illusionist ability TW [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

acctlc

09-23-2010, 05:11 PM

+1 for making TW autocast on a pet when cast upon the player. Summoners currently have to train and cajole their Illy's to TW the pet instead of the summoner. The Illy doesn't like this for a variety of reasons including but not limited to:Complicated macro needed that constantly changes based on the summoners position in the group window, just to target pet.The requirement for the illusionist to retarget the pet at all! Any other player they hit with TW they don't lose dps by being forced to retarget.Summoners love TW on their pets because pets have harder hitting spells then we their masters. A TW on me as a conjuror is a tiny bump on dps..at most a 12-15k double attack. Therefore making it cast on both pet and summoner would not overpower us in any way, just make life easier for both summoners and the illusionists who like to keep the summoner happy by putting TW on the pet.

Haciv

09-23-2010, 06:50 PM

-1Summoners (especially Conj) have got enough love this xpac. Nerf Elemental Blast from Spell Double Attacking, and time warping pets is a non-issue.

snowli

09-23-2010, 08:14 PM

TimeWarp should be GROUPWIDE

acctlc

09-23-2010, 08:26 PM

<cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote>-1Summoners (especially Conj) have got enough love this xpac. Nerf Elemental Blast from Spell Double Attacking, and time warping pets is a non-issue.</blockquote>It wouldn't matter if EB didn't double attack. A timewarp on me instead of my pet is still just a waste of a timewarp tbh. And since summoners weren't given any *unique* utility that makes us a must have for raiding, short of Etox, our damage output needs to be competitive to warrant the raid spot.

Haciv

09-23-2010, 11:28 PM

<cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote>-1Summoners (especially Conj) have got enough love this xpac. Nerf Elemental Blast from Spell Double Attacking, and time warping pets is a non-issue.</blockquote>It wouldn't matter if EB didn't double attack. A timewarp on me instead of my pet is still just a waste of a timewarp tbh. And since summoners weren't given any *unique* utility that makes us a must have for raiding, short of Etox, our damage output needs to be competitive to warrant the raid spot.</blockquote>Conj's were given ETox (unique to summoners), Group Stoneskin (unique to mage groups), a unique Raid wide buff , 2 new pet spells (one of which is beyond OP), and more potency and crit bonus than you've ever seen on tons of gear for your pet (some of which is better for non summoners even with the pet buffs on it)...Your pet gets in on Etox, and all temp buffs like VC (essentially doubling the damage you get from those buffs), and now you want 2x the TimeWarp? When is it going to be enough buffage for summoners for them to stop asking for more? If you want to do Wizard DPS, roll a Wizard. If you want to do Assassin DPS, roll an Assassin.

biig

09-23-2010, 11:40 PM

<cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote>Conj's were given ETox (unique to summoners), Group Stoneskin (unique to mage groups), a unique Raid wide buff , 2 new pet spells (one of which is beyond OP), and more potency and crit bonus than you've ever seen on tons of gear for your pet (some of which is better for non summoners even with the pet buffs on it)...Your pet gets in on Etox, and all temp buffs like VC (essentially doubling the damage you get from those buffs), and now you want 2x the TimeWarp? When is it going to be enough buffage for summoners for them to stop asking for more? If you want to do Wizard DPS, roll a Wizard. If you want to do Assassin DPS, roll an Assassin.</blockquote>qfe

snowli

09-24-2010, 08:22 AM

<cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote>-1Summoners (especially Conj) have got enough love this xpac. Nerf Elemental Blast from Spell Double Attacking, and time warping pets is a non-issue.</blockquote>It wouldn't matter if EB didn't double attack. A timewarp on me instead of my pet is still just a waste of a timewarp tbh. And since summoners weren't given any *unique* utility that makes us a must have for raiding, short of Etox, our damage output needs to be competitive to warrant the raid spot.</blockquote>Conj's were given ETox (unique to summoners), Group Stoneskin (unique to mage groups), a unique Raid wide buff , 2 new pet spells (one of which is beyond OP), and more potency and crit bonus than you've ever seen on tons of gear for your pet (some of which is better for non summoners even with the pet buffs on it)...Your pet gets in on Etox, and all temp buffs like VC (essentially doubling the damage you get from those buffs), and now you want 2x the TimeWarp? When is it going to be enough buffage for summoners for them to stop asking for more? If you want to do Wizard DPS, roll a Wizard. If you want to do Assassin DPS, roll an Assassin.</blockquote>Honestly, this sounds like someone is annoyed that mediocre sorcerors no longer easily outparse well played summoners, as they used to for 5+ expacs.In our raid it often goes like this in dps ranking.AssyConjy 1assywizardwarlockswashconjy 2it's down to player skill, they all have roughly similar gear but some do more with it than others. I do get a bit sick of QQ about 'my class is supposed to be the top and other classes must be nerfed to accomplish that'. Our necro is way down the list, below some healers, but needs more gear though.

Kain-UK

09-24-2010, 08:28 AM

Doesn't change the fact that Time Warp or Time Compression on a sorcerer is more effective than EITHER of those abilities on a Conjy...Hell, I guarantee if you Time Warped the pet so a Conjy could get off a Double Attack Elemental Blast, a Sorcerer with the TW on them directly would still outparse the Conjy by a -lot-.I personally don't see what the problem is with this change. If the Illy used this on themselves or a Coercer, it'd work the same way. It'd benefit Necro's as well.

Boldac

09-24-2010, 02:10 PM

Take it even further...Make it actually show what it buffs...give it X% bonus to potency, crit bonus, spell double attack along with adding the casting speed/reuse speed. The percentage needs to be high enough to make it worthwhile, but not so insanely over the top that people are selling their first born for it.Make it affect the target, a pet if they have one, the illy and their pet.And I like the idea of making it a triggered buff rather than duration. 1 minute duration with 5 triggers would make it a solid buff. This way, it can still be useful if the target gets caught by a stun/stifle, etc.

Haciv

09-24-2010, 03:57 PM

<cite>snowline wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote>-1Summoners (especially Conj) have got enough love this xpac. Nerf Elemental Blast from Spell Double Attacking, and time warping pets is a non-issue.</blockquote>It wouldn't matter if EB didn't double attack. A timewarp on me instead of my pet is still just a waste of a timewarp tbh. And since summoners weren't given any *unique* utility that makes us a must have for raiding, short of Etox, our damage output needs to be competitive to warrant the raid spot.</blockquote>Conj's were given ETox (unique to summoners), Group Stoneskin (unique to mage groups), a unique Raid wide buff , 2 new pet spells (one of which is beyond OP), and more potency and crit bonus than you've ever seen on tons of gear for your pet (some of which is better for non summoners even with the pet buffs on it)...Your pet gets in on Etox, and all temp buffs like VC (essentially doubling the damage you get from those buffs), and now you want 2x the TimeWarp? When is it going to be enough buffage for summoners for them to stop asking for more? If you want to do Wizard DPS, roll a Wizard. If you want to do Assassin DPS, roll an Assassin.</blockquote>Honestly, this sounds like someone is annoyed that mediocre sorcerors no longer easily outparse well played summoners, as they used to for 5+ expacs.it's down to player skill, they all have roughly similar gear but some do more with it than others. I do get a bit sick of QQ about 'my class is supposed to be the top and other classes must be nerfed to accomplish that'. Our necro is way down the list, below some healers, but needs more gear though.</blockquote>I'm not annoyed about mediocre sorcs being beat by good summoners. I'm probably not annoyed by that because I am not a mediocre sorc. By all means, should a good summoner beat a sub-standard sorc.What I am annoyed with is the gap that is being narrowed between a good sorc and a good summoner. When that gap is closed, what's the point of being a sorc? Giving TW the ability to hit the player and the pet further narrows the DPS gap which for conj's is not needed. Necro's are a different story, but giving their pet + player TW isn't going to fix some of their core issues.

Sephr

09-24-2010, 03:58 PM

<cite>Cica wrote:</cite><blockquote>I was wondering if there is any chance when tw is casted on a player their pet would be affected by it too at the same time ? Would that be possible ?Would be lovely for more reasons <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>imo having both be TW'd at the same time would be past the line in the realms of Opd. simply make it easier as others mentioned, for the pet to get the TW.while you might only get 10-12k SDA as someone mentioned, that PLUS your pet doing w/e they are from their SDA is a much larger dps gain than anyone other class would get. why put summoners and chanters equal with if not more powerful than soercers if soercers will barely benefit?time warp in itself has plenty of problems, such as it isnt even 1/4th as useful to a warlock/necro as compared to a wiz/conjy. making timewarp more easily applied to a pet, NOT putting it on both the pet and master at once; would be one of many babysteps in the right direction when it comes to fixing timewarp and Spell Double Attack in general.

Sykosys

09-24-2010, 04:34 PM

I agree that Timewarp should be group wide, otherwise I really wish they would just scrap it altogether.

Notsovilepriest

09-24-2010, 05:01 PM

<cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arieva@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Haciv wrote:</cite><blockquote>-1Summoners (especially Conj) have got enough love this xpac. Nerf Elemental Blast from Spell Double Attacking, and time warping pets is a non-issue.</blockquote>It wouldn't matter if EB didn't double attack. A timewarp on me instead of my pet is still just a waste of a timewarp tbh. And since summoners weren't given any *unique* utility that makes us a must have for raiding, short of Etox, our damage output needs to be competitive to warrant the raid spot.</blockquote>Conj's were given ETox (unique to summoners), Group Stoneskin (unique to mage groups), a unique Raid wide buff , 2 new pet spells (one of which is beyond OP), and more potency and crit bonus than you've ever seen on tons of gear for your pet (some of which is better for non summoners even with the pet buffs on it)...Your pet gets in on Etox, and all temp buffs like VC (essentially doubling the damage you get from those buffs), and now you want 2x the TimeWarp? When is it going to be enough buffage for summoners for them to stop asking for more? If you want to do Wizard DPS, roll a Wizard. If you want to do Assassin DPS, roll an Assassin.</blockquote>Etox is good on encounters, very average in ST and falls below Ice Lash, Group stoneskin only procs when hit with a Melee hit, which is maybe 1 AE per encounter and won't even block that AE if proced, New pet attacks relates to DPS same with the potency gear, not the raid utility. The pet buff is something unique but not overly powerful enough to warrant a raid spot itself.I didn't see anyone anyone ask for 2x, The conj itself doesn't do any large hits to utilize the short buff of SDA anyones so why would it hurt? Conjs are sitting good now and good ones compete with good sorcs which is how it should be, necros are a different story. Things aren't what they used to be in this game, summoner former "Utility" is now garbage and they have nothing to bring but DPS to a raid to warrent a spot. If you can't cope with that I don't know what to tell you.I'll agree with Snowline, you sound angry summoners beat or keep up with you

acctlc

09-25-2010, 12:58 AM

I don't see how having TW hit both the summoner and the pet would narrow the gap on dps even remotely between sorcerers and summoners. The functionality is already there, the pet can benefit from TW and any summoner greatly prefers it to hit the pet now. All that was suggested was to make this easier for both parties. TW gives you time to hit one spell about. A conji trying to double EB will not even have a chance to benefit from their own TW by the time they hit the EB button for the pet. If EB isn't up then a TW on both summoner/pet will still do a tiny dps bump compared to a sorcerer. With no immunity timer on TW sorcerers are going to be the ones benefiting from a widening dps gap in their favor. They will get it more often and a smart illy will prioritize them of course. So you're really going to cry foul on a summoner who may or may not even make it into the rotation, having it on both them and their pet? Really?

slippery

09-25-2010, 01:03 AM

All this change means is that the Wizard gets time warp every single time (barring maybe conj pets for EB). It isn't a good change.

Davngr1

09-25-2010, 02:43 AM

i agree. you might as well make it a permanent buff that can be placed on one person that averages to about 5 seconds of 100% SDA every 2 mins. like 5% SDA? maybe? or like other have said, make it a group wide buff with a 2 min recast.

Boldac

09-25-2010, 08:34 AM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i agree. you might as well make it a permanent buff that can be placed on one person that averages to about 5 seconds of 100% SDA every 2 mins. like 5% SDA? maybe? or like other have said, make it a group wide buff with a 2 min recast.</blockquote>Not a bad idea Dav.Group buff that can be cast cross raid. Give it a nice bonus to potency, crit bonus, flurry and multi-attack (to be useful to melee), spell double attack, etc.Now, here's a strange idea I had. Add to time warp a 5% chance to reset your reuse timers while it's active. Each spell cast while TW is active would have a 5% chance to reset your reuse timers. So what if Time warp were to look like this:Time Warp: Duration 10 seconds, Recast 2 minutes, Target: Group targeted, Effect: Increases caster and targetted groups potency, crit bonus, flurry, multi-attack and spell double attack by 25%. While active, TW has a 5% chance for each spell/CA used to reset targets reuse timers.

Exelance

09-25-2010, 10:31 AM

I like the Idea of having TW hit the Illy, Illys pet, Target and Targets pet. i would say remove the 5 sec wait time and give it another second or 2 on the timer.

Cica

09-26-2010, 12:31 AM

Yeah i actually like the grp wide better too, and that would include the pets ofcourse <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Xelgad

09-27-2010, 03:17 PM

<div><div><div>We made this groupwide (including pets), and it should be hitting test soon. We had to increase the base reuse speed to two minutes to keep the AA in balance, but hopefully it will be much more user-friendly now.</div> <div> </div> <div>Does the five second warning on the ability not work very well? We get intermittent feedback that it's more confusing than it is helpful, but it's intended to allow the target to make last second adjustments to their casting order.</div></div></div>

dragonsbane24

09-27-2010, 03:22 PM

Is there anyway that the group can get a screen flicker or anything when it hits instead of just the red lettering in the chat log

Heelo

09-27-2010, 03:34 PM

Act is your friend =p

Latpow

09-27-2010, 03:46 PM

I like the change so far, only other thing I'd ask is for an AoE immunity or some sort of detrimental affect immunity (maybe like death march). Pretty infuriating to see the Time Warp Marco, ready your big hit... and STUN for 5 seconds.

Aule

09-27-2010, 03:57 PM

I'd hazard that a good number of mage groups run with a Druid healer, they oughta be able to see the message pop up and hit turtle shell. Should add value to anti-stun belt from Aereon and t3 forearms too, those proc's are always going. As an coercer, I already respite our wizard any time he's fiery blasting. I'd just get the illy to include me on his time warp macro and hit the wizard during this too. The illy can get one of the other dps'ers with his respite. This change should be interesting.

Geothe

09-27-2010, 04:43 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><div><div>We made this groupwide (including pets), and it should be hitting test soon. We had to increase the base reuse speed to two minutes to keep the AA in balance, but hopefully it will be much more user-friendly now.</div><div> </div><div>Does the five second warning on the ability not work very well? We get intermittent feedback that it's more confusing than it is helpful, but it's intended to allow the target to make last second adjustments to their casting order.</div></div></div></blockquote>I've always found the 5 second delay thing to be quite annoying to keep track of, especially in the midst of a raid fight.Changing TW to be group wide is a good call though.

defect9

09-27-2010, 04:53 PM

looks like my previous combo of TW and AA aoe prevent on same person (to prevent stuns and wasting it) will not be quite as effective anymore. and now people will cry foul when it always goes on either he sorcerer or the healer (not that I macro out a message about it).please make the AA aoe prevent groupwide and also on a 2 minute recast. Honestly TW and the rare squishy who was being dragged along were the only reasons to put that many points in that line (it sure made the casters happy).

Fyzzl

09-27-2010, 04:59 PM

<cite>defect9 wrote:</cite><blockquote>please make the AA aoe prevent groupwide and also on a 2 minute recast. Honestly TW and the rare squishy who was being dragged along were the only reasons to put that many points in that line (it sure made the casters happy).</blockquote>NO, NO,NO,NO!Increasing the aoe block recast makes the ability worthless. as it is now it works just fine. and do not make it your group only.

Geothe

09-27-2010, 05:03 PM

Cometar

09-27-2010, 05:11 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><div><div>We made this groupwide (including pets), and it should be hitting test soon. We had to increase the base reuse speed to two minutes to keep the AA in balance, but hopefully it will be much more user-friendly now.</div> <div> </div> <div>Does the five second warning on the ability not work very well? We get intermittent feedback that it's more confusing than it is helpful, but it's intended to allow the target to make last second adjustments to their casting order.</div></div></div></blockquote>Thank you. And I've personally never found the fine second warning all that confusing. I just made sure to include in my macro that it won't really be active for 5 seconds and people usually get the hang of it.

Xalmat

09-27-2010, 06:02 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><div><div>We made this groupwide (including pets), and it should be hitting test soon.</div></div></div></blockquote>/faint

Kain-UK

09-27-2010, 06:28 PM

<cite>Cometar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><div><div>We made this groupwide (including pets), and it should be hitting test soon. We had to increase the base reuse speed to two minutes to keep the AA in balance, but hopefully it will be much more user-friendly now.</div> <div> </div> <div>Does the five second warning on the ability not work very well? We get intermittent feedback that it's more confusing than it is helpful, but it's intended to allow the target to make last second adjustments to their casting order.</div></div></div></blockquote>Thank you. And I've personally never found the fine second warning all that confusing. I just made sure to include in my macro that it won't really be active for 5 seconds and people usually get the hang of it.</blockquote>My own personal opinion...Make it a second or two after casting that the effect triggers. I think 5 seconds is a little too long. People shouldn't have to rely on ACT to let them know when the buff is gonna run out. Though hopefully, this should now show up in the... maintained spells window I think it is.Either that or give some form of visual effect just before TW takes effect. Just make sure it's not the same as a raid mob so people don't think they need to go do something for a script. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Hina

09-27-2010, 06:43 PM

<blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><div><div>We made this groupwide (including pets), and it should be hitting test soon.</div></div></div></blockquote></blockquote>excellent change! id like it if you found a way to keep the 5 second warning as we have all learned to work with it and it works quite a bit better than no warning at all.

Cica

09-27-2010, 07:36 PM

Tehom

09-27-2010, 07:39 PM

Thank you so much, Xelgad.

Xelgad

09-27-2010, 07:47 PM

<cite>Hina@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><div><div>We made this groupwide (including pets), and it should be hitting test soon.</div></div></div></blockquote></blockquote>excellent change! id like it if you found a way to keep the 5 second warning as we have all learned to work with it and it works quite a bit better than no warning at all.</blockquote>It still has the five second delay and the red text when it actually applies. Your pets will simply have to learn how to deal without the red text though, since I doubt they know how to read. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Xalmat

09-27-2010, 08:18 PM

<cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>It still has the five second delay and the red text when it actually applies. Your pets will simply have to learn how to deal without the red text though, since I doubt they know how to read. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Tsh, I taught my pet how to do my taxes.

Truffor

09-27-2010, 08:34 PM

Anyone minds if Lifeburn becomes raid wide with no immunity, and as previous Wizard spell acted, everyone starts casting Lifeburn ? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />Ok, I want to see healers screaming...

Fyzzl

09-27-2010, 08:37 PM

How much station cash does this upgrade cost?

Davngr1

09-27-2010, 08:43 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelgad wrote:</cite><blockquote>It still has the five second delay and the red text when it actually applies. Your pets will simply have to learn how to deal without the red text though, since I doubt they know how to read. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Tsh, I taught my pet how to do my taxes.</blockquote>i don't see why not.. the pet does everything else for you conj people!

acctlc

09-27-2010, 08:45 PM

My pet and I thank you sir!Edit: And yes leave the warning period and red messages as is please

Exelance

09-27-2010, 10:10 PM

I say woot to this.

Sykosys

09-28-2010, 03:08 AM

I can say that this change makes TW far more consistant with our other temp dps buffs.

Seiffil

09-28-2010, 05:38 AM

<cite>Latpow wrote:</cite><blockquote>I like the change so far, only other thing I'd ask is for an AoE immunity or some sort of detrimental affect immunity (maybe like death march). Pretty infuriating to see the Time Warp Marco, ready your big hit... and STUN for 5 seconds.</blockquote>No. Every class has to worry about AE's causing issues with temp buffs that are up, whether its an interrupt, breaking stealth, stifle, stun, or whatever, it's something that the illy will need to pay attention to regarding when to trigger it, along with coordinating with the other classes in their group now..

snowli

09-28-2010, 05:40 AM

Good news! I still don't think spell double attack with a tiny 5 second window actually parses nearly as much off paper, in real raid settings, with raid lag and raid scripts going on, as devs think it does, and certainly nothing at all like other SF class ability temp buffs like VC & Stampede and so on, but it's a really positive sign that feedback on this lead to a change.Using TW on my illy all times possible/sensible only netted me 0.8% extra dps from all spell doubles as an average last raid.

defect9

09-28-2010, 05:55 AM

illies dont have huge nukes, so what you double on yourself is puny

Aleste

09-28-2010, 08:45 AM

<cite>Yaevin@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Doesn't change the fact that Time Warp or Time Compression on a sorcerer is more effective than EITHER of those abilities on a Conjy...Hell, I guarantee if you Time Warped the pet so a Conjy could get off a Double Attack Elemental Blast, a Sorcerer with the TW on them directly would still outparse the Conjy by a -lot-.I personally don't see what the problem is with this change. If the Illy used this on themselves or a Coercer, it'd work the same way. It'd benefit Necro's as well.</blockquote>So you want Sorc dps and your pet? seriously? I play a summoner and what your asking for is that the game be dumbed down and we are given a dps boost thats unneeded. Summoners can crank out dps this xpack and have decent utility we dont really need more.OOPS... (nm just red the devs notes on making it groupwide... )Not to derail but um dumbfire pet fixes would make them more user friendly right now they are lulz.

LivelyHound

09-28-2010, 08:53 AM

<cite>defect9 wrote:</cite><blockquote>illies dont have huge nukes, so what you double on yourself is puny</blockquote>Except that snowline posted a percentage.The percentage increase is liable to be similar across the board over extended time periods. It will certainly be higher for other classes, sorcs etc ... all in all I am interested to see just how much of an increase a wiz/war/conj/necro really gets as I have yet to see a post with that info in it.

snowli

09-28-2010, 09:41 AM

<cite>defect9 wrote:</cite><blockquote>illies dont have huge nukes, so what you double on yourself is puny</blockquote>Our best dps ability is prismatic chaos, it's 2-4 times better than the rest unless a big encounter for chromatic shower, but TW doesn't double adorned triggers so it only goes from 5-8 triggers not 10, and even then Prism relies on whoever has Prism on them doing enough melee swings to use it before it quickly expires, with raid scripts/jousts/stuns/ports/charms/ going on many triggers can expire unused.

snowli

09-28-2010, 09:48 AM

<cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>defect9 wrote:</cite><blockquote>illies dont have huge nukes, so what you double on yourself is puny</blockquote>Except that snowline posted a percentage.The percentage increase is liable to be similar across the board over extended time periods. It will certainly be higher for other classes, sorcs etc ... all in all I am interested to see just how much of an increase a wiz/war/conj/necro really gets as I have yet to see a post with that info in it.</blockquote>As illy dps climbs the percentage that timewarp does seems to get smaller generally, because much of DPS gains come from things like well co-ordinated victorious concerto's and longer adorned temp buffs etc that won't gain anything from TW.Our wizard typically got around 2-3% from ALL spell doubles, many coming from adorns, his myth, timecompression etc - so TW was a small percentage of that.My GF who's number 1 dps in our raid and sits alongside me, giving us the rarest of possiblities to endlessly discuss & micromanage the annoying single target timewarp & it's immunities gets typically around 5% from ALL spell doubles, many coming from non TW sources again etc.

MagicWand

09-28-2010, 01:33 PM

<cite>defect9 wrote:</cite><blockquote>illies dont have huge nukes, so what you double on yourself is puny</blockquote>I can parse some real decent numbers on Green AE mobs with double spell attack. And Master Strike can hit in the 20k-30k range. I am the main target for TW. I am playing the toon that most disregard as a mana bot and don't want to play.Illys may be the red headed step child of this expansion. But I always smile when people in other groups with no chanter, beg and beg for mana. Makes me feel that maybe Illys are not so bad. I can out-parse on mana regen at least. Oh wait, coecers are better at that too besides out parsing on damage too ><I wont give up on Illy yet though, however I am close to giving up on the game.

Zephanor

09-28-2010, 11:19 PM

This is interesting. I wonder if this will create aggro issues for the tank when the whole mage group, maybe two, is double blasting away all at the same time. I don't like the two minutes recast but it's appropriate to keep it in line with the current timings per individual. I'm perfectly fine with the 5 second leadup and I use macros that send the target a tell so that they have an audible heads-up when they have it and that's worked well. I try to pop POM and DR within that 5 seconds which helps add a little more damage.While this change reduces the amount of frustration surrounding just about the only useful addition with SF it still pales when considering the numerous issues surrounding this class. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

andreas2901

09-29-2010, 01:35 AM

Fukkk that stupid change. Just drop this [Removed for Content] spell. the change you actually wanted to make was a good idea, and a very small part to increase the chanters dps. Now you idiots boost the summoners even more, the dpsing healers , anyone in the [Removed for Content] illu group.I will unspec this xxxxxxx jokePS: thats just my opinion.

Notsovilepriest

09-29-2010, 01:38 AM

<cite>andreas2901 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fukkk that stupid change. Just drop this [Removed for Content] spell. the change you actually wanted to make was a good idea, and a very small part to increase the chanters dps. Now you idiots boost the summoners even more, the dpsing healers , anyone in the [Removed for Content] illu group.I will unspec this xxxxxxx jokePS: thats just my opinion.</blockquote>I suggest you roll a different class if you have a hard time pushing buttons to help DPS of your group. May I suggest assassin?

andreas2901

09-29-2010, 01:49 AM

Took quite some time to get the other tw change finally to test. Well maybe we will see this stupid thing next year in case it wasnt another lie. 5sec 2min reuse. still cant believe it .... whatever, the dps is more than a joke, the support is a fukkin joke. wish i had never bought this stupid game.

Terrius

09-29-2010, 04:53 AM

I wish Timewarp would be increased in duration, 5 seconds is still just annoying. Though I have to ask, can something be added to help Melee classes? as it stands Timewarp is useless for scouts/tanks/nondpsing healers. I play in a scout group so these changes are very Meh to me. Maybe CA DA or flurry, or something could be added to it.

Korrupt

09-29-2010, 02:05 PM

Hey Smoke, you think you could make Timewarp fully double a DoT while you're at it? Kinda ridiculous that it's so much more productive for direct damage than DoT's.

Kain-UK

09-29-2010, 06:17 PM

<cite>Aleste wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Yaevin@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Doesn't change the fact that Time Warp or Time Compression on a sorcerer is more effective than EITHER of those abilities on a Conjy...Hell, I guarantee if you Time Warped the pet so a Conjy could get off a Double Attack Elemental Blast, a Sorcerer with the TW on them directly would still outparse the Conjy by a -lot-.I personally don't see what the problem is with this change. If the Illy used this on themselves or a Coercer, it'd work the same way. It'd benefit Necro's as well.</blockquote>So you want Sorc dps and your pet? seriously? I play a summoner and what your asking for is that the game be dumbed down and we are given a dps boost thats unneeded. Summoners can crank out dps this xpack and have decent utility we dont really need more.OOPS... (nm just red the devs notes on making it groupwide... )Not to derail but um dumbfire pet fixes would make them more user friendly right now they are lulz.</blockquote>I never asked for anything.I just didn't understand all your massive QQ. I never cared if I got TW as a Conjy (Yes, I play one. No, I'm not currently a raider), just like I don't care if I never get Time Compression... though I did find it amusing I was almost keeping up with similarly geared Wizards and Warlocks who -did- have TC.So before you accuse me of something, get your facts right. Thank you. I don't think Conjy's are -that- far behind Sorcerers. Yes, I'd like more DPS... who doesn't? But I'd like the pet to factor into that for balance reasons. So basically Conjy + Pet = DPS on par with Wiz/Warlock.I'd like that, just like every other class would like more DPS. I know we won't get it, I know I won't ask for it, but I'd still like it given how DPS-centric the game has gotten.

snowli

10-01-2010, 07:45 AM

Making timewarp groupwide really doesn't require a longer reuse at all, how many people in real groups can even make use of TW?, even illy's themselve don't have the spike abilites to. 1min groupwide timewarp is still substantially less useful in real useage than other classes' sf signature abilities.

Gandahra

10-01-2010, 01:50 PM

Waiting for the test update but i agree, with lags and other, 5 sec of double spell is too small for 2min recast.....10 sec will be amazing and will have a good impact on raid's dpsNOW what about TC on Illu !!!!! go on and make it real !!!!

Showoff

10-01-2010, 09:16 PM

<cite>snowline wrote:</cite><blockquote>Making timewarp groupwide really doesn't require a longer reuse at all, how many people in real groups can even make use of TW?, even illy's themselve don't have the spike abilites to. 1min groupwide timewarp is still substantially less useful in real useage than other classes' sf signature abilities.</blockquote>^ The first proposed change seems like it'll be more beneficial for dps gains than the group wide time warp. Group wide will distribute timewarp so everyone gets it instead of stacking dps on a sorc and be much more mindless to cast but overall less beneficial.With the increase in reuse you basically get to cast tw on group members 1,2,3,4,5,6 every two minutes, where with the previous change you could cast it on group members 1,2, and then 1,2 again. (Assuming the illusionist is group member 1 and a wizard is group member 2) So essentially for group wide timewarp to be more beneficial than the first proposed change group members 3,4,5,6 must gain more from timewarp than group members 1,2. Realistically this will not happen. Two of those group members will be a healer and a bard and in many cases in raid and heroic content another member will be a tank or scout. So what it comes down to is will that other mage do more damage than a wizard? Probably not. With tw now affecting pets, a conji could easily outparse a wizard on one timewarp, but not consistently.The only case where group timewarp might be more beneficial is in a group running at least three other mages besides the illusionist. This doesn't really happen very often. And what happens when there is only one other mage in the group? Or none? You and that mage will benefit from tw half as much as the first change.Making timewarp groupwide and increasing the recast doesn't seem like an improvement from the previously proposed change. Unless it was decided the first change favored sorcerors and that was unacceptable, I don't see the reason for this.

Sephr

10-02-2010, 03:12 PM

<cite>Korrupt@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey Smoke, you think you could make Timewarp fully double a DoT while you're at it? Kinda ridiculous that it's so much more productive for direct damage than DoT's.</blockquote>+1!

LivelyHound

10-02-2010, 04:22 PM

/sigh get rid of this crap... make a proper end gameendline ability that works, there are plenty of options that maintain the support role of this spell without this rubbish. Xelgad already said in the illy forums that the spell looked good on paper but didnt work in practise. In oher words its rubbish. Stop trying to fix waht is utterly broken and just rework the ability into something that is worthwhile.

Notsovilepriest

10-02-2010, 04:35 PM

<cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite><blockquote>/sigh get rid of this crap... make a proper end gameendline ability that works, there are plenty of options that maintain the support role of this spell without this rubbish. Xelgad already said in the illy forums that the spell looked good on paper but didnt work in practise. In oher words its rubbish. Stop trying to fix waht is utterly broken and just rework the ability into something that is worthwhile.</blockquote>you mean it isn't good because you have to pay attention to be able to use it effectively? You mean not everything is WoW'iefied?

LardLord

10-02-2010, 04:38 PM

<cite>LivelyHound wrote:</cite><blockquote>/sigh get rid of this crap... make a proper end gameendline ability that works, there are plenty of options that maintain the support role of this spell without this rubbish. Xelgad already said in the illy forums that the spell looked good on paper but didnt work in practise. In oher words its rubbish. Stop trying to fix waht is utterly broken and just rework the ability into something that is worthwhile.</blockquote>Wow, some of you guys just don't know what's good for you.

TwistedFaith

10-04-2010, 09:02 AM

Gurantee that with the next expansion, we will see AA's that increase the duration of TW.

LivelyHound

10-04-2010, 01:28 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>you mean it isn't good because you have to pay attention to be able to use it effectively? You mean not everything is WoW'iefied?</blockquote>No, actually, I am perfectly capable of using this spell effectively its just the return from this spell is pathetic compared to every other endline ability given out in SF. They can keep the mechanism for what its worth just make the return useful. I was quite happy with the idea, it just sucks that you see no real tangible benefit to the raid / group when you cast it. The fact that it doesnt work properly on trigger counts, on healers, on dots, etc... means its really only beneficial to a handful of players and even that benefit is marginal.Its not hard to use. It wasn't hard to use before this grpwide change. Its not hard to watch immunities and work out a cast cycle to use with the players in your group to avoid those immunities and to hit TW when their good spells are up. Non of that is hard or bad about this spell from release. The problem has always been that as a support spell it sucks because the return from it is godawful.Get it now?Having never played wow I could care less if it was wowified. Incidentally insulting my ability to play basically means you have no real argument as to why this is good, because if you did you would have used that instead.As to the comment"Wow, some of you guys just don't know what's good for you."I could care less if it was good for me... I'm a support class, if I wanted to dps I'd play my warlock, if I wanted to tank, my paladin, heals, my warden, support, my illy oh wait no its craptastic to play. Furthermore, this spell offers naff all real support, much like the rest of illusionist support at the moment. Get a clue about the class. It has become one that has low dps, no real utility, and is a nightmare to play. Not to mention dull and boring. What was fun is now not, which is why droves of illies switched toons and every guild is desperately trying to recruit chanters.They have said they are going to fix our class, and in the time since SF launched and it was destroyed there have been 2 threads regarding what they are going to change. 1 about CC effects in raids, and this about timewarp. The timewarp changes are just meh... and the CC changes no-one belives as it has all been said before. So tell me again what's good about it?The only decent change since SF that we have had for illies was indirect and wasn't supposed to be known about yet and that is the change of DA to multi-attack. If they had a clue about fixing our class as soon as that change went to test, they would have put in a message on the illy board to the effect of "See the new changes on test guys! We havn't forgotten you!" but even that opportuninty was missed. That change is a good change for illies as it greatly benefits the class through Rapidity and IA, unlike this $*@! that is TW.Edit typos

snowli

10-04-2010, 02:40 PM

TIMEWARP either needs a) groupwide 10sec duration, 2min base reuse, or b) groupwide 5sec duration, 1min base reuse.anything weaker than the above (like the current 5sec 2min base proposal) is way offbase for what TW should be doing. In real use this craptastic ability is a joke compared to other SF signature abilities, the doubling of the base reuse to offset making it groupwide is a total /fail .It's like complaining your new race car model for this year only has a 2speed gearbox when the other race drivers car models this year have 5-7 speed gearboxes, then being told, "well we could install the 5speed gearbox, but in order to do that we'd have to halve the engine capacity from 3L to 1.5L". [Removed for Content] is the point in making a change to boost a craptastic ability if you halve it's usefulness somewhere else?