Procs in maintained window?

[Motzi]

<ul><li>Most single target effects that proc off of beneficial spells should no longer clutter up the maintained spells window.</li></ul><p>Can we get more clarification on this?</p><p>I'm concerned as I rely on that data to determin how many heal wards are active and on what targets to determine when I need to spam more and when I do not.</p>

[Kizee]

<p>That worried me too because I do the same thing.</p><p>I wish they would just let us filter out procs we don't want to see in that window...that in itself would make it soooo much better.</p>

[Motzi]

<p>I have repeatedly asked for what is available in the UI to be changed to allow filtering. </p><p>I agree, it would be pure win.</p><p>So would the group window having small icons under each name showing what non-permanent buffs *I* have applied to that player.  Amiright?</p>

[DuneWarrior]

<p>Same, dont touch my data its effed up enough as it is</p>

[kdmorse]

<p>Same thought here - please don't take that usefull information away.</p><p>-Ken</p>

[LardLord]

<p>Depending on what procs you have, the maintained window can be completely useless on Live, so this is a great change, in my opinion.  From Test, I can confirm that Ancient Invigoration, Shielding Prescence, and Empty Soul are no longer showing in maintained.  I hope Core of the Underfoot isn't either, but I don't have that proc on Test.  As the patch notes indicate, procs like Sacred Territory and Rune Meld are still showing.  Self buff procs like Split-Second Redemption and Flawless Aura of Protection are also still showing in maintained.  Personally, the only procs I want to see are the stoneskin procs (Split-Second Redemption) and self-immunity procs (some of which don't show in maintained currently), but this is a <strong>huge</strong> improvement.</p><p>To the people who are currently using the proc info: unfortunately, if the status quo remained on Live, new gear upgrades/swaps would spam your maintained window to the point that you could not reliably see which procs are up (much less your normal class spells like basic debuffs).</p><p><strong>EDIT:</strong> Immaterial Barrier is also no longer showing in maintained on Test.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>yea, i tend to agree.  </p><p> there really is no reason to remove that information from that window.       it's there for people who want to see it and for those who don't, just close the window.</p>

[Motzi]

<p>I'm not saying the change isn't a good thing, but I would like a list of what is being filtered out exactly rather than the cryptic notes in the patch message.</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>there really is no reason to remove that information from that window.  </p></blockquote><p>There is a reason, since there's a cap on the number of spells that can show in maintained (32? definitely no more than 40).  If you have all these procs showing, many of which are completely unimportant to the player (see: Shielding Presence), the normal class spells like wards/reactives/regens/debuffs/dots/immunities/ect. will be over that limit and invisible to the player.</p>

[Sydares]

<p>Thank you for this. Unsarcastically.</p>

[DuneWarrior]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>there really is no reason to remove that information from that window.  </p></blockquote><p>There is a reason, since there's a cap on the number of spells that can show in maintained (32? definitely no more than 40).  If you have all these procs showing, many of which are completely unimportant to the player (see: Shielding Presence), the normal class spells like wards/reactives/regens/debuffs/dots/immunities/ect. will be over that limit and invisible to the player.</p></blockquote><p>While i tend to agree in your logic, the fact that they decide what is important is the issue, if they want to clean it up, give us tools to filter the output, give us more windows to filter what we wanna see.. instead of using assumptions upon which to build changes of what they think we want..</p>

[snowli]

<p>Give us tools to filter the info.</p><p>Actually I want most of my group buffs and self only buffs removed from maintained (can see those at a glance from my buffs bar) my single target to others buffs to remain, some procs to be gone like shielding prescence which never changes what I do, other procs to be moved up there like immunities, next heal bonuses etc.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>It's a great change IMO, most stuff you want to proc is on every target within your special group(HoT, Ward, Reactive) and group heal anyways.</p>

[Slowin]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Self buff procs like Split-Second Redemption and Flawless Aura of Protection are also still showing in maintained.</p></blockquote><p>First thought i had when i saw these notes was whether I'd still be able to see my stoneskin proc.  Glad to hear it was left in as that is about the only proc i care about seeing!</p>

[Sydares]

<p>Better still - consolidate buffs and help your subscribers have to rely less on specific classes in already dwindling raiding populations.</p>

[Xalmat]

<p>I do not like this change. Could we please revert it back?</p>

[Slowin]

<p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do not like this change. Could we please revert it back?</p></blockquote><p>At least explain what about it you don't like.  As a healer there are very few buffs (basically my ST and Group Ward and my stoneskin proc) i want to see in my maintained because everything else simply have no effect on my cast order.  What buffs are they removing that are impacting your gameplay?</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Slowin wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I do not like this change. Could we please revert it back?</p></blockquote><p>At least explain what about it you don't like.  As a healer there are very few buffs (basically my ST and Group Ward and my stoneskin proc) i want to see in my maintained because everything else simply have no effect on my cast order.  What buffs are they removing that are impacting your gameplay?</p></blockquote><p>   because some people like to know what procs are on them.      dev's should not take away information just because a few people can't open a window up a bit more.   </p><p>    seriously..    how many classes/players are really going to have more then 40 PERSONAL procs going at once?</p><p>    just make your window bigger, that's what i do.</p>

[Grumpy_Warrior_01]

<p>Is it unreasonable to consider splitting off wards, procs and temporary buffs from the Maintained window and having a third "Temporary Effects" window dedicated to them?  If an effect appears only during combat it's not really maintained, and like others in this thread I'm a lot more interested in seeing those effects than the actual maintained ones.  I may be missing something obvious since I don't play all class types, but it seems like this would resolve ths issue.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is it unreasonable to consider splitting off wards, procs and temporary buffs from the Maintained window and having a third "Temporary Effects" window dedicated to them?  If an effect appears only during combat it's not really maintained, and like others in this thread I'm a lot more interested in seeing those effects than the actual maintained ones.  I may be missing something obvious since I don't play all class types, but it seems like this would resolve ths issue.</p></blockquote><p> i would be 100% for this.  make a proffesional effects window and a generic effects window.</p>

[Karelyn]

<p>With the number of effects that proc of heals , it's not that uncommon for my single target or group target reactive to end up outside of the number that the window is capable of displaying. And then even with DragoWulf's spell timer window it isn't possible to tell whether they are still up , since the client doesn't got told about anything other than the first 30 or so buffs.</p><p>Certainly user controlled filtering would be preferable , and/or increasing the number of spells the client knows about to allow addons like the spell timer window to work , but what is being offered at the moment seems far preferable to what we currently have.</p>

[Solarax]

<p>there are a few ways you could go and make everyone happy here or a combination of all .</p><p>the best way i can think of is to make the window duplicateable and filterable like our chat windows so that you can dedicate windows to the buffs you want to see and have misc windows if you choose. by making everything filterable we can actually get more info it can also allow a small rework of the classification of buffs.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Depending on what procs you have, the maintained window can be completely useless on Live, so this is a great change, in my opinion.  From Test, I can confirm that Ancient Invigoration, Shielding Prescence, and Empty Soul are no longer showing in maintained.  I hope Core of the Underfoot isn't either, but I don't have that proc on Test.  As the patch notes indicate, procs like Sacred Territory and Rune Meld are still showing.  Self buff procs like Split-Second Redemption and Flawless Aura of Protection are also still showing in maintained.  Personally, the only procs I want to see are the stoneskin procs (Split-Second Redemption) and self-immunity procs (some of which don't show in maintained currently), but this is a <strong>huge</strong> improvement.</p><p>To the people who are currently using the proc info: unfortunately, if the status quo remained on Live, new gear upgrades/swaps would spam your maintained window to the point that you could not reliably see which procs are up (much less your normal class spells like basic debuffs).</p><p><strong>EDIT:</strong> Immaterial Barrier is also no longer showing in maintained on Test.</p></blockquote><p>Maybe I am missing something but the proc/temp buffs are the only thing I use that window for.</p><p>Whats the point of seeing all the spells there that you know are always up that you can see in the spell window and grayed out on your hotbars.?</p><p>People have been asking to filter that bar for years...why don't they listen to us for a change instead of changing something just to change it like they normally do.</p>

[Remora]

<p>Please make this optional.  I find it extremely useful to know when procs are up or down so i know when i should spam heals more to re-proc them</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p>Those who say you need to know when to spam...The answer is whenever your heals are up basically...</p><p>Honestly this was a change for shaman though IMO</p>

[LardLord]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Those who say you need to know when to spam...The answer is whenever your heals are up basically...</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much, yup. </p><p>It's not like you could see the majority of procs before this change, anyway.  Even if Ancient Invigoration was on the people you wanted it to be, you still couldn't tell if Runic Deflection, Runic Absorbtion,  Frozen Memory, Unearthly Vigor, or pretty much any other ward proc was active on those targets from looking at your maintained window. </p><p>Plus, if there was another healer in your group, they likely had Ancient Invigoration up on the targets you cared about if you didn't.</p>

[snowli]

<p>Repeat again, filter tools when possible plz.</p><p>I want to see the durations left on debuffs, certain key procs, ward sizes, torpor, bolster, oberon etc - the maintained window is already half filled with useless info like group buffs that I see from my bar, mounts (allow mounts to be turned on and off inside instances while you're at it) and totems and other junk I don't need icons for.</p><p>I'd also like to move other stuff that doesn't even originate from me, up into maintained window like gravitas, jcap, coercive healing, nature's wrath along with key procs like immunities, on next heal, etc etc.</p><p>It's ridiculously easy in raids to have both windows totally filled to overflowing and have spell timer mods unable to even access the important information.</p><p>Whatever I need, it might be totally different to the next person, so filter tools really are the best way to go.</p>

[Ulrichvon]

<p><cite>Grumpy_Warrior_01 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Is it unreasonable to consider splitting off wards, procs and temporary buffs from the Maintained window and having a third "Temporary Effects" window dedicated to them?  If an effect appears only during combat it's not really maintained, and like others in this thread I'm a lot more interested in seeing those effects than the actual maintained ones.  I may be missing something obvious since I don't play all class types, but it seems like this would resolve ths issue.</p></blockquote><p>I prefer a previous posters idea of placing procs, short term group buffs, and maintained single target buffs under each name on the group window.</p><p>Such that under each name in the group window I can see what I've proc'd on them individually.  Sure, for somethings like CoB its going to place the buff under everyone's name while its up, but its still useful information.</p><p>I would prefer seeing it this way (per group member) than some elaborate filtering mechanism on the maintained effects window.</p>

[Holyduke1234]

<p>+1</p>