Suggestions for PvP (Oct 2010) [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Buttcliffe

10-23-2010, 02:31 PM

Hello PvP community.I wanted to consolidate a few of my thoughts about current PvP and get some community feedback.I have been PvPing on Nagafen for over 5 years. With over 40,000 kills on various toons, I have seen the ups and downs of PvP in different tiers and across different expansions.I have also managed to experience PvP on a variety of classes such as Monk, Assassin, Warden, Coercer. I think it's given me some good insight into the requirements for full group and also smaller group/solo PvP.I will number my points in case anyone reads and wants to refer back.1) Fame systemThis has always been an area of contention and heated debate. The current system involves no fame loss, other than when not playing (i.e. infamy decay when logged off). This is opposed to the previous system where fame could be lost when dying to someone within your fame range.Some players place a lot of value in title and fame, others very little. If I consider what the title system means now on a pvp server, it generally means very little. High quality players in good gear, who do not pvp very much are often seen with low titles (for example). I then see many players with high titles gained by not logging out and hitting red con opponents as they are about to be slaughtered, thereby gaining fame even though they contributed virtually nothing to the kill. This is not how it should be. I have had hunter title and overlord title, and previously enjoyed the title system, but now it is meaningless and makes pvp less likely to reward good players.So the title system currently pays no attention to kill/death ratio, how much you die or generally how well you perform in pvp. It basically rewards players who don't log out very much. I see a lot of players who will literally never log out, I assume to maintain a title and prevent it from decaying.The title system needs some more thought. It should be there as an indication of pvp performance, and should probably involve a variety of factors such as: kill/death ratio, total kills, kill against similar titled players etc.From my perspective, the old system was better, but I can see that it often discouraged people from fighting in an attempt to maintain a title. I would like to see a return to a system where fame is gained through kills, but also lost through deaths. More fame is gained through a solo kill, less for group kills (easier to kill someone with a full group really).2) ImmunityCurrent rules on immunity is that many of the previous perma-immunity spots (rez spots, dock areas etc) have been removed. 1 minute of immunity is granted to players to give them a chance to move, zone, fly or whatever.I understand the purpose of removing perma-immunity so that players are forced to move back into the fray, or at least make a decision instead of simply going afk or standing around while immune.An example of what the 1 minute of immunity now offers:I can zone into Stonebrunt Highlands druid rings, look about for 20 seconds and slowly make my way to either the flight pad or zone into vasty deep with plenty of time to spare.Inside Vasty Deep, I can pick up a variety of quests and zone into any of the three instances with time to spare.In Stonebrunt Highlands I can zone through wizard spire and either run to the Quel'Ule pad or run to Moonfield hamlet without losing immunty.In Kylong Plains I can zone in through Druid rings / docks / Wizard spires and reach a flight griff without losing immunity. I can even zone through the spire at Terrens Grasp and fly to the docks before my immunity has even ended.In any zone, if I don't want to be unimmune, I can pretty much reach a bell and zone to a safe zone (i.e. Q harbor or Freeport) where I am immune. That, or simply use a call to city or guild hall which are virtually always up. Several other options also exist (tavern call, butcherblock barrel, majdul call etc).So what has the 1 minute immunity achieved? I don't think it has offered any benefits. People who don't want to lose immunity simply remove themselves from the zone. I like the current situation of not getting perma-immunity on death, I would like to see this incombination with the 30 seconds of immunity. This brings back a little of the risk and also calls for better decision making when zoning or reviving. This addds to the depth and skill required, in my opinion. The current system is again too easy.3) Discord and Battlegrounds tokensThe ability to purchase armor for pvp or battlegrounds has always been the biggest incentive for many people fighting. i don't mind the battlegrounds and have had a lot of fun in them. For me its not the same as open world pvp but still good fun. Smugglers Den and Ganak are good fields, Gears is really quite terrible requiring little more than standing around in a circle healing/taunting/aoeing with fights being won or lost 90% of the time by group setup/quality.Pvp writs currently grant 5 discord tokens for every 6 kills. A solo pvper will get 5 discord tokens for 6 kills. A group of 6 will get 30 discord tokens overall for 6 kills. Most of the time a group of 6 players can expect to get more kills than 1 or 2 players. this of course makes full group pvp mcuh more lucrative at this time, with security in numbers.Generally less status is gained from a group kill, but who really cares about status? I have toons with 30 million status and 40 million status etc, with nothing to spend it on. Status always seemed to me a better currency for pvp gear than tokens (you gain less status for group kills, but probably get more kills so it balances out).The pvp armor is just too easy to obtain in the current setup. In a big pvp session, its possible to finish a number of writs to the extent that if you pvp a lot you can pick up a new piece every one or two days. Rather I would like to see a move back to chest dropped tokens. This way a solo player who gets less kills will generally be on par with a player that groups and gets more kills but would win only a percentage of the tokens.From my perspective, Battlegrounds can be fun but should be seen as completely seperate from open world play. Gear earned in battlegrounds should not be usable in the open world.If the accumulation of tokens can be moderated a bit, it would also be nice to bringing in some higher quality gear, but require a lot of tokens to purchase it. Hence a lot of pvp required to get it. This only if tokens are not handed out so freely in group pvp.4) Class BalanceToo much to cover here. When so many class and race combinations exist it will be impossible to achieve perfect balance. Even if this was achieved then any update would upset that balance.Currently scouts are powerful and able to solo or group. I like that necros and wiz/warlock are also powerful with the ability to solo, and also many healer classes. Inquis for example is a very strong class, solo or grouped. Fighters, particularly brawlers are still strong, no problems there.Coercer/Illy are powerful in groups with sufficient healers, but weak when solo. The big nerf of CC and lack of wards/defense makes it tough for enchaters to pvp effectively. Enchanters and troubs could use some more power to their CC which would help give them back their pvp capabilities.5) WarfieldsWarfields I saw as a tool to help encourage open world pvp. The move back to Kylong Plains saw me cheering because I love the diversity and opportunity for good pvp in that zone. It supports a number of hot spots and brings big factors like terrain and the need for intelligent battle decisions.The best HotspotsTerrens Grasp: Climbing over pyramids, fighting inside buildings, climbing the spires, battling on the rampDocks: Climbing mountains, floating onto trees and the ruins, fighting around the lake and dockThe worst areaskunzars edge: Too far from any zoneline, takes time to reach, flat and lacking in startegic terrain choices.Near Jarsath Wastes has potential, but it's just too far from any major zone-in. Put a bell at Jarsath entrance and this might change.At this time, there is an imbalance in player volumes, with Freeport fielding many more players into the warfield than Qeynos. This I dont mind, it was the exact opposite several months ago, its a cycle. I also prefer being on the underdog side, fighting more of a guerilla style pvp.What I often see at the moment is large groups of Freeport zoning into KP as the warfield starts. They will move in mass to one of the two tower areas (often 4 or 5 full groups). They will then bash down the tower guardians and move quickly to the other tower location, bash that down, get a few tokens then leave the zone. this is not a criticism of Freeport, I'm sure the same would be the case for Qeynos if they had numbers advantage. It's more that i find the mechanics of the Warfield does not stimulate decent pvp.The positive aspects are that the horrendous lag that used to arrive in active pvp zones is mostly gone, this is a great development. I have also seen the changes to toughness and cures to be beneficial. Fights can actually end and people can actually run out of power etc.If I could see a single change, it would be to remove the ability to end a warfield quickly (i.e. within 4 or 5 minutes if one side dominates). The warfield should last a set amount of time (30 minutes?), with one team winning at the end and getting the benefit of more tokens. Afterall, the aim is to stimulate more pvp, not have a 5 minute sesssion of bashing tower gaurdians then zoning out.SummaryRemoval of perma-immunity is good, but limit immunity to 30 seconds instead of 1 minute.Infamy should be gained for kills (more infamy for solo or small groups). Infamy should be lost if killed. Infamy should not be lost for logging out or camping (how was that ever considered a good idea?). Discord tokens should be chest drops, not auto-updates for the whole group.Pvp is definitely stimulated by Warfields, but quick endings should not be possible. 5 minutes of tower bashing might seem like a victory, but noone really enjoys it much, and its certainly not pvp. If the tower system is to remain, move then closer to some of the hotspots such as the docks or terrens grasp, or add a bell near to Jarsath area.The ability to used a multi-stepped flight path should never really have been implemented on pvp servers. Even for Pve I see it as more confusing than beneficial, particularly when it doesnt really offer shortcuts, just removes the need to rehail at each flight pad. Some of the flight paths are completely illogical.Seeing a lot of people out pvping is great. I want more pvp and like the fact that you can virtually exist on pvp alone and gain gear etc through it without the need to grind instances if you dont want to. Ths offers many more options to a larger variety of players.The gear available at this time is really a little too cookie cutter. For pvp everyone is forced into using the Challengers gear or MC gear as a lesser option. None of the other armor, even good instance dropped armor has toughness, so everyone is walking around in the same armor, which makes things dull and limits gear decisions (less thought required)