Seriously?

[mthompson84]

<p>It's getting old everyone dogging rangers for not bringing anything to a group. we arent just dps. we have the ability to debuff mobs. we have a great little CA to increase hate toward the tank. and hawk attack is invaluable for removing hate on casters. We arent assassins and we arent swashbucklers. we're rangers. we have a mix of everything. and you're [Removed for Content] right we're a mighty force. Meadirien 90 Ranger Najena</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p>Everytime I hear that phrase, I think of that movie "A mighty Wind"  did anyone else see that?</p><p>PS Bless you ranger.</p>

[Rodahn]

<p><cite>mthompson84 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's getting old everyone dogging rangers for not bringing anything to a group. we arent just dps. we have the ability to debuff mobs. we have a great little CA to increase hate toward the tank. and hawk attack is invaluable for removing hate on casters. We arent assassins and we arent swashbucklers. we're rangers. we have a mix of everything. and you're [Removed for Content] right we're a mighty force. Meadirien 90 Ranger Najena</p></blockquote><p>True, Rangers do all of the above.  However, we do them to a sub-par degree compared to other classes with the same abilities.  Sub-par to the point where we are, more often than not, excluded from end-game content and raiding.</p><p>While I applaud your enthusiasm and optimism, posts like the OP are only reinforcing SOE's refusal to do anything about our class, which is in dire need of attention. </p>

[mthompson84]

<p>OP or not im a bad mofo group or solo. Im not gonna play grabass with the devs trying to suck my way into "more". I have no trouble raiding . No ones ever said "nah we dont have room for a ranger". We arent beating assassins on the parse. Its time to get over it. Enjoy your class the way it is or betray. Those are your options. Those are gonna be your options for the next couple years. So put your purses down and start pickin up your bows.</p>

[Rodahn]

<p><cite>mthompson84 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>OP or not im a bad mofo group or solo. Im not gonna play grabass with the devs trying to suck my way into "more". I have no trouble raiding . No ones ever said "nah we dont have room for a ranger". We arent beating assassins on the parse. Its time to get over it. Enjoy your class the way it is or betray. Those are your options. Those are gonna be your options for the next couple years. So put your purses down and start pickin up your bows.</p></blockquote><p>Oooookaaaay.  Someone has obviously not done much raiding at the SF-era level.  And when I said "OP" I mean "Original Post" not "Over Powered."</p><p>You want to remain a solo or heroic instance player?  That's fine; it's your money, your prerogative.  But current, end-game raid content is not Ranger-friendly, unless you put out exceptional DPS.  And even then, you'll probably be benched a good chunk of time to make room for more-desired classes.</p><p>And saying "get over it and deal with it," is fine and dandy if you never plan to experience the end-game.  I for one want to rise above complacency, and the only way to do that is to voice to SOE that what they are currently doing with Rangers is not good enough.</p>

[mthompson84]

<p>I raid almost every weekend family permitting. and saying a ranger isnt going to see end game content is rediculous. join a guild that raids. show up, you might get to go. im not the "guild ranger" but i still get to raid.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>mthompson84 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's getting old everyone dogging rangers for not bringing anything to a group. we arent just dps. we have the ability to debuff mobs.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">So do other T1 DPS, can do it at least just as good or better while also doing more DPS.</span></p><p>we have a great little CA to increase hate toward the tank.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Which is crappy on two levels. If it works out properly the hate gain will apply to the tank, who more than likely is already at the 50% hate gain cap. But it can also apply to someone who isn't a tank and might cause more hate problems than it solves.</span></p><p>and hawk attack is invaluable for removing hate on casters.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Again, nice in theory horrible in practice. Just about ANY AE kill the thing (ask your local necro about how awesome their swarm pets are too) and IF it lives the amount it provides is small. The best thing it does was only added this xpac where if it dies, it positionally deaggros the ranger. Well, at least it did on SF beta.</span></p><p>We arent assassins and we arent swashbucklers. we're rangers. we have a mix of everything. and you're [Removed for Content] right we're a mighty force.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Jack of all (some) trades and master of none huh? Even if that's true, its not desirable in a MMO, at all. Either you do one thing really well or several things really well (overpowered imo) or your kicked to the curb. Only way I get by is because I'm an excellent player with near perfect attendance.</span>Meadirien 90 Ranger Najena</p></blockquote><p>We've said several times in groups, solo and even PvP rangers are fine, groups to a lesser extent. But when it comes to high end raiding, we are hurting. Guessing this is another case of someone confused because they don't know what they are talking about. Hit us back when you raid full time on a ranger in a top 30 raid guild. Just getting into a raid guild isn't good enough, lots of rangers pull that off. Its being in a high end raid guild and the class being desirable for well made raid setups that is the problem.</p><p>Also make no mistake, I guarantee I play a ranger better than you. I earn my keep in what is now the 10th best raiding guild world wide (not counting the russian servers).</p>

[mthompson84]

<p>so then you agree that rangers see end game content?</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p><cite>Rodahn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While I applaud your enthusiasm and optimism, posts like the OP are only reinforcing SOE's refusal to do anything about our class, which is in dire need of attention. </p></blockquote><p>Seriously dude?  You're the reason SOE doesn't take ranger's seriously.  You just got attention, how can you say they are refusing?  Rangers are, at best 4th on the list of classes most in need of attention.  Brigands are the worst off by far.  Followed by mystics, guardians, and swashies.  Rangers might be tied with shashies, since the new changes helped them out quite a bit on DPS as well.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>mthompson84 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>so then you agree that rangers see end game content?</p></blockquote><p>lol of course. Not sure what post you read or people you are talking to saying rangers <em>never</em> see end game content. But again its not a true/false problem. Its not 'rangers see end game? true = fixed' The list of classes Hoss listed see end game content as well, but I seriously doubt people who play those classes would say that they are perfectly fine. Honestly I would debate the order and basis of problems for those classes, but I do agree they need some help.</p>

[Rodahn]

<p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rodahn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>While I applaud your enthusiasm and optimism, posts like the OP are only reinforcing SOE's refusal to do anything about our class, which is in dire need of attention. </p></blockquote><p>Seriously dude?  You're the reason SOE doesn't take ranger's seriously.  You just got attention, how can you say they are refusing?  Rangers are, at best 4th on the list of classes most in need of attention.  Brigands are the worst off by far.  Followed by mystics, guardians, and swashies.  Rangers might be tied with shashies, since the new changes helped them out quite a bit on DPS as well.</p></blockquote><p>So Rangers should just be quiet and wait until we get (a non-guaranteed) part 2 of a fix that <strong>might</strong> happen months down the road?  All the while still betraying, leaving raid guilds, or (at best) sitting bench most nights?</p><p>Wow, just wow . . . </p><p>EDIT:  And I will point out that those classes you listed still get raid spots in high-end guilds long before Rangers do.</p>

[Ballzz]

<p>I'm calling BS on the OP (that's original poster not over-powered just FYI). Let's see some parses and hear what exactly you are raiding. If EQ2Players is correct you are in a guild that isn't even listed as having killed anything (including EZ-mode SF mobs) and your gear would confirm that. Almost all Legendary gear (including the lvl 77 Seb Croaking Dirk..really?) with a couple PVP items tells me your aren't raiding anything all that meaningful or in a raid force that would even be considered in the calculus of raid class balance. That being said I'll be happy to eat my words if you can provide some parses or information to the contrary. Outside of that you are merely talking out your backside.</p>

[Alenna]

<p><cite>Ballzz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I'm calling BS on the OP (that's original poster not over-powered just FYI). Let's see some parses and hear what exactly you are raiding. If EQ2Players is correct you are in a guild that isn't even listed as having killed anything (including EZ-mode SF mobs) and your gear would confirm that. Almost all Legendary gear (including the lvl 77 Seb Croaking Dirk..really?) with a couple PVP items tells me your aren't raiding anything all that meaningful or in a raid force that would even be considered in the calculus of raid class balance. That being said I'll be happy to eat my words if you can provide some parses or information to the contrary. Outside of that you are merely talking out your backside.</p></blockquote><p>I thought I smelled a troll in that OP</p>

[kartikeya]

<p>You know what's getting old? People running around claiming that class balance is something you should 'just get over' and 'stop whining about'.</p><p>Sorry, dude. I'm pretty sure if you were unable to raid due to server lag, you'd throw a fit, wouldn't you? What about a raid boss being unintentionally unkillable? Loot boxes dropping where you can't reach them? Those are issues with the game, yes? Issues with the game should probably be fixed for a better playing experience, wouldn't you agree? Guess what class balance affects? Well gosh, it's that whole playing experience thing, amazing.</p><p>Look, I'm perfectly fine with people who don't care about class balance. I'm perfectly fine with people who, for some reason, believe that ranger are A-OK hunky dory. Please stop telling the rest of us who DO care about it to shut up. Hey, you might be right, and SOE might go 'lulz, you got fixes' and not touch the class for the rest of the game's life. That doesn't mean it's not still an issue, and doesn't mean people shouldn't still bring it up. Futile or not, these are issues that need feedback, and so yeah, I'm going to feedback about them. Nothing's forcing you to read threads talking about it.</p><p>As for rangers not having any real problems in high end raids...ahahahahaha, yeah well. Yeah. I'm not even going to touch that one.</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p><cite>Rodahn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EDIT:  And I will point out that those classes you listed still get raid spots in high-end guilds long before Rangers do.</p></blockquote><p>You know who else gets raid spots in top end guilds?  Rangers who don't suck.  Think I'm lying, look at that rathgar parse thread, there were rangers representing.  I think there were more than brigands, but I can't be bothered to go back and look.</p><p><cite>kartikeya wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know what's getting old? People running around claiming that class balance is something you should 'just get over' and 'stop whining about'.</p><p>Sorry, dude. I'm pretty sure if you were unable to raid due to server lag, you'd throw a fit, wouldn't you? What about a raid boss being unintentionally unkillable? Loot boxes dropping where you can't reach them? Those are issues with the game, yes? Issues with the game should probably be fixed for a better playing experience, wouldn't you agree? Guess what class balance affects? Well gosh, it's that whole playing experience thing, amazing.</p></blockquote><p>It affects your playing experience does it?  Then why are you still a ranger.  I'm going to go out on a limb and give you a theory I have about that.  Please tell me if I'm right or wrong, and how far off I am if I'm wrong.  I think you play a ranger because you enjoy it.  To put it another way, the play experience is, enjoyable. Despite all of these game breaking problems you think you have.  Look at the numbers.  There were more rangers than any other scout IIRC the last time I saw them.  I know there were more than assassins, who are supposed to be the OP FOTM.  Don't give me any BS about how rangers are better at X and Y but lack in Z and you're only whining about Z.  Assassins suck at soloing and are no fun in large aoe fights, but we don't whine about that.  If that's what we wanted we would have rolled swashies!</p><p>Rangers need a new temp buff called "Whine"  When they use it, it should give a 1 min buff of 100 DPS, 100 CB, and 100 Pot.  And if I have my way, when it wears off, it'll have a 5 min debuff of -200 to all of those stats.  I bet rangers won't be able to stop themselves from hitting it.</p>

[Laenai]

<p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>.  Assassins suck at soloing and are no fun in large aoe fights, but we don't whine about that.  If that's what we wanted we would have rolled swashies!</blockquote><p>Honestly, its because if Assassins whined about not having anything, they'd get laughed right off the boards.</p>

[kartikeya]

<p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Rodahn wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>EDIT:  And I will point out that those classes you listed still get raid spots in high-end guilds long before Rangers do.</p></blockquote><p>You know who else gets raid spots in top end guilds?  Rangers who don't suck.  Think I'm lying, look at that rathgar parse thread, there were rangers representing.  I think there were more than brigands, but I can't be bothered to go back and look.</p><p><cite>kartikeya wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>You know what's getting old? People running around claiming that class balance is something you should 'just get over' and 'stop whining about'.</p><p>Sorry, dude. I'm pretty sure if you were unable to raid due to server lag, you'd throw a fit, wouldn't you? What about a raid boss being unintentionally unkillable? Loot boxes dropping where you can't reach them? Those are issues with the game, yes? Issues with the game should probably be fixed for a better playing experience, wouldn't you agree? Guess what class balance affects? Well gosh, it's that whole playing experience thing, amazing.</p></blockquote><p>It affects your playing experience does it?  Then why are you still a ranger.  I'm going to go out on a limb and give you a theory I have about that.  Please tell me if I'm right or wrong, and how far off I am if I'm wrong.  I think you play a ranger because you enjoy it.  To put it another way, the play experience is, enjoyable. Despite all of these game breaking problems you think you have.  Look at the numbers.  There were more rangers than any other scout IIRC the last time I saw them.  I know there were more than assassins, who are supposed to be the OP FOTM.  Don't give me any BS about how rangers are better at X and Y but lack in Z and you're only whining about Z.  Assassins suck at soloing and are no fun in large aoe fights, but we don't whine about that.  If that's what we wanted we would have rolled swashies!</p><p>Rangers need a new temp buff called "Whine"  When they use it, it should give a 1 min buff of 100 DPS, 100 CB, and 100 Pot.  And if I have my way, when it wears off, it'll have a 5 min debuff of -200 to all of those stats.  I bet rangers won't be able to stop themselves from hitting it.</p></blockquote><p>u mad bro?</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>.  Assassins suck at soloing and are no fun in large aoe fights, but we don't whine about that.  If that's what we wanted we would have rolled swashies!</blockquote><p>Honestly, its because if Assassins whined about not having anything, they'd get laughed right off the boards.</p></blockquote><p>Pretty much. I concede they aren't as good as they used to be, wizards are the tops in DPS right now from what I have seen. But I've said it before, even if rangers had 1:1 DPS performance as a class assassins would still be slightly more prefreable to rangers because of the transfer and apply poison, unless having bursts of accuracy becomes really popular as a buff.</p><p>Not being able to solo for crap and not being desired on raids are two COMPLETELY different things. Technically assassins can solo, and they don't need the consent of 20 something other players to solo badly. If you don't want to complain about not being able to solo to devs fine, but don't think for a second you are well within your right to impose that kind of thinking on others on totally different aspects of gameplay.</p><p>As for AoE fights well I never seen an assassin do badly on a AoE fight. Only with the recent changes have I been much more confident in keeping up with assassins on AoE fights.</p><p>Also one other thing, I don't go to assassin forums really, are there rangers that go over there constantly and complain about what assassins are posting about? For a class that generally says 'worry about your own class' assassin's sure do like to go in other classes domains.</p>

[Ballzz]

<p>There were Assassins pre-whining about OP Ranger AA/flurry/AE AA before the changes even went live iirc and that whining didn't even consider the fact that the changes helping Rangers would also help Assassins in more ways than one. I would find the thread but I can't be bothered to look for it tbh. Also, there is an equal amount of whining *about* Ranger whining as there is Rangers whining. Personally, I want an Assassin "whine" permanent buff that turns you into a Ranger and drops you from your raid guild to see how that goes for you. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>In all seriousness I don't get why other classes have to bash on Rangers (or any class for that matter since Rangers aren't the only ones) about wanting some improvements. Rangers have been behind other T1 DPS for a while and are in need of some fixes to make them more desirable for raiding. Get over it already!</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p><cite>Karimonster wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>.  Assassins suck at soloing and are no fun in large aoe fights, but we don't whine about that.  If that's what we wanted we would have rolled swashies!</blockquote><p>Honestly, its because if Assassins whined about not having anything, they'd get laughed right off the boards.</p></blockquote><p>That's correct.  And all because of percieved favortism by a former developer.  I say percieved only because people seem to think its still going on even after he left the company.</p><p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Pretty much. I concede they aren't as good as they used to be, wizards are the tops in DPS right now from what I have seen. But I've said it before, even if rangers had 1:1 DPS performance as a class assassins would still be slightly more prefreable to rangers because of the transfer and apply poison, unless having bursts of accuracy becomes really popular as a buff.</p></blockquote><p>Well, remember the other change that's coming for rangers.  They said they want to give you incentive to actually fight from range.  When that comes through, we'll probably be back to the days when rangers parse better on fights that matter.</p><p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As for AoE fights well I never seen an assassin do badly on a AoE fight. Only with the recent changes have I been much more confident in keeping up with assassins on AoE fights.</p></blockquote><p>Gunna call BS here.  Rangers pwned assassins on AOE fights even before the mechanics were fixed.  There was a 100k parse from a ranger on an AE fight in UD, still haven't seen one that high from an assassin.  You have better AOEs.</p><p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Also one other thing, I don't go to assassin forums really, are there rangers that go over there constantly and complain about what assassins are posting about? For a class that generally says 'worry about your own class' assassin's sure do like to go in other classes domains.</p></blockquote><p>The assassin forums are just kinda dead.  But yes, you guys go there and complain when things get lively.</p><p><cite>Ballzz wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>There were Assassins pre-whining about OP Ranger AA/flurry/AE AA before the changes even went live iirc and that whining didn't even consider the fact that the changes helping Rangers would also help Assassins in more ways than one. I would find the thread but I can't be bothered to look for it tbh. Also, there is an equal amount of whining *about* Ranger whining as there is Rangers whining. Personally, I want an Assassin "whine" permanent buff that turns you into a Ranger and drops you from your raid guild to see how that goes for you. <img src="../images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>In all seriousness I don't get why other classes have to bash on Rangers (or any class for that matter since Rangers aren't the only ones) about wanting some improvements. Rangers have been behind other T1 DPS for a while and are in need of some fixes to make them more desirable for raiding. Get over it already!</p></blockquote><p>The main one doing that was former ranger Gaige.  You can't really count him as an assassin because I strongly suspect he would rather betray back.  I think koldsteel also made a post or two.  And lets not forget that it took less than a day for rangers to start whining instead becase it was being changed for all classes. </p><p>LOL at your idea for a buff.  I bet I could keep from pressing it though.  Anyway, we're all still pretty far behind sorcerers.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>As for AoE fights well I never seen an assassin do badly on a AoE fight. Only with the recent changes have I been much more confident in keeping up with assassins on AoE fights.</p></blockquote><p>Gunna call BS here.  Rangers pwned assassins on AOE fights even before the mechanics were fixed.  There was a 100k parse from a ranger on an AE fight in UD, still haven't seen one that high from an assassin.  You have better AOEs.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Bah those 100k ones are of massive amounts of trash mobs in UD. Done that several times myself. Fun, I guess, but not 'productive'. I'd easily trade pulling off that BS off for better DPS on single targets. Long term AE fights Assassins can certainly hang in there and was due, I'm pretty sure, to the AoE pred spec. But now I would say we are generally better but I haven't exactly trounced any assassin's on AE fights, maybe by a couple thousand.</span></p></blockquote>

[GussJr]

<p><cite>mthompson84 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>It's getting old everyone dogging rangers for not bringing anything to a group. we arent just dps. we have the ability to debuff mobs. we have a great little CA to increase hate toward the tank. and hawk attack is invaluable for removing hate on casters. We arent assassins and we arent swashbucklers. we're rangers. we have a mix of everything. and you're [Removed for Content] right we're a mighty force. Meadirien 90 Ranger Najena</p></blockquote><p>"befriend animal" is pretty cool too...just saying...<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /> but tbh, i don't know what it's like to raid, so I can't really comment on that portion of the argument. just thought i'd troll a little. lol</p>

[kartikeya]

<p>You...you're bringing up those massive trash fights in UFD, aren't you? The ones where anyone with any level of AE abilities will do the most ridiculous DPS known to mankind because there's a billion mobs with low health coming in all at once? You're using that as basis for comparison?</p><p>You cried about the drake room in Halls of Fate, didn't you?</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p>No, I don't cry about anything.  And if its the room I'm thinking about, we didn't spawn those till we were done with the zone, so I just left. </p>

[kartikeya]

<p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No, I don't cry about anything.  And if its the room I'm thinking about, we didn't spawn those till we were done with the zone, so I just left. </p></blockquote><p>...Uh huh.</p>

[Sydares]

<p>Fail troll is fail.</p>

[Aaramis]

<p><cite>-=Hoss=- wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Everytime I hear that phrase, I think of that movie "A mighty Wind"  did anyone else see that?</p></blockquote><p>Wha' happen?!</p>