So in the conj forums they claim they can out dps wizards all the time.

[jay777]

<p>Yep thats right they claim they can dps the same way to, I tried to explain that soe does not need 2 wizard classes which are suppose to be differant running around, conjurers are suppose to be consitent dps while you guys do major burst which means conjurers will out dps other classes in longer fights while wizards in short fights what am I missing here?</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=489470" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=489470</a></p><p>Here is some clarification.</p><p>I am not trolling but I am tired of this argument, it just does not make sense every class has to be differant.</p>

[Daenae]

<p>Elemental Toxicity is horribly overpowered - and it is true that I get outparsed by a conjy - but I'm not fully mastered, AAed and with all raid gear. Look at the parse thread to get an idea of real-world end game DPS parses. <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=481929">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=481929</a></p>

[jay777]

<p>That is terrible if this is true soe really needs to define the conjurers role a bit more and give them something or change the wizard which would not make sense, since they are suppose to be major single target dps anyways.</p>

[hellfire]

<p>Wow terrible title to this thread.</p><p>Conjy dps is comparable to wizard and depending on fight will out dps a wizard...no where did anyone say  "all the time".Also conj dps is comparable to wizards  or any other dps to justify a raid spot.</p><p>So you  are coming here to troll cause you dont like the answers you was given.....[Removed for Content].</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Groupwide TW really made conjuror's Elemental Blast ability overpowered because most times before they weren't getting TW but now they do and a TW'd EB can do like 30 to 40k DPS on short, single target burst fights which is really skewing high end conj numbers.</p>

[jay777]

<p>Comparable is fine but how the hek is the conjurer class doing dps like wizards? Are conjurers bringing huge numbers in one or 2 spells like wizards now? It makes no sense at all this is not the class design of a conjurer, how am I trolling? They are claiming that conjurers are just as good as wizards read the posts a little more.</p>

[thajo]

<p>Conj's can do some serious hurt on mobs that are single target burns and last for 1 min or less.  Let me throw some examples down where I've competed with a balls to walls conj.  Notice the important role duration of encounter and whether theres AoEs to hit effect the outcome:</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">disclaimer: while I know these parses went well for me I do not know what turmoil or lameness our conj could have faced that would cause his parse to be less than his best capable performance on a fight, albeit all these were *perfect* condition fights for me. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"></span></p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">primarily a single target burn</span></p><p>Rathgar: (00:4<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> | 64333807 | 1340288 | [Dakkota-Fiery Blast-617228]</p><p><strong>Conj</strong> | 119695 | <span style="font-size: 11.6667px;"><strong>Dakk</strong> | 115266 </span></p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">A fight that spawns swarm sets of adds to AoE:</span></p><p>Ritualist Sqilak: (01:4<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> | 85298554 | 789801 | [Dakkota-Ice Comet-292820]</p><p><strong>Dakk</strong> | 85898 | person | 72367 | person | 53516 | person | 51021 | person | 47600 | <strong>Conj</strong> | 43985  </p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">A single target burn with some hectic-ness & longer duration</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 11.6667px;">Aereon: (01:33) | 57473314 | 617993 | [Dakkota-Fiery Blast-610172]</span></p><p><strong>Dakk</strong> | 83422 | <strong>Conj</strong> | 58308 </p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Massive AoE fight</span></p><p>Vernox the Insatiable: (02:04) | 116353938 | 938338 | [Dakkota-Fusion-316370]</p><p>person | 93816 | <strong>Dakk</strong> | 90354 | person | 77892 | person | 73792 | person | 72942 | person | 64788 | <strong>Conj</strong> | 64579 </p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Straight single burn:</span></p><p>Sara Greenheart: (01:0<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" /> | 67020241 | 985592 | [Dakkota-Ice Comet-307806]</p><p><strong>Conj</strong> | 83890 | <strong>Dakk</strong> | 81156 </p><p><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Straight single burn with a bit more duration (this came immediatly after Greenheart)</span></p><p>The Scavanator: (01:29) | 81041170 | 910575 | [Dakkota-Fiery Blast-415046]</p><p><strong>Dakk</strong> | 75768 | person | 65430 | person | 64151 | person | 59173 | person | 55269 | <strong>Solj</strong> | 55160 </p><p>What do I gather from this?  Faster sub min single target burns when they get a TW for their DBL elemental blast...is really tough to out-do tbh.  But longer fights...fighters where I can hit my powerful AoEs....and collective zonewides - the conj should not be winning all those.</p><div></div><div></div><div></div>

[hellfire]

<p><cite>Dakkota@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>But longer fights...fighters where I can hit my powerful AoEs....and collective zonewides - the conj should not be winning all those.</p></blockquote><p>Preety much been like that forever....well since KoS times and rightly so.</p>

[Filly67]

<p>Have a wizard and conj and the conj blows the wizard away.  That being said I only group, never raid and from what I have seen the wiz really comes into her own in a raid with all the right buffs. </p><p>My conj is my go to gal everytime.</p>

[wullailhuit]

<p>Elemental Blast is currently way overpowered with shared stats to pets, several conjurors I know admit this , it's a non-cost mega nuke once a minute.</p><p>By non-cost , I mean it doesn't take pet or player health or power to cast , it has no penalty for casting it.</p><p>It's a 1 button 'I-Win' extra pet nuke that can hit for a LOT of damage.</p><p>The 'Soul Burn' endline nuke takes most of the the pets health to cast so there is a 'cost' involved.</p><p>Even on the shorter fights with EB being the way it is ('non-cost') conjurors are currently topping parses.</p>

[Lamprey_02]

<p>Elemental blast isn't once a minute, it has a 3 min recast. With max spell reuse it can come down to 1.5 min, and 90% of conjurors don't have that - no aa for reuse.</p>

[Econometr]

<p>Shouldn't the top caster dps classes be wizard and warlock?  If conjuror is out-damaging warlock and wizard, then something is not right.  A class should not have better survivability/soloing ability and do more damage when grouped.</p>

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><cite>Econometrix wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Shouldn't the top caster dps classes be wizard and warlock?  If conjuror is out-damaging warlock and wizard, then something is not right.  A class should not have better survivability/soloing ability and do more damage when grouped.</p></blockquote><p>I've been watching and listening on CB the last couple months.  There's quite a few people choosing to bench their Wiz mains, Roll Conj Mains and fill raid slots. </p><p>My question to the Devs is WHY are they doing this? I'd bet it has something to do with the "Ease" of reaching the same dps.  How much focus and<em> effort</em> is required to wring a Wiz out?  How much for a conj?  Are Conj supposed to be the same dps? </p>

[Baldrian]

<p>jus try harder.i compared myself always with to top parsing classes.and by loosing i worked hard until i got them.the wizz might need more training to push the same numbers.but tbh: its not fun to be outparsed by my pet.better to do all the dps by my own.</p><p>as long as u have several classes played by equal skilled and equipped players u always had one class who won the competition.wizards wont a couple time so assasins did.so why shouldnt it be the conjy now?even if its only in some special situations.who cares.push as hard as u can and compete urself with other wizzards ww and check how good u are <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Cisgo]

<p><cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Econometrix wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Shouldn't the top caster dps classes be wizard and warlock?  If conjuror is out-damaging warlock and wizard, then something is not right.  A class should not have better survivability/soloing ability and do more damage when grouped.</p></blockquote><p>I've been watching and listening on CB the last couple months.  There's quite a few people choosing to bench their Wiz mains, Roll Conj Mains and fill raid slots. </p><p>My question to the Devs is WHY are they doing this? I'd bet it has something to do with the "Ease" of reaching the same dps.  How much focus and<em> effort</em> is required to wring a Wiz out?  How much for a conj?  Are Conj supposed to be the same dps? </p></blockquote><p>   The obvious answer is that Conjurors currently are more attractive to a raid then a Wiz. They do comparable DPS if not better than the Wiz. most of the time. They provide much better utility to the group (Elemental Tox, Pet Raid buff, group Stoneskins).</p><p>   The Devs. in my opinion went way overboard on Elemental Blast, I complained in SoF beta about it being over the top. Then it's reuse was dropped from 5 min to 3. At Fan Fair they said it was to be so powerful as to rip aggro and supposed to kill the pet. Fast foward to DoV and you pile on pet stat sharing, as well as Soulburn and you have created a monster in 2 expacs. My question is, why not switch?</p>

[disappointed]

<p>oh btw - dont forget to mention the ridiculus overpowered multi attack.</p><p>named assassins like gaige claim that their melee dps does 1/3 of their dmg but that is only partly true.</p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/DzdU7.jpg" width="1293" height="898" /></p><p>what i see here is at least 49% of that parse coming from overpowered melee auto attack.with the lots of swings each auto attack ( what is it atm ? like 14 a swing average? ) comes lots of procs and whatnot from grp buffs and proc buffs.lets not forget that from all mages ( except maybe a warlock ) wizards got to be close to themob to fully unleash their dps potential wearing a fancy dress. when there is moving involvedthe melee DPS class aswell as pet class got a clear advantage. not to mention the huge min maxdmg spread along with the uncontrolable SDA that make wizard dps depent on lucky dice.</p><p>also pet classes shouldnt be able to parse as good as wizards/ locks because of theirsurviveability and well - their pets. it simply means people dont need to roll a wizard becauseyou can do the same dps a wizard does - even better on short bursts because EB can crit and double attackwhereas manaburn cannot plus they can solo some of the minor heroic zones because they gotpets that handle enough hits to burst the nameds where a wizard/ lock would get the beating.this is why i think summoners shouldnt do as much dps and i also think the flurry/ multi statsT1 scout DD can achieve are insane and overpowered.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>33% of the damage is auto attack, not sure what you're reading on there and multi attack/flurry do NOT proc extra damage because they are conciderd procs and as we all know "procs don't proc, procs".</p><p> yes manaburn and lifeburn should be allowed to crit, this isn't eof anymore.</p><p> by the way scouts and summoners have a whole lot more things to deal with then wizards and warlocks do to put up their damage and i know first hand because i have raided all of them.     their damage is justified by having to take care of pets and deal with aoe's and positional/range limits.   </p><p> yes EB is overpowerd compared the junk that necro got but it's in line with the rest of the dps classes.</p>

[disappointed]

<p>yeah sure 33% is autoattack but with it comes procs. its ~160k dps just from autoattack along with the procs etc.not sure where you only see that 33%.</p><p>i strongly disagree with the whole lot of other things scouts and summoners have to do. what do you have to do foryour pet? send it to attack? they can stand max range and still do the same dps they would do upclose( not to mention that there is no real need to stand close ) while the wizard cannot.scouts always have their OP autoattack plus being able to cast CA/ spells on the run so positioning is not thathard - not to mention that assassins dont need that anymore with that special of theirs. jousting an aoe?or position change`? np just turn on range auto attack - sucks but you can still do 200k each autoattack round while moving.</p><p>summoners dps is way over top as i already said, they also have that OP pet that can tank nameds and i am nottalking about their tank pet either. saying it´s in line with other dps classes is just ignorant imho.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>auto attack IS 33% of his damage on that parse and yes that is up from past expansion were it only did 20%-30% but still nothing like what you're saying. </p> <p>  stop bringing up procs, every class gets procs, it's a non issue.</p> <p>  you posted a parse from the assassin with the best gear and class support in the game and compering it to "joe blow" wizard?  how dumb is that?</p> <p> summoners have to keep their pet in "line of sight"  that means they can't just reposition their self and attack instantly they need to worry about their pet also, not to mention the fact that the pet will move around on his own and most of the time moves out of line of sight  you have to keep your pet cured and alive if he's out of reach of group heals, no healer targets summoner pets unless it's specifically asked and even then.</p> <p>  melee scouts constantly loose melee damage as the mob is moved around or switching targets while range dps just tabs and continues damaging at will, with out missing a beat.  melee dps can (not often) flat out loose a ca's damage potential if the ca is missed/blocked/riposte/parried/doges all a caster has to do is recast his spell if it's resisted.  same goes for summoner pets if a summoners pet is resisted that damage is lost until the spell comes up for casting again in the pets order.</p> <p>   so in short if you don't know what you're talking about because you clearly have no clue about raiding these classes with any consistency then maybe you should not make such decisive post.</p>

[Cisgo]

<p>  Why is it every time someone has a beef with "conjuror" DPS or utility they use the word summoner? Please stop lumping necros into this pile, they need a wee bit more tuning to be on par with the conjuror.</p>

[disappointed]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>auto attack IS 33% of his damage on that parse and yes that is up from past expansion were it only did 20%-30% but still nothing like what you're saying. </p> <p>  stop bringing up procs, every class gets procs, it's a non issue.</p> <p>  you posted a parse from the assassin with the best gear and class support in the game and compering it to "joe blow" wizard?  how dumb is that?</p> <p> summoners have to keep their pet in "line of sight"  that means they can't just reposition their self and attack instantly they need to worry about their pet also, not to mention the fact that the pet will move around on his own and most of the time moves out of line of sight  you have to keep your pet cured and alive if he's out of reach of group heals, no healer targets summoner pets unless it's specifically asked and even then.</p> <p>  melee scouts constantly loose melee damage as the mob is moved around or switching targets while range dps just tabs and continues damaging at will, with out missing a beat.  melee dps can (not often) flat out loose a ca's damage potential if the ca is missed/blocked/riposte/parried/doges all a caster has to do is recast his spell if it's resisted.  same goes for summoner pets if a summoners pet is resisted that damage is lost until the spell comes up for casting again in the pets order.</p> <p>   so in short if you don't know what you're talking about because you clearly have no clue about raiding these classes with any consistency then maybe you should not make such decisive post.</p></blockquote><p>of course everyone has procs but melee dps has way more because they hit 3 times more due to their two millions melee hits each swing.i wrote that auto attack makes up for more than 1/3 of melee classes dps and it is correct. given how easy it is nowadays to get high flurry % chances mages need something to make up for it.i do have a clue about raiding - maybe more than you or maybe you just desperatly try to conceal given facts... idkim just not in denial of facts like you are. a wizard for example since this is the wizard part here has to stand pretty close to a mobso he can be competitive which is a huge disadvantage per default.no other mage class except warlock need to do that. melee class dont loose as much dps as a mage does when it comes to moving because of the two million auto attack hits they do - even with a bow <span style="text-decoration: underline;"><em>while moving</em></span>...i agree that parry etc is a very bad thing but then again - you can continue to spam CA / autoattack while a short casted spell takeslets say 2 seconds to cast in average - being resisted its got a small downtime lets say 0,5 sec plus the cast time again plus recovery time after it so it meansabout 5 seconds of doing no damage at all except for the very spell you are casting twice versus about 2 melee auto attack rounds for a 4 sec delay wpn with propper haste plus the other CA you can apply after a parry.together with fiery blast - a spell failure or mob move/ yourself being forced to move is fatal to a wizards special endline ability. unlike exploit weakness for example or w/e other melee endline special there is.</p><p>i am arguing with given facts while you give assumptions about healer not healing pets and calling me out about having no clue? good game brolar bear but maybe its you that shouldnt make decisive posts.</p><p>resisting summoner pets? are you even serious or do you just dont like the tone of my post for w/e reason and desperatly try to negate it?if you are playing a t1 melee dps class and not topping every mage then get good. see? it works both ways.</p>