Feedback - Zraxth's Unseen Arcanum: Hardmode

[Shotneedle]

<p>If this zone on hard is targetted for end game players, then I think this is an amazing zone. It's definitely challenging for 6 players. Loot so far has been a little bit OP for a group zone, but then I remember only the top guild or two on each server will be able to do this zone on hardmode so I think it's fine.</p><p>First Named: Rhee'Gor</p><p>Kill Pull: 5:28, 88k dps. Paladin, Dirge, Illusionist, Warlock, Templar, Empty Spot.</p><p>I like it. With a paladin tanking, the memwipes were a bit hard to control, but we killed it within 6 or 7 tries. Also, almost every time we wiped and the named reset, my client crashed, but it seemed to be only mine. I think the memwipes could be a *little* less constant. Idk exactly how it works, but it seemed faster some pulls than it was our kill pull.</p><p>Second Named: Treskar Throatpuncher</p><p>Kill Pull: 7:15, 100k dps. Paladin, Dirge, Illusionist, Illusionist, Templar, Fury.</p><p>Having to joust an aoe on heroic content is new, but I can live with it. The adds are perfect imo, looks to have about 2 million hp and 20 seconds to kill it. Will really seperate the people who shouldn't be in the zone from those that should. I really would like to see him strip debuffs less though. It got to a point where I just said screw it and stopped debuffing him since they'd be wiped 3-5 seconds later.</p><p>Third Named: Anathraxxis Fetidspine</p><p>Kill Pull: None. Paladin, Dirge, Illusionist, Templar, Fury, Empty Spot.</p><p>We only got one pull on this mob since the Paladin had to leave, but it looks like a mini deep forge boss, except the bombs two shot you. Also the red text for the bombs seem a bit delayed. This is where we stopped for now, we plan to come back in later tonight though.</p><p>(P.S., Anathraxxis' model looks awesome.)</p>

[Jeal]

<p><cite>Cheato@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Idk exactly how it works, but it seemed faster some pulls than it was our kill pull.</blockquote><p>pretty sure that was ultra just mis timing his de-positionals :/</p><p>overall so far</p><p>*thumbs up!</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>oh man, this sounds so [Removed for Content] fun.</p><p>instances that are actually hard again.... man, thats gonna get me playing again and not just raiding, then logging out.</p><p>every instance in this entire expansion is so [Removed for Content] easy, with scripts so simple you can actual ignore the script entirely and kill the names in a minute. something thats actually challenging again - definatly has my interest.</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>where is this zone?</p><p>I cant seem to find it anywhere on test.</p>

[Anastasie]

<p>It's right below where you get off the balloon. You have to walk through the wall of vines to get to the entrance.</p>

[Kander]

<p><cite>Cheato@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I really would like to see him strip debuffs less though. It got to a point where I just said screw it and stopped debuffing him since they'd be wiped 3-5 seconds later.</p></blockquote><p>Yeah, I can change that. No problem.</p>

[Kander]

<p><cite>Annelise@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's right below where you get off the balloon. You have to walk through the wall of vines to get to the entrance.</p></blockquote><p>There is a froglok at the Druid Spire, at the landing zone that will gate you right to the outside of the zone.</p>

[DeathtoGnomes]

<p><cite>Cheato@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If this zone on hard is targetted for end game players, then I think this is an amazing zone. It's definitely challenging for 6 players. Loot so far has been a little bit OP for a group zone, but then I remember only the top guild or two on each server will be able to do this zone on hardmode so I think it's fine.</p></blockquote><p>YAY! lets be more like EQ1 and make zones only endgame raiders can go to !! woot!</p><p>/sarcasm off</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>DeathtoGnomes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cheato@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If this zone on hard is targetted for end game players, then I think this is an amazing zone. It's definitely challenging for 6 players. Loot so far has been a little bit OP for a group zone, but then I remember only the top guild or two on each server will be able to do this zone on hardmode so I think it's fine.</p></blockquote><p>YAY! lets be more like EQ1 and make zones only endgame raiders can go to !! woot!</p></blockquote><p>Why not us casuals have tons of dungeons.. what does it hurt to have 1 or 2 hard mode dungeons? I just don't get it.</p>

[Kander]

<p><cite>DeathtoGnomes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cheato@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If this zone on hard is targetted for end game players, then I think this is an amazing zone. It's definitely challenging for 6 players. Loot so far has been a little bit OP for a group zone, but then I remember only the top guild or two on each server will be able to do this zone on hardmode so I think it's fine.</p></blockquote><p>YAY! lets be more like EQ1 and make zones only endgame raiders can go to !! woot!</p><p>/sarcasm off</p></blockquote><p>The dungeon has a normal mode for everyone who does not want to do the hardmode.</p>

[FimisOrbe]

<p><cite>DeathtoGnomes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cheato@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If this zone on hard is targetted for end game players, then I think this is an amazing zone. It's definitely challenging for 6 players. Loot so far has been a little bit OP for a group zone, but then I remember only the top guild or two on each server will be able to do this zone on hardmode so I think it's fine.</p></blockquote><p>YAY! lets be more like EQ1 and make zones only endgame raiders can go to !! woot!</p><p>/sarcasm off</p></blockquote><p>YAY! It can be do on Easy Mode which is only Heroic.</p><p>Get your Infos right before you complain.</p><p>*edit*</p><p>The Clay Dev was faster =(</p>

[Shotneedle]

<p>I was a casual back in EoF, but weren't Nizara and Shard of Fear only doable by the top 1-2 guilds per server in tier? This zone reminds me of those.</p>

[EQPrime]

<p><cite>Cheato@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I was a casual back in EoF, but weren't Nizara and Shard of Fear only doable by the top 1-2 guilds per server in tier? This zone reminds me of those.</p></blockquote><p>Nah, I'd put Nizara during EoF on par with maybe PoF during TSO in difficulty.  People struggled with it but a lot of people could still finish while it was still current.  I think SoF was a bit easier than Nizara.</p><p>I have no problem with a hard mode zone geared towards a couple of top guilds per server, especially if there's a normal zone for more casual people.  Plus, this gives those people who raid casually and have ok gear something to work on during non-raid nights.</p>

[Striikor]

<p><cite>DeathtoGnomes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Cheato@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If this zone on hard is targetted for end game players, then I think this is an amazing zone. It's definitely challenging for 6 players. Loot so far has been a little bit OP for a group zone, but then I remember only the top guild or two on each server will be able to do this zone on hardmode so I think it's fine.</p></blockquote><p>YAY! lets be more like EQ1 and make zones only endgame raiders can go to !! woot!</p><p>/sarcasm off</p></blockquote><p>Do you not have enough challenging zones now? There are only three zones worth running now, Palace is the most fun, Vig rescue is alright I guess and .... whoops two zones I mean. You really think adding a challenging zone is a negative?</p>

[Alfeo]

<p>This zone looks great. Adding a normal mode and a challenge mode imo is the best way to go since that way you guys can use similiar content to appeal to more people. There are many very easy dungeons this expac, but not so many that offer a real significant challenge. Really, really looking forward to this.</p>

[Syndarin]

<p>I ran through it (Killed 1st named, pulls on the third) with a failry good group, and some of the best geared toons in the game, and it was challenging.I hate group zones with a passion, but this zone is actually fun. This is a great idea (1 group x2s) and I think you're on to something with it.inb4 casuals want the x2 loot off heroic content.</p>

[Syndarin]

<p>Though, I just heard the easy mode loot is about the same as the hm loot (.2 stat difference. wildfire 1 instead of 2 etc.) and if that's the case, the zone just became pretty lame.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Syndarin@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Though, I just heard the easy mode loot is about the same as the hm loot (.2 stat difference. wildfire 1 instead of 2 etc.) and if that's the case, the zone just became pretty lame.</p></blockquote><p>Who cares its better loot. As long as its better loot and loot people would use then eventually the Hm will be cleared regularly And the easy mode still wouldn't be touched. </p><p>Are your feelings seriously hurt because someone is killing slightly easier named and getting loot that is slightly worse loot. </p>

[Jeal]

<p>keep in mind that you ALWAYS get exquisites from the hm stuff... i'm guessing thats not the case with the heroic easy mode version</p>

[DeathtoGnomes]

<p>I wasnt complaining one bit, go back to school and learn the difference between sarcasm and complaints then change your diaper and come back and accuse me of being a whiner. There is nothing wrong with having this zone, it should be doable (some of it) in any mode and not have be raid geared.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>DeathtoGnomes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I wasnt complaining one bit, go back to school and learn the difference between sarcasm and complaints then change your diaper and come back and accuse me of being a whiner. There is nothing wrong with having this zone, it should be doable (some of it) in any mode and not have be raid geared.</p></blockquote><p>I just changed my diaper you are still whining. There is no reason easy AND hard mode should be doable without high end gear. </p>

[dpsman]

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><cite>DeathtoGnomes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I wasnt complaining one bit, go back to school and learn the difference between sarcasm and complaints then change your diaper and come back and accuse me of being a whiner. There is nothing wrong with having this zone, it should be doable (some of it) in any mode and not have be raid geared.</p></blockquote><p>I just changed my diaper you are still whining. There is no reason easy AND hard mode should be doable without high end gear. </p></blockquote>

[Wigg]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>DeathtoGnomes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I wasnt complaining one bit, go back to school and learn the difference between sarcasm and complaints then change your diaper and come back and accuse me of being a whiner. There is nothing wrong with having this zone, it should be doable (some of it) in any mode and not have be raid geared.</p></blockquote><p>I just changed my diaper you are still whining. There is no reason easy AND hard mode should be doable without high end gear. </p></blockquote><p>No, no it shouldn't.  It is a herioc zone finally geared for raiders so instead of rolling our 15th alt we have something else to do on nights we aren't raiding.  SOE was nicer than I would have been and made an easy and hard mode so everyone could attempt the zone in some form.  Know how long it took me and my guild to do palace with 1 healer?  The third day of the expansion.  That was without having 1 bit of the new loot minus I believe 2 or 3 legendary pieces.  Now that we have raid gear, I don't even like them to target the adds on the 2nd name so I have something to do when we actually do the zone.</p>

[Syndarin]

<p>What upset me is I'm not taking about fabled drops in the heroic version being close to the loot from the x2 version. The LEGENDARY loot is almost exactly the same.That is stupid.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>in short current heroic content is a joke to anyone remotely raid geared. Be nice to have group zones that provide a challenge without being on gimpy alts for a change</p>

[Kunaak]

<p><cite>DeathtoGnomes wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>YAY! lets be more like EQ1 and make zones only endgame raiders can go to !! woot!</p><p>/sarcasm off</p></blockquote><p>are you kidding me?</p><p>this expansions zones have been a absolute joke from day 1. the only single encounter in the entire game, outside of raids that took even 10 minutes to figure out - was the queen in the cella. but once you learn that script, its not even kinda hard to do.</p><p>this expansion is full of easy zones, with little to no challenge. I guess if you want to consider HM outer vaults a challenge you can - but thats 1 boss in the entire zone thats even kinda fun, and even then - why bother doing it? it only drops tank loot.</p><p>I remember first time we went into outer stronghold, and finally - after hours of working to him, got to zraxth - and we pulled him for a good 2 days before we finally had a strat. that was well before anyone really knew how to kill him. even to the final days of TSO - outer stronghold was no joke.</p><p>varsoon wasnt so much hard - as complicated, and that made that fight fun.</p><p>theres nothing even remotely like that in this expansion.</p><p>el'arad can be killed before he even does one of his "get to the symbol" things.</p><p>I can take the gimpest people through cella now, as long as they can follow simple instructions.</p><p>this expansion needs something thats actually challenging to do again. everything so far is so [Removed for Content] easy, that really, doing a instance, is only farming. use to do instances, cause they were fun, and challenging.</p>

[FimisOrbe]

<p><cite>Syndarin@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What upset me is I'm not taking about fabled drops in the heroic version being close to the loot from the x2 version. The LEGENDARY loot is almost exactly the same.That is stupid.</p></blockquote><p>If that is true (I didn't see anything yet) and loot is in it's final state on Test, that is really stupid. Reading the Feedback the HM does really sound like a good challange even in UD Wing 3 Gear, so there should be a bigger gap in the reward for beating the Zone in HM.</p><p>The problem still, they made the upgrades overall so small in this expansion, that they do not have much room for improvements and would touch x4 HM loot very fast and some wouldn't like that either.</p>

[Jeal]

<p>i haven't seen the heroic loot but the hm fabled is just a step down from hm maalus quality gear... i don't know.. its pretty good stuff from what i've seen *shrugs</p>

[Shizune]

<p>Depending on the challenge of the zone HM Maalus quality gear might not be enough. HM Maalus isn't very challenging and the rewards of that encounter are pretty big despite that. I'm actually hoping the zone has better loot than some of the HM x4 encounters to get players to actually want to run it more than once.</p>

[Faeward]

Where is the zone-in?

[Trojenn]

<p>I think there should be something in this zone better then some HM's. Every expac I can recall has had some loot from some instance that were beast, I am not saying make the zone chalked full of it but a few or one for each archetype would be awsome.</p><p>as far as difficulty, I realy realy hope this zone offers a good challenge <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> . I wanna be the first bruiser to tank it lol.</p>

[Toughone]

<p>Theres a froglok npc at the druid ring in moors that ports u near the zone in, u go through some weeds and its there.</p>

[Jeal]

<p>let me just clarify.. the 2nd mob in the zone's loot was comparable to taehric construct easymode loot.. if not slightly better... there are more than 2 mobs and the first guys loot wasn't all that special.. so...most likely.. we'll see some pretty good stuff from the last guy <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>Nicely done Kander. I know I have been asking for this for years now and not the only person. Having zones with scaled difficulty instead of level is awesome, thanks for doing this.</p><p>IF there are any quests that go through here, please make sure the shinies and quest updates can be gotten from either zone but loot should definitely stay amped on hard mode.</p><p>Hope this is something you guys are going to continue in Velious instances as well.</p>

[Alfeo]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Nicely done Kander. I know I have been asking for this for years now and not the only person. Having zones with scaled difficulty instead of level is awesome, thanks for doing this.</p><p>IF there are any quests that go through here, please make sure the shinies and quest updates can be gotten from either zone but loot should definitely stay amped on hard mode.</p><p>Hope this is something you guys are going to continue in Velious instances as well.</p></blockquote><p>Aye I hope so as well. It seems like a smart use of resources. Make two versions of all the new heroic zones in velious imo, the regular version could be what we have now for most of the zones, anyone can do it in pretty much any level of gear without much fuss. They could run the gamat as ours do difficulty wise (ie. library to vig 3) but really they are ultimately not a big deal. Then you could add in a hard mode for each one of these zones which would also run the gamut. To continue with the example, hard mode library might be just slightly tougher than easy vig3 but not much so, and at the other end of the scale, hard mode vig 3 would be absolutely nightmareishly hard. Thus you'll have doubled the amount of heroic content and have a nice difficulty scale that would enable a sense of heroic progression (some people do look at heroics as progression at least in TSO many nonraiders did) as well as give all sorts of players multiple zones to look forward that will be challenging for them at whatever level they happen to be at.</p><p>My two cents anyways.</p>

[Nebbeny]

There aren't two versions of the zone, it's exactly like raid zones in that you (as far as first mob goes, i couldn't solo him and so never saw the second one) get a chance to stop him going into hard mode, and if you stop him, you have easy mode. I'm assuming it's the same for the rest. I wouldn't be against having two different versions of a zone though. However that would make their work load alot higher as they would have to make twice as much loot, which is where alot of care and attention should in theory be going.

[Alfeo]

<p><cite>Nebbeny wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>There aren't two versions of the zone, it's exactly like raid zones in that you (as far as first mob goes, i couldn't solo him and so never saw the second one) get a chance to stop him going into hard mode, and if you stop him, you have easy mode. I'm assuming it's the same for the rest. I wouldn't be against having two different versions of a zone though. However that would make their work load alot higher as they would have to make twice as much loot, which is where alot of care and attention should in theory be going.</blockquote><p>Actually if you dont stop him from channeling his spell at the start, the entire zone goes hard mode, not just him. Your decision at the start of the zone changes all of it, you cant do some fights hm and other fights easy.</p><p>And I dunno, for the amount of content you get I dont know if it really increases the workload that much, you wouldn't have to make new art monsters, layout, etc etc to make zones and no one can complain that they cant see x zone cause the easy mode will be doable by everybody but still have a hard version available for people who want something really challenging.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>Wow, great job creating a new heroic zone that challenges raiders!</p><p>I have a few complaints regarding the itemization, and the last mob in the zone is a little boring after the novelty of the script wears off, but great work with this overall.  I haven't had this much fun in heroic content since maybe early in TSO with Varsoon, if even then <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[acctlc]

<p><cite>bert@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think there should be something in this zone better then some HM's. Every expac I can recall has had some loot from some instance that were beast, I am not saying make the zone chalked full of it but a few or one for each archetype would be awsome.</p><p>as far as difficulty, I realy realy hope this zone offers a good challenge <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /> . I wanna be the first bruiser to tank it lol.</p></blockquote><p>From what I've seen linked, A number of fabled items dropping off the hardmodes in this zone would be top slot for any summoner..anywhere period.  A wrist, charm and cloak linked to me coming specifically from this zone comes to mind.  Now this zone is hard as hell and even tho we went in with full t3 geared raid toons we couldn't manage it.   Its one of those that certain classes will probably be on the "cool" list of folks that get to go, and some won't be.  Likely that only the top guild or two per server who is decked out in wing 3 gear  of the hole can throw together a group of suboptimal classes and can get anything done in there.</p><p>Now....If those are the best slot for the class then sure the 2-3 best summoners per server deserve to head in there and get them.  But where is the itemization for the rest?  Sure seems like your choice if you're a summoner is, legendary instance charm or...fabled off insanely difficult mob only the top 1% of players can kill.  Cloak..well same applies..legendary instance cloak or the one you've added to this zone..nothing inbetween (if the dev doing itemization has paid any attention to summoner feedback he knows why I don't even count the cloak dropping in wing one of the hole here).  Couldn't you have thrown an itemization bone to anyone inbetween this xpac?  Only thing that saved us in the weapon department was the Sublime Dagger and luckily you listened to feedback there. I sure hope this doesn't continue into Velious because, while summoners are much better cared for than previous tiers sure seems the itemization is frustrating.  I'm starting to really see the argument for shared stats when I see these gaping holes in itemization.</p>

[Jeal]

<p>lol the fact that these items are amazing isn't the problem... the problem is the end game raid bosses have worse or comparable loot to these same items</p>

[acctlc]

<p><cite>Jeal@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol the fact that these items are amazing isn't the problem... the problem is the end game raid bosses have worse or comparable loot to these same items</p></blockquote><p>If they are targeting end game raiders for this zone, which when I went in, it was pretty [Removed for Content] obvious they are..of course the loot is comparable or better.  Otherwise [Removed for Content] would the *elite* raiders want to run the zone for besides to sell drops.The only other option of course is toned down drops and more variety in players able to access the hardmode group zone.  Don't use it as an excuse to whine that the raid mobs aren't dropping high enough quality gear when you needed that gear to finish the zone in the first place <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Went off on a bit of a tangent I'll admit on the gaping holes in summoner itemization through raid progression.</p><p>More Feedback:  Having the mission giver speak froak is a PITA.  Might consider changing that to something more common.  Half our group didn't even know it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[FimisOrbe]

<p><cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Jeal@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>lol the fact that these items are amazing isn't the problem... the problem is the end game raid bosses have worse or comparable loot to these same items</p></blockquote><p>If they are targeting end game raiders for this zone, which when I went in, it was pretty [Removed for Content] obvious they are..of course the loot is comparable or better.  Otherwise [Removed for Content] would the *elite* raiders want to run the zone for besides to sell drops.The only other option of course is toned down drops and more variety in players able to access the hardmode group zone.  Don't use it as an excuse to whine that the raid mobs aren't dropping high enough quality gear when you needed that gear to finish the zone in the first place <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Went off on a bit of a tangent I'll admit on the gaping holes in summoner itemization through raid progression.</p><p>More Feedback:  Having the mission giver speak froak is a PITA.  Might consider changing that to something more common.  Half our group didn't even know it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>That's all fine if the Mobs would have been killed like 3 weeks into the expansion. I really have no problem with some items touching Loot from Mobs killed very early in the expansion, but it should nowhere be any better or almost the same quality as from Mobs that can be killed only by a couple Guilds right now or not killed.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>if you want the loot, run the zone.   </p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p><cite>Syndarin@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What upset me is I'm not taking about fabled drops in the heroic version being close to the loot from the x2 version. The LEGENDARY loot is almost exactly the same.That is stupid.</p></blockquote><p>Where can I find pics of the loot?</p>

[Maamadex]

<blockquote><p>More Feedback:  Having the mission giver speak froak is a PITA.  Might consider changing that to something more common.  Half our group didn't even know it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>I don't really sympathize with this. Learning froak takes all of 15-20 mins. It's really not a huge inconvenience.</p>

[Humayon]

<p>Hands down, the best heroic zone i have seen this game. Kudos to the developer who came up with it.</p><p>No big hall where you spend 15 minutes cleaning the trash, small rooms, straight to the point. The hard modes are so demanding that you kind of forget about the surroundings within 5 seconds of a pull.</p><p>Definitely aimed at players who are geared and are skillful and from what i have seen so far, the loot seems justified.</p><p>First named has excessive memwipes which becomes a pain but still doable.</p><p>Third named iirc, first time i know of that you have to joust an ae in a group zone. Cool stuff.</p><p>Overall, highly impressed with the zone difficulty. Highlight for me in this update since that non-update you called 57.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p>PLayed with this quite a bit last night in multiple groups on multiple toons...</p><p>This might be better served as two separate instances, selected at zone in. If not feasible for this one then something to consider going forward, reason(s) . . .</p><p><ol><li>Noticed that a wipe on the first named causes the zone to set in hard mode. For groups going in for easy there is no indication you are in hard mode. After wiping a few times to the first named youre all done.</li><li>Hard mode at this point seems on par with both challenge and loot.</li><li>Easy mode - not sure if this was due to a hard mode bug, intended or not. On pull for first named - 2nd shot hit the tank for 58k, 3 seconds later the named dropped an aoe for 162k on the group. This happened in 2 groups, multiple times in each.</li></ol><div>Fun stuff though Kander~</div></p>

[xpraetorianx]

<p><cite>Humayon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hands down, the best heroic zone i have seen this game. Kudos to the developer who came up with it.</p><p>No big hall where you spend 15 minutes cleaning the trash, small rooms, straight to the point. The hard modes are so demanding that you kind of forget about the surroundings within 5 seconds of a pull.</p><p>Definitely aimed at players who are geared and are skillful and from what i have seen so far, the loot seems justified.</p><p>First named has excessive memwipes which becomes a pain but still doable.</p><p>Third named iirc, first time i know of that you have to joust an ae in a group zone. Cool stuff.</p><p>Overall, highly impressed with the zone difficulty. Highlight for me in this update since that non-update you called 57.</p></blockquote><p>Everyone keeps saying its the first time to joust an AOE in a group zone but that is just not the case.  You know you do joust 4 or 5 encounters in Erudin Research Halls you know.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>xpraetorianx wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Humayon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Hands down, the best heroic zone i have seen this game. Kudos to the developer who came up with it.</p><p>No big hall where you spend 15 minutes cleaning the trash, small rooms, straight to the point. The hard modes are so demanding that you kind of forget about the surroundings within 5 seconds of a pull.</p><p>Definitely aimed at players who are geared and are skillful and from what i have seen so far, the loot seems justified.</p><p>First named has excessive memwipes which becomes a pain but still doable.</p><p>Third named iirc, first time i know of that you have to joust an ae in a group zone. Cool stuff.</p><p>Overall, highly impressed with the zone difficulty. Highlight for me in this update since that non-update you called 57.</p></blockquote><p>Everyone keeps saying its the first time to joust an AOE in a group zone but that is just not the case.  You know you do joust 4 or 5 encounters in Erudin Research Halls you know.</p></blockquote><p>All the beam handlers, UNLESS, you kill them fast enough.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Initial impression is the HM bar is set too high if the target was a nizara style challenge.</p><p>I'm going to give it a little longer and perhaps playing when things aren't crashing left and right before passing judgement.</p><p>Glad to see a hard zone, but if its only for the top guild on each server its a bit too high, where nizara was more your top 6-12 folks from most raiding guilds could kill all but maybe the last named.</p>

[Alfeo]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Initial impression is the HM bar is set too high if the target was a nizara style challenge.</p><p>I'm going to give it a little longer and perhaps playing when things aren't crashing left and right before passing judgement.</p><p>Glad to see a hard zone, but if its only for the top guild on each server its a bit too high, where nizara was more your top 6-12 folks from most raiding guilds could kill all but maybe the last named.</p></blockquote><p>Well consider the quality of the loot. The fact that the beta buffer gave you all t3 to test the zone in. This zone is definitely geared for people who are already doing multiple hard modes in current progression. Which imo is fine cause again look at the loot, some are very close to hard mode loot, some are better, with a few even probably going to be best in slot for some classes. (even counting UD 3 wing loot). So given the sheer quality of stuff, they cant make it easier without nerfing the gear. Not to mention easy mode is there and the fabled drops from that part (though rare) are pretty excellent and easy (though time consuming) to get.</p><p>Also when you add in the fact that the expansion is feburary. Imo this gives something for people to work to if they can't already reach it. Farming the easy mode in fact will help alot in preparing for the hard mode even if you dont have access to as much gear as the top guilds on your server. I would just be deeply saddened if this zone was nerfed, its so [Removed for Content] nice to have something to work on when not in raids thats actually fun for a change.</p>

[LardLord]

<p>My impression is that the zone is supposed to challenge and reward guilds in the Ark/Vaclaz/Construct stage of raid progression, who have killed the five basic hard modes.  If you aren't farming those five basic hard modes, you're going to have trouble meeting the gear and DPS checks in the zone.  If you're past the Ark/Vaclaz/Construct stage and onto 4RT/W3, most (though not all) of the upgrades aren't going to be of much interest to you (like you probably don't care much for the charms, ect).</p><p>Considering there seems to be 4+ guilds farming the basic hard modes on most servers (I just checked the AB, LDL, and Guk progression threads), I don't think the target audience is all that tiny.  I would say that the hard mode version of this zone fits into raid progression in a way, in that if you want to have an easier time with it, you should try to get those five basic hard modes down.  Otherwise, just stick to the ez-mode - it's there for a reason <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Alfeo]

<p>Yup as it is, theres 3-4 guilds on Najena that could probably do pretty well in here with some effort, with 2-3 after that which would struggle but could probably make some progress on the first two named at least. As time would go by, more and more guilds would get better and better at the zone.</p><p>Imo thats proper for something like this which is supposed to be very challenging.</p>

[Urgol]

We got the first 2 nameds down np and are lacking the gear for the third named. The only really annoying thing is the debuff cleanse that all the mobs perform. This is not really adding difficulty to the encounters, just makes them more annoying.

[Thunndar316]

<p>What's up with the AoE on the 3rd namer?  Even on easy mode it is one shotting the group unless you joust a mile away.</p><p>Healer is out of range while jousted, it casts way too quick to interrupt, and timers on this AoE are very inconsistant ranging from 25 to 30+ seconds.</p><p>Would like to hear something other than bring a Shaman instead of a Warden.  Would also like to point out we are all raid geared in T2+.</p><p>With 20K+ resists the disease is still getting through on top of the slashing.  Yes a slashing plus disease AoE.  Is this intended on easy mode?</p>

[Terrius]

<p><cite>Thunndar316 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>What's up with the AoE on the 3rd namer?  Even on easy mode it is one shotting the group unless you joust a mile away.</p><p>Healer is out of range while jousted, it casts way too quick to interrupt, and timers on this AoE are very inconsistant ranging from 25 to 30+ seconds.</p><p>Would like to hear something other than bring a Shaman instead of a Warden.  Would also like to point out we are all raid geared in T2+.</p><p>With 20K+ resists the disease is still getting through on top of the slashing.  Yes a slashing plus disease AoE.  Is this intended on easy mode?</p></blockquote><p>At first I thought that AoE hit way too hard too, till we realised that it's easily avoidable with a good chanter. Also I think it only hits for both types of damage if you're infront of him. Least that's how it was happening to us whenever we didnt manage to interupt it.</p>

[xpraetorianx]

<p>Here is the issue with the zone though.  I have cleared Wing two of the hole.  Currently the only Hard Modes left for me are 4RT and Wing Three Mobs.  Even I can see that this zone still requires specific classes to be present a HIGH majority of the time.  I do not foresee ever taking certain classes into this zone.  The zone effectively cuts some players completely out of the equation for putting together a group to clear it.  Again, in a Vast majority of instances.  While I am an advocate of challenging zones I am not an advocate of making a zone challenging based on DPS checks only.  Which is what this zone is turning out to be.  I do call on the developers to take a look at the data of people going to this zone and comparing them across the entire network of servers. </p><p>For example I do not see a group going into this zone without a bard.. that is a given.  Or going into this zone with a bard that can not pop a 50k VC.  I see a Mystic being a necessity because of their proc ability.  I see alot of tanks being left out in favor for a Zerker MT.  I see alot of Paladins and Guardians and probably alot of Brawlers being left out of the mix as well.  As for healers I don't expect to see many Druids being called upon in this zone as a FIRST choice either. </p><p>I love difficult zones but not zones that leave out certain classes because of arbitrary dps numbers that developers come up with.  It is just not a proven formula for success and I think it needs to be looked at.</p><p>I hope someone in the know reads this and takes it to heart.</p>

[Chakos]

<p>*deleted*</p>

[Morghus]

<p>This is indeed a difficult zone in hard-mode, though I still believe the loot is too good for such a short lockout. It also seems to heavily penalize specific setups, with the majority of the battles appearing to favor melee based groups while being frustrating for mages. I as a mage probably will not run the zone again, and a few other mages I know generally agree that they would only do the zone using their enchanter.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>I think we're still missing something on the first named, or he's a bit broken.</p><p>I do not want to believe 'luck factor' is an intended chance of success, however with this script it absolutely seems so.</p><p>Just looking at the number of aggrowipes between pulls and at what times, health%'s, and conditions they are happening in makes it feel like I'm missing something or its just a luck factor encounter.</p><p>I've seen him go into a chain of back to back wipes (talking 5-10 wipes 1-2s apart) at 10s into the fight, I've also seen him wait and do that 70-80s into the fight.  Since aggro control is really the only challenge factor of the encounter, and the randomness that triggers the chain wiping vs the more subtle single wipe every 10-15s, pretty much leaves it as a luck factor fight.</p><p>The more dps you bring just means the window of luck you need is smaller, but it by no means makes the encounter anything more than luck based.</p>

[Jeal]

group heals and equipping several peices of the rancorous ire gear spread throughout this xpac allows for that fight to not be luck based even if it takes a while.

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Jeal@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>group heals and equipping several peices of the rancorous ire gear spread throughout this xpac allows for that fight to not be luck based even if it takes a while.</blockquote><p>Its funny that you consider relying on hate position procs to not be a luck factor as well <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I find if he wipes to a mage when his auto attack is due in <1s pretty much means the mage dies, regardless of rancorous ire.  When he goes into that process of chain wiping 5-10times in 10-15seconds, its pretty much game over for the cloth folks.</p><p>My point being, since the timing of those chain aggro wipes is varies tremendously pull to pull, its either a luck component, something hokey with the script, or we're missing some event that triggers the chain.</p><p>There are times he dies that he only does that chain once at the last 10-15% of health, and those pulls are the easy ones. </p><p>And then there are times he starts doing it at high health 10s in to the encounter.</p><p>I don't believe that level of randomness was the developers intended result, but I could be wrong.</p>

[Nubek]

<p>Having worked on the zone for several 3 hour sessions, we can kill the first and second named without much trouble. The first named is very setup dependent, but not too difficult if you have the right classes. Second named is a bit of an endurance fight, but not too difficult provided you have enough dps for the add. We still can't get the third mob down though. The frequency at which he spawns the adds is just a little too much for us. We're lacking dps to burn him to 0% before the adds become too much too handle, and mezzing them is also a problem when you have 6 or more up. Got the AoE jousting, as well as the blobs down, that's no longer a problem.. just the huge amount of adds gets us every time. Probably we're missing some part of the script, or the dps threshold is just very high.</p><p>Overall good work though, it's nice to have something challenging.</p><p>Group was: SK, Mystic, Inq, Troub, Lock and Coercer btw</p>

[snowli]

<p>Challenging content is great, no doubt about it, but my impression is this isn't really a scripted teamwork type of threshold in place here, it's a gear/classes type of threshold, which means very few setups but the most perfect will ever get to go, leaving many suboptimal classes no chances of ever going unless they are in the top 1-2 guilds per server.</p><p>For example on the first mob I can see a cleric, a shaman, a dirge and a coercer, and either 1 plate tank and 1 chain dps or 2 plate tanks. That's the sort of setup that most guilds anywhere below the very top guilds will have any sort of realistic chance at getting it down. For most guilds if you're not the classes listed, you probably only get to do wipes on ZUA hardmode until gear/aa advances like new expansions etc make it easier.</p><p>I'm sure people could jump in with how their druid healed it with a monk and 4 clothies, but that won't be reality for the vast majority of people who try.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p>Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.</p>

[Serik]

<p><cite>snowline wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Challenging content is great, no doubt about it, but my impression is this isn't really a scripted teamwork type of threshold in place here, it's a gear/classes type of threshold, which means very few setups but the most perfect will ever get to go, leaving many suboptimal classes no chances of ever going unless they are in the top 1-2 guilds per server.</p><p>For example on the first mob I can see a cleric, a shaman, a dirge and a coercer, and either 1 plate tank and 1 chain dps or 2 plate tanks. That's the sort of setup that most guilds anywhere below the very top guilds will have any sort of realistic chance at getting it down. For most guilds if you're not the classes listed, you probably only get to do wipes on ZUA hardmode until gear/aa advances like new expansions etc make it easier.</p><p>I'm sure people could jump in with how their druid healed it with a monk and 4 clothies, but that won't be reality for the vast majority of people who try.</p></blockquote><p>I've tanked this zone with a group setup of monk, dirge, coercer, brig, inq, and mystic, and we've got it down to 1-pulling everything.  It really is a steep gear/dps threshold but it's doable.  The one gripe that I have with this zone though is we've cleared this zone about 5 or 6 times on challenge mode and the red adorns from the last guy have yet to be dropped.  Didn't the drop rate of these get increased a few days ago?  Otherwise this is a really good zone.</p>

[Kander]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.</p></blockquote><p>It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.</p><p>There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.</p><p>How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p>I have 93% crit mit.  Fairly well raid geared in mostly T2 and some T3.  The first namer mem wipes constantly then turns around and one shots me for over 50K.</p><p>How am I supposed to survive this?  How is the tank supposed to have this many snaps?</p>

[Slowin]

<p><cite>Serik@Butcherblock wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>snowline wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Challenging content is great, no doubt about it, but my impression is this isn't really a scripted teamwork type of threshold in place here, it's a gear/classes type of threshold, which means very few setups but the most perfect will ever get to go, leaving many suboptimal classes no chances of ever going unless they are in the top 1-2 guilds per server.</p><p>For example on the first mob I can see a cleric, a shaman, a dirge and a coercer, and either 1 plate tank and 1 chain dps or 2 plate tanks. That's the sort of setup that most guilds anywhere below the very top guilds will have any sort of realistic chance at getting it down. For most guilds if you're not the classes listed, you probably only get to do wipes on ZUA hardmode until gear/aa advances like new expansions etc make it easier.</p><p>I'm sure people could jump in with how their druid healed it with a monk and 4 clothies, but that won't be reality for the vast majority of people who try.</p></blockquote><p>I've tanked this zone with a group setup of monk, dirge, coercer, brig, inq, and mystic, and we've got it down to 1-pulling everything.  It really is a steep gear/dps threshold but it's doable.  The one gripe that I have with this zone though is we've cleared this zone about 5 or 6 times on challenge mode and the red adorns from the last guy have yet to be dropped.  Didn't the drop rate of these get increased a few days ago?  Otherwise this is a really good zone.</p></blockquote><p>I've been extremely disappointed with the drops as well.  The good items (charms and cloaks) even on HM are turning out to be extremely rare.  Have cleared the zone 10 myself personally, and other groups in my guild ~ 10 times as well.  Collectively we've seen 1 charm and no cloaks but have made a crapton of plat at least. </p><p>I know the drop rate of the red adorns was increased, but it really should be 100%.  I'm starting to grow tired of running this zone over and over for a few hundred plat instead of seeing the upgrades we go there for.. especially since the drops for healers are pretty meh anyway.</p>

[slippery]

Please god make red adorns actually drop. I think I've cleared this zone 10-15 times on various characters. I've seen all of 2 red adorns, and they where both terrible (accuracy and increased riposte chance). If there isn't a realistic chance at getting the adorns we want it isn't worth running the zone.

[Ulrichvon]

<p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Please god make red adorns actually drop. I think I've cleared this zone 10-15 times on various characters. I've seen all of 2 red adorns, and they where both terrible (accuracy and increased riposte chance). If there isn't a realistic chance at getting the adorns we want it isn't worth running the zone.</blockquote><p>I don't believe the zone was intended to be used up in 2 weeks of rapid farming.</p><p>The high treadmill factor is expected given the quality of the loot from heroic mobs.  Reminds me of the rare drops in RoK that could take 150+ runs to get.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.</p></blockquote><p>It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.</p><p>There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.</p><p>How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?</p></blockquote><p>I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.</p></blockquote><p>It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.</p><p>There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.</p><p>How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?</p></blockquote><p>I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.</p></blockquote><p>Stifles should allow you to auto atk the named regardless.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.</p></blockquote><p>It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.</p><p>There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.</p><p>How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?</p></blockquote><p>I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.</p></blockquote><p>Stifles should allow you to auto atk the named regardless.</p></blockquote><p>For the named it's more or less the death saves and stoneskins, And debuffing the add.</p>

[Kander]

<p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.</p></blockquote><p>It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.</p><p>There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.</p><p>How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?</p></blockquote><p>I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.</p></blockquote><p>Looks like I found an issue, the spell was improperly flagged. My appologies. Adding to next hot fix.</p>

[Corydonn]

<p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Kander wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Corydonn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Tanking the second named on challenge mode really really really really makes me want to blurt obscenities at anyone and everyone. The ability Jolt, whereever it comes from seems to apply itself randomly and put a stun on me 80% of the time for a massive stunlock that prevents me from doing anything at all during this encounter, except bash my keyboard in rage as I can't use a stoneskin or deathsave I've had on queue for a good 12-15 seconds or help aid in debuffing the add that needs to die in an amount of time that I can't help at all on because of this stupid mob of randomness. Just, Auuuugh.</p></blockquote><p>It's a root/stifle, that lasts 3 seconds and is useable every 30 seconds.  It's a non-scripted regular casted innate spell.</p><p>There is nothing random about it, in fact it is very straight forward.</p><p>How would you suggest I change it without making the encounter easier?</p></blockquote><p>I'm fairly certain the ability triggers more than once every 30 seconds as I've seen it hit me atleast 3 times in a period of five seconds, I'll have to have someone get the combat logs for me to check again. I'd just like to be able to actually do something on the encounter rather than being a sponge unable to help on add dps or damage the named.</p></blockquote><p>Looks like I found an issue, the spell was improperly flagged. My appologies. Adding to next hot fix.</p></blockquote><p>Thanks Sir! This fight should be alot less frustrating to tank now.</p>

[Slowin]

<p>Regarding how the third named works.  Is it actually intended that the goos that spawn can be killed via AoE auto attack but not any other type of free aoe? </p><p>It struck me as odd that a legit strat for this fight is to just stack up classes with aoe auto attack.  However, if this is a bug and its subsequently fixed i think extending the amount of time between blob spawns would be in order. </p><p>This fight is by FAR the most irritating fight in this zone when the blobs don't die like they are supposed to <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Sydares]

<p>The third fight is irritating period. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" /></p>

[slippery]

<p><cite>Ulrichvon wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>slippery wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Please god make red adorns actually drop. I think I've cleared this zone 10-15 times on various characters. I've seen all of 2 red adorns, and they where both terrible (accuracy and increased riposte chance). If there isn't a realistic chance at getting the adorns we want it isn't worth running the zone.</blockquote><p>I don't believe the zone was intended to be used up in 2 weeks of rapid farming.</p><p>The high treadmill factor is expected given the quality of the loot from heroic mobs.  Reminds me of the rare drops in RoK that could take 150+ runs to get.</p></blockquote><p>Even if the zone was guaranteed to drop one red adorn per run and you only ran it with a consistent 6 person group it would still likely take months for everyone in the group to get the 2-3 adorns they want. The fact is there are what, 10-12 red adorns? You'd still be rolling against the rng on getting the one you want if they where a guaranteed drop, and you'd still need to farm the zone.</p><p>How it is now we may never see the adorns people want. Congratulations on loot that will go undiscovered this expansion, because they are too rare, with too small a base of people doing the content, and no real desire to continue to do it with as rare as they are.</p><p>I kind of wish I knew how many times the last guy had been killed on hard across all servers. I think it would illustrate the point well. Has anyone even seen a single cb/pot (which you messed up and their are 2 of) adorn drop? Reuse? Flurry? Spell Double (which is identical to the merchant bought one btw)</p><p>There has to be a reasonable chance for people to get something for them to do it. Especially in a zone that requires well geared players and still isn't just a walk through.</p>

[Slowin]

<p>Since the change i've seen adornments drop 2 out of 3 times we went.  I think we've seen 4 total adornments.  Crit/pot, aoe auto attack, reuse, and riposte chance.</p><p>I still think that anything less than 100% drop rate is not enough though.</p>

[slippery]

We've seen 1 in I think 6 times through since the patch, riposte. In response to your comment about the blobs and ae auto, that is simply a result of the fact that ae auto counts as a direct attack so the fact that the blobs are immune doesn't matter. Unless they make AE auto an ae instead of a direct attack, this will likely always be the result on things like this.

[Kreton]

<p>I believe we are 3 for 6 on adorns dropping from the last guy since the change to the drop rate.  Prior to that, we saw none having run the zone nearly every day since it went live. We've seen Greater Reuse twice and Intimidation (one of the 1.5% cb/pot ones) once.  Certainly a guaranteed drop wouldn't be bad considering how many there are and how many a guild needs.  Or if it's going to be a low drop rate, make it a "pick your own adorn" crate.</p><p>We've also only seen the second name drop a cloak once, a healer cloak.</p>

[daray]

<cite>Slowin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Regarding how the third named works.  Is it actually intended that the goos that spawn can be killed via AoE auto attack but not any other type of free aoe? </p></blockquote> <cite>slippery wrote:</cite><blockquote>In response to your comment about the blobs and ae auto, that is simply a result of the fact that ae auto counts as a direct attack so the fact that the blobs are immune doesn't matter. Unless they make AE auto an ae instead of a direct attack, this will likely always be the result on things like this.</blockquote> No idea if it is intended or not, but if it is not, then simple workarounds could include boosting the corpuscles' HP pools to unrealistic amounts (where they no longer get one shot), or giving them some permanent stoneskin type buff, etc. Until indicated otherwise, I can only assume that this is a viable tactic, even if it does somewhat trivialize the encounter with a certain group build.

[HeionEQ]

<p>I haven't done this zone on test, but just wanted to say THANK YOU. This zone is a blast and would love to see more hard modes added.</p>