Open Discussion : Marketplace items on Test [Archive]

Finora

09-28-2010, 02:38 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the test server is not used to test things then there is no reason for the test server.</blockquote>They don't test PVP on the PVE test server, why should they test EQ2 extended items (which is what they intend to mostly do) on the normal ruleset PVE test server. They use Test Copy for PVP testing.Test copy is there for a reason as well, and it would be a more likely place for items to get freely bought to get tested.As it stands on regular test server, if anyone purchases anything from the marketplace, it is with their own money. I know I for one am not likely to buy new items with my own cash just to see if they work. However if it were on test copy with unlimited SC I'd be more than happy to copy a char over there and test out some items now and then to see if they function the way they should.I also agree with an above poster that this question should have been asked on the testers only forums, as they are the ones who will be affected by the proposed change directly.

Gungo

09-28-2010, 02:39 PM

<cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the test server is not used to test things then there is no reason for the test server.</blockquote>Agree,Imho if test server does not want to test the eq2x items. The test server should be merged into existing servers and he ONLY true test server should be TESTCOPY. Where the eq2x marketplace items will be purchaseable (for free for testing).

kerel

09-28-2010, 02:41 PM

As bigron stated above if it going to the test server there are plans to move these items to live servers(EQ2x or exchange servers of course) this is fine as long as these items are clearly marked for USE on eq2x or exchange servers only. as far as them going to the test server as others stated above put them on the test copy server since it get wiped every so often and players can test these items while waiting on there copies to get moved over...

Xalmat

09-28-2010, 02:48 PM

You can already access all of the station cash items on Test_Copy. There's no need to have them on regular Test server imo.

Dareena

09-28-2010, 02:52 PM

Since people on Test have to buy SC items with real money already, SOE has basically treated this like a true server. The only real difference is that they are the people who have volunteered to be SOE's lab rats for any crazy (or good) ideas that a dev comes up with.EQ2X is a completely different subject. It would be pointless to "test" out those items if they actually cost people real money. Therefore it makes sense to offer them for free. But considering just how much they can change the flow of things, let alone figuring out a way to seperate Free SC from Cost SC, I would consider it just not worth the issues to add them to Test.Like others have said, place this stuff on Test Copy. That's the server which is friendly for non-Test people to use in the first place. I see that as a perfect solution to keep your Test population happy while also giving people some time to kick the tires.

Cloudrat

09-28-2010, 02:53 PM

If you actually want new items tested, I would suggest you make them free on the test server. If you truly believe as optional items that they don't affect playstyle, why not just put it all on the other servers too?I want my vet rewards on extended! Copied toons can bring theirs

Stubbswick

09-28-2010, 03:00 PM

Put them on Test-Copy, not Test, as others have suggested.My only other concern would be with these marketplace items accidentally making it to Live servers in the shuffle to push changes from Test to Live.

Soresha

09-28-2010, 03:02 PM

I'd been wondering about how we'd test EQ2X stuff myself, glad to see a discussion being started. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />I do agree though, this whole thread should be moved to the Testers Only forum.My personal view is I'm keen to be able to test stuff and don't care about the "who bought vs. earned their stuff" argument. I'm a tester first and player second. However I also accept there are people who play on Test for the quiet surroundings and pleasant little community. And their presence supports us test-addicts too, besides providing good company, so I hope we can find a solution that they're happy with.I think you need to clarify (or propose a couple of mechanisms) for exactly what "show up on Test" means because it's a loaded issue right there. If the items are available to buy, then we have to pay station cash to test them? Nuh-uh, that won't result in much testing getting done lol.Not that I imagine for one moment that SOE would actually do it... but NO WAY do we want station cash being given out to players on Test, it would create a EQ2X + benefits server and totally alter the nature of the test server's population overnight. As would any kind of direct, unlimited access to these items.So I'm guessing you've got some mechanism in mind, like perhaps allowing 1 of each item to be "purchased" for free per station account on the Test server? Or perhaps flag marketplace items as free on Test during a limited time period before they gets pushed to EQ2X live?Would they remain free, or remain as purchasable, on Test after the items go live on EQ2X?As for levelling, it hardly takes much time to level up, especially with the xp bonus on Test. However it could well help with obtaining suitable basic gear as you level up. Though to do that would require a mechanism where you can repeatedly buy items, permanently, for free... hmm. Then you're getting back into the dangerous territory of an EQ2X + benefits server.And you've got those tradeskill resources and rares for sale as well... I suspect most people would find it very hard to exercise the self control necessary and go out and harvest for hours instead of picking up a set of rares for free to make their MC stuff. If rares are freely obtainable on the marketplace that's going to change play style quite drastically I fear.Yes, I think some explanation of exactly how you'd make these items available to those on Test is needed before we get too far into this discussion!People above have already touched on this, but I'd like to ask you directly, what are the reasons for using Test instead of using the non-permanent environment on Test_copy? Is there some reason Test_copy is considered unsuitable or undesirable? Or are you hoping to get these items into regular use in an ongoing testing environment, to catch a different breed of bug than you might get from the focused testing we do when fresh patches hit the test servers?Also I'd be interested to discuss how we might go about testing EQ2X game mechanisms, not just items. E.g. restrictions on different subscription levels, unlocking of content, which items you can use, etc. I remember when we had those padlock icons appearing on our inventory bags on Test due to a bug - what when we actually want to test something like this mechanism for EQ2X? Might it be possible to toggle Test_copy to an EQ2X state, in much the same way that PvP can be toggled on/off? Or is the code base too different for that to be possible?(Edit for typos.)

Looker1010

09-28-2010, 03:02 PM

I'm extremely unhappy with the prospect of X items on Test. Test is the only place I play and I don't want to see F2P items here. I believe this is the first step toward making all of EQII F2P. If that happens, I will be forced to move to another game.Put the X items on Test Copy, and make them free so people will really get into it and use all the stuff you are offering.

Iamken

09-28-2010, 03:06 PM

I would not mind these Marketplace items being on the Test server.

drongo

09-28-2010, 03:25 PM

I do play on test, and one thing i have noticed over the years, unless one actually plays on test, one is not aware that there are 2 test servers.one with a similar structure to a live server (with no instant levelling!),the 2nd, test_copy, with a pure "flick of the switch" variable environment.for pure testing available to a larger community, where things can be thrown in, wiped, rolled back, changed, i personally think the test_copy server is more suited for that purpose.i would hate my regular testing environment on "normal" test messed up with station cash stuff - my 2 cents worth.

JoarAddam

09-28-2010, 03:26 PM

<cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the test server is not used to test things then there is no reason for the test server.</blockquote>They don't test PVP on the PVE test server, why should they test EQ2 extended items (which is what they intend to mostly do) on the normal ruleset PVE test server. They use Test Copy for PVP testing.Test copy is there for a reason as well, and it would be a more likely place for items to get freely bought to get tested.As it stands on regular test server, if anyone purchases anything from the marketplace, it is with their own money. I know I for one am not likely to buy new items with my own cash just to see if they work. However if it were on test copy with unlimited SC I'd be more than happy to copy a char over there and test out some items now and then to see if they function the way they should.I also agree with an above poster that this question should have been asked on the testers only forums, as they are the ones who will be affected by the proposed change directly.</blockquote>Were you not here when they were testing PVP on the PVE test server, like, a few weeks ago???

Barx

09-28-2010, 03:30 PM

NO to test. If you want to test the items, put them up for free on Test-Copy, don't pollute regular Test with them. Regular Test is kind of like a regular server that just gets earlier, somewhat buggier content that might get pulled. The key is regular Test is a persistant server, no buffing or the like. I don't play on Test very often, but it's a separate community.Test-Copy on the other hand is different. It's where players in general go to test specific things, so maretplace items can be one of those things (as long as there's no actual cost, of course.) Test-Copy is also wiped every now and then, making it more a true 'test' environment than the regular Test server, IMHO. If you want to test marketplace items, Test-Copy is the perfect place to do it.

Enica

09-28-2010, 04:18 PM

<cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the test server is not used to test things then there is no reason for the test server.</blockquote>They don't test PVP on the PVE test server, why should they test EQ2 extended items (which is what they intend to mostly do) on the normal ruleset PVE test server. They use Test Copy for PVP testing.Test copy is there for a reason as well, and it would be a more likely place for items to get freely bought to get tested.As it stands on regular test server, if anyone purchases anything from the marketplace, it is with their own money. I know I for one am not likely to buy new items with my own cash just to see if they work. However if it were on test copy with unlimited SC I'd be more than happy to copy a char over there and test out some items now and then to see if they function the way they should.I also agree with an above poster that this question should have been asked on the testers only forums, as they are the ones who will be affected by the proposed change directly.</blockquote>Were you not here when they were testing PVP on the PVE test server, like, a few weeks ago???</blockquote>I play on Test every week, several times a week. I don't remember any PVP stuff though.

Dareena

09-28-2010, 04:20 PM

<cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite><blockquote>Were you not here when they were testing PVP on the PVE test server, like, a few weeks ago???</blockquote>I believe that was Test Copy. That's where I remember them testing things out. Otherwise people would have to grow completely brand new toons on the Test server to playtest things like that. It's far easier to just copy your standard characters over to Test Copy for mechanics playtesting.

hellfire

09-28-2010, 04:25 PM

<cite>Finora@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the test server is not used to test things then there is no reason for the test server.</blockquote>They don't test PVP on the PVE test server</blockquote>Sure they do sometimes.........and regardless even if they didnt its totally different game mechanics in regards to PVP.EQ2X is the very same as regular server cept there are restrictions that are lifted if you pay more money.But its the exact same enviroment as regular servers and what is mostly used as a testing ground for regular servers is the test server.All 3 are the same server<live,test and eq2x> ......so the best test is to get it as close as possible to the same enviroment.....which would be the regular test server and regular test enviroment.But imo the items should be free on test server.....cause after all they are actually being tested ....on the test server./Shrug would prob get more people on test just to make sure the goodies worked befor they spent $ on em.

Yimway

09-28-2010, 04:32 PM

Test CopyI don't see how anyone could make an arguement about it impacting anyone's gameplay on test-copy.

PlaneCrazy

09-28-2010, 04:40 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the test server is not used to test things then there is no reason for the test server.</blockquote>Agree,Imho if test server does not want to test the eq2x items. The test server should be merged into existing servers and he ONLY true test server should be TESTCOPY. Where the eq2x marketplace items will be purchaseable (for free for testing).</blockquote>Some of you people are amazing. They create a server for people to test things and to entice the people to come and do proper testing they make assurances that the server will never be wiped and that people can "live" out their whole toons life there if they want. There's whole communities that have grown up on test and they are often the ONLY people who catch obscure bugs before they make it to our servers. And, I dare say, 99+% of those on Live could never be bothered to help with testing in anyway.AND THOSE PLAYERS ON TEST HAVE PAID A SUBSCRIPTION ALL THIS TIME TO DO THIS!!!So why should they have EQ2x problems dumped on them without their consent?Test server was created for the Live environment. It would be unfair in the extreme to pull the rug out from under their world just because SOE didn't have the foresight to plan for this.My suggestion.... put a mandatory poll on TEST (not Test Copy) It pops up on the first log in for each account and asks them if they want this on their server. Don't poll in the forums here as the most vocal people are rarely the majority. They have done log in polls before, so do it againAnd until then, go ahead and put the EQ2x items on test Copy. Test Copy is a true sandbox-like test server with no real commitments and open to all.

Gungo

09-28-2010, 04:49 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the test server is not used to test things then there is no reason for the test server.</blockquote>Agree,Imho if test server does not want to test the eq2x items. The test server should be merged into existing servers and he ONLY true test server should be TESTCOPY. Where the eq2x marketplace items will be purchaseable (for free for testing).</blockquote>Some of you people are amazing. They create a server for people to test things and to entice the people to come and do proper testing they make assurances that the server will never be wiped and that people can "live" out their whole toons life there if they want. There's whole communities that have grown up on test and they are often the ONLY people who catch obscure bugs before they make it to our servers. And, I dare say, 99+% of those on Live could never be bothered to help with testing in anyway.AND THOSE PLAYERS ON TEST HAVE PAID A SUBSCRIPTION ALL THIS TIME TO DO THIS!!!So why should they have EQ2x problems dumped on them without their consent?Test server was created for the Live environment. It would be unfair in the extreme to pull the rug out from under their world just because SOE didn't have the foresight to plan for this.My suggestion.... put a mandatory poll on TEST (not Test Copy) It pops up on the first log in for each account and asks them if they want this on their server. Don't poll in the forums here as the most vocal people are rarely the majority. They have done log in polls before, so do it againAnd until then, go ahead and put the EQ2x items on test Copy. Test Copy is a true sandbox-like test server with no real commitments and open to all.</blockquote>Most servers have been merged at some point. The actual test server has been ineffective for a very long time. The population alone shows that.So why should test server "have EQ2x problems dumped on them", because TEST server is SUPPOSE to TEST those problems. If you DO NOT want to test then your toon should be moved to LIVE.

PlaneCrazy

09-28-2010, 05:03 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the test server is not used to test things then there is no reason for the test server.</blockquote>Agree,Imho if test server does not want to test the eq2x items. The test server should be merged into existing servers and he ONLY true test server should be TESTCOPY. Where the eq2x marketplace items will be purchaseable (for free for testing).</blockquote>Some of you people are amazing. They create a server for people to test things and to entice the people to come and do proper testing they make assurances that the server will never be wiped and that people can "live" out their whole toons life there if they want. There's whole communities that have grown up on test and they are often the ONLY people who catch obscure bugs before they make it to our servers. And, I dare say, 99+% of those on Live could never be bothered to help with testing in anyway.AND THOSE PLAYERS ON TEST HAVE PAID A SUBSCRIPTION ALL THIS TIME TO DO THIS!!!So why should they have EQ2x problems dumped on them without their consent?Test server was created for the Live environment. It would be unfair in the extreme to pull the rug out from under their world just because SOE didn't have the foresight to plan for this.My suggestion.... put a mandatory poll on TEST (not Test Copy) It pops up on the first log in for each account and asks them if they want this on their server. Don't poll in the forums here as the most vocal people are rarely the majority. They have done log in polls before, so do it againAnd until then, go ahead and put the EQ2x items on test Copy. Test Copy is a true sandbox-like test server with no real commitments and open to all.</blockquote>Most servers have been merged at some point. The actual test server has been ineffective for a very long time. The population alone shows that.So why should test server "have EQ2x problems dumped on them", because TEST server is SUPPOSE to TEST those problems. If you DO NOT want to test then your toon should be moved to LIVE.</blockquote>So exactly how much time have you spent on Test (not test copy) helping to test this game?It's easy to spout rhetoric and tell them to make sweeping changes to a server that you have nothing invested in. The people on Test signed up there to test the LIVE game, not the F2P game. They pay the same subscription as you or I and they have a right to determine what happens with their server. They were given assurances that they would not have their toon wiped so that people would make the effort to stay and provide a linear and continual test environment. Test Copy can enevr be as effective in that way.The way I feel, I don't have a vote in this as I only test on Test Copy. I don't think anyone who plays exclusively on a Live server should either.You want to force people to test EQ2x items for SOE... then let them remain on Test subscription free. No restrictions other then they can only create toons on Test or Test-Copy. Run that by the people who actually have paid to play there all these years.

Melanchol

09-28-2010, 05:13 PM

eq2x players need to test eq2x items not us. eq2 TEST players are not some sort of community in limbo. they are LIVE PAYING SUBSCRIBERS. you promised you'd keep EQ2X 100% seperate. hold to your word for once. FFS

Notsovilepriest

09-28-2010, 05:17 PM

Wait, You're telling me people actively play a test server as basically a primary server, and still half this stuff gets launched? I'm scared

Onorem

09-28-2010, 05:22 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wait, You're telling me people actively play a test server as basically a primary server, and still half this stuff gets launched? I'm scared</blockquote>It is somewhat scary...but don't blame those on test. It's not their fault that nobody is there to act on, or maybe listen to, the feedback.

Gungo

09-28-2010, 05:24 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Bigron@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>If the test server is not used to test things then there is no reason for the test server.</blockquote>Agree,Imho if test server does not want to test the eq2x items. The test server should be merged into existing servers and he ONLY true test server should be TESTCOPY. Where the eq2x marketplace items will be purchaseable (for free for testing).</blockquote>Some of you people are amazing. They create a server for people to test things and to entice the people to come and do proper testing they make assurances that the server will never be wiped and that people can "live" out their whole toons life there if they want. There's whole communities that have grown up on test and they are often the ONLY people who catch obscure bugs before they make it to our servers. And, I dare say, 99+% of those on Live could never be bothered to help with testing in anyway.AND THOSE PLAYERS ON TEST HAVE PAID A SUBSCRIPTION ALL THIS TIME TO DO THIS!!!So why should they have EQ2x problems dumped on them without their consent?Test server was created for the Live environment. It would be unfair in the extreme to pull the rug out from under their world just because SOE didn't have the foresight to plan for this.My suggestion.... put a mandatory poll on TEST (not Test Copy) It pops up on the first log in for each account and asks them if they want this on their server. Don't poll in the forums here as the most vocal people are rarely the majority. They have done log in polls before, so do it againAnd until then, go ahead and put the EQ2x items on test Copy. Test Copy is a true sandbox-like test server with no real commitments and open to all.</blockquote>Most servers have been merged at some point. The actual test server has been ineffective for a very long time. The population alone shows that.So why should test server "have EQ2x problems dumped on them", because TEST server is SUPPOSE to TEST those problems. If you DO NOT want to test then your toon should be moved to LIVE.</blockquote>So exactly how much time have you spent on Test (not test copy) helping to test this game?It's easy to spout rhetoric and tell them to make sweeping changes to a server that you have nothing invested in. The people on Test signed up there to test the LIVE game, not the F2P game. They pay the same subscription as you or I and they have a right to determine what happens with their server. They were given assurances that they would not have their toon wiped so that people would make the effort to stay and provide a linear and continual test environment. Test Copy can enevr be as effective in that way.The way I feel, I don't have a vote in this as I only test on Test Copy. I don't think anyone who plays exclusively on a Live server should either.You want to force people to test EQ2x items for SOE... then let them remain on Test subscription free. No restrictions other then they can only create toons on Test or Test-Copy. Run that by the people who actually have paid to play there all these years.</blockquote>No one is mentioning anything to do with wiping test. Stop your fear mongering. Test as paying subscribers do not need to be treated any differently then LIVE players as such thier population is well below any standard server, as such the should be MERGED into a live server and THOSE THAT ACTUALLY want to test EQ2 will be able to TEST eq2market place items on test copy.

Melanchol

09-28-2010, 05:35 PM

i'm sure smokejumper has already decided to move forward on this, and force eq2x onto a live server full of paying subscribers. this thread is to gather information on how he can best justify his broken promise of keeping eq2x a completely seperate service. first test, then what? oasis? Antonia Bayle? how bout none-- like you promised?

kcirrot

09-28-2010, 05:41 PM

<cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>i'm sure smokejumper has already decided to move forward on this, and force eq2x onto a live server full of paying subscribers. this thread is to gather information on how he can best justify his broken promise of keeping eq2x a completely seperate service. first test, then what? oasis? Antonia Bayle? how bout none-- like you promised?</blockquote>Are you sure he promised?Promise is a strong word. I remember him saying that they intend to keep them separate right now, but I don't remember a promise.

Kamimura

09-28-2010, 05:46 PM

Keep it on Test Copy. Station cash is already free on Test Copy, so you wouldn't have to make any changes, or figure out how to add this in to Test. Allow EQ2X folks to copy over if they wish (if that is possible?), that way they can also test out things that are going to affect them. Anyone who wants to can go over to Test Copy and try out the specific items. Leave Test as it is. (Oh, and since it's been brought up a few times... Test Copy is the server that goes from PVE to PVP and back. I don't think they've ever changed the ruleset on Test.)

kcirrot

09-28-2010, 05:52 PM

<cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>eq2x players need to test eq2x items not us. eq2 TEST players are not some sort of community in limbo. they are LIVE PAYING SUBSCRIBERS. you promised you'd keep EQ2X 100% seperate. hold to your word for once. FFS </blockquote>No, he didn't. I went back and read his posts. Link where there was ever a promise to keep the services separate.ON-TOPIC: Put it on regular test, but all tested items free during the testing period. Why regular test? Because things need to be tested in a semi-regular environment. Test-Copy has too low a barrier to entry. There's no incentive to do anything other than play a bit there.I'm sorry for the folks who hate F2P items, but the Test server is for testing EQ2, it's never been warranted to be a regular server.

Gungo

09-28-2010, 05:54 PM

People do realize TEST and TEST COPY run the same BUILD.When you load the TEST client you choose which SERVER you want to log into test or test copy. I do not beleive they can run 2 seperate for test and test copy without running them on seperate servers ike eq2x vs eq2live.

Calthine

09-28-2010, 06:07 PM

Test server has always been a living, breakthing server of paying subscribers. We can't get leveling buffs there, we can't copy toons there, and such, and have always been told it's because Test has a living population. Therefore Test should not have X Marketplace stuff on it.I could live with Test Copy with free Marketplace items for testing.

PlaneCrazy

09-28-2010, 06:10 PM

<cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>eq2x players need to test eq2x items not us. eq2 TEST players are not some sort of community in limbo. they are LIVE PAYING SUBSCRIBERS. you promised you'd keep EQ2X 100% seperate. hold to your word for once. FFS </blockquote>No, he didn't. I went back and read his posts. Link where there was ever a promise to keep the services separate.ON-TOPIC: Put it on regular test, but all tested items free during the testing period. Why regular test? Because things need to be tested in a semi-regular environment. Test-Copy has too low a barrier to entry. There's no incentive to do anything other than play a bit there.I'm sorry for the folks who hate F2P items, but the Test server is for testing EQ2, it's never been warranted to be a regular server.</blockquote>Read the quotes below.. Seems pretty clear that they have said the Live service is staying UNCHANGED and that those of us who wanted to, could remain blissfully unaware they even existed..Also, the Test server was set up under the same policies and guidelines as the Live severs with the exception that the players who chose to play there would need to be aware that they would be testing fixes and content changes for the LIVE servers. They are, for the most part, the exact same clients that play LIVE and many of them, in fact, do have toons on multiple servers. And they pay a subscription, just like you or me.EQ2x is a completely different game model. It has different policies and practices and it would be unfair in the extreme to force that play style on a server that is populated by subscription paying customers, just to satisfy those who play for free.<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>There’s lots more details about all of this (and you can find the FAQ at <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/free_to_play/extended_faq" target="_blank">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...ay/extended_faq</a>), but remember…this only affects you if you want it to affect you. If you ignore EQ2X completely, then your existing subscription, game, and support are unchanged.</blockquote><cite>From the EQ2x FAQ:</cite><blockquote><div><img src="http://everquest2.com/_themes/global/images/faq/negative_circle.png" /> 3. I currently pay for a monthly subscription. How will the Extended service impact me?</div><div></div></blockquote><blockquote>It won't. Extended is an optional service that is not associated with your current EQII live game play experience. The EQII live subscription service will continue to provide all the perks it previously had, including content updates, bug fixing, new Station Cash™ items and expansions. </blockquote><blockquote>EverQuest II Extended is a completely separate gameplay service from the EverQuest II live subscription service. The server lists are not shared, it has completely separate forums, and if you don't want to be around the community that plays in the free adventure service, then there is no reason for that to ever occur. However, if you want to go try out Extended, feel free to do so. Active EQII live players can create a new account on EQII Extended for free or copy over a version of an existing EQII live character for $35.</blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>We did not change your subscription service. Everquest II Extended (EQ2X) is a completely separate service.Different forums. Different servers. If you want to keep playing the way you wish to play, then there is no difference whatsoever. You don't even have to be aware of it (well...after today anyway).We're not changing the existing EQII Live subscription service at all.</blockquote>

Geothe

09-28-2010, 06:13 PM

Make an EQ2Xtorsion test server and test out your cash shop junk there.You said you'll keep that stuff away from the live ruleset servers, so actually follow through with your word for once.

HaCkHaCkER

09-28-2010, 06:21 PM

i have played on test for about 4 years now. i honestly think it would be great to see these items on here, consider them to be a bonus, adaboy, pat on the back for the testers. yes, i could see how this "could" change the population of the test server, but i honestly dont see how it could be for the worse. sure there will be more people there, and not all of them will be there to test, but hell i have rarely tested anything accept for a few raids back in DoF and the isle of mara. since then i have just played. while it it would be ok if it stayed the same i tell you my alts would really appreciate the SC items for "testing" hehe. now i wont be restricted from MC gear because there is either no rares on the broker or i dont have the time to harvest for 7 pieces of xegonite or something. i could just "test" the MC gear or "test" the rare purchase mechanic! i would like it if the SC items came over to test and to test copy as well. when an item needs testing make that one item free for a short durration. after testing make it cost actual SC.

tkia

09-28-2010, 06:36 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>we'd like to get your feedback on whether you think it's appropriate for us to allow the EQ2X marketplace items to show up on Test.</blockquote>Seriously? You want the paying customers on Test to test the junk for your 'completely separate' free service? And no doubt you expect them to buy the items that you want testing too? No, not appropriate. Not even close.Oh, and just for the record - levelling hasn't been a hurdle in this game on any server for some years now.

Hirofortis

09-28-2010, 06:52 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We don't have a big enough population on the Test server to run two different Test servers (one for EQII Live and one for EQ2X), and we'd like to get your feedback on whether you think it's appropriate for us to allow the EQ2X marketplace items to show up on Test.Since the items are optional, it shouldn't make much of a difference in your play style, but it would allow us to test them on a real server before they go Live.Additionally, for anyone interested, they'd probably help leveling a bit, which is always somewhat of a hurdle on this lower-population server.What do you think?Thanks for your feedback.</blockquote>All I can say is if you are actually going to test them, please make sure they do not Accidentally find there way to live as seems to be the case all to often lately. Putting them on test in my opinion is just asking for errors as usually the build that goes to test ends up on live. Send it to test copy and you should be fine. Either way, don't charge for them when they are on test.

acctlc

09-28-2010, 06:54 PM

<cite>Onorem wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wait, You're telling me people actively play a test server as basically a primary server, and still half this stuff gets launched? I'm scared</blockquote>It is somewhat scary...but don't blame those on test. It's not their fault that nobody is there to act on, or maybe listen to, the feedback.</blockquote>Don't necessarily blame it on lack of reporting either. Beta xpac testers report bugs months in advance that still magically make it into the launch. Remember that little vacation the second to last named took in abandoned labs thanks to it continually respawning and folks exploiting it for drops? I /bugged it during beta!

Yimway

09-28-2010, 07:00 PM

I'm curious, why is anyone assuming the items would be free on test?They should go to test-copy and be free there. If you want open up /test copy to eq2x and let them copy there as well. Just refresh the server more frequently to discourage any permanent population forming on it.The fact that the items are there, free, and you can copy and 'test drive' them is incentive enough to get them tested.------------On a seperate note, just kill the regular test server. Its a tiny, ignored population. The entire testing process involving that server is flawed. They lack the population to test most of the current tier content, particularly when you talk about heroic and raid content. And then, what they do test and report on is far more frequently not fixed before hitting live anyway. IMO, man up and admit the test server project failed, but that is drifting off topic.

KerowynnKaotic

09-28-2010, 07:00 PM

*casts vote* .. Test Copy, yes. Reg. Test, no.

Calthine

09-28-2010, 07:12 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm curious, why is anyone assuming the items would be free on test?</blockquote>No one did. Early in the thread it was suggested they be free for testing purposes.

Whilhelmina

09-28-2010, 07:13 PM

I play roughtly 30% on Test and 70% on live since the launch of Neriak.I don't want to see EQ2X stuff on Test. Test_Copy would be a good place to test things like that.Two other things to say:- Whatever you choose, be sure that testing stuff is free - The idea of an in-game poll poping on us at first connection on Test is great, so regular players from our server could vote.

Enna

09-28-2010, 07:39 PM

<cite>Quote:</cite><blockquote>Imho if test server does not want to test the eq2x items. The test server should be merged into existing servers and he ONLY true test server should be TESTCOPY. Where the eq2x marketplace items will be purchaseable (for free for testing).</blockquote>/disagreeWe test a LOT of things on Test server.SC is certainly not the only thing that can ever be tested, for pity's sake. The above statement suggests a lack of understanding about how the Test server works.If those of us who play on Test, and help test *everything else* don't happen to want our economy or culture disrupted by an influx of SC items... this does *not* mean we are not testing things.The population of Test server are players -- we are not SOE employees. Please don't forget that, and start expecting that we should only log into that server to work, ok? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />Test is a home server to many people, who do test things. Constantly.Right now, for example, we're testing out the new Housing additions and both new and old quests for Nights of the Dead. That's a fair amount all by itself!EQ2X is also being tested on the EQ2X server. Several of us who play regularly or semi-regularly on Test have created characters on EQ2X for the purpose of testing how that works. I've sent in dozens of /bug reports myself, from the Freeport server.If you want to add EQ2X marketplace stuff to a testing environment, then Test-copy is a much better place to do that. It would allow both standard Test population to test it (by /testcopy add with Test server characters) and also allow standard Live server people to test it on copies of their own established characters.The standard, permanent Test server can continue testing all the many various things that will eventually go to standard, permanent live servers.I'm not sufficiently technical to know all details.However, since Test_Copy can go PvP without impacting Test, (PvP being a separate /distinct ruleset), it seems like it ought to be possible to have the other marketplace items available on Test_Copy and not Test, if the decision-makers at SOE feel that version of the marketplace still needs further testing beyond what it has received thus far on the Freeport server.Anyone who wants to help test the EQ2X market place can add a character or two to the EQ2X server, and test it for themselves.Besides, we still pay a subscription to play on test, same as everyone who only plays on standard Live servers. Adding the EQ2X marketplace to a standard subscription environment would not be a good mix. We wouldn't be getting Test access for free, and we do not want to lose access to the characters we have already established just because they aren't a race or class we haven't purchased in addition to our monthly subscription.And I sure don't want those pop-up commercials coming to Test! They're distracting enough on the Freeport server. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" />

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 07:59 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can already access all of the station cash items on Test_Copy. There's no need to have them on regular Test server imo.</blockquote>Except for the fact that no one actually plays on Test_Copy. (Well...not "no one", but dang few.)

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:02 PM

<cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm extremely unhappy with the prospect of X items on Test. Test is the only place I play and I don't want to see F2P items here. I believe this is the first step toward making all of EQII F2P. If that happens, I will be forced to move to another game.</blockquote>That fear is unfounded. I already stated the only reason for adding the items to Test....which is so that they actually get some live testing before appearing elsewhere.

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:06 PM

<cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>eq2x players need to test eq2x items not us. eq2 TEST players are not some sort of community in limbo. they are LIVE PAYING SUBSCRIBERS. you promised you'd keep EQ2X 100% seperate. hold to your word for once. FFS </blockquote>Please, there's no need to be so emotional. I'm here to get feedback. If I didn't want feedback on the concept, I wouldn't have posted.I realize that Test players are paying a subscription. But they are also the "early adopters" that are volunteering to help us test stuff. We could create a special EQ2X Test Server, but that seems a huge waste of resources just to test the occasional new item.We could possibly just put any new item up on the marketplace ONLY WHEN IT'S BEING TESTED...and then remove it once the item goes live.There are probably lots of compromises we could discuss to prevent Test from changing flavors too extremely.Anyone have ideas?

Onorem

09-28-2010, 08:07 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Looker1010 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm extremely unhappy with the prospect of X items on Test. Test is the only place I play and I don't want to see F2P items here. I believe this is the first step toward making all of EQII F2P. If that happens, I will be forced to move to another game.</blockquote>That fear is unfounded. I already stated the only reason for adding the items to Test....which is so that they actually get some live testing before appearing elsewhere.</blockquote>You've said quite a few things. That doesn't mean that you've clearly said exactly what you meant. Make an EQ2Xtortion test and let your free players test for you.

Cyliena

09-28-2010, 08:08 PM

TorrynWoodsrunner

09-28-2010, 08:09 PM

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:09 PM

Onorem

09-28-2010, 08:12 PM

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:13 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>so actually follow through with your word for once.</blockquote>I'd like to see a link to a time I've lied to you, please. You keep accusing me of that, but I don't think you actually have any facts. Thanks.

PlaneCrazy

09-28-2010, 08:15 PM

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:21 PM

<cite>TorrynWoodsrunner wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can already access all of the station cash items on Test_Copy. There's no need to have them on regular Test server imo.</blockquote>Except for the fact that no one actually plays on Test_Copy. (Well...not "no one", but dang few.)</blockquote>Give us an incentive to do so. Perhaps a SC reward that we can use on our regular Live servers, based on how many hours we log on Test Copy. Or LoN Choose-A-Loot cards we can claim. Right now, there's very little reason for anyone to play on Test Copy other than to get sneak peeks at upcoming content.Or would that be too close to actually paying us, rather than us paying SOE? (Serious question, not trying to be a wise-guy or anything...)</blockquote>Interesting idea (about incentives to test on Test-Copy). I'll talk to the team about that. No idea what we'd come up with, but it probably wouldn't be SC.

Geothe

09-28-2010, 08:21 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>so actually follow through with your word for once.</blockquote>I'd like to see a link to a time I've lied to you, please. You keep accusing me of that, but I don't think you actually have any facts. Thanks.</blockquote>This very thread is evidence to the matter.As already quoted here once:<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everquest II Extended (EQ2X) is a completely separate service.Different forums. Different servers. If you want to keep playing the way you wish to play, then there is no difference whatsoever. You don't even have to be aware of it (well...after today anyway).</blockquote>Completely separate?Different forums?Different Servers?Obviously save for at least one Live server now (to start with) being as you want your EQ2X junk to start on test server.

KerowynnKaotic

09-28-2010, 08:25 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>*snippedPlease, there's no need to be so emotional. I'm here to get feedback. If I didn't want feedback on the concept, I wouldn't have posted.I realize that Test players are paying a subscription. But they are also the "early adopters" that are volunteering to help us test stuff. We could create a special EQ2X Test Server, but that seems a huge waste of resources just to test the occasional new item.We could possibly just put any new item up on the marketplace ONLY WHEN IT'S BEING TESTED...and then remove it once the item goes live.There are probably lots of compromises we could discuss to prevent Test from changing flavors too extremely.Anyone have ideas?</blockquote>What exactly are you needing to have tested for SC, anyway? Rares are Rares regardless if you harvested them or if you bought stack off the SC marketplace. The Stat gear, from what I hear, is a direct copy&paste from our MasterCrafted. House items would be acceptable on either type of Server. Adv/TS/AA potions? They are all pretty much the same regardless, aren't they. Services for Class change & addition of Classes to account/etc ?? Those couldn't be tested on Test without changing their entire matrix to F2P which would probably get a bad reaction.You either don't need anything tested that couldn't just wait till LiveX or you need a TestXtenze Server.

Chikkin

09-28-2010, 08:27 PM

they can't allow Extended folks to copy to test copy because test copy requires a subscriptionbest use of your resources would be to create test server for extended that is accesible from extended, you got your target audience right there and if you give them free or even limited SC to test stuff and wipe that server often you will get your stuff tested and if peopel like it they will buy it on any other server you choose to make it available to

Kenelven

09-28-2010, 08:29 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>eq2x players need to test eq2x items not us. eq2 TEST players are not some sort of community in limbo. they are LIVE PAYING SUBSCRIBERS. you promised you'd keep EQ2X 100% seperate. hold to your word for once. FFS </blockquote>Please, there's no need to be so emotional. I'm here to get feedback. If I didn't want feedback on the concept, I wouldn't have posted.I realize that Test players are paying a subscription. But they are also the "early adopters" that are volunteering to help us test stuff. We could create a special EQ2X Test Server, but that seems a huge waste of resources just to test the occasional new item.We could possibly just put any new item up on the marketplace ONLY WHEN IT'S BEING TESTED...and then remove it once the item goes live.There are probably lots of compromises we could discuss to prevent Test from changing flavors too extremely.Anyone have ideas?</blockquote>I have a question, how would you handle it? Would it be free to the testers? Would the items that they test be removed as well as the option to get them when the go live? I dont see a reason why Test couldnt be used to test these things after all thats what Test is for. If the testers on the server really want to test to help out, they would do this.On a side note i dont understand why people have such a problem with SC and EQ2X, if this game had the subscriber numbers that a certain other well known game had you (sony) wouldnt need these items. People cant seem to grasp the fact that Sony is a company whos goal is to make money. For petes sake people need to stop saying Sony is greedy!

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:30 PM

Just to be clear, I came here to be more open and to just see whether you'd be *interested* in testing some of the new items, not to try to ram them down your throats. I thought I might get a negative reaction, and that's *precisely* why we're asking instead of just implementing.I'm a little surprised that a test server community doesn't want to try out all of the new toys, but it doesn't surprise me that expectations have solidified in some ways on this particular server over the years.I'll let the thread run for a day or two longer, just to be sure we're hearing all sides...but the feedback is obviously and strongly negative so far.If anyone has any cool compromise ideas, please present them. Those can be discussed also.

Xalmat

09-28-2010, 08:32 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to see a link to a time I've lied to you, please. You keep accusing me of that, but I don't think you actually have any facts. Thanks.</blockquote>Still waiting on the promised list of incentives for playing EQ2Live over EQ2X.

Onorem

09-28-2010, 08:33 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Interesting idea (about incentives to test on Test-Copy). I'll talk to the team about that. No idea what we'd come up with, but it probably wouldn't be SC.</blockquote>Make an EQ2X test server and run with this idea for incentives on their accounts over there...

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:34 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>so actually follow through with your word for once.</blockquote>I'd like to see a link to a time I've lied to you, please. You keep accusing me of that, but I don't think you actually have any facts. Thanks.</blockquote>This very thread is evidence to the matter.As already quoted here once:<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everquest II Extended (EQ2X) is a completely separate service.Different forums. Different servers. If you want to keep playing the way you wish to play, then there is no difference whatsoever. You don't even have to be aware of it (well...after today anyway).</blockquote>Completely separate?Different forums?Different Servers?Obviously save for at least one Live server now (to start with) being as you want your EQ2X junk to start on test server.</blockquote>Geothe...you're grasping at straws here. I came to ask about the possibility of doing something that we thought might actually be kind of cool for the Test server, but which we feared would be strongly and negatively reacted to.That's not a lie. If you think EQ2X is never, ever going to be mentioned...ever...then you're mistaken and that was never stated as a policy.

Chikkin

09-28-2010, 08:34 PM

it's not that test community doens't want them, most from test are for letting it go to test copy, we can get to test copy easilyand if test copy has unlimited SC I'd make toons and buy stuff, test it, delete, rinse and repeat, I just don't want to pay more of my real money to test stuff that might not work all that well

Cyliena

09-28-2010, 08:36 PM

<cite>Chikkin wrote:</cite><blockquote>it's not that test community doens't want them, most from test are for letting it go to test copy, we can get to test copy easilyand if test copy has unlimited SC I'd make toons and buy stuff, test it, delete, rinse and repeat, I just don't want to pay more of my real money to test stuff that might not work all that well</blockquote>This. If you want them tested by the testers and others who pop on Copy occasionally, Test Copy is the way to go. Unless you're against that option for some reason.

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:37 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to see a link to a time I've lied to you, please. You keep accusing me of that, but I don't think you actually have any facts. Thanks.</blockquote>Still waiting on the promised list of incentives for playing EQ2Live over EQ2X.</blockquote>What promised list would that be, Xalmat? I don't believe that promise has ever been made.

PlaneCrazy

09-28-2010, 08:38 PM

It's obvious SmokeJumper that you guys are between a rock and a hard place in regards to the whole EQ2x and testing thing. On one hand you have the hardware ready for a whole second F2P server (Qeynos) that is going to be needed soon judging by the number of people playing on Freeport. On the other hand, you can't afford to create a seperate test server just for Extended. Why this wasn't planned before you launched EQ2x... I dunno.So stop pretending llike the players are actually going to have a say in this. If you want to be fair with what you are going to have to do anyhow, then give all players on the regular Test server a free transfer token to a server of their choice and then make the test server a full F2P one. No subscriptions required. Open to everyone.Let's see how many F2P people will be willing to stay on Test and do your QA for you.

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:39 PM

<cite>Cyliena@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Chikkin wrote:</cite><blockquote>it's not that test community doens't want them, most from test are for letting it go to test copy, we can get to test copy easilyand if test copy has unlimited SC I'd make toons and buy stuff, test it, delete, rinse and repeat, I just don't want to pay more of my real money to test stuff that might not work all that well</blockquote>This. If you want them tested by the testers and others who pop on Copy occasionally, Test Copy is the way to go. Unless you're against that option for some reason.</blockquote>Not against it at all. It's obviously a good solution. It's just that the population over there is VERY low, so it's not much of a test. We might end up doing it though, because it's pretty clear that, of the number of folks posting so far, the reactions to having any EQ2X-specific marketplace items present is pretty negative.

Xalmat

09-28-2010, 08:40 PM

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 08:43 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's obvious SmokeJumper that you guys are between a rock and a hard place in regards to the whole EQ2x and testing thing. </blockquote>Please don't make a mountain out of a molehill. This is a convenience thing only. Our QA department does a fine job of testing the few items that are EQ2X-specific. But we like to get player reaction also.This is not a necessity request. If you never saw these items on a test server, it would be no big deal. It would just be nice to get feedback on them before they go Live and this is *one* easy way we might get that feedback.

Cyliena

09-28-2010, 08:44 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cyliena@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Chikkin wrote:</cite><blockquote>it's not that test community doens't want them, most from test are for letting it go to test copy, we can get to test copy easilyand if test copy has unlimited SC I'd make toons and buy stuff, test it, delete, rinse and repeat, I just don't want to pay more of my real money to test stuff that might not work all that well</blockquote>This. If you want them tested by the testers and others who pop on Copy occasionally, Test Copy is the way to go. Unless you're against that option for some reason.</blockquote>Not against it at all. It's obviously a good solution. It's just that the population over there is VERY low, so it's not much of a test. We might end up doing it though, because it's pretty clear that, of the number of folks posting so far, the reactions to having any EQ2X-specific marketplace items present is pretty negative.</blockquote>To be brutally honest, I think it's the best solution you're going to get out of all of this irregardless of how many days this thread stays active.

Geothe

09-28-2010, 08:48 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Geothe...you're grasping at straws here.</blockquote>Grasping at straws?No, I dont think so, not at all.I've been around this game since its start, I know how solid the "word" of those in charge truely is.Case in point... /points to sig.When the top has zero credibitility... its quite hard to put faith in the word of anyone under them.

Cyliena

09-28-2010, 08:52 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Geothe...you're grasping at straws here.</blockquote>Grasping at straws?No, I dont think so, not at all.I've been around this game since its start, I know how solid the "word" of those in charge truely is.Case in point... /points to sig.When the top has zero credibitility... its quite hard to put faith in the word of anyone under them.</blockquote>While everyone is entitled to their opinion, this is why this post is in the wrong forum... stuff like this is going to derail it completely.

PlaneCrazy

09-28-2010, 08:53 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's obvious SmokeJumper that you guys are between a rock and a hard place in regards to the whole EQ2x and testing thing. </blockquote>Please don't make a mountain out of a molehill. This is a convenience thing only. Our QA department does a fine job of testing the few items that are EQ2X-specific. But we like to get player reaction also.This is not a necessity request. If you never saw these items on a test server, it would be no big deal. It would just be nice to get feedback on them before they go Live and this is *one* easy way we might get that feedback.</blockquote>Is it really only 'Feedback' you want? Or is it maybe an effort to expose more of the Extended service benefits to more people? After all, what sort of Feedback would you expect to get on a 'Live' type server full fo players who pay the regular premium subscription?Personally, I think it's just an end run around your commitment to keep all things Extended away from the Live players.Sorry, but my "Benefit of the Doubt" jar is pretty empty these days.

Skeez1e

09-28-2010, 08:55 PM

I play on Test exclusively and I'd like to see the marketplace items on Test. A compromise might be to make the marketplace an 'option' - that you can turn on if you want to participate and off if you don't. I think, generally speaking, the folks playing on Test aren't as competitive as lots on the Live servers are. From what I've read in other threads I think it's the idea that marketplace items give someone an advantage over others that people don't like. In a non-competitive world, like Test, people take their server neighbors more at face value. Continuing in a generally speaking context - it's an 'adult' world on Test, the only time you hear drivel is in the cross server chat channel - people are far more polite, things go on the broker because people want to share, not earn a pile of plat. I've often compared it to Sunday drivers - nobody is in a hurry, they take care in their travels and they take the time to stop and smell the roses along the way. The Test population has strong opinions but they don't try and shove them down others throats. Nobody tells me how I should or shouldn't play the game - it really is a grown up world. I really do think Test is EQ2s 'best kept secret'.So, if we had an option to use the marketplace - if I want to partake in an item it's not going to be seen as interfering with anyone else's game and if someone else didn't want to use the marketplace items they wouldn't be interfering in my game.

Brook

09-28-2010, 08:55 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to be clear, I came here to be more open and to just see whether you'd be *interested* in testing some of the new items, not to try to ram them down your throats. I thought I might get a negative reaction, and that's *precisely* why we're asking instead of just implementing.I'm a little surprised that a test server community doesn't want to try out all of the new toys, but it doesn't surprise me that expectations have solidified in some ways on this particular server over the years.I'll let the thread run for a day or two longer, just to be sure we're hearing all sides...but the feedback is obviously and strongly negative so far.If anyone has any cool compromise ideas, please present them. Those can be discussed also.</blockquote>You know dude, I would be happy to get behind your idea of using test for testing out SC stuff, in fact I think its pretty stupid not to have done it in the first place, but here is my problem with the way things have been going down.You removed the starter islands and it did not matter one bit that most of us (the vocal people) did NOT want this to happen. You can try to reason it away with anything you want to but it will not change the fact it was an unwarranted change.You changed our spell effects and gave us some lame excuse it was for performance reasons, yet my game does not run any better than it did and is much less enjoyable from the cartoony sounds and lacklustre spell effect animations, hell I cant even tell if I stunned a mob so I can move behind it to do a back attack or if it was resisted. (The vocal people) did not want this put in, yet you did it anyway.Now you come here and ask us for this.Tell you what, I will vote in favor of it IF you put access to the starter islands back and give us our old spell effects animations and sound back, or at least the option to play with either the new supposedly streamlined versions or the old versions that supposedly was such a performance hit. I would ask for spirit shards back but that might be a bit much, I know the islands are still there because I have a couple of toons on them. I am willing to be happy with a compromise as I am sure quite a few other people would be so leave out the spirit shards and give us the other two things back.Also, if it is on test I want it to be FREE and not touch the amount I have in my wallet.

Maliclipse

09-28-2010, 09:08 PM

Hey smoke. I remember in the beta for SF we were promised BG's and that did not come through. However you guys put them on test copy and test. Which we tested and we got the Pretty cool house item and a cloak. I think if you could implement that for big hunks for testing that would work. Since i would love to help test items out i just cant afford real money on test to test them.

Calthine

09-28-2010, 09:10 PM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>What exactly are you needing to have tested for SC, anyway? </blockquote>I was wondering that myself.HAving read through the thread and all of Smokejumper's responses... I don't see any good reason to put the EQ2X Marketplace on Test. First: Theoretically it's all just stuff already in game. You can tell if it works by checking in Live. Second: Test is a Live server, not an Extended server. Keep them seperate.

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 09:14 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Geothe...you're grasping at straws here.</blockquote>Grasping at straws?No, I dont think so, not at all.I've been around this game since its start, I know how solid the "word" of those in charge truely is.Case in point... /points to sig.When the top has zero credibitility... its quite hard to put faith in the word of anyone under them.</blockquote>I don't really care about what other people have said to you in the past. You specifically called me a liar. I was just asking where and when I had lied.

kcirrot

09-28-2010, 09:15 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Melancholie@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>eq2x players need to test eq2x items not us. eq2 TEST players are not some sort of community in limbo. they are LIVE PAYING SUBSCRIBERS. you promised you'd keep EQ2X 100% seperate. hold to your word for once. FFS </blockquote>No, he didn't. I went back and read his posts. Link where there was ever a promise to keep the services separate.ON-TOPIC: Put it on regular test, but all tested items free during the testing period. Why regular test? Because things need to be tested in a semi-regular environment. Test-Copy has too low a barrier to entry. There's no incentive to do anything other than play a bit there.I'm sorry for the folks who hate F2P items, but the Test server is for testing EQ2, it's never been warranted to be a regular server.</blockquote>Read the quotes below.. Seems pretty clear that they have said the Live service is staying UNCHANGED and that those of us who wanted to, could remain blissfully unaware they even existed..Also, the Test server was set up under the same policies and guidelines as the Live severs with the exception that the players who chose to play there would need to be aware that they would be testing fixes and content changes for the LIVE servers. They are, for the most part, the exact same clients that play LIVE and many of them, in fact, do have toons on multiple servers. And they pay a subscription, just like you or me.EQ2x is a completely different game model. It has different policies and practices and it would be unfair in the extreme to force that play style on a server that is populated by subscription paying customers, just to satisfy those who play for free.<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>There’s lots more details about all of this (and you can find the FAQ at <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/free_to_play/extended_faq" target="_blank">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...ay/extended_faq</a>), but remember…this only affects you if you want it to affect you. If you ignore EQ2X completely, then your existing subscription, game, and support are unchanged.</blockquote><cite>From the EQ2x FAQ:</cite><blockquote><div><img src="http://everquest2.com/_themes/global/images/faq/negative_circle.png" /> 3. I currently pay for a monthly subscription. How will the Extended service impact me?</div><div></div></blockquote><blockquote>It won't. Extended is an optional service that is not associated with your current EQII live game play experience. The EQII live subscription service will continue to provide all the perks it previously had, including content updates, bug fixing, new Station Cash™ items and expansions. </blockquote><blockquote>EverQuest II Extended is a completely separate gameplay service from the EverQuest II live subscription service. The server lists are not shared, it has completely separate forums, and if you don't want to be around the community that plays in the free adventure service, then there is no reason for that to ever occur. However, if you want to go try out Extended, feel free to do so. Active EQII live players can create a new account on EQII Extended for free or copy over a version of an existing EQII live character for $35.</blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>We did not change your subscription service. Everquest II Extended (EQ2X) is a completely separate service.Different forums. Different servers. If you want to keep playing the way you wish to play, then there is no difference whatsoever. You don't even have to be aware of it (well...after today anyway).We're not changing the existing EQII Live subscription service at all.</blockquote></blockquote>Do you know what a promise is? Because there's not one statement that can be reasonably construed as a promise to keep the services separate.At the time the statements were made, yes, this was true and still is. But I see nothing in what you've posted, and not everything you've posted is attributable to SmokeJumper that is a PROMISE to keep them separate. You guys want to hate and read things into what they say, go ahead, but you're just setting yourself up to be disappointed.

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 09:16 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's obvious SmokeJumper that you guys are between a rock and a hard place in regards to the whole EQ2x and testing thing. </blockquote>Please don't make a mountain out of a molehill. This is a convenience thing only. Our QA department does a fine job of testing the few items that are EQ2X-specific. But we like to get player reaction also.This is not a necessity request. If you never saw these items on a test server, it would be no big deal. It would just be nice to get feedback on them before they go Live and this is *one* easy way we might get that feedback.</blockquote>Is it really only 'Feedback' you want? Or is it maybe an effort to expose more of the Extended service benefits to more people? After all, what sort of Feedback would you expect to get on a 'Live' type server full fo players who pay the regular premium subscription?Personally, I think it's just an end run around your commitment to keep all things Extended away from the Live players.Sorry, but my "Benefit of the Doubt" jar is pretty empty these days.</blockquote>I've already replied to this concern (which is baseless) so please refer to my earlier comments for the answer. And please do read my other replies which indicate that I'm listening about the negative reactions. Your jar may be empty, but that's okay...no ones trying to steal anything from it.

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 09:19 PM

<cite>Maliclipse wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey smoke. I remember in the beta for SF we were promised BG's and that did not come through. However you guys put them on test copy and test. Which we tested and we got the Pretty cool house item and a cloak. I think if you could implement that for big hunks for testing that would work. Since i would love to help test items out i just cant afford real money on test to test them.</blockquote>Yup. I think this falls under "incentivize folks to go check out Test-Copy". Good idea. We'll consider. Thanks!

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 09:20 PM

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>What exactly are you needing to have tested for SC, anyway? </blockquote>I was wondering that myself.HAving read through the thread and all of Smokejumper's responses... I don't see any good reason to put the EQ2X Marketplace on Test. First: Theoretically it's all just stuff already in game. You can tell if it works by checking in Live. Second: Test is a Live server, not an Extended server. Keep them seperate. </blockquote>The fact of the matter is...we don't have anything special to test right now.In the near future, we're going to be adding an item that lets you pop up a travel globe wherever you are (as long as outdoors and not in combat) so you can access the travel map. We wanted to get feedback on stuff like that, but we don't have a long list of stuff we need tested.The load would be extremely light and fairly infrequent (mostly because the number of eq2x-specific items is pretty low).

Xalmat

09-28-2010, 09:24 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>The fact of the matter is...we don't have anything special to test right now.In the near future, we're going to be adding an item that lets you pop up a travel globe wherever you are (as long as outdoors and not in combat) so you can access the travel map. We wanted to get feedback on stuff like that, but we don't have a long list of stuff we need tested.The load would be extremely light and fairly infrequent (mostly because the number of eq2x-specific items is pretty low).</blockquote>If all you're doing is testing functionality to make sure it's not broken, something like that would be perfect for the Test Copy server.What would happen if someone on regular Test bought the item, used it, and it didn't work? Would Customer Service refund the item or Station Cash, or would they say "Well you play on Test server, stuff on Test server will probably break, so no refund for you" ?

kcirrot

09-28-2010, 09:25 PM

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote>so actually follow through with your word for once.</blockquote>I'd like to see a link to a time I've lied to you, please. You keep accusing me of that, but I don't think you actually have any facts. Thanks.</blockquote>This very thread is evidence to the matter.As already quoted here once:<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everquest II Extended (EQ2X) is a completely separate service.Different forums. Different servers. If you want to keep playing the way you wish to play, then there is no difference whatsoever. You don't even have to be aware of it (well...after today anyway).</blockquote>Completely separate?Different forums?Different Servers?Obviously save for at least one Live server now (to start with) being as you want your EQ2X junk to start on test server.</blockquote>If I said at 12:00 p.m., "Ah the sun is very bright right now." You go outside at 9:43 p.m. and then scream, "YOU'RE A LIAR! The sun isn't bright." Are you right?Because you all are apparently incapable of making inferences, I'll spell this out. Smokejumper did not say that the service would FOREVER be separate. In fact, if you read through all his posts, you'll find plenty of evidence that he's left the door open to that. He hasn't lied, but you're calling him a liar and repeating it baselessly sure makes you look like one.

Cyliena

09-28-2010, 09:25 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>What exactly are you needing to have tested for SC, anyway? </blockquote>I was wondering that myself.HAving read through the thread and all of Smokejumper's responses... I don't see any good reason to put the EQ2X Marketplace on Test. First: Theoretically it's all just stuff already in game. You can tell if it works by checking in Live. Second: Test is a Live server, not an Extended server. Keep them seperate. </blockquote>The fact of the matter is...we don't have anything special to test right now.In the near future, we're going to be adding an item that lets you pop up a travel globe wherever you are (as long as outdoors and not in combat) so you can access the travel map. We wanted to get feedback on stuff like that, but we don't have a long list of stuff we need tested.The load would be extremely light and fairly infrequent (mostly because the number of eq2x-specific items is pretty low).</blockquote>Couldn't you make the items you want tested only available to certain ranks of membership on Extended during their "in-testing" phase, marked as no cost and temporary? That way they can be tested over there and people can't retain them at no cost.Just a thought.

kcirrot

09-28-2010, 09:27 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>What exactly are you needing to have tested for SC, anyway? </blockquote>I was wondering that myself.HAving read through the thread and all of Smokejumper's responses... I don't see any good reason to put the EQ2X Marketplace on Test. First: Theoretically it's all just stuff already in game. You can tell if it works by checking in Live. Second: Test is a Live server, not an Extended server. Keep them seperate. </blockquote>The fact of the matter is...we don't have anything special to test right now.In the near future, we're going to be adding an item that lets you pop up a travel globe wherever you are (as long as outdoors and not in combat) so you can access the travel map. We wanted to get feedback on stuff like that, but we don't have a long list of stuff we need tested.The load would be extremely light and fairly infrequent (mostly because the number of eq2x-specific items is pretty low).</blockquote>That's a convenience item. Just put that in the general marketplace. Stop negotiating with these forum terrorists. Nothing is going to make them happy.

Calthine

09-28-2010, 09:29 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>In the near future, we're going to be adding an item that lets you pop up a travel globe wherever you are (as long as outdoors and not in combat) so you can access the travel map. We wanted to get feedback on stuff like that, but we don't have a long list of stuff we need tested.The load would be extremely light and fairly infrequent (mostly because the number of eq2x-specific items is pretty low).</blockquote>The globe sounds neat. So, to open a whole new can of worms... will it be available to Live? Or only Extended? Is the current plan to make it Extended only? If it's going to be available to Live I see no problame with testing it on Test.

vexrm

09-28-2010, 09:29 PM

<div>You did mislead us, by your own admission. Folks are jumping on the lie train because of this. SmokeJumper wrote:<blockquote>When I was first quoted this way, I had been asked a point-blank question at E3 during a live, on-camera interview. "Will EQ2 be going Free-to-Play?"Yes, at that time, we were discussing the concept. No, we were not ready to commit to it, nor did we have any details of what we might be doing.I could not answer "no comment" because that would have spun the rumor mill out of control. So I answered with the most truthful thing I could commit to which was that "the current subscription model would remain unchanged".It was the best answer I could give at the time.I repeated that answer one time here on these forums because I had already said the same thing publicly, and it was still a truthful statement.I'm sorry if you feel misled. That was absolutely not my intention. If anything, I wanted to reassure people that the current model would be unchanged because I knew that would be the case. And it is.</blockquote>You're right, it's not a lie. However, you were flat out asked about a powder keg of a idea, knew it was coming, and answered in a way that we, the community, took as a no. It seemed to be a nice no. You were new, we were giving you the benefit of the doubt and figured you would be straight with us. I'll let you in on a secret. I like you. You seem to be able to take your successes and failures well. You seem to understand when you set of powder kegs. However, I am staring for any loopholes what so ever in your words now. That's what set off this whole lie business. In most of my posts I have tried to be careful and use the term mislead when referring to it. ----- Now that i have derailed the thread completely. If you put the items on test-copy I might go over there just to test them out. So even if I'm not on test, I'd look at Test copy out of pure curiosity.e: for fancy cross thread quoting.</div>

Soresha

09-28-2010, 09:31 PM

<cite>Cyliena@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cyliena@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Chikkin wrote:</cite><blockquote>it's not that test community doens't want them, most from test are for letting it go to test copy, we can get to test copy easilyand if test copy has unlimited SC I'd make toons and buy stuff, test it, delete, rinse and repeat, I just don't want to pay more of my real money to test stuff that might not work all that well</blockquote>This. If you want them tested by the testers and others who pop on Copy occasionally, Test Copy is the way to go. Unless you're against that option for some reason.</blockquote>Not against it at all. It's obviously a good solution. It's just that the population over there is VERY low, so it's not much of a test. We might end up doing it though, because it's pretty clear that, of the number of folks posting so far, the reactions to having any EQ2X-specific marketplace items present is pretty negative.</blockquote>To be brutally honest, I think it's the best solution you're going to get out of all of this irregardless of how many days this thread stays active.</blockquote>Agreed. I don't think it needs a complicated solution, or even extra incentives tbh. As I said in my first post, all you need to do is clearly communicate with us. Tell us when you've patched marketplace items and we can pop over from Test to Test_copy to look at them.Test_copy may not have a permanent population, but there are lots of testers who would use it when there's reason to. If you can't bring the items to Test, you can still bring the testers to the items. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Barx

09-28-2010, 09:31 PM

Calthine

09-28-2010, 09:40 PM

Oh yeah, I have more toons on Test Copy than Test. I'm over there more often for ZAM.

KerowynnKaotic

09-28-2010, 09:48 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>What exactly are you needing to have tested for SC, anyway? </blockquote>I was wondering that myself.HAving read through the thread and all of Smokejumper's responses... I don't see any good reason to put the EQ2X Marketplace on Test. First: Theoretically it's all just stuff already in game. You can tell if it works by checking in Live. Second: Test is a Live server, not an Extended server. Keep them seperate. </blockquote>The fact of the matter is...we don't have anything special to test right now.In the near future, we're going to be adding an item that lets you pop up a travel globe wherever you are (as long as outdoors and not in combat) so you can access the travel map. We wanted to get feedback on stuff like that, but we don't have a long list of stuff we need tested.The load would be extremely light and fairly infrequent (mostly because the number of eq2x-specific items is pretty low).</blockquote>oh .. Nice one and I don't mean the item you described. Well played. Waving the shiny in front of the Burynai .. *tisk* *tisk* ..But, really since as you say the items would be fairly light .. using TestCopy is still your best option, that doesn't involve actually creating a 3rd Test server. And, the unlimited SC there means people can go crazy and get addicted to one or more of their favorite 'toys' before they spend their real money on them and/or move to the F2P side.Just use the standard "Hey we have something interesting to test on TestCopy and want your opinion and we will give you a shiny title/cloak/mug of everlasting joy!" ... It's worked before, it will work again.

PlaneCrazy

09-28-2010, 09:57 PM

<cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>We did not change your subscription service. Everquest II Extended (EQ2X) is a completely separate service.Different forums. Different servers. If you want to keep playing the way you wish to play, then there is no difference whatsoever. You don't even have to be aware of it (well...after today anyway).We're not changing the existing EQII Live subscription service at all.</blockquote></blockquote>Do you know what a promise is? Because there's not one statement that can be reasonably construed as a promise to keep the services separate.At the time the statements were made, yes, this was true and still is. But I see nothing in what you've posted, and not everything you've posted is attributable to SmokeJumper that is a PROMISE to keep them separate. You guys want to hate and read things into what they say, go ahead, but you're just setting yourself up to be disappointed.</blockquote>If someone says to you "We're not changing the existing EQII Live subscription service at all" and then they do in fact change it at some point in the near future... do you accept that because the person didn't say "I promise..."? /shakes head

Gardapthia

09-28-2010, 10:08 PM

I agree that this should be on test copy for this type of thing....To get people onto test copy more often, and at a sustained rate for that matter, why not create a vetran's rewards type of system that instead of being based on years you play, that is based on how many hours you've played on test copy. The rewards can then be claimed on your server of choice.

Xalmat

09-28-2010, 10:11 PM

<cite>Gardapthia wrote:</cite><blockquote>To get people onto test copy more often</blockquote>What do you mean more often? Whenever there's something major to test in a Game Update, I'm patching my Test client and doing a /testcopy to check it out.

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 10:12 PM

<cite>vexrm wrote:</cite><blockquote><div>You did mislead us, by your own admission. Folks are jumping on the lie train because of this. SmokeJumper wrote:<blockquote>When I was first quoted this way, I had been asked a point-blank question at E3 during a live, on-camera interview. "Will EQ2 be going Free-to-Play?"Yes, at that time, we were discussing the concept. No, we were not ready to commit to it, nor did we have any details of what we might be doing.I could not answer "no comment" because that would have spun the rumor mill out of control. So I answered with the most truthful thing I could commit to which was that "the current subscription model would remain unchanged".It was the best answer I could give at the time.I repeated that answer one time here on these forums because I had already said the same thing publicly, and it was still a truthful statement.I'm sorry if you feel misled. That was absolutely not my intention. If anything, I wanted to reassure people that the current model would be unchanged because I knew that would be the case. And it is.</blockquote>You're right, it's not a lie. However, you were flat out asked about a powder keg of a idea, knew it was coming, and answered in a way that we, the community, took as a no. It seemed to be a nice no. You were new, we were giving you the benefit of the doubt and figured you would be straight with us. I'll let you in on a secret. I like you. You seem to be able to take your successes and failures well. You seem to understand when you set of powder kegs. However, I am staring for any loopholes what so ever in your words now. That's what set off this whole lie business. In most of my posts I have tried to be careful and use the term mislead when referring to it. ----- Now that i have derailed the thread completely. If you put the items on test-copy I might go over there just to test them out. So even if I'm not on test, I'd look at Test copy out of pure curiosity.e: for fancy cross thread quoting.</div></blockquote>To be honest, I hated answering that question that way also. I knew it was trouble. Unfortunately, it was the best answer I could give without either answering "no comment" (and creating a firestorm of responses and suppositions), or else providing info about a concept that we weren't even sure how we would make happen yet. (Any details I would have given at that time would have been probable to be incorrect.)So, yeah. It sucked getting point-blanked like that on camera. I did the best I could do without lying or putting my company in a bad position. Although I don't apologize for what I said, I certainly am sorry about the suppositions that followed my statement and the confusion it sowed. "Rock...meet hard place. You two enjoy each others' company, kk?"

SmokeJumper

09-28-2010, 10:14 PM

<cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kaisha@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>What exactly are you needing to have tested for SC, anyway? </blockquote>I was wondering that myself.HAving read through the thread and all of Smokejumper's responses... I don't see any good reason to put the EQ2X Marketplace on Test. First: Theoretically it's all just stuff already in game. You can tell if it works by checking in Live. Second: Test is a Live server, not an Extended server. Keep them seperate. </blockquote>The fact of the matter is...we don't have anything special to test right now.In the near future, we're going to be adding an item that lets you pop up a travel globe wherever you are (as long as outdoors and not in combat) so you can access the travel map. We wanted to get feedback on stuff like that, but we don't have a long list of stuff we need tested.The load would be extremely light and fairly infrequent (mostly because the number of eq2x-specific items is pretty low).</blockquote>oh .. Nice one and I don't mean the item you described. Well played. Waving the shiny in front of the Burynai .. *tisk* *tisk* ..But, really since as you say the items would be fairly light .. using TestCopy is still your best option, that doesn't involve actually creating a 3rd Test server. And, the unlimited SC there means people can go crazy and get addicted to one or more of their favorite 'toys' before they spend their real money on them and/or move to the F2P side.Just use the standard "Hey we have something interesting to test on TestCopy and want your opinion and we will give you a shiny title/cloak/mug of everlasting joy!" ... It's worked before, it will work again.</blockquote>lol about the shiny. Yeah, test-copy looks to be the way we'll need to go.

Yimway

09-28-2010, 10:24 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>I don't really care about what other people have said to you in the past. You specifically called me a liar. I was just asking where and when I had lied.</blockquote>You have not directly lied, though you have lied via omission, but it really isn't that important. It's really the tone you strike when addressing concerned customers coupled with the half speak that really sets people off.You should know the test crowd are some of the die hard of the die hard old school gamers, you've got a substantially hard sell with them that isn't likely to engender you or eq2x with them.I said it earlier, allow copies of eq2x to test-copy as its an unimportant server. With free items there, people can 'test drive' items and what not. Just reset the server population frequently enough that you wont have an established population on it (14-30 days?).Ultimately you are far better off with eq2x customers aiding you with testing eq2x products.*edit* - Alternatively set a max simultaneous login for test-copy at 250 players.

Gardapthia

09-28-2010, 10:25 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gardapthia wrote:</cite><blockquote>To get people onto test copy more often</blockquote>What do you mean more often? Whenever there's something major to test in a Game Update, I'm patching my Test client and doing a /testcopy to check it out.</blockquote>Smokejumper stated that the test copy population is relatively low and I provided constructive feedback to that.

Finora

09-28-2010, 10:31 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not against it at all. It's obviously a good solution. It's just that the population over there is VERY low, so it's not much of a test. We might end up doing it though, because it's pretty clear that, of the number of folks posting so far, the reactions to having any EQ2X-specific marketplace items present is pretty negative.</blockquote>Just so you know, when something that can not be tested on the regular test server is put in, people who actually test tend to go to test copy. There isn't really any constant population there because that server gets wiped. People go over there and test what needs to be tested and head on back to their home servers.I've even helped to test some PVP mechanics on test copy and I really don't care much for PVP play in my EQ type mmos.I do sincerely believe using test copy (with its endless supply of free SC) will end up with more direct testing and reactions to new X items than putting it on test where we'd have to buy it out of pocket & it wouldn't have the possiblity of any accidental test-live leaks of items intended for X servers only. Things have leaked from test to live before, so even if it's slim there is always the chance.The test_copy hours played reward system someone suggested does sound interesting though. It could certainly have potential to pull more people there than would normally spend much time there. Could certainly have the potential to pull in more of the live server players that don't normally play on either test server at all.

Thundy

09-28-2010, 10:33 PM

kcirrot

09-28-2010, 10:41 PM

<cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>kcirrot wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PlaneCrazy wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>We did not change your subscription service. Everquest II Extended (EQ2X) is a completely separate service.Different forums. Different servers. If you want to keep playing the way you wish to play, then there is no difference whatsoever. You don't even have to be aware of it (well...after today anyway).We're not changing the existing EQII Live subscription service at all.</blockquote></blockquote>Do you know what a promise is? Because there's not one statement that can be reasonably construed as a promise to keep the services separate.At the time the statements were made, yes, this was true and still is. But I see nothing in what you've posted, and not everything you've posted is attributable to SmokeJumper that is a PROMISE to keep them separate. You guys want to hate and read things into what they say, go ahead, but you're just setting yourself up to be disappointed.</blockquote>If someone says to you "We're not changing the existing EQII Live subscription service at all" and then they do in fact change it at some point in the near future... do you accept that because the person didn't say "I promise..."? /shakes head </blockquote>In a MMO, everything and I mean everything a developer says, good or bad, should be subject to the qualifier RIGHT NOW. If at the time he made the statement it was untrue, then he lied. Because plans change or evolve does not mean he lied. And no, even if he was saying that they aren't changing it in the future, that's still not a promise. A promise gives assurance that the statement will be complied with. In the law, a promise has to be sufficiently definite and supported by consideration to be binding on a person. I see nothing in that statement that binds SmokeJumper or SOE forevermore not to make changes to the live service that some hypersensitive individual will consider a violation of that person's unannounced expectations.

Hanokh2010

09-28-2010, 10:44 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Geothe...you're grasping at straws here.</blockquote>Grasping at straws?No, I dont think so, not at all.I've been around this game since its start, I know how solid the "word" of those in charge truely is.Case in point... /points to sig.When the top has zero credibitility... its quite hard to put faith in the word of anyone under them.</blockquote>I don't really care about what other people have said to you in the past. You specifically called me a liar. I was just asking where and when I had lied.</blockquote>SJ, you personally are very good at nuancing your words to really say nothing at all and to keep all your options open when expected or unexpected objections may arise. Perhaps you would consider a career in politics and let us have our game back?The royal "you" that is often used by us posters really encompasses what you say and all the others on the team that work under you say.I have 3 specific examples that I would like clarification on and personally feel that we were directly lied to:1) Where is all the lore and where are all the great quests that were promised when the Isles of Refuge were removed from the game?2) When is Game Update 57B coming out again?3) When is the switch to turn off Soga models at character creation coming?When Covic, Rothgar or Waters speak, it is you speaking also.Many forget and just go on mindlessly paying to play a diminished game. Many of us do not forget and are patiently waiting for the right time to jump off the sinking ship.

BChizzle

09-28-2010, 10:46 PM

Thanks for asking us. I think the right thing to do is throw it on test copy, also open up test copy to eq2x players if they already can't copy over.

vexrm

09-28-2010, 11:51 PM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>To be honest, I hated answering that question that way also. I knew it was trouble. Unfortunately, it was the best answer I could give without either answering "no comment" (and creating a firestorm of responses and suppositions), or else providing info about a concept that we weren't even sure how we would make happen yet. (Any details I would have given at that time would have been probable to be incorrect.)So, yeah. It sucked getting point-blanked like that on camera. I did the best I could do without lying or putting my company in a bad position. Although I don't apologize for what I said, I certainly am sorry about the suppositions that followed my statement and the confusion it sowed. "Rock...meet hard place. You two enjoy each others' company, kk?"</blockquote>No problem. You just seemed confused where it was coming from. That was the start. Then almost any misprint, missed date, misstatement built the legend.

hellfire

09-29-2010, 12:08 AM

Put a tempoary tag on the items so when you log out it goes poof. Armor/pots/wepons what ever....you get to try em out to test em then they are gone.

Kamimura

09-29-2010, 12:12 AM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can already access all of the station cash items on Test_Copy. There's no need to have them on regular Test server imo.</blockquote>Except for the fact that no one actually plays on Test_Copy. (Well...not "no one", but dang few.)</blockquote>I disagree, there are plenty enough to test these types of items out. You obviously don't see a stable and constant population on Test Copy - but you can't expect anything else from a server that gets wiped at random! No one wants to put in a ton of time or effort into a character that could be deleted at any moment. If you made the server stable, you'd see more people on it... but then, that's what you have Test itself for.However, just because you don't see the numbers constantly doesn't mean they don't come and test the new things when it's needed. Make announcements, and people will log in and test the item out. If you really don't feel enough would log in to test stuff out (and since you probably have solid stats, it may be true), then really consider putting in a reward system for players as has been mentioned. That would get more people logging into Test Copy to test out new content (and not just these things), which is never a bad thing.

Keikoku

09-29-2010, 06:08 AM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to see a link to a time I've lied to you, please. You keep accusing me of that, but I don't think you actually have any facts. Thanks.</blockquote>Still waiting on the promised list of incentives for playing EQ2Live over EQ2X.</blockquote>What promised list would that be, Xalmat? I don't believe that promise has ever been made.</blockquote>There's a comment <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=1245&topic_id=483444" target="_blank">here</a> by Amnerys where she was compiling a list of stuff to get us answers to the questions we were asking, yet 2 months later, there's still no response to these things. Admittedly, this has nothing to do with this topic, just pointing out the answer to your question that I think Xalmat might be getting at.

MrWolfie

09-29-2010, 07:07 AM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>vexrm wrote:</cite><blockquote><div>You did mislead us, by your own admission. Folks are jumping on the lie train because of this. SmokeJumper wrote:<blockquote>When I was first quoted this way, I had been asked a point-blank question at E3 during a live, on-camera interview. "Will EQ2 be going Free-to-Play?"Yes, at that time, we were discussing the concept. No, we were not ready to commit to it, nor did we have any details of what we might be doing.I could not answer "no comment" because that would have spun the rumor mill out of control. So I answered with the most truthful thing I could commit to which was that "the current subscription model would remain unchanged".It was the best answer I could give at the time.I repeated that answer one time here on these forums because I had already said the same thing publicly, and it was still a truthful statement.I'm sorry if you feel misled. That was absolutely not my intention. If anything, I wanted to reassure people that the current model would be unchanged because I knew that would be the case. And it is.</blockquote>You're right, it's not a lie. However, you were flat out asked about a powder keg of a idea, knew it was coming, and answered in a way that we, the community, took as a no. It seemed to be a nice no. You were new, we were giving you the benefit of the doubt and figured you would be straight with us. I'll let you in on a secret. I like you. You seem to be able to take your successes and failures well. You seem to understand when you set of powder kegs. However, I am staring for any loopholes what so ever in your words now. That's what set off this whole lie business. In most of my posts I have tried to be careful and use the term mislead when referring to it. ----- Now that i have derailed the thread completely. If you put the items on test-copy I might go over there just to test them out. So even if I'm not on test, I'd look at Test copy out of pure curiosity.e: for fancy cross thread quoting.</div></blockquote>To be honest, I hated answering that question that way also. I knew it was trouble. Unfortunately, it was the best answer I could give without either answering "no comment" (and creating a firestorm of responses and suppositions), or else providing info about a concept that we weren't even sure how we would make happen yet. (Any details I would have given at that time would have been probable to be incorrect.)So, yeah. It sucked getting point-blanked like that on camera. I did the best I could do without lying or putting my company in a bad position. Although I don't apologize for what I said, I certainly am sorry about the suppositions that followed my statement and the confusion it sowed."Rock...meet hard place. You two enjoy each others' company, kk?"</blockquote>the trouble that I have with this statement is that:"Unfortunately, it was the best answer I could give"is untrue. You could have said, "Yes, we are currently discussing the concept of F2P but have absolutely nothing solid one way or the other at the moment." but instead you said what amounted to "No". It's disingenuous at best - and worse, by your own admission, it was your gut instinct to not divulge the whole truth.And now, whenever you speak, your customers are thinking, "Fool me once..."

Encantador

09-29-2010, 07:44 AM

Personally I rarely call anyone a liar and then only when I am certain. However there are certainly things happening in development that go against what Smokejumper has stated. How about from Smokejumper's JULY blog .."And last, (but certainly not least), we intend to release a design overview for what the classes should be, how they should work together…and then execute on that plan."Three months and counting and no-overview, BUT changes are happening.FIRST design overview THEN execution. Not the current patch whichever class yells loudest.

Eshaac

09-29-2010, 10:57 AM

Ok, back to op. I am for placing items in market on test, but "ONLY" if they do not cost test players any real SC that comes out of our accounts. Why.. Because quite frankly although there are lots of folks who have been playing on test for years and have all kinds of accounts and crafters of every TS there is, I like many do not. I've had this same account since 1999 and no other. I can not afford to be spending RW cash on more accounts just so I can make a TS'r of every craft. And as almost all of you know, even though there are lots and lots of max crafters there is almost absolutely nothing of MC armor or anything else on brokers. And what little one Might be lucky to find is SO outrageously priced it is ridicules. Oh yeah I know, if you see something you can use just send a mail to them and blah, blah, blah. Well, why do you need a mail sent to you for something you made that some one can use/buy if you put it cheap enough on the broker? Anyway, not to get off subject, I am for anything that can help my now only lvl 51 ranger lvl and would love something to help the long time established guild I'm in lvl too.Test ; yes, Test_Copy ; yesEshaacp.s. This should have been posted on the testers only forum.

Whilhelmina

09-29-2010, 12:02 PM

(you sure know that asking in channel for an armor will always get you someone that'll craft said armor for you, right?)

Tyrus Dracofire

09-29-2010, 03:54 PM

please get somehow to have newer strongboxes and few packback slots increased.look at how many SC items on market in short time and i dont have slots to hold them, and DoV are just right 5 months away with several hundred new items.

Snowdonia

10-04-2010, 02:06 AM

Can I just make this suggestion then?If Test-Copy has such an abysmal population, why not take it away from Live and give it to EQIIX? What use is a 95% of the time vacant server?? Does that 5% REALLY justify it staying here?That would solve both problems. Test wouldn't be threatened with EQIIX items, and EQIIX would get its own testing server.It seems the most logical and practical thing to do IMO because otherwise, you guys are only wasting money on a server that rarely ever gets used.

Xalmat

10-04-2010, 02:14 AM

<cite>Snowdonia@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote>If Test-Copy has such an abysmal population, why not take it away from Live and give it to EQIIX? What use is a 95% of the time vacant server?? Does that 5% REALLY justify it staying here?</blockquote>Test-Copy is not meant to be a permanent playground like regular Test server is. In fact Test-Copy is the most disposable of the servers. Also moving it to EQ2X only would absolutely destroy many people's ability to effectively test stuff.

Yimway

10-04-2010, 04:38 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Test-Copy is not meant to be a permanent playground like regular Test server is. In fact Test-Copy is the most disposable of the servers. Also moving it to EQ2X only would absolutely destroy many people's ability to effectively test stuff.</blockquote>/agreeI do all my testing on test-copy. There is no way we could do meaningful testing of the content I care about on regular test.

Zmobie

10-04-2010, 07:31 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Test-Copy is not meant to be a permanent playground like regular Test server is. In fact Test-Copy is the most disposable of the servers. Also moving it to EQ2X only would absolutely destroy many people's ability to effectively test stuff.</blockquote>/agreeI do all my testing on test-copy. There is no way we could do meaningful testing of the content I care about on regular test.</blockquote>Frankly, from what I've read in this thread, the two server, Test and Test-Copy should be merged.I fail to see the point in having a supposed Test server in which no one tests anything, and it's just another live server.If it really is a test server, players there should be testing first and foremost, and playing and making "community" as a distant second. There are plenty of live servers to go to for community and to play the game.--Gray

Alenna

10-04-2010, 07:54 PM

<cite>Kaityn@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>Test-Copy is not meant to be a permanent playground like regular Test server is. In fact Test-Copy is the most disposable of the servers. Also moving it to EQ2X only would absolutely destroy many people's ability to effectively test stuff.</blockquote>/agreeI do all my testing on test-copy. There is no way we could do meaningful testing of the content I care about on regular test.</blockquote>Frankly, from what I've read in this thread, the two server, Test and Test-Copy should be merged.I fail to see the point in having a supposed Test server in which no one tests anything, and it's just another live server.If it really is a test server, players there should be testing first and foremost, and playing and making "community" as a distant second. There are plenty of live servers to go to for community and to play the game.--Gray</blockquote>Actually there is alot of testing going on being an Altaholic I decided to make a few permentant toons on Test and do make sure things are working properly especially when they are checking out the updates. I managed to catch a few things this time around and reported them and I know those who's home is Test would not thank you to think they aren't testing while they are playing. after going through what I went through this weekend my hats off to those who have made test a permenant and main home they go through a lot of stuff and have problems you probably won't have to since they catch and report them before it goes live.

Katz

10-04-2010, 09:46 PM

<cite>Gungo wrote:</cite><blockquote>I would suggest you get real feedback from actual test server people instead of those people who play on live servers and do not actually play on test.Eitherway my suggestion is place them on test servers and make them FREE on test-copy since that specific server gets wiped, occasionally.Making them FREE on test copy allows people to actually test them without spending cash.</blockquote>Can't you do an ingame survey on the test server? Let the folks that play there decide for themselves via the survey. I think test copy would be no problem.

Enica

10-04-2010, 11:50 PM

<cite>Nevissa@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote>You can already access all of the station cash items on Test_Copy. There's no need to have them on regular Test server imo.</blockquote>Except for the fact that no one actually plays on Test_Copy. (Well...not "no one", but dang few.)</blockquote>I disagree, there are plenty enough to test these types of items out. You obviously don't see a stable and constant population on Test Copy - but you can't expect anything else from a server that gets wiped at random! No one wants to put in a ton of time or effort into a character that could be deleted at any moment. If you made the server stable, you'd see more people on it... but then, that's what you have Test itself for.However, just because you don't see the numbers constantly doesn't mean they don't come and test the new things when it's needed. Make announcements, and people will log in and test the item out. If you really don't feel enough would log in to test stuff out (and since you probably have solid stats, it may be true), then really consider putting in a reward system for players as has been mentioned. That would get more people logging into Test Copy to test out new content (and not just these things), which is never a bad thing.</blockquote>This.I play on Test pretty regularly, but I've never played on Test Copy because it seems like it's usually PVP or BG stuff, which doesn't interest me at all. And on the times that there have been testing of new instances, raids, etc., you guys must have my work schedule, because that's when you do this kind of stuff on Test Copy. /sighAnyway, if you put X stuff on Test copy and I'm not at work, I'd most likely pop over and test it out.

TaleraRis

10-05-2010, 12:39 AM

Indabuff

10-05-2010, 11:44 AM

<cite>SmokeJumper wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, folks,We don't have a big enough population on the Test server to run two different Test servers (one for EQII Live and one for EQ2X), and we'd like to get your feedback on whether you think it's appropriate for us to allow the EQ2X marketplace items to show up on Test.Since the items are optional, it shouldn't make much of a difference in your play style, but it would allow us to test them on a real server before they go Live.Additionally, for anyone interested, they'd probably help leveling a bit, which is always somewhat of a hurdle on this lower-population server.What do you think?Thanks for your feedback.</blockquote>While I am impressed by you coming here and posting that, I think this is one of those times when you could have just said...Hey guys we dont have enough population to have two test servers so we will be testing items for both eq2 live,and extended on the test server. The fact is there is not enough, anyone who has been on test knows that, anyway its a test server and thats the only reason its there to test content. There are times when its best to just state something, and let the chips fall where they may. If there is a way to mark the extended items on the test server you may want to dothat to avoid confusion, and uneeded angry posts.