen to be amenities. Perhaps each city should have a spire and druid ring along with bells?</p>

[Embret]

<p><cite>Andok wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If people really enjoyed congregating in Qeynos Harbor (or wherever), they would still do it because nothing stops us from still doing that now.  It's way more fun to congregate with friends in our guild halls, and neutering guild hall amenities to bring us back to QH (or wherever) would be a big step backwards.</p></blockquote><p>I would never advocate this or any "forced" congregating.  I was simply stating that I used to love it.</p><p>I don't think it should be forced and I love the guild halls, I just miss the city sometimes.  Someone mentioned duels...I used to really love them and even participated a few times.  (Conjy>Wizzy....lol.)</p><p>Edit: I never, ever, saw this lag everyone speaks of.  I never had problems clicking the broker either.  I've only seen lag in a couple of raid zones when I left my graphics on 100% and a couple of times when there were system issues, but lag is a non-issue for me.</p>

[Rivank]

<p>I just figured everone who wanted to socialize did in 1-9 chat whilst they go about the rest of their buisness!</p>

[Tallithia]

<p>Right now I see alot of folks in frostfell.  But Kelethin usally has some hangin around on the Oasis server.</p>

[Pakhet]

<p>My memories of QH broker... people sitting on top of the broker, popping druid rings, summoning food/water to fill your bags, clerics casting odyssey on random people because they can. New players, or trolls on low level alts, begging plat and annoyingly not going away if you said no. Lag and slow zone times going into the harbor because everyone was sitting there.</p><p>I much prefer sitting in my guild hall when I need to look at the broker lol </p>

[nerrollus]

<p>Well, that's a shame that there's no public places people get together anymore.  I know there were problems, but I do miss having congregation areas, not to really socialize (IE: the 1-9 channel), but to just see people. </p><p>I LOVE playing MMORPG's because all the other people make it seem like a living world and not just a static map of NPC's.  I solo level 99% of the time, but while I'm out exploring I like seeing other people around.  Guild Halls may be really convenient, but it's a [Removed for Content] shame they're taking people out of the world. </p><p>I was leveling up a new character in Kelethin the other day and I didn't see another player for HOURS.  Even after I started traveling around and going to other areas, it was super rare to see anyone in the world.  That just seems crazy and sad to me ...</p><p>This is on Guk, so maybe the merge will populate some areas.</p>

[Porcelina]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>in level 1-9 chat.</p><p>Guild halls provide the necessary access to certain amenities but in no way promote nor hinder social interaction. People seem to forget the multitude of toons standing around in Qeynos Harbor and East Freport merely creating lag while they ran broker bots or just wanting to show off their uber loots from last nights raid. Neither of which promoted any social interaction. </p><p>It would seem that "social congregation" has and will continue to occur in level 1-9 chat with the exception of those that stay to their friends and guildmates. And those people will not likely socialize with you regardless unless you are in one of those groups.</p></blockquote><p>Totally!!! I started at launch (got my own account shortly after). I only went to QH if I absolutely needed to; If I needed to visit the blackmarket or was working on my AQ. I had to zoom in to first person view, stare at the cobbleston road and auto-follow my BF at the time. The lag was awful!</p><p>I never got a group from the zone though. I never got socialising from the zone either. I got almost all of that from /lfg or /ooc. The only thing I really got from that zone was on my druid - waiting for people wanting to buy a druid port.</p>

[Zorastiz]

<p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The main benefit of guild halls was originally the travel amenities, which hardly matter now with the travel revamp (and CoV and such).</p></blockquote><p>Except you cannot get to SF without using the spires/druid rings, which just so happen to be amenities. Perhaps each city should have a spire and druid ring along with bells?</p></blockquote><p>Take the world bell to Enchanted lands, it has all 3 modes of transportation, mailbox etc, no need for a guild hall from a transportation standpoint.</p>

[Shassia]

<p>There are ways they could induce people to congregate more if they so choose. It would just take some creativity.</p><p>They could make a zone which is pretty much a big, fancy tavern. It has a bar of course, so you can get sloshed, but the main attraction is the "duty free" shop. It's a broker that only holds ten items (not bags, individual items) and does not connect with any other broker, but it charges no commission.</p><p>Throw in a daily quest, or a scalable instance, with special currency rewards that you can spend on acquiring T5 and/or T7 recipe books, along with one useful provisioning recipe per tier. The new provisioner recipes are a bit more powerful than the old standard, but can only be crafted using the facilities there.</p><p>An enterprising Gigglegibber has also set up a game where you can actually play the lottery game as a group. Everyone who puts money in before the reel is spun (which happens every few minutes) gets a share of the potential pot, and everyone's numbers count for everyone. When a jackpot is won, money is showered everywhere as a fanfare plays.</p><p>So, I dunno, that was off the top of my head. You could nitpick any of those ideas to death, I'm sure, but the main point is that if enough people wanted an excuse to congregate that there are ways to encourage it.</p>

[Shassia]

<p><cite>Zorastiz@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Dasein wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The main benefit of guild halls was originally the travel amenities, which hardly matter now with the travel revamp (and CoV and such).</p></blockquote><p>Except you cannot get to SF without using the spires/druid rings, which just so happen to be amenities. Perhaps each city should have a spire and druid ring along with bells?</p></blockquote><p>Take the world bell to Enchanted lands, it has all 3 modes of transportation, mailbox etc, no need for a guild hall from a transportation standpoint.</p></blockquote><p>Moors of Ykesha is even better, it literally has everything clustered in one spot. All three modes of transportation, broker, banker, tradeskill stations and writs, everything.</p>

[Gisallo]

Porcelina, if u had to AF someone it sounds like we again hve an issue with someone's machine or internet connection back in the day. I remember having to be in first person view all the time in EQ. That was because I had a 14.4 and not 28.8 modem and a pos computer though. Lag was never an issue with an adequete system. People forget that at launch the game was designed essentially, to be run in basic settings on the best comps of the time if u had even an average system u would have problems on occassions. If ur system couldn't cope with it today, might I suggest pong? /wink

[Ironcleaver]

<p>This is one of the big things missing from the game and is something the newer mmo generation never experienced. :-/</p>

[nerrollus]

<p><cite>Ironcleaver wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This is one of the big things missing from the game and is something the newer mmo generation never experienced. :-/</p></blockquote><p>Some of them yes ...  WoW intentionally kept the original cities a place of interested so players continued to congregate there for years.  </p><p>That's the only one I can think of though ...  I'm sleepy.</p>

[Iskandar]

<p><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>when there was many people in QH befor and after raids it was more then just afk doing nothing. <p>...</p><p> I go into guild halls....know what i see....afk peoples.</p></blockquote><p>Do you think all those "afk peoples" you see would be "less AFK" if they were in the Harbor instead?</p><p>The <strong>ONLY</strong> thing I miss about the old Harbor was the "discount" boat trip -- the one where you would zone onto a ship that would get boarded midway across the ocean, and you'd have to fight them off before continuing to your destination <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />  I <strong><em>loved</em></strong> that... but sadly, they removed it years ago <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" /></p>