GH lost XP [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

CoLD MeTaL

10-12-2010, 05:28 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I appreciate that overall getting to level 90 will be smoother than before.However, are you saying that the next 100% to level 56 will take the same amount of time, or less, to reach level 56 when we only needed 35% before today? If not, we have lost progress.</blockquote>...Really?Did you even read what Rothgar said?</blockquote>Did you? Because she paraphrased it perfectly. Unless 100% is now less than what 35% was she lost ground. Instead of evening out the levels, they should have subtracted the 'extra' long levels from the total. That they were even uneven to begin with is just bizarre.<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>..This might result in your progress bar being less than what it was, but the amount of XP needed to gain your next level will actually be less than what it was before.</blockquote>

Slowin

10-12-2010, 05:34 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>In all cases, guilds will gain XP even though your progress bar went down.We adjusted the leveling curve and some levels now require less XP in order to gain them. This might result in your progress bar being less than what it was, but the amount of XP needed to gain your next level will actually be less than what it was before.</blockquote>Is there really another way to say it? lolz.

Te'ana

10-12-2010, 05:40 PM

Please paraphrase/explain it to us, we seem to not be reading this the way you do.

PlaneCrazy

10-12-2010, 05:41 PM

<cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I appreciate that overall getting to level 90 will be smoother than before.However, are you saying that the next 100% to level 56 will take the same amount of time, or less, to reach level 56 when we only needed 35% before today? If not, we have lost progress.</blockquote>Read Jaye's post... she explains it well.....<cite>Jaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Think of it like this-Old levels and xp needed:52..............!..53.....54....55....56......*... ....57.........58New levels and xp needed:52.........53.!........54.........55........56*... ....57.........58If your guild is the ! you gained a level without getting any more xp!If your guild is the * you may look like you lost ground, but really you're asclose to the next level as you were before.Edited because I fail at picture making <img src="../images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The path to 90 is NOT linear... no matter what they changed, you are still on the same spot on that path... it's just the divisions that have changed.

Crismorn

10-12-2010, 05:41 PM

<cite>CoLD MeTaL wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I appreciate that overall getting to level 90 will be smoother than before.However, are you saying that the next 100% to level 56 will take the same amount of time, or less, to reach level 56 when we only needed 35% before today? If not, we have lost progress.</blockquote>...Really?Did you even read what Rothgar said?</blockquote>Did you? Because she paraphrased it perfectly. Unless 100% is now less than what 35% was she lost ground. Instead of evening out the levels, they should have subtracted the 'extra' long levels from the total. That they were even uneven to begin with is just bizarre.<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>..This might result in your progress bar being less than what it was, but the amount of XP needed to gain your next level will actually be less than what it was before.</blockquote></blockquote>I'm sorry that the colored line for xp looks different, but you now need less to fill it then you did before.Hopefully that cures your confusion.

Rothgar

10-12-2010, 05:41 PM

<cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It took my guild a month to get to 65% of 55. If this is better, will we move 100% to level 56 in the time it would have taken to get that last 35% to level 56? If not, then we have lost progress.</blockquote>Yes, basically that's it. Your XP value behind the scenes, which is some number like 183627, did not change unless your level would have gone down. For example, that number may have put you at 54 prior to the change but would now put you at 52. In this case, we added XP to the number to increase you to level 54 but it would look like you lost progress in 54 when in fact you would have been 52 on the new curve. The total amount of XP needed to get to 90 was lessened, so you are now further along than you would have been before.In some cases, depending on where you were in the curve, you just passed a hell level and will now be further along than you were before.Regardless of what the progress bar shows, when you reach level 90, everyone will have put in the same amount of work. It just depends on whether or not you've already been through the "hell levels".I'm really sorry this is confusing and looks like you've lost XP, but everyone should have benefited from this change in the long run.If its not already as clear as mud, to summarize:If your guild looks like you lost XP on the progress bar, you were one of the guilds who had XP added to get you up to your old level when you would have been behind.If your guild gained levels after this, you unfortunately didn't receive any "free xp", but since you just went through a hell level that required more XP than the other levels, you now are higher than you were before.

Te'ana

10-12-2010, 05:50 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It took my guild a month to get to 65% of 55. If this is better, will we move 100% to level 56 in the time it would have taken to get that last 35% to level 56? If not, then we have lost progress.</blockquote>Yes, basically that's it. Your XP value behind the scenes, which is some number like 183627, did not change unless your level would have gone down. For example, that number may have put you at 54 prior to the change but would now put you at 52. In this case, we added XP to the number to increase you to level 54 but it would look like you lost progress in 54 when in fact you would have been 52 on the new curve. The total amount of XP needed to get to 90 was lessened, so you are now further along than you would have been before.In some cases, depending on where you were in the curve, you just passed a hell level and will now be further along than you were before.Regardless of what the progress bar shows, when you reach level 90, everyone will have put in the same amount of work. It just depends on whether or not you've already been through the "hell levels".I'm really sorry this is confusing and looks like you've lost XP, but everyone should have benefited from this change in the long run.If its not already as clear as mud, to summarize:If your guild looks like you lost XP on the progress bar, you were one of the guilds who had XP added to get you up to your old level when you would have been behind.If your guild gained levels after this, you unfortunately didn't receive any "free xp", but since you just went through a hell level that required more XP than the other levels, you now are higher than you were before.</blockquote>I do appreciate that getting to 90 will be much better than before and I am glad you didn't make us lose levels down to 52!!!. I know you made the changes for the overall betterment of the game and I am cool with that.

Snowdonia

10-12-2010, 06:08 PM

Rothgar,Due to the smoothing, my guild on EQIIX gained around 3 levels (went from about 90% into 34 to 40% into 37). The problem we're faced with now is that, there are no "events" in the Events tab detailing those levels. This is a problem because those were the only events thus far that we were locking for the guild.Is there some way of fixing this or giving us those event records back? I truly hope so because as of now, there is going to be a big hole in our guild leveling progress. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />

Zaldor

10-12-2010, 07:01 PM

Woot! My alt guild picked up 4 levels overnight...pretty sweet.

Cyliena

10-12-2010, 07:17 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It took my guild a month to get to 65% of 55. If this is better, will we move 100% to level 56 in the time it would have taken to get that last 35% to level 56? If not, then we have lost progress.</blockquote>Yes, basically that's it. Your XP value behind the scenes, which is some number like 183627, did not change unless your level would have gone down. For example, that number may have put you at 54 prior to the change but would now put you at 52. In this case, we added XP to the number to increase you to level 54 but it would look like you lost progress in 54 when in fact you would have been 52 on the new curve. The total amount of XP needed to get to 90 was lessened, so you are now further along than you would have been before.In some cases, depending on where you were in the curve, you just passed a hell level and will now be further along than you were before.Regardless of what the progress bar shows, when you reach level 90, everyone will have put in the same amount of work. It just depends on whether or not you've already been through the "hell levels".I'm really sorry this is confusing and looks like you've lost XP, but everyone should have benefited from this change in the long run.If its not already as clear as mud, to summarize:If your guild looks like you lost XP on the progress bar, you were one of the guilds who had XP added to get you up to your old level when you would have been behind.If your guild gained levels after this, you unfortunately didn't receive any "free xp", but since you just went through a hell level that required more XP than the other levels, you now are higher than you were before.</blockquote>Thanks Rothgar, that's an awesome explanation of it. I much prefer it this way then the horror stories of people losing multiple guild levels from Test anyways. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" />

Hirofortis

10-12-2010, 07:27 PM

Rothgar

10-12-2010, 07:50 PM

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rothgar,Due to the smoothing, my guild on EQIIX gained around 3 levels (went from about 90% into 34 to 40% into 37). The problem we're faced with now is that, there are no "events" in the Events tab detailing those levels. This is a problem because those were the only events thus far that we were locking for the guild.Is there some way of fixing this or giving us those event records back? I truly hope so because as of now, there is going to be a big hole in our guild leveling progress. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Unfortunately events are only generated when a player gains guild XP causing the guild to go up a level. The gaining of levels through adjusting the XP curve did not generate any events so there is no way to bring them back.

Cabral

10-12-2010, 09:26 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It took my guild a month to get to 65% of 55. If this is better, will we move 100% to level 56 in the time it would have taken to get that last 35% to level 56? If not, then we have lost progress.</blockquote>Yes, basically that's it. Your XP value behind the scenes, which is some number like 183627, did not change unless your level would have gone down. For example, that number may have put you at 54 prior to the change but would now put you at 52. In this case, we added XP to the number to increase you to level 54 but it would look like you lost progress in 54 when in fact you would have been 52 on the new curve. The total amount of XP needed to get to 90 was lessened, so you are now further along than you would have been before.In some cases, depending on where you were in the curve, you just passed a hell level and will now be further along than you were before.Regardless of what the progress bar shows, when you reach level 90, everyone will have put in the same amount of work. It just depends on whether or not you've already been through the "hell levels".I'm really sorry this is confusing and looks like you've lost XP, but everyone should have benefited from this change in the long run.If its not already as clear as mud, to summarize:If your guild looks like you lost XP on the progress bar, you were one of the guilds who had XP added to get you up to your old level when you would have been behind.If your guild gained levels after this, you unfortunately didn't receive any "free xp", but since you just went through a hell level that required more XP than the other levels, you now are higher than you were before.</blockquote>Unguilded on Kithicor lost approximately 90% experience towards level 54. Now instead of being a little over 1 level away from extra amenities, you've made it 2 levels and turned 53 into a hell level. If you had announced your intention to distribute the "Hell" down to the lower level guilds, we could've pushed for that last 10% to get 54. It is not sufficient that we did not lose guild level, we should not have lost our progress towards the next guild level. You have no idea how demoralizing it is to be pushed that far from an immediate goal.It's not confusing, it's a demonstration of the lack of concern for the casual players and guilds. Our goals are not to race to 90. It's the next guild level or the next offering of amenities. You may have made 90 easier to reach but if everyone is too disheartened by the loss of nearly a full guild level to continue, you have achieved the opposite of your stated goal.

MyleeSilverwings

10-12-2010, 11:46 PM

My little family guild (2 members only) was at level 50, with 95% exp. Only 5% left to ding 51. That 95% exp was gained through HOURS of doing writs and by turning in all the city tokens and leveling items.I understand the math, and I understand your intent. I know what hell levels are ... I endured them in EQ1 for years. I think in the long run this will probably be a really good thing ... for the LARGER guilds!Our intent was never to race to 90, we were happy gaining a level every month or two, if that.Now, we have to redo all the progress that we lost due to this change (and yes, for today (not the future) we did indeed LOSE!!!What really should have taken place, Rothgar, is a BOLD warning that this change was coming and how it would affect us. Not all of us have the time in our real lives to be on TEST, or even read the TEST update notes. We simply play the game. Had we received this warning, we would have saved ourselves a ton of work, and all the items we turned in, and all the heritage quests we did (which can never be redone for guild status <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" />Shame on you! This just makes me sick!

CraigH

10-12-2010, 11:50 PM

Mine lost about 50% of a level.

Te'ana

10-13-2010, 12:37 AM

My husband and I did a test run and found that XP was running about 300% over what it had been at level 55, but I agree that falling back is very demoralizing. We certainly lost momentum, even though we verified that it would be just as fast to get to level 56. Negative numbers can be so depressing <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

angryaboutguildlevel

10-13-2010, 12:55 AM

Ok I have a level 59 guild. Last night I was at 60% into level. I put in almost 60 hours of work by myself to get to that part over the last month. Today I log in and I am at 0% to level. Yesterday a level 89 crafting writ gave .3% to every level today they give .4%. So for me to make up the 60% that you took away I only need to put in 52 more hours to make up what I had yesterday. Before you give a smart alic anwser of saying that "you should be greatful we didn't delevel you" So I am suppose to be greatful that you all gave .1% more per writ and took away 60% and 60 hours of hard work in a month. Guess what I AM NOT GREATFUL.............. I understand u say it will take the same amout of time but I have done the math with just the .1% more I am still loosing hours of hard work. I find this is extremely unfair and poorly thought out. I am on the verge of cancelling all my accounts over this because I feel you alll just invalidated what I have worked so hard for the last month. I could of in the last month rested on my laurals and still be at 0% to 60 right where I am today but instead I worked hard for 60 hours to be at the same result. But yet I didnt loose anything ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?

Eritius

10-13-2010, 01:12 AM

<cite>angryaboutguildlevel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I have a level 59 guild. Last night I was at 60% into level. I put in almost 60 hours of work by myself to get to that part over the last month. Today I log in and I am at 0% to level. Yesterday a level 89 crafting writ gave .3% to every level today they give .4%. So for me to make up the 60% that you took away I only need to put in 52 more hours to make up what I had yesterday. Before you give a smart alic anwser of saying that "you should be greatful we didn't delevel you" So I am suppose to be greatful that you all gave .1% more per writ and took away 60% and 60 hours of hard work in a month. Guess what I AM NOT GREATFUL.............. I understand u say it will take the same amout of time but I have done the math with just the .1% more I am still loosing hours of hard work. I find this is extremely unfair and poorly thought out. I am on the verge of cancelling all my accounts over this because I feel you alll just invalidated what I have worked so hard for the last month. I could of in the last month rested on my laurals and still be at 0% to 60 right where I am today but instead I worked hard for 60 hours to be at the same result. But yet I didnt loose anything ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?</blockquote>You still need the same amount of exp for the Guild Level to reach 90 as you did prepatch. Say you need 10 million Status to reach 90 (for the sake of arguement lets agree this is true). Guild is 59 in your case. Lets say you had 7.5 million status total. Before it took 8 million to be level 60. Now it takes 8.5 million but 59 takes 7.5 million which is why you're at 0%. However like before you still only need 2.5 to go to get max level.Yes these aren't the real values, but it shows an example of what happened.

erin

10-13-2010, 01:12 AM

<cite>angryaboutguildlevel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I have a level 59 guild. Last night I was at 60% into level. I put in almost 60 hours of work by myself to get to that part over the last month. Today I log in and I am at 0% to level. Yesterday a level 89 crafting writ gave .3% to every level today they give .4%. So for me to make up the 60% that you took away I only need to put in 52 more hours to make up what I had yesterday. Before you give a smart alic anwser of saying that "you should be greatful we didn't delevel you" So I am suppose to be greatful that you all gave .1% more per writ and took away 60% and 60 hours of hard work in a month. Guess what I AM NOT GREATFUL.............. I understand u say it will take the same amout of time but I have done the math with just the .1% more I am still loosing hours of hard work. I find this is extremely unfair and poorly thought out. I am on the verge of cancelling all my accounts over this because I feel you alll just invalidated what I have worked so hard for the last month. I could of in the last month rested on my laurals and still be at 0% to 60 right where I am today but instead I worked hard for 60 hours to be at the same result. But yet I didnt loose anything ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?</blockquote>Same here. Back to 60 with 0%. Very very demoralizing. Only word that really fits the sheer dissapointment I'm feeling. I get the explanation but it sure doesn't make this sting any less. And if what you say about the writs is true, that's even worse <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

angryaboutguildlevel

10-13-2010, 01:19 AM

I understand on paper I didnt loose anything but in reality I lost a month of hard work. You all were so kind (lolz) not to delevel anyone. So instead you punish us that worked hard over the last month. I get that its the same amount of status to get to 90. I am a guild of 1 person who has way to many alts and accounts. So will probablly never see 90. I wanted to hit 60 to spend more plat and status to get amenities. With the way I do writs and status runs I would of been 60 in 12 days. Yes I know this I am very very insistant of keeping track of what I do. Today It will be about 39 days of hard work t get to the same spot that yesterday would of taken me 12 days. So yes on paper I didnt loose anything. But the real question is soe going to lose anyting if I leave the game over this? 3 accounts is nothing to soe. My feeling is they just dont care.

Eritius

10-13-2010, 01:24 AM

I understand where you are coming from. But what I don't understand is why you need level 60 on a solo guild. I'm in a guild on my necromancer that is level 55 or 56 and we have 15/17 amenities used. We don't really know what to use the last two on.I can't imagine what just one person would do with 20 amentities to themself.

Te'ana

10-13-2010, 01:26 AM

I don't think they really thought this through completely. Yes they did not delevel us, which shows they did know the new curve would affect us, but I still think we should have retained whatever progress point we were on before the update. Even though in my case I won't really lose out, I really sympathize with those of you who are looking at MUCH more work to level up to the point you were at before the game update.

angryaboutguildlevel

10-13-2010, 01:28 AM

It really doesnt matter why I wanted to hit 60 I just wanted to.

Aphraael

10-13-2010, 01:28 AM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>angryaboutguildlevel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I have a level 59 guild. Last night I was at 60% into level. I put in almost 60 hours of work by myself to get to that part over the last month. Today I log in and I am at 0% to level. Yesterday a level 89 crafting writ gave .3% to every level today they give .4%. So for me to make up the 60% that you took away I only need to put in 52 more hours to make up what I had yesterday. Before you give a smart alic anwser of saying that "you should be greatful we didn't delevel you" So I am suppose to be greatful that you all gave .1% more per writ and took away 60% and 60 hours of hard work in a month. Guess what I AM NOT GREATFUL.............. I understand u say it will take the same amout of time but I have done the math with just the .1% more I am still loosing hours of hard work. I find this is extremely unfair and poorly thought out. I am on the verge of cancelling all my accounts over this because I feel you alll just invalidated what I have worked so hard for the last month. I could of in the last month rested on my laurals and still be at 0% to 60 right where I am today but instead I worked hard for 60 hours to be at the same result. But yet I didnt loose anything ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?</blockquote>You still need the same amount of exp for the Guild Level to reach 90 as you did prepatch. Say you need 10 million Status to reach 90 (for the sake of arguement lets agree this is true). Guild is 59 in your case. Lets say you had 7.5 million status total. Before it took 8 million to be level 60. Now it takes 8.5 million but 59 takes 7.5 million which is why you're at 0%. However like before you still only need 2.5 to go to get max level.Yes these aren't the real values, but it shows an example of what happened.</blockquote>EXCEPT, some of us have no interest in ever reaching 90. We are small guilds even one person ones, that just want a certain level. To look at the big picture is a loss for us. Very disappointed.I understand what they are saying they did. Please noone reexplain it for me. I also understand what it means for me as the only active person in my guild. I LOST no matter how they coat it.

Mikai

10-13-2010, 01:33 AM

Ok......from what I understand, no one lost anything at all. It may seem you were closer to 60, 70, 90, before, but in all honesty, you weren't any closer than you are today. In truth, you are actually closer since, SOE in their wisdom (yes, stifling a laugh here) actually gave you MORE xp if you would have been deleveled.Let's say, for the sake of argument, last night you had 2,000,000 xp to hit 90. you were 10% through 89 last night, but on the new curve you were, say 40,000 xp from hitting 89. SOE gave you that 40,000 so you would still be 89. Now you only have to "grind" 1,960,000 to hit 90.It was inevitable that some guilds would "lose" levels and some would gain, but in an effort to play nice, SOE prevented you from losing levels, so you wouldn't be upset. They gave you xp you didn't earn so you couldn't say something was taken from you. You're going to complain about where on the curve you fall when, in the long run, you have to earn less status anyway?People need something to complain about, I guess.

MyleeSilverwings

10-13-2010, 01:38 AM

Reiterating from my previous post ... I just turned in 45 status items, and did one writ, and now I have 2.3% into level, whereas last night I had 95% into level. Hours and hours and hours of work down the drain, with hours and hours and hours facing me to regain what I had.Any way you care to slice this, it is a cruel slap in the face to those of us with small guilds. You took away what we rightfully earned.

angryaboutguildlevel

10-13-2010, 01:46 AM

I understand on paper this makes sense. I understand in SOE's eyes I didnt loose anything and they did us a favor. [Removed for Content] In the long run yes I can get to 90 but I dont care about getting to 90 I just wanted to hit 60. I was 12 days away. Now I am 42 days away. I don't understand why you wouldnt be upset in the same shoes. 1 person leveling a guild working at it everyday for the past month plus. I was down to 12 days of work before I never did a writ again. Now I am back to 42 days of work at .4 guild exp per writ.I get what they did I just dont think they really thought it threw and I really dont like the new system. I get we got the same amount of exp but the simple fact of the matter I was at 60% yesterday today I am at 0% I still need 100% to level. Last time I went to school 60 to 0 is a lose of 60. You young folks and your new math I guess. Why not just make people who made guilds from today on be on the new improved system and leave the rest of us where we were at. In anyway you slice it 60 to 0 is a lose. The overall picture its not I GET THAT. Its not the point

Te'ana

10-13-2010, 01:50 AM

<cite>Kaidia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok......from what I understand, no one lost anything at all. It may seem you were closer to 60, 70, 90, before, but in all honesty, you weren't any closer than you are today. In truth, you are actually closer since, SOE in their wisdom (yes, stifling a laugh here) actually gave you MORE xp if you would have been deleveled.Let's say, for the sake of argument, last night you had 2,000,000 xp to hit 90. you were 10% through 89 last night, but on the new curve you were, say 40,000 xp from hitting 89. SOE gave you that 40,000 so you would still be 89. Now you only have to "grind" 1,960,000 to hit 90.It was inevitable that some guilds would "lose" levels and some would gain, but in an effort to play nice, SOE prevented you from losing levels, so you wouldn't be upset. They gave you xp you didn't earn so you couldn't say something was taken from you. You're going to complain about where on the curve you fall when, in the long run, you have to earn less status anyway?People need something to complain about, I guess.</blockquote>Those of who lost progress were playing by the rules we had to live by and did all we were expected to to accomplish our goals. We truly earned our progress, the old fashioned way, via hard work. Today the game changed and our hard work under the old rules was negated. It matters not that the path to level 90 is smoother, we still lost out because the goals we were aiming for shifted and left many guilds behind the new curve.You don't seem to understand that for small guilds this can be quite devastating. To demean the very real concerns expressed here reveals a callous nature that does not understand the quality of mercy.

Aphraael

10-13-2010, 02:01 AM

<cite>Kaidia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok......from what I understand, no one lost anything at all. It may seem you were closer to 60, 70, 90, before, but in all honesty, you weren't any closer than you are today. In truth, you are actually closer since, SOE in their wisdom (yes, stifling a laugh here) actually gave you MORE xp if you would have been deleveled.Let's say, for the sake of argument, last night you had 2,000,000 xp to hit 90. you were 10% through 89 last night, but on the new curve you were, say 40,000 xp from hitting 89. SOE gave you that 40,000 so you would still be 89. Now you only have to "grind" 1,960,000 to hit 90.It was inevitable that some guilds would "lose" levels and some would gain, but in an effort to play nice, SOE prevented you from losing levels, so you wouldn't be upset. They gave you xp you didn't earn so you couldn't say something was taken from you. You're going to complain about where on the curve you fall when, in the long run, you have to earn less status anyway?People need something to complain about, I guess.</blockquote>This only applies if 90 was your goal. Some people have no interest in reaching guild level 90.Funny how there are people who think getting to max level on your char or for your guild is what everyone is after and the only way the game is played. <bogglePeople play differently and have different goals. For those of us not goal oriented to 90, we lost.Figuring what it took before this to finish my level and what it will take now to finish it. They added about 22% more for me to reach my goal of level 60. I had 32% into 59 before today. I can only imagine the poor person who had 90% in.You explaining this like we are cry babies only shows you lack the ability to see what we are saying.. We see what you are saying.. WE GET IT and it stinks unless your goal is to reach level 90.Not trying to sound like a smart --- but you need to stop being so condensending in your posts.

Xelgad

10-13-2010, 02:02 AM

<cite>angryaboutguildlevel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I have a level 59 guild. Last night I was at 60% into level. I put in almost 60 hours of work by myself to get to that part over the last month. Today I log in and I am at 0% to level. Yesterday a level 89 crafting writ gave .3% to every level today they give .4%. So for me to make up the 60% that you took away I only need to put in 52 more hours to make up what I had yesterday. Before you give a smart alic anwser of saying that "you should be greatful we didn't delevel you" So I am suppose to be greatful that you all gave .1% more per writ and took away 60% and 60 hours of hard work in a month. Guess what I AM NOT GREATFUL.............. I understand u say it will take the same amout of time but I have done the math with just the .1% more I am still loosing hours of hard work. I find this is extremely unfair and poorly thought out. I am on the verge of cancelling all my accounts over this because I feel you alll just invalidated what I have worked so hard for the last month. I could of in the last month rested on my laurals and still be at 0% to 60 right where I am today but instead I worked hard for 60 hours to be at the same result. But yet I didnt loose anything ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?</blockquote>Please be aware that the guild experience percentage is not a static value in the sense that 60% of level 59 yesterday is the same as 60% of level 59 today.Using your guild as the example:At level 59 and 60% of the way to 60, your guild's experience would be 8,856,000. You needed about 264,000 experience to get to level 60 and about 22,644,000 experience to get level 90.In the new formula, level 59 starts at 9,341,700 experience. Your guild has been set to here. You have gained 881,700 experience. You are now 20,171,600 experience away from level 90. Your guild is now 2,472,400 experience closer to level 90.If your guild wasn't capped to not lose a level, your current level would be level 57. You would have been 93% into your level.

angryaboutguildlevel

10-13-2010, 02:08 AM

I dont care about being 90. I will never have a guild to be 90. I just wanted to hit 60 to buy more stuff. Again in long run if I cared about getting to 90 you are right didnt loose anything. but when your goal is 60 and only had 40% to go now u have 100 yes i did loose something. But again SOE dont care. LOL

Aphraael

10-13-2010, 02:15 AM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>angryaboutguildlevel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I have a level 59 guild. Last night I was at 60% into level. I put in almost 60 hours of work by myself to get to that part over the last month. Today I log in and I am at 0% to level. Yesterday a level 89 crafting writ gave .3% to every level today they give .4%. So for me to make up the 60% that you took away I only need to put in 52 more hours to make up what I had yesterday. Before you give a smart alic anwser of saying that "you should be greatful we didn't delevel you" So I am suppose to be greatful that you all gave .1% more per writ and took away 60% and 60 hours of hard work in a month. Guess what I AM NOT GREATFUL.............. I understand u say it will take the same amout of time but I have done the math with just the .1% more I am still loosing hours of hard work. I find this is extremely unfair and poorly thought out. I am on the verge of cancelling all my accounts over this because I feel you alll just invalidated what I have worked so hard for the last month. I could of in the last month rested on my laurals and still be at 0% to 60 right where I am today but instead I worked hard for 60 hours to be at the same result. But yet I didnt loose anything ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?</blockquote>Please be aware that the guild experience percentage is not a static value in the sense that 60% of level 59 yesterday is the same as 60% of level 59 today.Using your guild as the example:At level 59 and 60% of the way to 60, your guild's experience would be 8,856,000. You needed about 264,000 experience to get to level 60 and about 22,644,000 experience to get level 90.In the new formula, level 59 starts at 9,341,700 experience. Your guild has been set to here. You have gained 881,700 experience. You are now 20,171,600 experience away from level 90. Your guild is now 2,472,400 experience closer to level 90.If your guild wasn't capped to not lose a level, your current level would be level 57. You would have been 93% into your level.</blockquote>Makes me sad to see a designer with the almighty Level 90 mentality also.. Just know some of the best in this game is pre 90 anything chars or guilds for some people.Those of us not on the 90 bandwagon were set back from what we had planned on by the then existing game mechanics. The new change is hard to swallow. We are having it spoon fed to us and have to accept it or quit, but we don't have to like it or be treated as if we don't understand what happened to us.

Mikai

10-13-2010, 02:53 AM

<cite>Lndi@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaidia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok......from what I understand, no one lost anything at all. It may seem you were closer to 60, 70, 90, before, but in all honesty, you weren't any closer than you are today. In truth, you are actually closer since, SOE in their wisdom (yes, stifling a laugh here) actually gave you MORE xp if you would have been deleveled.Let's say, for the sake of argument, last night you had 2,000,000 xp to hit 90. you were 10% through 89 last night, but on the new curve you were, say 40,000 xp from hitting 89. SOE gave you that 40,000 so you would still be 89. Now you only have to "grind" 1,960,000 to hit 90.It was inevitable that some guilds would "lose" levels and some would gain, but in an effort to play nice, SOE prevented you from losing levels, so you wouldn't be upset. They gave you xp you didn't earn so you couldn't say something was taken from you. You're going to complain about where on the curve you fall when, in the long run, you have to earn less status anyway?People need something to complain about, I guess.</blockquote>This only applies if 90 was your goal. Some people have no interest in reaching guild level 90.Funny how there are people who think getting to max level on your char or for your guild is what everyone is after and the only way the game is played.People play differently and have different goals. For those of us not goal oriented to 90, we lost.Figuring what it took before this to finish my level and what it will take now to finish it. They added about 22% more for me to reach my goal of level 60. I had 32% into 59 before today. I can only imagine the poor person who had 90% in.You explaining this like we are cry babies only shows you lack the ability to see what we are saying.. We see what you are saying.. WE GET IT and it stinks unless your goal is to reach level 90.Not trying to sound like a smart --- but you need to stop being so condensending in your posts.</blockquote>I'm trying to be understanding, I am, but the truth of the matter is when SOE makes changes that do indeed need to be done, and get nothing but crap for it, I can't understand. They were trying to get rid of the "Hell levels", which desperately needed to be done. the 50s and 60s were some of the WORST. A year and a half ago I was the leader of that level 50-something guild trying to hit 60 so we could get cloaks. It was grueling and those hell levels needed to go!Do I have sympathy for your situation? yeah. Do I think SOE screwed up? no. I think SOE did what it needed to do, and made an honest effort to keep people happy. I think SOE handled this situation well. They could have simply left ya'll at level 57 or wherever you'd end up and said "that's how much XP you had". But they didn't. They did everything reasonable to make everyone happy. The handful that weren't happy were you.Good luck with your guild.

Notsovilepriest

10-13-2010, 03:16 AM

<cite>Lndi@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>angryaboutguildlevel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I have a level 59 guild. Last night I was at 60% into level. I put in almost 60 hours of work by myself to get to that part over the last month. Today I log in and I am at 0% to level. Yesterday a level 89 crafting writ gave .3% to every level today they give .4%. So for me to make up the 60% that you took away I only need to put in 52 more hours to make up what I had yesterday. Before you give a smart alic anwser of saying that "you should be greatful we didn't delevel you" So I am suppose to be greatful that you all gave .1% more per writ and took away 60% and 60 hours of hard work in a month. Guess what I AM NOT GREATFUL.............. I understand u say it will take the same amout of time but I have done the math with just the .1% more I am still loosing hours of hard work. I find this is extremely unfair and poorly thought out. I am on the verge of cancelling all my accounts over this because I feel you alll just invalidated what I have worked so hard for the last month. I could of in the last month rested on my laurals and still be at 0% to 60 right where I am today but instead I worked hard for 60 hours to be at the same result. But yet I didnt loose anything ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?</blockquote>Please be aware that the guild experience percentage is not a static value in the sense that 60% of level 59 yesterday is the same as 60% of level 59 today.Using your guild as the example:At level 59 and 60% of the way to 60, your guild's experience would be 8,856,000. You needed about 264,000 experience to get to level 60 and about 22,644,000 experience to get level 90.In the new formula, level 59 starts at 9,341,700 experience. Your guild has been set to here. You have gained 881,700 experience. You are now 20,171,600 experience away from level 90. Your guild is now 2,472,400 experience closer to level 90.If your guild wasn't capped to not lose a level, your current level would be level 57. You would have been 93% into your level.</blockquote>Makes me sad to see a designer with the almighty Level 90 mentality also.. Just know some of the best in this game is pre 90 anything chars or guilds for some people.Those of us not on the 90 bandwagon were set back from what we had planned on by the then existing game mechanics. The new change is hard to swallow. We are having it spoon fed to us and have to accept it or quit, but we don't have to like it or be treated as if we don't understand what happened to us.</blockquote>Vast majority of players do value max level, some just take it slower than others. I don't get why anyone would pay for this game to not see so much of the content by not going max level personally

ratdeath

10-13-2010, 03:49 AM

Squeek!We are small ratonga only guild who have (3-4 active players) who have had no rush to get to guild level 90 but yesterday (EU) we were at level 59 and 55% towards level 60, which is our current main goal, more bank slots and my first worry was that it would take the fun away from actually ding ingame but now it seems we will be at 59 and 0% towards 60.To get from 59 with 0% progress towards 60 we need to do less guild writs (with the new level curve) compared to being at level 59 with 55% progress towards 60 using the old level curve?If we need to do more writs to get guild level 60 we have lost progress, as it will take us longer to get to guild level 60.So I can understand if people are upset if they have lost progress towards the next level, even if they have less guild status to grind towards level 90 in the long run.

Aphraael

10-13-2010, 03:55 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lndi@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>angryaboutguildlevel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I have a level 59 guild. Last night I was at 60% into level. I put in almost 60 hours of work by myself to get to that part over the last month. Today I log in and I am at 0% to level. Yesterday a level 89 crafting writ gave .3% to every level today they give .4%. So for me to make up the 60% that you took away I only need to put in 52 more hours to make up what I had yesterday. Before you give a smart alic anwser of saying that "you should be greatful we didn't delevel you" So I am suppose to be greatful that you all gave .1% more per writ and took away 60% and 60 hours of hard work in a month. Guess what I AM NOT GREATFUL.............. I understand u say it will take the same amout of time but I have done the math with just the .1% more I am still loosing hours of hard work. I find this is extremely unfair and poorly thought out. I am on the verge of cancelling all my accounts over this because I feel you alll just invalidated what I have worked so hard for the last month. I could of in the last month rested on my laurals and still be at 0% to 60 right where I am today but instead I worked hard for 60 hours to be at the same result. But yet I didnt loose anything ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?</blockquote>Please be aware that the guild experience percentage is not a static value in the sense that 60% of level 59 yesterday is the same as 60% of level 59 today.Using your guild as the example:At level 59 and 60% of the way to 60, your guild's experience would be 8,856,000. You needed about 264,000 experience to get to level 60 and about 22,644,000 experience to get level 90.In the new formula, level 59 starts at 9,341,700 experience. Your guild has been set to here. You have gained 881,700 experience. You are now 20,171,600 experience away from level 90. Your guild is now 2,472,400 experience closer to level 90.If your guild wasn't capped to not lose a level, your current level would be level 57. You would have been 93% into your level.</blockquote>Makes me sad to see a designer with the almighty Level 90 mentality also.. Just know some of the best in this game is pre 90 anything chars or guilds for some people.Those of us not on the 90 bandwagon were set back from what we had planned on by the then existing game mechanics. The new change is hard to swallow. We are having it spoon fed to us and have to accept it or quit, but we don't have to like it or be treated as if we don't understand what happened to us.</blockquote>Vast majority of players do value max level, some just take it slower than others. I don't get why anyone would pay for this game to not see so much of the content by not going max level personally</blockquote>I have max levels also..Max AA, all the pvp gear, disc etc etc, only thing I don't have is raid gear and that is because I make a choice not to raid all the time. I did that for years in eq1 and WoW.. Maybe someday there will be an laid back occasional raid thing, Might do that.What I have seen in my exp is getting to the end game is for the most part just that. The End. Finding other goals and things to do is what keeps you in the game. I think everyone should eventually make end game just to see it etc, just be rdy to be bored if nothing else matters to you in the game. Be it raiding or otherwise. I like to pvp and I like to decorate. If I just had the end game I would not be in the game.I am as excited about a new event as new equip, maybe more so. Developers need to think past the end game or like I said it is the end for a lot of people. Keeping them there past that is the true accomplishment. If you do that then you have lots to hold people all along the way.Discounting those not in the rush to hit end game anything is a shame.No Idea how this works when you change personna but this is Lndi aka Aphraael. Don't post a lot so when I do it means something to me <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> This means something to me. My guild people have left for the most part leaving me alone. I keep holding on waiting for something to happen to bring them back for more than a few weeks. So where my goals are was hurt in this. Just wanting to let them know they did not think of the big players picture while putting in their big picture is all.The really big picture is seeing past 90 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

ratdeath

10-13-2010, 04:17 AM

Done right you should instead of capped a 0% of the level you were at you should have put everyone at like 95-99% in their current level and then applied the new XP curve on it (adjusting the total ammount of XP for that progress).People would have maybe lost a few %, most would hopefully have gained progress, everyone would have been able to be login, grab a few writs and ding the guild while being there and had lots of cheese and wine, compared to just login and be "lowered" or raised.

Sennyu

10-13-2010, 05:42 AM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>angryaboutguildlevel wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ok I have a level 59 guild. Last night I was at 60% into level. I put in almost 60 hours of work by myself to get to that part over the last month. Today I log in and I am at 0% to level. Yesterday a level 89 crafting writ gave .3% to every level today they give .4%. So for me to make up the 60% that you took away I only need to put in 52 more hours to make up what I had yesterday. Before you give a smart alic anwser of saying that "you should be greatful we didn't delevel you" So I am suppose to be greatful that you all gave .1% more per writ and took away 60% and 60 hours of hard work in a month. Guess what I AM NOT GREATFUL.............. I understand u say it will take the same amout of time but I have done the math with just the .1% more I am still loosing hours of hard work. I find this is extremely unfair and poorly thought out. I am on the verge of cancelling all my accounts over this because I feel you alll just invalidated what I have worked so hard for the last month. I could of in the last month rested on my laurals and still be at 0% to 60 right where I am today but instead I worked hard for 60 hours to be at the same result. But yet I didnt loose anything ARE YOU REALLY SERIOUS?</blockquote>Please be aware that the guild experience percentage is not a static value in the sense that 60% of level 59 yesterday is the same as 60% of level 59 today.Using your guild as the example:At level 59 and 60% of the way to 60, your guild's experience would be 8,856,000. You needed about 264,000 experience to get to level 60 and about 22,644,000 experience to get level 90.In the new formula, level 59 starts at 9,341,700 experience. Your guild has been set to here. You have gained 881,700 experience. You are now 20,171,600 experience away from level 90. Your guild is now 2,472,400 experience closer to level 90.If your guild wasn't capped to not lose a level, your current level would be level 57. You would have been 93% into your level.</blockquote>wow, thats some of the most exact numbers I have seen out of SoE regarding the mechanics of the game, but definatly a situation where giving out some hard numbers were in their favor =)As far as the system is concerned however, personally I am somewhat indifferent some gained levels some lost progress(but really ninja gained it) from what I see the ones that really lucked out the guilds that were in the high 50's but only like 5% into level, they would have gained a massive amount of guild exp and never really noticed the loss of 5%. Its the guilds that were in the high 50's that were getting close to their next level that did sort of get burnt on the deal, sure they gained exp and all but watching that progress bar grow over a long period of time can be a daunting task. There was really no way "right" way of doing this, their approach probly was the best course of action for the long run thoughWhat really makes this amusing though is the ones who appear to of gained the most really gained nothing, and the ones who appear to of lost the most really gained the most.

Cabral

10-13-2010, 06:52 AM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please be aware that the guild experience percentage is not a static value in the sense that 60% of level 59 yesterday is the same as 60% of level 59 today.Using your guild as the example:At level 59 and 60% of the way to 60, your guild's experience would be 8,856,000. You needed about 264,000 experience to get to level 60 and about 22,644,000 experience to get level 90.In the new formula, level 59 starts at 9,341,700 experience. Your guild has been set to here. You have gained 881,700 experience. You are now 20,171,600 experience away from level 90. Your guild is now 2,472,400 experience closer to level 90.If your guild wasn't capped to not lose a level, your current level would be level 57. You would have been 93% into your level.</blockquote>You are still not listening.I logged in prepatch and had about 1 guild level and 10% to go until my wife and I got our small family guild up to 55 and got some new amenities. Our goals are not to get to guild level 90 and raid the underfoot. You seem to easily forget the casual players. Our goals our more immediate things, like new house items unlocked by guild level, more amenities, more bank vault space.You need to be aware that our progress towards the next guild level is the milestone we see, that drives us, not the status points we've accumulated behind the scenes. You have robbed of us of our milestone and our progress and mistakenly think we will accept yours.No. Give us back our progress. You had the initial thought correct, do not de-level anyone, but did not fully apply the principle; you should have preserved everyone in their progress towards the next guild level. 1% towards the next level or 99% (God, I hope nobody lost 99% of a level), it should be preserved.These are our milestones. These are our achievements. Do not take them away from us.

Cabral

10-13-2010, 06:52 AM

Double post. I wish I could delete my own messages.

Hawk The Slayer

10-13-2010, 08:52 AM

I too am not impressed with how this has been dealt with.My wife and i have a guild it was 92% into lvl 51 and when we log in its at 0%And yes i know if i do the maths we will have the same XP BUT how [Removed for Content] would you be to find that you are at 0% from 92% - below is the GM responseThis is GM ....... I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy with the changes to the guild experience curve. It may seem that your guild lost some experience, however it didn't. The amount of experience gained by your guild stayed the same. However, when they adjusted the amount of experience needed for guild levels, that same amount of experience would have put your guild at a lower level. Your guild's loss of percentage in the level is due to the developers adding more experience to your guild to allow it to stay at the level it was prior to the change. Our developer, Rothgar, made a very good post on our official forums outlining exactly what happened in the experience changes. You can view his post here,<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=15&topic_id=488430#5433831" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...=488430#5433831</a>. Sadly we won't be reimbursing your guild's progress in the level because there wasn't any experience lost. It was just converted to the new scale. I know that we were unable to help you out with this particular issue, but we would be happy to look at any issues you may have in the future.GM.........EverQuest IISony Online Entertainment

Jaremai

10-13-2010, 09:10 AM

Just give all guilds a bump to the next level and that will silence this overwhelming whine.I'm sure my guild "lost" about 70% on the xp bar but if we're getting bigger % bumps out of writs and HQ status contributions due to the required xp being lower.. I'm 100% fine with that. We don't NEED to be level 57 tomorrow. In fact, once we passed 50 and saw how slow the xp bar moved anyway, we resigned ourselves to not caring and let the guild ding whenever it felt like it.

Andalla

10-13-2010, 10:10 AM

Wow...just...wow...Okay, Imma gonna be blunt here. No one lost any XP, that has been said repeatedly. Yes, some people were reset to 0%, so further from a personal "Milestone". But your also closer to future "Milestones" as a result. Furthermore, Sony was considerate enough to make sure no one deleveled, so many guilds got FREE xp. FREE?!?!?!.I mean, seriously, I can understand the frustration of loosing that little sense of personal accomplishment, and for the guilds that aren't aiming for 90, yes, i can see how it could be a tad demoralizing...but you *were* planning on progressing past your currently set "Milestone", right? So you DID get something for free. But the amount of whining over getting something for FREE just because if makes something take a bit more work in the short run????Seriously, I wouldn't blame SOE if they just pulled that excess XP they gave you so you could keep your current level and de-level you a bit. I'm no SOE fanboi but for the love of all thats holy, can't you see that you DID NOT get screwed over?/rant off

Te'ana

10-13-2010, 10:36 AM

I speculate that one of the reasons guilds were not deleveled is because of the complications that would ensue from amenities that had already been purchased by guilds no longer entitled to them by virtue of their new lower level. Can you imagine the outrage from that happening?However, no matter how you cut it, no matter how fair the numbers are on paper, folks are unhappy because they see their immediate goals being squashed down like bugs at a picnic. In the immortal words of song, It's my party and I'll cry if I want to."

Illmarr

10-13-2010, 10:58 AM

Nothing pleases everyone. I've been on the unhappy side of many decisions Sony has made with mechanics changes. This is the first change I can recall where they went out of their way to mitigate the negative aspects some situations would create by not allowing Guilds to de-level. This is a good mechanics change. While hell levels make for a little community bonding in comiseration and accomplishment in putting them behind you finally, they were never worth the price for that little bit of satisfaction. I basically solo-leveled my Guild through all the hell levels between 25-30 while everyone was off playing other games. It was not fun and made my Guardian totally worthless because all he ever did leveling was solo writs.All you unfortunate folks who lost in level progress...How much worse would you feel if Sony had put in the change, not taken away one point of earned guild status and allowed you to go from 90% through 58 to 50% through 56? I get that you were so close to that new amenity you could taste it. I feel for you to have to do more short term to get it. I get that 90 is not something many smaller, casual Guilds aspire to. But unless that one single amenity was the last you'd ever planned on getting and you felt you'd win EQ2 with it I have to take your outrage as a little bit of "I want to have my cake and eat it too"

MyleeSilverwings

10-13-2010, 11:24 AM

Thank you, Xelgad, for the numbers. Your explanation made sense, and I appreciate it.However, for those of you who have played this game since launch ... remember the days when you formed a guild with "friends", you worked hard to get to level 15 to finally get that long-coveted cloak (which was the only one in the game) ... you were 5% away from that goal ... you logged in the next day to find that those "friends" had left your guild, and ... OMG your guild level had dropped to EIGHT????That is precisely what this feels like.And the reason why??? My little guild is made up of my crafters, whom I also adventure. "We" had waited to do all the heritage quests until the guild dinged 50 because we knew it was going to be tough going gaining levels from that point. So, all those lower level heritage quests were completed ... on 9 different characters ... and I got to 95% towards 51. Regardless of the math, I can never redo those heritage quests for guild status. They are gone, and so is the 95% they gave me.For those of you in this thread who are comfortably sitting at guild level 90, and are calling some of us whiners? Have some understanding and compassion, please!

PlaneCrazy

10-13-2010, 12:18 PM

<cite>angryaboutguildlevel wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont care about being 90. I will never have a guild to be 90. I just wanted to hit 60 to buy more stuff. Again in long run if I cared about getting to 90 you are right didnt loose anything. but when your goal is 60 and only had 40% to go now u have 100 yes i did loose something. But again SOE dont care. LOL</blockquote>I am just curious why you created a brand new Station Account identity to post this complaint and didn't use your current one?

Gerra

10-13-2010, 12:22 PM

<cite>Tikatika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thank you, Xelgad, for the numbers. Your explanation made sense, and I appreciate it.However, for those of you who have played this game since launch ... remember the days when you formed a guild with "friends", you worked hard to get to level 15 to finally get that long-coveted cloak (which was the only one in the game) ... you were 5% away from that goal ... you logged in the next day to find that those "friends" had left your guild, and ... OMG your guild level had dropped to EIGHT????That is precisely what this feels like.And the reason why??? My little guild is made up of my crafters, whom I also adventure. "We" had waited to do all the heritage quests until the guild dinged 50 because we knew it was going to be tough going gaining levels from that point. So, all those lower level heritage quests were completed ... on 9 different characters ... and I got to 95% towards 51. Regardless of the math, I can never redo those heritage quests for guild status. They are gone, and so is the 95% they gave me.For those of you in this thread who are comfortably sitting at guild level 90, and are calling some of us whiners? Have some understanding and compassion, please!</blockquote>Sorry but I can't be compassionate when the reality is if they hadn't given you free XP you didn't earn to keep you at your current level you'd be lvl 48 or 49 and still not be able to redo those Heritage quests.And keep in mind not all guilds got free XP. if their progress went up after the adjustment they just got what they got. So you got something others didn't. All I see is you are ungrateful for an unexpected bonus.

PlaneCrazy

10-13-2010, 12:28 PM

For all the small guilds that were in the 50-60 range (I think they were the ones who shifted back instead of forward)... I do have some sympathy for you. My own guild gained almost a level ( to just under 39).However, even if our level had decreased, I wouldn't be too upset about it. Let's face it... the Guild system in this game was not put there for the use of one or two or three players exclusively. It's a system that was designed for large groups of players and was designed with amenities and benefits geared towards that.How many of you players who are complaining of being moved back on your current level actually have the minimum 6 accounts in your guild still that you needed to create it? Honestly? I don't. I used my two accounts and my brothers and 3 strangers to create my guild and then I kicked the three strangers, just like many other 1 man guilds in this game that start up all the time.So when they want to make something better for the guild system as a whole, I am not going to complain if it negatively impacts ONE or TWO players. That's not what Guilds were created for.

Cabral

10-13-2010, 01:04 PM

<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nothing pleases everyone. I've been on the unhappy side of many decisions Sony has made with mechanics changes. This is the first change I can recall where they went out of their way to mitigate the negative aspects some situations would create by not allowing Guilds to de-level. This is a good mechanics change. While hell levels make for a little community bonding in comiseration and accomplishment in putting them behind you finally, they were never worth the price for that little bit of satisfaction. I basically solo-leveled my Guild through all the hell levels between 25-30 while everyone was off playing other games. It was not fun and made my Guardian totally worthless because all he ever did leveling was solo writs.</blockquote>They didn't remove the "Hell Levels", they distributed them down to lower level guilds where the larger number of smaller guilds would feel it. When they removed the "Hell Levels" from adventure levels, they actually reduced the experience required to level. I am not advocating that reduce the experience required to level. I am advocating that we keep our previous guild level, fractions and all.Rothgar cannot come in and say "It's okay, it will take less time to get the next level now than it would have taken to get that last 10%".If Sony had publicly announced that they would do this, that a guild could lose the progress towards the next level, then we could have prepared for it, gotten that extra 10%, that extra 5%. If we did not get to it because of life events, then it's a missed opportunity, not a demoralizing blow.Why did Sony not announce the change?Was it so that people would not stop doing writs and such for status? If so, then they decided to allow players to continue in fruitless endeavors. If you did not level the guild, you did not accomplish anything. your efforts placed you in the same position.Was it so that people did not rush to the next level to get free experience? If so, then what is wrong with a rush of activity? If so, then they consciously decided to keep the smaller guilds away from that next milestone.Or was it that it did not consider the impact on lower level guilds whose goal has never been to reach the current level cap?<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>But unless that one single amenity was the last you'd ever planned on getting and you felt you'd win EQ2 with it I have to take your outrage as a little bit of "I want to have my cake and eat it too"</blockquote>Really? Do you get that feeling of loss when Lioncourt was one of the guilds that gained levels? I don't think you intended your comment to be insulting, but some of us have very personal reasons why this is important. Personal reasons why this loss hurts more than it would in other situations. Trivializing things with your comment was mildly offensive.No matter how much you say you had 8,856,000 previously and still have at least that much now, the efforts since the guild last leveled are lost. The time spent to get us to that next batch of amenities is gone. Not only that, it will take us longer to get there than before. We would not have lost our progress if it did not take more experience to get to the same place.Preserve the guild level, fractions and all, otherwise you have discarded the work of your player base.<div><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote>How many of you players who are complaining of being moved back on your current level actually have the minimum 6 accounts in your guild still that you needed to create it? Honestly? I don't. I used my two accounts and my brothers and 3 strangers to create my guild and then I kicked the three strangers, just like many other 1 man guilds in this game that start up all the time.</blockquote></div>We normally have 6:<ol><li>My account</li><li>My second account (disabled at the moment)</li><li>My wife's account</li><li>My wife's second account</li><li>My mother-in-law's account (disabled until she can receive medical treatment to allow her to sit up for extended periods again)</li><li>A friend (disabled at the moment until budget allows for it)</li></ol>In the past, we've had my wife's cousin and his wife as well and a third account for my wife. We are not a large guild of dozens of players. We are small guild. We are a family guild.

Bratface

10-13-2010, 01:35 PM

The hell levels were not removed, they were just spread out to lower level guilds, higher levels guilds GAINED levels with this update, while guilds 50 to mid 60's lost whatever they progress they had in the level they were at.This only helped the high end guilds, the ones SOE apparently cares about if you go by the dev posts here.You want us mid level guilds to be happy? Restore our percentage of guild exp and move on from there, don't take from us to give to the higher level guilds, which is exactly what happened here, nothing was "removed", it was just moved to a different tier.The smaller guilds are the ones who have to work harder for their levels, why punish them to make life easier for the big high levels guilds? Oh right, that's the SOE way....

JoarAddam

10-13-2010, 01:43 PM

when you took hell levels out of the Character levels, most of us dinged, i don't remember anyone saying HEY, I lost a level.so what happened here? This was detrimental even to real low level guilds, so i'm not understanding how this is actually any better

Notsovilepriest

10-13-2010, 01:51 PM

Nobody lost experience, and some gained it, I don't get what the QQ is about. Over the years they already made the leveling of a guild so much easier by adding status to instances, adding large amount of writs, Etc.

Stubbswick

10-13-2010, 01:55 PM

<cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite><blockquote>when you took hell levels out of the Character levels, most of us dinged, i don't remember anyone saying HEY, I lost a level.so what happened here? This was detrimental even to real low level guilds, so i'm not understanding how this is actually any better</blockquote>I don't seem to see any guilds saying "hey I lost a level" either. Because none of them did.And actually, I do remember a fair amount of complaint and confusion back when the character levels were evened out. It sucks that some guilds appeared to go back a little bit in xp, but guild levels are all about the long haul.

Te'ana

10-13-2010, 01:58 PM

Its really quite simple, they forced the guild levels to their new curve much as a college professor forces student grades to match a bell curve, which does not always match the efforts of students. Instead they should have recognized the hard work of folks who in good faith had worked within the old system and moved forward from that point with the new numbers. But that would be harder to do. As it is they did realize that loss of guild amenities was a really bad idea and made some adjustments. For many of us the Hell levels are the new ones we are facing, not the long road to 90.One way to think of it as stealing a toy away from one child and handing it to a stranger that is passing by.

Murdo

10-13-2010, 02:08 PM

Well, I am certainly not complaining. Our guild went from lvl 30 with around 94% xp to 31, to lvl 35.

Ranger1017

10-13-2010, 02:09 PM

<cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Its really quite simple, they forced the guild levels to their new curve much as a college professor forces student grades to match a bell curve, which does not always match the efforts of students. Instead they should have recognized the hard work of folks who in good faith had worked within the old system and moved forward from that point with the new numbers. But that would be harder to do. As it is they did realize that loss of guild amenities was a really bad idea and made some adjustments. For many of us the Hell levels are the new ones we are facing, not the long road to 90.One way to think of it as stealing a toy away from one child and handing it to a stranger that is passing by.</blockquote>That's a great analogy, except for the part where it's not even remotely accurate or appropriate to the situation.

Peogia

10-13-2010, 02:14 PM

Can we please get some highly detailed diagrams of before and after of the guild hall xp up date?

Eanae

10-13-2010, 02:18 PM

No matter how you graph it, no matter what numbers you use. The people leveling their guilds were doing so under the old curve and should have been grandfathered and that is the end of it. When you have a set of rules you dont just change them in mid stream without taking into complete consideration the impact. If your guild was (x) amount away from reaching the next level, it should have stayed there and the new system kick from then... forward. I would like to hear what you all have to say if you think this is fair to the smaller guilds if you come back into the game and you were level 90 and found out, Oh they put a new curve in, you are only level 80 now. We made a mistake on how fast you should have leveled, so now you have to do it again. But gee wheez folks, it is better for you in the long run. You will get to 90 faster. We did not take any experience away from you, we just changed how much you needed to level.This new curve is only good for people who want to reach 90. There is no thought nor care for the small guilds who are struggling to get to 55 for the ammenities. Our guild lost 40 percent. Now, not only do we have to make up that 40 percent, but it will take us double the time. All of the writs we will be doing will just be getting our 40 percent back, not advancing us past that point. Yes we did loose experience. Maybe not the new way it is graphed, but under the rules we were playing on, Yes we did loose. If you go from 40 percent to the next level and come back into the game and see you are at 0 percent, to me that is a decline in level. It is a loss under the current rules and anyone it effected to the negative should have been grandfathered for their guild to stand as it was when the changes became effective.You can chart and graph all you want. In the end, people should have been grandfathered. They were playing fair and under the current rules. XP was lost, it just depends on which side of the fence you were sitting on. I cant understand why they did not just put the so called new curve into effect for all "future" instead of backtracking. People who say you did not loose any experience are playing under the new rules of the curve, you did loose under the old rules of the curve.

Eanae

10-13-2010, 02:25 PM

a

Valdaglerion

10-13-2010, 02:27 PM

Wow, seriously people? This thread just goes to show that sometimes you cant please people even when you help them.Some people were given free XP to keep them at the current level rather than knock them back to where they should be in accordance with the new point requirements. Talk about getting hung up on the %.If it takes 200 points to get from level 1 to 2 and you were at 50% but it now takes 100 points to get from level 1 to level 2, have you really lost anything? No. You still have 100 points to gain and you will notice the % of gain going faster because it requires less points to get between the markers.Nice job Rothgar, whether they appreciate it or not. Do those of us that leveled the hardway get some free xp for the next level cap increase? /snicker

Notsovilepriest

10-13-2010, 02:50 PM

<cite>Eanae wrote:</cite><blockquote>No matter how you graph it, no matter what numbers you use. The people leveling their guilds were doing so under the old curve and should have been grandfathered and that is the end of it. When you have a set of rules you dont just change them in mid stream without taking into complete consideration the impact. If your guild was (x) amount away from reaching the next level, it should have stayed there and the new system kick from then... forward. I would like to hear what you all have to say if you think this is fair to the smaller guilds if you come back into the game and you were level 90 and found out, Oh they put a new curve in, you are only level 80 now. We made a mistake on how fast you should have leveled, so now you have to do it again. But gee wheez folks, it is better for you in the long run. You will get to 90 faster. We did not take any experience away from you, we just changed how much you needed to level.This new curve is only good for people who want to reach 90. There is no thought nor care for the small guilds who are struggling to get to 55 for the ammenities. Our guild lost 40 percent. Now, not only do we have to make up that 40 percent, but it will take us double the time. All of the writs we will be doing will just be getting our 40 percent back, not advancing us past that point. Yes we did loose experience. Maybe not the new way it is graphed, but under the rules we were playing on, Yes we did loose. If you go from 40 percent to the next level and come back into the game and see you are at 0 percent, to me that is a decline in level. It is a loss under the current rules and anyone it effected to the negative should have been grandfathered for their guild to stand as it was when the changes became effective.You can chart and graph all you want. In the end, people should have been grandfathered. They were playing fair and under the current rules. XP was lost, it just depends on which side of the fence you were sitting on. I cant understand why they did not just put the so called new curve into effect for all "future" instead of backtracking. People who say you did not loose any experience are playing under the new rules of the curve, you did loose under the old rules of the curve.</blockquote>They were godfathered, Lots gained XP in the numberical value.

ratdeath

10-13-2010, 02:56 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, seriously people? This thread just goes to show that sometimes you cant please people even when you help them.Some people were given free XP to keep them at the current level rather than knock them back to where they should be in accordance with the new point requirements. Talk about getting hung up on the %.If it takes 200 points to get from level 1 to 2 and you were at 50% but it now takes 100 points to get from level 1 to level 2, have you really lost anything? No. You still have 100 points to gain and you will notice the % of gain going faster because it requires less points to get between the markers.Nice job Rothgar, whether they appreciate it or not. Do those of us that leveled the hardway get some free xp for the next level cap increase? /snicker</blockquote>We all gained our XP the hard way.Some XP values as an example:The old system:<ul><li>Level 59: 100 000 xp</li><li>Level 59,5: 105 000 xp ( our pre GU58 progress )</li><li>Level 60: 110 000 xp</li></ul>The new system:<ul><li>Level 57: 100 000 xp</li><li>Level 59: 120 000 xp ( post GU58 )</li><li>Level 59,5: 124 000 xp</li><li>Level 60: 128 000 xp</li></ul>So by caping the guild level at the prepatch level, like 59 in this example, it's called that we get free XP because we need 120 000 xp in the new system?From our point of view we lost 5000 XP, perhaps its less XP required between 59 and 60 now, though I doubt it's not even close to like 50% less XP needed and especially not like only a few writs for those who lost over 90% of their progress to ding from 59 to 60.Mostly just annoyed by people posting here kicking on those who lost progress towards their next goal and feel ripped off by SoE. We dinged level 59 on September 16th and have gained half a guild level just playing and doing a few writs here and there, so yes it feels like we just lost one month of progress, sure there are others who take it slower and perhaps even lost closer to 90%.We will regrind and move on and there is other good things with GU58 so I guess it's a give and take as usual when it comes to patches <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" />

Stubbswick

10-13-2010, 04:21 PM

<cite>Piyorat@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>From our point of view we lost 5000 XP, perhaps its less XP required between 59 and 60 now, though I doubt it's not even close to like 50% less XP needed and especially not like only a few writs for those who lost over 90% of their progress to ding from 59 to 60.</blockquote>From your point of view, you lost 5,000 XP. From the game's point of view, you gained 20,000 XP. (Those numbers aren't right, but I'm just going off of what you posted). It's actually one of the more fair options they could have chosen. Going by your numbers, you want them to give you another 4,000 XP on top of the 20,000. That's not fair to other guilds. One of my guilds gained a few levels through the boost (just came off of some hell levels). But we didn't actually gain any of the XP that you did. Should we have gained another level or two? Should we be complaining that you guys should have been de-leveled, because we didn't get the boost?Not "kicking on you" for being upset that your bar went down 50%, but trying to explain the "new math" involved. It sucks that your guild exp bar went down, and I can see why you'd be upset. But in the long haul, it'll all work out better.

Eanae

10-13-2010, 05:22 PM

It is not a true grandfather. If it was, no one would have lost anything they put into it. It was a token in their minds. The new curve should have been toward future, not past. Not sure about you, but when I see 40 percent gone from work toward a level, that is lost because they applied the new curve and re-evaluated to it across the board, which was wrong. It should have been all future, not past.Some say you did not loose anything, phffft. When your bar goes to 0, and it was not there before, you lost. I tested out doing writs, I am getting the same amount of experience now as I did before. So if this is true, then how can it be easier to level. Maybe as you get higher in levels it will make a difference, but for middle ground guilds, it is the pitts to do to them. They lost, no matter how you put it. Now if I was getting a lot more for writs, then I would not say anything, but the net return per writ at this level is the same, so we lost.

Murdo

10-13-2010, 05:47 PM

I honestly cannot think of an easier way to put it, but from what I can tell, nobody actually lost anything except where the progress bar is now situated. Your guild still has the same amount of status it had before the patch, it's just that the goal posts were adjusted. For anyone that dropped to 0%, they actually gained a little xp so as not to de-level. Our guild gained 4 lvls, but we did not "gain" any status, we are still at the same number as we had before, it's just that that number now represents a different lvl.

Iskandar

10-13-2010, 05:50 PM

A "Double Status Weekend" (if such a thing is even possible) for writs, HQ's and status item sales would be a nice gesture, whether people feel they gained or lost or stayed the same. Everyone would benefit (even the level 90 guilds -- we all gotta pay rent, after all hehe!), and it sure would look good on the ole PR scorecard! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />

Valdaglerion

10-13-2010, 06:16 PM

<cite>Piyorat@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow, seriously people? This thread just goes to show that sometimes you cant please people even when you help them.Some people were given free XP to keep them at the current level rather than knock them back to where they should be in accordance with the new point requirements. Talk about getting hung up on the %.If it takes 200 points to get from level 1 to 2 and you were at 50% but it now takes 100 points to get from level 1 to level 2, have you really lost anything? No. You still have 100 points to gain and you will notice the % of gain going faster because it requires less points to get between the markers.Nice job Rothgar, whether they appreciate it or not. Do those of us that leveled the hardway get some free xp for the next level cap increase? /snicker</blockquote>We all gained our XP the hard way.Some XP values as an example:The old system:<ul><li>Level 59: 100 000 xp</li><li>Level 59,5: 105 000 xp ( our pre GU58 progress )</li><li>Level 60: 110 000 xp</li></ul>The new system:<ul><li>Level 57: 100 000 xp</li><li>Level 59: 120 000 xp ( post GU58 )</li><li>Level 59,5: 124 000 xp</li><li>Level 60: 128 000 xp</li></ul>So by caping the guild level at the prepatch level, like 59 in this example, it's called that we get free XP because we need 120 000 xp in the new system?From our point of view we lost 5000 XP, perhaps its less XP required between 59 and 60 now, though I doubt it's not even close to like 50% less XP needed and especially not like only a few writs for those who lost over 90% of their progress to ding from 59 to 60.Mostly just annoyed by people posting here kicking on those who lost progress towards their next goal and feel ripped off by SoE. We dinged level 59 on September 16th and have gained half a guild level just playing and doing a few writs here and there, so yes it feels like we just lost one month of progress, sure there are others who take it slower and perhaps even lost closer to 90%.We will regrind and move on and there is other good things with GU58 so I guess it's a give and take as usual when it comes to patches <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>I understand the perception but look at what others have already posted in your same guild level range, that XP is about 300% more in percentage basis than it was pre GU58. I get the perception, really I do. "We were only 5-75% away from our next level" but in reality you could be only 5-75% away from your next level 2 levels behind where you were. The fact the devs didnt want to downtier you and gave you free xp was a good thing. Just think, over the haul to 90 you will do less XP grinding than any other guild that got there before you and after you, you are the lucky few.I personally would love to see different guild rules all together.<ul><li>6 accounts to start one</li><li>6 accounts to keep one, lose accounts, lose the guild charter</li><li>lose players, lose their status, guild might lose levels</li><li>gain players, gain their status, guild might gain levels</li></ul><div>Makes the whole guild dynamic more interesting IMO. Might get rid of all the tiny guilds being abused for storage and bring larger groups of players together to play. My thoughts and yes I know, not popular views, its all good.</div>

Cabral

10-13-2010, 06:52 PM

<cite>Wubbah@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>From your point of view, you lost 5,000 XP. From the game's point of view, you gained 20,000 XP. (Those numbers aren't right, but I'm just going off of what you posted). </blockquote>From my point of view, we were at around 53.9 now we are at 53. We lost nine-tenths of a level.No one should have lost ground. No one. Not one inch.

Valdaglerion

10-13-2010, 07:03 PM

<cite>Cabral wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wubbah@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>From your point of view, you lost 5,000 XP. From the game's point of view, you gained 20,000 XP. (Those numbers aren't right, but I'm just going off of what you posted). </blockquote>From my point of view, we were at around 53.9 now we are at 53. We lost nine-tenths of a level.No one should have lost ground. No one. Not one inch.</blockquote>/sighFor those who understand no explanation is necessary and apparently for those who dont, none is possible.

Illmarr

10-13-2010, 07:16 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cabral wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wubbah@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>From your point of view, you lost 5,000 XP. From the game's point of view, you gained 20,000 XP. (Those numbers aren't right, but I'm just going off of what you posted). </blockquote>From my point of view, we were at around 53.9 now we are at 53. We lost nine-tenths of a level.No one should have lost ground. No one. Not one inch.</blockquote>/sighFor those who understand no explanation is necessary and apparently for those who dont, none is possible.</blockquote>Welcome to enlightenment.Again, I do feel for folks who lost some progress at the expense of gaining actual status because short term goals are delayed.I'm surprised no one has put on the tinfoil hat and said this change was made solely to smooth things out for new Guilds in EQ2X yet <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" />

Te'ana

10-13-2010, 09:24 PM

To bring up a really sore point, how about comparing what was done to mid-level guilds and those folks who cheated and used toons they didn't pay for. They got mercy, but those of us playing by the rules shouldn't get mercy?

Zaldor

10-13-2010, 11:02 PM

<cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>To bring up a really sore point, how about comparing what was done to mid-level guilds and those folks who cheated and used toons they didn't pay for. They got mercy, but those of us playing by the rules shouldn't get mercy?</blockquote>SOE makes the rules and decisions. Your continued subscription shows your support for the status quo. That is the power you have.

erin

10-13-2010, 11:39 PM

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 08:35 AM

XP is not PROGRESS.In game, you show us PROGRESS and then talk XP here. You're hopelessly out of touch.My guild, luckily, was already at 60 (and we've lost over 70% PROGRESS). Which means that the XP required to reach 60 is now MORE than it was. I'd be furious with you if I were lower than 60 and working hard to reach it.I really feel for those who are not yet level 60, as they have to work doubly hard to reach their goal of extra bank space, amenities and perks - even more so for small guilds.I understand what people are saying about getting extra XP so we weren't de-levelled, but that's a total non-argument! We shouldn't have ever been put in a position where guilds might have been de-levelled. If changes were made to the curve, then anyone who'd already been thru a hell level should have seen more progress toward their next level. They did not.Increasing the amount of XP required to reach any level is WRONG. What it takes to get to hallmark levels should not have increased.The new curve is WRONG. Clearly, a new curve has been whacked in without consideration for actual progress along the previous curve.The whole implementation is WRONG. From the ignorance of development toward small guilds and casuals (AGAIN!!!) to the level requirements having increased. SOE: YOU DONE WRONG. GET A CLUE!

Jaremai

10-14-2010, 08:43 AM

Maybe if they let us see the hard XP numbers as a tooltip of the guild XP bar, some people would be happier?"8546205/9000000" or maybe "50% / 453795 to go"Probably not.

Murdo

10-14-2010, 10:23 AM

Some get it, some don't, nothing left to see here.

Te'ana

10-14-2010, 10:39 AM

Quite true, some don't get that it will take much longer to get to 60 with loss of progress than it did before because 50-60 are the new Hell levels.

Eanae

10-14-2010, 11:07 AM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>XP is not PROGRESS.In game, you show us PROGRESS and then talk XP here. You're hopelessly out of touch.My guild, luckily, was already at 60 (and we've lost over 70% PROGRESS). Which means that the XP required to reach 60 is now MORE than it was. I'd be furious with you if I were lower than 60 and working hard to reach it.I really feel for those who are not yet level 60, as they have to work doubly hard to reach their goal of extra bank space, amenities and perks - even more so for small guilds.I understand what people are saying about getting extra XP so we weren't de-levelled, but that's a total non-argument! We shouldn't have ever been put in a position where guilds might have been de-levelled. If changes were made to the curve, then anyone who'd already been thru a hell level should have seen more progress toward their next level. They did not.Increasing the amount of XP required to reach any level is WRONG. What it takes to get to hallmark levels should not have increased.The new curve is WRONG. Clearly, a new curve has been whacked in without consideration for actual progress along the previous curve.The whole implementation is WRONG. From the ignorance of development toward small guilds and casuals (AGAIN!!!) to the level requirements having increased. SOE: YOU DONE WRONG. GET A CLUE!</blockquote>Thank you, this is the way I see it, too. My problem in trying to explain it was I did not seperate the Progress from the XP. Nicely stated. This is exactly how I see it and feel. It is amazing how many people believe something, just because SOE says it. They think it is true. And the idea we should be thankful they did not delevel us is a laugh. You are so right when you said we should not even be put in that situation. IMO this is the best explanation of what has happened to the mid-level guilds there is. I lost 40 percent on the PROGRESS BAR, maybe not experience, but progress to the next level. No matter how it is cut, it is a loss, to the next level. They can call it what they want, sugar coat it or downplay it and say we did not loose experience, but we sure lost progress and this is not right at all.Thank you for your great post on this, it actually made me feel better because you were able to completely explain the problem.

NightGod473

10-14-2010, 11:19 AM

<cite>rtemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand the perception but look at what others have already posted in your same guild level range, that XP is about 300% more in percentage basis than it was pre GU58. I get the perception, really I do. "We were only 5-75% away from our next level" but in reality you could be only 5-75% away from your next level 2 levels behind where you were. The fact the devs didnt want to downtier you and gave you free xp was a good thing. Just think, over the haul to 90 you will do less XP grinding than any other guild that got there before you and after you, you are the lucky few.I personally would love to see different guild rules all together.<ul><li>6 accounts to start one</li><li>6 accounts to keep one, lose accounts, lose the guild charter</li><li>lose players, lose their status, guild might lose levels</li><li>gain players, gain their status, guild might gain levels</li></ul><div>Makes the whole guild dynamic more interesting IMO. Might get rid of all the tiny guilds being abused for storage and bring larger groups of players together to play. My thoughts and yes I know, not popular views, its all good.</div></blockquote>The lose players/lose status thing used to happen. It also used to divide the amount of exp you gained by the number of people in your guild (which encouraged guild writ groups and smaller guilds and booting people if they were inactive more and a week or so).Frankly, it sucked. One of the worst mechanics I've ever seen in an MMO, I don't personally know of anyone who was anything but overjoyed when they eliminated both of those.

BetaTester

10-14-2010, 11:29 AM

after 5 years of watching SOE step in it , time after time after time , you guys REALLY need to get somebody with a clue .If YOU screwed up the level curve and wanted to change it , the GOOD PR move would have been to lock every guilds EXP at the percentage and level they HAD if they would have appeared to have lost progress , and bumped their level as you did if their exp granted them levels under the new curve ...I just reactivated after two years , and since I'm the only one in my guild that has ... its NEVER going to hit 90pr is more than putting the best face on explaining why something was done .SOE still hasn't learned the best pr is giving people more instead of taking things away .when you need to make changes to game machanix , give people a real heads up , otherwize they're going to be angry that SOE knowingly let them waste Plat and Effort .Ex. when I reactivated , I find out my dps spec'd SK gear is crap ... and alot of drops and rewards are still int spec'd ?I understand why it was done , but ... you could have combined BOTH int and str for three or four GUs , while everybody out grew thier gear and you got around to updating the drop tables ...same with yanking adornments from the crafters , a heads up , no new dev on recipes , and a GU or two to phase it out . When SoE finally decides they want to do something , bang your in a big rush and your customers keep getting left holding the bag .idk , maybe I'm not being fair , and this is all crystal ball stuff in hindsight , but 6+ years of EQ2 dev on top of EQ1 , you'd think some things would be 'maturing'ps: thats not to say I'm not impressed , even astounded at times with the art , the music , the modeling , and the technology , and props to the writers for all the humor and lore <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" />

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 12:25 PM

<cite>Eanae wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thank you for your great post on this, it actually made me feel better because you were able to completely explain the problem.</blockquote>You're welcome.For those still trying to catch up:If you start levelling a guild now, it will take more XP to reach 60 than it did pre-patch. Therefore you will have to work harder than previous guilds to reach that particular hallmark level. This is TRUE. No SOE spin can deny this. It is a FACT. No numbers had to be "made-up" to illustrate this point.<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>In all cases, guilds will gain XP even though your progress bar went down.We adjusted the leveling curve and some levels now require less XP in order to gain them.</blockquote>This is another disingenuous SOE post. What it doesn't say is that some levels now require more XP in order to gain them. And if we accept Jaye's illustration below, then it is possible for some guilds to NOT gain XP, even though Rothgar clearly states "In all cases guilds will gain XP".<cite>Jaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Think of it like this-Old levels and xp needed:56..............!..57.....58....59...&60..............61.........62 New levels and xp needed:56.........57.!........58.........59..&.....60........61.........62FIXED - all I did was change the level numbers, no changes made to OP's distancing between levels.If your guild is the ! you gained a level without getting any more xp! But you didn't get any closer to your next hallmark level, it just got further away but you don't even know it! So your PERCEPTION is that you just got levels for nothing, when in FACT, you just got screwed.If your guild is the & you didn't lose any XP (and you didn't gain any) but your personal target is now further away on this curve (and requires more XP than people who came before you)</blockquote> The OP of this illustration missed the point of PROGRESS vs XP. It also uses "made-up" numbers and assumes that 62 (or 58 in the original example) still requires the same amount of XP, which it most likely does not.SOE's whole change assumes that 90* is the goal, whereas for many guilds - more than most here understand, SOE included - their goals are much more conservative. But then, if we had proper census figures we'd all be very clear as to how many end-game guilds and players there really are.*If, indeed, the amount of XP required for 90 hasn't also changed, since there's no official quote on that!!

Xalmat

10-14-2010, 12:39 PM

Nobody lost levels due to this change. You might have lost progress into your current level due to the recurving, but in the end it's going to take you less guild XP to reach level 90 than it did before.If your goal isn't to get your guild level as high as possible, then I dunno what to tell you.

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 12:46 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nobody lost levels due to this change. You might have lost progress into your current level due to the recurving, but in the end it's going to take you less guild XP to reach level 90 than it did before.wow. where's your evidence that level 90 takes less XP than it did before? AFAIK, the actual number hasn't changed, the curve between 0 and 90 has. If your goal isn't to get your guild level as high as possible, then I dunno what to tell you.don't let your ignorance of other people's playstyles stop you... </blockquote>

Jaremai

10-14-2010, 12:58 PM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>wow. where's your evidence that level 90 takes less XP than it did before? AFAIK, the actual number hasn't changed, the curve between 0 and 90 has. </blockquote>Probably from page 2 of this same thread? Here.. save you the trouble.<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> The total amount of XP needed to get to 90 was lessened, so you are now further along than you would have been before.</blockquote>

Vieray

10-14-2010, 01:03 PM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nobody lost levels due to this change. You might have lost progress into your current level due to the recurving, but in the end it's going to take you less guild XP to reach level 90 than it did before.wow. where's your evidence that level 90 takes less XP than it did before? AFAIK, the actual number hasn't changed, the curve between 0 and 90 has. If your goal isn't to get your guild level as high as possible, then I dunno what to tell you.don't let your ignorance of other people's playstyles stop you... </blockquote></blockquote>Yes the amount of exp is the same...no guild lost a level. If I guild would have lost a level they were given exp to keep them at their current level, therefore it will take them less exp to get to max level because they were given free exp. It is very a logical deduction. Because the curve is smooth some levels will take longer than they did before but hell levels will be gone...it seems a fair trade that is overdue.

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 01:08 PM

<cite>Jaremai@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>wow. where's your evidence that level 90 takes less XP than it did before? AFAIK, the actual number hasn't changed, the curve between 0 and 90 has. </blockquote>Probably from page 2 of this same thread? Here.. save you the trouble.<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote> The total amount of XP needed to get to 90 was lessened, so you are now further along than you would have been before.</blockquote></blockquote>Thanks. Unfortunately he also wrote:<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Regardless of what the progress bar shows, when you reach level 90, everyone will have put in the same amount of work.</blockquote>I'm confused as to which it is. Less or the same?In any case, nothing so far addresses the issue that for those whose target was 60 this now requires more XP than was required of guilds who have surpassed this level.

Gerra

10-14-2010, 01:41 PM

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 01:52 PM

<cite>Gerra wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nobody lost levels due to this change. You might have lost progress into your current level due to the recurving, but in the end it's going to take you less guild XP to reach level 90 than it did before.wow. where's your evidence that level 90 takes less XP than it did before? AFAIK, the actual number hasn't changed, the curve between 0 and 90 has. </blockquote></blockquote> How about a bit of case evidence. My guild was LVL 89 and 10% before update. Logged in after update and was LVL 90. Clearly the amount of status to be LVL 90 is now less than what it was to be LVL 89 and 10%.</blockquote>Great! Congrats! Now we've resolved that if you're 89 you might as well be 90, what about the couples and families who were working really hard to get to 60 and now find it even further away, or those who aren't even aware that goalpost has been moved? What about the entire point of this thread?

Cronqar

10-14-2010, 02:11 PM

As much as I appreciate that things get fixed in this game, the way it has been done here is questionable and pretty shortsighted.The ones that are majorly affected are the smaller guilds between Lvl50-60. These appear to be usually the smaller guilds which over the years have lost members and evolved to small groups, families that are quiet happy aiming for their next goal. This is in most cases Lvl 60 maybe, but certainly not Lvl90 which is for those small groups unobtainable in time.What you have done here is simply taking away time spend on gaining guild XP from people that probably do not spend that much time in the game. Let's call it the "average player". After running some writs yesterday after having lost about 55% towards Lvl56 it appears that the time comes to about 10hours playtime on average. It takes me about 10 minutes for 52k statuspoints which equal to about 1.38% (used to be about 1.1%) towards the next level.Now, you might say: What is 10 hours of grinding guild levels, that is not that much. But for a lot of people losing those 10 hours is discouraging. And what is even more discouraging is that the points made by the affected guilds are obviously not understood by those who so boldly bring in the bigger picture of Lvl90. Here is the true bigger picture. Guildlevel 90 is unobtainable for a lot of smaller guilds. I don't expect an changes after the fact, I just go ahead and grind in my normal ways, but I would suggest that you actually have a look who really got hit by this and what this will do to a certain playerbase.

Jaremai

10-14-2010, 02:20 PM

<cite>Cronqar wrote:</cite><blockquote>What you have done here is simply taking away time spend on gaining guild XP from people that probably do not spend that much time in the game. Let's call it the "average player". After running some writs yesterday after having lost about 55% towards Lvl56 it appears that the time comes to about 10hours playtime on average. It takes me about 10 minutes for 52k statuspoints which equal to about 1.38% (used to be about 1.1%) towards the next level.</blockquote>Given your numbers, it would take you just over 12hrs to solo ding the guild to level 56. If you were still at 55% and the old gain it would have taken you close to 7hrs to ding 56. So yes, today you lost 5hrs.Extrapolate those numbers to the next level.. it will take you say 13hrs to solo ding the guild to 57. Had the curve not changed it would have taken you between 16 and 17hrs - so tomorrow your net loss is 1-2hrs overall.By the time you reach 58 you'll be ahead on time and accelerating faster to 60 than you would have before.So it might sting today but in a week or two, who gives a [Removed for Content].. your (and my) small guild is 60. Woo.

Gerra

10-14-2010, 02:22 PM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gerra wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nobody lost levels due to this change. You might have lost progress into your current level due to the recurving, but in the end it's going to take you less guild XP to reach level 90 than it did before.wow. where's your evidence that level 90 takes less XP than it did before? AFAIK, the actual number hasn't changed, the curve between 0 and 90 has. </blockquote></blockquote> How about a bit of case evidence. My guild was LVL 89 and 10% before update. Logged in after update and was LVL 90. Clearly the amount of status to be LVL 90 is now less than what it was to be LVL 89 and 10%.</blockquote>Great! Congrats! Now we've resolved that if you're 89 you might as well be 90, what about the couples and families who were working really hard to get to 60 and now find it even further away, or those who aren't even aware that goalpost has been moved? What about the entire point of this thread?</blockquote>Honestly single people and couples or families do not need guild halls and it is not using the system as intended. You can do the same thing with a large house in a good location. Especially with some of the items added for tinkerers to make and the travel revamp.The only amenity I might concede on is the guild bank for a small group of people. but that is still easily over come by actually trading things between people < the old fasion way> and the house vault.You may want a guild hall cuz it's cool but you chose to be small and make more work for yourself. You may suffer a little in the short term but in the long term it's better all around for MORE people.

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 02:50 PM

<cite>Gerra wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gerra wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nobody lost levels due to this change. You might have lost progress into your current level due to the recurving, but in the end it's going to take you less guild XP to reach level 90 than it did before.wow. where's your evidence that level 90 takes less XP than it did before? AFAIK, the actual number hasn't changed, the curve between 0 and 90 has. </blockquote></blockquote> How about a bit of case evidence. My guild was LVL 89 and 10% before update. Logged in after update and was LVL 90. Clearly the amount of status to be LVL 90 is now less than what it was to be LVL 89 and 10%.</blockquote>Great! Congrats! Now we've resolved that if you're 89 you might as well be 90, what about the couples and families who were working really hard to get to 60 and now find it even further away, or those who aren't even aware that goalpost has been moved? What about the entire point of this thread?</blockquote>Honestly single people and couples or families do not need guild halls and it is not using the system as intended. You can do the same thing with a large house in a good location. Especially with some of the items added for tinkerers to make and the travel revamp.The only amenity I might concede on is the guild bank for a small group of people. but that is still easily over come by actually trading things between people < the old fasion way> and the house vault.You may want a guild hall cuz it's cool but you chose to be small and make more work for yourself. You may suffer a little in the short term but in the long term it's better all around for MORE people.</blockquote>Sorry. I didn't know you were a developer. I was unaware I was playing the game wrong. I am so glad that someone of your undoubted knowledge came along and corrected me.

MyleeSilverwings

10-14-2010, 02:53 PM

Aemm, thank you for stating so clearly and succinctly exactly what this issue is all about!!!I haven't posted on this subject in a couple of days because I needed to calm down, step back and try to look at this objectively. Unfortunately, the greeting message trying to soothe me did exactly the opposite. It was demeaning!And now my feathers are ruffled even further by Gerra's arrogant judgment:"Honestly single people and couples or families do not need guild halls and it is not using the system as intended. You can do the same thing with a large house in a good location. Especially with some of the items added for tinkerers to make and the travel revamp."Exactly how, pray tell, was the system to be used? By only a select group of people in a large guild? Do not "single people and couples and families" pay the same subscription fee you do? And do they not have the right to decide how they are going to play this game????How dare you suggest that I do not have the right to have a guild hall! My main is in a very large guild, and we have a stunningly beautifully decorated tier 3 guild hall. I love it. But I wanted a place for my crafter alts. That is my right!And how, pray tell, are we supposed to obtain amenities for our "large house?" Is a fuel merchant available? Is a tradeskill writ giver available? Are there harvesting bots available? Are there bells, spires and druid portals available? Are there brokers available?This entire revamp was handled extremely poorly by the developers. It hit the level 51-59 small guilds extremely hard. I suspect that nothing will be done to rectify the damage, and that we will have to suck it up. So be it.

Valdaglerion

10-14-2010, 03:28 PM

<cite>NightGod473 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>rtemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I understand the perception but look at what others have already posted in your same guild level range, that XP is about 300% more in percentage basis than it was pre GU58. I get the perception, really I do. "We were only 5-75% away from our next level" but in reality you could be only 5-75% away from your next level 2 levels behind where you were. The fact the devs didnt want to downtier you and gave you free xp was a good thing. Just think, over the haul to 90 you will do less XP grinding than any other guild that got there before you and after you, you are the lucky few.I personally would love to see different guild rules all together.<ul><li>6 accounts to start one</li><li>6 accounts to keep one, lose accounts, lose the guild charter</li><li>lose players, lose their status, guild might lose levels</li><li>gain players, gain their status, guild might gain levels</li></ul><div>Makes the whole guild dynamic more interesting IMO. Might get rid of all the tiny guilds being abused for storage and bring larger groups of players together to play. My thoughts and yes I know, not popular views, its all good.</div></blockquote>The lose players/lose status thing used to happen. It also used to divide the amount of exp you gained by the number of people in your guild (which encouraged guild writ groups and smaller guilds and booting people if they were inactive more and a week or so).Frankly, it sucked. One of the worst mechanics I've ever seen in an MMO, I don't personally know of anyone who was anything but overjoyed when they eliminated both of those.</blockquote>Yes the dividing thing did suck, it actually made it advantageous to have a small guild of less than 6-10 people for maximized status gain. SO that I agree with, the removal of deleveling did nothing but hurt the player and take away detriment to guild leaders. Why get people to stay when you have nothing to gain or lose by their coming or going.This is when all the tiny personal guilds started as well. There is zero incentive to be in a guild anymore unless you raid.

Gerra

10-14-2010, 04:08 PM

<cite>Tikatika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>How dare you suggest that I do not have the right to have a guild hall! Never said you didn't have a right to it. Just that using in your fashion wasn't intended. The mere cost of the halls themselves and the amenities and the upkeep indicate meant to have more then 1 person or even a few using the whole thing.And how, pray tell, are we supposed to obtain amenities for our "large house?" Is a fuel merchant available? Is a tradeskill writ giver available? Are there harvesting bots available? Are there bells, spires and druid portals available? Are there brokers available?Amazingly enough I can accomplish all of this with out ever entering my guild hall. Other than having someone else harvest for me for free but then again saving the cost of upkeep for the harvest bots i can just buy the stuff off the broker anyway.</blockquote>And on top of that I manged to accomplish all of that before there were ever guild halls. Guess I'm tired of seeing people get hand outs and leg ups only to see them cry they didn't get enough.And no matter how you try to explain it -- getting unearned status on your guildhall that others didn't get and will most lilkely never get is a handout and a leg up!

Valdaglerion

10-14-2010, 04:27 PM

<cite>Tikatika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Aemm, thank you for stating so clearly and succinctly exactly what this issue is all about!!!I haven't posted on this subject in a couple of days because I needed to calm down, step back and try to look at this objectively. Unfortunately, the greeting message trying to soothe me did exactly the opposite. It was demeaning!And now my feathers are ruffled even further by Gerra's arrogant judgment:"Honestly single people and couples or families do not need guild halls and it is not using the system as intended. You can do the same thing with a large house in a good location. Especially with some of the items added for tinkerers to make and the travel revamp."Exactly how, pray tell, was the system to be used? By only a select group of people in a large guild? Do not "single people and couples and families" pay the same subscription fee you do? And do they not have the right to decide how they are going to play this game????How dare you suggest that I do not have the right to have a guild hall! My main is in a very large guild, and we have a stunningly beautifully decorated tier 3 guild hall. I love it. But I wanted a place for my crafter alts. That is my right!And how, pray tell, are we supposed to obtain amenities for our "large house?" Is a fuel merchant available? Is a tradeskill writ giver available? Are there harvesting bots available? Are there bells, spires and druid portals available? Are there brokers available?This entire revamp was handled extremely poorly by the developers. It hit the level 51-59 small guilds extremely hard. I suspect that nothing will be done to rectify the damage, and that we will have to suck it up. So be it.</blockquote>LOLThe 51-59 guilds are the ones that are going to benefit the most in the long run. You people are cracking me up. Math 101 FTWAnd I agree, you are not using the system as intended IF you have less than 6 active accounts in your guild. After all, thats what it takes to form a guild in the first place.Perhyaps the devs should rectify it by removing percentage basis and just showing the points, then de-leveling all guilds that fail to meet the point requirements for the level. That would make it much more clear I think.

CrazyMoogle

10-14-2010, 04:51 PM

Some of us got to 90 under the old, more difficult rules. You should be happy you have an easier and quicker path to 90 than we did.

Crismorn

10-14-2010, 04:53 PM

Should change the name of this thread to "The XP bar confuses me so I think my guild lost xp"

Stylish

10-14-2010, 04:55 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Should change the name of this thread to "The XP bar confuses me so I think my guild lost xp"</blockquote>Or how about:"Retroactive: A Study in Meaning"

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 05:11 PM

<cite></cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Should change the name of this thread to "The XP bar confuses me so I think my guild lost xp"</blockquote></blockquote>+1

Valdaglerion

10-14-2010, 05:47 PM

You know the sad thing about this . . . People in this affected range have likely never gone beyond that range in guild leveling before, hence, the reason they are not understanding this change and its benefits. This makes me believe they will fail to appreciate the change when, at some point, they do reach max level. They will have no basis of comparison and more than likely only continue to remember the time SOE nerfed their XP and how much faster they would have achieved 90 had that not happened.And if that assumption is accurate, any further discussion is only an exercise in the futile.

Crismorn

10-14-2010, 05:52 PM

<cite>Stylish wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Should change the name of this thread to "The XP bar confuses me so I think my guild lost xp"</blockquote>Or how about:"Retroactive: A Study in Meaning"</blockquote>Stay away from anything with a graph or linear line, I'm getting the impression that they confuse you.

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 07:02 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stay away from anything with a graph or linear line, I'm getting the impression that they confuse you.</blockquote>Perhaps you should stay away from words for the same reason.

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 07:05 PM

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>You know the sad thing about this . . .People in this affected range have likely never gone beyond that range in guild leveling before, hence, the reason they are not understanding this change and its benefits. This makes me believe they will fail to appreciate the change when, at some point, they do reach max level. They will have no basis of comparison and more than likely only continue to remember the time SOE nerfed their XP and how much faster they would have achieved 90 had that not happened.And if that assumption is accurate, any further discussion is only an exercise in the futile.</blockquote>Here's your argument: Let them eat cake...PS. When you master the SPACE BAR is when I'll listen to your opinion.

Crismorn

10-14-2010, 07:09 PM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stay away from anything with a graph or linear line, I'm getting the impression that they confuse you.</blockquote>Perhaps you should stay away from words for the same reason.</blockquote>OMG THE YELLOW BAR LOOKS DIFFERENT I MUST HAZ LOST XPS OH NOE!Too funny

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 07:19 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Stay away from anything with a graph or linear line, I'm getting the impression that they confuse you.</blockquote>Perhaps you should stay away from words for the same reason.</blockquote>OMG THE YELLOW BAR LOOKS DIFFERENT I MUST HAZ LOST XPS OH NOE!Too funny</blockquote>How did this thread even survive this long? XDSummary:Players: We lost Exp!Dev: No, you didn't. In fact you likely gained exp.Players: But, the bar went down !Dev: Numbers don't lie !Players: YES THEY DO.

Elskidor

10-14-2010, 07:20 PM

<cite>Tikatika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This entire revamp was handled extremely poorly by the developers. It hit the level 51-59 small guilds extremely hard. I suspect that nothing will be done to rectify the damage, and that we will have to suck it up. So be it.</blockquote>I here you. If I knew what was going to happen I woulda grinded the remaining xp to hit 60. Little too late for that now. I understand what they were doing, but a simple warning a few weeks prior would have been better than this cruddy WHAM, "Oh, I did you favor by not deleveling you. Deal with it." Very poorly handled.P.S. Sheesh people. A guild hall can be used by whoever and however they deem fit. Grow up.

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 07:33 PM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tikatika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This entire revamp was handled extremely poorly by the developers. It hit the level 51-59 small guilds extremely hard. I suspect that nothing will be done to rectify the damage, and that we will have to suck it up. So be it.</blockquote>I here you. If I knew what was going to happen I woulda grinded the remaining xp to hit 60. Little too late for that now. I understand what they were doing, but a simple warning a few weeks prior would have been better than this cruddy WHAM, "Oh, I did you favor by not deleveling you. Deal with it." Very poorly handled.P.S. Sheesh people. A guild hall can be used by whoever and however they deem fit. Grow up.</blockquote>You do know it will take less time to level up than it would have before, right?

Elskidor

10-14-2010, 08:23 PM

<cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tikatika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This entire revamp was handled extremely poorly by the developers. It hit the level 51-59 small guilds extremely hard. I suspect that nothing will be done to rectify the damage, and that we will have to suck it up. So be it.</blockquote>I here you. If I knew what was going to happen I woulda grinded the remaining xp to hit 60. Little too late for that now. I understand what they were doing, but a simple warning a few weeks prior would have been better than this cruddy WHAM, "Oh, I did you favor by not deleveling you. Deal with it." Very poorly handled.P.S. Sheesh people. A guild hall can be used by whoever and however they deem fit. Grow up.</blockquote>You do know it will take less time to level up than it would have before, right?</blockquote>Yes, in the long run. But if you were about 20 % away from a hallmark level, and have it erased then it is a big smack to the face. Like I said, I understand why they did it but an easy warning could have been dropped in GU58 descriptions a couple weeks prior. I'm pretty sure most guilds would have made leveling a priority if they knew the details.

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 08:30 PM

<cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elskidor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tikatika@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>This entire revamp was handled extremely poorly by the developers. It hit the level 51-59 small guilds extremely hard. I suspect that nothing will be done to rectify the damage, and that we will have to suck it up. So be it.</blockquote>I here you. If I knew what was going to happen I woulda grinded the remaining xp to hit 60. Little too late for that now. I understand what they were doing, but a simple warning a few weeks prior would have been better than this cruddy WHAM, "Oh, I did you favor by not deleveling you. Deal with it." Very poorly handled.P.S. Sheesh people. A guild hall can be used by whoever and however they deem fit. Grow up.</blockquote>You do know it will take less time to level up than it would have before, right?</blockquote>Yes, in the long run. But if you were about 20 % away from a hallmark level, and have it erased then it is a big smack to the face. Like I said, I understand why they did it but an easy warning could have been dropped in GU58 descriptions a couple weeks prior. I'm pretty sure most guilds would have made leveling a priority if they knew the details.</blockquote>Er, you do know that either way there is no loss right? Some people basically gained a level, can you guys not understand what the developer posted or what?

Cronqar

10-14-2010, 09:15 PM

<cite>Jaremai@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cronqar wrote:</cite><blockquote>What you have done here is simply taking away time spend on gaining guild XP from people that probably do not spend that much time in the game. Let's call it the "average player". After running some writs yesterday after having lost about 55% towards Lvl56 it appears that the time comes to about 10hours playtime on average. It takes me about 10 minutes for 52k statuspoints which equal to about 1.38% (used to be about 1.1%) towards the next level.</blockquote>Given your numbers, it would take you just over 12hrs to solo ding the guild to level 56. If you were still at 55% and the old gain it would have taken you close to 7hrs to ding 56. So yes, today you lost 5hrs.Extrapolate those numbers to the next level.. it will take you say 13hrs to solo ding the guild to 57. Had the curve not changed it would have taken you between 16 and 17hrs - so tomorrow your net loss is 1-2hrs overall.By the time you reach 58 you'll be ahead on time and accelerating faster to 60 than you would have before.So it might sting today but in a week or two, who gives a [Removed for Content].. your (and my) small guild is 60. Woo.</blockquote>Correct but the time to get ahead on time after this initial loss is a touch more delicate. I will take in my case about 10 hours to get back where I perceived being before . After this I would gain xp at about 0.3% faster per about 10 minutes(52k status) than before the GU towards the next level. This means that it would have taken me about 75 hours to get to Lvl60, now it should take me about 64 hours. Therefore the break-even point (or where this change turns the positive corner) for time is at about 45 hours of grinding or the other way around at about Lvl59. (I haven't really verified it, just did it quick in my head)The point seems more and more that there was no warning. I am kind of ticked of mostly for turning in a large amount of status items just before the change, which I never would have done, knowing about it.

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 09:19 PM

<cite>Cronqar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jaremai@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cronqar wrote:</cite><blockquote>What you have done here is simply taking away time spend on gaining guild XP from people that probably do not spend that much time in the game. Let's call it the "average player". After running some writs yesterday after having lost about 55% towards Lvl56 it appears that the time comes to about 10hours playtime on average. It takes me about 10 minutes for 52k statuspoints which equal to about 1.38% (used to be about 1.1%) towards the next level.</blockquote>Given your numbers, it would take you just over 12hrs to solo ding the guild to level 56. If you were still at 55% and the old gain it would have taken you close to 7hrs to ding 56. So yes, today you lost 5hrs.Extrapolate those numbers to the next level.. it will take you say 13hrs to solo ding the guild to 57. Had the curve not changed it would have taken you between 16 and 17hrs - so tomorrow your net loss is 1-2hrs overall.By the time you reach 58 you'll be ahead on time and accelerating faster to 60 than you would have before.So it might sting today but in a week or two, who gives a [Removed for Content].. your (and my) small guild is 60. Woo.</blockquote>Correct but the time to get ahead on time after this initial loss is a touch more delicate. I will take in my case about 10 hours to get back where I perceived being before . After this I would gain xp at about 0.3% faster per about 10 minutes(52k status) than before the GU towards the next level. This means that it would have taken me about 75 hours to get to Lvl60, now it should take me about 64 hours. Therefore the break-even point (or where this change turns the positive corner) for time is at about 45 hours of grinding or the other way around at about Lvl59. (I haven't really verified it, just did it quick in my head)The point seems more and more that there was no warning. I am kind of ticked of mostly for turning in a large amount of status items just before the change, which I never would have done, knowing about it.</blockquote>What are you complaining about? Really? You still have the same amount of status, that was not lost at all. The levels are simply smoother. You are lucky enough that instead of deleveling you, you were allowed to keep current levels. What is hard to understand about this?

BetaTester

10-14-2010, 10:01 PM

what , that I earned over a million personal status points this month trying to level my guild ... only to be farther away from leveling than I started ?

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 10:05 PM

<cite>BetaTester wrote:</cite><blockquote>what , that I earned over a million personal status points this month trying to level my guild ... only to be farther away from leveling than I started ?</blockquote>That you are actually closer to all levels after than where you were before you mean?

BetaTester

10-14-2010, 10:18 PM

no , i mean exactly what i said . I lost guild progress to the next level for some promised ease in future levelingleveling that I probably won't be able to accomplish .earning one million status to level from 50 to 51 is doable , earning ten million to level 60 to 61 means six months , earning a hundred million to level 80 to 81 ain't gonna happen , ever .the 'chart' fails to account for the linearity of the status requirements .

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 10:25 PM

<cite>BetaTester wrote:</cite><blockquote>no , i mean exactly what i said . I lost guild progress to the next level for some promised ease in future levelingleveling that I probably won't be able to accomplish .earning one million status to level from 50 to 51 is doable , earning ten million to level 60 to 61 means six months , earning a hundred million to level 80 to 81 ain't gonna happen , ever .the 'chart' fails to account for the nonlinear status requirements .</blockquote>...Overall you gained status.See the quoted developer post.

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 10:37 PM

<cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Er, you do know that either way there is no loss right? Some people basically gained a level, can you guys not understand what the developer posted or what?</blockquote>Er, no they didn't. The levels moved. It's you that doesn't understand. Just as it takes less XP to get certain levels, it also takes MORE XP to get others. 60 being one of those.No-one lost XP. But XP isn't worth what it was. Some people lost PROGRESS toward level 60. Even AFTER being given some "bonus" XP, they still lost PROGRESS.You need to read this again:Old levels and xp needed:56..............!..57.....58....59...*60... ...........61.........62New levels and xp needed:56.........57.!........58.........59..*.... .60........61.........62Guild ! is no closer to 60 - even though they "gained" a level - that's completely cosmetic. The level that means something is 60 - and that just got further away.Guild * was really close to their new amenities, bank space and perks - but now they have the equivalent of another level to grind to get to 60. Thru no fault of their own, when previous guilds did less work to get to this target.You see where 60 is on this chart - It's not in the same place it used to be. And 90 isn't on the chart because for these people it is meaningless.

BetaTester

10-14-2010, 10:42 PM

its worse than that .that 'chart' misrepresents the distance between levelsthe distance between levels , the status requirements , grow as you level

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 10:44 PM

<cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>You do know it will take less time to level up than it would have before, right?</blockquote>Incorrect. It will take MORE time to level up to 60 than it did pre-patch.That's a fact. And that's what is being discussed.How long it takes to level up to 90 is irrelevant.

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 10:46 PM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Er, you do know that either way there is no loss right? Some people basically gained a level, can you guys not understand what the developer posted or what?</blockquote>Er, no they didn't. The levels moved. It's you that doesn't understand. Just as it takes less XP to get certain levels, it also takes MORE XP to get others. 60 being one of those.No-one lost XP. But XP isn't worth what it was. Some people lost PROGRESS toward level 60. Even AFTER being given some "bonus" XP, they still lost PROGRESS.You need to read this again:Old levels and xp needed:56..............!..57.....58....59...*60... ...........61.........62New levels and xp needed:56.........57.!........58.........59..*.... .60........61.........62Guild ! is no closer to 60 - even though they "gained" a level - that's completely cosmetic. The level that means something is 60 - and that just got further away.Guild * was really close to their new amenities, bank space and perks - but now they have the equivalent of another level to grind to get to 60. Thru no fault of their own, when previous guilds did less work to get to this target.You see where 60 is on this chart - It's not in the same place it used to be. And 90 isn't on the chart because for these people it is meaningless.</blockquote>And? What would you have suggested they do?

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 11:00 PM

<cite>BetaTester wrote:</cite><blockquote>its worse than that .that 'chart' misrepresents the distance between levelsthe distance between levels , the status requirements , grow as you level</blockquote>Indeed.That chart was "made-up" by one of the naysayers early in this thread as a demonstration of how the new curve works. It is supposed to be a representation of how the smoothing of the hell-levels has affected levelling and how no-one lost anything. Unfortunately, the OP did not include level 60 - the level being discussed. Nor how anyone working their way toward that hallmark level now has a larger gap to cover than previously. Or anyone starting to level a guild now has more work to do before they get the rewards from level 30, 40, 50 and 60 - even if they got a "free" level. In reality, they did not get any closer to their next target.If my guild was 60.7 and is now 60.0 and got bonus XP to stop us from delevelling, then the XP required for 60 is lots more than it was. No numbers required to figure that out. Indeed, if there was a danger of any guild being de-levelled then obviously some levels must have increased in the amount of XP required to gain them. Which means it is now more difficult than ever to reach mid-levels which have some associated reward.That, in my book, is an error of implementation, of judgement and of ignorance.

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 11:10 PM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>BetaTester wrote:</cite><blockquote>its worse than that .that 'chart' misrepresents the distance between levelsthe distance between levels , the status requirements , grow as you level</blockquote>Indeed.That chart was "made-up" by one of the naysayers early in this thread as a demonstration of how the new curve works. It is supposed to be a representation of how the smoothing of the hell-levels has affected levelling and how no-one lost anything. Unfortunately, the OP did not include level 60 - the level being discussed. Nor how anyone working their way toward that hallmark level now has a larger gap to cover than previously. Or anyone starting to level a guild now has more work to do before they get the rewards from level 30, 40, 50 and 60 - even if they got a "free" level. In reality, they did not get any closer to their next target.If my guild was 60.7 and is now 60.0 and got bonus XP to stop us from delevelling, then the XP required for 60 is lots more than it was. No numbers required to figure that out. Indeed, if there was a danger of any guild being de-levelled then obviously some levels must have increased in the amount of XP required to gain them. Which means it is now more difficult than ever to reach mid-levels which have some associated reward.That, in my book, is an error of implementation, of judgement and of ignorance.</blockquote>Interesting. I completely failed to see that point of view. I apologize.

MrWolfie

10-14-2010, 11:14 PM

<cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>And? What would you have suggested they do?</blockquote>Personally, I would have reduced the total amount to get to level 90 by however much to took to reduce the hell-levels. No-one could possibly get de-levelled. No level needs more XP to complete. Hell-levels are the same scale as the levels around them. Everyone wins, except people at level 90, who lose nothing having already had the benefits of being 90 for as long as they've been there.Or I'd have done nothing and left it alone - so everyone is playing on the same field as we had been for the last seven years.What I wouldn't have done is not look at demographics. Not look to see what actually happens to the levels which have some meaning and have rewards. Not check how many guilds we might have working their way up to those levels. Y'know, what I wouldn't have done is not give a [Removed for Content] about people playing the game.What I might have done is, having been told previously that there are a LOT of small guilds who struggle mightily with the system we have in place, I might have remembered they exist.But that's just me.

Vortexelemental

10-14-2010, 11:31 PM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>And? What would you have suggested they do?</blockquote>Personally, I would have reduced the total amount to get to level 90 by however much to took to reduce the hell-levels. No-one could possibly get de-levelled. No level needs more XP to complete. Hell-levels are the same scale as the levels around them. Everyone wins, except people at level 90, who lose nothing having already had the benefits of being 90 for as long as they've been there.Or I'd have done nothing and left it alone - so everyone is playing on the same field as we had been for the last seven years.What I wouldn't have done is not look at demographics. Not look to see what actually happens to the levels which have some meaning and have rewards. Not check how many guilds we might have working their way up to those levels. Y'know, what I wouldn't have done is not give a [Removed for Content] about people playing the game.What I might have done is, having been told previously that there are a LOT of small guilds who struggle mightily with the system we have in place, I might have remembered they exist.But that's just me.</blockquote>Sounds like a good series of ideas to me.

Maroger

10-14-2010, 11:43 PM

I think rather than taking progress away from GH's it would have been faired to leave the progress where it was and just give them the point needed to be at that progress level.It was wrong and hurtful to take progress away -- progress, especially for small guilds is hard won -- what SOE was a slap in the face. They need to go back and readjust it so NO GH LOSES THE PROGRESS THEY HAVE ACHIEVED.The point made by developers only addresses mathematical reality - it does not care at all about human reality of losing hours and hours of work and being told DO IT OVER AGAIn.Developers have to do more that address mathematical reality - they need to address the facts and reality in the game for human being. It is NOT all about math.

Elskidor

10-14-2010, 11:53 PM

I don't really care anymore, but I think it's funny they pretty much told us we should get on hands and knees and praise them for not deleveling us. System should have been thought out better, but, hell, most of the stuff on eq2 has been poorly handled for a little while now.

Valdaglerion

10-15-2010, 12:12 AM

<cite>Peogia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Can we please get some highly detailed diagrams of before and after of the guild hall xp up date?</blockquote>For diagrams you need Cronyn, the master of MS Paint diagrams but Xelgad just posted very specific numeric representations of the before and after.Pretty simple really. If your guild had 500 guild status before, you have 500+ after the patch. I say 500+ because if you were in a hell level that would have caused you to actually lose levels they gave FREE UNEARNED XP to those guilds to keep them from de-leveling. I doubt it had anything to do with guild hall amenities they could have run a function to merely determine all affected de-leveled guilds and reset all your amenities for you to reselect at login. After all, they did the same to determine which guilds were going to be affected and how much status was going to be needed to keep you at level.Man, next time you guys nerf my gear and weapons I spent months farming I hope you figure out how to keep my dps the same while changing the stats of the weapon for those who get it after me <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cronqar

10-15-2010, 03:32 AM

<cite>Vortexelemental@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cronqar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jaremai@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cronqar wrote:</cite><blockquote>What you have done here is simply taking away time spend on gaining guild XP from people that probably do not spend that much time in the game. Let's call it the "average player". After running some writs yesterday after having lost about 55% towards Lvl56 it appears that the time comes to about 10hours playtime on average. It takes me about 10 minutes for 52k statuspoints which equal to about 1.38% (used to be about 1.1%) towards the next level.</blockquote>Given your numbers, it would take you just over 12hrs to solo ding the guild to level 56. If you were still at 55% and the old gain it would have taken you close to 7hrs to ding 56. So yes, today you lost 5hrs.Extrapolate those numbers to the next level.. it will take you say 13hrs to solo ding the guild to 57. Had the curve not changed it would have taken you between 16 and 17hrs - so tomorrow your net loss is 1-2hrs overall.By the time you reach 58 you'll be ahead on time and accelerating faster to 60 than you would have before.So it might sting today but in a week or two, who gives a [Removed for Content].. your (and my) small guild is 60. Woo.</blockquote>Correct but the time to get ahead on time after this initial loss is a touch more delicate. I will take in my case about 10 hours to get back where I perceived being before . After this I would gain xp at about 0.3% faster per about 10 minutes(52k status) than before the GU towards the next level. This means that it would have taken me about 75 hours to get to Lvl60, now it should take me about 64 hours. Therefore the break-even point (or where this change turns the positive corner) for time is at about 45 hours of grinding or the other way around at about Lvl59. (I haven't really verified it, just did it quick in my head)The point seems more and more that there was no warning. I am kind of ticked of mostly for turning in a large amount of status items just before the change, which I never would have done, knowing about it.</blockquote>What are you complaining about? Really? You still have the same amount of status, that was not lost at all. The levels are simply smoother. You are lucky enough that instead of deleveling you, you were allowed to keep current levels. What is hard to understand about this?</blockquote>What is so hard to understand about it? Kind of want to ask the same question but since you seem to have finally turned the corner never mind the troll. Want to join the guild to grind to 60? 90 is not in the plans yet and I might get too old with the current guild-membership to actually see it which might be the reality for the negatively affected guilds.

Panii

10-15-2010, 07:35 AM

I want to say good morning, but everytime I look at the guild progress bar i want to cry <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Now ok the hell levels as they are put were horrible and we have all been through them or are going through them, and I think that yes they probably did need mending<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" />However for the love of all the dieties in Norrath why the hell did they not think to warn us!!! I do not find the "we gave you free xp to stop you de-levelling " anything less than insulting and patronising and HUGE kick in the teeth!<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" />My Guild on Splitpaw was 79% PROGRESS into 61 we had democratically decided on the next amenity and working very hard at HQ, WRITS, handing in STATUS itemsin order to acheive OUR goal all beit we have a members base active of 4 non the less we HAD a goal<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" /> We now have a progress bar of 4% this would suggest that we would have delevelled possibly.............well I am not going to say thankyou for removing the hard earned PROGRESS<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" />I now have 4 including myself VERY demoralised players whom are that much further away from our goals and are seriously considering, which we should not have to do, removing an item and purchasing another<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" />This time SOE went to far, it is NOT and i repeat NOT about the XP (although i am told that the 4% represents what i had or may not have had what the hell anyway) It is about the PROGRESS<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8f7fb9dd46fb8ef86f81154a4feaada9.gif" border="0" />My husband handed in something daft like 100 level 80 status items he had accumliated the day BEFORE!! the patch. He has said he will sell them all next time and wont bother and until we as a guild can turn the corner of this feelingwe will NOT be doing any more writs or HQ or handing in of items<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" />You really cocked up this time SOE!!please remember when flamin this post that its not the XP im so upset about its the PROGRESSlove and hugs as alwaysPan x

LordPazuzu

10-15-2010, 01:59 PM

Wow, this is almost as bad as the whining over having to "pay" for old conent every expac.From what I've gathered, the people who appear to have lost xp on the bar were actually given free exp so as not to de-level them, thus are complaining about getting free exp. Just shut up and get back to grinding and test how the progress goes and then make an educated comment on the situation after you've leveled a few times more. Then your opinion will have weight to it. Until then, it's just QQ."Oh, but my goal isn't to hit 90, I just wanna hit some other level to get a few new things, blah blah blah"90 might not be your personal goal, but 90 is the overall intended objective of the game itself. Don't pretend otherwise."Oh, but I'll lever get to 90, my guild it too small/casual/lame."Well, now it easier to get to 90, so maybe you just might be able to do it after all! Yay!

Kenrod

10-15-2010, 03:46 PM

<cite>Panii wrote:</cite><blockquote>He has said he will sell them all next time and wont bother and until we as a guild can turn the corner of this feelingwe will NOT be doing any more writs or HQ or handing in of items<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e78feac27fa924c4d0ad6cf5819f3554.gif" border="0" />You really cocked up this time SOE!!</blockquote>SO......I just want to make sure i'm reading this correctly.You're upset you lost "progress" (when actually, you didn't lose any status. but whatever, that's all moot at this point anyway), and to counter-act this, no one in your guild is going to contribute any status to the guild whatsoever?Somehow, that's SOE's fault? I just really don't get why not doing HQ's, writs, using status items, etc, will have any bearing on anything. The crying over this whole thing is so epic it's sad. Just play the game and the guild levels come. Status is literally thrown at characters just by doing zones nowadays, so why all the QQ?

Cronqar

10-15-2010, 04:07 PM

Durzin, you are excused since your guild is so well named with "Oblivious". Kenrod, what is your excuse not to understand the issue at hand? It is not the overall XP, it is the progress and the time lost to reach the next Hallmark level. This and the failed information politics are the things that bugs us affected guilds. And I as well turned in a large amount of status items just before the change. In order to illustrate my anger these were 369 City Tokens, about 50 T9 status items, 200 T8, and some 100 of T6 and T7. Feel my pain?And yes, i am happy that we were not de-leveled but merely sat at 0%, otherwise I probably would have done what I should have done a long time ago, abandon and voluntarily take one thing away that keeps me in the game.

Kenrod

10-15-2010, 04:15 PM

You didn't lose any "progress". You still have the exact same amount of status that you had 1 second before the patch went live. The curve was adjusted, nothing more. You lost exactly nothing. Not one single point of status. Technically, you GAINED status, considering you may well have been de-leveled. It's too bad you have such anger towards this, considering it will be easier for you to level your guild than it was for us to level ours. When this went live, we went from level 71 to 74, because our "progress" had already taken us through those nasty hell-levels, which are now gone.And no, I don't feel your pain. Status items give such pitifully small bumps to guild status that it's utterly laughable that you would be so angered by their loss. You get status for just doing dungeons and killing the boss now. We haven't actually tried to level our guild aside from quickly getting to level 30 for our guildhall, and we've gone from 1-75 in 4.5 months, of not actively trying.Just play the game. All the whining and bellyaching serves no purpose, and will continue to be unproductive. In all the time that's been spending whining and moaning, guilds could have already been right back to where they were just by running instances and doing writs, if that's your thing.So what's your excuse for not understanding the issue here? You didn't lose anything. You lost no guild levels. You lost no status. Nothing.Go play the game and level your guild, f that's the only thing you want to do.

gatrm

10-15-2010, 05:19 PM

I must admit I'm shocked by the responses on here. It's like an argument of logic vs emotion, and that argument can never be won....it's perpetual....it's pretty funny from the point of view of someone who cares nothing about guild levels.SOE probably should have just done away with the numerical representation of percent and used raw numbers showing the actual experience you have vs the experience needed for the next level....you know, the classic rpg style. That way, people can clearly see how much experience they have earned and how far they have left to go. There could even be a chart put into place accesible from the guild window showing the xp amounts needed for each level.

Te'ana

10-15-2010, 08:14 PM

I am part of two small guilds that have lost progress towards their goals. We are all too disheartened to get back into the grind towards our goals. We just can't face that uphill battle again at present.

Cronqar

10-15-2010, 08:35 PM

<cite>Durzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>You didn't lose any "progress". You still have the exact same amount of status that you had 1 second before the patch went live. The curve was adjusted, nothing more. You lost exactly nothing. Not one single point of status. Technically, you GAINED status, considering you may well have been de-leveled. It's too bad you have such anger towards this, considering it will be easier for you to level your guild than it was for us to level ours. When this went live, we went from level 71 to 74, because our "progress" had already taken us through those nasty hell-levels, which are now gone.And no, I don't feel your pain. Status items give such pitifully small bumps to guild status that it's utterly laughable that you would be so angered by their loss. You get status for just doing dungeons and killing the boss now. We haven't actually tried to level our guild aside from quickly getting to level 30 for our guildhall, and we've gone from 1-75 in 4.5 months, of not actively trying.Just play the game. All the whining and bellyaching serves no purpose, and will continue to be unproductive. In all the time that's been spending whining and moaning, guilds could have already been right back to where they were just by running instances and doing writs, if that's your thing.So what's your excuse for not understanding the issue here? You didn't lose anything. You lost no guild levels. You lost no status. Nothing.Go play the game and level your guild, f that's the only thing you want to do.</blockquote>You still fail to understand the difference between progress towards the "next" goal and XP overall. I estimate that with Raids, Dungeon runs and status items ( which by he way gave me about 25% laughable XP towards the next level) it will take me about 40 hours of pure grinding to come to my break even point, when this change will actually have a positive effect for me. You can break his down further to how many hours someone plays per week, how many hours are spend in raid and groups and what is left for the grind for he guild. In an ideal situation this would equate to maybe 3 months, most likely probably 6 months of seeing and feeling the benefits of this change.And so sorry that there is a tad of emotion involved even though I do think that you might be slightly exaggerating on those. To let you know "anger" and "pain" were purely intended as figures of speech, or am I OBLIVIOUS to my own issues here?**danm spellschecker never get's it wright**

Maroger

10-16-2010, 12:05 PM

<cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am part of two small guilds that have lost progress towards their goals. We are all too disheartened to get back into the grind towards our goals. We just can't face that uphill battle again at present.</blockquote>I agree with you 100%. SOE does not understand the difference between Mathematical reality ( I.e. what they just did) and the human effort and grind that goes into progressing to a certain point ( something they don't care about).SOE is only interested in mathematical reality - not in how their version of reality affects human beings who pay for and play their game.

Caytor

10-16-2010, 12:09 PM

Great job.We are a small gilld of only two casual players. Before the change we were about 4% below level 60. After the patch we found ourselves at 59,00. We lost about 96% xp.It may be right that it is better for greater guilds and on the long run to 90. Maybe you should have in mind how frustrating it is to loose the work of months for a small guild.

Elskidor

10-16-2010, 12:31 PM

<cite>Caytor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Great job.We are a small gilld of only two casual players. Before the change we were about 4% below level 60. After the patch we found ourselves at 59,00. We lost about 96% xp.It may be right that it is better for greater guilds and on the long run to 90. Maybe you should have in mind how frustrating it is to loose the work of months for a small guild.</blockquote>And bam that's the point the other side of the argument doesn't understand. 4% to level 60 all to be lost is beyond silly and a bloody kick to the teeth to a tiny casual guild like Caytor's and any other. Sure it might be easier to reach level 90 now, but do small casual guilds really have high hopes of hitting 90 any time in the foreseeable future? Only the dreamers. Most of the small guilds are more or less looking at level 60 as a major hallmark level to grant more bank space, mounts and a few more amenities, because a level like 60 with two casual players is MAJOR. Hell, 2 casual players may not see level 90 for another few years, even with this new curve, So their 60 is much like level 90. Surprised this thread is still alive though.

Notsovilepriest

10-16-2010, 02:51 PM

Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.

Crismorn

10-16-2010, 03:03 PM

Obviously were not allowed to have progress bars as they are far too confusing, please do not add them in the next mmo.

Maroger

10-16-2010, 03:04 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.</blockquote>It is NOT about the same amount of XP -- it is about PROGRESS and the amount of time you spent getting to a certain level of progress only to have SOE take it away in the search for mathematical perfection. There is no consideraion of the time and effort they STEAL FROM PLAYERS AND CASUAL GUILDS WITH THIS KIND OF CHANGE. It is basicallya theft of players time and effort - sorry you have so much trouble understanding that.

Crismorn

10-16-2010, 03:07 PM

You are right SoE should never have added the progress bar in the first place, I blame that bar for the last 11 pages of mass confusion.

Notsovilepriest

10-16-2010, 03:23 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.</blockquote>It is NOT about the same amount of XP -- it is about PROGRESS and the amount of time you spent getting to a certain level of progress only to have SOE take it away in the search for mathematical perfection. There is no consideraion of the time and effort they STEAL FROM PLAYERS AND CASUAL GUILDS WITH THIS KIND OF CHANGE. It is basicallya theft of players time and effort - sorry you have so much trouble understanding that.</blockquote>They didn't steal from anyone, people who can't understand simple numerical data are crying foul

Maroger

10-16-2010, 05:46 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.</blockquote>It is NOT about the same amount of XP -- it is about PROGRESS and the amount of time you spent getting to a certain level of progress only to have SOE take it away in the search for mathematical perfection. There is no consideraion of the time and effort they STEAL FROM PLAYERS AND CASUAL GUILDS WITH THIS KIND OF CHANGE. It is basicallya theft of players time and effort - sorry you have so much trouble understanding that.</blockquote>They didn't steal from anyone, people who can't understand simple numerical data are crying foul</blockquote>It is not crying foul -- THEY STOLE hours of players grinding work to level a small guild. That was simply not fair - I don't care how mathematiclaly accurate it is. There are some things that when you do them you need to consider the human impact- SOE has no concept of the human impact when they make these sort of mathematical changes.If you were close to your next level it would have been fairer to players in small guild to give them that next level.

Notsovilepriest

10-16-2010, 11:55 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Still mad about having the same amount of XP or even more? Holy crap.</blockquote>It is NOT about the same amount of XP -- it is about PROGRESS and the amount of time you spent getting to a certain level of progress only to have SOE take it away in the search for mathematical perfection. There is no consideraion of the time and effort they STEAL FROM PLAYERS AND CASUAL GUILDS WITH THIS KIND OF CHANGE. It is basicallya theft of players time and effort - sorry you have so much trouble understanding that.</blockquote>They didn't steal from anyone, people who can't understand simple numerical data are crying foul</blockquote>It is not crying foul -- THEY STOLE hours of players grinding work to level a small guild. That was simply not fair - I don't care how mathematiclaly accurate it is. There are some things that when you do them you need to consider the human impact- SOE has no concept of the human impact when they make these sort of mathematical changes.If you were close to your next level it would have been fairer to players in small guild to give them that next level.</blockquote>The Stole NOTHING. It will be EASIER to gain the experience as you go on than before. You didn't lose XP you are at where you were numerically or actually ahead of where you were.

Kenrod

10-17-2010, 03:09 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Stole NOTHING. It will be EASIER to gain the experience as you go on than before. You didn't lose XP you are at where you were numerically or actually ahead of where you were.</blockquote>It'll be easier just to give up tbh. I have.They don't want to see what actually happened. They just know their yellow bar went down, therefore someone took something away from them. One person in this thread even said they didn't care about the mathematical data.Eventually the QQ will all end, and this thread will finally get to rest in the land of no-one-cares-anymore.

Telnights

10-17-2010, 04:00 AM

Well what I dont udnerstand is why even do this at all. From what I have read it doesnt make it take less XP to reach 90 for most of the guilds out there. They just spread it out more evenly so you dont have hell levels. But does that really help anyone at all or just the guilds that were at there last hell level.

Illmarr

10-17-2010, 10:47 AM

<cite>Telnights wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well what I dont udnerstand is why even do this at all. From what I have read it doesnt make it take less XP to reach 90 for most of the guilds out there. They just spread it out more evenly so you dont have hell levels. But does that really help anyone at all or just the guilds that were at there last hell level.</blockquote>In theory it will help any Guild starting from this point forward as well as any guild that has already passed hell levels.My original Guild with my friends from EQ1 was already past them and at level 74, so I logged in Tuesday and found we'd gained 2 levels to 76. The Raid Guild my main is apping to was a decent amount (half to three quarters I think) into 66 and was 67 before we started raiding, but I don't think writs are set to save to event history so I'm not sure how much if any status was earned from them before raids started again. The Guild I have an alt in on Permafrost with some other friends and WoW refugees was about 15% into level 16 and saw no appreciable change whatsoever. For that Guild the road to 30 and the first Guild Hall should be much easier than in the past where there was a massive jump in exp needed to level 26-30

Trellium

10-17-2010, 01:32 PM

On the bright side, you don't have to deal with a massive hell level soon. A bit of perceived pain now for less pain later seems like a good deal to me.

Maroger

10-17-2010, 02:31 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>On the bright side, you don't have to deal with a massive hell level soon. A bit of perceived pain now for less pain later seems like a good deal to me.</blockquote>Unless you are getting the pain now by being stabbed in the back by SOE's desire for mathematical perfection and to heck with people's time and effort ( that doesn'[t matter at all to development) -- in their eyes our time is worth nothing to them as they constantly penalize it.

MrWolfie

10-17-2010, 02:41 PM

I don't see any refute to my assertion that levels with rewards now take more XP to reach than before.You say we've lost nothing, but those who want to reach 60, 65 or 70 to get the associated rewards are being asked to do more than people who went before. (And, given that we do have a progress bar, having to do more than was previously expected).It's like teasing an animal with a treat only to move it further away each time the animal makes a move for it. Sooner or later, the animal is going to bite.

MrWolfie

10-17-2010, 02:45 PM

<cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>On the bright side, you don't have to deal with a massive hell level soon. A bit of perceived pain now for less pain later seems like a good deal to me.</blockquote>Actually, hell-levels were just smoothed into the levels around them. So now the "quickie" levels are longer.If hell-levels had been removed to be the same as the normal levels around them, then removing the ones in 50-60 would have resulted in people getting to 60 quicker. This is not the case.

Notsovilepriest

10-17-2010, 02:50 PM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't see any refute to my assertion that levels with rewards now take more XP to reach than before.You say we've lost nothing, but those who want to reach 60, 65 or 70 to get the associated rewards are being asked to do more than people who went before. (And, given that we do have a progress bar, having to do more than was previously expected).It's like teasing an animal with a treat only to move it further away each time the animal makes a move for it. Sooner or later, the animal is going to bite.</blockquote>Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.

MrWolfie

10-17-2010, 03:07 PM

<cite>Durzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>Technically, you GAINED status, considering you may well have been de-leveled.</blockquote>Don't get confused with XP - it's not about XP. Status XP is a meaningless number until it's tied to rewards. And those rewards have been moved. It takes more XP to get to certain levels now - it's those levels that are being complained about.If I tell you it takes a 5 mile run to win a "Gold Cup" and you run those five miles, but I then tell you that while you were out running the rules changed and, while your five miles still count, the finish line for the Gold Cup is now 6 miles. However, everyone who ran five miles yesterday received their Gold Cup, what would you do - run another mile or complain it's unfair?Only a mug would run the extra mile.

MrWolfie

10-17-2010, 03:11 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.</blockquote>What spike? My stop was just approaching, I'm getting off the road and want recognition for the distance I've already travelled. I was never going to reach the spike up ahead.In any case, it's not a matter of "spike" or "no spike" - if you want "no spike" then there are other ways of implementing it without impacting the goals of any players.

Notsovilepriest

10-17-2010, 03:33 PM

<cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.</blockquote>What spike? My stop was just approaching, I'm getting off the road and want recognition for the distance I've already travelled. I was never going to reach the spike up ahead.In any case, it's not a matter of "spike" or "no spike" - if you want "no spike" then there are other ways of implementing it without impacting the goals of any players.</blockquote>Incorrect, There will always be a complaint from some player base, period. It's the nature of an MMO. Those that are actually motivated and have the means to reach max guild level can now easier, while those who are leveled lower didn't lose anything, but they feel like they did. You are recognized for what you already traveled, that or more, how are you people not getting that.Also I dont' get how leveling a guild is so hard anyways, A group of 6 of us leveled a guild to 30 in less than a week...I mean that doesn't seem that bad.

Maroger

10-17-2010, 05:19 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.</blockquote>What spike? My stop was just approaching, I'm getting off the road and want recognition for the distance I've already travelled. I was never going to reach the spike up ahead.In any case, it's not a matter of "spike" or "no spike" - if you want "no spike" then there are other ways of implementing it without impacting the goals of any players.</blockquote>Incorrect, There will always be a complaint from some player base, period. It's the nature of an MMO. Those that are actually motivated and have the means to reach max guild level can now easier, while those who are leveled lower didn't lose anything, but they feel like they did. You are recognized for what you already traveled, that or more, how are you people not getting that.Also I dont' get how leveling a guild is so hard anyways, A group of 6 of us leveled a guild to 30 in less than a week...I mean that doesn't seem that bad.</blockquote>Getting to 30 is not hard - you can buy tokens to speed it up -- getting to 30 is the easy part. Going from 50-60 is the hard part and being cheated out of work by SOE make their change a huge slap in the face. Sorry you have so much trouble comprehending that.Other posted have given enough great example for you to easily understand that SOE has demeaned the player's work and efforts to level a small guild by stealing the progress they had obtained in the name of mathematical purity.

Notsovilepriest

10-17-2010, 05:22 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aemm@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Or like taking what should be a line actually look like a line instead of a line then a huge spike. You are still at the same point on the line, just down the road your not going to hit the huge spike. Yes in the immediate it may suck a little, but get over it.</blockquote>What spike? My stop was just approaching, I'm getting off the road and want recognition for the distance I've already travelled. I was never going to reach the spike up ahead.In any case, it's not a matter of "spike" or "no spike" - if you want "no spike" then there are other ways of implementing it without impacting the goals of any players.</blockquote>Incorrect, There will always be a complaint from some player base, period. It's the nature of an MMO. Those that are actually motivated and have the means to reach max guild level can now easier, while those who are leveled lower didn't lose anything, but they feel like they did. You are recognized for what you already traveled, that or more, how are you people not getting that.Also I dont' get how leveling a guild is so hard anyways, A group of 6 of us leveled a guild to 30 in less than a week...I mean that doesn't seem that bad.</blockquote>Getting to 30 is not hard - you can buy tokens to speed it up -- getting to 30 is the easy part. Going from 50-60 is the hard part and being cheated out of work by SOE make their change a huge slap in the face. Sorry you have so much trouble comprehending that.Other posted have given enough great example for you to easily understand that SOE has demeaned the player's work and efforts to level a small guild by stealing the progress they had obtained in the name of mathematical purity.</blockquote>I can't comprehend illogical thoughts easy, I appologize.

Te'ana

10-17-2010, 06:19 PM

Well, since Notsoevilpriest is an Erudite, I can see why mathmatical purity is all he can understand <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

greenmantle

10-17-2010, 07:48 PM

What i cant understand is why not just leave everyones levels were they were?Then SOE could say new curve wheee most of you got free guild xp arent we nice.The but we made it easier to get to 90 doesnt wash.Like many guilds my current had 30-40 people the first year now its down to 3 full time 3 part time people. We dont raid much 90 is probably never going to happen, to put it in easy terms.Im saving for a beaten up second hand toyota its not what the big boys have but it will be mine. Soe just went into my savings acount and took out some of the money i had saved and is telling me its ok we made the Porche cheeper.[Removed for Content] i dont want the porche i never did i just wanted my clapped out toyota.

Dreyco

10-17-2010, 08:34 PM

<cite>greenmantle wrote:</cite><blockquote>What i cant understand is why not just leave everyones levels were they were?Then SOE could say new curve wheee most of you got free guild xp arent we nice.The but we made it easier to get to 90 doesnt wash.Like many guilds my current had 30-40 people the first year now its down to 3 full time 3 part time people. We dont raid much 90 is probably never going to happen, to put it in easy terms.Im saving for a beaten up second hand toyota its not what the big boys have but it will be mine. Soe just went into my savings acount and took out some of the money i had saved and is telling me its ok we made the Porche cheeper.[Removed for Content] i dont want the porche i never did i just wanted my clapped out toyota.</blockquote>Because like most things, Experience is numeric. It is a number that you gain in status points. That status point represents where the game understands you are in guild level.In changing the curve, you change where the game interprets that flat status. You're in the same spot you were before, the curve has just changed, and grown easier. Therefor, getting back to where you are, and beyond, is now easier.

Notsovilepriest

10-17-2010, 10:59 PM

Kenrod

10-18-2010, 01:19 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>greenmantle wrote:</cite><blockquote>What i cant understand is why not just leave everyones levels were they were?Then SOE could say new curve wheee most of you got free guild xp arent we nice.The but we made it easier to get to 90 doesnt wash.Like many guilds my current had 30-40 people the first year now its down to 3 full time 3 part time people. We dont raid much 90 is probably never going to happen, to put it in easy terms.Im saving for a beaten up second hand toyota its not what the big boys have but it will be mine. Soe just went into my savings acount and took out some of the money i had saved and is telling me its ok we made the Porche cheeper.[Removed for Content] i dont want the porche i never did i just wanted my clapped out toyota.</blockquote>Because like most things, Experience is numeric. It is a number that you gain in status points. That status point represents where the game understands you are in guild level.In changing the curve, you change where the game interprets that flat status. You're in the same spot you were before, the curve has just changed, and grown easier. Therefor, getting back to where you are, and beyond, is now easier.</blockquote>THIS GUY GETS IT!</blockquote>It's going to be MUCH easier I think.We were right at 75 tonight, and after clearing Tox and PCAL, we were at 76.5.That's a LOT of status in one night. Way more than we've been seeing.

SlashnGut

10-18-2010, 03:38 AM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>It seems hard to believe that moving from 65% of level 55 to 0% of level 55 is actually an improvement. You should have let folks retain thier progress.</blockquote>If you saw the old leveling curve and the new one, it would be easier to understand. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> </blockquote>BS - it should have been left as it was as far as amount of xp the guild already had to next level. Once again sony screwed the pooch as they are wont to do on most supposed fixes they make. Only way to fix something is by completely screwing something else up.

Trellium

10-18-2010, 01:59 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trellium wrote:</cite><blockquote>On the bright side, you don't have to deal with a massive hell level soon. A bit of perceived pain now for less pain later seems like a good deal to me.</blockquote>Unless you are getting the pain now by being stabbed in the back by SOE's desire for mathematical perfection and to heck with people's time and effort ( that doesn'[t matter at all to development) -- in their eyes our time is worth nothing to them as they constantly penalize it.</blockquote>Did you notice that your response is nothing more than cheezy hyperbole? There is no stabbing going on, the overall rate is clearly better than it was. You didn't lose a level because they buffered you up just to prevent that.If you stop dwelling purely on the negatives (and exaggerating them to new heights), you will see that you can make up that tiny bit of "lost experience", and have an easier time of it from then onward.Or, maybe you should pat yourself on the back for your collosal heroics by overcoming this terrible tragedy so you can look back and tell everyone how you didn't have it easy like those who came before. "The game is too hard now!!". Try out that statement, see how people react. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" />

Maroger

10-18-2010, 02:34 PM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>greenmantle wrote:</cite><blockquote>What i cant understand is why not just leave everyones levels were they were?Then SOE could say new curve wheee most of you got free guild xp arent we nice.The but we made it easier to get to 90 doesnt wash.Like many guilds my current had 30-40 people the first year now its down to 3 full time 3 part time people. We dont raid much 90 is probably never going to happen, to put it in easy terms.Im saving for a beaten up second hand toyota its not what the big boys have but it will be mine. Soe just went into my savings acount and took out some of the money i had saved and is telling me its ok we made the Porche cheeper.[Removed for Content] i dont want the porche i never did i just wanted my clapped out toyota.</blockquote>Because like most things, Experience is numeric. It is a number that you gain in status points. That status point represents where the game understands you are in guild level.In changing the curve, you change where the game interprets that flat status. You're in the same spot you were before, the curve has just changed, and grown easier. Therefor, getting back to where you are, and beyond, is now easier.</blockquote>This is only true in a mathematical sense. NOT IN A PRACTICAL SENSE. If you have spent X hour to reach 75% of level 51 and then you wake up after the nerf to find out that instead of 75% of level 51 you are at 0% -- you have basically had X hours of work stolen from you and belittled by SOE. You now have to do the same work all over again - sure it may go faster (X -Y ) hours but you still have had X hours stolen you and been belitted by SOE for your effort.The issue is not Mathematcial purity - but acknowledgemen of player time and effort and not stripping them of that effort. No matter how mathematically correct it may be -- it still steals players time and efffort away from them and SOE should NOT do this.

Cabral

10-18-2010, 02:52 PM

Xelgad's and Rothgar's focus on the numbers behind guild levels show that they are detached from player objectives, focusing on the coding side and underlying principles rather than the objectives as they matter to the players (or, IMO, most players).I don't care whether Guild Level 53 is a result of 8 thousand, 8 million or 8 billion status. I care that my guild was level 53 and about 90% towards 54. I care that now it is further away from 54, close to a full level of progress was lost. There is no confusion. I understand exactly what happened. I understand exactly why it shouldn't have happened.The developers did this in the past. As mentioned earlier in the thread, they adjusted the experience required to level characters. I believe they first smoothed out the levels to remove hell levels and later reduced the experience required to level. When this happened, no one lost a level, no one gained a level. Everyone stayed where they were, level, percentage and all. This was the correct and fair way to adjust the experience curve. No one lost or gained progress and objectives were achieved.The developers appear to be incapable of perceiving this from the point of view of the player, so I will try to explain it from the point of view of a developer. You don't create a game, or an expansion to one, by focusing on your overall progress. 1% towards completion gets old very quick. Similarly, 1% towards guild level 90 is not the focus of most players. In both cases, it something to keep an eye on, but you focus on the small tasks, the next model created, the next animation programmed, the next quest coded, or, for the players, the next guild level.If someone comes in says they have a new way of designing the game that will make the whole process faster, you will rejoice. If they tell you that it means scrapping the new mount which took a month to design and was 90% complete, it would hurt. When you take away most of the progress towards the next level that took a month or more to accrue, it hurts us; it demoralizes us.Now the developers have given some guilds progress, they did not earn under the old curve and taken progress from other guilds, creating new hell levels. The developers cannot take back the levels they gave to some guilds but they can, and should, give back the progress lost by smaller guilds in the change. The developers handled things correctly when adjusting adventure experience, why was guild experience handled poorly?Life isn't fair. Our escape, our coping mechanism, our safe haven should be. Give us back the progress towards the next guild level, percentages and all.

Shareana

10-18-2010, 03:06 PM

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5438631" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5438631</a> More constructive, less insults please <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Notsovilepriest

10-18-2010, 04:18 PM

Short Sited people are short sited.Computer, Programs, and many things run purely off number. The guild XP bar was nothing more than a visual representation of numbers. The numbers are the same or higher than what every guild had, just because the picture is different doesn't mean it's not the same.Nobody screwed anyone over, It's in your head.

Crismorn

10-18-2010, 04:25 PM

<cite>Shareana wrote:</cite><blockquote>This post has moved:<a rel="nofollow" href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5438631" target="_blank">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5438631</a>More constructive, less insults please <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Sorry, I will make sure not to use the same analogy that the person I'm quoting used.Apparently that is not allowed here.

Eritius

10-18-2010, 04:26 PM

<cite>Cabral wrote:</cite><blockquote>Xelgad's and Rothgar's focus on the numbers behind guild levels show that they are detached from player objectives, focusing on the coding side and underlying principles rather than the objectives as they matter to the players (or, IMO, most players).I don't care whether Guild Level 53 is a result of 8 thousand, 8 million or 8 billion status. I care that my guild was level 53 and about 90% towards 54. I care that now it is further away from 54, close to a full level of progress was lost. There is no confusion. I understand exactly what happened. I understand exactly why it shouldn't have happened.The developers did this in the past. As mentioned earlier in the thread, they adjusted the experience required to level characters. I believe they first smoothed out the levels to remove hell levels and later reduced the experience required to level. When this happened, no one lost a level, no one gained a level. Everyone stayed where they were, level, percentage and all. This was the correct and fair way to adjust the experience curve. No one lost or gained progress and objectives were achieved.The developers appear to be incapable of perceiving this from the point of view of the player, so I will try to explain it from the point of view of a developer. You don't create a game, or an expansion to one, by focusing on your overall progress. 1% towards completion gets old very quick. Similarly, 1% towards guild level 90 is not the focus of most players. In both cases, it something to keep an eye on, but you focus on the small tasks, the next model created, the next animation programmed, the next quest coded, or, for the players, the next guild level.If someone comes in says they have a new way of designing the game that will make the whole process faster, you will rejoice. If they tell you that it means scrapping the new mount which took a month to design and was 90% complete, it would hurt. When you take away most of the progress towards the next level that took a month or more to accrue, it hurts us; it demoralizes us.Now the developers have given some guilds progress, they did not earn under the old curve and taken progress from other guilds, creating new hell levels. The developers cannot take back the levels they gave to some guilds but they can, and should, give back the progress lost by smaller guilds in the change. The developers handled things correctly when adjusting adventure experience, why was guild experience handled poorly?Life isn't fair. Our escape, our coping mechanism, our safe haven should be. Give us back the progress towards the next guild level, percentages and all.</blockquote>So you can have an easier time reaching 90 then the ones that were already 90 with their guilds?Umm no.For those guilds that had their exp set back to 0% of level they got bonus exp they don't have to grind out. Here's how:Lets assume it takes 10,000 level 90 writs to level a guild from 1-90 for the sake of arguement.In the old system lets say you were 60 with 85% exp to 61. You had 4,900 writs completed.Under the new system it is more streamlined with its curves so you need 5,500 writs to get to 60. This is why they set you back to 0%. By RIGHT they should have deleveled your guild to whatever your exp value rated you for. But they didn't do that. Instead you now have to complete 400 writs less to hit 90 then before. Why is this?Because in this arguement you still only need 10,000 writs to hit 90.If they set you at the same percentage as before, instead of having to do 400 writs less in this example, it would be closer to 600. How is this fair to those that were already 90 for your little guild to get free exp? You already got free exp. The only ones that did not were the low level guilds that got boosted a level or two.Again I'm being liberal with the numbers I'm picking for the sake of arguement and clarity.So NO you don't get set back to the previous percentage value. No you don't get free exp that would come with it. And yes you get to put in the same work as everyone else.Good day.

Cabral

10-18-2010, 07:26 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>So NO you don't get set back to the previous percentage value. No you don't get free exp that would come with it. And yes you get to put in the same work as everyone else.Good day.</blockquote>Is that what your argument is about? You resent that people will have an easier time reaching 90 and wish to restrict as many people as possible?We should have our achievements preserved. We did not ask to have the XP adjusted, all we ask is that we be allowed to retain our progress - progress from OUR point of view, not the developers and coders. Progress in terms of levels and percentages.Return that to us.

Gerra

10-18-2010, 09:39 PM

<cite>Cabral wrote:</cite><blockquote>The developers did this in the past. As mentioned earlier in the thread, they adjusted the experience required to level characters. I believe they first smoothed out the levels to remove hell levels and later reduced the experience required to level. When this happened, no one lost a level, no one gained a level. Everyone stayed where they were, level, percentage and all. This was the correct and fair way to adjust the experience curve. No one lost or gained progress and objectives were achieved.T</blockquote>This is completely false. I distinctly remember some of my characters loosing progress toward the next level. I also remember some gaining and even upon getting XP for a discovery or quest turn in getting 50% or more XP gaining a level or even almost 2. But afterward leveling was much faster so those that lost some progress hardly even noticed. Same as what has happened now.

Cabral

10-19-2010, 12:33 AM

<cite>Gerra wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cabral wrote:</cite><blockquote>The developers did this in the past. As mentioned earlier in the thread, they adjusted the experience required to level characters. I believe they first smoothed out the levels to remove hell levels and later reduced the experience required to level. When this happened, no one lost a level, no one gained a level. Everyone stayed where they were, level, percentage and all. This was the correct and fair way to adjust the experience curve. No one lost or gained progress and objectives were achieved.T</blockquote>This is completely false. I distinctly remember some of my characters loosing progress toward the next level. I also remember some gaining and even upon getting XP for a discovery or quest turn in getting 50% or more XP gaining a level or even almost 2. But afterward leveling was much faster so those that lost some progress hardly even noticed. Same as what has happened now.</blockquote>It was some time ago and it is quite possible I remember the events incorrectly. I am fairly certain, however, that there was not mass level gains when the XP required to level (to 70?) was reduced. In any case, I still maintain that the situation I described is the correct method for handling a change to the XP requirements. No one gains progress; no one loses progress. Only events from here on out should be affected.Anything else is shifting the goal post.

thajo

10-19-2010, 01:34 AM

Easy, just do everyone who is complaining a favor and program their guild XP back to the old curve and 6 months later when everyone who was appreciative has gained 3x the levels of the complainers who had theirs reverted to the old way I'm sure the change will make more sense.I don't understand the math perfectly but the concept seems to work out logically. But I don't take out my lack of mathematical understanding as anger on a forum towards devs and people trying to explain in lamens terms. /shrug. My guild XP got reset to the base of the level but its great seeing the bar actually move when I solo status rewarding things for 13 - 18k a pop and its quite clear all is well.

Stormdove

10-19-2010, 08:59 AM

I am one of those whose guild lost progress toward the next level. My guild went from being one of the first, strongest and largest on Innothule server to its current status of 2 active members. We've been through all of the guild xp changes. All I can say is Thank You.I for one appreciate the fact it will now be easier for my little remnant of a guild to gain levels and I very much appreciate that we didn't delevel. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

MrWolfie

10-19-2010, 09:22 AM

<cite>Dreyco wrote:</cite><blockquote>In changing the curve, you change where the game interprets that flat status. You're in the same spot you were before, the curve has just changed, and grown easier.</blockquote>Or harder, depending on where you are aiming for. It is harder to reach 60 than it was before, because it takes more xp than before.Anyone starting out now has to do more work to reach 60 than before, and less work to reach 90 than before.Unfortunately 90 is still out of reach of small guilds, so the fact that it is easier to reach is a moot point.

Eritius

10-19-2010, 02:50 PM

<cite>Cabral wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>So NO you don't get set back to the previous percentage value. No you don't get free exp that would come with it. And yes you get to put in the same work as everyone else.Good day.</blockquote>Is that what your argument is about? You resent that people will have an easier time reaching 90 and wish to restrict as many people as possible?We should have our achievements preserved. We did not ask to have the XP adjusted, all we ask is that we be allowed to retain our progress - progress from OUR point of view, not the developers and coders. Progress in terms of levels and percentages.Return that to us.</blockquote>Patch happened, you'll need to adapt and overcome. Paladins managed when they're heals were not allowed to crit. At least you can get your 'percieved' progress back. They'll never be able to get their crit heals back themselves.Developers and Coder's point of view > Yours. Fortunately.

Wildphy

10-19-2010, 04:22 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Short Sited people are short sited.Computer, Programs, and many things run purely off number. The guild XP bar was nothing more than a visual representation of numbers. The numbers are the same or higher than what every guild had, just because the picture is different doesn't mean it's not the same.Nobody screwed anyone over, It's in your head.</blockquote>but it is the "visual representation" that is tied to the reward system. SOE created the game that way - they use PERCENTAGES displayed to the end user to allow each participant to plan their adventuring accordingly. in this scenario - the visual representation has now put folks BEHIND where they were. Perception / numbers / or not - if your one and only goal was to reach the next immediate milestone in a certain range - then the progress towards that milestone has indeed been lengthened.you can't just cut a bone out of a thigh and tack it onto the shin bones and say - SEE - you're the same height - what are you complaining about?

Crismorn

10-19-2010, 04:25 PM

13 pages of people not understanding how the bar is just a bar, nice no wonder we cant have anything useful you would all think it was a nerf.

Thundermouse

10-19-2010, 05:26 PM

I am a 1 man guild lvl 52. I was on 92% which meant in about 20 writs I would have hit 53. Since I was reset back to 00.00 I have done around 30-40 writs and I am on on 20%. Now correct me if I am wrong but with the writs I have done I would have levelled. How is that fair?So if someone was on lvl 52 with 1% through that lvl they have reset to 00.00 losing 1% while at the same time I have lost 92%? If this is correct is this fair? I have worked hard and long to get a decent % putting in hours upon hours of writ/heritage and also spending money on relics to get where I am just to see it go in a puff of smoke. Yes it may make it easier to get lvls from now o9n but I feel I have been penalised a lot more than most by having a higher % taken from me.Is this the case or am I missing something?

Rothgar

10-19-2010, 07:43 PM

This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.

Xalmat

10-19-2010, 07:45 PM

A guild bonus XP weekend eh? That's a first.

PlaneCrazy

10-19-2010, 08:09 PM

Vinyard

10-19-2010, 08:14 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.</blockquote>I am really sad to see you guys cave in (once again!) to the loud vocal minority of whiners on this forum. Most reasonably intelligent people realized that this change to guild XP was good for everyone and yet a few not so intelligent people who can only see the next level and not the overall picture cry loudly until SOE caves and gives them a lolipop.Pathetic</blockquote>Get a grip, it's GUILD exp...what's the big deal?Thanks for the Update Rothgar! I'll definately take advantage of this.

PlaneCrazy

10-19-2010, 08:29 PM

<cite>Vinyard@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.</blockquote>I am really sad to see you guys cave in (once again!) to the loud vocal minority of whiners on this forum. Most reasonably intelligent people realized that this change to guild XP was good for everyone and yet a few not so intelligent people who can only see the next level and not the overall picture cry loudly until SOE caves and gives them a lolipop.Pathetic</blockquote>Get a grip, it's GUILD exp...what's the big deal?Thanks for the Update Rothgar! I'll definately take advantage of this.</blockquote> Because eventually, the way things keep going... you'll start to see 1 and 2 man guilds at level 90. And that should never happen, IMO. My 2 man guild is going to hit 40 in the next day or two and I thought it would never get above 30 when I started it just over a year ago. Guild leveling should be up there with AA in difficulty and time required to get.It's like when you create a new toon these days.... If you just do the intro quests, you are like level 3 before you even walk 20 feet from where you spawn. Level 10 in about 20 mins and level 20 in about 4 hours played.This crazyness with giving in to every little demand from the "gimme generation" of players has got to stop.

Illmarr

10-19-2010, 08:45 PM

<cite>Thundermouse wrote:</cite><blockquote>I am a 1 man guild lvl 52. I was on 92% which meant in about 20 writs I would have hit 53. Since I was reset back to 00.00 I have done around 30-40 writs and I am on on 20%. Now correct me if I am wrong but with the writs I have done I would have levelled. How is that fair?So if someone was on lvl 52 with 1% through that lvl they have reset to 00.00 losing 1% while at the same time I have lost 92%? If this is correct is this fair? I have worked hard and long to get a decent % putting in hours upon hours of writ/heritage and also spending money on relics to get where I am just to see it go in a puff of smoke. Yes it may make it easier to get lvls from now o9n but I feel I have been penalised a lot more than most by having a higher % taken from me.Is this the case or am I missing something?</blockquote>Ok, since you're not sure yourself of your numbers...Say 20 writs for you to get your final 8% to 53. To make the math a little easier we'll assume the same exp needed to fill 54 and all subsequent levels until you get caught up. So already you're getting the benefit of the doubt in all these calculations. Anyway, 20 writs for 8% exp = 250 writs for a complete level.Now, if 30 writs got you 20% back into your level you're looking at 150 to fill an entire level. If 35 writs for 20% you're looking at 175 per level. If 40 you're looking at 200 writs per level. Yes you would have leveled with 20 more writs. Then it would have taken another 250 to complete level 53. Another 250 to complete level 54. So with 520 writs completed you are now freshly ding'd at 55.By comparison, using 30 writs for 20% it takes you 150 to re-complete level 52, 150 to do 53 and 150 to finish 54. Do another 70 and you are close to halfway through level 55, not frishly dinged into it.at 35 writs for 20%? 175 to re-do 52, 175 to do 53, 175 to do 54. Now freshly dinged at 55 with 525 writs completed. 5 more than you would have had to do under the old system.Worst case by your numbers. At 40 writs for 20%. 600 total writs for 52, 53, and 54. So you're 80 writs difference. You make up 50 of those doing level 55, so now you've done 30 more than you would have. You hit the break even point at level 56.6. So it's not that you will not see any benefit until level 90, or even level 60. It takes 4.6 levels to catch your progress up, with the benefit of a smoother, more linear progression thereafter.The someone 1% in instead of 92% is the beneficiary of even more make-up status given to keep their guild from de-leveling than yours was.Anyway, most of this is a moot point with Rothgar's announcement.

Anestacia

10-19-2010, 08:48 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vinyard@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.</blockquote>I am really sad to see you guys cave in (once again!) to the loud vocal minority of whiners on this forum. Most reasonably intelligent people realized that this change to guild XP was good for everyone and yet a few not so intelligent people who can only see the next level and not the overall picture cry loudly until SOE caves and gives them a lolipop.Pathetic</blockquote>Get a grip, it's GUILD exp...what's the big deal?Thanks for the Update Rothgar! I'll definately take advantage of this.</blockquote> Because eventually, the way things keep going... you'll start to see 1 and 2 man guilds at level 90. And that should never happen, IMO. My 2 man guild is going to hit 40 in the next day or two and I thought it would never get above 30 when I started it just over a year ago. Guild leveling should be up there with AA in difficulty and time required to get.It's like when you create a new toon these days.... If you just do the intro quests, you are like level 3 before you even walk 20 feet from where you spawn. Level 10 in about 20 mins and level 20 in about 4 hours played.This crazyness with giving in to every little demand from the "gimme generation" of players has got to stop.</blockquote>So guilds are getting a bonus exp weekend. It is in no way any different than when we get one for AA, Adventure, or Tradeskills. Guilds have always worked on an experience type basis just like the other three so why not? IMO its long overdue.

Cronqar

10-19-2010, 10:16 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vinyard@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.</blockquote>I am really sad to see you guys cave in (once again!) to the loud vocal minority of whiners on this forum. Most reasonably intelligent people realized that this change to guild XP was good for everyone and yet a few not so intelligent people who can only see the next level and not the overall picture cry loudly until SOE caves and gives them a lolipop.Pathetic</blockquote>Get a grip, it's GUILD exp...what's the big deal?Thanks for the Update Rothgar! I'll definately take advantage of this.</blockquote> Because eventually, the way things keep going... you'll start to see 1 and 2 man guilds at level 90. And that should never happen, IMO. My 2 man guild is going to hit 40 in the next day or two and I thought it would never get above 30 when I started it just over a year ago. Guild leveling should be up there with AA in difficulty and time required to get.It's like when you create a new toon these days.... If you just do the intro quests, you are like level 3 before you even walk 20 feet from where you spawn. Level 10 in about 20 mins and level 20 in about 4 hours played.This crazyness with giving in to every little demand from the "gimme generation" of players has got to stop.</blockquote>First of all. Thank you, Rothgar! I think you have understood the issue at hand and this might just make up for the time lost towards progression.This apparently is not the case with you Planecrazy. You will not ever see a rush of small guilds with 1-3 accounts rushing towards 90. This is simply time prohibitive. Take about 20 hours per level, if they were linear, and multiply by 90. Remember this is an ideal scenario where your char has the ability and you have the stamina to grind this out. And yes there will be the occasional small guild going to put the time in and level to 90. What is your problem with that? Guildleveling was, and still is, a lot harder than reaching 250AA.

Te'ana

10-19-2010, 10:48 PM

<cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.</blockquote>Thanks, we will definitely take advantage of this.I know you are between a rock and hard place over this, but really, you should have anticipated how this would be viewed by guilds pushed down to fit the new curve as most people who have attended college have experienced this and hated the result. After all, if you scored a 90 on an exam and then were told after grades were posted that your goal for making an A leaped from 90 to 95 because your class was smarter than average you would be very angry. I know I was when that happened to me and I never force my students down to fit a curve because it is inherently unfair.However, my guildies and I do accept that this is a peace offering. But we believe that you still should have returned us to our former levels of progress. If that is not possible due to how the data is stored then you should just tell us because this still doesn't address the core issue with those of us who were pushed down to fit the new curve and lost progress. It appears to us that this bonus weekend is most beneficial to those guilds who were pushed up to fit the new curve and now will have even less requirements to move ahead as we struggle to regain lost ground.

Notsovilepriest

10-19-2010, 11:00 PM

Whiners win, Cave to the WoW crowd, Woot!

Anestacia

10-19-2010, 11:15 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whiners win, Cave to the WoW crowd, Woot!</blockquote>If they never caved in then what would YOU whine about I wonder.

Notsovilepriest

10-20-2010, 01:07 AM

<cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whiners win, Cave to the WoW crowd, Woot!</blockquote>If they never caved in then what would YOU whine about I wonder.</blockquote>I wasn't whining, It's sad to see SoE caving to people who can't understand numbers.

@jax

10-20-2010, 03:41 AM

I'd just like to see amount of xp needed for each level so you have a target to work towards.Anyone have the math on that.Maybe one of the Devs or someone from SOE can enlighten us all.

thajo

10-20-2010, 05:33 AM

..edit

MrWolfie

10-20-2010, 07:25 AM

...and how does this help a small guild who start after next weekend?...how does this help the casual guild who aren't on next weekend? (y'know, the definition of casual ruling out long, dedicated and/or regular playtime).It doesn't. It doesn't alter the fact that the current curve is more unfair on smaller guilds than the previous one. The offer is just more SOE misdirection.This "bone" doesn't help anyone who cannot exploit the timeframe or those who come after us - and we should be ashamed that we're not standing up for them too.Again, I reiterate that none of this really affects me, my small guild were already over 60 and happy with that achievement - but I am saddened that so many seem to think only of themselves and continually fail to empathise with people who have a different approach to the game than they do.Why am I so vocal when it doesn't affect me?Because it's what's right that counts.The evidence in this thread is irrefutable. This change is unfair to some players.It was made without thought or care toward those players (current and future).All development that is done this way should be pilloried.

Nebbeny

10-20-2010, 09:33 AM

How does this NOT help small guilds? I'm currently messing around leveling my own alt guild, spreading the message about frogloks etc. and from level 20 onwards it'd been a pain in the rear to level, i mean i'm not happy that the data i'd been gathering on how much it took to level is now disappeared, or that i'm missing 2 of my guilds dings events (was using them to track my progress) but again, that i went up 2 levels shows that somewhere along the line i'd hit a number of hell levels early on. So yeah, this helps new guilds much more than you suggest.

Whilhelmina

10-20-2010, 09:43 AM

Thanks a lot Rothgar <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> That's great news.Yeah, I "lost" status on my Guild on live (76%) but I'm glad I did not loose levels too and got a boost instead even if it doesn't looks like that. I'm also looking on working at last on my Test guild so, yeah for bonus Guild XP!

Eveningsong

10-20-2010, 12:14 PM

Oh man, it would have to be the same weekend as the end to the haunted house decorating contest <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now I'm going to have to stay up late all week to get my house done, so I can stay up all weekend to grind writs! lol

Thundermouse

10-20-2010, 01:32 PM

<cite>Vinyard@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.</blockquote>I am really sad to see you guys cave in (once again!) to the loud vocal minority of whiners on this forum. Most reasonably intelligent people realized that this change to guild XP was good for everyone and yet a few not so intelligent people who can only see the next level and not the overall picture cry loudly until SOE caves and gives them a lolipop.Pathetic</blockquote>Get a grip, it's GUILD exp...what's the big deal?Thanks for the Update Rothgar! I'll definately take advantage of this.</blockquote>So if you are lvl 90 and logged in to find yourself at lvl 1 would you be happy? No didn't think so! Yes there is a vast difference but some people can get to lvl 90 before a lvl 52 can guild ding thats for sure. I lost effectively 2-3 months worth or writs which is a lot of time wasted on the game. Think outside the box before you start slagging people off bumder

Cronqar

10-20-2010, 01:50 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whiners win, Cave to the WoW crowd, Woot!</blockquote>If they never caved in then what would YOU whine about I wonder.</blockquote>I wasn't whining, It's sad to see SoE caving to people who can't understand numbers.</blockquote>I still believe it is actually you who can't understand the difference between numbers and progress but nevermind that. I am pretty sure that you are also understanding rules and can't wait until SOE introduces the title "The Priest". With that you would be in direct violation of the naming policy but I am sure that you will fully understand.Anyway, with getting the extra 50% guild XP, every guild has the chance to make up lost ground towards the progress, which will significantly reduce the actual played time lost until you hit the positive side of this change. And this is all that matters.

Bratface

10-20-2010, 03:18 PM

Notsovilepriest

10-20-2010, 03:44 PM

<cite>Cronqar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Anestacia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whiners win, Cave to the WoW crowd, Woot!</blockquote>If they never caved in then what would YOU whine about I wonder.</blockquote>I wasn't whining, It's sad to see SoE caving to people who can't understand numbers.</blockquote>I still believe it is actually you who can't understand the difference between numbers and progress but nevermind that. I am pretty sure that you are also understanding rules and can't wait until SOE introduces the title "The Priest". With that you would be in direct violation of the naming policy but I am sure that you will fully understand.Anyway, with getting the extra 50% guild XP, every guild has the chance to make up lost ground towards the progress, which will significantly reduce the actual played time lost until you hit the positive side of this change. And this is all that matters. </blockquote>There is positive side on the low end in the 30s too, but still I don't know how I'm the one that doesn't understand progress when it's a fact, you guys have as much if not more status credit than you guys ever earned. Just because the picture is different doesn't mean that the numbers are. Then again, 3rd grade concepts can be hard /shrug

Te'ana

10-21-2010, 01:01 PM

The problem is that folks focusing on pure numbers are stuck at the third grade math.University level mathematics and a psychology class or two would be helpful to understand the difference between numbers and progress.

CoLD MeTaL

10-21-2010, 01:13 PM

Cabral

10-21-2010, 02:03 PM

<cite>Lateana@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>The problem is that folks focusing on pure numbers are stuck at the third grade math.University level mathematics and a psychology class or two would be helpful to understand the difference between numbers and progress.</blockquote>I would have thought that any education or experience in game design would enlighten someone as to the difference between the User experience and the code that generates it.I suspect that this bonus weekend is all they can justify - comparing the old xp numbers, if they retained them, versus the new would likely be too time consuming. Comparing the old number, determining the old percentage and providing bonus xp, if necessary, sounds simple enough but I doubt it would be that easy.Instead, they offer a bonus experience weekend. Spend a weekend where it takes half as long to get to where you used to be. I hope you didn't have plans ... My wife still won't talk about guild status or writs. I doubt we'll catch up to where we were in this weekend. 10% in now, "just" 80% to go until we are where we started.Thank you, Rothgar, for your efforts to mitigate the negative impact of SOE's changes. I think it stings less, but I don't really notice it. The morale is not restored. Please keep this in mind the next time you change anything.Developers interact with the code and numbers. Players interact with the results of those codes and numbers. Players do not care if you've got a clever new formula for a game mechanic. We care if performance improves, if graphics look nicer or, in this case, if their guild level, and percentage into the next, changes. It is what the player sees, the percentage, that is sacred, not the numbers behind it.

Illmarr

10-21-2010, 02:14 PM

Te'ana

10-21-2010, 02:30 PM

You are right that the two viewpoints will never convince each other. BUT, the idea of progress is real and has been quatified here already. However, emotional gut level reaction to it should have been anticipated via even a tiny smattereing of psychology study.

Notsovilepriest

10-21-2010, 06:22 PM

I know it's a pain to level a guild, but the fact remains nothing was lost no matter how it feels.

Valdaglerion

10-21-2010, 07:00 PM

Well, I will encourage any and all of you not to abuse Rothgar, he is one of your biggest advocates. Hindsight is always 20/20. What would have made this better, different, etc? Not sure but I have always found it frustrating that the progression % was used and not a straight number. Perhaps the time has come to add a toggle Rothgar, where people can see the total number of guild status points they have accumulated and what the total number is to reach the next level and then toggled back to see their % progression to the next level.I think if perhaps it was delivered previously, the listing of the 90 current levels with the old status requirement and new one for each level people might have a bit more information they could see, some truly are more visual , this may have helped. It might also let them see where they thought they would never be able to get to level 60 that now, 70 is attainable.I would encourage you to post this information still if you are able, there are a good many passionate people in this thread that continue to mention goals and goal setting. Give them the information on which they can base their goals if you are able. We know how much status we can earn doing the various things available to us in the game but how they translate to guild leveling is still an utter mystery to most, at least from level to level.The smoothing out you have done will only be appreciated, IMHO, when people can compare them side by side and then see the numbers in game. Just a suggestion~

Bratface

10-21-2010, 09:53 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it's a pain to level a guild, but the fact remains nothing was lost no matter how it feels.</blockquote>Actually you are wrong, we all did lose something regardless of whether or not you understand the fact.For any guild that is not hell-bent on reaching 90, that just rolls along hoping to get to 50 or 60 or 70 then it IS a loss, it doesn't matter is it is still the exact same distance to 90 from where we were set back to, the thing that matter is that we are farther away from any milestone besides the mighty 90.Not everyone is grinding straight to 90, for most of us we are happy to get to smaller numbers and now we have been pushed back farther from those.And that is our loss, not gain.

Morrias

10-21-2010, 10:41 PM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it's a pain to level a guild, but the fact remains nothing was lost no matter how it feels.</blockquote>Actually you are wrong, we all did lose something regardless of whether or not you understand the fact.For any guild that is not hell-bent on reaching 90, that just rolls along hoping to get to 50 or 60 or 70 then it IS a loss, it doesn't matter is it is still the exact same distance to 90 from where we were set back to, the thing that matter is that we are farther away from any milestone besides the mighty 90.Not everyone is grinding straight to 90, for most of us we are happy to get to smaller numbers and now we have been pushed back farther from those.And that is our loss, not gain.</blockquote>You didnt lose anything, you still have the same number of experience points, if they would have left you at the same level it would have been giving you free experience, and then everyone else would be complaining..

Te'ana

10-21-2010, 10:57 PM

If they had left everybody at the progress level they were at this thread wouldn't exist.

Notsovilepriest

10-21-2010, 11:05 PM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it's a pain to level a guild, but the fact remains nothing was lost no matter how it feels.</blockquote>Actually you are wrong, we all did lose something regardless of whether or not you understand the fact.For any guild that is not hell-bent on reaching 90, that just rolls along hoping to get to 50 or 60 or 70 then it IS a loss, it doesn't matter is it is still the exact same distance to 90 from where we were set back to, the thing that matter is that we are farther away from any milestone besides the mighty 90.Not everyone is grinding straight to 90, for most of us we are happy to get to smaller numbers and now we have been pushed back farther from those.And that is our loss, not gain.</blockquote>Guilds kept the same amount of XP they earned, Or some even agained more, None lost. Do you know how a curve works? You didn't "Lose" work you guys did. Just because the bar is different means nothing. I know this is a challenging concept, next week we can discuss ratios if you want.

Bratface

10-21-2010, 11:34 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it's a pain to level a guild, but the fact remains nothing was lost no matter how it feels.</blockquote>Actually you are wrong, we all did lose something regardless of whether or not you understand the fact.For any guild that is not hell-bent on reaching 90, that just rolls along hoping to get to 50 or 60 or 70 then it IS a loss, it doesn't matter is it is still the exact same distance to 90 from where we were set back to, the thing that matter is that we are farther away from any milestone besides the mighty 90.Not everyone is grinding straight to 90, for most of us we are happy to get to smaller numbers and now we have been pushed back farther from those.And that is our loss, not gain.</blockquote>Guilds kept the same amount of XP they earned, Or some even agained more, None lost. Do you know how a curve works? You didn't "Lose" work you guys did. Just because the bar is different means nothing. I know this is a challenging concept, next week we can discuss ratios if you want.</blockquote>Your curve only works if everyone is heading to the same end point, you seem to not be able to grasp this concept, I am sorry for you.

Notsovilepriest

10-21-2010, 11:47 PM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know it's a pain to level a guild, but the fact remains nothing was lost no matter how it feels.</blockquote>Actually you are wrong, we all did lose something regardless of whether or not you understand the fact.For any guild that is not hell-bent on reaching 90, that just rolls along hoping to get to 50 or 60 or 70 then it IS a loss, it doesn't matter is it is still the exact same distance to 90 from where we were set back to, the thing that matter is that we are farther away from any milestone besides the mighty 90.Not everyone is grinding straight to 90, for most of us we are happy to get to smaller numbers and now we have been pushed back farther from those.And that is our loss, not gain.</blockquote>Guilds kept the same amount of XP they earned, Or some even agained more, None lost. Do you know how a curve works? You didn't "Lose" work you guys did. Just because the bar is different means nothing. I know this is a challenging concept, next week we can discuss ratios if you want.</blockquote>Your curve only works if everyone is heading to the same end point, you seem to not be able to grasp this concept, I am sorry for you.</blockquote>The curve wasn't only weighted heavy at the end, It was in the 30s too, and even more so later, before 60. Now with the curve changed, it's viable for casual small guilds to get even higher easier.

Vortexelemental

10-21-2010, 11:52 PM

Why doesn't everyone simply agree to disagree? No one is going to switch sides in this argument.It's long term ease versus short term ease that changed.Those who were close feel screwed and those that were far feel gratitude.K?

Bratface

10-22-2010, 09:39 PM

Eritius

10-22-2010, 09:46 PM

Kenrod

10-22-2010, 10:17 PM

<cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.</blockquote>This is s utterly disapointing, so now instead of 10% of our status going to our guild, a whopping 15% is given towards the guild.I am underwhelmed to say the least. 50% of 10% is hardly worth calling a bonus at all.</blockquote>There's always one.</blockquote>Yah, it's pretty typical in the "gimmie moar now!" generation.Give em an inch, they want a mile. Give em a rope, they wanna be a cowboy.

Vortexelemental

10-22-2010, 10:31 PM

<cite>Durzin@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Taemien@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.</blockquote>This is s utterly disapointing, so now instead of 10% of our status going to our guild, a whopping 15% is given towards the guild.I am underwhelmed to say the least. 50% of 10% is hardly worth calling a bonus at all.</blockquote>There's always one.</blockquote>Yah, it's pretty typical in the "gimmie moar now!" generation.Give em an inch, they want a mile. Give em a rope, they wanna be a cowboy.</blockquote>I'd prefer to be Scorpion. K thanks

PlaneCrazy

10-23-2010, 12:21 AM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rothgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>This weekend there will be a guild status bonus weekend where all status that you earn will increase your guild's XP by 50%. For example, if you complete a writ that awards you 10,000 status, normally your guild will receive 1000 status (xp). With the 50% bonus you'll still receive 10,000 personal status, but the guild will instead receive 1500 status.The promotion will run from 5pm Friday night until 10am Monday morning (PST). Look for the official announcement coming soon.</blockquote>This is s utterly disapointing, so now instead of 10% of our status going to our guild, a whopping 15% is given towards the guild.I am underwhelmed to say the least. 50% of 10% is hardly worth calling a bonus at all.</blockquote>See Rothgar?Damned if you do, damned if you don't.The people with actual brains looked at this change as a good thing... everyone else is lost, as usual. BTW, since this thread was started... what? .. 10 days ago? My brother and I have managed to grind a level and a half to reach 40. Wasn;t even much of a grind until the last day when we devoted a few hours straight to it. I hadn't planned on hitting 40 for another month at least and yet I was doing about 10% of level in under 30 mins of work orders a few days ago. Now we have the last 3 amenities we really wanted and some more bank space. I'm even confident I might even see a T2 hall a lot sooner then I ever thought.So even though I probably won't even look at any Guild Status writs during this bonus weekend, I thank you guys for the changes to the XP curve.

Bratface

10-23-2010, 03:01 AM

Yeah 5% is such a generous number /rolls eyesThe bonus isn't even working, but go ahead worship the guy who offers to throw you a tiny bone, then never does.

Eritius

10-23-2010, 03:24 AM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah 5% is such a generous number /rolls eyesThe bonus isn't even working, but go ahead worship the guy who offers to throw you a tiny bone, then never does.</blockquote>Hmm I'm getting 2700 guild status for level 90 writs instead of 1800. 900 of 1800 is 5%? [Removed for Content] I wish the developers worked by your math. 10800 status for each writ at 50%!

Cabral

10-23-2010, 03:08 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote>See Rothgar?Damned if you do, damned if you don't.The people with actual brains looked at this change as a good thing... everyone else is lost, as usual. BTW, since this thread was started... what? .. 10 days ago? My brother and I have managed to grind a level and a half to reach 40. Wasn;t even much of a grind until the last day when we devoted a few hours straight to it. I hadn't planned on hitting 40 for another month at least and yet I was doing about 10% of level in under 30 mins of work orders a few days ago. Now we have the last 3 amenities we really wanted and some more bank space. I'm even confident I might even see a T2 hall a lot sooner then I ever thought.So even though I probably won't even look at any Guild Status writs during this bonus weekend, I thank you guys for the changes to the XP curve.</blockquote>It was probably a good change just poorly implemented. The only reason I don't say that it was a good change unconditionally is that experience required for lower levels was increased. They took the hell out of the higher levels and distributed it downwards towards the guilds less capable of handling them.

Odys

10-23-2010, 03:34 PM

<cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah 5% is such a generous number /rolls eyesThe bonus isn't even working, but go ahead worship the guy who offers to throw you a tiny bone, then never does.</blockquote>People pretending to be stupid .... the bonus is 50%. Each time i do 2 writ i get third for free. I get 2700 instead of 1800.I think that they made the progression more regular and i hope that xp require to reach tiers (20,30,40,...) is not too different. The problem was that 30 could be 5 time slower than 31, and this was demoralizing.Probably they should have preserved the % progression to avoid people anger. But i think that the change is fine.

Maroger

10-23-2010, 03:38 PM

<cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah 5% is such a generous number /rolls eyesThe bonus isn't even working, but go ahead worship the guy who offers to throw you a tiny bone, then never does.</blockquote>People pretending to be stupid .... the bonus is 50%. Each time i do 2 writ i get third for free. I get 2700 instead of 1800.I think that they made the progression more regular and i hope that xp require to reach tiers (20,30,40,...) is not too different. The problem was that 30 could be 5 time slower than 31, and this was demoralizing.Probably they should have preserved the % progression to avoid people anger. But i think that the change is fine.</blockquote>TS Rush writs not working correctly -- EPIC FAIL

Odys

10-23-2010, 03:44 PM

Let's hope they will fix that and add another bonus week end next week. Adventure writs are working.

PlaneCrazy

10-23-2010, 03:58 PM

<cite>Maroger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Odys@Storms wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bratface wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah 5% is such a generous number /rolls eyesThe bonus isn't even working, but go ahead worship the guy who offers to throw you a tiny bone, then never does.</blockquote>People pretending to be stupid .... the bonus is 50%. Each time i do 2 writ i get third for free. I get 2700 instead of 1800.I think that they made the progression more regular and i hope that xp require to reach tiers (20,30,40,...) is not too different. The problem was that 30 could be 5 time slower than 31, and this was demoralizing.Probably they should have preserved the % progression to avoid people anger. But i think that the change is fine.</blockquote>TS Rush writs not working correctly -- EPIC FAIL</blockquote>I just tested it on three of my alts... T9 rush writ worth 18158 personal status gave me 2723 Guild Status. Works fine... i even confirmed it against my Guild XP bar. Workd out to about 1.2% of a level at level 40, when the T9 Rush writs usually only gave me about 0.8% of a level.

Cronqar

10-23-2010, 04:38 PM

Bonus-XP is not working for us. Writ-CT givers in Paineel still indicate 18k per writ (1,800 personal, 10%) in Stonebrunt, the percentage indicator towards progression actually seems to be moving slower (about 1.2% per 54k status instead of about 1.4% as it has after the adjustment). But we just hit 50% towards progression and it seems plausible that the "hell-levels" were just redistributed towards the upper percentages towards level-up. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they kept a broken formula in place and just adjusted the level-up numbers. Not really an adjustment! And certainly not a weekend we expected, but so what: There are other things to do.

PlaneCrazy

10-23-2010, 04:49 PM

<cite>Cronqar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bonus-XP is not working for us. Writ-CT givers in Paineel still indicate 18k per writ (1,800 personal, 10%) in Stonebrunt, the percentage indicator towards progression actually seems to be moving slower (about 1.2% per 54k status instead of about 1.4% as it has after the adjustment). But we just hit 50% towards progression and it seems plausible that the "hell-levels" were just redistributed towards the upper percentages towards level-up. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they kept a broken formula in place and just adjusted the level-up numbers. Not really an adjustment! And certainly not a weekend we expected, but so what: There are other things to do.</blockquote>First of all the 18K is personal, the 1800 is the guild's "cut". But that was probably what you meant <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Anyhow, I am really wondering what's causing this to work for some and not others?Different servers? All my toons are on Unrest.Was this xp bonus patched or just a server-side switch? I don't use the Sony Launchpad or the streaming client. I patch with the EQ2 patcher.I thought at first it maybe was something to do with doing writs inside your hall as opposed to doing them outside in a generic crafting area, but other people have reported it not working in their GH's as well.Be nice to see a red name respond to this....

Cronqar

10-23-2010, 04:54 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cronqar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Bonus-XP is not working for us. Writ-CT givers in Paineel still indicate 18k per writ (1,800 personal, 10%) in Stonebrunt, the percentage indicator towards progression actually seems to be moving slower (about 1.2% per 54k status instead of about 1.4% as it has after the adjustment). But we just hit 50% towards progression and it seems plausible that the "hell-levels" were just redistributed towards the upper percentages towards level-up. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they kept a broken formula in place and just adjusted the level-up numbers. Not really an adjustment! And certainly not a weekend we expected, but so what: There are other things to do.</blockquote>First of all the 18K is personal, the 1800 is the guild's "cut". But that was probably what you meant <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Anyhow, I am really wondering what's causing this to work for some and not others?Different servers? All my toons are on Unrest.Was this xp bonus patched or just a server-side switch? I don't use the Sony Launchpad or the streaming client. I patch with the EQ2 patcher.I thought at first it maybe was something to do with doing writs inside your hall as opposed to doing them outside in a generic crafting area, but other people have reported it not working in their GH's as well.Be nice to see a red name respond to this....</blockquote>correct (my bad), 18k personal status and per message 1,800 towards guild status. Not the 2,700 you might expect. All adventure CT's from Paineel writgivers in Stonebrunt.