GU 58 Cures

[Kantarik]

<p>With the change described below from GU58 update where does that leave the Mystics cure Ancestral Balm?  Does it still not get used?  Seems to me that it is still being treated like an offensive spell instead of a cure.  Is this an oversight, or intended?  If intended, why?</p><li><em>You can now click the detriment icons in the player window, group window or raid window to attempt to cure those conditions. </em><ul><li><em>New command /cureplayer [playername|group or raid position][trauma|arcane|noxious|elemental|curse] optional [spell|potion] </em><ul><li><em>Example: /cureplayer g0 noxious spell </em><ul><li><em>Will attempt to cure yourself of a noxious detriment with only spells and without using potions (even if you have them). </em></li></ul></li><li><em>Example: /cureplayer r4 noxious </em><ul><li><em>Will attempt to cure the character in raid slot 4 of a noxious detriment using a spell or potion (whichever is available). </em></li></ul></li></ul></li><li><em>When using potions, the highest level tradeskilled potion in your inventory will be used first. This works with all tradeskilled potions. </em></li><li><em>The abilities Cure Spell, Cure Arcane, Cure Elemental, Noxious Cleansing and Cure Curse work with click to cure and the /cureplayer command.</em> </li></ul></li>

[Banditman]

<p>If you want to use AB, use it . . . I'm not sure what you're driving at here.  The "problem" with AB is that it has a re-use timer on it.</p><p>Well, that's not really the "problem".</p><p>The problem is that AB just isn't useful.  It needs to be castable while controlled.</p>

[Gahnand]

you guys are out of your mind if you don't use ancestral balm. LET'S LOOK AT THE BENEFITS!!! - You can cast on the run (lol this includes KBs!!) - Control Effect Immunity on successful dispel (lol, it won't break the control effect, but great for roots!) - Gigantic ward on successful cure! (lol not that big, but hey 1k is 1k) I use this over single target cure every time.

[Banditman]

<p>I don't find it all that useful.  Yea, there are a couple situations where I might, R&R comes to mind, but otherwise not so much.</p>

[Arcanemundi]

<p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>you guys are out of your mind if you don't use ancestral balm. LET'S LOOK AT THE BENEFITS!!! - You can cast on the run (lol this includes KBs!!) - Control Effect Immunity on successful dispel (lol, it won't break the control effect, but great for roots!) - Gigantic ward on successful cure! (lol not that big, but hey 1k is 1k) I use this over single target cure every time.</blockquote><p>Agree 100%</p>

[Gahnand]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't find it all that useful.  Yea, there are a couple situations where I might, R&R comes to mind, but otherwise not so much.</p></blockquote><p>The question is, why wouldn't you use this over ST cure (with exception to it being down)?</p>

[wullailhuit]

<p>it definately has situational uses , on raids where I'm moving but someone needs cuing right away it's a godsend.</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't find it all that useful.  Yea, there are a couple situations where I might, R&R comes to mind, but otherwise not so much.</p></blockquote><p>The question is, why wouldn't you use this over ST cure (with exception to it being down)?</p></blockquote><p>It's pretty simple, I can more quickly remove multiple detrimentals with ST cure.  The *only* advantage to AB is the 10 second immunity to control effects *IF* it removes a control effect.</p><p>I see the situational uses, I just don't find it terribly convenient in the course of normal play.</p>

[Gahnand]

well unless you are specced for coagulate/cures (lol), I don't see how it is faster to use a regular single target cure.

[Banditman]

<p>I am not spec'ed that way, and it isn't faster for a single cure.  It is faster when doing multiple singles, which I find myself doing enough that AB is simply an annoyance I don't need.</p>

[Kantarik]

<p>Well, we seem to have gone down a topic that i wasn't really trying to address...</p><p>What I am asking is that when you use click to cure... it doesn't use Ancestral Balm.. it uses the normal cure.  I want click to cure to check all of my available cures (spells or potions) and use this cure as it is available.  Right now, it doesn't even seemed to be considered.</p><p>One work around that I have found is using DRUMS UI where I can specify the spell I want to use when I click on someones name (like wards, torpor, Oberion, etc).  I would prefer that the normal cure cycle checks to see if this is available use it, and if not use the normal cure.</p>

[Gahnand]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I am not spec'ed that way, and it isn't faster for a single cure.  It is faster when doing multiple singles, which I find myself doing enough that AB is simply an annoyance I don't need.</p></blockquote><p>lol then why wouldn't you just use AB first and then single target for the others?</p>

[Caskorak_62]

<p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't find it all that useful.  Yea, there are a couple situations where I might, R&R comes to mind, but otherwise not so much.</p></blockquote><p>The question is, why wouldn't you use this over ST cure (with exception to it being down)?</p></blockquote><p>It's pretty simple, I can more quickly remove multiple detrimentals with ST cure.  The *only* advantage to AB is the 10 second immunity to control effects *IF* it removes a control effect.</p><p>I see the situational uses, I just don't find it terribly convenient in the course of normal play.</p></blockquote><p>I believe you yourself have (finally) hit on the purose of this discussion.  You state it is "inconvenient" in the course of normal play.  SO, why not have it included in the click to cure casting?  Would you find it detrimental to have a ward place on your target after they are cured?  Would you find it detrimental to find your target immune to a control effect after you cured it?  If you answered yes to either of these questions than /camp /delete mystic.</p><p>As much as you (Banditman) have tried to railroad the discussion into the "usefullness" of AB, the question still stands.  "Does it still not get used?  Seems to me that it is still being treated like an offensive spell instead of a cure.  Is this an oversight, or intended?  If intended, why?"</p><p>The only reason I would see it being not included in the click to cure would be the fact that you may want to save that spell for later when it would be more useful (ie running, control effect, ect.)</p>

[snowli]

<p>I vastly prefer to click to cure with 1 action, than change target, press a macro with ABalm & then cure in it, then change to next or previous target and repeat. Single target click to cure is vastly more convenient in busy raids where a lot of the pressure is already on the healers anyway.</p><p>In the main Ancestral Balm only gets used when I'm being knocked around, trying to get 1 extra cure during movement etc, or if I want to remove something from the person I'm already targeting.</p><p>I wish there was a way to get any click to cure system to check to use ancestral balm and then if it's down use regular cure, I've asked about that previously on eq2interface but not received any replies.</p><p>I agree with all 3 viewpoints here, I don't think they contradict each other:</p><ul><li>AB is good when used, </li><li>AB is quite annoying to use compared to cure, </li><li>it would be great to have a click to cure system that is mystic friendly and doesn't require extra target switches and clicks/presses just for mystic type healers to include ABalm.</li></ul>

[Gahnand]

<p><cite>snowline wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I vastly prefer to click to cure with 1 action, than change target, press a macro with ABalm & then cure in it, then change to next or previous target and repeat. Single target click to cure is vastly more convenient in busy raids where a lot of the pressure is already on the healers anyway.</p></blockquote><p>Because convenience is more important than effectiveness</p>

[Banditman]

<p><cite>Kazkorac@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Banditman wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't find it all that useful.  Yea, there are a couple situations where I might, R&R comes to mind, but otherwise not so much.</p></blockquote><p>The question is, why wouldn't you use this over ST cure (with exception to it being down)?</p></blockquote><p>It's pretty simple, I can more quickly remove multiple detrimentals with ST cure.  The *only* advantage to AB is the 10 second immunity to control effects *IF* it removes a control effect.</p><p>I see the situational uses, I just don't find it terribly convenient in the course of normal play.</p></blockquote><p>I believe you yourself have (finally) hit on the purose of this discussion.  You state it is "inconvenient" in the course of normal play.  SO, why not have it included in the click to cure casting?  Would you find it detrimental to have a ward place on your target after they are cured?  Would you find it detrimental to find your target immune to a control effect after you cured it?  If you answered yes to either of these questions than /camp /delete mystic.</p><p>As much as you (Banditman) have tried to railroad the discussion into the "usefullness" of AB, the question still stands.  "Does it still not get used?  Seems to me that it is still being treated like an offensive spell instead of a cure.  Is this an oversight, or intended?  If intended, why?"</p><p>The only reason I would see it being not included in the click to cure would be the fact that you may want to save that spell for later when it would be more useful (ie running, control effect, ect.)</p></blockquote><p>I haven't tried to railroad anything.  I've said quite simply that I don't find AB very useful or convenient in the course of normal, day to day play.  End of story.</p><p>If you want it used, create yourself a raid hot key for it in Profit.  It's fairly strait forward if you really want that sort of click to cure functionality.</p><p>The biggest problem with AB is that it isn't simply a strait upgrade to our normal cure.  If it were, this entire discussion would never have happened.  I can see how that would be overpowered, certainly, so I understand why it isn't that way, and of course, it was granted as a sort of "sister" spell to Voice of the Ancestors, which doesn't in any way suffer from this issue.</p><p>Certainly, if you wanted to mod Profit (or probably any UI for that matter) to use AB as your "click to cure" spell, it would be pretty easy.  The problem there is that click to cure is not an "if/then/else" type deal.  It's simply issuing a /useabilityonplayer command.</p><p>There are numerous classes who would love some sort of logic processing in the UI, but it's a lot easier to say than acutally do.</p>

[Gahnand]

of course you can't add conditional statements to your macro... jeeezus. even with all the UI enhancements, you still have to apply SOME effort to play the game. i think if you're not using AB everytime you can (over ST cure), you should give it a try. Some great ways to do this are KB shortcuts and mouse hotkeys, or a combination. I have a whacky setup, but for example, my ST cure is space bar, but if I want AB i just press ALT + Space bar. That way, I'm really not losing any "convenience". Then again, I don't use click-to-cure. Aside from CTC (which always has it's problems from time-to-time -- QQ), if you're using hotbars just put your AB right next to your cure. How can that be any more difficult?

[AziBam]

<p><cite>snowline wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I vastly prefer to click to cure with 1 action, than change target, press a macro with ABalm & then cure in it, then change to next or previous target and repeat. Single target click to cure is vastly more convenient in busy raids where a lot of the pressure is already on the healers anyway.</p><p>In the main Ancestral Balm only gets used when I'm being knocked around, trying to get 1 extra cure during movement etc, or if I want to remove something from the person I'm already targeting.</p><p>I wish there was a way to get any click to cure system to check to use ancestral balm and then if it's down use regular cure, I've asked about that previously on eq2interface but not received any replies.</p><p>I agree with all 3 viewpoints here, I don't think they contradict each other:</p><ul><li>AB is good when used, </li><li>AB is quite annoying to use compared to cure, </li><li>it would be great to have a click to cure system that is mystic friendly and doesn't require extra target switches and clicks/presses just for mystic type healers to include ABalm.</li></ul></blockquote><p>I have the same view as you on this issue Snow.  I was discussing it with a friend last night trying to sort out how to make profit work in the manner you described here (and on your thread on the eq2interface boards). He recommended that I try the Drums UI which is also found on eq2interface.  I installed it last night instead of profit.  The raid cure buttons are more or less the same as profit but, unlike profit, you choose what you want in the 5 other quick-click buttons.  Did that make any sense at all? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Anyway, on profit the first quick cast button uses ancestral ward, 2nd and 3rd the direct heals, etc. After installing Drums last night I chose the 5 I wanted.  In fact, all were the same other than I made the 5th (because it's closest to the cure area) ancestral balm.  Profit has that 5th button set as bolster.  </p><p>In fairness, I haven't had a chance to really test it thoroughly yet. We just ran one easy heroic instance last night after I set it up.  Will raid tonight where I hope to get a better feel for whether I like it or not.  It was easy to install so you might want to check it out too.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p>Notice that AB does not cure mez while the Defiler version does.  Also not castable after the det is already on you makes it useless.</p>

[Gahnand]

<p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Notice that AB does not cure mez while the Defiler version does.  Also not castable after the det is already on you makes it useless.</p></blockquote><p>i certainly does cure mez. in fact, it cures all hostile effects just like Cure. And, nobody is arguing that Defiler's have better crap; it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that AB is a great tool and there is no reason to not use it over Cure aside from being lazy.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Notice that AB does not cure mez while the Defiler version does.  Also not castable after the det is already on you makes it useless.</p></blockquote><p>i certainly does cure mez. in fact, it cures all hostile effects just like Cure. And, nobody is arguing that Defiler's have better crap; it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that AB is a great tool and there is no reason to not use it over Cure aside from being lazy.</p></blockquote><p>When I am mezzed I can not cast AB on myself.   Defilers version is castable while they are mezzed and it hits the whole group</p>

[Gahnand]

<p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Notice that AB does not cure mez while the Defiler version does.  Also not castable after the det is already on you makes it useless.</p></blockquote><p>i certainly does cure mez. in fact, it cures all hostile effects just like Cure. And, nobody is arguing that Defiler's have better crap; it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that AB is a great tool and there is no reason to not use it over Cure aside from being lazy.</p></blockquote><p>When I am mezzed I can not cast AB on myself.   Defilers version is castable while they are mezzed and it hits the whole group</p></blockquote><p>what you are trying to say is that it doesn't 'break' control effects. nobody is arguing that defilers aren't more OP, but it still doesn't give reason to not use AB.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>what you are trying to say is that it doesn't 'break' control effects. nobody is arguing that defilers aren't more OP, but it still doesn't give reason to not use AB.</p></blockquote><p>I don't care if people use it or not.  My concern is it will not break existing control effects on the caster.</p>

[Gahnand]

<p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>what you are trying to say is that it doesn't 'break' control effects. nobody is arguing that defilers aren't more OP, but it still doesn't give reason to not use AB.</p></blockquote><p>I don't care if people use it or not.  My concern is it will not break existing control effects on the caster.</p></blockquote><p>then you should start a new thread since that's not what this one is about.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>what you are trying to say is that it doesn't 'break' control effects. nobody is arguing that defilers aren't more OP, but it still doesn't give reason to not use AB.</p></blockquote><p>I don't care if people use it or not.  My concern is it will not break existing control effects on the caster.</p></blockquote><p>then you should start a new thread since that's not what this one is about.</p></blockquote><p>Thread police much?  Last I checked this was about Ancestral Balm and whether or not people use it.</p><p>Try gettin a life.</p>

[Gahnand]

<p><cite></cite></p><p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Last I checked this was about Ancestral Balm and whether or not people use it.</p></blockquote><p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't care if people use it or not.</p></blockquote><p>try contributing instead of derailing</p>

[Anadorn]

<p>I have to agree  that I hardly ever use this spell in PvE environment but it does get used while i'm BG'ing.  Largely due to the fact it is an inconvience.  I don't use hotbars or my keyboard to cure.  I, like many others, click my raid windows click to cure.  Rather than find a target, check and decide who should have balm, hit the hotkey, then start single curing; I would rather just spam click my raid window and get them off faster.  If it can be setup to check balm first as someone said that would be fine but I'm not going to go out of my way to adjust my UI to get it done (inconvience).  I'm not disagreeing that it doesn't have value but I have yet to see it make or break any raids I've been on b/c I chose to single target cure vs. balm cure.  As for the immunity to charm I don't find it very often that a mob charms so frequently that the immunity would still be on the next time it hits.  But other than bg's the only time I really use it is when running around and a mob slows me and I click it so I don't have to stop moving.</p>

[Gahnand]

unless you are raiding tso, i can't imagine why you would be spam clicking ST cure to begin with

[Kantarik]

<p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>unless you are raiding tso, i can't imagine why you would be spam clicking ST cure to begin with</blockquote><p>Not to derail my own topic, but I use ST cure on ALOT of current content simply because AB's recast time and our group cures recast time... ST is almost an instant recast... Mobs like Perah'Celsis, Herakaat, Barrier Golem, Azara the Seer, and many more require ST cures (in place of AB) as a single group healer for Mystics.  Unfortunately, we don't have multiple group cures, but luckily we have no recast time on our ST cure.</p><p>My only point is that AB should be factored into the cure que with this new release... just like potions are... If it is available then it uses AB, if it is down then ST works as the second option, if they are both down, then it uses a potion from your inventory.</p><p>As others have mentioned in this thread, the solution now that I use is DRUMS UI, which allows me to state which spells I want to use on click to cure.  I assign AB in slot 5 on those fights that I know I will be doing alot of cures.</p>

[Gahnand]

<p><cite>Kantarik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gahnand@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>unless you are raiding tso, i can't imagine why you would be spam clicking ST cure to begin with</blockquote><p>Not to derail my own topic, but I use ST cure on ALOT of current content simply because AB's recast time and our group cures recast time... ST is almost an instant recast... Mobs like Perah'Celsis, Herakaat, Barrier Golem, Azara the Seer, and many more require ST cures (in place of AB) as a single group healer for Mystics.  Unfortunately, we don't have multiple group cures, but luckily we have no recast time on our ST cure.</p><p>My only point is that AB should be factored into the cure que with this new release... just like potions are... If it is available then it uses AB, if it is down then ST works as the second option, if they are both down, then it uses a potion from your inventory.</p><p>As others have mentioned in this thread, the solution now that I use is DRUMS UI, which allows me to state which spells I want to use on click to cure.  I assign AB in slot 5 on those fights that I know I will be doing alot of cures.</p></blockquote><p>All of the mobs you named are easy mode mobs. Even on barrier, there is no reason to use ST cure. GCure, have group use pots, and GCure. TSO = whack a cure, SF = gcures. If you're spamming ST cures, then you're missing much more important things you should be doing.</p>

[Kantarik]

<p>Its funny you characterize TSO=whack a cure, cause thats exactly how we characterize the Perah'Celsis encounter... maybe if the raid would to learn to not AE Perah our charmed folks would not get so many dot's on them.. I dunno.. but it seems ironic.</p><p>I like your suggestion though, just put cure responsibility on the other curing options (mages arcane, and pots) and then we can focus on Mystic DPS.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Banditman]

<p>There are really only two options on Pera:</p><p>1.  Raid uses no AE's and you wait until the person charmed tells you they are able to be cured.  Hint:  they should be watching for a detrimental that has the same icon as Shield Ally.</p><p>2.  Let the charmed people die and rez them.</p>

[Gahnand]

aes are ok if they don't have dots, but more importantly just tell ur bards and healers to chillax with the green debuffs. that will limit the number of ST cures AND it will be a lot easier to keep those ppl up if you are going for flawless. it makes the fight longer that way, so if you're not going for flawless, i say let them die.

[Kantarik]

<p>Just FYI.  I did figure out a solution to my OP.</p><p>To get click to cure to cast Ancestral Balm in DRUMS UI , edit using the in game spell editor of the UI by adding the following lines.</p><p>useabilityonplayer SELECTED Ancestral Balm</p><p>useabilityonplayer SELECTED Cure</p><p>There is no / "slash" command at the beginning.</p><p>I suspect you could make this some sort of macro button to do the same using the / "slash" command, but I prefer to just click on a persons name, see Ancestral Balm cast, and if it is not available, then see the normal spell "cure" cast... all with one click.</p><p>This works great!</p>

[Wilin]

<p><cite>Kantarik wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Just FYI.  I did figure out a solution to my OP.</p><p>To get click to cure to cast Ancestral Balm in DRUMS UI , edit using the in game spell editor of the UI by adding the following lines.</p><p>useabilityonplayer SELECTED Ancestral Balm</p><p>useabilityonplayer SELECTED Cure</p><p>There is no / "slash" command at the beginning.</p><p>I suspect you could make this some sort of macro button to do the same using the / "slash" command, but I prefer to just click on a persons name, see Ancestral Balm cast, and if it is not available, then see the normal spell "cure" cast... all with one click.</p><p>This works great!</p></blockquote><p>So, if AB does cast, does the ST cure still cast afterwards?</p>

[Kantarik]

<p>It only casts if there are still debuffs remaining on the player.  You can set that as an option in the UI.</p>

[Wilin]

<p>Nice</p>