I need to leech to survive.

[sargonnath]

<p>Hello!</p><p>Today, I discovered that I was a leecher.I didn't know this word before and asked for its meaning.</p><p>Yes. Level 30 I am, and on a WF that occured in CL1, while another was running in CL2 and started before, they were around 40 players in the WF. And not a single opponent in my range level: they started at level 40 or 45.</p><p>So that, when this occurs, I am used to come and help my side by rooting, stunning, debuffing opponents that are 10 to 20 levels more that me, most of the time. I learnt that it wasn't popular.But the other way would have been to sit on the ground, and wait AFK that the WF finishes, and it didn't look to me an acceptable solution neither.</p><p>Players do argue that while you are leeching, you are some way gainning easy victories, gaining tokens at low risk.And its quite true, except that you can be wiped in one single shot, if detected, in the other hand. Adding to that, when you are debuffing, you are debuffing less than a player of the expected level, and we can say that you are not doing an impressive work. But when you are rooting and stunning, it's another story: the opponent is stuck and really stuck with no level consideration. Knowing the value of having rooted or stunned an opponent, can you say that you have done nothing? I don't believe so.</p><p>If leeching is an unacceptable way of pvping, what about groups of six rising a hill and running against a single opponent? Is it fair? Does he have a chance?</p><p>When in a 10 level range WF you are level 41 and you encounter a level 50, how do you think this will end? Even in the case you have the same class and you will use the same spell (let's say: an imaginary <em>Destroy V</em> whose update would come only at level 51), the EQ 2 engine <strong>adds</strong> bonus to the orange player and malus to the green player, in addition to what the skill increase itself would give. If you are level 41 and fight a level 45, you are not fighing someone with the additionnal difficulty that he has 20 more skills points than you in each skill, but 20 more skills points in each skill + you get an overall malus to hit, damage, and so of 15 or 20%, arbitrary, by the EQ 2 engine. If you meet the same character (same stuff) with 9 level more than you, you have no chance.</p><p>This all mean that you can spend hours in WF without gaining any battle if you do not force your luck.</p><p>Regards,</p><p>--- Hey! How can I be anonymous here? ---</p><p>--- /anon ------ /anon ------ /anon ! ---</p><p>Arghhh.....</p>

[Killque]

<p>A very well thought, articulated and most importantly, <strong>True,</strong> post.</p><p>I have started over on Nagafen, and even with all my previous experience, level and gear are still the deciding factor in every fight.</p><p>To obtain PvP gear, you need to kill players. To kill players, you need PvP gear.</p><p>Leaching is really the only option for those just starting out, or signifigantly undergeared.</p>

[Azekah1]

<p>yea, I just resubbed and pulled out my level 46 swashy in full MC/masters. I ran up to a green zerker, unloaded on him for about 20 seconds. He was still in the green, and I my health was in the yellow and dropping fast. I can understand having a close fight, but his health wasn't even budging. Maybe the toughness nerf will help? Anyway, I switched to my coercer and was doing better, but it's a lot to get used to, and a lot of gear catching up to do. I guess it was nice when you could create a character, get a few AA, craft yourself a set of MC/adept III's and go out and pvp. Made having lots of alts fun. Now I'm probably gonna have to stick with one character to save up tokens for pvp gear. Oh well, I guess this is what the pvp community asked for, I'll just have to adapt.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Remove level ranges then see how many people want to "leech"</p>

[Chakos]

<p>I don't have an issue with leeching itself, per se, as I do with the fact that it does not reward the one being leeched on at all -- the modest faction means nothing, as most you leech from likely are at max faction already. Since you get an update on a successful leech, the target of your leeching deserves a writ update for offing you for doing it. As little as you think your debuffs do, the fact that they land as easily on a 90 player as they do an even con player for you makes it impressive enough work; after the change to cures goes live, the work becomes exponentially more impressive as players have lessened ability to remove the debuffs and such that actually ARE impacting them greatly due to yours potentially wasting their cures.</p><p>As far as the poster who had trouble with the green zerker, at that level it wasn't so much the toughness, though it is a factor, or even the pvp jewelry ward, a factor as well, as it is likely the removal of the AA spending cap for those 30+. You having just resubbed, you likely had a huge AA deficit in comparison to him, which at that tier turns that green con into a tremendous undercon to you. Since MC of those tiers now has toughness on it, very near that of the pvp gear purchased, you cannot point to that as the difference in damage dealt vs that you received; the ward is also easily overcome t3+. Time to grind AA <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Back to the OP, to say you have no chance vs a player 9 levels higher than you, that is not a given. I admit if the higher level player has any skill whatsoever, it will be unlikely, depending on the class -- just don't assume level itself is the only deciding factor, you could surprise yourself. Just be sure to take the time to grind your AA if you choose to pvp in your tier, as others are sure to have (as so many do lock toons within your tier range specifically for pvp).</p>

[Azekah1]

<p><cite>Chakos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As far as the poster who had trouble with the green zerker, at that level it wasn't so much the toughness, though it is a factor, or even the pvp jewelry ward, a factor as well, as it is likely the removal of the AA spending cap for those 30+. You having just resubbed, you likely had a huge AA deficit in comparison to him, which at that tier turns that green con into a tremendous undercon to you. Since MC of those tiers now has toughness on it, very near that of the pvp gear purchased, you cannot point to that as the difference in damage dealt vs that you received; the ward is also easily overcome t3+. Time to grind AA <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>oh ok, that makes sense. sooo, anyone looking to make some plat and help me grind out some AA??? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I only have 7 alts to get caught up <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Neutraliz]

<p>what you seem to fail to recognize is that if leechers didn't exist then there would be no extra stun or root on you that would hinder you enable to fight someone your level range.</p><p>Your fighting in a warfield, and i assume your a freep so at the level ranges your pointing out there are way more freeps than q's, and a grey comes and taunts you off a target, and taunt locks you onto them. the grey has a healer in group, and is only 9-15 levels below you. if they have toughness gear on, your not one shotting them, they become a nuisance and eventually, unless you can get your previous target back, the force from the greys (which isn't always big, but can be) and the person your level range might cause you to die.</p><p>grey leechers need to have all hit rates/spell resists reduced greatly in pvp combat to match that of PvE combat. an army of greys can decide a fight for sure, and me as a qeynos player in t5 (level 40 lock) greys that help the already outnumbering freeport numbers of the tier only create more frustration to a pvp situation.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>forget all of that stuff and just remove level ranges, the leeching problem will solve itself at that point</p>

[Ammem]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>forget all of that stuff and just remove level ranges, the leeching problem will solve itself at that point</p></blockquote><p>Or how about you actually play on a PvP server, gain some experience and then post on PvP forums and issues.</p><p>BGs =/= open world PvP.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>is 70 a good level to avoid high level pvp?</p>

[Ralpmet]

<p><cite>Ammemti wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>forget all of that stuff and just remove level ranges, the leeching problem will solve itself at that point</p></blockquote><p>Or how about you actually play on a PvP server, gain some experience and then post on PvP forums and issues.</p><p>BGs =/= open world PvP.</p></blockquote><p>"Blasting undergeared players in the BG" is not open world PvP, and gives you no knowledge of it.</p>

[Crismorn]

<p>Freetokenfields is hard work son</p>

[Ammem]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>is 70 a good level to avoid high level pvp?</p></blockquote><p>Since you don't play on PvP server, you wouldn't know that I also have a 90 mystic.</p>

[Ralpmet]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Freetokenfields is hard work son</p></blockquote><p>Translation:</p><p><div><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>PvP only happens in warfields</p></blockquote><p>Translation:</p><p><div><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I have no idea how an open world PvP environment works and should stop flaming every post I touch.</p></blockquote></div></p></div></p>

[Crismorn]

<p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Freetokenfields is hard work son</p></blockquote>

[Chakos]

<p><cite>Ammemti wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>forget all of that stuff and just remove level ranges, the leeching problem will solve itself at that point</p></blockquote><p>Or how about you actually play on a PvP server, gain some experience and then post on PvP forums and issues.</p><p>BGs =/= open world PvP.</p></blockquote><p>Yourself, and folks like you (Ralpmet, for example, as seen in his posts here), need to stop your own pointless trolling. What Cris says certainly worked in EQ1, and theoretically could here, IF those who play on PvP servers hadn't changed so drastically in the past few years.</p><p>While I don't think his post will work in our current PvP model due to the types playing here, it is a valid option -- hell, if nothing else, no level ranges would solve the leeching problem, even if the griefing of lowbies might rise in its place.</p><p>Point being, while I do often see Cris troll our forums, it usually begins with someone such as yourself trolling him first with a comment like yours; him not playing on our broken PvP servers does not make his contributions irrelevent. Check his posts on the total separation of PvE and PvP gear on our server -- his posts are on point and make more sense than 60% or more of those made by many others on our PvP server.</p><p>*editted for typos*</p>

[Ralpmet]

<p><cite>Chakos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Ammemti wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>forget all of that stuff and just remove level ranges, the leeching problem will solve itself at that point</p></blockquote><p>Or how about you actually play on a PvP server, gain some experience and then post on PvP forums and issues.</p><p>BGs =/= open world PvP.</p></blockquote><p>Yourself, and folks like you (Ralpmet, for example, as seen in his posts here), need to stop your own pointless trolling. What Cris says certainly worked in EQ1, and theoretically could here, IF those who play on PvP servers hadn't changed so drastically in the past few years.</p><p>While I don't think his post will work in our current PvP model due to the types playing here, it is a valid option -- hell, if nothing else, no level ranges would solve the leeching problem, even if the griefing of lowbies might rise in its place.</p><p>Point being, while I do often see Cris troll our forums, it usually begins with someone such as yourself trolling him first with a comment like yours; him not playing on our broken PvP servers does not make his contributions irrelevent. Check his posts on the total separation of PvE and PvP gear on our server -- his posts are on point and make more sense than 60% or more of those made by many others on our PvP server.</p><p>*editted for typos*</p></blockquote><p>Or, we could take reasonable suggestions, like one of the first post I made that takes into account for the style of PvP we currently have. Calling me a pointless troll just makes you look stupid.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476086">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476086</a></p><p><div><p><cite>Ralpmet wrote on<span style="text-decoration: underline;"> </span></cite><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;"><em><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">04/08/2010 19:54:31</span></strong></em></span><span style="font-size: 11px; font-style: italic; font-weight: bold;"><span style="text-decoration: underline;">:</span></span></p><blockquote><p>Please, for the love of all that is pvp, make it so when a grey attacks a red they get carnage flagged. In any other circumstance, when you break a rule (pvp level range in this instance) you get punished. These guys are not only not getting punished, they're being rewarded. It's encouraged with the current setup.</p><p>So please, I don't care if people don't think this is important, for the love of open world pvp, make it so when you attack someone outside of your level range it results in some sort of carnage flag, no matter how short.</p><div></div></blockquote></div></p><p>See the date on that post? Telling us that a guy who PVE's and has NEVER set foot on our PvP server isn't trolling when he comes in here and makes random suggestions that would not work with our current system is not only poor judgement but it encourages him. </p><p>Oh, the gear thing? Wouldn't be because he plays in the BG's and uses the same gear would it? God forbid he'd understand how at least that part of PvP works. Refrain from mentioning my name in any of your posts in the future, or referencing any of my ideas, because you clearly don't understand what's going on. "Oh no, ralpmet replied to him after <strong>he trolled our server</strong> what a terrible person!"</p><p>edit:</p><p>Someone who has 0 pvp experience making 1 line suggestions is just trolling. You must be new to the internet if you don't think he's just throwing 1 liners out there to get a flamefest going, he brags about it on the other forums in pm's and publicly. </p>

[Chakos]

<p><cite>Ralpmet wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Or, we could take reasonable suggestions, like one of the first post I made that takes into account for the style of PvP we currently have. Calling me a pointless troll just makes you look stupid.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=476086">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=476086</a></p><p>See the date on that post? Telling us that a guy who PVE's and has NEVER set foot on our PvP server isn't trolling when he comes in here and makes random suggestions that would not work with our current system is not only poor judgement but it encourages him. </p><p>Oh, the gear thing? Wouldn't be because he plays in the BG's and uses the same gear would it? God forbid he'd understand how at least that part of PvP works. Refrain from mentioning my name in any of your posts in the future, or referencing any of my ideas, because you clearly don't understand what's going on. "Oh no, ralpmet replied to him after <strong>he trolled our server</strong> what a terrible person!"</p><p>edit:</p><p>Someone who has 0 pvp experience making 1 line suggestions is just trolling. You must be new to the internet if you don't think he's just throwing 1 liners out there to get a flamefest going, he brags about it on the other forums in pm's and publicly. </p></blockquote><p>Calling you a pointless troll is accurate. Not referring to every post you have ever made, but the ones in this post, certainly, and again in the one Notsoevilpriest started on the group cure change upcoming, prove it. You ruin anything constructive you may have to say by being an idiot in following ones or in reply to ones that you feel sleight you in any way.</p><p>His one line was not trolling, it is an honest opinion on something that could have an impact on the problems people are posting about. Do I agree with this particular opinion of his, based on the current state of our pvp server? No. But rather than point out what you think is flawed about his "1 line suggestions", you choose to throw in your pointless trolling.</p><p>Your comment about the gear thing, assuming you are referring to my mentioning his posts in the thread concerning Pve and PvP gear on our server, he was NOT defending PvP (and BG, as a result) gear being the only viable PvP option. The point of that thread had been PvE gear (armor in particular) should not be useless / near useless in PvP, as it is now. He agreed with many that it made no sense and even tried to explain (in very simple reasoning) why PvE armor should be viable for us in PvP, that PvP armor should not be the only option for PvP survival as several others in that thread thought.</p><p>As far as refraining from mentioning you name in my posts, or your ideas, you can forget that. If I feel it necessary, I will. You, more often than not, present yourself as an idiot because of your own lack of understanding / need to inflate your own ego in nearly every post -- such as your post quoted.</p><p>And you must be new to the internet if you are correct in that he throws out those "1 liners" to get a flamefest going, since you bite every single time.</p>