PvP to PvE - Can We Have It?

[ThomasCH]

<p>Hi,</p><p>It was brought up some months back by Rothgar, now asking again. For the love of god, can you please please please enable PvP to PvE transfers and vice versa. So many years later, it is getting extremly old. Even World of Warcraft has this feature enabled. Are we really falling that far behind?</p><p>A lot of players are dying and wishing for this to come true and we are all holding our breath. Please allow this soon. Dont care what it is gonna cost, dont care if you cant transfer with all of your stuff. Just allow it.</p><p>Thanks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Zmobie]

<p>Agreed.</p><p>Currently, I have 3 level 80 adventurers and 4 80 crafters stuck on a server I'll never play on again. I can't bear to delete them, simply because I don't want to take the time to rebuild them. But I miss them, and would love to move them over to my current, enjoyable, server. They have no PVP gear. There is absolutely no logical reason I shouldn't be allow to move them off a server whose ruleset I hate, and onto one whose rulset I enjoy.</p><p>--Kait</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>Kaityn@Blackburrow wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There is absolutely no logical reason I shouldn't be allow to move them off a server whose ruleset I hate, and onto one whose rulset I enjoy.</p></blockquote><p>Well there is a logical reason.. and that reason was that it was stated from the beginning that you couldn't. /shrug 17 xpacs later and EQ1 still doesn't allow it.. I don't see it ever happening</p>

[thesiren]

<p>I will chime in here, not because I personally want to move my Nagafen toons, but because you can copy a character from any server including Nagafen and Vox/Bazaar to EQ2 Extended, which is PvE, for 35 bucks.  So PvP characters are already flying onto a PvE server in every shape and size with all bound gear coming along for the ride.</p><p>So what's the problem here?  Sony doesn't want to make $35 a pop on live too?</p>

[JoarAddam]

<p>At this point the pvp folk don't want the live folk to have the PVP server only crutches when they go into BG, so you'd have to go in and delete <strong>all </strong>the pvp items and you'd end up in a situation where people are whining because they have to do the transfer naked and it's not fair when a pve to pve transfer doesn't really lose anything.</p>

[Rahatmattata]

<p><cite>ThomasCH wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>World of Warcraft has this feature</p></blockquote><p>OMG 'nuff said. Make it so.</p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>At this point the pvp folk don't want the live folk to have the PVP server only crutches when they go into BG, so you'd have to go in and delete <strong>all </strong>the pvp items and you'd end up in a situation where people are whining because they have to do the transfer naked and it's not fair when a pve to pve transfer doesn't really lose anything.</p></blockquote><p>Really?  So much hostility.  The people that want to transfer dont care about the pvp items..  they want to leave a pvp server.  Obviously if they wanted to pvp they would still be there and wouldnt be here asking to leave.  Believe it or not..  Our terrible pvp server had at one time (this expansion) 3 guilds in the top 15 for progression worldwide.  So alot of us have multiple sets of T3 armor and jewelry and just want to find a place to use it.</p>

[JoarAddam]

<p>that hostility comes from the attitude we get from PVP server players all the time, "If you want a PVP effect, you should have rolled on our server" while at the same time using effects we CAN'T get and gloating over them.  Over and again we got the answer "you just want our stuff, but don't want to do anything to deserve it" when we were asking to PAY for the same effects with time and tokens and a thousand other ways.  People who play 80-89 BG are STILL suffering under the PVP server bias of stats that cannot be gotten, and all that we get from the pvp server folk is more of the "you should have rolled here, quit asking for our stuff there" and no support for ways we could all compete equally.</p><p>At this point, i should be saying "you should have rolled PVE in the first place" but i'm not.  I'm just frustrated at the cake+eating PVP people come to this thread for, expecting no resistance, while trying to keep the rest of us from getting cake on our mains in BG, much less being allowed to eat any.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

There is no good pvp only item short of t8 Mage 2 set ward. The rest you can get on pve

[Seffrid]

<p>I'm astonished that any PvP player would want to transfer to a "carebear" server, about which they are usually <strong><em>so </em></strong>condescending. What's gone wrong, they lost their bottle or something <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />?</p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>Seffrid wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm astonished that any PvP player would want to transfer to a "carebear" server, about which they are usually <strong><em>so </em></strong>condescending. What's gone wrong, they lost their bottle or something <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />?</p></blockquote><p>You would fit in just fine on nagafen you should try it out.  Maybe you and the other smartasses could trade snide comments in 1-9.</p><p>The server rules and direction have drastically changed since the new dev took over.  the server no longer encourages raiding in any form hence making it very difficult to find other like minded individuals. </p><p>Pvp servers have always been carebear, not just the pve servers.</p>

[ThomasCH]

<p>Maybe I just want both? To be able to go somewhere else on one of my characters? There is not really a lot to it. Allow PvP to PvE in 2010. Earn a couple of bucks, make people happy. Your competition enabled it, in time you will too. It is how it works in the industry.</p>

[Seffrid]

<p><cite>ThomasCH wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Maybe I just want both? To be able to go somewhere else on one of my characters?</p></blockquote><p>That option has always been open to you, and remains so. You're not restricted to rolling up characters only on the one server. However, when you rolled up characters on the PvP server you knew that they would be required to remain there and that if you wanted both options the answer at that time was to roll up some of them on a PvE server.</p><p>I hope the rule remains as it's always been, not least because it was founded on principle and it's abandonment now would just be a cheap move by SOE to sell a few more <strong>S</strong>med<strong>C</strong>ents.</p>

[ThomasCH]

<p>And that is fine. You can have your own opinion for this. I dont care to argue with you either because I could find so many reasons that proves how so many things in this game has changed over the years which is what you are trying to use as your trumph card for why it should stay the way it has been since the beginning. Things changes all the time, new rules are made, old rules are broken. Its cool you're not a fan of that.</p><p>PvP to PvE before Velious please!</p>

[PlaneCrazy]

<p>What I don't get is why a Mod hasn't locked or moved this thread? Considering that there's (yet again) another exact same thread only a few posts below this one.</p>

[Seffrid]

<p>No, I acknowledge that a lot of things about the game have changed over the years, but that in itself is not a good enough reason to change something else. If an established rule is to be changed then it should be because the case has been made for it, not because everything else has changed. I don't see the case having been made, and the original principle remains the same and therefore I am opposed to a change on this occasion. That is simply my opinion, to which we are agreed I am entitled.</p>

[Wilde_Night]

<p>The problem is, the PvP server ruleset and attitudes have changed so much since 2007 that those of us who don't enjoy it anymore would like to salvage the characters we put 3+ years into.</p><p>I have rerolled on two other PvE servers since I stopped playing on Nagafen (laments for Venekor.) I've got several characters almost to 90 now. But, I would really like to be able to save my raid geared 80+'s from their dusty existance so they can be played with the guilds I am now with.</p><p>When I started on Venekor, I knew that the rules would be tweaked here and there for balance and what-not. I never, in a million years, expected them to be changed so much that I would loathe logging in.</p><p>PvP to PvE transfers for 2010... and vice versa!!  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Starman]

<p>I really hate apologists.</p><p>When people say "you knew you couldn't transfer when you started there", you're right, but what we did NOT know was that the rules were going to DRASTICALLY change, there was going to be a server merge, and playing on that server would make us unhappy.</p><p>My friend and I spent SO much time and SO much money (on LON cards for the house) that we don't want to lose it all, but we DO NOT play the game anymore because we're stuck on that server.</p><p>EQ2X is not an option.</p><p>We want the ability to move EVERYTHING we worked so hard for to the server I started on on Nov. 8, 2004. What would SOE lose by giving us that capability? See, it's like this: the principal in which the rule was founded is no longer valid. Things have changed. Attitudes have changed. The alternative is to, what, spent MORE *YEARS* rerolling and gathering all the items and gear we got just because of some rule which doesn't do anything but hurt the playerbase?</p><p>No, PvP to PvE needs to be done. However, I agree that PvE to PvP should *NEVER* be done.</p>

[WeatherMan]

<p><cite>Aeviel@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem is, the PvP server ruleset and attitudes have changed so much since 2007 that those of us who don't enjoy it anymore would like to salvage the characters we put 3+ years into.</p><p>I have rerolled on two other PvE servers since I stopped playing on Nagafen (laments for Venekor.) I've got several characters almost to 90 now. But, I would really like to be able to save my raid geared 80+'s from their dusty existance so they can be played with the guilds I am now with.</p><p>When I started on Venekor, I knew that the rules would be tweaked here and there for balance and what-not. I never, in a million years, expected them to be changed so much that I would loathe logging in.</p><p>PvP to PvE transfers for 2010... and vice versa!!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>This.  I lost interest in PvP while I was on Venekor, and deleted my toons there in order to have the character slots available to re-roll on a blue server.  I left before the merge with Nagafen, but that merge would have driven me off, even if I had stayed.  And from what I understand, the experience is even worse now.  Deleting a 40-ish toon is annoying, but not that big a deal...deleting a 90/90/250 would be absolutely intolerable. I am glad I never got that far along.</p><p>I (among others) had a friend (named Djenchri on Venekor - also a RL friend of many years) who basically abandoned her toons on the PvP server, but could not, for the life of her, bring herself to delete them.  So there they sat - but I know she would really have loved to have been able to swap them over to Antonia Bayle, where she spent most of her time (although it was she that brought me and the missus to LDL from Everfrost) . </p><p>I have no idea if the toons are still there (now on Nagafen, obviously) or if her daughter deleted them, even though I can call up EQ2 Players and see that her AB toons are all still there, and even still guilded (kudos to the Moonshadows guild), although she no longer plays (indeed, cannot play, for reasons we will not get into).  But a PvP-to-PvE server transfer would be something she would enthusiastically approve of.  And so do I.</p><p>I have not seen any poster here who would insist on retaining PvP-exclusive gear.  Let them keep anything they could have gotten on a PvE server, and...*bring* them to the PvE server.  LDL in particular would welcome these wayward Norrathian travellers.  And I bet that maybe, just maybe, their place of origin would be one of the biggest *non*-issues possible.</p>

[Nynaeve]

<p><cite>Aeviel@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>PvP to PvE transfers for 2010... and vice versa!!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>this is what people will probably think:</p><p>PvE to PvP : "he's just a loser, taking the easy route, who wouldn't have managed to get to 90 on PvP anyway"</p><p>PvP to PvE: "he cant stand the heat anymore, or he's a disgusting former PK zerg guy"</p><p>whatever, I don't really care if SOE allows it, but generally I am against it because I think a big part of the people on these different playing-style servers also have a different mindset to start with. Certainly not all of them, and it may just be my prejudice, but I consider PVP players to be more like childish WOW kids who like to brag a lot and enjoy seeing other players die.</p>

[Wilde_Night]

<p><cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aeviel@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The problem is, the PvP server ruleset and attitudes have changed so much since 2007 that those of us who don't enjoy it anymore would like to salvage the characters we put 3+ years into.</p><p>I have rerolled on two other PvE servers since I stopped playing on Nagafen (laments for Venekor.) I've got several characters almost to 90 now. But, I would really like to be able to save my raid geared 80+'s from their dusty existance so they can be played with the guilds I am now with.</p><p>When I started on Venekor, I knew that the rules would be tweaked here and there for balance and what-not. I never, in a million years, expected them to be changed so much that I would loathe logging in.</p><p>PvP to PvE transfers for 2010... and vice versa!!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>This.  I lost interest in PvP while I was on Venekor, and deleted my toons there in order to have the character slots available to re-roll on a blue server.  I left before the merge with Nagafen, but that merge would have driven me off, even if I had stayed.  And from what I understand, the experience is even worse now.  Deleting a 40-ish toon is annoying, but not that big a deal...deleting a 90/90/250 would be absolutely intolerable. I am glad I never got that far along.</p><p>I (among others) had a friend (named Djenchri on Venekor - also a RL friend of many years) who basically abandoned her toons on the PvP server, but could not, for the life of her, bring herself to delete them.  So there they sat - but I know she would really have loved to have been able to swap them over to Antonia Bayle, where she spent most of her time (although it was she that brought me and the missus to LDL from Everfrost) . </p><p>I have no idea if the toons are still there (now on Nagafen, obviously) or if her daughter deleted them, even though I can call up EQ2 Players and see that her AB toons are all still there, and even still guilded (kudos to the Moonshadows guild), although she no longer plays (indeed, cannot play, for reasons we will not get into).  But a PvP-to-PvE server transfer would be something she would enthusiastically approve of.  And so do I.</p><p>I have not seen any poster here who would insist on retaining PvP-exclusive gear.  Let them keep anything they could have gotten on a PvE server, and...*bring* them to the PvE server.  LDL in particular would welcome these wayward Norrathian travellers.  And I bet that maybe, just maybe, their place of origin would be one of the biggest *non*-issues possible.</p></blockquote><p>I was Djen's evil side guild leader on Venekor (she was known as Ysobella.) Her characters still exist on our roster and she has a fountain placed in our T3 guild's courtyard that a GM spawned and named for her.</p><p>She's the one that got me and a few others to reroll on AB. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>* I even named my rl kitten after her... and isn't she true to her legacy.  LOL.</p>

[Jeepned2]

<p><cite>thesiren wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I will chime in here, not because I personally want to move my Nagafen toons, but because you can copy a character from any server including Nagafen and Vox/Bazaar to EQ2 Extended, which is PvE, for 35 bucks.  So PvP characters are already flying onto a PvE server in every shape and size with all bound gear coming along for the ride.</p><p>So what's the problem here?  Sony doesn't want to make $35 a pop on live too?</p></blockquote><p>First, don't care who's going to EQ2X. Let people transfer thier WoW toons to EQ2X for all I care. Second, no Sony doesn't want money on live, they want everyone on Extended in hopes of making more money.</p>

[Daenae]

<p>I tried a PvP server before I tried PvE. I've stayed on PvE because I didn't like the mindset of most of those I met on the PvP server. If SoE started allowing those people to move to my server I would be very highly upset.</p>

[Xillean]

<p>Djens good aligned toons are still in my guild Frionia Vies Champions and always will be, her fountain sits proud in our courtyard and wont be removed, and I agree that yes she praobly would have approved of a pvp to pve and vice versa if its ever done.</p>

[WeatherMan]

<p><cite>Aeviel@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was Djen's evil side guild leader on Venekor (she was known as Ysobella.) Her characters still exist on our roster and she has a fountain placed in our T3 guild's courtyard that a GM spawned and named for her.</p><p>She's the one that got me and a few others to reroll on AB. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>* I even named my rl kitten after her... and isn't she true to her legacy.  LOL.</p></blockquote><p>This is awesome.  Kudos to both you and FVC.</p><p>I will send her daughters a message and let them know, and direct them here to see these posts.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Calandriaa@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I tried a PvP server before I tried PvE. I've stayed on PvE because I didn't like the mindset of most of those I met on the PvP server. If SoE started allowing those people to move to my server I would be very highly upset.</p></blockquote><p>There are PvE people with terrible attitudes too.</p>

[Wilde_Night]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Calandriaa@Mistmoore wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I tried a PvP server before I tried PvE. I've stayed on PvE because I didn't like the mindset of most of those I met on the PvP server. If SoE started allowing those people to move to my server I would be very highly upset.</p></blockquote><p>There are PvE people with terrible attitudes too.</p></blockquote><p>QFE.</p><p>And most PvPers I know have decent attitudes toward the game and those that play it. I suppose we gravitate to those who are most like ourselves. In fact, most of the ones asking for this feature are ones I can honestly say are decent people who don't purposefully cause grief or drama.</p><p>It's those few obnoxious individuals who ruin the reputation of many by association.</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

<p><cite>Aeviel@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's those few obnoxious individuals who ruin the reputation of many by association.</p></blockquote><p>Am I one?!</p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Aeviel@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's those few obnoxious individuals who ruin the reputation of many by association.</p></blockquote><p>Am I one?!</p></blockquote><p>yes</p>

[Notsovilepriest]

Sweet!

[Dontar]

<p>Not sure if anyone said this yet.</p><p>On the Pvp severs you can have evil Pally's & good Necro's.</p><p>that breaks all the PvE server rules, so due to that I would say no to any transfers.</p>

[threat111]

<p><cite>Dontar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Not sure if anyone said this yet.</p><p>On the Pvp severs you can have evil Pally's & good Necro's.</p><p>that breaks all the PvE server rules, so due to that I would say no to any transfers.</p></blockquote><p>takes 30 mins to betray and you dont lose your masters for doing it anymore.  If there were some alignment issues its easily fixxed prior to a transfer.</p>

[Gisallo]

As I said before I know the peeps in this thread would not mind losing gear, but some would as would be required by a transfer. Other's would cry about having to betray or move to new aligned city. There are PvEers that would have issue just on principle. As SoE has a long history of not doing things that would po a vocal minority the chances of it happening anytime soon are slim. The reason they aren't moving my server is because a minority don't want to lose th RP tag and are very defensive and emotional about it and they fear the reaction of such an influx of players on the AB population. While those posting here many not get emotional about such issues that doesn't mean others won't and that SOE simply finds it to be safer doing nothing on occassion. As for the last thing involving PVEers this is the fault of everyone. Soe said no PvP during developement then introduced it. The changes to the game to accommodate PvP in the early years caused more than a little consternation to PvEers. The bluebie comments when people complained made thi even worse. Then BG comes along and during its launch pressing PvE issues were put on the back burner for a time. Whether right or wrong this created animosity with many and paranoia with some. I speak to some who are fear full that a PvE PvP merge would be followed shortly by "make portions of overland zones PvP", "make contested dungeons PvP" etc.

[WeatherMan]

<p><cite>Galibier@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite></p><blockquote> I speak to some who are fear full that a PvE PvP merge would be followed shortly by "make portions of overland zones PvP", "make contested dungeons PvP" etc. </blockquote><p>Nah...won't happen.</p><p>Total up all the PvP servers - two, and one of those is slowly choking under the Livegamer quicksand.  Total all the rest up - even just the North American servers - and that's a lot of potentially torqued-off individuals.  No one's going to risk that - losing their PvP base would be far less damaging to their bottom line than seeing over half their bluebie population depart in an infuriated exodus.  A stunt like that smacks of NGE, and they know it.</p>

[ThomasCH]

<p>Um. If a PvP to PvE was allowed it would be vice versa. So yeah, PvP will lose players but they will gain players as well. I dont see your point.</p><p>As for some people being unhappy about losing their PvP gear during a transfer. Well, what does that matter? This is optional, you are not forced to go to PvE and you are not forced to go to PvP.</p><p>As for people being able to have classes/races on either side on PvP. Seriously, are you really gonna use that as a reason as for why you dont want us to have this in EQ2?</p><p>Yeah, because there is not soooo many ways that, that could easily be fixed <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Ive seen a red name saying that they are discussion it, I have heard it being brought up at the latest fan faire by a red name. Thats more than enough reason to keep asking for this to go through.</p><p>We just want the same option as everyone else.</p>

[WeatherMan]

<p>If you were addressing that to me, Thomas, allow me to clarify something:</p><p>I was responding to Galibier's fears that SOE would turn parts of PvE <em>servers</em> into PvP <em>zones</em>.  <em><strong>That</strong></em>, specifically, is what I was saying would never happen, not that transfers and merges would never occur.</p><p>Now, if you were responding to Galibier, ignore this, and return to the discussion.  ;p</p>

[Kenazeer]

<p>Let them come I say (at least on the non-LG PvP servers) and bring only those items that have also existed on the regular servers.</p>

[Gisallo]

<p><cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If you were addressing that to me, Thomas, allow me to clarify something:</p><p>I was responding to Galibier's fears that SOE would turn parts of PvE <em>servers</em> into PvP <em>zones</em>.  <em><strong>That</strong></em>, specifically, is what I was saying would never happen, not that transfers and merges would never occur.</p><p>Now, if you were responding to Galibier, ignore this, and return to the discussion.  ;p</p></blockquote><p>Thats why I called it Paranoia, which is typically baseless in its origins and fear.  How many times have we seen someone complain about a change on the PvE side and simply ASSUME that it was due to a PvP complaint?  Sometime it is true, at least it was back in the day, but slowly SOE became more willing to have more PvP only changes rather than trying to keep such changes to a minimum.  There are also people that still rail on occasion about why time is even spent on OvO fixes when they are clearly the smallest portion of the player base.  All of this engenders a baseless paranoia that causes a lot of EMO.  my point was simply to say that SOE often doesn't care about the actual reality of things but the Emo of the player base, regardless of whether or not that emo is actually valid.  This trend of SOE is what will prevent the mergers asked for in this thread, at least in the short term.  </p>

[ThomasCH]

<p>Maybe they can make it a LoN loot card. You know, kinda like they did with the unattune item that everyone asked for to be put in the marketplace <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Neiloch]

<p>so from the sounds of it, it looks like the people who liked the PvP servers aren't pleased with PvP server changes. So now their mindset more closely resembles a PvE server playstyle and not a PvP one, at least in regards to EQ2. they are stuck on a server they no longer enjoy and left with only grim options.</p><p>Someone else already pointed it out, its already being done in a certain capacity. People are transferring to PvE from PvP, its just a EQ2X PvE server.</p><p>Should just allow it and make any "pvp server only" items go *poof* in the transfer, and don't allow transfer of certain characters until alignment issues are resolved (evil paladin becoming good, good necro becoming evil, etc).</p>

[WeatherMan]

<p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Should just allow it and make any "pvp server only" items go *poof* in the transfer, and don't allow transfer of certain characters until alignment issues are resolved (evil paladin becoming good, good necro becoming evil, etc).</p></blockquote><p>And this, class, is the essence of how it should be.  I see no reason that people would object to the idea, if it is done as stated right here.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>My only question is if it's possible. I know that technology and coding has improved since then, but in EQlive, PVP and PVE players were coded so that it wasn't really possible for the two of them to interact well with each other.</p><p>What I mean is, because of that Tome of Discord, any player on a PVE server could change themselves to PVP, but they couldn't change back. On the Rallos Zek server, everyone is hard-coded to be a PVP player right from the start, so if it were possible to move from the Zek server to another, they would still be set for PVP.</p><p>I wonder if it's possible to change that these days? Let a PVP player move off the server, and just live as a normal character like everyone else on the server they moved to?</p>

[ThomasCH]

<p>It is 100% possible and the reason that I use the 100% is because it was confirmed by Rothgar himself.</p>