What we've been working on: Velious Class Adjustments [Archive]

Xelgad

12-03-2010, 10:23 PM

Seasons Greetings! We've been very busy the last few months, and I haven't been able to post here as much as I like, but I wanted give you guys a general overview on some of the class adjustments we've been working on for Velious. We have several other projects in progress right now, but this is a list of some adjustments we have ready to go so far. Guardians:Sentry Watch should no longer have a chance to get you killed. Summoners:You will soon have a reason to cast your scout pets. Necromancer:Accelerated Decay will no longer decay the Necromancer, just his (or her) enemies. Illusionists:We've made some significant DPS tweaks, including completely replacing Construct of Reason with a new and improved damage spell. Your DPS should end up pretty well balanced with your Coercer friends.Brigands:Theives Guild got a complete revamp (no, not a hate transfer), and Beg for Mercy should be improved as well. Rangers:Your Hawk Attack should work much better, and Coverage should be less affected by lag. Troubador:Rejuvenating Celebration and Countersong will be seeing some boosts. Summoners, Enchanters and other pet users:At long last, shared stats will be a reality! Pet effects will be a thing of the past. I may be able to answer some questions for you guys, but I can't get into too many details, since those details may change before this stuff hits the live servers anyway. I'll try to update this thread as we're able to finish up other projects in the near future.

Davngr1

12-03-2010, 10:33 PM

good changes thank you. any chance of limited pets becoming immune to aoe again or changed? edit. also the dot cap, wil that be looked at? thanks again.

Dorsan

12-03-2010, 10:43 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> any chance of limited pets becoming immune to aoe again or changed? edit. also the dot cap, wil that be looked at? </blockquote>This.And shared stats for swarm pets too!

Xalmat

12-03-2010, 10:44 PM

What Davngr said. Good changes, though!

Rhadamanth

12-03-2010, 10:54 PM

This is awesome! Thank you! I also wonder about what Davngr1 said.

Sigmaz01

12-03-2010, 10:55 PM

YES!!!!!!!! thanks alot giggles <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Morghus

12-03-2010, 11:01 PM

What about DoT stripping being made seperate from debuff stripping?And casting skills as well. Whether you have 500 or 700 it doesn't seem to matter if the mob has 0 or few debuffs.And focus. Most AEs and enemy effects have direct interrupts that completely nullify even having the skill. Not to mention being hit multiple times for 1 damage will interrupt you more often than being hit fewer times for very large damage.Any chance those could be looked at?

Boise

12-03-2010, 11:02 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers:Your Hawk Attack should work much better, and Coverage should be less affected by lag. I may be able to answer some questions for you guys, but I can't get into too many details, since those details may change before this stuff hits the live servers anyway. I'll try to update this thread as we're able to finish up other projects in the near future.</blockquote>Took about 2 expanisons to fix Coverage. Thxs though.

Jezes

12-03-2010, 11:20 PM

Nice to see the Illusionist changes coming.In addition to these changes, I highly suggest taking a look at Inquisition and fixing/changing it to be more useful. As it is now, I rarely cast that spell, unless there is absolutely nothing else to cast.

Carpediem

12-03-2010, 11:41 PM

For Coverage, can you leave the positional requirement up, maybe give the next attack a cast speed bonus, and just ditch the stealth portion of it, so it works for any attack? Focus Aim needs something fresh too, Strikethrough and Flurry chance maybe?I know it's been brought up a ton already but lowering recasts on many of the ranger CA's really would help too.Also, where are you guys at on the plans to make rangers more ranged? Kinda sucks that we're stuck using the miragul charm forever.

ChaosUndivided

12-03-2010, 11:48 PM

Not too be that guy. But almost all of the changes you mentioned above besides the Consolidated pet stats seem minor at best. None of these changes are anything groundbreaking nor do they look extensive enough for you to have waited all the way until Velious lol.I don't know what to say, I've been playing this game since Launch and every expansion always has a slew of class changes. Nothing listed above gets me too excited.

Neiloch

12-03-2010, 11:56 PM

<cite>Carpediem@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>For Coverage, can you leave the positional requirement up, maybe give the next attack a cast speed bonus, and just ditch the stealth portion of it, so it works for any attack? Focus Aim needs something fresh too, Strikethrough and Flurry chance maybe?I know it's been brought up a ton already but lowering recasts on many of the ranger CA's really would help too.Also, where are you guys at on the plans to make rangers more ranged? Kinda sucks that we're stuck using the miragul charm forever.</blockquote>+1 to this. Especially interested in if any more work is going to be done to make rangers significantly 'more ranged'

Aurel

12-03-2010, 11:57 PM

Yay!! Now I can stop fretting on whether or not pet buff gear is what I should be after or not!I am much curious about the Accelerated Decay thing, as well!

Laiina

12-03-2010, 11:58 PM

What will happen to all the pet effect gear?

hellfire

12-04-2010, 12:10 AM

Yay i can think about what my next sig will be.Hopefully will see some type of pet foci/bonuses to differentiate gear type.And yeah swarm pets stats should be based off our stats also not a base of 1 pct chance to crit and such.

DrkVsr

12-04-2010, 12:45 AM

Just don't strip all spells again like you did around Valentine's Day (a couple of mah characters still had the NoTD Illusion from '0<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Quicksilver74

12-04-2010, 01:16 AM

Wow shared stats!

Writer Cal

12-04-2010, 02:07 AM

Any elaboration on Hawk Attack? "Work much better" could mean a whole lot of things.

Mentin

12-04-2010, 07:19 AM

What about general class dps balancing? Like some healers and tanks having crazy dps levels(Inquisitors, mystics, berserkers and shadowknights anyone?)Yes I am calling for nerfs here. So flame me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Morghus

12-04-2010, 07:25 AM

<cite>Mentin wrote:</cite><blockquote>What about general class dps balancing? Like some healers and tanks having crazy dps levels(Inquisitors, mystics, berserkers and shadowknights anyone?)Yes I am calling for nerfs here. So flame me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>First of all, not going to touch on the tanks. Second, I do not play a healer, but even I know that healers can only do this 'crazy dps' on trivial content. On actually challenging stuff they don't usually have time to dps. And if actual DPS classes are being beat by healers, I am going to have to say what others will say, and that is your acutal DPS classes are bad at the game.

Avirodar

12-04-2010, 11:34 AM

<cite>Morghus wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mentin wrote:</cite><blockquote>What about general class dps balancing? Like some healers and tanks having crazy dps levels(Inquisitors, mystics, berserkers and shadowknights anyone?)Yes I am calling for nerfs here. So flame me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>First of all, not going to touch on the tanks. Second, I do not play a healer, but even I know that healers can only do this 'crazy dps' on trivial content. On actually challenging stuff they don't usually have time to dps. And if actual DPS classes are being beat by healers, I am going to have to say what others will say, and that is your acutal DPS classes are bad at the game.</blockquote>ZOMG, a DPS'er with at least half a clue! +1 for Morghus!Mentin, if you consider the DPS that any healer can do to be "crazy", your guild needs better DPSers. The only bone-crunching capacity from healers is furies, but they pay a price for it.

Irgun

12-04-2010, 12:04 PM

Gimme my paladin critheals back...

sivius

12-04-2010, 12:30 PM

Does this mean conj's will be even more op now?

hellfire

12-04-2010, 12:48 PM

<cite>sivius wrote:</cite><blockquote>Does this mean conj's will be even more op now?</blockquote>Nope we will be nerfed...anything else?

Boldac

12-04-2010, 01:45 PM

Since you are working on the classes.Any chance we can get the healers back to the way they were designed?You know, shaman get wards, clerics get reactives and druids get HoT's. It's sad when clerics and druids get wards and shaman get...umm...they get....someone help me out here.

thajo

12-04-2010, 04:24 PM

<cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow shared stats!</blockquote>I think its funny though that when Summoners first wanted this...their pets had jack for stats. Eternity passes to the point where summoners have gear to give their pets (minus crit chance it seems) arguably better stats than the summoner them self...and now shared stats go into effect which at this point will cause the pet to have less stats than they did decked in pet gear. I just can't get over the irony.<div><cite>Boldac wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since you are working on the classes.Any chance we can get the healers back to the way they were designed?You know, shaman get wards, clerics get reactives and druids get HoT's. It's sad when clerics and druids get wards and shaman get...umm...they get....someone help me out here.</blockquote>Even more wards on top of the wards they already have? There is gear that procs HoTs, procs reactives and procs wards and guess what - the ones that proc wards generally smoke the HoT and reactive type procs, so you already have something extremly powerful innate to your class (minus templars I guess) and can on top of your classes wards, get stacked in warding procs. It's not like they cancel each other out. And its not like any druid/cleric is going to ward someone like a shaman can with gear procs. I dunno shamans extremly well but it sure doesn't seem like they need help. Defilers are nuts.Healer dps isn't really a prob either...its 100% damage procs. Any class can parse amazing with the abundance of 100% damage procs and especially VC. There is nothing impressive about my inq melee'ing a mob and getting 80k dps from VC. Goes for all the fast hitting classes who can take advantage of such. I'll lose/be highly rivaled on fast burn parses on my wizard against healers/scouts/fighters/summoners/chanters because I manage 12 - 18k dps from VC, meanwhile i'm 30k DPS behind a class that yanked 50 - 100k from VC and the drop-off of damage source going to their spells beyond VC is so abysmal that I can get out-dps'd by 5+ classes because they had VC. Look at Conj parses they usually go... VC, eb, some classes dmg proc, some classes dmg proc, some classes dmg proc, some classes dmg proc, some classes dmg proc, conj spell, conj spell, some classes damage proc. You can find this on tons of classes that you find topping the parses these days over wizards/warlocks on occasions. Then check the same parse by the Sorc who is hanging and more often than not the top 5 damage spells will almost always belong to our class.DPS from classes is fine, its the procs that are screwing up the big picture.</div>

thajo

12-04-2010, 04:29 PM

edit/merged

acctlc

12-04-2010, 04:51 PM

Lulz...so that Treskar's Cloak of Misery I gambled on and spent over 1k pp on just a week ago is becoming significantly less cool in 2 months eh. I knew there was a chance of it and oh well I'm not complaining, you could have confirmed it a week ago tho /doh. Glad to hear the changes, just please for the love of god make sure they are tested and working. Pay special attention to procs. Kings legacy and other potency procs, procs that temporarily up crit bonus. All need to effect the pets stats in real time.

Hina

12-04-2010, 07:12 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote> any chance of limited pets becoming immune to aoe again or changed? edit. also the dot cap, wil that be looked at? thanks again.</blockquote>+1 to this. DoTs, the DoT cap and how spell double attack effects DoTs are huge issues that need to be looked at going into velious. All these things need to be reworked in order to assure that DoT based classes continue to be able to progress in damage at the same rate as their DD class counterparts.Dumbfire spells being reworked, or having them immune to aoe + have shared stats would be icing on the cake.

Avianna

12-04-2010, 07:23 PM

The humble Paladin says: "All I want for frostfell are my heals returned."Thank You Santa,Roeenaoh and P.S. the BG's fighter gear still has INT on it, INT does not have any benifit for fighters so please fix this.

Drumstix

12-04-2010, 10:06 PM

Not trying to be strictly negative, but why do all these decent class changes only come during expansion releases? =/

iceriven2

12-04-2010, 11:46 PM

<cite>Drumstixx@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not trying to be strictly negative, but why do all these decent class changes only come during expansion releases? =/</blockquote>Probably so they can test it during beta.

QuiDex

12-05-2010, 12:33 AM

I too am happy to hear they are going to shift the life drain off the necro onto the enemy <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /> It will also be nice to not get flammed for using my scout pet now lol.

DrkVsr

12-05-2010, 01:32 AM

Stupid gnecro here, but is LifeDrain the one that heals the pet or an ally? Or is that the main one that damages the enemy and heals the necro? (get confused as ah have 3 Drain spells: 1 that heals me while dmg the enemy, 1 that heals mah pet using mah health & 1 that heals an ally using either the health from me or mah pet)

LardLord

12-05-2010, 02:20 AM

<cite>Drumstixx@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not trying to be strictly negative, but why do all these decent class changes only come during expansion releases? =/</blockquote>There were actually a ton of mechanics/class changes this expansion, from uncapping to potency, to the Guardian revamp, to the auto-attack changes...Rogue WIS line revamp, ect...prolly others I'm forgetting.

Seiffil

12-05-2010, 02:38 AM

<cite>DrkVsr wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stupid gnecro here, but is LifeDrain the one that heals the pet or an ally? Or is that the main one that damages the enemy and heals the necro? (get confused as ah have 3 Drain spells: 1 that heals me while dmg the enemy, 1 that heals mah pet using mah health & 1 that heals an ally using either the health from me or mah pet)</blockquote> He's talking about accelerated decay which is one of the SF AA's, which has a constant Health over time cost for the necro as long as it is active.

DrkVsr

12-05-2010, 02:50 AM

Thank you Seiffil

Maliclipse

12-05-2010, 04:05 AM

First Off being a Necro and Conj THANKS about time.However about pet gear will it be the same gear with no pet buffs or am i going to have to regear everything. Or are you going to convert all pet gear to what the mages have right now. I would hate to regear everything but if i have to i guess i will.Also please just make swarm pets AoE immune. Im not a programmer but that seems like an easy fix.Also while we are at it let the pet AA's affect every pet please. There is no reason that they should not. Giving the tank pet 20% double attack etc will not break the game.Forgot to ask when can we see this on Test since they are allready done. ATleast that will give us summoners enough time to test out this rough transition period Also forgot to add that the changes to scout will be easy to keep alive for a necro but please change bubble so that conjies can keep their scout pet alive. Would only make since to make theirs cost mana over time since the necros cost health over time. Thanks made me a happy summoner.Also one last question. Will All stats transfer over, Including health? or just dps stats?

dalponis

12-05-2010, 05:45 AM

How about instead of giving brigands a hate transfer, you remove the hate tranfers that swashbucklers/assassins get? Make people actually have to consider agro issues, and possibly take the INT line in Rogue AA? Similarly to assassins.

Vitriol

12-05-2010, 08:43 AM

<cite>dalponis wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about instead of giving brigands a hate transfer</blockquote>they didn't say they were?

stevenbanks

12-05-2010, 10:28 AM

<cite>dalponis wrote:</cite><blockquote>How about instead of giving brigands a hate transfer, you remove the hate tranfers that swashbucklers/assassins get? Make people actually have to consider agro issues, and possibly take the INT line in Rogue AA? Similarly to assassins. </blockquote>They are not giving Brigands hate transfer, as it is stated in the first post. We are getting changes to our Thieves Guild and Beg for Mercy.

Gimmiethat

12-05-2010, 01:15 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Troubador:Rejuvenating Celebration and Countersong will be seeing some boosts. </blockquote>Really?!? These would need a total re-do... not just 'some boosts'.

Korrupt

12-05-2010, 04:25 PM

+1 to the question about dumbfires, will they be seeing shared stats too? Also will they be getting changed to DoT's or made damage immune so they are worth casting?Also a +1 to the DoT questions. DoT's get shafted on SDA, being cured, and not making use of high reuse due to overwriting, with no benefits to counteract these disadvantages. Are any(or all) of these going to be addressed?

Germs666

12-05-2010, 04:26 PM

Finally! Some hope for the necro class!I would still like see these things implemented:> Swarm pets scrapped or changed to Dots or debuffs> Scout pets either getting scrapped entirely and replaced with Cast speed/recovery/reuse/double attack AA lines in placeor changed to share mage stats and stay ranged dps. (I don't know a single mage who will start to want AGI,Haste,Multiattack gear.)> Dot mechanics tweaked for multi-attack and AD stacking issues fixed.> Elemental Blast to be nerfed like Lifeburn was or Lifeburn boosted to what Elemental Blast is.> An NPC to swap pet gear armor for the sorcerer gear set. (Dav's idea)

Germs666

12-05-2010, 04:35 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>sivius wrote:</cite><blockquote>Does this mean conj's will be even more op now?</blockquote>Nope we will be nerfed...anything else?</blockquote>Nerfed but still way better than necros unless they nerf EB like it needs to be. It needs to be on a 5-10 min timer as is.

Uinael_Guk

12-05-2010, 05:38 PM

<cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow shared stats!</blockquote>Meh, good in theory but it's more laziness than anything else. I'm sure the idea of making extra gear for a class they hate like the necro helped make this decision. I'm surprised to see them mention Brigands as well, maybe they finally realized dispatch wasn't a good enough reason to neglect that class for many expansions now.It should be interesting to see what one of the worst AA choices ever created (theives guild) has been changed to.

Davngr1

12-05-2010, 06:14 PM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow shared stats!</blockquote>Meh, good in theory but it's more laziness than anything else. I'm sure the idea of making extra gear for a class they hate like the necro helped make this decision. I'm surprised to see them mention Brigands as well, maybe they finally realized dispatch wasn't a good enough reason to neglect that class for many expansions now.It should be interesting to see what one of the worst AA choices ever created (theives guild) has been changed to.</blockquote> dispatch fell in effectiveness because of the consolidation of resist. before in the raid you had one class debuffing poison for 2k, another debuffing disease for 2k and a 1k nox debuff some where in there. that meant it was 3k debuff for poison and 3k debuff for disease = 3k nox debuff now those same classes are doing 2k nox + 2k nox + 1k nox = 5k nox debuff

StaticLex

12-05-2010, 06:56 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>I may be able to answer some questions for you guys, but I can't get into too many details, since those details may change before this stuff hits the live servers anyway. I'll try to update this thread as we're able to finish up other projects in the near future.</blockquote>Is any work being done to other spells like the ranger hawk? The druid tree for example.

Kegu

12-05-2010, 08:04 PM

Istead of an insta-killed pet summon any thought into turning Hawk Attack into some type of buff, maybe give rangers some raid utility, like with the assassin's hate share?I'm sure you could come up with something creative <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />A trick arrow revamp might be worth looking into also ...

Xalmat

12-05-2010, 10:07 PM

Xelgad, can you elaborate for us how exactly the pet shared stats will work? That way us Summoners have time to prepare over the next couple months for Velious.

dalponis

12-05-2010, 10:27 PM

<cite>Vitriol@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>they didn't say they were?</blockquote> <cite>stevenbanks wrote:</cite><blockquote>They are not giving Brigands hate transfer, as it is stated in the first post. We are getting changes to our Thieves Guild and Beg for Mercy.</blockquote>Sorry, I didn't make this clearer. What I was trying to say is, to stop the brigands that QQ about hate transfer from QQin', how about removing the scout hate tranfers from the game?

Narisa

12-06-2010, 07:53 AM

I know it doesn't directly affect a buncha classes, but I think it would definately be of benefit to a few.Anyway, I'd really like to see some sort of ward/heal window added since most wards were removed from the maintained window and moved to the spell effects window in a recent update. I for one can't stand not being able to see who I have warded/whatnot & how much they are warded/whatnotted for. It would be super handy! ♥ Thanks!

melaine_dvarvensplitter

12-06-2010, 10:47 AM

Good to see the changes and as far as those wanting EB put on a 5-10 min timer... they do that and I will drop it, I like it at the 2min 46sec reuse *I have some reuse gear and don't know the unaffected timer*. It is nice to have a nice dps boost as an Oh crap button. I have a necro as well and LB is [Removed for Content] handy as well I see both as a nice dps oh crap button for a burst of damage right at the end when a mob dies.For the record I do not get to raid so my stats and gear is not as "uber" as many of yours. I like to see things relative based on all play styles. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Durg Hammerhand

12-06-2010, 11:05 AM

I Would like to see dumbfire pets, be affected by casters stats and only take direct damage.Put this into effect and it might make them worth casting.

Aurorrae

12-06-2010, 12:37 PM

<cite>Irgin@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Gimme my paladin critheals back...</blockquote>QFE - the lack of crit is bad enough for a class that is *supposed* to heal - but the way the aa trees are set up, you need to put aas into heal stuff that's no longer useful to get to end lines. Whatever you were tryng to do with tanks, you blew it when it applied to pallies

Badmotorfinger

12-06-2010, 12:44 PM

yes, don't forget about Dumbfire pets.Also, Conjurors were told the Pet offensive stance was getting fixed so that it acutually did somthing... what happend to that??

Soul_Dreamer

12-06-2010, 01:21 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Guardians:Sentry Watch should no longer have a chance to get you killed.</blockquote>Hi,Can you comment on if you're planning on changing "Sentinel" as well, both were raised during the Guardian revamp. Any raid encounter with a Trauma AOE this ability cannot be used because Sentinel has a chance of intercepting 80% of the damage to the Guardian. 30k AOE + 24k AOE (from your MT Templar because you intercepted it) is a dead Gaurdian <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />A Persistent damage reduction either across group or on one member would be nice since Guardians offer nothing offensively and it then means our healer(s) have more of a chance of staying alive than if another tank was tanking which is kinda the whole point of a Gaurdian.It would be nice if these abilities could be used all the time, I don't see the other tanks group offensive buffs having a chance to kill them so I don't see why our defensive ones should have a chance to kill us.Cheers,

Artalis the Elder

12-06-2010, 02:45 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Troubador:Rejuvenating Celebration and Countersong will be seeing some boosts. </blockquote>Really?!? These would need a total re-do... not just 'some boosts'.</blockquote>I'm holding out some hope. If they substantially reduced the casting time and recast of Countersong or made it an effect that lasted 10 seconds on the mob instead of it being dispelled on the NEXT spell cast it would be pretty decent. I already use it in certain circumstances once in a blue moon.Rejuvenating Celebration could be fixed by adding additional effects or by vastly increasing the in-combat health regen. I'm excited and optimistic to see what Xelgad has come up with here.Of course Raxxyl's still needs something. The lackof AOE's is glaring and the class has a couple other things that need looking at, but any improvement is just that, an improvement.WTG Xelgad! /salute.

Shalladiah

12-06-2010, 09:35 PM

<cite>Narisa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it doesn't directly affect a buncha classes, but I think it would definately be of benefit to a few.Anyway, I'd really like to see some sort of ward/heal window added since most wards were removed from the maintained window and moved to the spell effects window in a recent update. I for one can't stand not being able to see who I have warded/whatnot & how much they are warded/whatnotted for. It would be super handy! ♥ Thanks!</blockquote>Yeah this would be very helpful, I was so used to watching my proc wards fire in the maintained window, at a glace i was able to judge who needed additional direct wards depending on who the procs hit. I would definitly be intersted in seeing an additional window added to hold these temp buffs.

Notsovilepriest

12-06-2010, 09:39 PM

<cite>Shalladiah wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Narisa@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it doesn't directly affect a buncha classes, but I think it would definately be of benefit to a few.Anyway, I'd really like to see some sort of ward/heal window added since most wards were removed from the maintained window and moved to the spell effects window in a recent update. I for one can't stand not being able to see who I have warded/whatnot & how much they are warded/whatnotted for. It would be super handy! ♥ Thanks!</blockquote>Yeah this would be very helpful, I was so used to watching my proc wards fire in the maintained window, at a glace i was able to judge who needed additional direct wards depending on who the procs hit. I would definitly be intersted in seeing an additional window added to hold these temp buffs.</blockquote>As long as I could turn it off, Was annoying as heck to not see who I had warded and how much of my group ward was left because of so many procs. Plus, seeing who the procs are on tends to be useless anyways especially in groups with more than 1 healer.

Kunaak

12-07-2010, 02:17 AM

Rejuvenating Celebration: in combat health regen will never be useful as a buff.wouldnt matter if it was 1000, the tick is just too long to make it useful.it needs to be completly redone - completly different then "in-combat regen". even in combat power regen has become useless. fights are either too long to make it useful, or things power drain so much that the tick is so little - it does almost nothing. enchanters are the only form of actual power regen these days, and thats cause they have about 3-5 different things they can cast to instantly give power.for rejuvenating celebration to be useful, it would have to be something like what enchanters get in the stamina line "increases heals by 8%".I most certainly dont want it to be a castable heal though - energizing ballad is already a waste of AA. (a power buff I can cast once per fight.... that does a fraction of what a single coercer can do for a whole group every 30 seconds.... yeah, let me rush out and get that....)as for how to get countersong back onto peoples hotbars?not a clue... its not broken, its just, a hard to tell if it helped, hard to time for the exact AE you wanna avoid, and the immunity is oh so fun to deal with.what happens with countersong will be interesting. hopefully, its not the new bladedance.

Baztien

12-07-2010, 04:34 AM

How about fixing the Wizard spell, Storming Tempest.The reset timer is gimmicked in your programming, that's all there is to say. The previous 'fix' did not work but to lessen the problem, but it's STILL A PROBLEM

Eugam

12-07-2010, 09:21 AM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote> Summoners, Enchanters and other pet users:At long last, shared stats will be a reality! Pet effects will be a thing of the past.</blockquote>Shamans too ? Does that mean they get a minor AA revamp on the pet buffs ?

Costa

12-07-2010, 10:10 AM

As has been metioned a few times in here now, what are you planning on doing with Pally heals?It's nice to see some tweaks and changes to other classes but the one class defining ability that took a major hit a few months back still feels like it falls on deaf ears when mentioned so any news at this point would be good news <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Silzin

12-07-2010, 11:42 AM

can you comment on if you are looking into changing fighter agro generation. as it is know all fighters generate fare more agro in there offensive stance and fare less in defensive. I think this is opposite of the way it should be and could help fix the need to minimize the number of fighters in raid. I dont think it would be good to have a viable strat be to stack the raid with Sk's for AoE fighters but it shouldnt be so penalizing for having more then 2 maybe 3 fighters in a raid set up.

Gandahra

12-07-2010, 02:20 PM

And what about TC on illu ? !!

Kanaellars

12-07-2010, 03:52 PM

What is the point of anyone playing a wizard any more?Coercers have been doing wizard DPS for a while now, and Necros and Conjis are doing more dps.....Now Illys will be passing wizards as well.There is absolutely no point anymore to having wizards in the game.Why is this being done?The last 3 expansions have seen buffs to all other mage casters, but nothing at all to benefit the wizards.

Artalis the Elder

12-07-2010, 05:04 PM

<cite>Kunaak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rejuvenating Celebration: in combat health regen will never be useful as a buff.wouldnt matter if it was 1000, the tick is just too long to make it useful.it needs to be completly redone - completly different then "in-combat regen". even in combat power regen has become useless. fights are either too long to make it useful, or things power drain so much that the tick is so little - it does almost nothing. enchanters are the only form of actual power regen these days, and thats cause they have about 3-5 different things they can cast to instantly give power.for rejuvenating celebration to be useful, it would have to be something like what enchanters get in the stamina line "increases heals by 8%".OR a 5% reactive heal on damage recieved, or a HP buff or making it a always on HoT that heals for some small amount like 100per tick every 2 seconds or something. Tons of things they could do with it.I most certainly dont want it to be a castable heal though - energizing ballad is already a waste of AA. (a power buff I can cast once per fight.... that does a fraction of what a single coercer can do for a whole group every 30 seconds.... yeah, let me rush out and get that....)as for how to get countersong back onto peoples hotbars?not a clue... its not broken, its just, a hard to tell if it helped, hard to time for the exact AE you wanna avoid, and the immunity is oh so fun to deal with.What happens with countersong will be interesting. hopefully, its not the new bladedance.Instant cast 3min recast would do it. As would Instant Cast, 10 second duration and 5min recast. I'll be honest here. The fact that Xelgad is even looking at these abilities is a balm for my soul.</blockquote>

Notsovilepriest

12-07-2010, 05:09 PM

<cite>Kanaellars wrote:</cite><blockquote>What is the point of anyone playing a wizard any more?Coercers have been doing wizard DPS for a while now, and Necros and Conjis are doing more dps.....Your wiz sucksNow Illys will be passing wizards as well.You don't know thisThere is absolutely no point anymore to having wizards in the game.Except being the highest or 2nd highest on a parse 95% of the timeWhy is this being done?The last 3 expansions have seen buffs to all other mage casters, but nothing at all to benefit the wizards.</blockquote>

Xelgad

12-07-2010, 05:24 PM

Sorry guys, it turns out that the rest of the information is on lockdown for the time being, so you'll have to wait for Velious to see the rest of the cool stuff we have in store for you.For an early look and an opportunity to give lots of feedback on the changes, don't forget to apply for Beta once the signups are posted.

Dreadpatch

12-07-2010, 05:50 PM

<cite>Kanaellars wrote:</cite><blockquote>What is the point of anyone playing a wizard any more?Coercers have been doing wizard DPS for a while now, and Necros and Conjis are doing more dps.....Now Illys will be passing wizards as well.There is absolutely no point anymore to having wizards in the game.Why is this being done?The last 3 expansions have seen buffs to all other mage casters, but nothing at all to benefit the wizards.</blockquote>Wizzies should be able to beat coercers on a parse unless they need to work on their dps.

Dreadpatch

12-07-2010, 05:52 PM

I hate playing tank classes, but based on what I've seen, I think Pallies should get their heal crit back.

Artalis the Elder

12-07-2010, 06:00 PM

Maybe a compromise where only the heals they can cast on others can crit? So the Myth buff, the DI and Sacrament wouldn't crit but the single target heals, ward and group heal could?Just a thought.

Yimway

12-07-2010, 06:52 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>For an early look and an opportunity to give lots of feedback on the changes, don't forget to apply for Beta once the signups are posted.</blockquote>Yeap, so they can ignore the issues you identify as usual.

Xalmat

12-07-2010, 07:37 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry guys, it turns out that the rest of the information is on lockdown for the time being, so you'll have to wait for Velious to see the rest of the cool stuff we have in store for you.For an early look and an opportunity to give lots of feedback on the changes, don't forget to apply for Beta once the signups are posted.</blockquote>Such a tease. And way to leave us Summoners hanging <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Shareana

12-07-2010, 08:14 PM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5464953" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5464953</a> The language filter is there for a reason. Bypassing it is against the forum guidelines.

snowli

12-07-2010, 11:08 PM

Whilst everyone has different axes to grind about what needs fixing, the most important thing for all players I think, is hearing a proper commitment to fixing the major class issues that come with each expansion within the relevant expansion. The 'leave it until next expansion' practice has become a slippery slope of many issues getting stretched out over multiple expansions before seeing any attention, if ever.The backlog needs to be cleared of all the major issues that there hasn't been time for over several expansions to start with, and then soe really need to keep ontop of class balances issues that arise within each expansion into the future.In an ideal but unlikely world you could find the extra funding for this by firing all the spacewasters involved in the decision to sack 30% of soe's staff a while back, when soe is one of the few sony divisions making money, and use those saved wages to hire some useful people who make things and solve problems not create them.

theoldnite

12-08-2010, 05:11 AM

Pally heals nerf was pretty much from people complaining for pvp from what i can recall. Just change it so it crits in pve and doesnt crit in pvp. fixed.. As far as troub buffs go, Ruj. Celebration seriously needs a revamping, im glad they are looking at it, i liked the ideas Kiki had, i never use this buff nor did I ever plan on using it. Im excited that it could be extra heals and be a 'must have' buff for pvp. As for countersong, instant cast to catch AoEs you wanna dodge is a good idea, recast of 3mins still seems to long though. I like the idea of 10 seconds of 90% less effective spells however, also needs to get rid of the dispell when CAs are used instead of spells. The ONLY time i ever use it on a normal basis is in pvp, when im buffing while the person is mezzed, i break the mezz with countersong if its an assassin (because the next thing they ALWAYS hit is shadowstep (which is a spell)) and when its a sorceror, because the first spell is usually gonna be something big. getting hit for 51 points of damage instead of 2.5k from shadowstep is hella nice

Narisa

12-08-2010, 08:56 AM

<cite>anaellars wrote:</cite><blockquote>What is the point of anyone playing a wizard any more?Coercers have been doing wizard DPS for a while now, and Necros and Conjis are doing more dps.....Now Illys will be passing wizards as well.There is absolutely no point anymore to having wizards in the game.Why is this being done?The last 3 expansions have seen buffs to all other mage casters, but nothing at all to benefit the wizards.</blockquote>Really? I have never seen another class that has been given so much. Everytime a wizard cries they are given a new toy to play with.

Flobdeth

12-08-2010, 09:46 AM

Take another look at brig dps while you updating TG and tweak it upwards on single targets. Idc about ae's, that's a swashies place to ae

threat111

12-08-2010, 10:10 AM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>For an early look and an opportunity to give lots of feedback on the changes, don't forget to apply for Beta once the signups are posted.</blockquote>Yeap, so they can ignore the issues you identify as usual.</blockquote>Tbh the only time they listen is during beta. So if you are lucky enough to get in, do everything you can to feedback and get your ideas out to the devs. Its the one time of the year you acually have thier attention. Obviously you wont get everything changed but its the only time you will see change based on feedback.Being part of beta the last few xpacs has been a great experiance. Communication with the devs during that time is good. It should be like that year round.

Banditman

12-08-2010, 10:40 AM

<cite>Kanaellars wrote:</cite><blockquote>What is the point of anyone playing a wizard any more?Coercers have been doing wizard DPS for a while now, and Necros and Conjis are doing more dps.....Now Illys will be passing wizards as well.There is absolutely no point anymore to having wizards in the game.Why is this being done?The last 3 expansions have seen buffs to all other mage casters, but nothing at all to benefit the wizards.</blockquote>If you, as a Wizard, are unable to outparse an Enchanter, you should quit. I mean seriously. It's not even close to the same. There are, I'm sure, some scrub Wizards who are unable to outparse Enchanters.You know what? Not everyone is good at this game. If you aren't as good as someone else, expect to be outplayed, in this case, outparsed.

snowli

12-08-2010, 11:33 AM

<cite>Cesium@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>For an early look and an opportunity to give lots of feedback on the changes, don't forget to apply for Beta once the signups are posted.</blockquote>Yeap, so they can ignore the issues you identify as usual.</blockquote>Tbh the only time they listen is during beta. So if you are lucky enough to get in, do everything you can to feedback and get your ideas out to the devs. Its the one time of the year you acually have thier attention. Obviously you wont get everything changed but its the only time you will see change based on feedback.Being part of beta the last few xpacs has been a great experiance. Communication with the devs during that time is good. It should be like that year round.</blockquote>I can't say I've had a great experience, I'm not sure I can remember any of the issues I've posted about during beta getting any attention. Equally all the areas I've identified as potential problems have bourne out as predicted and turned into actual problems. Now I'm not saying the devs should listen to me particularly, why should they, but there have often been plenty of people coming to similar conclusions. So forum feedback hasn't always lead to much.On the otherhand quite a lot of feedback issues have turned up as changes after a few months, I'm not attributing any changes to myself of course, just that I might be feedbacking things that others are too. So /feedback feels like it works a bit better.Mostly I'd like to hear an additional dev has been hired either purely to do class & skill balancing, or to free someone additional up for them to spend 100% attention on getting the balance in better shape, and all the redundant and broken skills and aa's working again. Can't keep leaving it until 'after the next expansion'™

Aurorrae

12-08-2010, 12:18 PM

<cite>Ironhall@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>None of this means anything. How many times have they said they were going to change something and it never happens?They said MONTHS ago that the summoners pet offensive stance was going to be changed and nothing has happened. This is just round 2 of throwing us a bone.And please ST*U about pally crit heals. It hasn't hurt you at all! The fact that this is the biggest thing pallys have to complain about means your class is doing fine.</blockquote>I don't play a pally but I heal one regularly - and I can say without hesitation that it hurt them a great deal in raid settings. Their utility and surviviability took a fairly signficant hit.

Lantis

12-08-2010, 03:42 PM

I am a skeptical at heart. I'll believe it (the summoner changes) when they are actually Live, and shown to be properly balanced (I suspect such a major change will require some serious re-balancing of gear and abilities). I remember the scout pet "fix" was also announced to us at Fan Faire 2009, and it didn't happen. Same with various dumbfire fixes that were in the pipeline, but never happened. So I'll wait until the day right after launch before passing judgment on those plans. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Yimway

12-08-2010, 04:55 PM

<cite>snowline wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cesium@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>For an early look and an opportunity to give lots of feedback on the changes, don't forget to apply for Beta once the signups are posted.</blockquote>Yeap, so they can ignore the issues you identify as usual.</blockquote>Tbh the only time they listen is during beta.Being part of beta the last few xpacs has been a great experiance. Communication with the devs during that time is good. It should be like that year round.</blockquote>I can't say I've had a great experience, I'm not sure I can remember any of the issues I've posted about during beta getting any attention. Equally all the areas I've identified as potential problems have bourne out as predicted and turned into actual problems. Now I'm not saying the devs should listen to me particularly, why should they, but there have often been plenty of people coming to similar conclusions. So forum feedback hasn't always lead to much.</blockquote>My experience with SoE actually acknowledging and addressing issues identified in beta are more in line with snowline's response. His sentiments very much echo my own.Cesium sounds like he is playing a different beta than I am, or hasn't really tried addressing class balance issues in beta.In my experience the team is so far behind the deadlines for xpac by the time beta opens up, they simply don't have time to address anything other than huge issues that can be fixed with small tweaks. They are hardly able to take time to look at the bigger balance picture and take any action.

LardLord

12-08-2010, 05:02 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cesium sounds like he is playing a different beta than I am, or hasn't really tried addressing class balance issues in beta.</blockquote>It depends on the beta, in my experience. I felt like I was banging my head against the wall in TSO beta, but SF beta had several positive changes that were clearly based on feedback for the classes I was interested in. If I remember right, I got into SF beta earlier than I did for TSO, so that may have been part of it. It probably also is just a matter of whether SOE is looking to work on the classes you want them to work on, I'd assume.

Kunaak

12-08-2010, 05:27 PM

if you have a coercer, that can truely beat a wizard on the parse, and they are equally geared, and properly buffed, then 1 of two things should happen.that wizard should A: immediatly delete his toon, and reroll something else, and recoil from the shame.or B: the enchanter should start looking for a new guild, cause that guild is absolutly holding them back.

threat111

12-08-2010, 08:27 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>snowline wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cesium@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>For an early look and an opportunity to give lots of feedback on the changes, don't forget to apply for Beta once the signups are posted.</blockquote>Yeap, so they can ignore the issues you identify as usual.</blockquote>Tbh the only time they listen is during beta.Being part of beta the last few xpacs has been a great experiance. Communication with the devs during that time is good. It should be like that year round.</blockquote>I can't say I've had a great experience, I'm not sure I can remember any of the issues I've posted about during beta getting any attention. Equally all the areas I've identified as potential problems have bourne out as predicted and turned into actual problems. Now I'm not saying the devs should listen to me particularly, why should they, but there have often been plenty of people coming to similar conclusions. So forum feedback hasn't always lead to much.</blockquote>My experience with SoE actually acknowledging and addressing issues identified in beta are more in line with snowline's response. His sentiments very much echo my own.Cesium sounds like he is playing a different beta than I am, or hasn't really tried addressing class balance issues in beta.In my experience the team is so far behind the deadlines for xpac by the time beta opens up, they simply don't have time to address anything other than huge issues that can be fixed with small tweaks. They are hardly able to take time to look at the bigger balance picture and take any action.</blockquote>I just expressed my experiances. Im sure its easy to feel like you are ignored when you simply reply to every single thread in every forum with your opinions.Do I feel like the SOE staff should be more interactive and receptive to our thoughts and ideas? Yes.Do I think we all have our own motives for class balancing? YesI'm a raiding player on Nagafen. No one knows more about being ignored then we do. In yesturdays patch they just fixxed stonewill on our server. Its been a known issue since march. Its the single most powerful healing proc in the game and its been doing HALF of what it should have this entire expansion, while working completely fine on PVE servers. So here we are roughly 2 months away from the next expansion and they throw us a bone.

JenoJeno

12-09-2010, 10:00 PM

A few things need to be considered if this is going to be the option, which i completely disagree with, you are going with.Every piece of gear I have, has pet stats. This being said, when you release the expansion, what steps are going to be taken to give us gear that will be useful? We are going to take a huge nurf if all the gear we worked so hard this expansion to get is just going to turn to crap. As you know all the summoner gear is designed to boost our pet, and not as much a boost for us. Thus, if this goes through, all my SF gear will turn to nothing.On another note, this idea is kind of meaningless. A few points :Apparently a lot of the complaint is because the itemization team has failed to do their part as to adding "quest" rewarded pet stat items. Simple fix!Having multiple options for gear allow diversity in the game. Why have different types of gear for healers, scouts, and tanks, but then limit the gear to 1 set for mages? Each class has their unique gear and require getting those pieces.Everything the way it is, is fine! We could use a few items added to the quest rewards and loot tables to more specifically support those who are still using T8 items like myself. There are 3 items i use regularly and 4 sometimes. This has a huge issue with most people. If items were properly added, such that we would not need to use "T8" items. It would save a lot of complaints from being brought up.So, assuming it would be easier to completely revamp the game mechanics of a game over adding a few peices of gear, and making sure for future items are approperly added, there would be no need for such a change.It would be, in my opinion, easier and less bug issues if you simply just fixed the itemization rather than revamping an entire class. BUT if this is the only route you guys are looking at, I hope to god that you guys are considering a change of the current gear to balance us for the next expansion. I am a programmer, and do understand the complexities of revamping an entire class, so this would allow you guys to focus more on whats important. Gear, Items, Quests, Raids, etc over changing the mechanics of an entire class.I've spoke my mind, I hate this idea, and I hope you at least acknowledge this information and do what you feel is necessary.

Rhadamanth

12-09-2010, 10:27 PM

The shared stats doesn't really make any sense, unless I'm missing something. Wouldn't this only be useful when using a mage pet? If we were to summon our tank or scout pet, we would want other stats like multi-attack, haste, mitigation, etc. So if we are thinking about tanking something do we have to put on tank gear? How is this going to be any different than having pet gear? We'll still need to equip gear based on our pet.

JenoJeno

12-09-2010, 10:33 PM

I'm curious to know what they are planning to do with all the gear i've obtained this expansion to counter the changes for next expansion (if summoner gear will no longer effect our pets dps) we are going to be taking a huge dps nurf

Striikor

12-10-2010, 11:06 AM

<div><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><<Snip>>Rangers:Your Hawk Attack should work much better, and Coverage should be less affected by lag. <<Snip>></blockquote></div>Hawk Attack, hopefully this means it is AoE Immune and that it will actually hit mobs ... raid mobs. Or at least perform some useful utilityWas excited abou this and the improvement made to make it usable. Unfortunately Instant is not instant and the pre-qualifier prohibits use. Most particularly in a raid environment but even in instances. And with PFT up it is VERY difficult to see whether it engaged or not.One thing is that the recast counter does not trigger until completion of the next CA. So many times I will throw sniper or hidden shot and not be able to see that coverage did not work until I have cast the CA I wanted it to effect. So many many times I throw out sniper that was intended to be affected by coverage but was not. Can you give coverage a duration? So we can see that it is 'cocked'?

Piropiro

12-10-2010, 12:08 PM

summoners are horribly out of balance with pet stat gear period. it makes far more sense to do consolidated stats so soe can have much greater control over their overall balance. as they are now they are entirely dependant upon what pet stat gear pieces they can get and if you get all the right ones conj's are overpowered largely due to EB.furthermore there is no adequate compensation to other mages on gear to balance out the type of gain a summoner gets from a stat bonus like destructive forces. 13 potency and 13 crit bonus to a conj or necro pet from 1 piece of gear is horribly overpowered when you look at a sorc using their version of that piece that gives 2.8 cb and 2.8 potency. *edit* i.e. sublime dagger.gear can still be tailored to dif types of classes as dif people want more cast speed or more reuse more potency etc. what should be looked at along with stat consolidation is modifying the cast/reuse cap so it can go higher then 50%. as it is now its far to easy to half your casting speed and reuse with the right gear and setup. at one point i had 97% cast speed and 98.5% reuse in a raid and i could focus solely on potency and cb. and this was before any of the underfoot gear. also i think it'd be a nice twist on things to start having gear, jewelry especially that had bonus to abilities so they could become more class specific. im sure a lot of people would flame it saying it'd b ehorrible you'd never get the one you need but at least it'd be more itemization based and not have EVERY mage wearing the exact same thing.point is there are a lot of options they could do if they just broadened their scope but pet stats on gear has been proven with this xpac to be a bad way to do it. it leaves summoners way to out of balance and especially for the high end compared to low end when you look at how much dps the pet does vs the actual summoner depending on their gear. a bad conj shoudln't have their pet do 3x their dps simply bc of cb/potency pet bonus's on gear.

Yimway

12-10-2010, 12:11 PM

<cite>Rhadamanthys wrote:</cite><blockquote>The shared stats doesn't really make any sense, unless I'm missing something. Wouldn't this only be useful when using a mage pet? If we were to summon our tank or scout pet, we would want other stats like multi-attack, haste, mitigation, etc. So if we are thinking about tanking something do we have to put on tank gear? How is this going to be any different than having pet gear? We'll still need to equip gear based on our pet.</blockquote>Just depends on how the non-mage pets are setup. But yes, something would need to be done for multiattack and other melee centric modifiers on melee pets.

Brienae

12-10-2010, 01:24 PM

I think rejuvenating celebration needs changed entirely. I run it sometimes when I'm soloing or duoing with no healer but it really doesn't help much at all.Countersong- Never used it. Not sure when to. I think a duration of it would be better than on the next cast of an ability. Most fights (complicated named excluded) don't last 3 minutes.

Banditman

12-10-2010, 02:01 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rhadamanthys wrote:</cite><blockquote>The shared stats doesn't really make any sense, unless I'm missing something. Wouldn't this only be useful when using a mage pet? If we were to summon our tank or scout pet, we would want other stats like multi-attack, haste, mitigation, etc. So if we are thinking about tanking something do we have to put on tank gear? How is this going to be any different than having pet gear? We'll still need to equip gear based on our pet.</blockquote>Just depends on how the non-mage pets are setup. But yes, something would need to be done for multiattack and other melee centric modifiers on melee pets.</blockquote>OR!They could turn the "Scout" pet into a Mage, make him specialized in single target DPS, and then take the Fire pet and diversify his abilities into "Multi-Target" DPS and not worry about all the crazy "Mage to Melee" conversion idiocy that is sure to ensue.

Yimway

12-10-2010, 02:08 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>They could turn the "Scout" pet into a Mage, make him specialized in single target DPS, and then take the Fire pet and diversify his abilities into "Multi-Target" DPS and not worry about all the crazy "Mage to Melee" conversion idiocy that is sure to ensue.</blockquote>With the uncapping of MA, and how quasi wierd the conversions would have to be, yes I agree, just make it a single target mage <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

JenoJeno

12-10-2010, 08:50 PM

<cite>Pirotess@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>summoners are horribly out of balance with pet stat gear period. it makes far more sense to do consolidated stats so soe can have much greater control over their overall balance. as they are now they are entirely dependant upon what pet stat gear pieces they can get and if you get all the right ones conj's are overpowered largely due to EB.furthermore there is no adequate compensation to other mages on gear to balance out the type of gain a summoner gets from a stat bonus like destructive forces. 13 potency and 13 crit bonus to a conj or necro pet from 1 piece of gear is horribly overpowered when you look at a sorc using their version of that piece that gives 2.8 cb and 2.8 potency. *edit* i.e. sublime dagger.gear can still be tailored to dif types of classes as dif people want more cast speed or more reuse more potency etc. what should be looked at along with stat consolidation is modifying the cast/reuse cap so it can go higher then 50%. as it is now its far to easy to half your casting speed and reuse with the right gear and setup. at one point i had 97% cast speed and 98.5% reuse in a raid and i could focus solely on potency and cb. and this was before any of the underfoot gear. also i think it'd be a nice twist on things to start having gear, jewelry especially that had bonus to abilities so they could become more class specific. im sure a lot of people would flame it saying it'd b ehorrible you'd never get the one you need but at least it'd be more itemization based and not have EVERY mage wearing the exact same thing.point is there are a lot of options they could do if they just broadened their scope but pet stats on gear has been proven with this xpac to be a bad way to do it. it leaves summoners way to out of balance and especially for the high end compared to low end when you look at how much dps the pet does vs the actual summoner depending on their gear. a bad conj shoudln't have their pet do 3x their dps simply bc of cb/potency pet bonus's on gear.</blockquote>Summoners aren't "out of balanced!" We win short fights. That is it. Conjurors are simply short burst dps. When compared to a longer duration fight, we tend to balance out. A good wizard vs a good conjuror we are equal and usually the wizard will win. We are a pet class, our pet does our dps. The gear setup to gear towards our pet makes complete sense. The compensation of the gear i.e. the sublime dagger is balanced, it allows us to keep up with the teir 1 dps we are supposed to be doing.Our damage output vs our pet is what our class is designed for. Just look at parses of top raiding guilds. They ALL balance out except when a fight is under or around 1 minute. Otherwise it balances out.

Germs666

12-10-2010, 10:35 PM

<cite>Oonej@Nagafen wrote:</cite><cite></cite>"Everything the way it is, is fine!"That made me LOL. Of course the overpowered summoner class would say that.The item developer "Fireflyte" happened to play a Conjurer. Coincidence? Itemization in SF is terrible. Fixing Summoners with gear was a bad idea. Shared stats will help BALANCE the two summoner classes out. One summoner got an overpowered ability and the other got a broken one.I welcome the new change. I just hope the DoT caps and mechanics from Spell Double attack aren't what [Removed for Content] necromancers next xpac.It seems that the game mechanics are always working against our class, whether it be our lifetap mod caps, ability mod caps, low front end damage, self- life drains etc.

Piropiro

12-10-2010, 11:43 PM

<cite>Oonej@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Summoners aren't "out of balanced!" We win short fights. That is it. Conjurors are simply short burst dps. When compared to a longer duration fight, we tend to balance out. A good wizard vs a good conjuror we are equal and usually the wizard will win. We are a pet class, our pet does our dps. The gear setup to gear towards our pet makes complete sense. The compensation of the gear i.e. the sublime dagger is balanced, it allows us to keep up with the teir 1 dps we are supposed to be doing.Our damage output vs our pet is what our class is designed for. Just look at parses of top raiding guilds. They ALL balance out except when a fight is under or around 1 minute. Otherwise it balances out.</blockquote>/sigh, do you know what balance is? it isn't just how a high end conj does versus a high end wizard. its also how a low end conj does vs a low end wizard. it takes zero talent and ability for a low end conj to get enough pet geared items to make their pet far outclass what the player is capable of doing. also yes you are a pet class and pet does dps, but it shouldn't be doing the vast majority of your dps. there is no skill involved in your pet doing 60% or plus of your dps, thats just sad and wait for it, out of balance. and if you think that the sublime dagger is balanced weapon wise, especially compared to say the sublime rod, just wow is all i have to say.to your last part, as i said, its not just high end guilds that are the measure, you have to look at every aspect of it and in that regard summoners are not balanced. the dependance on pet based gear and the desparity between having it and not having it is far to great. having shared stats would allow a much greater control of that balance along with the direction they can take summoners as far as putting more emphasis in the player controling a greater part of their dps. i personaly think they need to revamp the damage the conj does and lessen the damage the pet does as they do this class revamp. conjs are so broken right now its even more easy button mode then wizards.

Notsovilepriest

12-11-2010, 12:04 AM

<cite>Pirotess@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Oonej@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Summoners aren't "out of balanced!" We win short fights. That is it. Conjurors are simply short burst dps. When compared to a longer duration fight, we tend to balance out. A good wizard vs a good conjuror we are equal and usually the wizard will win. We are a pet class, our pet does our dps. The gear setup to gear towards our pet makes complete sense. The compensation of the gear i.e. the sublime dagger is balanced, it allows us to keep up with the teir 1 dps we are supposed to be doing.Our damage output vs our pet is what our class is designed for. Just look at parses of top raiding guilds. They ALL balance out except when a fight is under or around 1 minute. Otherwise it balances out.</blockquote>/sigh, do you know what balance is? it isn't just how a high end conj does versus a high end wizard. its also how a low end conj does vs a low end wizard. it takes zero talent and ability for a low end conj to get enough pet geared items to make their pet far outclass what the player is capable of doing. also yes you are a pet class and pet does dps, but it shouldn't be doing the vast majority of your dps. there is no skill involved in your pet doing 60% or plus of your dps, thats just sad and wait for it, out of balance. and if you think that the sublime dagger is balanced weapon wise, especially compared to say the sublime rod, just wow is all i have to say.to your last part, as i said, its not just high end guilds that are the measure, you have to look at every aspect of it and in that regard summoners are not balanced. the dependance on pet based gear and the desparity between having it and not having it is far to great. having shared stats would allow a much greater control of that balance along with the direction they can take summoners as far as putting more emphasis in the player controling a greater part of their dps. i personaly think they need to revamp the damage the conj does and lessen the damage the pet does as they do this class revamp. conjs are so broken right now its even more easy button mode then wizards.</blockquote>This game has never and should never be balanced around crap players, it would destroy any last fibers of this game.

Gaftep

12-11-2010, 01:00 AM

I like most of what was posted, but do other necros really have a problem with Accelerated Decay? Losing health out of combat can annoy healers, but really with lich, and even one healing adornment, we can keep our hp up pretty well in group (at least I can).

Rhita

12-11-2010, 01:27 AM

Any chance of you fixing Sentinel IV (Guardian Ability) currently it is placed on an ally to have a 48% chance to intercept damage on a mage or healer type ally. But this also can get you killed and is not worth the risk. Would love to see this fixed so we can again use our full defensive buffs.

Rhadamanth

12-11-2010, 02:10 AM

<cite>Gaftep@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like most of what was posted, but do other necros really have a problem with Accelerated Decay? Losing health out of combat can annoy healers, but really with lich, and even one healing adornment, we can keep our hp up pretty well in group (at least I can).</blockquote>Yeah, personally, I don't really understand the complaints about the life drains on our spells. Out of combat, you can easily heal yourself with transfer life. However, it does help to have good AA and decent gear, otherwise lifetaps don't heal enough while in combat. But I can have all of them running and even after AOEs I can usually heal myself back to full, while other mages are down a bit of health. Even Lifeburn I can heal myself through. But the major complaint about AD is that it creates issues with the dot cap and spell double attack. Because of it, our two most fundamental spells (Pandemic and Soulrot) get no benefit from things like UT or SDA.

Dorsan

12-11-2010, 05:15 AM

In PvP AD does more damage to me than most people can DPS. And our heals are reduced there as well.

BetaTester

12-11-2010, 06:57 AM

<cite>elgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seasons Greetings! We've been very busy the last few months, and I haven't been able to post here as much as I like, but I wanted give you guys a general overview on some of the class adjustments we've been working on for Velious. We have several other projects in progress right now, but this is a list of some adjustments we have ready to go so far. Summoners:You will soon have a reason to cast your scout pets.LOL , I believe it when I see it Summoners, Enchanters and other pet users:At long last, shared stats will be a reality! Pet effects will be a thing of the past.our hard earned gear gets nurfed again ? we hunted this gear down FOR pet effects instead of character stats ...what happens to casting speed and reuse ? Do the pets share our effects too ? Gear from TSO still hasn't been respec'd for SKs , our pet effect gear isn't going to be updated to reimburse us for the loss of pet effects .and our pet offensive stance has been worse than useless since the last summoner fix</blockquote>thanks for letting me know not to waste anymore time , marks , arads , bg tokens , or plat on the specialized gear you people made for our class .I don't know about the rest of you , but with the gear I've aquired my pet does about 20% more dps than I do ...it'll do more than 20% less than I do if it shares my stats ... I don't have , and can't get , anywhere near the cast and reuse haste , or potency my pet has ...and thats IF the pet shares our cast and reuse haste , crit and bonus , potency ... and our Int / Wiz / Stamina ect. works the same for all our pets ?sharing stats != removing pet effects .how many times are you gonna keep hacking summoners ? at our expenseI don't know about the rest of you , but I liked being able to add gear to buff the HP , defense , parry , and resists of my pets

Davngr1

12-11-2010, 08:41 AM

<cite>Rhadamanthys wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaftep@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like most of what was posted, but do other necros really have a problem with Accelerated Decay? Losing health out of combat can annoy healers, but really with lich, and even one healing adornment, we can keep our hp up pretty well in group (at least I can).</blockquote>Yeah, personally, I don't really understand the complaints about the life drains on our spells. Out of combat, you can easily heal yourself with transfer life. However, it does help to have good AA and decent gear, otherwise lifetaps don't heal enough while in combat. But I can have all of them running and even after AOEs I can usually heal myself back to full, while other mages are down a bit of health. Even Lifeburn I can heal myself through. But the major complaint about AD is that it creates issues with the dot cap and spell double attack. Because of it, our two most fundamental spells (Pandemic and Soulrot) get no benefit from things like UT or SDA.</blockquote> i can't understand these post or anyone that post things of this nature. does any other class have a health penalty for average damage? because necro isin't a T1 class, you know that right? if it's not something you have a problem with then just post about things that you might want changed instead of trying to speak out against something that you don't care about yet others (90%) who play the class don't like or aren't happy with. about the pet effects on gear. it's a bad mechanic because it benefits one summoner more then the other and it creates itemization problems. ie. the warlock wants the 4 potency and 4 crit bonus but can't do a thing with the destructive forces and vise versa the other item that is only good for the summonr ends up being sold or transmuted after the one main and the 5 alt summoners have it. the whole "pet stats" thing was a fail from day one since all it did was further complicate the balancing of gear. i can understand people who play conj not liking this change but anyone who plays a necro should welcome this change with arms wide open since it will finally bring the pet up to par with the necro with out having to sacrifice the necro's personal damage.

Germs666

12-11-2010, 01:19 PM

<cite>Rhadamanthys wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaftep@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like most of what was posted, but do other necros really have a problem with Accelerated Decay? Losing health out of combat can annoy healers, but really with lich, and even one healing adornment, we can keep our hp up pretty well in group (at least I can).</blockquote>Yeah, personally, I don't really understand the complaints about the life drains on our spells. Out of combat, you can easily heal yourself with transfer life. However, it does help to have good AA and decent gear, otherwise lifetaps don't heal enough while in combat. But I can have all of them running and even after AOEs I can usually heal myself back to full, while other mages are down a bit of health. Even Lifeburn I can heal myself through. But the major complaint about AD is that it creates issues with the dot cap and spell double attack. Because of it, our two most fundamental spells (Pandemic and Soulrot) get no benefit from things like UT or SDA.</blockquote>You'll notice it when you are raiding. Blood pact,Lich and AD will be ticking away at your health when traumas, and AoEs and other detrimentals are on you and it's not pretty. Especially when you try to lifeburn on top of all of this.Also on joust fights if you run out of healer range you'll be in the yellow pretty quickly with all of these up.The major problem though is risk vs. reward. The developers are so quick to put all of these penalties on our class but the rewards just aren't there (excluding Lich) Lifeburn has been nerfed to hell AD is broken and doesn't stack properly with UTBlood Pact drains health and power? Undead Horde drains your healthDark Hearts trade health for power

Avirodar

12-11-2010, 06:11 PM

<cite>Jezes@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nice to see the Illusionist changes coming.In addition to these changes, I highly suggest taking a look at Inquisition and fixing/changing it to be more useful. As it is now, I rarely cast that spell, unless there is absolutely nothing else to cast.</blockquote>I would like to voice my full support of the bolded comment / suggestion.Inquisition has been a lack-lustre ability since it was introduced. Inquisition should provide similar desirability to the effectiveness of Repent for the Templar class. Right now, Inquisition is an ability I almost never use.

Davngr1

12-11-2010, 08:19 PM

<cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jezes@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nice to see the Illusionist changes coming.In addition to these changes, I highly suggest taking a look at Inquisition and fixing/changing it to be more useful. As it is now, I rarely cast that spell, unless there is absolutely nothing else to cast.</blockquote>I would like to voice my full support of the bolded comment / suggestion.Inquisition has been a lack-lustre ability since it was introduced. Inquisition should provide similar desirability to the effectiveness of Repent for the Templar class. Right now, Inquisition is an ability I almost never use.</blockquote> yea imo it should be made a melee range utililty or some sort. like if an aoe is inc it will cure or heal/ward up to 3 people hit by the aoe or something like that. make the recast so it's up once every other aoe or something and make it group member and non direct damage only. again you would still need other wards,resist and crit mit but this would greatly reduce the chance of death.

snowli

12-12-2010, 12:52 PM

Whichever dev is doing the illy changes needs to be forced to try and power a raid as the ONLY chanter first with a coercer, and then with an illusionist. So they fully understand some of the power changes for illy that are needed.Hopefully just the experience of nearly constantly either buffing single target buffs or temp buffs on the illy will be enough to give some insight into dps and buffing issues.

Xisi

12-13-2010, 04:52 PM

<cite>snowline wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whichever dev is doing the illy changes needs to be forced to try and power a raid as the ONLY chanter first with a coercer, and then with an illusionist. So they fully understand some of the power changes for illy that are needed.Hopefully just the experience of nearly constantly either buffing single target buffs or temp buffs on the illy will be enough to give some insight into dps and buffing issues.</blockquote>If my illy is cursed or disabled for extended time, my group will have no power. Illy just has much harder mode than coercer. More temp buffs, more individual buffs, and our hardest hitting spell is a buff on melee, which could be hard if the melee couldn't hit the mob in raid.

Caizic

12-13-2010, 06:22 PM

PLEASE do something about fury power! Its not fun when I can burn my ALL power in 15-20 seconds, or hell.. just reduce the power cost on Porcupine lol

Xisi

12-14-2010, 12:21 PM

My impression overall is that developers have spent disproportionately time on summoners while other classes are getting neglected such as brawlers.Now raids often have 2 summoners while no brawlers are desired. Summoners, quit whining. I am tired of all summoners' whine since RoK. You are the best solo class and now you are best dps class in raid. You are oped overall in this game, period. You don't need all your spells and AA desireable. Enchanters have their whole CCs spells, like 6 spells for each class, useless, 2 full AAs lines useless for either solo or raid. I am sure other classes also have some AAs or spells not useful. Developers, please diverge some time on other classes and update those useless spells/AAs.

Notsovilepriest

12-14-2010, 04:57 PM

<cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>My impression overall is that developers have spent disproportionately time on summoners while other classes are getting neglected such as brawlers.Now raids often have 2 summoners while no brawlers are desired. Summoners, quit whining. I am tired of all summoners' whine since RoK. You are the best solo class and now you are best dps class in raid. You are oped overall in this game, period. You don't need all your spells and AA desireable. Enchanters have their whole CCs spells, like 6 spells for each class, useless, 2 full AAs lines useless for either solo or raid. I am sure other classes also have some AAs or spells not useful. Developers, please diverge some time on other classes and update those useless spells/AAs.</blockquote>Most good brawlers quit or play other classes from when they did suck, they don't now and are desired, just like every tank in raid guilds really, 1 per.

Renoen Shadowspawn

12-14-2010, 05:12 PM

Interesting update. read first 2 pages n stopped. biggest thing i saw was Dakkota is smart. pet class gear can make a pet BEAST MODE except for the fact that its impossible to find good pet crit gear ( not sure if any is in the deep parts of underfoot depths)...so sharing stats with pet would mean pet at 100% crit, which means game f'n over cause if my pet sees 100% crit you will only see the floor. play necro Carstein on Unrest and will be interested in seeing these changes. and if they go bad i've started p lvl'ng every class to 90 for x pac. then i can pick whatever new best or funnest class is. think i'm close to 6 or 7 90's now...maybe this x pac will give me something else to do like explore!p.s. still kinda shocked dakkota realizes pet classes can't get pet crit. knowing other classes only betters u imo. which is why i'm currently playing each to learn em all

Germs666

12-14-2010, 08:50 PM

<cite>Xisi@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are the best solo class and now you are best dps class in raid. You are oped overall in this game, period. </blockquote>Lol! You are very wrong sir. Read the Necromancer boards then read the conjurer boards. Notice a difference?Brawlers do need some love I agree so do necros,brigands,furies,rangers and illusionists.

LardLord

12-14-2010, 09:11 PM

<cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawlers do need some love I agree so do necros,brigands,furies,rangers and illusionists.</blockquote>Brawlers do not need any love...neither do Furies.

Bruener

12-14-2010, 09:18 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawlers do need some love I agree so do necros,brigands,furies,rangers and illusionists.</blockquote>Brawlers do not need any love...neither do Furies.</blockquote>Doubt Rangers do either after the Bow/Ranged mechanics change.

LardLord

12-14-2010, 09:22 PM

<cite>Bruener wrote:</cite><blockquote>Doubt Rangers do either after the Bow/Ranged mechanics change.</blockquote>They could still use improved utility and/or more ranged-ness, imo. DPS-wise they're doing pretty well now, but so are Swashbucklers, for example, and Swashies have a hate transfer and better debuffs.EDIT: Though really, with the AE DPS they can put out now, dunno, maybe you're right.

Davngr1

12-14-2010, 09:28 PM

necro need something to off set the weak SF end line.

Argyuile

12-15-2010, 06:37 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawlers do need some love I agree so do necros,brigands,furies,rangers and illusionists.</blockquote>Brawlers do not need any love...neither do Furies.</blockquote>Unless your raiding, in which case you never need furies and would only use a Brawler for what? One mob.

Notsovilepriest

12-15-2010, 07:16 PM

<cite>Argyuile@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawlers do need some love I agree so do necros,brigands,furies,rangers and illusionists.</blockquote>Brawlers do not need any love...neither do Furies.</blockquote>Unless your raiding, in which case you never need furies and would only use a Brawler for what? One mob.</blockquote>False, You are talking to ,I believe the raid leader of a guild who has cleared the whole expansion, with a fury that has solo healed majority of their encounters, including HM construct(IIRC) and a bruiser OT. Brawlers do great work in raid and so do furies.

Argyuile

12-15-2010, 08:02 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Argyuile@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawlers do need some love I agree so do necros,brigands,furies,rangers and illusionists.</blockquote>Brawlers do not need any love...neither do Furies.</blockquote>Unless your raiding, in which case you never need furies and would only use a Brawler for what? One mob.</blockquote>False, You are talking to ,I believe the raid leader of a guild who has cleared the whole expansion, with a fury that has solo healed majority of their encounters, including HM construct(IIRC) and a bruiser OT. Brawlers do great work in raid and so do furies.</blockquote>First ask yourself how many MT's are brawlers vs crusaders or Fighters. Then ask yourself if an average fighter or crusader can tank a mob as well as an average brawler.The fact is it takes an amazing brawler to do as well tanking raid mobs as an average warrior or crusader. I'm not saying furys can't heal in raids I'm saying I NEED Templars and I NEED Shamans, if I don't have a fury, who cares.

Slowin

12-15-2010, 08:24 PM

Brawlers (at least bruisers since i know next to nothing about monks so i won't speak for them) make excellent tanks. They have like a billion snap (okay like 7 or 8?) aggros and their survivability is just fine.. i can't imagine some fights without one. And yay.. age old complaints about druids. A raid without any druids is making its life alot harder than it needs to. The only group that generally absolutely needs a cleric and shaman is the MT group and this only on the hardest fights the expansion has to offer. Pretty much any other group can be built around whatever healers you have.

Corydonn

12-17-2010, 11:03 PM

<cite>Argyuile@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Argyuile@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawlers do need some love I agree so do necros,brigands,furies,rangers and illusionists.</blockquote>Brawlers do not need any love...neither do Furies.</blockquote>Unless your raiding, in which case you never need furies and would only use a Brawler for what? One mob.</blockquote>False, You are talking to ,I believe the raid leader of a guild who has cleared the whole expansion, with a fury that has solo healed majority of their encounters, including HM construct(IIRC) and a bruiser OT. Brawlers do great work in raid and so do furies.</blockquote>First ask yourself how many MT's are brawlers vs crusaders or Fighters. Then ask yourself if an average fighter or crusader can tank a mob as well as an average brawler.The fact is it takes an amazing brawler to do as well tanking raid mobs as an average warrior or crusader. I'm not saying furys can't heal in raids I'm saying I NEED Templars and I NEED Shamans, if I don't have a fury, who cares.</blockquote>Brawlers can MT but it's much more beneficial (( and fun imo.)) to be an offtank, They do a pretty hefty amount of DPS and can give the MT a crazy amount of survivability through stoneskins, Intercedes and avoidance lends. It's pretty much the MT's survivability plus the brawlers survivability added onto it as if the brawler were tanking the mob themselves. The only thing that needs to change about brawlers is the WTFhorrible itemization they've given us. Bad weapons along with T4 Armor that is hardly worth upgrading compared to the plate tank counterparts with differences of 6% crit bonus on one item and the leather tank legs and boots missing proc upgrades. (( The tank legs got the stonewill proc to match the plate but the boots are still missing the upgrade of Vicious Focus that the plates got. ))

Bruener

12-18-2010, 06:08 PM

<cite>Argyuile@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Argyuile@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Germs666 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Brawlers do need some love I agree so do necros,brigands,furies,rangers and illusionists.</blockquote>Brawlers do not need any love...neither do Furies.</blockquote>Unless your raiding, in which case you never need furies and would only use a Brawler for what? One mob.</blockquote>False, You are talking to ,I believe the raid leader of a guild who has cleared the whole expansion, with a fury that has solo healed majority of their encounters, including HM construct(IIRC) and a bruiser OT. Brawlers do great work in raid and so do furies.</blockquote>First ask yourself how many MT's are brawlers vs crusaders or Fighters. Then ask yourself if an average fighter or crusader can tank a mob as well as an average brawler.The fact is it takes an amazing brawler to do as well tanking raid mobs as an average warrior or crusader. I'm not saying furys can't heal in raids I'm saying I NEED Templars and I NEED Shamans, if I don't have a fury, who cares.</blockquote>The problem is that you have this concept that in order for a fighter to be a good contributor to the raid they have to be a good MT.While a Brawler can MT and can OT mobs well, what they really excel at is at CC. There are quite a few encounters that run a lot smoother with that CC in the raid. People should be playing Brawlers, and raids should be recruiting Brawlers, based on their superior ability to control mobs in encounters along with their fantastic temp tank ability and survivability provided to the MT.As for Furies, they can parse well and solo heal a group at the same time. Great to see a good one in action.

Thunndar316

12-19-2010, 01:57 PM

Anything for Swashies?Like maybe replacing that Strikethrough garbage with something useful?

Notsovilepriest

12-20-2010, 12:09 AM

<cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Anything for Swashies?Like maybe replacing that Strikethrough garbage with something useful?</blockquote>Not sure if serious

StaticLex

12-20-2010, 01:07 AM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry guys, it turns out that the rest of the information is on lockdown for the time being, so you'll have to wait for Velious to see the rest of the cool stuff we have in store for you.For an early look and an opportunity to give lots of feedback on the changes, don't forget to apply for Beta once the signups are posted.</blockquote>So about when will the beta signups be posted?

Notsovilepriest

12-20-2010, 01:20 AM

Next month, so you get less than 1 month to test content in "beta" before true beta starts!

KNINE

12-20-2010, 04:24 AM

what's on the agenda for mystics.. something like taking away the worthless DA proc on our myth and putting something else on it.. or putting potentcy back on our myth instead of +ability mod.. just curious.....

Notsovilepriest

12-20-2010, 04:31 AM

<cite>KNINE wrote:</cite><blockquote>what's on the agenda for mystics.. something like taking away the worthless DA proc on our myth and putting something else on it.. or putting potentcy back on our myth instead of +ability mod.. just curious.....</blockquote>Expansion coming the Multi Attack won't be useless, it will actually be nice, but they should add the base back like it was. Maybe drop Spirit Tap down to 7 min recast base too would be a welcomed change, and slightly increasing Runic Armors ward amount to be about that of Shroud of Armor.

Hamervelder

12-20-2010, 10:58 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>necro need something to off set the weak SF end line.</blockquote>They need to remove the cap on ticks for DoTs and make spells like UT stack with AD. That alone would be great. AD by itself is pretty potent, IMO, but the health drain and the aforementioned cap on ticks sort of hamstring it.

Cusashorn

12-20-2010, 11:33 AM

<cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only thing that needs to change about brawlers is the WTFhorrible itemization they've given us. Bad weapons along with T4 Armor that is hardly worth upgrading compared to the plate tank counterparts with differences of 6% crit bonus on one item and the leather tank legs and boots missing proc upgrades. (( The tank legs got the stonewill proc to match the plate but the boots are still missing the upgrade of Vicious Focus that the plates got. ))</blockquote>I agree. Brawler itemization is freaking horrible. Combining Brawlers + Druids together just because they use the same armor type is bad enough, but all the raid armor I see is designed in favor towards the druid than the brawler. Also, [Removed for Content] is up with putting INTELLIGENCE on the armor? It is quite literally a useless stat to all fighters now, and arn't druids based off wisdom? What purpose does it serve them?

StaticLex

12-20-2010, 03:39 PM

<cite>KNINE wrote:</cite><blockquote>what's on the agenda for mystics.. something like taking away the worthless DA proc on our myth and putting something else on it.. or putting potentcy back on our myth instead of +ability mod.. just curious.....</blockquote>More like changing the huge number of AAs and red adorns to not enchance cast speed since it's basically 100% worthless this expansion.

Aelfan

12-21-2010, 02:19 PM

<cite>Caizic wrote:</cite><blockquote>PLEASE do something about fury power! Its not fun when I can burn my ALL power in 15-20 seconds, or hell.. just reduce the power cost on Porcupine lol</blockquote>YES PLEASE!!!!!!

Aelfan

12-21-2010, 02:24 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rangers:Your Hawk Attack should work much better, and Coverage should be less affected by lag.</blockquote>It would be wonderful if you made this class less dependent on sneaking. I would really like my archer to be able to at least shoot people without having to go invisible first! It is also unfortunate that they can't use their master strike unless behind the target, especially since the devious swashie can just convince them to turn their back, and THEN knife them!

Carthington

12-21-2010, 08:00 PM

<cite>Illiam@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>necro need something to off set the weak SF end line.</blockquote>They need to remove the cap on ticks for DoTs and make spells like UT stack with AD. That alone would be great. AD by itself is pretty potent, IMO, but the health drain and the aforementioned cap on ticks sort of hamstring it.</blockquote>Do not get confused...AD and UT stack, its only the dot caps that needs adjusting

Banditman

12-22-2010, 10:56 AM

They already said that the health cost of AD is going away, and frankly, the cap on ticks is no different than caps on anything else. We all deal with some caps, which make certain things less effective for various classes.

Hamervelder

12-22-2010, 12:15 PM

<cite>Carthington wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Illiam@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>necro need something to off set the weak SF end line.</blockquote>They need to remove the cap on ticks for DoTs and make spells like UT stack with AD. That alone would be great. AD by itself is pretty potent, IMO, but the health drain and the aforementioned cap on ticks sort of hamstring it.</blockquote>Do not get confused...AD and UT stack, its only the dot caps that needs adjusting</blockquote>Yes, they technically stack (as in, one doesn't cancel the other out) but since there's a cap to the number of ticks per dot, the additional tick portion of UT doesn't really benefit us (necromancers) if we have AD up.

Raahl

12-22-2010, 12:53 PM

I have little hope that Sony will fix issues with balance, especially between the tanking classes. Plus finding solid roles for multiple tanks in raids is near non-existent. Extra tanks are relegated to being second hand DPS, a roll which would be better filled by another class archtype.

Banditman

12-22-2010, 02:00 PM

In general . . .Offensive Stance: +100% Potency, +100 Crit Bonus, -50% Mitigation.

LardLord

12-22-2010, 04:25 PM

<cite>Raahl wrote:</cite><blockquote>Plus finding solid roles for multiple tanks in raids is near non-existent. Extra tanks are relegated to being second hand DPS, a roll which would be better filled by another class archtype.</blockquote>I assume you haven't raided much this expansion. Almost every hard mode fight is much easier with multiple tanks (in most cases it's practically required).

Banditman

12-22-2010, 04:47 PM

I'm actually having trouble coming up with a Hard mode fight where you don't need at least two tanks. Pretty much two or more for HM content. Waansu is really the only one that comes to mind, and it would be AWFULLY hard to deal with those adds.

Yure

12-22-2010, 04:58 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only thing that needs to change about brawlers is the WTFhorrible itemization they've given us. Bad weapons along with T4 Armor that is hardly worth upgrading compared to the plate tank counterparts with differences of 6% crit bonus on one item and the leather tank legs and boots missing proc upgrades. (( The tank legs got the stonewill proc to match the plate but the boots are still missing the upgrade of Vicious Focus that the plates got. ))</blockquote>I agree. Brawler itemization is freaking horrible. Combining Brawlers + Druids together just because they use the same armor type is bad enough, but all the raid armor I see is designed in favor towards the druid than the brawler. Also, [Removed for Content] is up with putting INTELLIGENCE on the armor? It is quite literally a useless stat to all fighters now, and arn't druids based off wisdom? What purpose does it serve them?</blockquote>Int is used to determine a Healers base Crit Mit. AGI for Fighter & Scouts Int for Mages & healers.

Notsovilepriest

12-22-2010, 06:41 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm actually having trouble coming up with a Hard mode fight where you don't need at least two tanks. Pretty much two or more for HM content. Waansu is really the only one that comes to mind, and it would be AWFULLY hard to deal with those adds.</blockquote>We do HM construct with 1 sometimes, but normally 2.

Crismorn

12-22-2010, 07:02 PM

<cite>Banditman wrote:</cite><blockquote>In general . . .Offensive Stance: +100% Potency, +100 Crit Bonus, -50% Mitigation.</blockquote>Sounds great, make sure all class stances are tuned with this in mind

Iacon

12-25-2010, 03:56 AM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote> Rangers:Your Hawk Attack should work much better</blockquote>Better like, this much better?<img src="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/boed_gallery/75057.jpg" width="400" height="320" />

Stormflint

12-26-2010, 03:35 PM

<cite>Iacon@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote> Rangers:Your Hawk Attack should work much better</blockquote>Better like, this much better?<img src="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/boed_gallery/75057.jpg" width="400" height="320" /></blockquote>Whoops! Someone just discovered the Ranger's new Flying Mount.

Aelfan

12-28-2010, 12:57 PM

<cite>Stormflint@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Iacon@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote> Rangers:Your Hawk Attack should work much better</blockquote>Better like, this much better?<img src="http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/boed_gallery/75057.jpg" width="400" height="320" /></blockquote>Whoops! Someone just discovered the Ranger's new Flying Mount.</blockquote>THAT would be really cool! But something that would also be nice would be if the hawk pet the ranger has could be SCALED like you can with attack pets. All my rangers are little, and it really looks like the damned thing is going to swoop down and fly off with them! It would also be nice if it actually was an attack pet!

SageGaspar

12-29-2010, 06:47 AM

Just wanted to echo Quabi's comments from earlier in the thread that you shouldn't rock the boat too much. Classes are as closed to balance as they ever have been. All DPS classes are functional as DPS, all fighters are functional as tanks, all utility is desirable. There can be some tweaking of DPS and there's still worthless spells floating around and silliness with dumbfires but that's relatively minor. Raids are bringing more tanks than I can remember ever bringing without being very detrimental.The four bards/four chanters paradigm has been in the game for quite some time and doesn't really need fixing as far as I'm concerned. If anything work on making troubs and illies a bit more fun to play.SF was pretty good as far as the content that existed went. My only personal problems with it were a lack of difficult heroics and challenging open dungeons, and incredibly generic loot outside of UFD Wing 3. I know some others like more variety in overland zones which would be cool too. I really didn't hear many complaints outside of that from the people I knew.Anyway it's a roundabout post but I guess my main point is that class balance isn't really broke. I've seen some talking points about class balance in this thread that haven't been true for six months, a year, even longer that people just like repeating. Take care your class adjustments don't adjust it right back into being unbalanced again.

Striikor

12-29-2010, 09:14 AM

<cite>SageGaspar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just wanted to echo Quabi's comments from earlier in the thread that you shouldn't rock the boat too much. Classes are as closed to balance as they ever have been. All DPS classes are functional as DPS, all fighters are functional as tanks, all utility is desirable. There can be some tweaking of DPS and there's still worthless spells floating around and silliness with dumbfires but that's relatively minor. Raids are bringing more tanks than I can remember ever bringing without being very detrimental.The four bards/four chanters paradigm has been in the game for quite some time and doesn't really need fixing as far as I'm concerned. If anything work on making troubs and illies a bit more fun to play.SF was pretty good as far as the content that existed went. My only personal problems with it were a lack of difficult heroics and challenging open dungeons, and incredibly generic loot outside of UFD Wing 3. I know some others like more variety in overland zones which would be cool too. I really didn't hear many complaints outside of that from the people I knew.Anyway it's a roundabout post but I guess my main point is that class balance isn't really broke. I've seen some talking points about class balance in this thread that haven't been true for six months, a year, even longer that people just like repeating. Take care your class adjustments don't adjust it right back into being unbalanced again.</blockquote>Yup, that's balance for yas!!!

SageGaspar

12-29-2010, 11:19 AM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yup, that's balance for yas!!!</blockquote>What do you prefer? The "best" dps comes and goes per expansion and gear and particular boss. Someone's gotta be the bottom of the dogpile, if they're all in a decent range of each other and any of them could fill a DPS slot without dragging your raid down that's the best you can really ask.As far as group instances, it'll shake out the same way when you get to content that isn't mass pulled and knocked down. Against stuff that is... who cares? I'm usually the top DPS and I barely ever bother turning on ACT these days. The mobs die, I don't particularly care if it takes 30 minutes or 35 minutes. Now I'm in complete agreement if you think it's a shame all the group instances shake out this way except for the one little boring four room dungeon they added in, but such is this expansion.

Striikor

12-29-2010, 12:31 PM

Ahhh the point is that there are four functions provided by classes it is what makes them desirable to include. Tank, Healer, Utility and DPS all of which used to have compelling reasons to include. Now everyone gets DPS whether a Tank, Healer or Utility. I don't see pure DPS getting, survivability, heals or utility. And they shouldn't but there needs to be a huge gap in the ability to generate DPS. There is not, at least not enough to prevent exclusion of a pure DPS class to get a zone cleared or a BG won.When the primary functionality of a class is handed out piece meal to every other class it skews the balance but then that is only my opinion.I do have to LOL when I hear tanks asking for more DPS. Unique to have by far the highest survivability, heals, stuns, taunts and DPS and complain about not having enough. Tanks are incredibly unbalanced and totally ignore their primary function in many many cases. Many don't tank anymore they DPS and they do it well. They no longer measure their performance by the survival of their group but by their own DPS or Kills.It is rare to find a tank in BG's for instance that bothers to taunt or fulfill their function. They are too busy trying to hold the flag/relic AND top the DPS to protect their group. This is particularly frustrating on my Mystic in BG. But it is actually fairly common place in instances too. Most classes are just along for the ride when a fully equipped tank is doing a zone.Pure DPS gives up survivability, heals and Utility to DPS. Utility gives up ... tanks give up ..... Healers give up.... what?Perhaps EQ2 should totally drop the 4 pure dps classes. Give DPS stuff that encroaches just as badly into Survivability, Utility and Heals and call them WardenWiz, Zerkerlock, ShadowAssassin and RangerPal LOL and Yuk!

Lafiell

12-29-2010, 01:38 PM

Troubador:Rejuvenating Celebration and Countersong will be seeing some boosts.I have a Trouby I love playing even though my soloing ability is the PITS and my DPS leaves something to be desired but I like the fact that Trouby's will be getting a little bit of love in the expansion.With the above said I am still a buff bot and I do not mind as long as I can get to go along on raids and have fun.

Lafiell

12-29-2010, 02:02 PM

<cite>Aurelis wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yay!! Now I can stop fretting on whether or not pet buff gear is what I should be after or not!I am much curious about the Accelerated Decay thing, as well!</blockquote>Ok my comment is really about the picture Aurelis attached on page 1 of this discussion. If we could make Vampires look like that Blue Skinned goddes and hair that looked like that on any of our female toons I would say we had something. Not only that but look at the clothes developers. That is the way a lot of us would like to be able to make our toon look.I know that is outside class adjustments but I hope a developer reads this and takes to heart the looks of that picture.

Arcanias

12-29-2010, 06:13 PM

Any chance mages can get an auto-attack that is balanced with other auto-attacks? How about a wand that does a ranged magical auto-attack? It can take the place of our ranged slot or ammo slot.

Carpediem

01-01-2011, 04:43 PM

Can rangers finally get a fix to our auto attack after using melee CA's? It really sucks that I have to use a macro on my G19 keyboard to work around a problem that you guys were supposed to fix a year ago. The /autoattack 2 macros just stink and only work half the time.If you make us more ranged like you have been talking about and we don't need to use melee CA's at higher levels then the problem is solved but something tells me to not be to optimistic on that.

Cisgo

01-02-2011, 02:54 PM

<cite>Pirotess@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>summoners are horribly out of balance with pet stat gear period. it makes far more sense to do consolidated stats so soe can have much greater control over their overall balance. as they are now they are entirely dependant upon what pet stat gear pieces they can get and if you get all the right ones conj's are overpowered largely due to EB.furthermore there is no adequate compensation to other mages on gear to balance out the type of gain a summoner gets from a stat bonus like destructive forces. 13 potency and 13 crit bonus to a conj or necro pet from 1 piece of gear is horribly overpowered when you look at a sorc using their version of that piece that gives 2.8 cb and 2.8 potency. *edit* i.e. sublime dagger.gear can still be tailored to dif types of classes as dif people want more cast speed or more reuse more potency etc. what should be looked at along with stat consolidation is modifying the cast/reuse cap so it can go higher then 50%. as it is now its far to easy to half your casting speed and reuse with the right gear and setup. at one point i had 97% cast speed and 98.5% reuse in a raid and i could focus solely on potency and cb. and this was before any of the underfoot gear. also i think it'd be a nice twist on things to start having gear, jewelry especially that had bonus to abilities so they could become more class specific. im sure a lot of people would flame it saying it'd b ehorrible you'd never get the one you need but at least it'd be more itemization based and not have EVERY mage wearing the exact same thing.point is there are a lot of options they could do if they just broadened their scope but pet stats on gear has been proven with this xpac to be a bad way to do it. it leaves summoners way to out of balance and especially for the high end compared to low end when you look at how much dps the pet does vs the actual summoner depending on their gear. a bad conj shoudln't have their pet do 3x their dps simply bc of cb/potency pet bonus's on gear.</blockquote> The above post is pretty much dead on. I have seen this bad moon rising since SoF beta. The conjuror class especially have reason to be upset with these proposed changes. Lets face it, the high end ones are over the top..period. Time warped, Plane shifted, insanely geared pets firing off 1-1.5 mil EB's every 90 sec are bound to draw some attention. With a few pieces of gear most high end conjurors went from a T2 DPS class to the top of the parse. Not sure how this will effect the necromancer, he relys much less on his pet for DPS. It is a change that in my opinion was needed for the long run. There are other glaring balance issues however. The way the necromancer does not benefit like other classes from Time Warp, the UT "tick" issue, dumbfires, to name a few. Looking foward to see what the developers have in store for summoners this round.

Xisi

01-03-2011, 04:20 PM

<cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ahhh the point is that there are four functions provided by classes it is what makes them desirable to include. Tank, Healer, Utility and DPS all of which used to have compelling reasons to include. Now everyone gets DPS whether a Tank, Healer or Utility. I don't see pure DPS getting, survivability, heals or utility. And they shouldn't but there needs to be a huge gap in the ability to generate DPS. There is not, at least not enough to prevent exclusion of a pure DPS class to get a zone cleared or a BG won.When the primary functionality of a class is handed out piece meal to every other class it skews the balance but then that is only my opinion.I do have to LOL when I hear tanks asking for more DPS. Unique to have by far the highest survivability, heals, stuns, taunts and DPS and complain about not having enough. Tanks are incredibly unbalanced and totally ignore their primary function in many many cases. Many don't tank anymore they DPS and they do it well. They no longer measure their performance by the survival of their group but by their own DPS or Kills.It is rare to find a tank in BG's for instance that bothers to taunt or fulfill their function. They are too busy trying to hold the flag/relic AND top the DPS to protect their group. This is particularly frustrating on my Mystic in BG. But it is actually fairly common place in instances too. Most classes are just along for the ride when a fully equipped tank is doing a zone.Pure DPS gives up survivability, heals and Utility to DPS. Utility gives up ... tanks give up ..... Healers give up.... what?Perhaps EQ2 should totally drop the 4 pure dps classes. Give DPS stuff that encroaches just as badly into Survivability, Utility and Heals and call them WardenWiz, Zerkerlock, ShadowAssassin and RangerPal LOL and Yuk!</blockquote>I agree with you regarding tanks and disagree with you regarding dps classes.At least right now in BG, wizzy and warlock are best survivable mages and best dps while utilty classes are least in both. How many warlock and wizzy do you see in a typical BG compared to other mages? They are also nightmare to kill with their shield and survival skills.Same with assassin and rangers, T1. They have very good surviability and hit really really hard.

Odys

01-05-2011, 02:09 AM

No plan to fix healers ?Raids are not to much found of druids, warden dps is no way below were it should be (fury have much much higher dps. equal or superior healing abilties, better utility). Indeed i will betray (which mean loosing all my masters and a bunch of raid marks).No plan either to decrease the impact of buffers on a group or riad ?I know that Devs are mostly interested in Dps classes, they don want to bother curing and keeping people alive, focussing on the opt dps seuqnce if 100 time easier. I m a bit fed up with the lack of consideration for people that actually enjoy playing healers.

Banditman

01-05-2011, 04:11 PM

<cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote> Indeed i will betray (which mean loosing all my masters and a bunch of raid marks)</blockquote>No need to wait. You can betray right now, and you don't lose your masters should you decide to betray back. You will have to aquire new Masters for the new class, but if you betray back, your old Masters will still be there. There is absolutely no excuse now for people who feel that their sister class is better.

ShadyCharacter

01-10-2011, 06:43 AM

Yeh lets remove the dot cap cause a good necro can already do T1 dps but that's not good enough, we want T0! What about giving Brigands a break. We have the least dps potential of all the dps classes, with the resist changes, the amazing reflex changes and the worst agro managment of any scout we also have less utility than most classes. Brigands need to be looked at, there is a reason they are the least played class.It was the mitigation debuffs that made a Brigand, and something we paid through the roof for but with many classes having significant debuffs along with the consolidation of resists (and hence mit debuffs) a Brigand contributes very little to a raid these days.I fondly remember the day I missed a raid and everyone was glad to see me back because my Brigand made everyone hit harder and more often. That is not the case these days.There may be other classes that need as much or even more loving but Brigands defenitly need some buffing, especially with the divide set to further widen with the incoming off hand proc changes.

x82nd77

01-10-2011, 11:34 AM

All in all this game and the overall balance of the classes has become quite a clusterfrak. You have no balance between melee and mages, no balance between mages who do burst vs. dots, no balance between pet classes vs. everyone. There has been one tank class that has been able to out dps mages, out survive guardians, and out solo everyone for two years now. Rangers have been next to useless in the high tiers for how long while their sister class is the strongest of the dpsers.Personally I am tired of it. Tired of broken mechanics and broken promises from this company. I have been here since launch and have never been as disgusted with the overall condition of the game as I am now. It has become obvious that the focus of the devs is not on making the game a better place but of things like EQ2x and selling us things that we got for free for the first 5 years of the game. But don't worry... there will be a new race and mount to buy next week on station cash to take your mind off of it.

Greatscate

01-10-2011, 01:50 PM

<cite>SageGaspar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yup, that's balance for yas!!!</blockquote>What do you prefer? The "best" dps comes and goes per expansion and gear and particular boss. Someone's gotta be the bottom of the dogpile, if they're all in a decent range of each other and any of them could fill a DPS slot without dragging your raid down that's the best you can really ask.As far as group instances, it'll shake out the same way when you get to content that isn't mass pulled and knocked down. Against stuff that is... who cares? I'm usually the top DPS and I barely ever bother turning on ACT these days. The mobs die, I don't particularly care if it takes 30 minutes or 35 minutes. Now I'm in complete agreement if you think it's a shame all the group instances shake out this way except for the one little boring four room dungeon they added in, but such is this expansion.</blockquote>How about class specialization? No game will ever be truly balanced and in all honesty, the whole idea really irks me. Instead of making Coercer's and Illusionists a DPS class (like every other class in the game) why no actually implement them as mezzers in some encounters as they were originally intended? I know... its sounds totally bonkers! However, at one time this game did function in such a way. Then people started complaining that enchanters do too little DPS and the who system went up in smoke (pun intended). You originally had to be a total [Removed for Content] to choose an ENC class and think you were going to parse well... now it's expected.How about tanks? WOW - what a total mess this situation is! SKs had it rough originally, but for the past 2 years they have gone beastmode and do essentially whatever they want. They can out DPS some DPS classes / out TANK defensive specialty classes / and even have a few BUFF abilities to throw in the mix. Zerkers are close to this too. Meanwhile Guardians are practically non-existant because their Tank counterparts offer so much more. And I don't even want to get in to Monks/Bruisers... thats a whole new page in itself.Rangers have been practically useless since KoS, or maybe even a little before that. Dot classes < Burst dmg even on long fights. The list goes on and on. Balance for the sake of balance is utterly stupid. People want to know that they can do something no one else can... Only until class specialization returns will true balance be reached.

Garnaf

01-10-2011, 07:05 PM

<cite>Ranzal@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SageGaspar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yup, that's balance for yas!!!</blockquote>What do you prefer? The "best" dps comes and goes per expansion and gear and particular boss. Someone's gotta be the bottom of the dogpile, if they're all in a decent range of each other and any of them could fill a DPS slot without dragging your raid down that's the best you can really ask.As far as group instances, it'll shake out the same way when you get to content that isn't mass pulled and knocked down. Against stuff that is... who cares? I'm usually the top DPS and I barely ever bother turning on ACT these days. The mobs die, I don't particularly care if it takes 30 minutes or 35 minutes. Now I'm in complete agreement if you think it's a shame all the group instances shake out this way except for the one little boring four room dungeon they added in, but such is this expansion.</blockquote>How about class specialization? No game will ever be truly balanced and in all honesty, the whole idea really irks me. Instead of making Coercer's and Illusionists a DPS class (like every other class in the game) why no actually implement them as mezzers in some encounters as they were originally intended? I know... its sounds totally bonkers! However, at one time this game did function in such a way. Then people started complaining that enchanters do too little DPS and the who system went up in smoke (pun intended). You originally had to be a total [Removed for Content] to choose an ENC class and think you were going to parse well... now it's expected.How about tanks? WOW - what a total mess this situation is! SKs had it rough originally, but for the past 2 years they have gone beastmode and do essentially whatever they want. They can out DPS some DPS classes / out TANK defensive specialty classes / and even have a few BUFF abilities to throw in the mix. Zerkers are close to this too. Meanwhile Guardians are practically non-existant because their Tank counterparts offer so much more. And I don't even want to get in to Monks/Bruisers... thats a whole new page in itself.Rangers have been practically useless since KoS, or maybe even a little before that. Dot classes < Burst dmg even on long fights. The list goes on and on. Balance for the sake of balance is utterly stupid. People want to know that they can do something no one else can... Only until class specialization returns will true balance be reached.</blockquote>So we're balanced as long as we all do the SAME thing and there's no specialization in classes? good to know (proof reading, it protects your dignity. Like pants!)Actually, QFE beyond the typo there at the end. Class specialization would bring a lot to the game, why bring say, a ranger over an assassin? what does A offer that B doesn't? Balance isn't "all classes to the same thing, just differently", it's when you're so happy with the toys you get that you don't envy the toys your counterpart has and when everyone brings something unique and desirable to a group or raid. (keeping it along classic class lines before archtype there. Warrior, Crusader, Brawler. Cleric, Druid, Shaman. Sorceror, Summoner, Enchanter. Rogue, Bard, and Predator.)There is more the balance than just DPSDPSDPSDPS (and HPSHPSHPSHPS!). Buffs, control, all these things make classes desireable.A pure DPS class should be insanely good at it, but they should also be giving up some pretty major and desirable utility to get that.

ericsutter

01-13-2011, 12:38 PM

wow a change to rejuvenating celebration and countersong.....my Rejuv Cel is at apprentice and countersong gets used when the raid leader has an oh I'm unloading in my pants moment.......if that is it for troubs then srsly why even bother.....OH and giving bruisers/brawlers that [Removed for Content] Blade Mastery thing or w/e where group hits for max CA everytime.....jeebus w/e....if that is true it's the lamest thing I've read in a long F'in time. Mega Meh.....well back to waiting for the server to be back up

Erbegottes

01-14-2011, 04:39 AM

First of all I want u to excuse my bad language, school is long time ago and i just don t know better.*Shared Stats* [Removed for Content] ! Hey, gime some of the stuff u smokin , maybe this way i get it!if only for Ilu i would understand, but hey if i remeber right Ilus was a kind of supporting class, nerving the DPS of them is by far not the same u are going to do with conjurer/necro what hav summoners else beside Pet wich is only with all the petbuffs and the way better stats capable of gettin near Wizards/Sorcerers DPS ? oh i guess Swarm pets and mana shards. Hooray! stop nervin us, just because this stupid flamin Kiddies, which are only aloud to play limited time/day and this way have so much time to write all that wiener posts! If they would spend 3 evenings a week in raids and if them not totally retardet as like them act , they can get that Gear too. and if mommy is not allowing to play zhat late , go start ur own Raid com , the time u get off school u would have nearly no laggin Raid instances!Conjurer overpowered ? to what a supporting class that does nearly same Dps and would always are first choice of taking into a Raid? or to "real" Dps casters like wizards? Hey WAKE up without a troub or ilu supporting a Conj they would never get into near of their Dps and even if both supportet/equiped equal every wizard who know what he does will outparse a conj , and lookin at zone Dps would show u this even more as Fact!and that creppy Necros who are flaming for EB, ... what u thinking conj have in addition to that , if all spells has 20% higher damage they could flag it toxic and make it necro spell, i wouldn t mind ! in fact our raid necro has nearly same equip and is on one encounter better and at the other i am ! and if ur talkin bout go solo on Heroic encounters the necro actually fights them,when the conjurer already hav to snare/Dps and root/reggen them down , and if this is takin 15min(with EB) or 30min (without) , who cares!I Really Really Hope, not as we used to, u know what ur doing with that *Shared Stats* kind of genious Idea !so sleepin with crossed fingers and the last paw of that poor white Rabbit, until next Conjurer Nerf is going on Live.....

Greatscate

01-14-2011, 11:07 AM

Edit:Nevermind. Re-read and understand...

Jeepned2

01-17-2011, 03:35 PM

WOOHOO!!!!!!!!!The changes for Coercers gives me such a warm feeling!!!!Oh, <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" /> no real coercers changes? And that warm feeling is just me filling up my Depends?Well I guess the promised coercer changes and my Depends are both just full of *$&@.

Xethren

01-17-2011, 10:50 PM

With the way things are, Jeened2, I would rather our class (coercers) is left alone rather than messed with further. As everytime we get adjusted we get nerfed pretty hard.

Gimmiethat

02-17-2011, 11:54 AM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry guys, it turns out that the rest of the information is on lockdown for the time being, so you'll have to wait for Velious to see the rest of the cool stuff we have in store for you.For an early look and an opportunity to give lots of feedback on the changes, don't forget to apply for Beta once the signups are posted.</blockquote>Well, we're a week out and the NDA has been lifted... any chance we can get more details? My greedy reason:My main is a troub and have heard or read anything about the boosts to rejuvanting celebration or counter song. Anybody?

LardLord

02-17-2011, 05:28 PM

I don't play a Troub, but from memory, countersong is instant cast now and Rejuvenating Celebration grants around 1K HP in addition to the health regen.

Gimmiethat

02-17-2011, 05:30 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't play a Troub, but from memory, countersong is instant cast now and Rejuvenating Celebration grants around 1K HP in addition to the health regen.</blockquote>Thanks for the update. If I'm being honest.... is that it? Needs more work.

Geothe

02-17-2011, 07:04 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote> Needs more work.</blockquote>Lots of things are in this very category, and through out beta anything brought up was pretty much systematically ignored on the entire class mechanics front. Not even sure why they had a feedback forum for it in the first place when they outright ignore it.

Elwin

02-18-2011, 01:58 AM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seasons Greetings! We've been very busy the last few months, and I haven't been able to post here as much as I like, but I wanted give you guys a general overview on some of the class adjustments we've been working on for Velious. We have several other projects in progress right now, but this is a list of some adjustments we have ready to go so far. Necromancer:Accelerated Decay will no longer decay the Necromancer, just his (or her) enemies. Summoners, Enchanters and other pet users:At long last, shared stats will be a reality! Pet effects will be a thing of the past. </blockquote>Great start <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)) My necro thanks you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Eugam

02-18-2011, 06:15 AM

<cite>Baubo@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seasons Greetings! We've been very busy the last few months, and I haven't been able to post here as much as I like, but I wanted give you guys a general overview on some of the class adjustments we've been working on for Velious. We have several other projects in progress right now, but this is a list of some adjustments we have ready to go so far. Necromancer:Accelerated Decay will no longer decay the Necromancer, just his (or her) enemies. Summoners, Enchanters and other pet users:At long last, shared stats will be a reality! Pet effects will be a thing of the past.</blockquote>Great start <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />)) My necro thanks you <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>He wrote that also :Summoners:You will soon have a reason to cast your scout pets.Hehe, be prepared <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ShinGoku

02-18-2011, 06:35 AM

<cite>Eugam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Baubo@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Seasons Greetings! We've been very busy the last few months, and I haven't been able to post here as much as I like, but I wanted give you guys a general overview on some of the class adjustments we've been working on for Velious. We have several other projects in progress right now, but this is a list of some adjustments we have ready to go so far. Necromancer:Accelerated Decay will no longer decay the Necromancer, just his (or her) enemies. Summoners, Enchanters and other pet users:At long last, shared stats will be a reality! Pet effects will be a thing of the past.</blockquote>Great start <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />)) My necro thanks you <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>He wrote that also :Summoners:You will soon have a reason to cast your scout pets.Hehe, be prepared <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Err... Don't get too excited k?

hellfire

02-18-2011, 08:52 PM

<cite>Eugam wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hehe, be prepared <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>For?Because scout pets are still very crappy.

Jeepned2

02-19-2011, 12:45 PM

This post is mostly for enchanters.Didn't know my pet was screwed up and needed fixed, but ok, have at it.Didn't know there was that big of a problem with the Illusionist DPS, but congrats to them for getting a boost.Didn't hear where they where fixing the Illusionist mana nerf. Guess they don't think it's a nerf.Didn't hear where they are fixing the basic problem for both classes, no crowd control in raids, minimal in group zones.Didn't hear "we are looking into it", "right now we are focused on expansion 2012", or anything like that, yet.Didn't hear anything that was overtly exciting for enchanters other then Illusionist DPS.Didn't bother to buy the expansion.

Loldawg

03-10-2011, 02:29 PM

Enchanters - crowd control is useful in raid zones. Love it. Illies - DPS is beast now w/ the changes - easily leaving Coercers behind.Coercers - need pets that survive in raid zones - or at least make them able to damage mobs from ranged attacks - right now they only DPS if melee'ing.

Odys

03-11-2011, 04:33 AM

From my point of view they just allowed to unbalance between warden and furies to enlarge further. It's a conspiracy, and the Mossad or the Tcheka are in it.

Sydares

03-12-2011, 08:56 PM

Coverage still lags out far too easily, making it still extremely unenjoyable to use.

Striikor

03-22-2011, 10:15 AM

+1In most highend fights and always in PQ when there is alot going on coverage is almost a matter of luck to trigger right. Lag affects this CA disproportionately. It is actually easier to use EW effectively than it is to use coverage.Also FA can be a huge issue in the same scenario. I have had more than a few Doh!!! moments when I clicked FA twice because the first lagged. That is a bummer because it cancels FA. It used to make sense to have the ability to cancel FA, particularly when in the mage group in which it provided little benefit. They put one of the promary benefits of it in the Nature's Focus portion +37.5 to hit (on mine) and it very rarely makes sense to cancel it since then.

Hisvet

03-24-2011, 12:19 PM

My experience too in raiding, groups and pqs. Coverage is extremely unpredictable in how fast it will bring up the ca's that can use it. Hawk has been fine. Increase to sniper shot has been fine. Its a shame FC was nerfed so badly, my ranger playstyle would make it extremely useful.Would still like to have the flurry equivalent that assassins have from their epic weapon buff. Would still like to have better hate management (which is worse again now).Would still like to have something beneficial for all the money I spend on arrows. 78g per stack on AB for the last 3 weeks. I go through them like water and the woodworkers are having a field day with the prices. Why are we the only ones that *must pay for dps? We get nothing for them, we cannot make them any more, we do not get a boost to dps to compensate for the expense. We cannot maintain distance with so many of our high parsing dps as melee skills. Still the more expensive, less utility, lower parsing not as flexible assassin step brothers.

Striikor

03-24-2011, 12:52 PM

Regarding hate management, I find that between Cat-Like, Ignorant Bliss, Evasive Manuvuers and regular use of Hawk it is rare that I can't manage aggro (unless the tank dies). Aggro is the last thing I am worried about right now.The hit boxes are HUGE in KD they are crazy but in the raid zones they are terrible. Swashies (it hosed thier extension) and Rangers (for whom it is NO benefit in raiding as it does not match up our Melee CA's and primary weapon) were really left out on the benefits of the melee range changes. It is nice that the mobs try (often failing) to stop at the edge of melee allowing our bow to continue to fire. But it is of no benefit on raid mobs, unlike the rest of melee.Also many times it seems that that 3 meter band, I have to find puts me out of cure/heal range .... now how the hell does that work? The hit box is so [Removed for Content] big that with a healer on one side and me on the other puts me there, out of range of heals and cures. If the healer is left of the mob and I am on the right .... OUT of Range.I do not mind positioning challenges but I am getting real tired of trying to get the sweet spot on the mob AND on the healer. It is particularly problematic trying to deal with spawned adds.

Lethe5683

03-24-2011, 03:28 PM

Are all stats shared with pets? For example if I were to spec for the AoE autoattack would my pet then have that as well? Or does it only count stats that are not from buffs?

BetaTester

03-25-2011, 11:35 PM

dusted my fabled/mastered 70 zerker off for the chronoportalspoor guy , mentored from 70 to 30 , and he couldn't solo EL when even my 39 ranger and 39 monk cansoe sexually assualted zerkers hard

Lethe5683

03-26-2011, 04:23 AM

<cite>BetaTester wrote:</cite><blockquote>dusted my fabled/mastered 70 zerker off for the chronoportalspoor guy , mentored from 70 to 30 , and he couldn't solo EL when even my 39 ranger and 39 monk cansoe sexually assualted zerkers hard</blockquote>It must be your gear or AAs or something... my level 70 swashy with mostly adepts and level 62 MC gear can solo the EL zone without even trying.

Jasuo

03-26-2011, 08:45 AM

Something really needs to be done about dumbfires and swarm pets. All these uninterruptable and stacking/overlapping AE's are keeping them from being used (communion and undead horde). Please think about a proper way to make them work with game mechanics.I won't speak for conjurors, but undead horde at least needs a complete remake, there is no feasible way of maxing it out in game on majoirty of the encounters in game whereas every other special spell in game has no issues. Maybe make it a large pbae dot like grave sacrament or a single target dot with hail storm termination that will take full use of accelerated decay and spurt.

Gimmiethat

03-28-2011, 07:46 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Troubador:Rejuvenating Celebration and Countersong will be seeing some boosts.</blockquote>How about some boosting to the boosts these spells got... post-boost neither off'em are hotbar worthy yet.

thegriss

03-29-2011, 10:09 AM

<cite>Sciomar@Unrest_old wrote:</cite><blockquote>Something really needs to be done about dumbfires and swarm pets. All these uninterruptable and stacking/overlapping AE's are keeping them from being used (communion and undead horde). Please think about a proper way to make them work with game mechanics.I won't speak for conjurors, but undead horde at least needs a complete remake, there is no feasible way of maxing it out in game on majoirty of the encounters in game whereas every other special spell in game has no issues. Maybe make it a large pbae dot like grave sacrament or a single target dot with hail storm termination that will take full use of accelerated decay and spurt.</blockquote>My atleast your pets are working. My coercer puppets fire off and 90% of the time they just stand there and do nothing intil they poof.

Gimmiethat

04-19-2011, 11:50 AM

Since Velious is a 2-part expansion pact.... part-2 coming in GU60. Will there be anymore as far as class adjustments?My main is a troub and I can tell ya for sure, the adjustments made in part-1 didn't make much of a difference.

Wasuna

04-19-2011, 02:38 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since Velious is a 2-part expansion pact.... part-2 coming in GU60. Will there be anymore as far as class adjustments?My main is a troub and I can tell ya for sure, the adjustments made in part-1 didn't make much of a difference.</blockquote>Hey you.. don't bring up Troubadors! If you do the moderators will move this thread to the Troubador forum to kill it!

Brildean

04-20-2011, 06:20 PM

Any word on balancing strikethrough immunities.

Leovinus

04-20-2011, 07:04 PM

<cite>Gimmiethat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since Velious is a 2-part expansion pact.... part-2 coming in GU60. Will there be anymore as far as class adjustments?My main is a troub and I can tell ya for sure, the adjustments made in part-1 didn't make much of a difference.</blockquote>Not exactly. We're getting more stuff attached to the overland we have, we're not getting the rest of Velious, yet. In fact, I'm not even convinced we're getting part 2 with DoV, despite how people interpreted that quote by SJ a while back.

Aelfan

04-22-2011, 08:29 PM

I hate to bring things back to the original post, but the free flying mount on my new toon only now just stopped working. It's horrible. I know a lot of my time was being wasted before, but now I can't avoid it again, it is really painful. I'm not sure I can carry on playing the game, even with the toons which have flying mounts, because i want to play THIS toon right now. And if you are one of those self-absorbed darlings that say "So go, and good riddance," it might be nice if you finally realised, this is not YOUR game. It's Sony's. They need to make money out of it, and when they do things that drive away players, you will lose in the long run.I don't want a free level 90 toon, I really want to enjoy the content from level one, but there is just so much crap in this game that some devs have mistaken for content, because it absorbs your time while you play. Time sinks are not content. God, but i wish the devs would realise that. The flying mounts got rid of a lot of the time sinks that really irritated me, now because I have experienced the game without them, I can't go back.

Kunaak

04-26-2011, 03:42 AM

please - for the love of god - just go away.you not wanting to do something that every single one of us had to do - is simply lazy. if your not willing to play your toon - and threaten to quit unless you get some sort of special treatment, to me, that said everything I ever want to know about you.your lazy, and have no intention of playing your toon, unless the game bends over backwards to accomodate you.I would rather lose 10,000 people like you, then watch this game go in that direction.so just quite. please.theres other MMOs out there for.pick one.and go.

Gimmiethat

04-27-2011, 12:57 AM

<cite>Aelfan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hate to bring things back to the original post, but the free flying mount on my new toon only now just stopped working. It's horrible. I know a lot of my time was being wasted before, but now I can't avoid it again, it is really painful. I'm not sure I can carry on playing the game, even with the toons which have flying mounts, because i want to play THIS toon right now. And if you are one of those self-absorbed darlings that say "So go, and good riddance," it might be nice if you finally realised, this is not YOUR game. It's Sony's. They need to make money out of it, and when they do things that drive away players, you will lose in the long run.I don't want a free level 90 toon, I really want to enjoy the content from level one, but there is just so much crap in this game that some devs have mistaken for content, because it absorbs your time while you play. Time sinks are not content. God, but i wish the devs would realise that. The flying mounts got rid of a lot of the time sinks that really irritated me, now because I have experienced the game without them, I can't go back.</blockquote>Please, bring things back to the original post.... that mentioned NOTHING about the lvl 90 mounts. This thread is about class adjustments -- NOT MOUNTS!So X... any more adjustments planned for GU60?

Gimmiethat

04-30-2011, 10:49 AM

I guess the answer is yes -- there will be more adjustments made in GU60... but nothing to help troubs. Too bad. Message edited by Amnerys on 04/28/2011 18:53:11ABILITIES / ALTERNATE ADVANCEMENTAssassin<ul><li>Excessive Bleeding now reduces health by 2% per bleeding ability regardless of the target's strength.</li></ul>Berserkers<ul><li>Lost Adrenaline no longer prevents Berserk and no longer cause interrupts. </li><li>Adrenal Flow can now be modified by potency. </li><li>Rampaging Blow now has a higher chance to hit, cannot be parried, dodged, blocked or riposted. </li><li>Bloodlust now also increases agility. </li><li>Destructive Rage now grants Multi-Attack Chance instead of DPS. The value has been slightly reduced. </li><li>Open Wounds now also triggers additional damage to targets within 5 meters of the berserker every few seconds.</li></ul>Brawlers<ul><li>Tag Team should be more reliable with the hate swap. </li><li>Mantis Star no longer reduces stamina and now reduces max health by 0.3% at rank one to 3.3% at rank 10.</li></ul>Brigand<ul><li>Will to Survive now reduces health by 3% regardless of the target's strength. </li><li>Debilitating Strikes no longer reduces stamina and now reduces max health by 0.5% at rank 1 and 2.5% at rank 5.</li></ul>Cleric<ul><li>Ally Revivication now affects Immaculate Revival.</li></ul>Coercer<ul><li>Enhance: Medusa Gaze now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Medusa Gaze per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Ego Shock now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Ego Shock per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Shockwave now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Shock Wave per rank.</li></ul>Crusader<ul><li>Soulclaim now persists through death.</li></ul>Conjuror<ul><li>Enhance: Heal Servant now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Heal Servant per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Crystal Blast now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Crystal Blast per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Ice Storm now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Ice Storm per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Earthquake now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Earthquake per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Shattered Earth now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Shattered Earth per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Petrify now also grants 3% Crit Bonus to Petrify per rank.</li></ul>Defiler<ul><li>Curseweaving now increases durations by 10%. </li><li>Enhance: Emergency Warding now also grants 5% Crit Bonus to Eidolic Ward and Purulence per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Ancestral Avenger now also grants 5% Crit Bonus to Ancestral Avenger per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Defile now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Defiler per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Terror Chant now grants a hate position reduction at rank 5. </li><li>Abomination no longer reduces stamina and now reduces max health by 0.5% at Apprentice and 1% at Master. With Spirituality, the maximum health reduction is 1.2%.</li></ul>Dirge<ul><li>Cacophony of Blades no longer interrupts.</li></ul>Enchanter<ul><li>Enchanted Vigor no longer has a persistent power cost for the Enchanter. </li><li>Blink now teleports the caster once again.</li></ul>Fury<ul><li>Maddening Swarm now casts faster. </li><li>Enhance: Death Swarm now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Death Swarm per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Tempest now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Tempest per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Starnova now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Starnova per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Call of Storms now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Call of Storms per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Feral Tenacity now also grants 5% Crit Bonus to Feral Tenacity per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Brambles now grants a hate position reduction at rank 5.</li></ul>Guardian<ul><li>Spellscrolls named Shout IIians Call is now correctly Call to Arms.</li></ul>Illusionist<ul><li>Focus: Destructive Rampage now increases the damage amount granted to 12.5%, rather than improving duration. </li><li>Enhance: Prismatic Chaos now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Prismatic Shock per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Ultraviolet Beam now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Ultraviolet Beam per rank.</li></ul>Inquisitor<ul><li>Enhance: Emergency Reactives now also grants 5% Crit Bonus to Radiance and Evidence of Faith per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Redemption now also grants 5% Crit Bonus to Redemption per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Disorientation now grants a hate position reduction at rank 5.</li></ul> Mystic<ul><li>Deteriorate reduces Agility instead of Stamina. </li><li>Deterioration now modifies the Agility and Strength reductions of Deteriorate. </li><li>Echoes of the Ancients no longer reduces stamina and now reduces max health of the target encounter by 1.3% at Apprentice and 2.4% at Master. With Spirituality and Ancient Demise, Echoes of the Ancients reduces max health by 3.7%. </li><li>Ancient Demise now modifies the maximum health reduction of Echoes of the Ancients.</li></ul> Necromancer<ul><li>Lifeburn no longer has an immunity timer. </li><li>Enhance: Pandemic now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Pandemic per rank. </li><li>Mortality Mark no longer reduces stamina and now reduces max health by 0.9% at Apprentice and 1.6% at Master. </li><li>Enhance: Mortality Mark now modifies the health reduction instead of the stamina reduction. At rank 5 and Master, Mortality Mark reduces the target's max health by 2.2%.</li></ul> Priests<ul><li>Casting Expertise now also grants Spell Multi-Attack.</li></ul> Rogue<ul><li>Change of Engagement now reduces health by 4% regardless of the target's strength.</li></ul>Shadowknight<ul><li>Blasphemy now interrupts the target encounter. </li><li>Enhance: Siphon Strength will no longer reduce stamina and now reduces max health by 0.3% at rank 1 and 1.3% at rank 5.</li></ul>Shaman<ul><li>Spiritfire now persists through death. </li><li>Spirituality now improves the effects of max health impairments by 3% per rank.</li></ul> Sorcerer<ul><li>Mystical Overflow now persists through death.</li></ul> Summoner<ul><li>Pets have new spell visuals.</li></ul> Swashbuckler<ul><li>Swashbuckler "Reach" should once again increase melee range.</li></ul> Templar<ul><li>Enhance: Divine Smite now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Divine Smite per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Divine Strike now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Divine Strike per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Warring Deities now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Warring Deities per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Blaze of Faith now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Blaze of Faith per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Smite Corruption now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Smite Corruption per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Harmony now grants a hate position reduction at rank 5.</li></ul> Warden<ul><li>Willow Wisp now interrupts targets surrounding the Warden. </li><li>Enhance: Death Interventions now also grants 2.5% Crit Bonus to Nature's Renewal and Tunare's Watch per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Willow Wisp now grants a hate position reduction at rank 5.</li></ul> Warlock<ul><li>Focused Casting now grants Spell Double Attack instead of Casting and Recovery Speeds. The reuse has been increased to 5 minutes. </li><li>Enhance: Acid now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Acid per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Encase now also grants 3% Crit Bonus to Encase per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Distortion now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Distortion per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Dark Pyre now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Dark Pyre per rank.</li></ul> Warrior<ul><li>Death's Door now displays as detrimental. </li><li>Time Warp no longer affects Acceleration Strike. </li><li>Executioner's Fury should activate more reliably when the warrior is below 50% health.</li></ul>Wizard<ul><li>Manaburn no longer has an immunity timer. </li><li>Mana burn will now give an error message and not cast when attempting to cast it on an NPC who is immune to mana burn. </li><li>Enhance: Ball of Fire now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Ball of Fire per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Solar Flar now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Solar Flare per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Magma Chamber now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Magma Chamber per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Immolation now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Immolation per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Ice Comet now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Ice Comet per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Glacial Wind now also grants 1% Crit Bonus to Glacial Wind per rank. </li><li>Enhance: Cease now also grants 5% Crit Bonus to Cease per rank.</li></ul>

Brienae

05-01-2011, 02:09 PM

Maybe it was an oversight that forgt us troubadors? Although I have noticed that people seem to forget I exist when my husband and I go into groups everyone remembers the monk. However looking at the gu notes are we seriously the only class not getting anything at all in the update?

Mermut

05-15-2011, 01:37 AM

Wow.. nothing for troubies and the warden changes? Minor change to the deagg and a boost to the totally useless death interventions? Sad day for my two primary toons <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Muusic

05-15-2011, 12:49 PM

Troubs?? What about Troubs!! C'mon I wan't an OP myth buff also so I can pretend not to be a support class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Daddumnec

05-24-2011, 02:53 PM

So Defilers getting boost and Mystics getting nerf?

thegriss

05-26-2011, 09:18 AM

<table cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td align="left" valign="top"> </td><td height="28" valign="top"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="100%"><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/styles/EQ2/eq2_default/images/common/icon_minipost.gif" border="0" width="12" height="9" /> 04/30/2011 06:49:19 Subject: Re:What we've been working on: Velious Class Adjustments </td></tr><tr><td colspan="2"><hr /></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2"><ul></ul></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>bad post

Chucky99

05-26-2011, 11:41 AM

<cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Carpediem@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>For Coverage, can you leave the positional requirement up, maybe give the next attack a cast speed bonus, and just ditch the stealth portion of it, so it works for any attack? Focus Aim needs something fresh too, Strikethrough and Flurry chance maybe?I know it's been brought up a ton already but lowering recasts on many of the ranger CA's really would help too.Also, where are you guys at on the plans to make rangers more ranged? Kinda sucks that we're stuck using the miragul charm forever.</blockquote>+1 to this. Especially interested in if any more work is going to be done to make rangers significantly 'more ranged'</blockquote>I agree with both of you. But Rangers should be more ranged oriented I believe.

Econometr

05-29-2011, 03:58 PM

Shock wave's 45s recast is ridiculous given that Chromatic Shower can now be used every 20s. Please consider lowering its base recast, changing the recast reduction provided by Enhance: Shock Wave, or beefing up its damage considerably.

Carthington

05-30-2011, 06:48 PM

Why are conjurors getting even MORE bonus added to 6 spells and necros only get bonus to 1 spell.. and mind you, that 1 spell is already capped on casting speed, is an encounter spell, and can't add any more ticks to it because the dot cap has already been reached....and so you add crit bonus that makes up for all of that?Why are conjurors getting the best of the best of everything and necros are getting nearly nothing? Might as well just leave us off the list for the updates we're getting.Look at the updates... Lifeburn no longer has an immunity timer. oh wow, lets recruit more necros now just for lifeburn...Enhance: Pandemic now also grants 2% Crit Bonus to Pandemic per rank. See above rant...Mortality Mark no longer reduces stamina and now reduces max health by 0.9% at Apprentice and 1.6% at Master. Gee, what a total unhelpful update....Enhance: Mortality Mark now modifies the health reduction instead of the stamina reduction. At rank 5 and Master, Mortality Mark reduces the target's max health by 2.2%. Enhance a useless update...seriously?I'd like to hear this straight from a dev.

Lethe5683

05-31-2011, 03:55 AM

Nothing for troubs? The disparity between dirges and troubs in terms of DPS is absolutly unacceptable and I am suprised that after all this time there has still been nothing done to fix this at all.

theBlackDragon

05-31-2011, 01:48 PM

So when are Wardens and battle clerics in general getting fixed? If anythigng GU60 only increases the disparity between Wardens and Furies, makes one wonder if SOE even understands the roles the different classes are supposed to fill (the most likely answer is "no they have no clue").

CelandineStar

05-31-2011, 07:25 PM

Dirge<ul><li>Cacophony of Blades no longer interrupts.</li></ul><div>What is this?? WHY??? Every other class got increases to their buffs... Dirges got nerfed and Troubs got nothing. ><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /> I am suddenly looking forward to this year's Fanfaire panels. ><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></div><div></div><div>edit: AND cheap shot no longer affects heroic mobs? For real? A spell we have had since the game came out is suddenly too powerful? Really??</div><div></div><div>/angry rat face</div>

Lethe5683

05-31-2011, 09:37 PM

<cite>CelandineStar wrote:</cite><blockquote><div></div><div>edit: AND cheap shot no longer affects heroic mobs? For real? A spell we have had since the game came out is suddenly too powerful? Really??</div><div></div><div>/angry rat face</div></blockquote>What? That's absurd.

Odys

06-07-2011, 09:05 PM

<cite>theBlackDragon wrote:</cite><blockquote>So when are Wardens and battle clerics in general getting fixed? If anythigng GU60 only increases the disparity between Wardens and Furies, makes one wonder if SOE even understands the roles the different classes are supposed to fill (the most likely answer is "no they have no clue").</blockquote>Yes amazing incompetency, but people in my raid still prefer me to stay as a warden (i m fully mastered and some of my gear is warden only).I just looked at the signature adornement, warden get improved thorn that probably does nothing but fury get an amazing boost to their most proactive heal : hibernate.I m 100% sure that someone plays a fury in SOE team but nobody plays a warden.

RogueSpideyChick

06-08-2011, 06:10 AM

<cite>Gorock@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>theBlackDragon wrote:</cite><blockquote>So when are Wardens and battle clerics in general getting fixed? If anythigng GU60 only increases the disparity between Wardens and Furies, makes one wonder if SOE even understands the roles the different classes are supposed to fill (the most likely answer is "no they have no clue").</blockquote>Yes amazing incompetency, but people in my raid still prefer me to stay as a warden (i m fully mastered and some of my gear is warden only).I just looked at the signature adornement, warden get improved thorn that probably does nothing but fury get an amazing boost to their most proactive heal : hibernate.I m 100% sure that someone plays a fury in SOE team but nobody plays a warden.</blockquote>actually the hibernate adorn is garbage. it was the focus on our shoulders in beta & several furies /feedback'ed it because we did NOT want it for an adorn because it's terrible. if u have the normal reuse that u get on gear or through aa's, along with the early trigger, u should never need this adorn, it just makes it more of a pita

Shotneedle

06-08-2011, 02:24 PM

They aren't buffing Wardens because Wardens are fine. Their (ST) dps is on par with Furies, and you're going to need one in the MT group for the new hardmode raid zones because the mobs have 330+ crit bonus.The only broken class right now is Troubador.

gatrm

06-08-2011, 06:27 PM

I guess it's only soloing/heroic wardens that are left out in the cold. Perhaps a raiding warden with access to a decent 2h weapon is on par with fury for ST dps. Non-Raiding wardens get nothing for dps and may as well stick to healing only. With the need to go 1h/shield because of the increased need for crit my warden has LOST DPS from SF. Forget about gained at a lesser rate...I was hitting 15k in SF and am now stuck at around 10k. The loss of a significant amount of dps mod, haste, multiattack, and a 2h weapon makes a huge negative impact on dps potential (if I use all DoV gear). If I had access to a decent 2h hammer, then yeah, I might be able to make do without itemization.

theBlackDragon

06-08-2011, 07:33 PM

<cite>Buffrat@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>They aren't buffing Wardens because Wardens are fine. Their (ST) dps is on par with Furies, and you're going to need one in the MT group for the new hardmode raid zones because the mobs have 330+ crit bonus.The only broken class right now is Troubador.</blockquote>Yes, because all raiding guilds do hardmodes... And it's not dps or healing we're lacking it's utility, bigtime compared to other healers, all of them (there's a nice comparison on eq2flames somewhere)

ZUES

06-08-2011, 08:01 PM

Tanks meed more hate to accomodate scout uberness!! Dont nerf the scouts, increase tankability in velious!!Please add some resists to PQ gear.Thank you.

Talathion

06-09-2011, 09:21 PM

give berserkers more strikethrough please...

Odys

06-16-2011, 09:49 AM

<cite>theBlackDragon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Buffrat@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>They aren't buffing Wardens because Wardens are fine. Their (ST) dps is on par with Furies, and you're going to need one in the MT group for the new hardmode raid zones because the mobs have 330+ crit bonus.The only broken class right now is Troubador.</blockquote>Yes, because all raiding guilds do hardmodes... And it's not dps or healing we're lacking it's utility, bigtime compared to other healers, all of them (there's a nice comparison on eq2flames somewhere)</blockquote>I saw some of those inflated warden parses, grooup make up being Inqui/Coercer/Troubi ... putting the warden with 100% auto attack mode, prob around 150 haste and so on.I m only interested in non buffed dps, the one you may get against a target dummie, and well specced furie would them own us easilly (and it's ok).What is not ok is that our Auto attack which was one of main dps source does not scale. Potency does not affects auto attack, so the dev added ton of MA to melee classes (scout, fighters) but they ignored (battle)p riests.Mystic and Inqui do not suffer as much as we do since they do have DOV dps AAS, we don't . Wrath of nature is certainly not a big dps boost, even if it's not ridiculous.I checked again the availabilty of priest 2 hander : None drop in instances (i saw ton for fighter/scout), none can be crafted with those instance mineral, none can be quested doing heroic content.