The general feeling about healers in BG

[Verrie77]

<p>Do you generaly feel that healers are doing their job, or not?Ive got a healer and a few dps classes. Is it just me that think this way or are the healers that really heals and works their butt of to actually try and keep their mates up really rare nowdays?..or have I been really unlucky ?</p>

[Moonbaby]

<p>In T4 BGs you get good healers and bad healers, good DPS and bad DPS, good tanks and bad tanks... I haven't noticed a pattern of bad players only rolling healers. The only consistent pattern I see is lots of SKs and lots of rangers.</p>

[Orthureon]

<p><cite>Verrie77 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do you generaly feel that healers are doing their job, or not?Ive got a healer and a few dps classes. Is it just me that think this way or are the healers that really heals and works their butt of to actually try and keep their mates up really rare nowdays?..or have I been really unlucky ?</p></blockquote><p>I play on both sides of the spectrum and stepping back into a healers shoes (I used to have an 80 Inquis back in the day)  is not a very welcome change to be honest. On my SK I make it my goal to lock down the opposing group and keep DPS off of my healer(s). I will use whatever I have, be it taunts, KBs, or my intervene/blessing macro. However, playing on my 35 Fury opened my eyes to how terrible most tanks really are. They run away from the healer, they do not taunt, they do not run to your aid to KB opposing members and so forth. If the team has the DPS or the CC a healer will die without a tank or atleast a semi-decent one. In my experience a successful BG team only needs a good tank and healer.</p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><cite>Orthureon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Verrie77 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do you generaly feel that healers are doing their job, or not?Ive got a healer and a few dps classes. Is it just me that think this way or are the healers that really heals and works their butt of to actually try and keep their mates up really rare nowdays?..or have I been really unlucky ?</p></blockquote><p>I play on both sides of the spectrum and stepping back into a healers shoes (I used to have an 80 Inquis back in the day)  is not a very welcome change to be honest. On my SK I make it my goal to lock down the opposing group and keep DPS off of my healer(s). I will use whatever I have, be it taunts, KBs, or my intervene/blessing macro. <span style="color: #ff00ff;"><strong>However, playing on my 35 Fury opened my eyes to how terrible most tanks really are. They run away from the healer, they do not taunt, they do not run to your aid to KB opposing members and so forth.</strong> </span>If the team has the DPS or the CC a healer will die without a tank or atleast a semi-decent one. In my experience a successful BG team only needs a good tank and healer.</p></blockquote><p>I agree on my 39/160 fury I need a tank who's attention is on being my protection. </p><p>All those SK's floating around tend to <em>dilute the real tank players</em> that might be paired in with my fury when I play it, thus negatively affecting my BG experience. </p><p>All the "no longer BG strong solo" class whine post 58 can at it's core be placed that people just don't do their jobs in a PUG group and certain classes are vunerable to other team members being insensitive to their roles. </p><p>To echo another previous poster in this thread there are so many SK's and scouts since they're the <em>least dependent on other classes</em> in their group to <em>actually function alone</em> post 58.  Everyone's solo-viability got nerfed hard in MC except tanks and scouts.</p><p>The cure of course is to play a cleric if you must play a healer where you can have a little bit longer to stumble around being beat on while your would be tank figures out<em> their</em> success is dependent on <em>your </em>success.  Out of the healers, the clerics are the most "able" alone.</p>

[Ralpmet]

<p>Even post gu 58 my 39 fury healed better than my 89 inq comparatively (% based, ((<span style="color: #00ff00;">(total healing done)-(healing received)</span>/(<span style="color: #ffff00;">heals given-heals recieved</span>)) / deaths)), so if you're going to be a lowby healer furies (with stacked +abil mod/crit chance) or wardens (in the same style of gear). Post levels 80 the clerics take the cake in not needing a tank and outhealing entire groups.</p><p>edit: Wow, took a lot of tries to post what formula i set my basis off of.</p>

[BMonkeeus]

No One Cares=NOC

[Brynhild]

<p>Maybe... If SOE made it so scouts, tanks, and sorc don't outheal healers in pvp, that people would appreciate healers more and protect/stay near them.  Being able to heal 600HPS or more as a scout in pvp is just ridiculous.  Take away all healing procs for scouts or make self inflicted healing reduced to 25% of what it is in PVE for non priest classes, with possibility exception of necros.</p><p> Why did you totally destroy the ability for paladins to heal , yet allow scouts to heal tremendous amounts ?</p>

[Jaremai]

<p>When I'm playing a non-healer I generally play like I don't have a healer, because I'll turn around and they'll be off doing their own thing most of the time.  Sometimes I'll get one that actually hangs near me and heals, and I love them to death because I can do what I can to ensure their survival, thus ensuring my own.</p><p>When I am playing my healer, I glue myself to the tank in the group and hope to hell he/she knows what they are doing.  Sometimes this means running off to do something irrelevant to the goal, sometimes it means being in an orgy of combat.  Either way, I do my job of keeping the tank upright.  Hopefully the rest of the group is near me too so I can keep them upright as well.</p>

[JoarAddam]

<p>i think that the general feeling is that more are needed.  All this whining about premades being big meanies is actually whining about lack of healing in the /random groups.  Everyone wants to be DPS or Tank, depending on which BG they prefer to run, so you only occasionally get a healer in the group, and it's not usually a "locked for the tier, high aa" healer, it's someone there to try out BGs for fun.</p>

[Avirodar]

<p><cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i think that the general feeling is that more are needed.  All this whining about premades being big meanies is actually whining about lack of healing in the /random groups.  Everyone wants to be DPS or Tank, depending on which BG they prefer to run, so you only occasionally get a healer in the group, and it's not usually a "locked for the tier, high aa" healer, it's someone there to try out BGs for fun.</p></blockquote><p>I do not know about the little leagues, but at 90, most people who roll in majority premades (4+ in gears, 6+ in ganak) are much better equipped, and can do much more DPS than the average PUG player. A PUG healer is going to have zero chance of standing up against this, especially because most PUG tanks have no idea how to effectively taunt, or if they do taunt they just melt against superior DPS that a PUG team can not match. Once a death or 2 occurs, it is usually a domino effect, and most PUG teams have 1-2 super squishy participants.The cure nerf was a change that screamed clueless, on part of SOE. I'd love to see the PVP dev try lasting a day in lvl 90 BGs, joining the queue solo as a priest, and see first hand what he actually done to healers.  But, I suspect that the last thing the PVP dev will ever queue solo in lvl90 BGs, is a healer.</p>

[JoarAddam]

<p><cite>Avirodar@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>i think that the general feeling is that more are needed.  All this whining about premades being big meanies is actually whining about lack of healing in the /random groups.  Everyone wants to be DPS or Tank, depending on which BG they prefer to run, so you only occasionally get a healer in the group, and it's not usually a "locked for the tier, high aa" healer, it's someone there to try out BGs for fun.</p></blockquote><p>I do not know about the little leagues, but at 90, most people who roll in majority premades (4+ in gears, 6+ in ganak) are much better equipped, and can do much more DPS than the average PUG player. A PUG healer is going to have zero chance of standing up against this, especially because most PUG tanks have no idea how to effectively taunt, or if they do taunt they just melt against superior DPS that a PUG team can not match. Once a death or 2 occurs, it is usually a domino effect, and most PUG teams have 1-2 super squishy participants.The cure nerf was a change that screamed clueless, on part of SOE. I'd love to see the PVP dev try lasting a day in lvl 90 BGs, joining the queue solo as a priest, and see first hand what he actually done to healers.  But, I suspect that the last thing the PVP dev will ever queue solo in lvl90 BGs, is a healer.</p></blockquote><p>Everyone who just HAS to play /random is better off not queueing for Gears.  Of all of the BG's, Gears is the most complimentary to the Premade steamroll.  I understand your pain, but if we just got MORE healers in BG, i think we'd all be better off, no matter their base aa and skill.  These things can be learned, but if folk go into BGs a couple times and say "darn it, i failed, I'm never doing that again" they're never going to learn.  Does anyone think raiders hit a mob a couple times and then never come back?  NO.  You batter yourself at it again and again till you learn it, and learn better communication, and understand what you're doing.   Anyone who expected to just wander into BG's months and months after they came out  and still own anyone around him with no experience is just crazy....  or is a certain berserker from AB who's made almost every ignore list by now..</p><p>There is fun to be had in BG's if you're willing to learn them.  If you're expecting to just stroll in and button mash...  try Warhammer.</p>

[Felleyes]

<p>In a blurred, tinfoil hat, kneejerk sort of way, it does seem to be trending in the direction the OP suggests.If I happen to have a few seconds before a match, I’ll take a peek at our healer’s gear to get an idea of what to expect.In T4, nearly every single time I’ve looked lately, our PUG healer has been sporting lev 20 or under treasured gear. I think it’s safe to say that if our medic isn’t willing to flip the bill for so much as level-appropriate Handcrafted, it isn’t likely he/she is going to be fully master, experted or even working with Adept spells. Grayed-out armor and apprentice level heals don’t buy an overly long lifespan in gears. But, like the Inq from Guk I had pleasure of teaming up with several times the other night, these Olympians seem perfectly happy to lie facedown for 90 percent of the match.I’m aware of the vicious circle that some people are in, needing to BG to get tokens to buy gear. I had to earn my tokens too. But as the OP alludes to, it seems that a number of people have no intention of gearing up their lower level characters, ever. They just slap on a few gold worth of gear, queue up and then blow their teams chances of earning 3 tokens, so they can earn 1 easy token for their main.Maybe that problem is universal and just more pronounced when it’s a healer. Then again, maybe healers are the class of choice for these guys because, with a healer, you can stay alive for a smidgen longer with no gear, AA, or ambition by strictly self-healing, and it'll still look like you did a little something on the post-game parse.Some non-competitive types have been calling for a separate queue for pre-made only groups. I’d rather see a separate queue for people who don’t meet the minimum requirements to be considered a viable player within their designated tier.  That way, the people who don’t feel the need to put forth any effort and who can’t be bother to make even a token contribution towards their team’s victory can go play with themselves (intention double entendre) in the JO bracket.Maybe award half of a token to the winning team, so the one guy who bothered to turn on auto-attack will have something to show for it.</p>

[JoarAddam]

<p>I would SO just carry around a set of poop gear so I can go into the JO BG, swap, and butcher.</p>

[StaticLex]

<p><cite>Verrie77 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Do you generaly feel that healers are doing their job, or not?Ive got a healer and a few dps classes. Is it just me that think this way or are the healers that really heals and works their butt of to actually try and keep their mates up really rare nowdays?..or have I been really unlucky ?</p></blockquote><p>If I play my healer in them anymore I just run around and try to kill people.  I don't know if that's what other healers are doing or what, but you can thank the cure nerf for it IMO.</p>

[Elf_Queen]

<p>I just leveled up my inquis to play in t4 and I gotta say it was a bit of a shock switching from a warlock, but I was so frustrated never having a healer in my groups that I thought hey why not just play one myself?</p><p>with healers you have to first have to find your group (most of the time they are scattered around in ganak and smugglers) or at least your tank and hope he knows what he's doing, all too often I get one that just runs around aimlessly looking for 1vs1 and not the objective. My main goal is the objective of the match so if my team just wants to try their pvp prowess and not care about the relics and flags it kinda sucks. Also when you get a tank that doesnt taunt and you keep getting people rolling in on you unchecked, well im going to be looking out for my own survivability first. I try my hardest to keep my team alive but they better try their hardest to win the match too and not just up their kill or parse.. if they let the relic run away constantlly in klak without trying to get it back but just AOEing in the middle well i will try to get it back myself, and they will be without me healing them..</p>

[ZandaStrooth]

<p>The real problem with pvp healing in EQ2 is that there are no "select next friendly target", "select nearest friendly target" commands.</p><p>I can tab pve targets, I made a hotkey for tabbing pvp targets with Q, works great.</p><p>But when someone not grouped with me is dieing in front of me I have to click them first. In a big crowd thats hard since you often click the wrong target and then the guy who needed healing is dead already.</p><p>So healing your groupmembers is np, if they are close. Healing someone outside your group is a pain.</p><p>And in a bg like smugglers, the tank guy in front of you, with 5 enemy scouts around him making it almost impossible to click him, is 75% of the time not in your group</p>

[Orthureon]

<p><cite>Zandru@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The real problem with pvp healing in EQ2 is that there are no "select next friendly target", "select nearest friendly target" commands.</p><p>I can tab pve targets, I made a hotkey for tabbing pvp targets with Q, works great.</p><p>But when someone not grouped with me is dieing in front of me I have to click them first. In a big crowd thats hard since you often click the wrong target and then the guy who needed healing is dead already.</p><p>So healing your groupmembers is np, if they are close. Healing someone outside your group is a pain.</p><p>And in a bg like smugglers, the tank guy in front of you, with 5 enemy scouts around him making it almost impossible to click him, is 75% of the time not in your group</p></blockquote><p>You can also target that person in your raid through the actual raid window you know. But in most situations by the time you find his name it will be too late.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p>Stopped playing my Mystic because of taunt locks.  Only heals I can cast are group wards and trancendence.  My group cure is now worthless even though it is mastered it cures nothing.</p><p>Pretty bad having to make macros to single target ward my tank so I keep it on myself since I am usually the #1 target anyway.</p>