Carnage flag should NOT be applied if you are inside your proper WF tier

[007djdeadly]

<p></p> <p >I understand that carnage flagging was introduced to keep low-level toons from tagging 90s for updates.<span>  </span>Fair enough.</p> <p >However, it should NOT apply inside of your tier of a Warfield.  It is in fact against the spirit of a "warfield".</p> <p>This is not the case of 40s tagging 90s.<span>  </span>Instead, this is 40s killing 50s and 60s, which they need to be able to do to win the WF.  As it is now, a group of 60s with a 90 in tow (which is all too common these days) can run amuck in EL, and there is nothing the 40s can do about it.</p><p></p><p>The EL Warfield is sparse enough without this artificial limit on PVP.</p>

[Felleyes]

<p>In Ant last night, several 90s were chasing down and killing 30s who were carnaged from fighting T5s who were looking for easy kills in the T4 WF.</p><p>It’s funny the carnage rules were implemented to protect 90s from being harassed by grays and resulted in 90s hanging out in the lowest level WF on the server so they can one-hit players 60 leves lower than them.</p>

[Jab]

<p>Ahhh..</p><p>The game has come full circle..Finally =)</p>

[raydenwins]

I agree, I can't see the logic of carnaging my 81 for attacking a 90 in a wf.

[NolaDragon]

<p>That is kinda funny ... just goes to show the devs dont think like players do.  Or do they <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/0320a00cb4bb5629ab9fc2bc1fcc4e9e.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Ralpmet]

<p>Sorry if this seems off point, but just to get this straight;</p><p>You think you should have the "surprise" advantage against level 60's at level 40, however after you've "surprised" them (we're not going to call it leeching because I have easily downed 60's at 40 on an op class) they shouldn't have the right to retaliate?</p><p>If there's 90's hanging out in the WF they are getting absolutely nothing from it, just wasting their time. Probably payback for the number of you that were leeching in CL and ANT for so long TBH. Should fade with time, the new system is perfectly fine with me and I engage reds for updates all the time; not like they get anything for killing me afterwards.</p>

[Silverzx]

<p>this new system is extremely broken.  What is happening is this:</p><p>a level 60 and 65 group up.</p><p>They get jumped by a 69 ranger</p><p>The level 60 fights back only to get flagged for retaliating against someone over 8 levels that attacked his group first.</p><p>The level 90 noobs lurking around in el cuz they can't handle fighting people his level in his tier wf one shots the whole group.</p><p>Another situation that happens:</p><p>a trio of 45s attack a level 55.</p><p>the 45s get flagged for attacking a red 55 that is 10 levels higher.</p><p>The 55 retaliates and in turn gets flagged as well for attacking carnage flagged greys.</p><p>90 noob one shots him and the 35 wins</p><p>Simple fix:</p><p>If you're defending your group, you do not get flagged.</p><p>Any 90s or people not in the proper warfield participating in ant or EL warfields gets hit with the 1 shot from tower guardian spell for attacking people that do belong in that wf.</p>

[KatrinaDeath]

<p>Carnage flag rules should not have changed from what they were. The issue here is the idea of warfields themselves. They never should have came into existance.</p>

[Morogoth Drakul]

<p><cite>Silverzx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>this new system is extremely broken.  What is happening is this:</p><p>a level 60 and 65 group up.</p><p>They get jumped by a 69 ranger</p><p>The level 60 fights back only to get flagged for retaliating against someone over 8 levels that attacked his group first.</p><p>The level 90 noobs lurking around in el cuz they can't handle fighting people his level in his tier wf one shots the whole group.</p><p>Another situation that happens:</p><p>a trio of 45s attack a level 55.</p><p>the 45s get flagged for attacking a red 55 that is 10 levels higher.</p><p>The 55 retaliates and in turn gets flagged as well for attacking carnage flagged greys.</p><p>90 noob one shots him and the 35 wins</p><p>Simple fix:</p><p>If you're defending your group, you do not get flagged.</p><p>Any 90s or people not in the proper warfield participating in ant or EL warfields gets hit with the 1 shot from tower guardian spell for attacking people that do belong in that wf.</p></blockquote><p>I find the whole situation extremely hilarious myself mostly due in part to the fact that people kept asking for it. Then when it was implemented people were like "FINALLY!!! They did something right!!". What are yall saying now? Oh wait its not broken again is it? No it can't be if they just fixed it they way yall wanted it. Carnage flagging all seems to work just fine for me.</p><p>My personal opinion is they just need to remove carnage flagging, implement open world pvp after level 30 (before then have some sort of short level range) , and be done with it. No worrying about all the crying this is pvp and people chose it. My idea isnt popular with all most likely but it would get the job done.</p>

[Ilovecows]

<p>I can Also remember being a level 30, and a 35 would be grouped with a 40, and the 35 would attack me.  I don't want to sit there and let them kill me so my group fights them and wins, and then one of the random 90s lurking around can come and kill us all.  seems fair.  right?</p>

[plasmapuppy]

<p>Each zone has an intended level range based on PvE.  For PvP, simple impose the intended range levels.  Anyone above the zone range level is carnage flagged and considered mentored, effectively making them unable to participate in PvP (yet can be killed) while in the zone.  Simple. </p><p>Say a 90 and a 30 wish to group.  For PvE the 90 would mentor to do level 30 content.  Effectively force the 90 to be mentored in this case when in a level 30 zone.  Not enforcing this for PvP is essentially an exploit.</p><p>Higher level toons should not be seeking easy kills in lower level zones.  Go enjoy the content for your level and increase the PvP activity of those zones in the process.</p><p>High level toons get so many benefits already.  Grant a slight edge to the lower level players by giving them ownership of their zones.  90s trying to do simply grey quests should be made vulnerable.</p>

[Morogoth Drakul]

<p><cite>plasmapuppy wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Each zone has an intended level range based on PvE.  For PvP, simple impose the intended range levels.  Anyone above the zone range level is carnage flagged and considered mentored, effectively making them <strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">unable to participate in PvP</span></strong> (<strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">yet can be killed</span></strong>) while in the zone.  Simple. </p></blockquote><p>This is something I never liked about mentoring. which is basically why people don't mentor outside of instances most times.</p><p>If you are going to automentor me then you are going to allow me to fight back end of story. I don't stay in my "level range" I like playing in other places and seeing other zones. The alternative is just make me a invalid target while mentored. If you dont want me pvping on a pvp server then make me a invalid target. That will stop people from killing me and I still wont be able to attack them since im mentored.</p><p>I have to make a side note though: Think this idea out very carefully. Localizing and tiering pvp is worse than BG, WF, and insta travel combined. People will be stuck in their level range or have to face the fact they WILL be killed when in other zones with no hope of being able to defend themselves. Its basically saying "yeah all this content is here but while your there you cant fight anyone. oh and btw, we decided they can kill you anyway. oh yeah and we forgot to tell you... your no longer level 90. you are now level xx. Have a nice day!"</p>

[Ralpmet]

<p><cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can Also remember being a level 30, and a 35 would be grouped with a 40, and the 35 would attack me.  I don't want to sit there and let them kill me so my group fights them and wins, and then one of the random 90s lurking around can come and kill us all.  seems fair.  right?</p></blockquote><p>You can't fight people outside of the highest group members level range, so this is either made up or made up. I can't decide.</p><p>edit: I get what you're saying now, but my point about it being made up still stands. A 35 is yellow to you at 30, not red, and thusly you are not carnage flagged by attacking him.</p>

[Silverzx]

<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ilovecows@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can Also remember being a level 30, and a 35 would be grouped with a 40, and the 35 would attack me.  I don't want to sit there and let them kill me so my group fights them and wins, and then one of the random 90s lurking around can come and kill us all.  seems fair.  right?</p></blockquote><p>You can't fight people outside of the highest group members level range, so this is either made up or made up. I can't decide.</p><p>edit: I get what you're saying now, but my point about it being made up still stands. A 35 is yellow to you at 30, not red, and thusly you are not carnage flagged by attacking him.</p></blockquote><p>he did say he was grouped, maybe someone in his group was level 32</p>

[S3V3R3NC3]

<p>Here is what actually happens in wf's, a grey group of freeports (since 90% of the server is freeport) will follow a red around waiting for him or her to engage a person in their level range, after this they will engage with abilities that make is impossible for the red to fight their target (taunting stunning snaring) effectively making it a 17v1 most of the time.</p><p>Greys you are not the victim in an unfair system here.  Its complete bs that you can follow a pvp target around while they cannot do anything at all to you and then use abilities on them that seem to have no problem being effective against someone 20 levels higher.</p><p>Carnage flagging is a bad idea it should be changed so that if you can attack them they can attack you.</p><p>IE no level range or the 8 level range being applied to reds and greys that is greys cannot attack anyone 8 levels higher, period.</p><p>I know this wont happen but before the gms change it so you guys can go back to leeching I just had to let you all know you are in no way the victims here.</p><p>Give me a break.</p>

[Silverzx]

<p><cite>S3V3R3NC3 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Here is what actually happens in wf's, a grey group of freeports (since 90% of the server is freeport) will follow a red around waiting for him or her to engage a person in their level range, after this they will engage with abilities that make is impossible for the red to fight their target (taunting stunning snaring) effectively making it a 17v1 most of the time.</p><p>Greys you are not the victim in an unfair system here.  Its complete bs that you can follow a pvp target around while they cannot do anything at all to you and then use abilities on them that seem to have no problem being effective against someone 20 levels higher.</p><p>Carnage flagging is a bad idea it should be changed so that if you can attack them they can attack you.</p><p>IE no level range or the 8 level range being applied to reds and greys that is greys cannot attack anyone 8 levels higher, period.</p><p>I know this wont happen but before the gms change it so you guys can go back to leeching I just had to let you all know you are in no way the victims here.</p><p>Give me a break.</p></blockquote><p>no ones claiming anyone are victims other then you.  we are just saying that this new system is just as broken if not more broken than the old system.  if you plan on having a 1v1 while 16 other greys are watching, i dont think the 16 greys are to blame.</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<p><cite>S3V3R3NC3 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Here is what actually happens in wf's, a grey group of freeports (since 90% of the server is freeport) will follow a red around waiting for him or her to engage a person in their level range, after this they will engage with abilities that make is impossible for the red to fight their target (taunting stunning snaring) effectively making it a 17v1 most of the time.</p><p>Greys you are not the victim in an unfair system here.  Its complete bs that you can follow a pvp target around while they cannot do anything at all to you and then use abilities on them that seem to have no problem being effective against someone 20 levels higher.</p></blockquote><p>For several months while Qeynos out numbered Freeport this is what we endured.  Packs of grey Q's standing behind a grp of 2 or more even con Q grps with 15-20+ greys stunning, mezzing, taunt and running away leeching updates.  Back then you will recall you all "earned" alot more tokens for the welfare field events. </p><p>The new change has fixed that (welfare fields still fail at promoting decent pvp).  Virtually no Q grey horde exists anymore.  There are 2-3 locked Q greys in KP and as soon as they get carnaged I attack them as priority targets over even cons such is my grey rage over these past few months.  Most people though are not going to the lower tier welfare events and slumming just to kill greys for no reason. </p><p>People purposely going to the lower lvl events to kill greys can just be called out.  An appropriate PVP solution exists.  I am sure if you called out in channel that some 90's were slumming in Antonica a t9 pvp grp or team would show up for the easy token.   IN the EL welfare Fields I see 1-2 90 Q's running around killing carnaged flagged FPs daily.  A sad lvl 90 exile too who likes to stand on the towers and kill people who don't turn off their fighter aoe.  A guildie called out a Q guardian doing just this in EL the other day.  I dropped grp and took my guardian to EL to fight the other guardian.  People slumming in the lower lvl events are free updates.  Ask for help - I am sure you will recieve it.</p><p>Remember:   If your flagged in the appropriate tier expect to die or don't flag yourself.  Only you can prevent grey carnage flagging.</p>

[S3V3R3NC3]

<p>Greys shouldnt be able to follow you around and decide when they get to engage you.  Make it so the 8 level range is applied to 8 levels higher not just 8 levels lower.</p><p>Regardless of if its a qeynos grey or a freeport grey it is just too much of an advantage to be able to choose when to engage someoen when they do not have that option.</p><p>Im sure ill soon hear, well then dont try and fight someone your level when there are 17 greys around, but youll soon notice that youll never get to fight someone then, greys love the ability to zerg reds for easy kills so everyone is doing it. The only place you'll ever find t5 pvp is in an el warfield and it is dominated by zerging greys making it impossible to do anything other than get zerged by greys</p><p>I was assuming everyone wanted to make everquest 2 have better pvp not just make it easier for people to get kills.</p><p>Make it so you fight people your own range I guarantee it would make the game alot better, its one step into making it about fighting other players, not just getting updates.</p>

[Orthureon]

<p>I love killing carnage flagged people, I found if you do it enough they will call in 90s. It makes getting tokens a little easier.</p>

[NOPVE]

<p>There is no logical reason a 90 is in Antonica. They're there because they can't play with the big boys, plain and simple.</p>