New lowbie items supposed to "balance?" [Archive]

Wigg

10-02-2010, 05:02 PM

<cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol at u PVE people, you must have EVERYTHING. Yet when tank items that have stonewill have been broken on pvp servers for months and months and give pvp values in pve, do you guys care? Do u guys support anything about our way of playing?. No you don't. Roll on a pvp server and earn that gear if you like it so much. If not stick to your PVE play it there and get what u can get over there. You arent PVP be happy that u even have a BG and u can fight against others.</blockquote>For probably the 1000x saying this. I DON'T WANT GEAR OTHERS DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO!! I really am suprised at the pvp servers with how many of them are afraid of PVE players getting their gear... quite shocking.You want construction, fix the current items we have first. EX. You want balance? add Herioc resistance X to the BG chest. Every one of those items needs at least 50 ability modifier added to them for the mage equipment for people to even think about using them. I would go as far as to say add 100 to them all or 50 + pvp potency. On the Weapon, add 2 or 3% reuse speed so people who get their myth enervated have an option to buy a weapon for BGs they can use. Either that or more additional stats like the ability modier, pvp potency, or crit bonus to put it in line with other weapons available at this tier. You shouldn't have to cut your stats by 1/4 just to get mutilation proc/toughness. Prices of the items. These items have worse stats than the old BG equipment and yet cost twice as much? If they are going to cost twice as much put them in line with current pvp items or if you really want balance across servers, make them better.

balitiiger

10-02-2010, 05:11 PM

If the fact that BG came and alot of the items we got from pvp merchant werent "fixed" aka nerfed thanks to their whining I wouldnt care. Fact of the matter is alot fo the things they asked nerf for there were PVE counterparts to those items. Yet did they bother to look for them or to go and try to obtain them. No they just asked for the things that we had lived with spent time and effort to get to be changed. That is the reason why I am upset personally. Which probably shows in my previous posts, sry bout that but meh it is what it is.And thaddeus you chose to play on a PVE server so be happy with the PVP portion that you get!!

Wigg

10-02-2010, 05:19 PM

<cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the fact that BG came and alot of the items we got from pvp merchant werent "fixed" aka nerfed thanks to their whining I wouldnt care. Fact of the matter is alot fo the things they asked nerf for there were PVE counterparts to those items. Yet did they bother to look for them or to go and try to obtain them. No they just asked for the things that we had lived with spent time and effort to get to be changed. That is the reason why I am upset personally. Which probably shows in my previous posts, sry bout that but meh it is what it is.And thaddeus you chose to play on a PVE server so be happy with the PVP portion that you get!!</blockquote>Balitiiger we would be happy with it if it was fair. It is like going into a match with Adept IIIs being the highest your server could obtain against a server that can get masters. We aren't asking for handouts, but the option to obtain the same gear that is available to pvp. Those items were all originally made as raid gear and were then added to the merchants because of the people complaining about the difference in raid gear/pvp gear. Since they were originally made and used as raid gear, there is no reason they should not be available on pve servers on merchants just as they are on your server. It will "trivialize" pve is one reason I have heard. If it "trivialize's pve" then it shouldn't be available on any server. The items that people are requesting be added to the BG merchants are all items an entire tier old and an expansion pack behind. Why is there such a problem with this?And if we want to talk about items and such making things trivialized, how about your master exchange merchant? That guy should have disappeared when they allowed people to betray and keep their class. Instead, now you can buy any master for your class or the apposing one and trade it for one of yours.

Hikinami

10-02-2010, 05:20 PM

Signet of devouring just looks like a copy of ring of blood and rage.

ThadeusOfShibboleth

10-02-2010, 05:21 PM

Exactly, and you forget, this was designed as a PvE game, not PvP. So you think we want everything, [Removed for Content] right we do. Make it fair, make it balanced. I don't care if there is broken gear on PvE. I don't care if there is broken gear on PvP. IT ALL needs to be fixed and BALANCED. For the record, if I didn't have seven 90's and years of time and gameplay on a PvE server...I would roll PvP, but I'm not about to leave everything I've done in the gutter and start from scratch.Again I ask you...WHY are you so opposed to balance?

Wigg

10-02-2010, 05:24 PM

<cite>Hikinami@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Signet of devouring just looks like a copy of ring of blood and rage.</blockquote>That's because those items are all copies of raid dropped items. PVP players were complaining about raiders on their server owning in pvp because of the loot available. So SOE instead of saying, "uh, they worked for it," caved and gave them those items on the pvp merchants to make it fair. Chaos rift earring, signet of devouring, and many others are just the raid gear with a different name. Either one of two things needs to happen to make this situation fair. 1. Remove the items from pvp merchants and make them back raid like pve.2. Add them to BG merchants and make pve players kill for the items like the pvp servers do.As it stands, pvp has 2 ways to obtain these items, pve has 1. And trust me, it is a LOT easier to get kill writs completed than to get 4 competent groups of 80-89 to go raid old zones for loot for BGs.

balitiiger

10-02-2010, 05:32 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the fact that BG came and alot of the items we got from pvp merchant werent "fixed" aka nerfed thanks to their whining I wouldnt care. Fact of the matter is alot fo the things they asked nerf for there were PVE counterparts to those items. Yet did they bother to look for them or to go and try to obtain them. No they just asked for the things that we had lived with spent time and effort to get to be changed. That is the reason why I am upset personally. Which probably shows in my previous posts, sry bout that but meh it is what it is.And thaddeus you chose to play on a PVE server so be happy with the PVP portion that you get!!</blockquote>Balitiiger we would be happy with it if it was fair. It is like going into a match with Adept IIIs being the highest your server could obtain against a server that can get masters. We aren't asking for handouts, but the option to obtain the same gear that is available to pvp. Those items were all originally made as raid gear and were then added to the merchants because of the people complaining about the difference in raid gear/pvp gear. Since they were originally made and used as raid gear, there is no reason they should not be available on pve servers on merchants just as they are on your server. It will "trivialize" pve is one reason I have heard. If it "trivialize's pve" then it shouldn't be available on any server. The items that people are requesting be added to the BG merchants are all items an entire tier old and an expansion pack behind. Why is there such a problem with this?And if we want to talk about items and such making things trivialized, how about your master exchange merchant? That guy should have disappeared when they allowed people to betray and keep their class. Instead, now you can buy any master for your class or the apposing one and trade it for one of yours.</blockquote>They were added since some people on the pvp servers came on the server to pvp not pve to pvp. There were people who would have rather spent time pvping than in raid zones and pve'ing. And it didn't make sense for pve being more rewarding than pvp. Which it was. And for that ring that you posted and cried about thaddeus go and run Tomb of Mad Crusader. It is available for you. Exactly as i said before it is available yet u say it isnt. The robe yeah that is something different it isn't available. I know that that zone is still something people want to run because the PVE version of the ring can be worn by priests and mages not just by mages like the pvp one.

balitiiger

10-02-2010, 05:35 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hikinami@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Signet of devouring just looks like a copy of ring of blood and rage.</blockquote>That's because those items are all copies of raid dropped items. PVP players were complaining about raiders on their server owning in pvp because of the loot available. So SOE instead of saying, "uh, they worked for it," caved and gave them those items on the pvp merchants to make it fair. Chaos rift earring, signet of devouring, and many others are just the raid gear with a different name. Either one of two things needs to happen to make this situation fair. 1. Remove the items from pvp merchants and make them back raid like pve.2. Add them to BG merchants and make pve players kill for the items like the pvp servers do.As it stands, pvp has 2 ways to obtain these items, pve has 1. And trust me, it is a LOT easier to get kill writs completed than to get 4 competent groups of 80-89 to go raid old zones for loot for BGs.</blockquote>4 competent groups? At most you need a group or two to go finish those zones.

Wigg

10-02-2010, 05:38 PM

<cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the fact that BG came and alot of the items we got from pvp merchant werent "fixed" aka nerfed thanks to their whining I wouldnt care. Fact of the matter is alot fo the things they asked nerf for there were PVE counterparts to those items. Yet did they bother to look for them or to go and try to obtain them. No they just asked for the things that we had lived with spent time and effort to get to be changed. That is the reason why I am upset personally. Which probably shows in my previous posts, sry bout that but meh it is what it is.And thaddeus you chose to play on a PVE server so be happy with the PVP portion that you get!!</blockquote>Balitiiger we would be happy with it if it was fair. It is like going into a match with Adept IIIs being the highest your server could obtain against a server that can get masters. We aren't asking for handouts, but the option to obtain the same gear that is available to pvp. Those items were all originally made as raid gear and were then added to the merchants because of the people complaining about the difference in raid gear/pvp gear. Since they were originally made and used as raid gear, there is no reason they should not be available on pve servers on merchants just as they are on your server. It will "trivialize" pve is one reason I have heard. If it "trivialize's pve" then it shouldn't be available on any server. The items that people are requesting be added to the BG merchants are all items an entire tier old and an expansion pack behind. Why is there such a problem with this?And if we want to talk about items and such making things trivialized, how about your master exchange merchant? That guy should have disappeared when they allowed people to betray and keep their class. Instead, now you can buy any master for your class or the apposing one and trade it for one of yours.</blockquote>They were added since some people on the pvp servers came on the server to pvp not pve to pvp. There were people who would have rather spent time pvping than in raid zones and pve'ing. And it didn't make sense for pve being more rewarding than pvp. Which it was. And for that ring that you posted and cried about thaddeus go and run Tomb of Mad Crusader. It is available for you. Exactly as i said before it is available yet u say it isnt. The robe yeah that is something different it isn't available. I know that that zone is still something people want to run because the PVE version of the ring can be worn by priests and mages not just by mages like the pvp one.</blockquote>So again I ask, why is that ring supposedly overpowered for PvE if there is another out there that is available that can be worn by more? Also, apparently since you didn't read my post all the way through, I will say it again. Which is easier, completing 10 Warfields and 10 writs while in the warfield, or finding 24 competent players who are willing to run ToMC and let you win that ring for level 80 BGs??

balitiiger

10-02-2010, 05:38 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the fact that BG came and alot of the items we got from pvp merchant werent "fixed" aka nerfed thanks to their whining I wouldnt care. Fact of the matter is alot fo the things they asked nerf for there were PVE counterparts to those items. Yet did they bother to look for them or to go and try to obtain them. No they just asked for the things that we had lived with spent time and effort to get to be changed. That is the reason why I am upset personally. Which probably shows in my previous posts, sry bout that but meh it is what it is.And thaddeus you chose to play on a PVE server so be happy with the PVP portion that you get!!</blockquote>Balitiiger we would be happy with it if it was fair. It is like going into a match with Adept IIIs being the highest your server could obtain against a server that can get masters. We aren't asking for handouts, but the option to obtain the same gear that is available to pvp. Those items were all originally made as raid gear and were then added to the merchants because of the people complaining about the difference in raid gear/pvp gear. Since they were originally made and used as raid gear, there is no reason they should not be available on pve servers on merchants just as they are on your server. It will "trivialize" pve is one reason I have heard. If it "trivialize's pve" then it shouldn't be available on any server. The items that people are requesting be added to the BG merchants are all items an entire tier old and an expansion pack behind. Why is there such a problem with this?And if we want to talk about items and such making things trivialized, how about your master exchange merchant? That guy should have disappeared when they allowed people to betray and keep their class. Instead, now you can buy any master for your class or the apposing one and trade it for one of yours.</blockquote>Underlined part, I dont know about your servers population but for mine good luck in finding anything up on the broker for sale for anything of a decent price. Small amount of people = less people running zones less drops bla bla bla.In the end it gives a tad bit of viability for us to gear ourselves up compared to servers that have a healthy population.And you are mistaken if you do not get your class's master if u take the opposite one there. It gives you RANDOM one from opposite side or neutral classes. So taking a master there is no guarantee of getting anything useable.

Wigg

10-02-2010, 05:41 PM

<cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hikinami@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Signet of devouring just looks like a copy of ring of blood and rage.</blockquote>That's because those items are all copies of raid dropped items. PVP players were complaining about raiders on their server owning in pvp because of the loot available. So SOE instead of saying, "uh, they worked for it," caved and gave them those items on the pvp merchants to make it fair. Chaos rift earring, signet of devouring, and many others are just the raid gear with a different name. Either one of two things needs to happen to make this situation fair. 1. Remove the items from pvp merchants and make them back raid like pve.2. Add them to BG merchants and make pve players kill for the items like the pvp servers do.As it stands, pvp has 2 ways to obtain these items, pve has 1. And trust me, it is a LOT easier to get kill writs completed than to get 4 competent groups of 80-89 to go raid old zones for loot for BGs.</blockquote>4 competent groups? At most you need a group or two to go finish those zones.</blockquote>People on PVE only want to run it as flawless. To get flawless on Gynok you are required to have at least 5 or 6 healers to cure all the curses to assure everyone lives. You going to do the whole zone with 2 groups 6 players of which are healers?

balitiiger

10-02-2010, 05:42 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the fact that BG came and alot of the items we got from pvp merchant werent "fixed" aka nerfed thanks to their whining I wouldnt care. Fact of the matter is alot fo the things they asked nerf for there were PVE counterparts to those items. Yet did they bother to look for them or to go and try to obtain them. No they just asked for the things that we had lived with spent time and effort to get to be changed. That is the reason why I am upset personally. Which probably shows in my previous posts, sry bout that but meh it is what it is.And thaddeus you chose to play on a PVE server so be happy with the PVP portion that you get!!</blockquote>Balitiiger we would be happy with it if it was fair. It is like going into a match with Adept IIIs being the highest your server could obtain against a server that can get masters. We aren't asking for handouts, but the option to obtain the same gear that is available to pvp. Those items were all originally made as raid gear and were then added to the merchants because of the people complaining about the difference in raid gear/pvp gear. Since they were originally made and used as raid gear, there is no reason they should not be available on pve servers on merchants just as they are on your server. It will "trivialize" pve is one reason I have heard. If it "trivialize's pve" then it shouldn't be available on any server. The items that people are requesting be added to the BG merchants are all items an entire tier old and an expansion pack behind. Why is there such a problem with this?And if we want to talk about items and such making things trivialized, how about your master exchange merchant? That guy should have disappeared when they allowed people to betray and keep their class. Instead, now you can buy any master for your class or the apposing one and trade it for one of yours.</blockquote>They were added since some people on the pvp servers came on the server to pvp not pve to pvp. There were people who would have rather spent time pvping than in raid zones and pve'ing. And it didn't make sense for pve being more rewarding than pvp. Which it was. And for that ring that you posted and cried about thaddeus go and run Tomb of Mad Crusader. It is available for you. Exactly as i said before it is available yet u say it isnt. The robe yeah that is something different it isn't available. I know that that zone is still something people want to run because the PVE version of the ring can be worn by priests and mages not just by mages like the pvp one.</blockquote>So again I ask, why is that ring supposedly overpowered for PvE if there is another out there that is available that can be worn by more? Also, apparently since you didn't read my post all the way through, I will say it again. Which is easier, completing 10 Warfields and 10 writs while in the warfield, or finding 24 competent players who are willing to run ToMC and let you win that ring for level 80 BGs?? </blockquote>Easier to find 6-12 people and run that zone. Easier to find those people and will be quicker than 10 warfields and 10 writs.

balitiiger

10-02-2010, 05:44 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hikinami@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Signet of devouring just looks like a copy of ring of blood and rage.</blockquote>That's because those items are all copies of raid dropped items. PVP players were complaining about raiders on their server owning in pvp because of the loot available. So SOE instead of saying, "uh, they worked for it," caved and gave them those items on the pvp merchants to make it fair. Chaos rift earring, signet of devouring, and many others are just the raid gear with a different name. Either one of two things needs to happen to make this situation fair. 1. Remove the items from pvp merchants and make them back raid like pve.2. Add them to BG merchants and make pve players kill for the items like the pvp servers do.As it stands, pvp has 2 ways to obtain these items, pve has 1. And trust me, it is a LOT easier to get kill writs completed than to get 4 competent groups of 80-89 to go raid old zones for loot for BGs.</blockquote>4 competent groups? At most you need a group or two to go finish those zones.</blockquote>People on PVE only want to run it as flawless. To get flawless on Gynok you are required to have at least 5 or 6 healers to cure all the curses to assure everyone lives. You going to do the whole zone with 2 groups 6 players of which are healers?</blockquote>Does not have to be flawless for the item. If you are going there for flawless u are going there for that. That is in no way connected to the issue discussed before.

Wigg

10-02-2010, 05:50 PM

<cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Hikinami@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Signet of devouring just looks like a copy of ring of blood and rage.</blockquote>That's because those items are all copies of raid dropped items. PVP players were complaining about raiders on their server owning in pvp because of the loot available. So SOE instead of saying, "uh, they worked for it," caved and gave them those items on the pvp merchants to make it fair. Chaos rift earring, signet of devouring, and many others are just the raid gear with a different name. Either one of two things needs to happen to make this situation fair. 1. Remove the items from pvp merchants and make them back raid like pve.2. Add them to BG merchants and make pve players kill for the items like the pvp servers do.As it stands, pvp has 2 ways to obtain these items, pve has 1. And trust me, it is a LOT easier to get kill writs completed than to get 4 competent groups of 80-89 to go raid old zones for loot for BGs.</blockquote>4 competent groups? At most you need a group or two to go finish those zones.</blockquote>People on PVE only want to run it as flawless. To get flawless on Gynok you are required to have at least 5 or 6 healers to cure all the curses to assure everyone lives. You going to do the whole zone with 2 groups 6 players of which are healers?</blockquote>Does not have to be flawless for the item. If you are going there for flawless u are going there for that. That is in no way connected to the issue discussed before.</blockquote>Send me a screen shot of you finding 12 people to run that zone and kill gynok without paying them. Then tell me how long it took you to form and how long it took you to run the zone. I have tried forming these up before but the only people interested in back raiding zones want something. I would like to remind you that out of those 12 people, probably 5 to 6 are going for that ring which means you have a 15% chance to get it IF IT DROPS. Which could mean if pickups are done to accomplish this, you could raid for months before seeing that ring on your level 80 BG character. It would take me half a week to obtain enough pvp tokens to buy the ring.

10-02-2010, 06:13 PM

just what we needed, another one of these threads.TBH, untill Issues that effect pvp servers only (like stonewill procs) are getting fixed with the prioriety they should have, i have no sympathy for PVE players who want access to the PVP-only gear, one thing we do have that works

balitiiger

10-02-2010, 06:14 PM

Screenshot of what timestamped tells from everyone saying they would come till we in the zone killing stuff?.Also you are saying it would take months. Have you been trying since those things have been on the merchant a bit before the end fo TSO at which point they were 1000 tokens. The cost of them was changed roughly about same time as BG hit live. Which was near 9 months ago now. And yes I expect there to be enough people who you wouldnt have to pay to run the zone. Also civilized people who you know so they will do the zone more than once so you wont have to worry about person getting the item and then just saying later. Meaning that would have a chance of happening over and over again.If you get those group of people together I am sure they would be willing to stick it out a few times till you guys got your rings.

balitiiger

10-02-2010, 06:15 PM

<cite>Osik@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>just what we needed, another one of these threads.TBH, untill Issues that effect pvp servers only (like stonewill procs) are getting fixed with the prioriety they should have, i have no sympathy for PVE players who want access to the PVP-only gear, one thing we do have that works</blockquote>+1

Wigg

10-02-2010, 06:49 PM

<cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Osik@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>just what we needed, another one of these threads.TBH, untill Issues that effect pvp servers only (like stonewill procs) are getting fixed with the prioriety they should have, i have no sympathy for PVE players who want access to the PVP-only gear, one thing we do have that works</blockquote>+1</blockquote>Yes, god forbid that pvp servers have it rough this expansion when for the last 2 or 3 it was trivialized by pvp items. Yes stonewill items should get fixed on pvp, but saying, "OMG, something is broken here, so we shouldn't fix BGs being balanced," is ridiculous. In your defense, getting that proc fixed shouldn't be too hard, but people would do things to get around it. Ex. You could make it where if a player hits you it procs the 50% and if an NPC hits you it procs the 100%. But, a smart pvper would agro several NPCs to make sure his stonewill proced for the full amount. These are the problems they are facing when fixing these items.Now, AGAIN, back to the topic of cross server BG matches pre-90 not being fair due to the availability of items on the merchants.

Wigg

10-02-2010, 06:59 PM

<cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote>Screenshot of what timestamped tells from everyone saying they would come till we in the zone killing stuff?.Also you are saying it would take months. Have you been trying since those things have been on the merchant a bit before the end fo TSO at which point they were 1000 tokens. The cost of them was changed roughly about same time as BG hit live. Which was near 9 months ago now. And yes I expect there to be enough people who you wouldnt have to pay to run the zone. Also civilized people who you know so they will do the zone more than once so you wont have to worry about person getting the item and then just saying later. Meaning that would have a chance of happening over and over again.If you get those group of people together I am sure they would be willing to stick it out a few times till you guys got your rings.</blockquote>So what you are saying is, they made it easier for you to obtain and still didn't give it to pve players? Definitely helping your case. As for the bolded section, My 80s toons are my 5th, 6th, and 7th alts. Making sure that I get that item on toons that are staying in the 80s is the LEAST of anyone's worries cept my own. On a pvp server you can kill people to get the equivalent. Why shouldn't we be able to do the same? Also, you still missed the part where getting 100 tokens takes you half a week and if you don't get it on the first try (and it doesn't even drop every time) it still takes half a week to get back in the zone and it's a toss up if it will even drop that time. And when it does finally drop, who's to say you are the one to win it? I'm not spending 2 months of back raiding to obtain an item that takes you half a week to get on your own just because you are on a different server.

10-02-2010, 09:43 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>balitiiger wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Osik@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>just what we needed, another one of these threads.TBH, untill Issues that effect pvp servers only (like stonewill procs) are getting fixed with the prioriety they should have, i have no sympathy for PVE players who want access to the PVP-only gear, one thing we do have that works</blockquote>+1</blockquote>Yes, god forbid that pvp servers have it rough this expansion when for the last 2 or 3 it was trivialized by pvp items. Last 3 xpacs being trivialized by pvp gear? ya right. pvp gear only had a significant effect in the last couple of months of tso, when the crit mit gear was put in the game.Yes stonewill items should get fixed on pvp, but saying, "OMG, something is broken here, so we shouldn't fix BGs being balanced," is ridiculous. In your defense, getting that proc fixed shouldn't be too hard, but people would do things to get around it. They have stated that they realise stonewill procs are bugged and only giving the pvp amounts, but have pretty much said they "dont want to" fix it.Ex. You could make it where if a player hits you it procs the 50% and if an NPC hits you it procs the 100%. But, a smart pvper would agro several NPCs to make sure his stonewill proced for the full amount. These are the problems they are facing when fixing these items.Or, they could just fix the proc... worked fine the first couple months of the xpac, and it still should.Now, AGAIN, back to the topic of cross server BG matches pre-90 not being fair due to the availability of items on the merchants. Pretty sure theres a 29 page thread in the BG section about this... </blockquote>

Tigress

10-02-2010, 11:09 PM

maybe i'm mistaken; however, when comparing the mage ring & robe, shouldn't they both be at 100% effectiveness? don't the stats decrease when they are worn? is it a fair comparision with one at 100% and the other at 90%?

Xalmat

10-02-2010, 11:14 PM

A lot of the level 80 Open PvP armor/jewelry is virtually identical to TSO raid armor/jewelry.

Wigg

10-03-2010, 02:11 AM

<cite>Tigress wrote:</cite><blockquote>maybe i'm mistaken; however, when comparing the mage ring & robe, shouldn't they both be at 100% effectiveness? don't the stats decrease when they are worn? is it a fair comparision with one at 100% and the other at 90%?</blockquote>Item condition only affects the item at 0%.

BlueEternal

10-03-2010, 02:32 AM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Send me a screen shot of you finding 12 people to run that zone and kill gynok without paying them</blockquote>There are guilds for a reason. Surely a officer such as yourself could organize a time for TSO raids?

Wigg

10-03-2010, 04:47 AM

<cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Send me a screen shot of you finding 12 people to run that zone and kill gynok without paying them</blockquote>There are guilds for a reason. Surely a officer such as yourself could organize a time for TSO raids?</blockquote>So i'm supposed to take my guild out of current progression to back raid old zones for lvl 80 BGs??? I wouldn't have a very successful guild if I did that as many would quit. I would much rather spend my time raiding current expansion zones and attempting to progress than have to back raid just because people's feelings are hurt that their gear will no longer give them an advantage in BGs...

Notsovilepriest

10-03-2010, 05:05 AM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Send me a screen shot of you finding 12 people to run that zone and kill gynok without paying them</blockquote>There are guilds for a reason. Surely a officer such as yourself could organize a time for TSO raids?</blockquote>So i'm supposed to take my guild out of current progression to back raid old zones for lvl 80 BGs??? I wouldn't have a very successful guild if I did that as many would quit. I would much rather spend my time raiding current expansion zones and attempting to progress than have to back raid just because people's feelings are hurt that their gear will no longer give them an advantage in BGs...</blockquote>There are off days that you can throw together a 20-30 min ToMC raid if you really want the item, I bet people would go since they would want stuff for their alts and just state mains before alts. Do what PvP people did for a long time, put in the effort to get the effects or gear you want.

Wigg

10-03-2010, 02:16 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Send me a screen shot of you finding 12 people to run that zone and kill gynok without paying them</blockquote>There are guilds for a reason. Surely a officer such as yourself could organize a time for TSO raids?</blockquote>So i'm supposed to take my guild out of current progression to back raid old zones for lvl 80 BGs??? I wouldn't have a very successful guild if I did that as many would quit. I would much rather spend my time raiding current expansion zones and attempting to progress than have to back raid just because people's feelings are hurt that their gear will no longer give them an advantage in BGs...</blockquote>There are off days that you can throw together a 20-30 min ToMC raid if you really want the item, I bet people would go since they would want stuff for their alts and just state mains before alts. Do what PvP people did for a long time, put in the effort to get the effects or gear you want.</blockquote>You make it sound like raid gear was just handed to people before this expansion. We worked for it then and still work for it now. You have been given a shortcut to get the same gear that took 1000 tokens last expansion and now takes 100 this expansion. You still think it's fair that we have to go through the process of raiding an old zone WEEKLY and still may not obtain the item for months when you can get it in 2 or 3 days? You are right, thats the plan we should take and just deal with it...

joseph

10-03-2010, 02:21 PM

Cool i love the new battleground items . the fact theat they are renamed old tso raid items is awsome gives people a chance who never got to those zones have some fun with them . and in battle grounds wich is more popular than rading old tso zones anyway. noone really raids those old zones anyway so who cares.love it keepit up soe

Notsovilepriest

10-03-2010, 02:36 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Send me a screen shot of you finding 12 people to run that zone and kill gynok without paying them</blockquote>There are guilds for a reason. Surely a officer such as yourself could organize a time for TSO raids?</blockquote>So i'm supposed to take my guild out of current progression to back raid old zones for lvl 80 BGs??? I wouldn't have a very successful guild if I did that as many would quit. I would much rather spend my time raiding current expansion zones and attempting to progress than have to back raid just because people's feelings are hurt that their gear will no longer give them an advantage in BGs...</blockquote>There are off days that you can throw together a 20-30 min ToMC raid if you really want the item, I bet people would go since they would want stuff for their alts and just state mains before alts. Do what PvP people did for a long time, put in the effort to get the effects or gear you want.</blockquote>You make it sound like raid gear was just handed to people before this expansion. We worked for it then and still work for it now. You have been given a shortcut to get the same gear that took 1000 tokens last expansion and now takes 100 this expansion. You still think it's fair that we have to go through the process of raiding an old zone WEEKLY and still may not obtain the item for months when you can get it in 2 or 3 days? You are right, thats the plan we should take and just deal with it... </blockquote>The item in question wasn't even realised till the end of the expansion anyways for a lot of tokens. You know what I do?! I raid to get good gear to help when I PvP and raid for the fun of it. Guess what the top guild last expansion on my server did? They raided just like you to gear up since they couldn't get PvP gear! You guys don't have it bad, there is an item out there you want the effect, get it, or shut up about it, it's there.

Wigg

10-03-2010, 08:42 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Send me a screen shot of you finding 12 people to run that zone and kill gynok without paying them</blockquote>There are guilds for a reason. Surely a officer such as yourself could organize a time for TSO raids?</blockquote>So i'm supposed to take my guild out of current progression to back raid old zones for lvl 80 BGs??? I wouldn't have a very successful guild if I did that as many would quit. I would much rather spend my time raiding current expansion zones and attempting to progress than have to back raid just because people's feelings are hurt that their gear will no longer give them an advantage in BGs...</blockquote>There are off days that you can throw together a 20-30 min ToMC raid if you really want the item, I bet people would go since they would want stuff for their alts and just state mains before alts. Do what PvP people did for a long time, put in the effort to get the effects or gear you want.</blockquote>You make it sound like raid gear was just handed to people before this expansion. We worked for it then and still work for it now. You have been given a shortcut to get the same gear that took 1000 tokens last expansion and now takes 100 this expansion. You still think it's fair that we have to go through the process of raiding an old zone WEEKLY and still may not obtain the item for months when you can get it in 2 or 3 days? You are right, thats the plan we should take and just deal with it... </blockquote>The item in question wasn't even realised till the end of the expansion anyways for a lot of tokens. You know what I do?! I raid to get good gear to help when I PvP and raid for the fun of it. Guess what the top guild last expansion on my server did? They raided just like you to gear up since they couldn't get PvP gear! You guys don't have it bad, there is an item out there you want the effect, get it, or shut up about it, it's there.</blockquote>Yes and if there was an item I wanted on my mains for THIS expansion, I would raid to get it. T3 pants? T3 shoulders? I raid to get those and I don't complain. Having to BACK raid a previous expansion because you don't want it to go on the merchants because you already have it is ridiculous. I have this item on two of my characters already and don't think I should have to put forward 10x the effort to get it than another person just because they are on a different server.

Wigg

10-03-2010, 08:43 PM

<cite>joseph wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cool i love the new battleground items . the fact theat they are renamed old tso raid items is awsome gives people a chance who never got to those zones have some fun with them . and in battle grounds wich is more popular than rading old tso zones anyway. noone really raids those old zones anyway so who cares.love it keepit up soe</blockquote>Those aren't the new BG items joseph. That's the old pvp items that other servers do not have access to. These are items people Vox and Naggy say shouldn't be available to pve servers.

Notsovilepriest

10-04-2010, 01:01 AM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Send me a screen shot of you finding 12 people to run that zone and kill gynok without paying them</blockquote>There are guilds for a reason. Surely a officer such as yourself could organize a time for TSO raids?</blockquote>So i'm supposed to take my guild out of current progression to back raid old zones for lvl 80 BGs??? I wouldn't have a very successful guild if I did that as many would quit. I would much rather spend my time raiding current expansion zones and attempting to progress than have to back raid just because people's feelings are hurt that their gear will no longer give them an advantage in BGs...</blockquote>There are off days that you can throw together a 20-30 min ToMC raid if you really want the item, I bet people would go since they would want stuff for their alts and just state mains before alts. Do what PvP people did for a long time, put in the effort to get the effects or gear you want.</blockquote>You make it sound like raid gear was just handed to people before this expansion. We worked for it then and still work for it now. You have been given a shortcut to get the same gear that took 1000 tokens last expansion and now takes 100 this expansion. You still think it's fair that we have to go through the process of raiding an old zone WEEKLY and still may not obtain the item for months when you can get it in 2 or 3 days? You are right, thats the plan we should take and just deal with it... </blockquote>The item in question wasn't even realised till the end of the expansion anyways for a lot of tokens. You know what I do?! I raid to get good gear to help when I PvP and raid for the fun of it. Guess what the top guild last expansion on my server did? They raided just like you to gear up since they couldn't get PvP gear! You guys don't have it bad, there is an item out there you want the effect, get it, or shut up about it, it's there.</blockquote>Yes and if there was an item I wanted on my mains for THIS expansion, I would raid to get it. T3 pants? T3 shoulders? I raid to get those and I don't complain. Having to BACK raid a previous expansion because you don't want it to go on the merchants because you already have it is ridiculous. I have this item on two of my characters already and don't think I should have to put forward 10x the effort to get it than another person just because they are on a different server. </blockquote>It takes you the same amount of effort, Just click Nafafen on Character Creation, same thing I do!

BlueEternal

10-04-2010, 01:38 AM

These are pvp server specific items. Deal with it. You want the item? Raid for it or roll a toon on Nagafen. End of story.

ThadeusOfShibboleth

10-04-2010, 03:18 AM

Good luck raiding for a robe identical to Robe of the Netherrealm on a PvE server...because it does not exist. Hence we have the problem this entire discussion is about. The scales are tipped to the PvP servers on every single tier below T9 because of this. I don't care about your "roll on Naggy" b.s. We are talking about battlegrounds, where PvE and PvP player should be on an EVEN playing field. TBH... there is only one reason I can think of why Nagafen players are so opposed to this balance. You are scared of getting your foot shoved in your trash talking mouths by a bunch of "bluebies".

Faeward

10-04-2010, 04:33 AM

All too often I see people wanting gear from PvP, but they don't want to PvP to get it.Next update: Get PvP gear without PvP'ing!Just kidding.Update: Just so you guys know; I am not opposed to any changes and don't actually care too much about what gear people get or how they get that gear.

crazyeyes321

10-04-2010, 09:07 AM

Its probably only a matter of time before SOE implements warfields on pve servers. I can see them making it where you talk to an npc and your randomly assigned a team. This of course would likely be the final nail.

Laenai

10-04-2010, 09:51 AM

Sometimes I think pure blue server players don't actually have any idea how much work you have to put in to get PvP gear. Its not just tokens, chilluns.And, yes, putting a few people together with a combined IQ high enough to raid through ToMC is about on par for the mountains and mountains of status and tokens required to buy this stuff from the PvP merchants.The "I don't want to take them out of current progression" excuse is weak. If you're really that amazing, ToMC will take your crew 15 minutes and they'll get to take something shiny home for lower level alts. OH NO! A WHOLE 15 MINUTES! That's laziness.The gear is there. Utilize your time, make the effort, and get it. Don't cry because you might HAVE to put forth some time and effort and you would rather just stomp your feet and sulk.

Wigg

10-05-2010, 01:07 AM

<cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes I think pure blue server players don't actually have any idea how much work you have to put in to get PvP gear. Its not just tokens, chilluns.And, yes, putting a few people together with a combined IQ high enough to raid through ToMC is about on par for the mountains and mountains of status and tokens required to buy this stuff from the PvP merchants.The "I don't want to take them out of current progression" excuse is weak. If you're really that amazing, ToMC will take your crew 15 minutes and they'll get to take something shiny home for lower level alts. OH NO! A WHOLE 15 MINUTES! That's laziness.The gear is there. Utilize your time, make the effort, and get it. Don't cry because you might HAVE to put forth some time and effort and you would rather just stomp your feet and sulk.</blockquote>Mountains of tokens?? my level 32 ranger on your server has 117 tokens and a full set of BG gear. You know how long it took me to get all that? 2 weeks. In 2 weeks at level 32 I was able to COMPLETELY gear my character. You talk as if PVP has to "work" for gear. If I was able to get a full T3 set in 2 weeks no one would ever raid past 2 months of the expansion.Now for your "the gear is out there," no it isn't. We do not have access to ANY chest piece pre-90 with herioc resistance X on it.

Zangetsu

10-05-2010, 01:24 AM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes I think pure blue server players don't actually have any idea how much work you have to put in to get PvP gear. Its not just tokens, chilluns.And, yes, putting a few people together with a combined IQ high enough to raid through ToMC is about on par for the mountains and mountains of status and tokens required to buy this stuff from the PvP merchants.The "I don't want to take them out of current progression" excuse is weak. If you're really that amazing, ToMC will take your crew 15 minutes and they'll get to take something shiny home for lower level alts. OH NO! A WHOLE 15 MINUTES! That's laziness.The gear is there. Utilize your time, make the effort, and get it. Don't cry because you might HAVE to put forth some time and effort and you would rather just stomp your feet and sulk.</blockquote>Mountains of tokens?? my level 32 ranger on your server has 117 tokens and a full set of BG gear. You know how long it took me to get all that? 2 weeks. In 2 weeks at level 32 I was able to COMPLETELY gear my character. You talk as if PVP has to "work" for gear. If I was able to get a full T3 set in 2 weeks no one would ever raid past 2 months of the expansion.Now for your "the gear is out there," no it isn't. We do not have access to ANY chest piece with herioc resistance X on it.</blockquote>Your example of a Level 32 Ranger is ridiculous, in case you haven't noticed it takes more tokens the higher level you are. The average pvper on Naggy at Level 80 trying to get that ring or chest peice it would take 4-6 days. You run into a raid zone, 1 hour, done. And theres a reason we have PvP Items, BECAUSE IT'S A PVP SERVER. We have many different challenges that you don't which require that gear all the time not just when you feel like doing a battleground. You want PvP Gear avaliable on PvE servers? Sure just go ahead and make Good and Evil sides unable to interact so it cuts all your raiding forces in half, and make it so whenever your roaming around you can get ganked by 6 people your level or higher without any prior indication.

Wigg

10-05-2010, 01:42 AM

<cite>Zangetsu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes I think pure blue server players don't actually have any idea how much work you have to put in to get PvP gear. Its not just tokens, chilluns.And, yes, putting a few people together with a combined IQ high enough to raid through ToMC is about on par for the mountains and mountains of status and tokens required to buy this stuff from the PvP merchants.The "I don't want to take them out of current progression" excuse is weak. If you're really that amazing, ToMC will take your crew 15 minutes and they'll get to take something shiny home for lower level alts. OH NO! A WHOLE 15 MINUTES! That's laziness.The gear is there. Utilize your time, make the effort, and get it. Don't cry because you might HAVE to put forth some time and effort and you would rather just stomp your feet and sulk.</blockquote>Mountains of tokens?? my level 32 ranger on your server has 117 tokens and a full set of BG gear. You know how long it took me to get all that? 2 weeks. In 2 weeks at level 32 I was able to COMPLETELY gear my character. You talk as if PVP has to "work" for gear. If I was able to get a full T3 set in 2 weeks no one would ever raid past 2 months of the expansion.Now for your "the gear is out there," no it isn't. We do not have access to ANY chest piece with herioc resistance X on it.</blockquote>Your example of a Level 32 Ranger is ridiculous, in case you haven't noticed it takes more tokens the higher level you are. The average pvper on Naggy at Level 80 trying to get that ring or chest peice it would take 4-6 days. You run into a raid zone, 1 hour, done. And theres a reason we have PvP Items, BECAUSE IT'S A PVP SERVER. We have many different challenges that you don't which require that gear all the time not just when you feel like doing a battleground. You want PvP Gear avaliable on PvE servers? Sure just go ahead and make Good and Evil sides unable to interact so it cuts all your raiding forces in half, and make it so whenever your roaming around you can get ganked by 6 people your level or higher without any prior indication.</blockquote>PVP servers were made to pvp, not to have gimics on gear. Now, STILL with the issue the pvp items are better than BG pre-90. Fix them or disallow the pvp items in BGs. 117 tokens + the 150sh I am wearing in gear means I made enough to buy that chest, ring, and more. AGAIN you say "1 hour of raiding." Let me explain something to you, RAIDING /= buying items off a merchant. You have about a 10% chance for that ring to drop, then about a 15-20% chance of winning it on a random. That being said, you have about a 1 in 15 or 20 chance of getting the ring. Now, take account that the lockout on the zone is ~3 days and you would have to raid that every hour it was open and could still take you 2 months of systematically raiding an old tier zone for something that takes you 3 days of afk in warfields...

Zangetsu

10-05-2010, 01:53 AM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zangetsu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes I think pure blue server players don't actually have any idea how much work you have to put in to get PvP gear. Its not just tokens, chilluns.And, yes, putting a few people together with a combined IQ high enough to raid through ToMC is about on par for the mountains and mountains of status and tokens required to buy this stuff from the PvP merchants.The "I don't want to take them out of current progression" excuse is weak. If you're really that amazing, ToMC will take your crew 15 minutes and they'll get to take something shiny home for lower level alts. OH NO! A WHOLE 15 MINUTES! That's laziness.The gear is there. Utilize your time, make the effort, and get it. Don't cry because you might HAVE to put forth some time and effort and you would rather just stomp your feet and sulk.</blockquote>Mountains of tokens?? my level 32 ranger on your server has 117 tokens and a full set of BG gear. You know how long it took me to get all that? 2 weeks. In 2 weeks at level 32 I was able to COMPLETELY gear my character. You talk as if PVP has to "work" for gear. If I was able to get a full T3 set in 2 weeks no one would ever raid past 2 months of the expansion.Now for your "the gear is out there," no it isn't. We do not have access to ANY chest piece with herioc resistance X on it.</blockquote>Your example of a Level 32 Ranger is ridiculous, in case you haven't noticed it takes more tokens the higher level you are. The average pvper on Naggy at Level 80 trying to get that ring or chest peice it would take 4-6 days. You run into a raid zone, 1 hour, done. And theres a reason we have PvP Items, BECAUSE IT'S A PVP SERVER. We have many different challenges that you don't which require that gear all the time not just when you feel like doing a battleground. You want PvP Gear avaliable on PvE servers? Sure just go ahead and make Good and Evil sides unable to interact so it cuts all your raiding forces in half, and make it so whenever your roaming around you can get ganked by 6 people your level or higher without any prior indication.</blockquote>PVP servers were made to pvp, not to have gimics on gear. Now, STILL with the issue the pvp items are better than BG pre-90. Fix them or disallow the pvp items in BGs. 117 tokens + the 150sh I am wearing in gear means I made enough to buy that chest, ring, and more. AGAIN you say "1 hour of raiding." Let me explain something to you, RAIDING /= buying items off a merchant. You have about a 10% chance for that ring to drop, then about a 15-20% chance of winning it on a random. That being said, you have about a 1 in 15 or 20 chance of getting the ring. Now, take account that the lockout on the zone is ~3 days and you would have to raid that every hour it was open and could still take you 2 months of systematically raiding an old tier zone for something that takes you 3 days of afk in warfields...</blockquote>1. Theyre makeing it no Immunity in warfields so you cannot do that.2. You only need that gear when you FEEL like doing a battleground, people on PvP servers need it whenever they leave their towns.3. Actually you have enough to buy Chest/Ring nothing else, that took you 2 weeks.4. Yes 1 hour of raiding because thats all the effort you put into it. So 1 in 15/20 times you get the ring. 20 Hours of effort, and yes I am aware that you cant do raid zones back to back like that.5. If somebody on a PvP Server wanted to do that raid and get that exact item it would take the same amount of effort doing the raid zone, however Evil and Good are split. That cuts the amount of people you'll find willing to do the raid by half, and it's doubtful you'll even find enough people willing because they'll be out pvping.6. I agree PvP only items should be disabled in battlegrounds, but not that PvE servers should have access to PvP-only items.

Wigg

10-05-2010, 02:39 AM

<cite>Zangetsu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zangetsu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes I think pure blue server players don't actually have any idea how much work you have to put in to get PvP gear. Its not just tokens, chilluns.And, yes, putting a few people together with a combined IQ high enough to raid through ToMC is about on par for the mountains and mountains of status and tokens required to buy this stuff from the PvP merchants.The "I don't want to take them out of current progression" excuse is weak. If you're really that amazing, ToMC will take your crew 15 minutes and they'll get to take something shiny home for lower level alts. OH NO! A WHOLE 15 MINUTES! That's laziness.The gear is there. Utilize your time, make the effort, and get it. Don't cry because you might HAVE to put forth some time and effort and you would rather just stomp your feet and sulk.</blockquote>Mountains of tokens?? my level 32 ranger on your server has 117 tokens and a full set of BG gear. You know how long it took me to get all that? 2 weeks. In 2 weeks at level 32 I was able to COMPLETELY gear my character. You talk as if PVP has to "work" for gear. If I was able to get a full T3 set in 2 weeks no one would ever raid past 2 months of the expansion.Now for your "the gear is out there," no it isn't. We do not have access to ANY chest piece with herioc resistance X on it.</blockquote>Your example of a Level 32 Ranger is ridiculous, in case you haven't noticed it takes more tokens the higher level you are. The average pvper on Naggy at Level 80 trying to get that ring or chest peice it would take 4-6 days. You run into a raid zone, 1 hour, done. And theres a reason we have PvP Items, BECAUSE IT'S A PVP SERVER. We have many different challenges that you don't which require that gear all the time not just when you feel like doing a battleground. You want PvP Gear avaliable on PvE servers? Sure just go ahead and make Good and Evil sides unable to interact so it cuts all your raiding forces in half, and make it so whenever your roaming around you can get ganked by 6 people your level or higher without any prior indication.</blockquote>PVP servers were made to pvp, not to have gimics on gear. Now, STILL with the issue the pvp items are better than BG pre-90. Fix them or disallow the pvp items in BGs. 117 tokens + the 150sh I am wearing in gear means I made enough to buy that chest, ring, and more. AGAIN you say "1 hour of raiding." Let me explain something to you, RAIDING /= buying items off a merchant. You have about a 10% chance for that ring to drop, then about a 15-20% chance of winning it on a random. That being said, you have about a 1 in 15 or 20 chance of getting the ring. Now, take account that the lockout on the zone is ~3 days and you would have to raid that every hour it was open and could still take you 2 months of systematically raiding an old tier zone for something that takes you 3 days of afk in warfields...</blockquote>1. Theyre makeing it no Immunity in warfields so you cannot do that.2. You only need that gear when you FEEL like doing a battleground, people on PvP servers need it whenever they leave their towns.3. Actually you have enough to buy Chest/Ring nothing else, that took you 2 weeks.4. Yes 1 hour of raiding because thats all the effort you put into it. So 1 in 15/20 times you get the ring. 20 Hours of effort, and yes I am aware that you cant do raid zones back to back like that.5. If somebody on a PvP Server wanted to do that raid and get that exact item it would take the same amount of effort doing the raid zone, however Evil and Good are split. That cuts the amount of people you'll find willing to do the raid by half, and it's doubtful you'll even find enough people willing because they'll be out pvping.6. I agree PvP only items should be disabled in battlegrounds, but not that PvE servers should have access to PvP-only items.</blockquote>on your number 5. Nagafen is 3x larger than 90% of the bluebie servers and therefore has a LARGER population on each side than most servers.275 tokens is enough to buy chest, ring, and almost another T8 item. And that was 2 weeks messing WHILE leveling. 2. You only need that gear when you FEEL like doing a battleground, people on PvP servers need it whenever they leave their towns.Ever since the release of instance zones and guild hall flags, the above is no longer true. It is almost impossible to find people randomly leveling in zones to pvp them. If your excuse is it's harder to level, that has nothing to do with gear and actually is easier since the compensation of exp potions for being on a pvp server. All in all, from what I have read from almost every naggy player is, " I don't want you to have the gear because it's mine." If I am wrong, please give a logical reason why those should not be available on pve servers for BG kills.

Zangetsu

10-05-2010, 03:49 AM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zangetsu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zangetsu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sometimes I think pure blue server players don't actually have any idea how much work you have to put in to get PvP gear. Its not just tokens, chilluns.And, yes, putting a few people together with a combined IQ high enough to raid through ToMC is about on par for the mountains and mountains of status and tokens required to buy this stuff from the PvP merchants.The "I don't want to take them out of current progression" excuse is weak. If you're really that amazing, ToMC will take your crew 15 minutes and they'll get to take something shiny home for lower level alts. OH NO! A WHOLE 15 MINUTES! That's laziness.The gear is there. Utilize your time, make the effort, and get it. Don't cry because you might HAVE to put forth some time and effort and you would rather just stomp your feet and sulk.</blockquote>Mountains of tokens?? my level 32 ranger on your server has 117 tokens and a full set of BG gear. You know how long it took me to get all that? 2 weeks. In 2 weeks at level 32 I was able to COMPLETELY gear my character. You talk as if PVP has to "work" for gear. If I was able to get a full T3 set in 2 weeks no one would ever raid past 2 months of the expansion.Now for your "the gear is out there," no it isn't. We do not have access to ANY chest piece with herioc resistance X on it.</blockquote>Your example of a Level 32 Ranger is ridiculous, in case you haven't noticed it takes more tokens the higher level you are. The average pvper on Naggy at Level 80 trying to get that ring or chest peice it would take 4-6 days. You run into a raid zone, 1 hour, done. And theres a reason we have PvP Items, BECAUSE IT'S A PVP SERVER. We have many different challenges that you don't which require that gear all the time not just when you feel like doing a battleground. You want PvP Gear avaliable on PvE servers? Sure just go ahead and make Good and Evil sides unable to interact so it cuts all your raiding forces in half, and make it so whenever your roaming around you can get ganked by 6 people your level or higher without any prior indication.</blockquote>PVP servers were made to pvp, not to have gimics on gear. Now, STILL with the issue the pvp items are better than BG pre-90. Fix them or disallow the pvp items in BGs. 117 tokens + the 150sh I am wearing in gear means I made enough to buy that chest, ring, and more. AGAIN you say "1 hour of raiding." Let me explain something to you, RAIDING /= buying items off a merchant. You have about a 10% chance for that ring to drop, then about a 15-20% chance of winning it on a random. That being said, you have about a 1 in 15 or 20 chance of getting the ring. Now, take account that the lockout on the zone is ~3 days and you would have to raid that every hour it was open and could still take you 2 months of systematically raiding an old tier zone for something that takes you 3 days of afk in warfields...</blockquote>1. Theyre makeing it no Immunity in warfields so you cannot do that.2. You only need that gear when you FEEL like doing a battleground, people on PvP servers need it whenever they leave their towns.3. Actually you have enough to buy Chest/Ring nothing else, that took you 2 weeks.4. Yes 1 hour of raiding because thats all the effort you put into it. So 1 in 15/20 times you get the ring. 20 Hours of effort, and yes I am aware that you cant do raid zones back to back like that.5. If somebody on a PvP Server wanted to do that raid and get that exact item it would take the same amount of effort doing the raid zone, however Evil and Good are split. That cuts the amount of people you'll find willing to do the raid by half, and it's doubtful you'll even find enough people willing because they'll be out pvping.6. I agree PvP only items should be disabled in battlegrounds, but not that PvE servers should have access to PvP-only items.</blockquote>on your number 5. Nagafen is 3x larger than 90% of the bluebie servers and therefore has a LARGER population on each side than most servers.275 tokens is enough to buy chest, ring, and almost another T8 item. And that was 2 weeks messing WHILE leveling. 2. You only need that gear when you FEEL like doing a battleground, people on PvP servers need it whenever they leave their towns.Ever since the release of instance zones and guild hall flags, the above is no longer true. It is almost impossible to find people randomly leveling in zones to pvp them. If your excuse is it's harder to level, that has nothing to do with gear and actually is easier since the compensation of exp potions for being on a pvp server. All in all, from what I have read from almost every naggy player is, " I don't want you to have the gear because it's mine." If I am wrong, please give a logical reason why those should not be available on pve servers for BG kills.</blockquote>Sure make PvP gear avaliable on PvE servers, just restrict it to only useable in BG.Or just make PvP gear unuseable as a whole in BG.Either way works, and Wigg I don't play on Nagafen or Vox by the way. I play on Test / Test Copy / Befallen.My argument was that aside from BG you have no NEED of that gear and people who play PvP servers do, but if you want the gear purely for BG then make it only equipable in the BG. Make it cost the same ammount in BG tokens and status as it does in Discord Tokens and status, so if your willing to shell out 1500 BG Tokens and 18 Mil status or so for a whole set of 80 PvP Gear you can only use in Battlegrounds, feel free to.

Wigg

10-05-2010, 11:25 AM

<cite>Zangetsu wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>on your number 5. Nagafen is 3x larger than 90% of the bluebie servers and therefore has a LARGER population on each side than most servers.275 tokens is enough to buy chest, ring, and almost another T8 item. And that was 2 weeks messing WHILE leveling. 2. You only need that gear when you FEEL like doing a battleground, people on PvP servers need it whenever they leave their towns.Ever since the release of instance zones and guild hall flags, the above is no longer true. It is almost impossible to find people randomly leveling in zones to pvp them. If your excuse is it's harder to level, that has nothing to do with gear and actually is easier since the compensation of exp potions for being on a pvp server. All in all, from what I have read from almost every naggy player is, " I don't want you to have the gear because it's mine." If I am wrong, please give a logical reason why those should not be available on pve servers for BG kills.</blockquote>Sure make PvP gear avaliable on PvE servers, just restrict it to only useable in BG.Or just make PvP gear unuseable as a whole in BG.Either way works, and Wigg I don't play on Nagafen or Vox by the way. I play on Test / Test Copy / Befallen.My argument was that aside from BG you have no NEED of that gear and people who play PvP servers do, but if you want the gear purely for BG then make it only equipable in the BG. Make it cost the same ammount in BG tokens and status as it does in Discord Tokens and status, so if your willing to shell out 1500 BG Tokens and 18 Mil status or so for a whole set of 80 PvP Gear you can only use in Battlegrounds, feel free to.</blockquote>So while all other BG items can be used in pve you feel certain ones shouldn't? I am confused by your "cost" because since you do not play on pvp server, you don't seem to realize that on a pvp server you get 5 tokens per writ and 5 per warfield. So to compare those and say that you should pay the same amount of tokens (BG and Discord) for the armor is insane. Also, they get status for kills and for completing writs. Now, give us status for BGs and the 5 tokens for a win and I would be more than happy to pay 1500 BG tokens and 18 million status. These items we are discussion are a full TIER old. Not just an expansion, but an entire tier. People in the 90s shouldn't be using anything they can get for this level range to pve at all unless they have no idea what they are doing. So the items we are talking about will not cause pve imbalance and should not affect any gameplay except the "Gods" of T8 pvp will start getting it handed to them by pve players.

Rahatmattata

10-05-2010, 01:09 PM

If PvE servers don't have access to the same items PvP servers get in BGs, then the obvious solution that is fair for both ruleset servers is to give vox and nagafen their own BG server and exclude them from PvE BGs.

Notsovilepriest

10-05-2010, 03:36 PM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>If PvE servers don't have access to the same items PvP servers get in BGs, then the obvious solution that is fair for both ruleset servers is to give vox and nagafen their own BG server and exclude them from PvE BGs.</blockquote>Give me fair and even access to previous teir Avatar gear PvE servers got! Both server types have advantages.

Wigg

10-05-2010, 06:25 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>If PvE servers don't have access to the same items PvP servers get in BGs, then the obvious solution that is fair for both ruleset servers is to give vox and nagafen their own BG server and exclude them from PvE BGs.</blockquote>Give me fair and even access to previous teir Avatar gear PvE servers got! Both server types have advantages.</blockquote>Really? How so? Did you not have avatars? You HAD the chance to obtain the gear, just as PVE players had the chance to obtain it. Don't give me the crap about well we had to fight people while fighting avatars. We have guilds with call list that would pull it with 1 group and hold it till the raid got there. We have no way of obtaining that gear the pvp gear. And AGIAN, this gear is a full tier old.What advantages since they were on both servers? Have you seen any people from the pve server that still have a character in the 80s using avatar gear? How many people from naggy/vox do you see using the chest with Herioc resistance X on it? How many mages use the Ring? How many have 2 or 4 piece sets? How many tanks use the power proc ring? Exactly...

ThadeusOfShibboleth

10-05-2010, 09:19 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>If PvE servers don't have access to the same items PvP servers get in BGs, then the obvious solution that is fair for both ruleset servers is to give vox and nagafen their own BG server and exclude them from PvE BGs.</blockquote>Give me fair and even access to previous teir Avatar gear PvE servers got! Both server types have advantages.</blockquote>ROFL, you're kidding right? Oh, I forgot...it's the PvE servers fault you couldn't kill the Avatars! Wait...here it comes...MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE ROLLED ON A PVE SERVER SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PVP WHILE TRYING TO KILL AVATARS!!!How's that for a taste your own medicine?You had "access" to it, so that's a ret@rded comment all in itself. Who cares about the stupid gynok ring, it's available on both servers, one way or another. We are talking about gear that is not available on both rulesets in T9 and below, so stop derailing the thread. It's about LOWBIE ITEMS!

Notsovilepriest

10-05-2010, 11:40 PM

<cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>If PvE servers don't have access to the same items PvP servers get in BGs, then the obvious solution that is fair for both ruleset servers is to give vox and nagafen their own BG server and exclude them from PvE BGs.</blockquote>Give me fair and even access to previous teir Avatar gear PvE servers got! Both server types have advantages.</blockquote>ROFL, you're kidding right? Oh, I forgot...it's the PvE servers fault you couldn't kill the Avatars! Wait...here it comes...MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE ROLLED ON A PVE SERVER SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PVP WHILE TRYING TO KILL AVATARS!!!How's that for a taste your own medicine?You had "access" to it, so that's a ret@rded comment all in itself. Who cares about the stupid gynok ring, it's available on both servers, one way or another. We are talking about gear that is not available on both rulesets in T9 and below, so stop derailing the thread. It's about LOWBIE ITEMS!</blockquote>I didn't say it's PvE's fault we didn't kill as many as we could have. There was a full expansion where 1-2 avatars were killed period on Naggy because of poor mechanics which allowed 1-2 people to block a full raid. That being said, even if most don't have Avatar items from the past, you still had a huge advantage getting them over us. If you want everything to be fair and equal, I want that old stuff from Avatars on a vendor for PvP servers only that we can trade in tokens for it. Then you can have our gear.You have "Access" to the PvP gear you guys want, Unless you magically don't have Naggy on character creation screen. Until you don't have the luxury of "PvP" when you please, have the ability to just level an alt without dying 50 times, do that quest or festival you want without being griefed, I don't feel you should get our gear, It's a reward for our time lost while doing the things you take forgranted and getting destroyed for doing so.

Stylish

10-06-2010, 12:00 AM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>If PvE servers don't have access to the same items PvP servers get in BGs, then the obvious solution that is fair for both ruleset servers is to give vox and nagafen their own BG server and exclude them from PvE BGs.</blockquote>Give me fair and even access to previous teir Avatar gear PvE servers got! Both server types have advantages.</blockquote>ROFL, you're kidding right? Oh, I forgot...it's the PvE servers fault you couldn't kill the Avatars! Wait...here it comes...MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE ROLLED ON A PVE SERVER SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PVP WHILE TRYING TO KILL AVATARS!!!How's that for a taste your own medicine?You had "access" to it, so that's a ret@rded comment all in itself. Who cares about the stupid gynok ring, it's available on both servers, one way or another. We are talking about gear that is not available on both rulesets in T9 and below, so stop derailing the thread. It's about LOWBIE ITEMS!</blockquote>You have "Access" to the PvP gear you guys want, Unless you magically don't have Naggy on character creation screen. Until you don't have the luxury of "PvP" when you please, have the ability to just level an alt without dying 50 times, do that quest or festival you want without being griefed, I don't feel you should get our gear, It's a reward for our time lost while doing the things you take forgranted and getting destroyed for doing so.</blockquote>This. PvP armor is for a PvP server. Get over it or roll on Nagafen.

Wigg

10-06-2010, 01:50 AM

<cite>Stylish wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>If PvE servers don't have access to the same items PvP servers get in BGs, then the obvious solution that is fair for both ruleset servers is to give vox and nagafen their own BG server and exclude them from PvE BGs.</blockquote>Give me fair and even access to previous teir Avatar gear PvE servers got! Both server types have advantages.</blockquote>ROFL, you're kidding right? Oh, I forgot...it's the PvE servers fault you couldn't kill the Avatars! Wait...here it comes...MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE ROLLED ON A PVE SERVER SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PVP WHILE TRYING TO KILL AVATARS!!!How's that for a taste your own medicine?You had "access" to it, so that's a ret@rded comment all in itself. Who cares about the stupid gynok ring, it's available on both servers, one way or another. We are talking about gear that is not available on both rulesets in T9 and below, so stop derailing the thread. It's about LOWBIE ITEMS!</blockquote>You have "Access" to the PvP gear you guys want, Unless you magically don't have Naggy on character creation screen. Until you don't have the luxury of "PvP" when you please, have the ability to just level an alt without dying 50 times, do that quest or festival you want without being griefed, I don't feel you should get our gear, It's a reward for our time lost while doing the things you take forgranted and getting destroyed for doing so.</blockquote>This. PvP armor is for a PvP server. Get over it or roll on Nagafen.</blockquote>Then get your own BG server. BGs are about equality across all servers and I am beyond done argueing with people who are upset about losing their advantage. Either make the new gear for lower tiers blow pvp items out of the water or completely disable them in BGs. It is like arguing with a brick wall with one of you people. "PvP armor is for a PvP server. Get over it or roll on Nagafen." How about you you step off your "OMG I AM SO L33T" for about two seconds and look at it logically. Either they canA. Create new items that own yours (wont happen because to blow those away they would have out of tier stats)B. Completely disable those items in BGs.C. Place them on the merchantThese items are A FULL TIER OLD. Deal with the fact the gear is out dated and place it on the merchant like you already have it. Either that or place HR X and the stoneskin proc on the new items/ BG chest.

Stylish

10-06-2010, 10:25 AM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Stylish wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>If PvE servers don't have access to the same items PvP servers get in BGs, then the obvious solution that is fair for both ruleset servers is to give vox and nagafen their own BG server and exclude them from PvE BGs.</blockquote>Give me fair and even access to previous teir Avatar gear PvE servers got! Both server types have advantages.</blockquote>ROFL, you're kidding right? Oh, I forgot...it's the PvE servers fault you couldn't kill the Avatars! Wait...here it comes...MAYBE YOU SHOULD HAVE ROLLED ON A PVE SERVER SO YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO PVP WHILE TRYING TO KILL AVATARS!!!How's that for a taste your own medicine?You had "access" to it, so that's a ret@rded comment all in itself. Who cares about the stupid gynok ring, it's available on both servers, one way or another. We are talking about gear that is not available on both rulesets in T9 and below, so stop derailing the thread. It's about LOWBIE ITEMS!</blockquote>You have "Access" to the PvP gear you guys want, Unless you magically don't have Naggy on character creation screen. Until you don't have the luxury of "PvP" when you please, have the ability to just level an alt without dying 50 times, do that quest or festival you want without being griefed, I don't feel you should get our gear, It's a reward for our time lost while doing the things you take forgranted and getting destroyed for doing so.</blockquote>This. PvP armor is for a PvP server. Get over it or roll on Nagafen.</blockquote>Then get your own BG server. BGs are about equality across all servers and I am beyond done argueing with people who are upset about losing their advantage. Either make the new gear for lower tiers blow pvp items out of the water or completely disable them in BGs. It is like arguing with a brick wall with one of you people. "PvP armor is for a PvP server. Get over it or roll on Nagafen." How about you you step off your "OMG I AM SO L33T" for about two seconds and look at it logically. Either they canA. Create new items that own yours (wont happen because to blow those away they would have out of tier stats)B. Completely disable those items in BGs.C. Place them on the merchantThese items are A FULL TIER OLD. Deal with the fact the gear is out dated and place it on the merchant like you already have it. Either that or place HR X and the stoneskin proc on the new items/ BG chest.</blockquote>I'm not on a "OMG I AM SO L33T". I said roll on Nagafen because its A) the most populated PvP server and B) Because it is a PvP server. If you would rather roll a character on Vox be my guest. The bottom line that you do not want to hear is that PvP items belong on a PvP server.Why is that so difficult to understand? Roll a character on a PvP server if you want PvP items. Being on a PvE server means you don't PvP except when you choose to do so. If you absolutely love to PvP via BGs....then you would probably love Nagafen. However, if you like to choose when to have pre-made matches for PvP, then by all means stay on the PvE server, queue BGs, and deal with not having PvP server gear.

ThadeusOfShibboleth

10-06-2010, 11:57 AM

You PvP'rs have an excuse for every argument, it's pathetic.You want Avatar gear on a shard/token merchant...NEWS FLASH! SO DO WE! Grats on complaing about gear that <5% of the entire player base had a chance to even obtain!The topic of discussion here is again..about LOWBIE items...<ul><li>Battlegrounds needs to be balanced. This DOES mean PvE and PvP need access to EQUAL gear.</li></ul>Get over yourselves. You rolled PvP and we rolled PvE, which was never an issue until we were forced to compete against one another on the same battlefield. The only solutions are as a previous poster stated:<ol><li>Make the SAME IDENTICAL gear available to both ruleset servers or...</li><li>PvP ruleset players and PvE ruleset players do not share the battlegrounds.</li></ol>Now truth be told I don't see #2 as an option as it would most likely kill BG's with the amount of Naggy players I've seen in them.

Rahatmattata

10-06-2010, 11:58 AM

Basically it sounds like red servers are against blue servers having access to pvp gear, and they are also against not being allowed to pvp with blue servers. Funny. I would like the broken reflect 5 set bonus on my tier 4 character.

Xillean

10-06-2010, 12:23 PM

I’m from naggy (well venny but eh)) and no I don’t think you should be able to obtain our pvp gear. That being said nor do I think it’s fair for us pvpers to be able to use it in bgs, and by many people’s admission from the pvp servers BG is not PVP, if that’s true then there’s 0 reason we should be allowed to use pvp gear there.I know ill probably get flamed for saying that but eh, it’s true whether people want to admit it or not. I think the best way to solve this issue and I can see it’s been said many times before now, is to disable the pvp specific gear for bgs and leave it at that.Though I have a feeling to code it so it will still work properly in pvp but not in bgs is probably such a massive and time consuming undertaking that that is probably the reason it wasn’t done in the first place.And sure when bgs first came out I felt pretty godlike with my full set of tso armor that the bluebies didn’t have and I knew they couldn’t get, but never did I think I had earned some special privilege to have a clear unfair advantage over them in anyway, and for the record I’m talking about the tso ARMOR sets, not the jewelry.Some of our tso armors set bonuses make us rather op, especially the mage sets, that ward for a mere 2 set bonus is ubber.In the end since its probably a ton of work to try and edit the code to disable the pvp armor from tso from working in bgs but work in pvp ((since SOE fails horribly as is since our stonewill gear still is broke on pvp when doing pve stuff)) Id begrudgingly accept them adding new bg armor that is equal to our tso ones, even take off the crit mit but give them the set bonuses and heroic resistance.

Wigg

10-06-2010, 12:50 PM

<cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I’m from naggy (well venny but eh)) and no I don’t think you should be able to obtain our pvp gear. That being said nor do I think it’s fair for us pvpers to be able to use it in bgs, and by many people’s admission from the pvp servers BG is not PVP, if that’s true then there’s 0 reason we should be allowed to use pvp gear there.I know ill probably get flamed for saying that but eh, it’s true whether people want to admit it or not. I think the best way to solve this issue and I can see it’s been said many times before now, is to disable the pvp specific gear for bgs and leave it at that.Though I have a feeling to code it so it will still work properly in pvp but not in bgs is probably such a massive and time consuming undertaking that that is probably the reason it wasn’t done in the first place.And sure when bgs first came out I felt pretty godlike with my full set of tso armor that the bluebies didn’t have and I knew they couldn’t get, but never did I think I had earned some special privilege to have a clear unfair advantage over them in anyway, and for the record I’m talking about the tso ARMOR sets, not the jewelry.Some of our tso armors set bonuses make us rather op, especially the mage sets, that ward for a mere 2 set bonus is ubber.In the end since its probably a ton of work to try and edit the code to disable the pvp armor from tso from working in bgs but work in pvp ((since SOE fails horribly as is since our stonewill gear still is broke on pvp when doing pve stuff)) Id begrudgingly accept them adding new bg armor that is equal to our tso ones, even take off the crit mit but give them the set bonuses and heroic resistance.</blockquote>Thank you for that post Xaomen. You are one of 3 logical players I have seen from Naggy server. I do not see a problem with the jewelry being made available also, but that is another point to the argument. For now, I should hope a GM will see this and say, "omg, I guess we did give naggy/vox an advantage in 80 BGs..."

Notsovilepriest

10-06-2010, 03:57 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I’m from naggy (well venny but eh)) and no I don’t think you should be able to obtain our pvp gear. That being said nor do I think it’s fair for us pvpers to be able to use it in bgs, and by many people’s admission from the pvp servers BG is not PVP, if that’s true then there’s 0 reason we should be allowed to use pvp gear there.I know ill probably get flamed for saying that but eh, it’s true whether people want to admit it or not. I think the best way to solve this issue and I can see it’s been said many times before now, is to disable the pvp specific gear for bgs and leave it at that.Though I have a feeling to code it so it will still work properly in pvp but not in bgs is probably such a massive and time consuming undertaking that that is probably the reason it wasn’t done in the first place.And sure when bgs first came out I felt pretty godlike with my full set of tso armor that the bluebies didn’t have and I knew they couldn’t get, but never did I think I had earned some special privilege to have a clear unfair advantage over them in anyway, and for the record I’m talking about the tso ARMOR sets, not the jewelry.Some of our tso armors set bonuses make us rather op, especially the mage sets, that ward for a mere 2 set bonus is ubber.In the end since its probably a ton of work to try and edit the code to disable the pvp armor from tso from working in bgs but work in pvp ((since SOE fails horribly as is since our stonewill gear still is broke on pvp when doing pve stuff)) Id begrudgingly accept them adding new bg armor that is equal to our tso ones, even take off the crit mit but give them the set bonuses and heroic resistance.</blockquote>Thank you for that post Xaomen. You are one of 3 logical players I have seen from Naggy server. I do not see a problem with the jewelry being made available also, but that is another point to the argument. For now, I should hope a GM will see this and say, "omg, I guess we did give naggy/vox an advantage in 80 BGs..."</blockquote>Jewelery is a copy of raid gear, those that arne't you can already get, so you have access to them.I love how you keep saying we need an advantage, I know I don't, I just don't feel you guys should get the best of both worlds, Either give up total security, or don't get the gear.

ThadeusOfShibboleth

10-06-2010, 04:20 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I’m from naggy (well venny but eh)) and no I don’t think you should be able to obtain our pvp gear. That being said nor do I think it’s fair for us pvpers to be able to use it in bgs, and by many people’s admission from the pvp servers BG is not PVP, if that’s true then there’s 0 reason we should be allowed to use pvp gear there.I know ill probably get flamed for saying that but eh, it’s true whether people want to admit it or not. I think the best way to solve this issue and I can see it’s been said many times before now, is to disable the pvp specific gear for bgs and leave it at that.Though I have a feeling to code it so it will still work properly in pvp but not in bgs is probably such a massive and time consuming undertaking that that is probably the reason it wasn’t done in the first place.And sure when bgs first came out I felt pretty godlike with my full set of tso armor that the bluebies didn’t have and I knew they couldn’t get, but never did I think I had earned some special privilege to have a clear unfair advantage over them in anyway, and for the record I’m talking about the tso ARMOR sets, not the jewelry.Some of our tso armors set bonuses make us rather op, especially the mage sets, that ward for a mere 2 set bonus is ubber.In the end since its probably a ton of work to try and edit the code to disable the pvp armor from tso from working in bgs but work in pvp ((since SOE fails horribly as is since our stonewill gear still is broke on pvp when doing pve stuff)) Id begrudgingly accept them adding new bg armor that is equal to our tso ones, even take off the crit mit but give them the set bonuses and heroic resistance.</blockquote>Thank you for that post Xaomen. You are one of 3 logical players I have seen from Naggy server. I do not see a problem with the jewelry being made available also, but that is another point to the argument. For now, I should hope a GM will see this and say, "omg, I guess we did give naggy/vox an advantage in 80 BGs..."</blockquote>Jewelery is a copy of raid gear, those that arne't you can already get, so you have access to them.I love how you keep saying we need an advantage, I know I don't, I just don't feel you guys should get the best of both worlds, Either give up total security, or don't get the gear.</blockquote>You mean how you didn't get the Avatar gear and are pushing for it on the merchant? How is this different from what we are requesting? Hell I'd love to have that and I'm on a PvE server! lol

Notsovilepriest

10-06-2010, 04:25 PM

<cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I’m from naggy (well venny but eh)) and no I don’t think you should be able to obtain our pvp gear. That being said nor do I think it’s fair for us pvpers to be able to use it in bgs, and by many people’s admission from the pvp servers BG is not PVP, if that’s true then there’s 0 reason we should be allowed to use pvp gear there.I know ill probably get flamed for saying that but eh, it’s true whether people want to admit it or not. I think the best way to solve this issue and I can see it’s been said many times before now, is to disable the pvp specific gear for bgs and leave it at that.Though I have a feeling to code it so it will still work properly in pvp but not in bgs is probably such a massive and time consuming undertaking that that is probably the reason it wasn’t done in the first place.And sure when bgs first came out I felt pretty godlike with my full set of tso armor that the bluebies didn’t have and I knew they couldn’t get, but never did I think I had earned some special privilege to have a clear unfair advantage over them in anyway, and for the record I’m talking about the tso ARMOR sets, not the jewelry.Some of our tso armors set bonuses make us rather op, especially the mage sets, that ward for a mere 2 set bonus is ubber.In the end since its probably a ton of work to try and edit the code to disable the pvp armor from tso from working in bgs but work in pvp ((since SOE fails horribly as is since our stonewill gear still is broke on pvp when doing pve stuff)) Id begrudgingly accept them adding new bg armor that is equal to our tso ones, even take off the crit mit but give them the set bonuses and heroic resistance.</blockquote>Thank you for that post Xaomen. You are one of 3 logical players I have seen from Naggy server. I do not see a problem with the jewelry being made available also, but that is another point to the argument. For now, I should hope a GM will see this and say, "omg, I guess we did give naggy/vox an advantage in 80 BGs..."</blockquote>Jewelery is a copy of raid gear, those that arne't you can already get, so you have access to them.I love how you keep saying we need an advantage, I know I don't, I just don't feel you guys should get the best of both worlds, Either give up total security, or don't get the gear.</blockquote>You mean how you didn't get the Avatar gear and are pushing for it on the merchant? How is this different from what we are requesting? Hell I'd love to have that and I'm on a PvE server! lol</blockquote>I only said that after you guys requested my gear, Not the other way around. It was more to show how dumb it is to request PvP gear on a PvE server

ThadeusOfShibboleth

10-06-2010, 05:38 PM

We don't want PvP gear...we want BG Gear comparable to what PvP player attain, to make the battlefield and even arena.OR as a previously mentioned, PvP gear doesn't work in BG's, and EVERYONE has to earn the exact same BG gear.Problem solved, you get to keep your "special" PvP gear for your server and your server only. We would see items with tags like:<ul><li>Applies 3% potency on home server only</li></ul><or><ul><li>Applies 3% potency in Battleground areas</li></ul>Don't want to work for two sets of gear? Why not? That's what we do!PvE: Raid/instance for PvE gear , run BG's for PvP GearPvP: PvP/Raid/instance for PvP GearSo don't go saying it wouldn't be fair.

Notsovilepriest

10-06-2010, 05:43 PM

<cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>We don't want PvP gear...we want BG Gear comparable to what PvP player attain, to make the battlefield and even arena.OR as a previously mentioned, PvP gear doesn't work in BG's, and EVERYONE has to earn the exact same BG gear.Problem solved, you get to keep your "special" PvP gear for your server and your server only. We would see items with tags like:<ul><li>Applies 3% potency on home server only</li></ul><ul><li>Applies 3% potency in Battleground areas</li></ul>Don't want to work for two sets of gear? Why not? That's what we do!PvE: Raid/instance for PvE gear , run BG's for PvP GearPvP: PvP/Raid/instance for PvP GearSo don't go saying it wouldn't be fair.</blockquote>You realize that would put at at 3 sets of gear? PvP, BG, and PvE, My PvE armor isn't effective in PvP or BGs, and you want to make PvP gear useless in BGs, so need a whole nother set on top of that. You're actual grasp on what goes on for PvP servers is funny because it's almost non-exsistant.

Wigg

10-06-2010, 06:35 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>We don't want PvP gear...we want BG Gear comparable to what PvP player attain, to make the battlefield and even arena.OR as a previously mentioned, PvP gear doesn't work in BG's, and EVERYONE has to earn the exact same BG gear.Problem solved, you get to keep your "special" PvP gear for your server and your server only. We would see items with tags like:<ul><li>Applies 3% potency on home server only</li></ul><ul><li>Applies 3% potency in Battleground areas</li></ul>Don't want to work for two sets of gear? Why not? That's what we do!PvE: Raid/instance for PvE gear , run BG's for PvP GearPvP: PvP/Raid/instance for PvP GearSo don't go saying it wouldn't be fair.</blockquote>You realize that would put at at 3 sets of gear? PvP, BG, and PvE, My PvE armor isn't effective in PvP or BGs, and you want to make PvP gear useless in BGs, so need a whole nother set on top of that. You're actual grasp on what goes on for PvP servers is funny because it's almost non-exsistant.</blockquote>Then stop arguing against the TSO sets going on the BG merchant, because to balance it out one of two things will have to happen.A. Those items are disabled in BGs and therefore you have to buy ANOTHER set of gear to be competitive. B. Those items get put on the merchantsNow for your quote, "Jewelery is a copy of raid gear, those that arne't you can already get, so you have access to them.I love how you keep saying we need an advantage, I know I don't, I just don't feel you guys should get the best of both worlds, Either give up total security, or don't get the gear."Do you have raid zones? Oh thats right you do. Do you have a merchant that also sales comparable gear AND had a price drop since the expansion?? Oh that did happen and by 1/10th the cost the items originally were. So, You have raiding to access it (which no one wants to raid TOMC), and 1/10 the cost it was before the expansion on a merchant. I would say that is by far an advantage in accessing gear. And that's just the jewelry. The TSO armor we don't have access too because the raid gear doesn't have toughness!

Notsovilepriest

10-06-2010, 08:45 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>We don't want PvP gear...we want BG Gear comparable to what PvP player attain, to make the battlefield and even arena.OR as a previously mentioned, PvP gear doesn't work in BG's, and EVERYONE has to earn the exact same BG gear.Problem solved, you get to keep your "special" PvP gear for your server and your server only. We would see items with tags like:<ul><li>Applies 3% potency on home server only</li></ul><ul><li>Applies 3% potency in Battleground areas</li></ul>Don't want to work for two sets of gear? Why not? That's what we do!PvE: Raid/instance for PvE gear , run BG's for PvP GearPvP: PvP/Raid/instance for PvP GearSo don't go saying it wouldn't be fair.</blockquote>You realize that would put at at 3 sets of gear? PvP, BG, and PvE, My PvE armor isn't effective in PvP or BGs, and you want to make PvP gear useless in BGs, so need a whole nother set on top of that. You're actual grasp on what goes on for PvP servers is funny because it's almost non-exsistant.</blockquote>Then stop arguing against the TSO sets going on the BG merchant, because to balance it out one of two things will have to happen.A. Those items are disabled in BGs and therefore you have to buy ANOTHER set of gear to be competitive. B. Those items get put on the merchantsNow for your quote, "Jewelery is a copy of raid gear, those that arne't you can already get, so you have access to them.I love how you keep saying we need an advantage, I know I don't, I just don't feel you guys should get the best of both worlds, Either give up total security, or don't get the gear."Do you have raid zones? Oh thats right you do. Do you have a merchant that also sales comparable gear AND had a price drop since the expansion?? Oh that did happen and by 1/10th the cost the items originally were. So, You have raiding to access it (which no one wants to raid TOMC), and 1/10 the cost it was before the expansion on a merchant. I would say that is by far an advantage in accessing gear. And that's just the jewelry. The TSO armor we don't have access too because the raid gear doesn't have toughness!</blockquote>They also have players on a PvP server an alternative way to attain some of the raid gear in 1 expansion since it is...A PvP server! i don't need gear you can't get to stomp 90%+ of the people in BGs. It's just a fallacy you have that you can scapegoat not doing was well as you feel you should.

Wigg

10-06-2010, 09:02 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>We don't want PvP gear...we want BG Gear comparable to what PvP player attain, to make the battlefield and even arena.OR as a previously mentioned, PvP gear doesn't work in BG's, and EVERYONE has to earn the exact same BG gear.Problem solved, you get to keep your "special" PvP gear for your server and your server only. We would see items with tags like:<ul><li>Applies 3% potency on home server only</li></ul><ul><li>Applies 3% potency in Battleground areas</li></ul>Don't want to work for two sets of gear? Why not? That's what we do!PvE: Raid/instance for PvE gear , run BG's for PvP GearPvP: PvP/Raid/instance for PvP GearSo don't go saying it wouldn't be fair.</blockquote>You realize that would put at at 3 sets of gear? PvP, BG, and PvE, My PvE armor isn't effective in PvP or BGs, and you want to make PvP gear useless in BGs, so need a whole nother set on top of that. You're actual grasp on what goes on for PvP servers is funny because it's almost non-exsistant.</blockquote>Then stop arguing against the TSO sets going on the BG merchant, because to balance it out one of two things will have to happen.A. Those items are disabled in BGs and therefore you have to buy ANOTHER set of gear to be competitive. B. Those items get put on the merchantsNow for your quote, "Jewelery is a copy of raid gear, those that arne't you can already get, so you have access to them.I love how you keep saying we need an advantage, I know I don't, I just don't feel you guys should get the best of both worlds, Either give up total security, or don't get the gear."Do you have raid zones? Oh thats right you do. Do you have a merchant that also sales comparable gear AND had a price drop since the expansion?? Oh that did happen and by 1/10th the cost the items originally were. So, You have raiding to access it (which no one wants to raid TOMC), and 1/10 the cost it was before the expansion on a merchant. I would say that is by far an advantage in accessing gear. And that's just the jewelry. The TSO armor we don't have access too because the raid gear doesn't have toughness!</blockquote>They also have players on a PvP server an alternative way to attain some of the raid gear in 1 expansion since it is...A PvP server! i don't need gear you can't get to stomp 90%+ of the people in BGs. It's just a fallacy you have that you can scapegoat not doing was well as you feel you should.</blockquote>? So first you go from saying you want to keep it because it's pvp gear on your server.. to.. we imagine the fact that Heroic Resistance X is OP since we don't have it? Toughness on the raid gear that has better damage stats that the BG gear? 2000 point wards on the 2 piece mage set? Your right, completely imagined any of that was better than the BG gear... Especially since you have BOTH BG and pvp gear to chose from.Oh, and PS, I have no problem whatsoever owning, as you said 99% of the people in BGs, but when I face that 1% that have the same amount of AAs and playing skill as me but have better access to gear, guess who wins? And [Removed for Content] is the big deal? It's level 80 gear!?

ThadeusOfShibboleth

10-06-2010, 09:45 PM

I'm done debating against your tunnel vision. Hopefully the people who actually matter recognize the balance issues IN BGs from T4-T9 and correct it. It looks like they are off to a decent start by offering T4 wrist items and weapons on PvE BG merchants. I just wish they would complete the 5set for the "procs way more often than it should" spell reflect. Yet another PvP mechanic/item PvE players cannot get.

Wigg

10-06-2010, 11:54 PM

<cite>Thaddeus@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm done debating against your tunnel vision. Hopefully the people who actually matter recognize the balance issues IN BGs from T4-T9 and correct it. It looks like they are off to a decent start by offering T4 wrist items and weapons on PvE BG merchants. I just wish they would complete the 5set for the "procs way more often than it should" spell reflect. Yet another PvP mechanic/item PvE players cannot get.</blockquote>Olihin is supposed to be the dev in charge of this but the only comments he has made on the matter is PVE will never see the gear. Honestly, take a look Olihin, you may speak for the pvp population but if i'm not mistaken, there is a LOT more people who play on pve servers. Stop screwing us over so you can look good to your pvp followers and actually respond to our feedback.

Landiin

10-07-2010, 12:52 PM

The way I see it, is if you want the PVP gear go play on a PVP server. PVP server people should have better PVP gear because they live whit PVP from the sec they log on. With yalls logic none BG players should be able to buy BG gear with their instance and raid tokens b/c they might play BG once in a while.

Proud_Silence

10-07-2010, 02:26 PM

From this thread: <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=90&topic_id=485178" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=485178</a>pvp dev Olihin answering to bluebie cries:Greetings,It is true that in the future, all items available in PvP will also be added to the Battlegrounds vendors. This removes quite a bit of the unique factor we had planned for in open PvP. We will make new items that will upgrade most of the older items, so adding them to the vendors is not something we plan to do. If you really want the item, then you will need to join a PvP server to earn them at this time. OlihinAs you can see, you can stop asking to get OUR T8 pvp gear, since you will not get it. Good bye.

Wigg

10-07-2010, 03:36 PM

<cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote>From this thread: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=90&topic_id=485178" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=485178</a>pvp dev Olihin answering to bluebie cries:Greetings,It is true that in the future, all items available in PvP will also be added to the Battlegrounds vendors. This removes quite a bit of the unique factor we had planned for in open PvP. We will make new items that will upgrade most of the older items, so adding them to the vendors is not something we plan to do. If you really want the item, then you will need to join a PvP server to earn them at this time. OlihinAs you can see, you can stop asking to get OUR T8 pvp gear, since you will not get it. Good bye.</blockquote>Wow, you couldn't have proven my point any better than if I had wrote that. "We will make new items that will upgrade most of the older items, so adding them to the vendors is not something we plan to do." These new items on test DO NOT UPGRADE anything. They are POS items that are actually worse than some of the gear offered now at level 80. Now, using your logic, PVE servers should get a new raid zone with nice gear that is unavailable to pvp servers. Back to what makes sense, BGs should be a fair and equal cross server match. PVP players need to stop leaning on a crutch of better gear at lower levels.PS and Edit: Any dev want to comment on the fact that the new BG gear is not only COMPLETELY over priced but absolute crap compared to the pvp items? And when can we expect Herioc Resistance X on the BG chest?

Proud_Silence

10-07-2010, 06:21 PM

Greetings,It is true that in the future, all items available in PvP will also be added to the Battlegrounds vendors. This removes quite a bit of the unique factor we had planned for in open PvP. We will make new items that will upgrade most of the older items, so adding them to the vendors is not something we plan to do. If you really want the item, then you will need to join a PvP server to earn them at this time. OlihinSince you do not comprehend what Olihin posted, i highlighted the parts that you should be able to understand.or in even easier words:unique to pvp server items = staying only available to pvp serverANY NEW item = available on pvp and pve servers.

Proud_Silence

10-07-2010, 06:36 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote>From this thread: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=90&topic_id=485178" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=485178</a>pvp dev Olihin answering to bluebie cries:Greetings,It is true that in the future, all items available in PvP will also be added to the Battlegrounds vendors. This removes quite a bit of the unique factor we had planned for in open PvP. We will make new items that will upgrade most of the older items, so adding them to the vendors is not something we plan to do. If you really want the item, then you will need to join a PvP server to earn them at this time. OlihinAs you can see, you can stop asking to get OUR T8 pvp gear, since you will not get it. Good bye.</blockquote> Now, using your logic, PVE servers should get a new raid zone with nice gear that is unavailable to pvp servers.1. It's not my logic, it's yours.2. pvp servers are pve servers that have pvp enabled. we're like a PVE deluxe server, with everything a PVE server has, PLUS pvp. Back to what makes sense, BGs should be a fair and equal cross server match. PVP players need to stop leaning on a crutch of better gear at lower levels.Who ever said that it should be equal ? Picture this: an alien race coming from a planet with 5 x higher gravitation then Earth lands here, so they are much stronger then human beings. Apply that though to BG's; we're the alien race with superior might, and we get that for playing on a red server where you are in danger of getting killed anywhere in open world, you can't carry your money around and server population is divided into 3 factions that can't interact with eachother. Bad enough we dont get proper pvp gear in T9 because of bluebies, yet you cry and moan until we're nothing but a lame version of a pve server with the negative effects pvp brings, and no advantage. Advantage being items that are not available on other servers, you know, the way it was before BG.</blockquote>

Notsovilepriest

10-07-2010, 08:11 PM

<cite>Toranx@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>The way I see it, is if you want the PVP gear go play on a PVP server. PVP server people should have better PVP gear because they live whit PVP from the sec they log on. With yalls logic none BG players should be able to buy BG gear with their instance and raid tokens b/c they might play BG once in a while.</blockquote>Thanks for actaully getting what I've been saying. I really appreciate it. I don't want an advantage nor need it, but you can't totally strip the PvP only perks and expect it to be ok with the population. Also, To Wigg, Saying that "Majority" want this since there are more PvE players, terrible logic. Just because a majority wants something doesn't mean that it's right and you should dump on the minority. That only alienates people and makes them want to quit, shrinking population further.

Wigg

10-08-2010, 09:16 AM

<cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Proud_Silence wrote:</cite><blockquote>From this thread: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=90&topic_id=485178" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=485178</a>pvp dev Olihin answering to bluebie cries:Greetings,It is true that in the future, all items available in PvP will also be added to the Battlegrounds vendors. This removes quite a bit of the unique factor we had planned for in open PvP. We will make new items that will upgrade most of the older items, so adding them to the vendors is not something we plan to do. If you really want the item, then you will need to join a PvP server to earn them at this time. OlihinAs you can see, you can stop asking to get OUR T8 pvp gear, since you will not get it. Good bye.</blockquote> Now, using your logic, PVE servers should get a new raid zone with nice gear that is unavailable to pvp servers.1. It's not my logic, it's yours.2. pvp servers are pve servers that have pvp enabled. we're like a PVE deluxe server, with everything a PVE server has, PLUS pvp. Back to what makes sense, BGs should be a fair and equal cross server match. PVP players need to stop leaning on a crutch of better gear at lower levels.Who ever said that it should be equal ? Picture this: an alien race coming from a planet with 5 x higher gravitation then Earth lands here, so they are much stronger then human beings. Apply that though to BG's; we're the alien race with superior might, and we get that for playing on a red server where you are in danger of getting killed anywhere in open world, you can't carry your money around and server population is divided into 3 factions that can't interact with eachother. Bad enough we dont get proper pvp gear in T9 because of bluebies, yet you cry and moan until we're nothing but a lame version of a pve server with the negative effects pvp brings, and no advantage. Advantage being items that are not available on other servers, you know, the way it was before BG.</blockquote></blockquote>You don't get "proper" gear because BGs is supposed to be an EQUAL match. I have no problem with you having the advantage of have 2 ways to obtain the gear (pvp and through BGs) as is your right for being on that server. But all the post by Proud_silence proves is he WANTS the advantage in gear and that is the reason for not sharing. If you read through my post, you will understand that the gear they are offering is NOT EQUAL no less an upgrade to the old pvp items. If Olihin's intentions are true and he wants to balance BGs, Upgrade these items please. Can one person reading this thread HONESTLY tell me that the new items for mages (4% crit, 2% casting speed, 12 toughness) are anywhere near the stats of the other items on the pvp broker or even the mark merchant? While mentored a lvl 86 faction ring has 7.7% crit, 2.1% casting speed and 112 ability modifer. That is a legendary item that has better overall stats than these items for mages. If they hadn't made the changes to toughness I would say that this could help balance some, but with toughness dropping in its effectiveness, 12 toughness on the jewelry at 80 just isn't worth the drop in damage.Now, can we have a dev comment on the 6 pages since you always appear to ignore something that's dangling in your face?

Brugg

10-08-2010, 03:06 PM

Olihin has already commented on this situation. They are going to add items in the future that are better than the current 30-80 ones. Look at it from both sides; Blue players in level 80 cannot kill red player who is in his RoK set gear that offers a runic barrier proc and enhanced ability focus. So blue player wants runic barrier too. Red player worked his behind off to get set armor and believes that blue player should not be able to have it for BG. Blue player feels its unfair. Olihin tells blue player to roll on pvp server to get the gear. Blue player does not want to roll on pvp server because he has been on his home server since launch, along with all his alts and online friends. What is the solution here? I think that secretly it is amusing to red players in BG ( lvl 80 ) that they have this gear advantage and that they know blue players will never have it. And blue players feel like Olihin has ignored the obvious disadvantage. Olihin says new items will be more desirable than those other sets but blue players are still feeling upset because they have to face better geared red player in BG with no hope of getting equal gear. Red player contently rolls into BG with gear advantage. Do you really think players like ( well you know who they are in level 80 ) would be as competitive without the RoK set? Red player says gear doesnt make the difference but still wear it in BG. Blue player believes that its the gear alone that is causing them to get wtfownd so easily. I think that in BG everyone must wear BG armor. Or remove toughness completely and let blue players be on even keel. I wonder why toughness was even put in game. Now they are nerfing it so maybe this will change things a little. I have hope.

Wigg

10-08-2010, 04:04 PM

<cite>Thayer@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Olihin has already commented on this situation. They are going to add items in the future that are better than the current 30-80 ones. Look at it from both sides; Blue players in level 80 cannot kill red player who is in his RoK set gear that offers a runic barrier proc and enhanced ability focus. So blue player wants runic barrier too. Red player worked his behind off to get set armor and believes that blue player should not be able to have it for BG. Blue player feels its unfair. Olihin tells blue player to roll on pvp server to get the gear. Blue player does not want to roll on pvp server because he has been on his home server since launch, along with all his alts and online friends. What is the solution here? I think that secretly it is amusing to red players in BG ( lvl 80 ) that they have this gear advantage and that they know blue players will never have it. And blue players feel like Olihin has ignored the obvious disadvantage. Olihin says new items will be more desirable than those other sets but blue players are still feeling upset because they have to face better geared red player in BG with no hope of getting equal gear. Red player contently rolls into BG with gear advantage. Do you really think players like ( well you know who they are in level 80 ) would be as competitive without the RoK set? Red player says gear doesnt make the difference but still wear it in BG. Blue player believes that its the gear alone that is causing them to get wtfownd so easily. I think that in BG everyone must wear BG armor. Or remove toughness completely and let blue players be on even keel. I wonder why toughness was even put in game. Now they are nerfing it so maybe this will change things a little. I have hope.</blockquote>I agree with you 100% Thayer cept the getting owned part. I believe there is only 1 player who has been able to constantly 1v1 me and win and thats Hiphopp. But that is a warlock vs a Wizzy and with his toughness/crit mit, my plaguebringer with 29% potency and 36% crit bonus does an amazing 2.5k dmg (with him debuffed)... On the other hand his Ice comet has hits me for 7k-9k. Remember that these are at level 80 so 9k knocks me down to about 20% life while mine barely affects him because of the wards. The rest of the "top" people in 80 BGs i have 1v1 many times and walked away the victor. Ttornado, a fully geared T8 pvped warlock I have beaten a few times, but I believe my advantage there is AAs and AA choices since his spells hit my warlock for almost twice as much. (had to sacrafice toughness to pick up T4 raid armor to keep up with their damage). These "items" that are supposed to balance level 80 BGs are on the test server right now and have terrible stats, especially considering the nerf on toughness. Would a GM PLEASE respond to the fact that the mage gear sucks in comparison to what is out there.

Notsovilepriest

10-08-2010, 04:25 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thayer@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Olihin has already commented on this situation. They are going to add items in the future that are better than the current 30-80 ones. Look at it from both sides; Blue players in level 80 cannot kill red player who is in his RoK set gear that offers a runic barrier proc and enhanced ability focus. So blue player wants runic barrier too. Red player worked his behind off to get set armor and believes that blue player should not be able to have it for BG. Blue player feels its unfair. Olihin tells blue player to roll on pvp server to get the gear. Blue player does not want to roll on pvp server because he has been on his home server since launch, along with all his alts and online friends. What is the solution here? I think that secretly it is amusing to red players in BG ( lvl 80 ) that they have this gear advantage and that they know blue players will never have it. And blue players feel like Olihin has ignored the obvious disadvantage. Olihin says new items will be more desirable than those other sets but blue players are still feeling upset because they have to face better geared red player in BG with no hope of getting equal gear. Red player contently rolls into BG with gear advantage. Do you really think players like ( well you know who they are in level 80 ) would be as competitive without the RoK set? Red player says gear doesnt make the difference but still wear it in BG. Blue player believes that its the gear alone that is causing them to get wtfownd so easily. I think that in BG everyone must wear BG armor. Or remove toughness completely and let blue players be on even keel. I wonder why toughness was even put in game. Now they are nerfing it so maybe this will change things a little. I have hope.</blockquote>I agree with you 100% Thayer cept the getting owned part. I believe there is only 1 player who has been able to constantly 1v1 me and win and thats Hiphopp. But that is a warlock vs a Wizzy and with his toughness/crit mit, my plaguebringer with 29% potency and 36% crit bonus does an amazing 2.5k dmg (with him debuffed)... On the other hand his Ice comet has hits me for 7k-9k. Remember that these are at level 80 so 9k knocks me down to about 20% life while mine barely affects him because of the wards. The rest of the "top" people in 80 BGs i have 1v1 many times and walked away the victor. Ttornado, a fully geared T8 pvped warlock I have beaten a few times, but I believe my advantage there is AAs and AA choices since his spells hit my warlock for almost twice as much. (had to sacrafice toughness to pick up T4 raid armor to keep up with their damage). These "items" that are supposed to balance level 80 BGs are on the test server right now and have terrible stats, especially considering the nerf on toughness. Would a GM PLEASE respond to the fact that the mage gear sucks in comparison to what is out there.</blockquote>Do you even read the proc effect your looking at and whining for so much? That ward proc only works on Physical Damage, which has no effect on a warlock/wiz fight like you imply. Thats not the reason you lose and has no effect on the damage you do to him, and yet further proves the point players will find any excuse for losing short of themselves, no matter how invalid.

Wigg

10-08-2010, 07:07 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thayer@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Olihin has already commented on this situation. They are going to add items in the future that are better than the current 30-80 ones. Look at it from both sides; Blue players in level 80 cannot kill red player who is in his RoK set gear that offers a runic barrier proc and enhanced ability focus. So blue player wants runic barrier too. Red player worked his behind off to get set armor and believes that blue player should not be able to have it for BG. Blue player feels its unfair. Olihin tells blue player to roll on pvp server to get the gear. Blue player does not want to roll on pvp server because he has been on his home server since launch, along with all his alts and online friends. What is the solution here? I think that secretly it is amusing to red players in BG ( lvl 80 ) that they have this gear advantage and that they know blue players will never have it. And blue players feel like Olihin has ignored the obvious disadvantage. Olihin says new items will be more desirable than those other sets but blue players are still feeling upset because they have to face better geared red player in BG with no hope of getting equal gear. Red player contently rolls into BG with gear advantage. Do you really think players like ( well you know who they are in level 80 ) would be as competitive without the RoK set? Red player says gear doesnt make the difference but still wear it in BG. Blue player believes that its the gear alone that is causing them to get wtfownd so easily. I think that in BG everyone must wear BG armor. Or remove toughness completely and let blue players be on even keel. I wonder why toughness was even put in game. Now they are nerfing it so maybe this will change things a little. I have hope.</blockquote>I agree with you 100% Thayer cept the getting owned part. I believe there is only 1 player who has been able to constantly 1v1 me and win and thats Hiphopp. But that is a warlock vs a Wizzy and with his toughness/crit mit, my plaguebringer with 29% potency and 36% crit bonus does an amazing 2.5k dmg (with him debuffed)... On the other hand his Ice comet has hits me for 7k-9k. Remember that these are at level 80 so 9k knocks me down to about 20% life while mine barely affects him because of the wards. The rest of the "top" people in 80 BGs i have 1v1 many times and walked away the victor. Ttornado, a fully geared T8 pvped warlock I have beaten a few times, but I believe my advantage there is AAs and AA choices since his spells hit my warlock for almost twice as much. (had to sacrafice toughness to pick up T4 raid armor to keep up with their damage). These "items" that are supposed to balance level 80 BGs are on the test server right now and have terrible stats, especially considering the nerf on toughness. Would a GM PLEASE respond to the fact that the mage gear sucks in comparison to what is out there.</blockquote>Do you even read the proc effect your looking at and whining for so much? That ward proc only works on Physical Damage, which has no effect on a warlock/wiz fight like you imply. Thats not the reason you lose and has no effect on the damage you do to him, and yet further proves the point players will find any excuse for losing short of themselves, no matter how invalid.</blockquote>I said the damage of the nukes with prevention, not how much is warded. The T8 pvp chest has Herioc Resistance X on it which reduces cricital damage by 10%. Also, I have to wear T4 raid armor in some slots to stay effective in damage which has NO toughness, while pvp get shoulders that have 10% potency AND 35 toughness... Please stop placing your foot in your mouth on this page and let a dev who actually understands mechanics respond to this thread.

Wigg

10-10-2010, 03:17 AM

Now saturday and 6 pages later in the "In Testing Feedback" thread and we still have heard nothing from the devs about the new items not even being an upgrade. Well, I know the purpose of the BGs was to make characters of all level ranges but since 90 BGs is the only one that is actually a fair playing field guess I'll just have to level them all to 90 =(.

Notsovilepriest

10-10-2010, 03:44 AM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now saturday and 6 pages later in the "In Testing Feedback" thread and we still have heard nothing from the devs about the new items not even being an upgrade. Well, I know the purpose of the BGs was to make characters of all level ranges but since 90 BGs is the only one that is actually a fair playing field guess I'll just have to level them all to 90 =(.</blockquote>I almost feel bad you don't get PvP gear for less work, Oh wait, Nope I don't

Jesters

10-10-2010, 05:39 AM

Wigg

10-10-2010, 12:20 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now saturday and 6 pages later in the "In Testing Feedback" thread and we still have heard nothing from the devs about the new items not even being an upgrade. Well, I know the purpose of the BGs was to make characters of all level ranges but since 90 BGs is the only one that is actually a fair playing field guess I'll just have to level them all to 90 =(.</blockquote>I almost feel bad you don't get PvP gear for less work, Oh wait, Nope I don't</blockquote>Yes bc zergfest and warfields make obtaining 100 tokens impossible... Notsofilepriest just to prove you wrong in one thread I rolled a ranger to 30 and started obtaining tokens in mass quantity. Remember, level 30 had 120sh tokens and full BG/pvp gear in just a week of casual play zerging. That isn't possible to do on the pve servers. So why don't you stop eating your foot on this forum.

Wigg

10-10-2010, 01:25 PM

Well, while you don't actually respond to the thread I like the response you gave even better. 5% pvp potency on those items should balance them out. Now just add Herioc Resistance X to the BG chest piece, 7% more pvp potency to the BG shoulders, and I will consider it level playing field.

Xillean

10-10-2010, 01:56 PM

Acutally yes I do agree bg gear should be its own seperate set with no pvp gear of any kind in it from our side and maybe even no pve gear just start out with the bg mastercrafted set and work towards your own bg set, that would have been the best imo.I for one wouldnt have had any problems having to get a pve set, pvp, and a bg set if I wanted to bg. This would have also encourgaed as you said people on nagyy to actully pvp.

Notsovilepriest

10-10-2010, 02:28 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Now saturday and 6 pages later in the "In Testing Feedback" thread and we still have heard nothing from the devs about the new items not even being an upgrade. Well, I know the purpose of the BGs was to make characters of all level ranges but since 90 BGs is the only one that is actually a fair playing field guess I'll just have to level them all to 90 =(.</blockquote>I almost feel bad you don't get PvP gear for less work, Oh wait, Nope I don't</blockquote>Yes bc zergfest and warfields make obtaining 100 tokens impossible... Notsofilepriest just to prove you wrong in one thread I rolled a ranger to 30 and started obtaining tokens in mass quantity. Remember, level 30 had 120sh tokens and full BG/pvp gear in just a week of casual play zerging. That isn't possible to do on the pve servers. So why don't you stop eating your foot on this forum.</blockquote>So 1 week you accumulatred less than 1 piece of gear(Assuming you want that jewelery or chest or legs), while exploiting warfields as a grey and leeching both of which are being changed. Also I didn't say the work was just attaining the tokens, it's dealing with PvP every day when you try to get the basic things done, is it fun, sometimes, is it annoying when you kill someone 4 times and they still don't leave you alone, yes. Is it fun to pull contested mobs and have a group run up and destroy your tank since he is wearing no toughnesss gear and they are, no. You are being so short sited.

Notsovilepriest

10-10-2010, 02:29 PM

<cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Acutally yes I do agree bg gear should be its own seperate set with no pvp gear of any kind in it from our side and maybe even no pve gear just start out with the bg mastercrafted set and work towards your own bg set, that would have been the best imo.I for one wouldnt have had any problems having to get a pve set, pvp, and a bg set if I wanted to bg. This would have also encourgaed as you said people on nagyy to actully pvp.</blockquote>Yea! Lets punish those who actually put time into their toons to make them the best they can be and then in turn force everyone into the exact same gear! Terrible idea

Xillean

10-10-2010, 02:35 PM

Thats your opinion and what I said was mine. Nothing terrible about having to get a set of gear and it doesnt punish anyone, pvp would still have thier gear for, omg pvp!Your narrow mindess knows no ends it seems, I put a great deal of time into my toons, always have but it doesnt give me or anyone the right to have gear thats better then everyone else, being on a pvp server only entiles us to pvp gear for pvp, bg isnt pvp and never will be period.There is 0 risk in bg, you are assured tokens even for losing, and you can even do daily quests for gold and you cant even be killed and drop said gold.While in pvp you can drop all the plat you have if you forget to bank it, have to kill people to get updates to get your tokens (or you cna warfield it up for a few free tokens) and if you lose in pvp you dont get sqaut.People really need to stop making bgs into pvp, its not. Which is why in my orginal post I said our pvp gear shouldnt be allowed in bgs in the first place and I stand by that.

Notsovilepriest

10-10-2010, 02:41 PM

<cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thats your opinion and what I said was mine. Nothing terrible about having to get a set of gear and it doesnt punish anyone, pvp would still have thier gear for, omg pvp!Your narrow mindess knows no ends it seems, I put a great deal of time into my toons, always have but it doesnt give me or anyone the right to have gear thats better then everyone else, being on a pvp server only entiles us to pvp gear for pvp, bg isnt pvp and never will be period.</blockquote>Ok, So you want PvP players to attain a PvP Set(Which is the same as BG, But only useable outside BGs), BG set, PvE Set. So basically attain 2 sets of the EXACT same gear. PvP players already hate the seperation of gear making them have to have 2 sets, let alone 3.

Notsovilepriest

10-10-2010, 02:43 PM

<cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is 0 risk in bg, you are assured tokens even for losing, and you can even do daily quests for gold and you cant even be killed and drop said gold.While in pvp you can drop all the plat you have if you forget to bank it, have to kill people to get updates to get your tokens (or you cna warfield it up for a few free tokens) and if you lose in pvp you dont get sqaut.People really need to stop making bgs into pvp, its not. Which is why in my orginal post I said our pvp gear shouldnt be allowed in bgs in the first place and I stand by that.</blockquote>Granted PvP death risks are small too, this is exactly why they SHOULDN'T have it. No matter what they do, they get something. BGs are PVP, just in a can, they use the exact same strategies and mechanics, but the difference is there is literally a reward for losing.

Xillean

10-10-2010, 02:53 PM

If pvpers want to bg then yeah. I for one am on the pvp server to pvp and not bg. I avoid bgs as much as possible unless friends want me to heal them, I love to pvp, and even though I dont like the incoming cure nerf I see it as a challenge to try and overcome.The way I see it is if bluebies want to pvp and get our gear they need to roll a toon on naggy or vox and earn it the same as us, if we want to bg we should have to get bg gear just for the bgs.Since our current armor is the same as the bg armor of course I wouldnt expect anyone to have to work to get two sets or armor thats pretty much the same, my idea was that we would have had our own t10 armor and weapons and the like unqie to pvp, and the bg armor would be just that bg armor.In the end my point of view is that since bgs isnt pvp then why should we get a advantage of our pvp gear in the first place, and in my orignal post I stated I dont think they should get our gear, and I still dont, but I wouldnt care if they gave heoric resistance X to the 80 armour.Id be open to any compromise tbh to amke it a more even playing field, that just doesnt flat out give them our tso sets, to me a middle ground would be sorry you dont get the set bonouses but we will add more potency and some heroic resistance to them to make them a little bit on par.

Notsovilepriest

10-10-2010, 02:57 PM

<cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If pvpers want to bg then yeah. I for one am on the pvp server to pvp and not bg. I avoid bgs as much as possible unless friends want me to heal them, I love to pvp, and even though I dont like the incoming cure nerf I see it as a challenge to try and overcome.The way I see it is if bluebies want to pvp and get our gear they need to roll a toon on naggy or vox and earn it the same as us, if we want to bg we should have to get bg gear just for the bgs.Since our current armor is the same as the bg armor of course I wouldnt expect anyone to have to work to get two sets or armor thats pretty much the same, my idea was that we would have had our own t10 armor and weapons and the like unqie to pvp, and the bg armor would be just that bg armor.In the end my point of view is that since bgs isnt pvp then why should we get a advantage of our pvp gear in the first place, and in my orignal post I stated I dont think they should get our gear, and I still dont, but I wouldnt care if they gave heoric resistance X to the 80 armour.Id be open to any compromise tbh to amke it a more even playing field, that just doesnt flat out give them our tso sets, to me a middle ground would be sorry you dont get the set bonouses but we will add more potency and some heroic resistance to them to make them a little bit on par.</blockquote>Where is all this PvP you find outside of warfield zerging? You find maybe a group in SBH on the way to an instance, even in exile it's either nothing out or an x2+ of Qs

Xillean

10-10-2010, 02:57 PM

And I will pubically applogise to notso for saying hes narrow minded, he isnt, I should have explained my point of view better prehaps, so sorry for that, my typing sucks as it is so im doing my best to give my point of view clearly.

10-10-2010, 02:59 PM

<cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote> Now just add Herioc Resistance X to the BG chest piece....</blockquote>You keep bringing this up as your main arguement, but you do realise that the BG set has a lot more crit bonus than the PVP set, right? enough to offset the heroic resistance almost twice. This is assuming you use the pvp set of a dps class though, as a lot of the non dps class gear had pretty much no crit bonus...

Xillean

10-10-2010, 03:01 PM

I play late at night early morning and have found 6 v6 a lot in SBH, mara, and nek, even try and arrange duels on butcher block docks. Im not saying there isnt massive zerg feasts, but the group I roll with try to avoid it when we can.heck we even go into nfp and stand there hoping for a fight, we dont bring x2 or tons of qs just our single grp, and sure we get owned when were overmatched but eh my experince has been if you look for it youll find pvp thats not a zerg fest, though admitlly it takes longer to find then just going to a wf and zerging all over the place.

Notsovilepriest

10-10-2010, 03:12 PM

<cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I play late at night early morning and have found 6 v6 a lot in SBH, mara, and nek, even try and arrange duels on butcher block docks. Im not saying there isnt massive zerg feasts, but the group I roll with try to avoid it when we can.heck we even go into nfp and stand there hoping for a fight, we dont bring x2 or tons of qs just our single grp, and sure we get owned when were overmatched but eh my experince has been if you look for it youll find pvp thats not a zerg fest, though admitlly it takes longer to find then just going to a wf and zerging all over the place.</blockquote>Mara and Nek? I'm confused how you are finding that type of PvP there. Also, going into FP either nobody attacks since they are all sitting zerging a WF, or theres x4+ worth on you, you may not have that issue at the times you play though.

Xillean

10-10-2010, 03:17 PM

Nek and mara are admittly more due to us saying in the freeport chanels our grp will be roaming around there, it never fails a freep grp will find us and attack. And yeah due to the time most likely nfp isnt to bad, but noramlly after a few or a grp attack us and we win, it starts to grow, and yeah in the end its a massive x4 or more beating on us, but we still get writs done in the process without rolling around in a qx2 or more.

Notsovilepriest

10-10-2010, 04:02 PM

<cite>Xillean@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nek and mara are admittly more due to us saying in the freeport chanels our grp will be roaming around there, it never fails a freep grp will find us and attack. And yeah due to the time most likely nfp isnt to bad, but noramlly after a few or a grp attack us and we win, it starts to grow, and yeah in the end its a massive x4 or more beating on us, but we still get writs done in the process without rolling around in a qx2 or more.</blockquote>I normally don't even see them engage until that many are around. Also, advertising only makes more pop up than 1 group typically for me.

Wigg

10-11-2010, 11:11 AM

<cite>Osik@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wigg@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote> Now just add Herioc Resistance X to the BG chest piece....</blockquote>You keep bringing this up as your main arguement, but you do realise that the BG set has a lot more crit bonus than the PVP set, right? enough to offset the heroic resistance almost twice. This is assuming you use the pvp set of a dps class though, as a lot of the non dps class gear had pretty much no crit bonus...</blockquote>And you realize that PVP players buy the BG pants and use those instead of set piece pants right? You don't compare sets side by side but pieces. The pvp chest > BG chest. PVP shoulders > x3 than the BG shoulders. PVP healms > BG helms. If you were to flip into all those pieces of gear and combine BG pieces in areas they are better, your setup owns a pve player with ease.Oh, as a caster, crit bonus sucks compared to potency which you don't get on the BG set but get on the pvp set. So those items really do own the BG set in most pieces.

Wigg

10-11-2010, 01:36 PM

Little late in the game since the update is going live tomorrow, but can the level 80 weapons have a bit of a stat boost? Maybe the pvp potency or additional blue stats added? 3 crit and 1 casting speed is kinda weak for a caster weapon.Edit: And the secondary item for mages. Having Toxic tempest proc is nice, but for some classes to sacrifice potency/crit bonus + other better stats is not worth the change. Please look to increase the Crit chance/casting speed or add another blue stat to these items.

JoarAddam

10-11-2010, 02:05 PM

I want PVP gear to work and have stats exactly like the BG equivalent in BG's only... That solves every problem I can think of. You've already got "alternate stats for everything in PVP" checkbox. I'm sorry to say it, but Ohilin will need to make one for BG, or it's never going to be fair.Yes, PVP is it's own playstyle that you should be able to enjoy. So is BG. And the BG playstyle is wholly separate from the PVP playstyle, so puhleez, drop the "If you want to PVP, you should be here".... I don't want to PVP, I want to BG, and there is a HUGE difference. If i said "I kick butt in BG so i bet i could beat the crap out of you on the PVP server" I would be rightly laughed out of the room... The other option would be to only allow BG gear in BG.... But I don't want PVP folk to have to get 3 different sets of gear. All I want is that when you and I battle, I want to have the opportunity to earn gear that stacks up on par with yours, not "PVP gets a crutch for being PVP" Is it really that hard to Understand? Is it so hard to play in BGs for you PVP folk that you need extra stats or you just can't keep up? Does the BG queue somehow work differently for you guys? WTB "BG Checkbox" on PVP gear with Velious...

Notsovilepriest

10-11-2010, 03:36 PM

<cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite><blockquote>I want PVP gear to work and have stats exactly like the BG equivalent in BG's only... That solves every problem I can think of. You've already got "alternate stats for everything in PVP" checkbox. I'm sorry to say it, but Ohilin will need to make one for BG, or it's never going to be fair.Yes, PVP is it's own playstyle that you should be able to enjoy. So is BG. And the BG playstyle is wholly separate from the PVP playstyle, so puhleez, drop the "If you want to PVP, you should be here".... I don't want to PVP, I want to BG, and there is a HUGE difference. If i said "I kick butt in BG so i bet i could beat the crap out of you on the PVP server" I would be rightly laughed out of the room... The other option would be to only allow BG gear in BG.... But I don't want PVP folk to have to get 3 different sets of gear. All I want is that when you and I battle, I want to have the opportunity to earn gear that stacks up on par with yours, not "PVP gets a crutch for being PVP" Is it really that hard to Understand? Is it so hard to play in BGs for you PVP folk that you need extra stats or you just can't keep up? Does the BG queue somehow work differently for you guys? WTB "BG Checkbox" on PVP gear with Velious...</blockquote>Funny thing, Did you know our PvP gear is the same as BG gear in T9, Meaning in turn BGs are in fact PvP. Did you know BGs use PvP damage and mechanics? Everything about them is PvP, except in the limit of number of people and you always know it's coming, and you still get rewarded for sucking.

JoarAddam

10-11-2010, 03:40 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite><blockquote>I want PVP gear to work and have stats exactly like the BG equivalent in BG's only... That solves every problem I can think of. You've already got "alternate stats for everything in PVP" checkbox. I'm sorry to say it, but Ohilin will need to make one for BG, or it's never going to be fair.Yes, PVP is it's own playstyle that you should be able to enjoy. So is BG. And the BG playstyle is wholly separate from the PVP playstyle, so puhleez, drop the "If you want to PVP, you should be here".... I don't want to PVP, I want to BG, and there is a HUGE difference. If i said "I kick butt in BG so i bet i could beat the crap out of you on the PVP server" I would be rightly laughed out of the room... The other option would be to only allow BG gear in BG.... But I don't want PVP folk to have to get 3 different sets of gear. All I want is that when you and I battle, I want to have the opportunity to earn gear that stacks up on par with yours, not "PVP gets a crutch for being PVP" Is it really that hard to Understand? Is it so hard to play in BGs for you PVP folk that you need extra stats or you just can't keep up? Does the BG queue somehow work differently for you guys? WTB "BG Checkbox" on PVP gear with Velious...</blockquote>Funny thing, Did you know our PvP gear is the same as BG gear in T9, Meaning in turn BGs are in fact PvP. Did you know BGs use PvP damage and mechanics? Everything about them is PvP, except in the limit of number of people and you always know it's coming, and you still get rewarded for sucking.</blockquote>So BG is just like PVP except totally not like PVP... gotcha.