Nerf bat to Pestilential Rain and Torrent

[Attrikane]

<p>Does SoE strive at angering it's customers with the nerf bat?  I mean seriously.</p><p>"Pestilential Rain and Torrent no longer gain damage from attributes."</p><p>So my Torrent and Pest Rain proc's drop from 3546 to 1986.  /fail</p><p>Why don't you guys worry about making changes that are actually acceptable.....like reworking useless AA trees....fixing server lag...etc. etc.</p><p>This crap is getting rediculous.  You're running off your paying customers.</p>

[Kunaak]

<p>they gave melee AOE classes a upgrade - then just turned around and nerfed everyone else, to make up for it...</p>

[Gungo]

<p>What other item procs in game are effected by your stats?None</p>

[Dreadpatch]

For some reason I thought damage procs were always affected by attributes, but I certainly can be wrong. Basically makes procs more useless than they already were. They aren't currently a large % of dps, so I don't really understand why they would nerf it tbh. Not really overpowered in it's current state.

[Sydares]

<p>These were the only interesting procs in this expansion.</p><p>Thanks for ruining them.</p>

[Jeal]

soe giveth.. and soe taketh away... 7 months into the expansion

[Gaige]

<p>They're still the only encounter procs /shrug.  Just means I can swap out my wrist without worrying too much about it.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>Totally  a BG nerf imo <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>Next thing you know they'll change the range from the entire freaking zone to 15 meters.</p>

[Carpediem]

<p>I understand them not wanting the proc to be affected by stats but to change this 7 months into the expansion is only going to anger people. Bring the proc damage of Torrent and PR II up to 2995 and III up to 3995 if you're going to do this. That way they won't continue to get stronger and you won't be [Removed for Content] off people that have spent money or DKP on these items only to have them nerfed like crazy.</p>

[Kain-UK]

<p>They did this in TSO or RoK as well... can't remember which expansion specifically, but it was "fixed" then...</p><p>So I'm surprised stats were affecting procs in SF.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>Its not for this expansion, its for the next one, like a lot of recent and forthcoming changes are.</p><p>Never been a fan of any kind of 'procs', just more effortless DPS. Hopefully we won't see auto attack DPS go up any more either and that all this is establishing a baseline on how to adjust CA's/Spells for DPS later.</p>

[Darchon6]

<p>As a result of removing the attribute bonuses from these procs, you've effectively reduced the damage by ~40-45% depending on the player's statistics, rendering any upgrade containing the proc marginal at best.  I can only hope that you reconsider nerfing these procs as scouts such as myself will be forced to spend the next few months *<strong>regaining*</strong> what we had lost.  Due to recent upgrades, most of the scout items in the 3rd wing of Underfoot Depths contain pestilential rain III -- I was excited for a while, then you completely shattered my hopes with this nerf.  If you perform the mathematics, I would need 5 nerfed pestilential rain / torrent II procs to match 3 pre-nerfed procs of the same type.</p><p>I originally viewed these procs as an opportunity to bridge the enormous gap between scout and mage AoE dps since we generally trigger them more frequently.  Being that geared scouts are currently breaking 80k+ dps on single targets, 800 - 1k dps per torrent / pestilential rain II proc is hardly overpowering.</p><p>A better alternative to nerfing torrent / pestilential rain would be to allow attributes to modify the other damage procs in the game (wildfire, mystic havoc, toxic tempest, etc. -- cheap, undesirable procs which are only worth 200-300 dps each in their current state) while balancing the trigger rates between casters and other classes (without nerfing anyone).</p><p>SoE has a history of nerfing procs into the dirt -- please don't continue the same trend in this expansion, much less 7 months into it.  Interestingly enough, this nerf is on the same time table as the avatar gear nerfs in the last expansion.  <strong>Don't repeat the same mistakes again -- do you really hate raiders that much??  As stated before, torrent and pestilential rain were the only truly interesting procs in this expansion =(</strong></p><p>After the nerf, nobody in their right mind will trade off 3% potency for torrent II -- that's just how meaningless it'll become.  You can argue that the proc is "situationally better", but until we're able to swap gear during combat, I won't even consider the possibility.</p><p>I can already see SoE's hidden perspective on this matter -- players will moan about the nerf for a week or two then gradually forget about it and move on - no lost subscriptions in the end.  Is this how you treat your customers?</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Never been a fan of any kind of 'procs', just more effortless DPS. </p></blockquote><p>You play the wrong class if you're not a fan of proc/auto attack DPS because that is what a ranger mostly is.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Yaevin@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They did this in TSO or RoK as well... can't remember which expansion specifically, but it was "fixed" then...</p><p>So I'm surprised stats were affecting procs in SF.</p></blockquote><p>No other procs were. This was a bug that ONLY existed on these procs. In fact it says directly on these procs that they can not be modified except by direct means, but they in fact were modifiable. It was obviously a bug. The other odd thing about these procs were that the AOE procs did more damage on single targets then the single target procs like wildfire and followthrough. It never made sense and made those procs worthless in comparison.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<p><cite>Darchon6 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can already see SoE's hidden perspective on this matter -- <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><span style="font-size: large;">players will</span></strong></span> moan about the nerf for a week or two then gradually forget about it and <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><span style="font-size: large;">move on</span></strong></span> - no lost subscriptions in the end.  Is this how you treat your customers?</p></blockquote><p>^^^ THIS ^^^ </p><p>Too many people nearing the threshold where frustration > enjoyment. </p>

[StaticLex]

<p><cite>Attricane@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>This crap is getting rediculous.</p></blockquote><p>Totally!  In fact it's about as ridiculous as spelling it rediculous.</p>

[Laiina]

<p><cite>Darchon6 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As a result of removing the attribute bonuses from these procs, you've effectively reduced the damage by ~40-45% depending on the player's statistics, rendering any upgrade containing the proc marginal at best. </p></blockquote><p>Have you actually LOOKED at ACT to see how much different those procs actually make?</p><p>Even the best damage procs, such as these (pre-nerf) rarely add more than 100-150 dps under most circumstances, so not sure where you are getting that 40-45% number from.</p>

[Darchon6]

<p><cite>Laiina wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darchon6 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>As a result of removing the attribute bonuses from these procs, you've effectively reduced the damage by ~40-45% depending on the player's statistics, rendering any upgrade containing the proc marginal at best. </p></blockquote><p>Have you actually LOOKED at ACT to see how much different those procs actually make?</p><p>Even the best damage procs, such as these (pre-nerf) rarely add more than 100-150 dps under most circumstances, so not sure where you are getting that 40-45% number from.</p></blockquote><p>First of all, it's a known fact that mages trigger procs far less frequently than scouts and fighters.  A proc which is worth 150 - 200 dps for you is potentially 600+ for the forementioned archaetypes.  Also, I mean what I say when torrent / pestilential rain are being reduced by 40-45% depending on your primary attribute.  At 1722 agility on live, torrent / pestilential rain II = 3595 damage per proc as opposed to a flat 1986 damage on test = 44.75660639777469% loss to be exact...</p><p>Pestilential rain II and torrent II were worth an average of 800 ext. dps each on my last posted maalus imbued parse.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p>can you at least increase the damage on these procs?   to be more in line with the median stat of most players?   like 1500  so a 3k proc?</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Laiina wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Have you actually LOOKED at ACT to see how much different those procs actually make?</p><p>Even the best damage procs, such as these (pre-nerf) rarely add more than 100-150 dps under most circumstances, so not sure where you are getting that 40-45% number from.</p></blockquote><p><img src="http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6007/rathgar87.jpg" width="1192" height="1169" /></p><p>Looks like PR did ~2k ext for me so when you compare it to other procs like wildfire/toxic tempest etc this is going to be a pretty huge nerf.</p>

[Kizee]

<p>Thanks again SoE.  I am getting pretty tired of this.</p><p>How about a refund of the 220 marks I just spent to get the <span>Pestilential Rain wrist last week. The higher damage was the reason I got it for my assassin since it has crap for agil on it.</span></p><p>Could you at least fix crap in a timely mannor instead of months/years down the road? Jeez.</p>

[Laiina]

<p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thanks again SoE.  I am getting pretty tired of this.</p><p>How about a refund of the 220 marks I just spent to get the <span>Pestilential Rain wrist last week. The higher damage was the reason I got it for my assassin since it has crap for agil on it.</span></p><p>Could you at least fix crap in a timely mannor instead of months/years down the road? Jeez.</p></blockquote><p>That is really my problem with things like this. It has been known for quite some time that PR was "broken", and it should have been fixed long ago.</p><p>But on the other hand, my conjy has been waiting for the offensive pet stance to get fixed for months now.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Laiina wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thanks again SoE.  I am getting pretty tired of this.</p><p>How about a refund of the 220 marks I just spent to get the <span>Pestilential Rain wrist last week. The higher damage was the reason I got it for my assassin since it has crap for agil on it.</span></p><p>Could you at least fix crap in a timely mannor instead of months/years down the road? Jeez.</p></blockquote><p>That is really my problem with things like this. It has been known for quite some time that PR was "broken", and it should have been fixed long ago.</p><p>But on the other hand, my conjy has been waiting for the offensive pet stance to get fixed for months now.</p></blockquote><p>The thing is.... I didn't know it was broken and I do a fair share of reading on boards too.</p><p>Yes, I wondered why it was higher damage than all the other procs but figured it has been 7 months... surely it would have been fixed by now if it wasn't intended.</p><p>Sucks since I don't do many instances and it has taken me the 7 months to get 220 marks. To have them "wasted" like this really ticks me off.</p>

[JenoJeno]

<p><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Darchon6 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I can already see SoE's hidden perspective on this matter -- <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><span style="font-size: large;">players will</span></strong></span> moan about the nerf for a week or two then gradually forget about it and <span style="color: #ff0000;"><strong><span style="font-size: large;">move on</span></strong></span> - no lost subscriptions in the end.  Is this how you treat your customers?</p></blockquote><p>^^^ THIS ^^^ </p><p>Too many people nearing the threshold where frustration > enjoyment. </p></blockquote><p>Yup. SOE is wasting their time on things that don't need fixing, break things that were working fine, and worry about other random things before working on what matters. (AKA ... the palace bridge)</p><p>I vote SOE some new dev management</p>

[Brildean]

<p>Next nerf will be Solro diety and VC</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Brildean wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Next nerf will be Solro diety and VC</p></blockquote><p> VC is a professional ability so it's suppose to be modifable, also the record period on a single target mob seems straight forward.  diety's are a special temporary effect that is unlike any other in game (no other god effects in game).   i'm pretty sure both are safe.</p>

[Geothe]

<p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brildean wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Next nerf will be Solro diety and VC</p></blockquote><p> VC is a professional ability so it's suppose to be modifable, also the record period on a single target mob seems straight forward.  diety's are a special temporary effect that is unlike any other in game (no other god effects in game).   i'm pretty sure both are safe.</p></blockquote><p>He means using Incinerate miracles to get massive VCs.</p>

[Dreadpatch]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brildean wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Next nerf will be Solro diety and VC</p></blockquote><p> VC is a professional ability so it's suppose to be modifable, also the record period on a single target mob seems straight forward.  diety's are a special temporary effect that is unlike any other in game (no other god effects in game).   i'm pretty sure both are safe.</p></blockquote><p>He means using Incinerate miracles to get massive VCs.</p></blockquote><p>I don't think being able to do it once an hour for 10 seconds is really game breaking imho.</p>

[Landiin]

<p>Game breaking? No, Suck? yes, Will all the QQ lead to less subs? No... Move on...</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Toranx@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Game breaking? No, Suck? yes, Will all the QQ lead to less subs? No... Move on...</p></blockquote><p>Yes, because none of the other stupid nerfs they have done in the past have pushed people into canceling...... oh wait.</p>

[Quicksilver74]

<p>They have to nerf stuff so they can give it right back to us next expansion and we'll think it's an upgrade.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They have to nerf stuff so they can give it right back to us next expansion and we'll think it's an upgrade.</p></blockquote><p>QFE.</p><p>Kinda like the +base nerf to avatar loot that SoE said was overpowering but yet they turn around and give it out like candy (even on treasured gear) in the next expansion.</p>

[JenoJeno]

<p>SoE just needs to hire new devs imo some with some common sense</p>

[Landiin]

<p><cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They have to nerf stuff so they can give it right back to us next expansion and we'll think it's an upgrade.</p></blockquote><p>exactly Crab!</p>

[-=Hoss=-]

<p><cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I don't think being able to do it once an hour for 10 seconds is really game breaking imho.</p></blockquote><p>PR and torrent were game breaking?  apparently it doesn't have to be game breaking to warrant the attention of the nerf bat.  Just has to be something people enjoy using.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Geothe wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Brildean wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Next nerf will be Solro diety and VC</p></blockquote><p> VC is a professional ability so it's suppose to be modifable, also the record period on a single target mob seems straight forward.  diety's are a special temporary effect that is unlike any other in game (no other god effects in game).   i'm pretty sure both are safe.</p></blockquote><p>He means using Incinerate miracles to get massive VCs.</p></blockquote><p> i know that.</p><p> that's why i explained both abilities and how neither is broken.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Laiina wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thanks again SoE.  I am getting pretty tired of this.</p><p>How about a refund of the 220 marks I just spent to get the <span>Pestilential Rain wrist last week. The higher damage was the reason I got it for my assassin since it has crap for agil on it.</span></p><p>Could you at least fix crap in a timely mannor instead of months/years down the road? Jeez.</p></blockquote><p>That is really my problem with things like this. It has been known for quite some time that PR was "broken", and it should have been fixed long ago.</p><p>But on the other hand, my conjy has been waiting for the offensive pet stance to get fixed for months now.</p></blockquote><p>The thing is.... I didn't know it was broken and I do a fair share of reading on boards too.</p><p>Yes, I wondered why it was higher damage than all the other procs but figured it has been 7 months... surely it would have been fixed by now if it wasn't intended.</p><p>Sucks since I don't do many instances and it has taken me the 7 months to get 220 marks. To have them "wasted" like this really ticks me off.</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: medium; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 1px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 1px;"><span style="font-size: 12px; color: #ffffff;"><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">No other procs were modifiable. This was a bug that ONLY existed on these procs. In fact it says directly on these procs that they can not be modified except by direct means, but they were in fact modifiable. It was obviously a bug. The other odd thing about these procs were that the AOE procs did more damage on single targets then the single target procs like wildfire and followthrough. It never made sense and made all other procs worthless in comparison.</p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">You probably didnt realize that but alot of people did. They just don't post on the boards when they see something broken in their favor. </p><div></div></span></span></p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No other procs were modifiable. This was a bug that ONLY existed on these procs.</p></blockquote><p>True, but how come it took SEVEN months to fix such an obvious bug.</p>

[Sydares]

<p>If these are going to be unmodifiable, the values need to be increased, or this basically breaks several tiers of itemization.</p>

[Bruener]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>No other procs were modifiable. This was a bug that ONLY existed on these procs.</p></blockquote><p>True, but how come it took SEVEN months to fix such an obvious bug.</p></blockquote><p>Well thats probably why all the other procs suck too.  The AE procs are like the only good procs this xpac and now they are going to suck too.  I have no doubt that I will be swapping out like 5 pieces of gear for other gear because of this change.  Stacking up 3 different Pest Rain proc items to get like 1.5k DPS from it on a parse hardly seems game breaking.</p><p>Instead of making these unmodifiable just change it so all the other procs are modifiable.  Kind of nice having gear with a proc that grows as you grow as a character.</p>

[Geothe]

<p>Yeah, nerfing these procs really sucks.Because the unmodified damage on procs is pretty much useless over all.Would rather they change all procs from this expansion to being modifiable by your primary stat (not criting, not potency), just primary stat.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Laiina wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thanks again SoE.  I am getting pretty tired of this.</p><p>How about a refund of the 220 marks I just spent to get the <span>Pestilential Rain wrist last week. The higher damage was the reason I got it for my assassin since it has crap for agil on it.</span></p><p>Could you at least fix crap in a timely mannor instead of months/years down the road? Jeez.</p></blockquote><p>That is really my problem with things like this. It has been known for quite some time that PR was "broken", and it should have been fixed long ago.</p><p>But on the other hand, my conjy has been waiting for the offensive pet stance to get fixed for months now.</p></blockquote><p>The thing is.... I didn't know it was broken and I do a fair share of reading on boards too.</p><p>Yes, I wondered why it was higher damage than all the other procs but figured it has been 7 months... surely it would have been fixed by now if it wasn't intended.</p><p>Sucks since I don't do many instances and it has taken me the 7 months to get 220 marks. To have them "wasted" like this really ticks me off.</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 12px; color: #ffffff;"><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">No other procs were modifiable. This was a bug that ONLY existed on these procs. In fact it says directly on these procs that they can not be modified except by direct means, but they were in fact modifiable. It was obviously a bug. The other odd thing about these procs were that the AOE procs did more damage on single targets then the single target procs like wildfire and followthrough. It never made sense and made all other procs worthless in comparison.</p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">You probably didnt realize that but alot of people did. They just don't post on the boards when they see something broken in their favor. </p><div></div></span></span></p></blockquote><p>If nothing is modifiable then what is the point of Blessings, frontload and dirges buff (which I forget name)?</p><p>Just about all procs have a double cannot be modified on them meaning the damage AND the proc rate can't be modified making those previously mentioned spell useless.</p><p>Either they need to make it so the proc rate can be modified or redesign the spells that mod proc rate to something more useful since they hardly work on anything anymore.</p>

[Gormak]

<p>They stopped procs from critting.</p><p>My concern with this is... Is this just a test case. The beginning of a greater nerf where NO procs are effected by player stats?</p><p>Changes like this are brought on by unimaginitive and clueless reactions to a greater problem, Broken itemisation and statistic systems.</p><p>Instead of addressing the actuall root cause, a bandaid is placed over *part* of the problem. Not fixing anything, and not improving anything at the same time!</p><p>WTB a team with balls to make the bigger changes that are needed.</p>

[biig]

<p><cite>Crabbok@Oasis wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They have to nerf stuff so they can give it right back to us next expansion and we'll think it's an upgrade.</p></blockquote><p>qft...</p>

[Shizune]

<p>Before they go on a rampage of nerfing things how about they fix their crappy EQ2players site first.</p>

[Ragepoint]

i don't see what all the fuss is about. theres only 3 reasons why people can be getting upset here. gonna [Removed for Content] most people listing the reasons but its what i do best. 1 your a parse [Removed for Content] and its affecting your numbers. 2 you really should be playing wow and you can't handle a game thats not in easy mode all the time. 3 you miss it for destroying people in pvp. if your crying its one of those 3 reasons. simple as that. i have never looked back on an encounter and said "[Removed for Content], if only they hadn't nerfed Pr and torrent we would have been able to kill that" im not for the nerf bat here but honestly whats crying gonna do. nothing at all, click more buttons and quit your b*tchin that mobs take .1 sec longer to die and your parses are down 300 dps.

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Ragepoint wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>1 your a parse [Removed for Content] and its affecting your numbers. 2 you really should be playing wow and you can't handle a game thats not in easy mode all the time. 3 you miss it for destroying people in pvp. </blockquote><p>1.  Every class should care about their parse, but its especially true of DPS classes.  If they're not doing the most DPS they can, they aren't doing their job and they aren't being as useful to the raid as they could be.  Especially since more than a handful of SF raids have a DPS requirement in order to win.</p><p>2.  Procs aren't easymode.</p><p>3. I don't PvP.</p><p>I don't care that they changed it, they're obviously bugged.  I just care that it took seven months to fix them and it comes after I've spent some DKP on PR3 items which I wouldn't have bothered with had I known they were going to be fixed this late into an expansion.</p>

[Draylore]

<p><cite>Ragepoint wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>i don't see what all the fuss is about. theres only 3 reasons why people can be getting upset here. gonna [Removed for Content] most people listing the reasons but its what i do best. 1 your a parse [Removed for Content] and its affecting your numbers. 2 you really should be playing wow and you can't handle a game thats not in easy mode all the time. 3 you miss it for destroying people in pvp. if your crying its one of those 3 reasons. simple as that. i have never looked back on an encounter and said "[Removed for Content], if only they hadn't nerfed Pr and torrent we would have been able to kill that" im not for the nerf bat here but honestly whats crying gonna do. nothing at all, click more buttons and quit your b*tchin that mobs take .1 sec longer to die and your parses are down 300 dps.</blockquote><p>Fine you caught me!!! I am a parse "[Removed for Content]".</p><p>Why?  because there is no other reason for my existence on a raid except to put  out as much DPS as I possibly can...If I dont work to gain every last ounce of DPS I can then i fail and dont belong on a raid.</p><p>And when a raid can wipe just as easily at 1% than it can at 91% every bit of DPS matters.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p>The way procs inherently work, i don't think they should be able to parse high at all, should be a low nice little 'bonus' DPS, not individually increasing your DPS by a decent percentage. Again, no doubt in my mind that the way they worked was 'fine' for Sentinels fate but problematic for what ever they have planned in the future including Velious.</p><p>If your a DPS class and NOT a parse [Removed for Content], you are fail. If you don't like that sentiment please roll a class other than a DPS so no one else is subject to your sub-par performance.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The way procs inherently work, i don't think they should be able to parse high at all, should be a low nice little 'bonus' DPS, not individually increasing your DPS by a decent percentage. </p></blockquote><p>Then no one would use them, the item points spent making them would be wasted and all everyone would care about is blue stats, which once I get like 3 more items I'll be capping all of them that matter solo.  So at that point unless it has more crit mit, no item in the game would really be an upgrade for me, aside from adding agi/pot/bonus to my already absurd amounts raid buffed.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>I have to agree with gage, these procs were obviously not playing by the rules and bugged, we just assumed that 6 months of ignorance by SoE on that bug was tacit blessing in those 2 remaining that way.</p><p>The only disappointment here is how long it took and the timing.</p><p>In regards to other posters and no meaningful dps from procs, I do not agree.  Procs could/should be a potentially significant contribution to effectiveness, just those procs that are significant could/should only drop off meaningful kills.  In the end, procs should never be scalable as when you let any mechanic modify the damage, they can quickly grow beyond their intended worth.</p>

[Aule]

What is the point of proc's really? To increase dps? Why not simply replace all damage proc's with a static effect that deals the appropriate amount of additional damage / threat on every swing or ability use. Additional "proc's" just add to that small static amount of effect. Normalize it to whatever, 2.5s cast times and 3.0s weapon delays (or whatever) and then have the extra damage scale to whatever you're actually doing. Encounter "proc's" then deal damage from the "encounter" pool to the encounter, and both the "single target" pool and the "encounter" pool to the primary target. We could come up with an original name for this effect, how about Bolt of Energy? (Go ahead and take those potency / crit bonus / resistability / etc proc's and normalize them out to the "always up" equivalent and just apply them as static effects too.)

[Gaige]

<p>Yay more boring static effects.  Procs are a lot more exciting imo.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>What is the point of proc's really? To increase dps? Why not simply replace all damage proc's with a static effect that deals the appropriate amount of additional damage / threat on every swing or ability use. </blockquote><p>Previously this wasn't possible, as there weren't any true uncapped static effects.  I suppose you can just keep stacking CB/Potency at this point, but procs are more fun IMO.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The way procs inherently work, i don't think they should be able to parse high at all, should be a low nice little 'bonus' DPS, not individually increasing your DPS by a decent percentage. </p></blockquote><p>Then no one would use them</p></blockquote><p>So if you had an item, then there was item nearly the same with a small damage proc added to it, you wouldn't use it?</p><p>Guess i just don't see how procs are more fun or exciting. Blue stat that gives X amount of DPS increase, meh. Damage Proc that gives roughly the same amount of DPS increase, OMG so awesome! What?</p><p>Proc's should be doing stuff we otherwise couldn't do. I liked the self buffs for potency and crit bonus they were spreading around. I think having damage procs all over just lets people up their DPS while being crappy, its a stat that requires no skill to use to its fullest.</p>

[Aule]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yay more boring static effects.  Procs are a lot more exciting imo.</p></blockquote><p>Damage proc's that do <1% of dps per piece are pretty un-exciting imo.  Since that's the direction they're moving in, they might as well replace the system with one that has less of an impact on the server.  Proc's also cause lag when they fire on mass amounts of targets because the crappy UI interface renders text as a graphic instead of as text.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think having damage procs all over just lets people up their DPS while being crappy, its a stat that requires no skill to use to its fullest.</p></blockquote><p>It continually amuses me when you make these comments while playing the DPS class that requires the least amount of skill to play and is more reliant on autoattack/proc damage than any other class.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Laiina wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thanks again SoE.  I am getting pretty tired of this.</p><p>How about a refund of the 220 marks I just spent to get the <span>Pestilential Rain wrist last week. The higher damage was the reason I got it for my assassin since it has crap for agil on it.</span></p><p>Could you at least fix crap in a timely mannor instead of months/years down the road? Jeez.</p></blockquote><p>That is really my problem with things like this. It has been known for quite some time that PR was "broken", and it should have been fixed long ago.</p><p>But on the other hand, my conjy has been waiting for the offensive pet stance to get fixed for months now.</p></blockquote><p>The thing is.... I didn't know it was broken and I do a fair share of reading on boards too.</p><p>Yes, I wondered why it was higher damage than all the other procs but figured it has been 7 months... surely it would have been fixed by now if it wasn't intended.</p><p>Sucks since I don't do many instances and it has taken me the 7 months to get 220 marks. To have them "wasted" like this really ticks me off.</p></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium; font-family: verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif;"></span></p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">No other procs were modifiable. This was a bug that ONLY existed on these procs. In fact it says directly on these procs that they can not be modified except by direct means, but they were in fact modifiable. It was obviously a bug. The other odd thing about these procs were that the AOE procs did more damage on single targets then the single target procs like wildfire and followthrough. It never made sense and made all other procs worthless in comparison.</p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">You probably didnt realize that but alot of people did. They just don't post on the boards when they see something broken in their favor. </p><div></div></blockquote><p>If nothing is modifiable then what is the point of Blessings, frontload and dirges buff (which I forget name)?</p><p>Just about all procs have a double cannot be modified on them meaning the damage AND the proc rate can't be modified making those previously mentioned spell useless.</p><p>Either they need to make it so the proc rate can be modified or redesign the spells that mod proc rate to something more useful since they hardly work on anything anymore.</p></blockquote><p>Do you understand the difference of modifiable damage procs and modifiable proc rates? They changed most procs this expansions to have modifiable proc rates but in ALL of eq2 no proc damage has been modifiable EXCEPT these 2 procs. </p><p>In fact blessings frontload, and luck of dirge will continue to work AFTER these procs are fixed.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gormak wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>They stopped procs from critting.</p><p>My concern with this is... Is this just a test case. The beginning of a greater nerf where NO procs are effected by player stats?</p><p>Changes like this are brought on by unimaginitive and clueless reactions to a greater problem, Broken itemisation and statistic systems.</p><p>Instead of addressing the actuall root cause, a bandaid is placed over *part* of the problem. Not fixing anything, and not improving anything at the same time!</p><p>WTB a team with balls to make the bigger changes that are needed.</p></blockquote><p>You do know that NO other procs are effected by players stats. These 2 procs were the ONLY procs that were. There is no beginning of a greater nerf. This is the continuation of a nerf that existed from DOF, when they nerfed detonation from not being increased by player stats. You are about 4 years to late with your tin foil hat theory. </p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Sydares wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>If these are going to be unmodifiable, the values need to be increased, or this basically breaks several tiers of itemization.</p></blockquote><p>I dont see where you getting at with this?</p><p>Considering the fact these procs were modifiable created more broken itemization then they fixed. Every single target proc such as wildfire and followthrough are garabage to an equal level and torrent pestilant proc. You would think single target procs do more damage on single targets then the aoe procs but they don't. One of the best wrists in game is from a mark of manaar merchant because it has PRII.</p><p>Anyway you look at these procs it is still obviously a bug.</p><p>Now on the other hand since they are nerfing these procs I would love for them to reintroduce proc rate increasing items. </p>

[Shareana]

This post has moved: <a href="/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=445320&post_id=5419218" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=44532...post_id=5419218</a> This is the testing Feedback thread, so please stick to constructive feedback and less bickering.

[Thunndar316]

<p>Well, that bracer proc is usually less than 3% of my ZW.  Not a huge deal but I still don't like spending 220 hard earned marks to have something nerfed.</p><p>I expect a refund.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>So your interpretation is I join guilds cuz they kill stuff yet the guilds killing stuff always seem to have me in their roster. Hmmmm.</p>

[Neiloch]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Neiloch@Kithicor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I think having damage procs all over just lets people up their DPS while being crappy, its a stat that requires no skill to use to its fullest.</p></blockquote><p>It continually amuses me when you make these comments while playing the DPS class that requires the least amount of skill to play and is more reliant on autoattack/proc damage than any other class.</p></blockquote><p>We are more reliant on auto attack and proc damage for higher DPS because our CA's do less damage. Knowing that, our auto attack and proc DPS isn't INSANELY better than any other classes, maybe a few percent purely because of auto attack. In addition to that, ranger don't even do true T1 DPS imo. Our auto attack dominates a larger PERCENTAGE because our overall 'pool' of DPS is smaller.</p><p>So yes rangers are more reliant on auto attack DPS. The same way an assassin with all apps would be more reliant on autoattack for DPS than an assassin completely mastered out.</p>

[On3iron]

<p>Please reconsider this nerf. If you want this "fix" to stay in you should increase the damage of the procs to make them usefull again.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Caedo@Splitpaw wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please reconsider this nerf. If you want this "fix" to stay in you should increase the damage of the procs to make them usefull again.</p></blockquote><p>They match the damage of all the single target damage procs.</p>

[lollipop]

<p> This is a bug fix not a nerf. The proc is the same as all others now.</p>

[Gungo]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>So your interpretation is I join guilds cuz they kill stuff yet the guilds killing stuff always seem to have me in their roster. Hmmmm.</p></blockquote><p>The guilds you join ALREADY kill stuff and by your own admission fail shortly thereafter, usually with the claim that the only people they recruited recently were terribad players.</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The guilds you join ALREADY kill stuff and by your own admission fail shortly thereafter.</p></blockquote><p>I joined Equilibrium before they killed either HM contested, Arkanthis, 4RT and before UD even existed.  Of the other "hardmodes" I had already killed Toxx and Waansu in Revelations.  So implying I joined Equilibrium before we became the best guild left in EQ2 is wrong.  I was part of the roster that helped this guild make those leaps in progression.</p><p>I joined Revelations before they killed Munzok, about the only mob that mattered in TSO.</p><p>I was a member of various other guilds before they killed things Top 5 WW.  </p><p>*GASP* guilds fail!?  No way.  Of course they fail, this game is horrible and the type of playstyle I demand hardly exists anymore and is hard to sustain because the majority of the population is terrible.</p><p>Your guild almost failed, the only reason you're still together is because what is left of your roster is content with being mediocre, something the players who went to Tyranny were not okay with and something I'm not okay with.  If I were I would've been in the same mid-tier guild since launch.</p>

[Thunndar316]

<p><cite>Gaige wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>The guilds you join ALREADY kill stuff and by your own admission fail shortly thereafter.</p></blockquote><p>I joined Equilibrium before they killed either HM contested, Arkanthis, 4RT and before UD even existed.  Of the other "hardmodes" I had already killed Toxx and Waansu in Revelations.  So implying I joined Equilibrium before we became the best guild left in EQ2 is wrong.  I was part of the roster that helped this guild make those leaps in progression.</p><p>I joined Revelations before they killed Munzok, about the only mob that mattered in TSO.</p><p>I was a member of various other guilds before they killed things Top 5 WW.  </p><p>*GASP* guilds fail!?  No way.  Of course they fail, this game is horrible and the type of playstyle I demand hardly exists anymore and is hard to sustain because the majority of the population is terrible.</p><p>Your guild almost failed, the only reason you're still together is because what is left of your roster is content with being mediocre, something the players who went to Tyranny were not okay with and something I'm not okay with.  If I were I would've been in the same mid-tier guild since launch.</p></blockquote><p>Congrats Gaige <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" /></p>

[Shareana]

<p>Please stop with the personal bickering.  Get back to the Constructive feedback  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Hecula]

<p>I personally don't find procs (except like VC or player-triggered procs) to be at all exciting. In fact I don't even notice them when they fire except if I'm looking at my buffs window and happen to see KL2 up or something. It's only a little blurb on my ACT that even shows they're triggering at all.</p><p>And for those that say these are the only 2 procs in the game that were able to be modified - that is completely wrong in more ways than just HOTLR.</p>

[Kizee]

<p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Gungo wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Laiina wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Thanks again SoE.  I am getting pretty tired of this.</p><p>How about a refund of the 220 marks I just spent to get the <span>Pestilential Rain wrist last week. The higher damage was the reason I got it for my assassin since it has crap for agil on it.</span></p><p>Could you at least fix crap in a timely mannor instead of months/years down the road? Jeez.</p></blockquote><p>That is really my problem with things like this. It has been known for quite some time that PR was "broken", and it should have been fixed long ago.</p><p>But on the other hand, my conjy has been waiting for the offensive pet stance to get fixed for months now.</p></blockquote><p>The thing is.... I didn't know it was broken and I do a fair share of reading on boards too.</p><p>Yes, I wondered why it was higher damage than all the other procs but figured it has been 7 months... surely it would have been fixed by now if it wasn't intended.</p><p>Sucks since I don't do many instances and it has taken me the 7 months to get 220 marks. To have them "wasted" like this really ticks me off.</p></blockquote><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">No other procs were modifiable. This was a bug that ONLY existed on these procs. In fact it says directly on these procs that they can not be modified except by direct means, but they were in fact modifiable. It was obviously a bug. The other odd thing about these procs were that the AOE procs did more damage on single targets then the single target procs like wildfire and followthrough. It never made sense and made all other procs worthless in comparison.</p><p style="font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">You probably didnt realize that but alot of people did. They just don't post on the boards when they see something broken in their favor. </p><div></div></blockquote><p>If nothing is modifiable then what is the point of Blessings, frontload and dirges buff (which I forget name)?</p><p>Just about all procs have a double cannot be modified on them meaning the damage AND the proc rate can't be modified making those previously mentioned spell useless.</p><p>Either they need to make it so the proc rate can be modified or redesign the spells that mod proc rate to something more useful since they hardly work on anything anymore.</p></blockquote><p>Do you understand the difference of modifiable damage procs and modifiable proc rates? They changed most procs this expansions to have modifiable proc rates but in ALL of eq2 no proc damage has been modifiable EXCEPT these 2 procs. </p><p>In fact blessings frontload, and luck of dirge will continue to work AFTER these procs are fixed.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, I know the difference.</p><p>And yes this proc ended up to have a modifiable proc rate however most of my other jewelry proc rates are not modifiable because they have a double cannot be modified on them. Bug maybe? /shrug</p>

[Gaige]

<p><cite>Shimmer@Befallen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yes, I know the difference.</p><p>And yes this proc ended up to have a modifiable proc rate however most of my other jewelry proc rates are not modifiable because they have a double cannot be modified on them. Bug maybe? /shrug</p></blockquote><p>Almost all procs in SF are modifiable.  The main ones I can think of that aren't are immunity procs like on the earring from HM Vaclaz.</p>

[Dreadpatch]

Tempted to start up another thread since this one has been hijacked. Caster vs. Scout- I'm not quite sure of the diff in damage caused, but damage proc from Pest Rain and Torrent is now pretty laughable for a caster. I understand that this was a "fixed" bug, but the damage should be moved up on this at least a little. A guildie and I looked at the amount of damage PR did last night during raid. My parse was usually between 20-30k dps and PR (I have it on more than one piece) was sitting around 40 dps. I understand it's just a proc, but this is the end game proc that is a bonus for obtaining certain rare gear in most cases. So basically it's amounting to approx. .185% dps. I'm thinking either casters need to have a diff damage proc that goes off either more often or does more damage to keep it's value more in line with scouts. My two coppers, throw us a bone.

[Attrikane]

<p><cite>Shareana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Please stop with the personal bickering.  Get back to the Constructive feedback  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Does it really matter Shareana?  These forums have proven that the customers feedback doesn't mean crap in the long run.  You might as well let everyone blow off steam...thats about all these forums are good for.</p>

[Davngr1]

<p><cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Tempted to start up another thread since this one has been hijacked. Caster vs. Scout- I'm not quite sure of the diff in damage caused, but damage proc from Pest Rain and Torrent is now pretty laughable for a caster. I understand that this was a "fixed" bug, but the damage should be moved up on this at least a little. A guildie and I looked at the amount of damage PR did last night during raid. My parse was usually between 20-30k dps and PR (I have it on more than one piece) was sitting around 40 dps. I understand it's just a proc, but this is the end game proc that is a bonus for obtaining certain rare gear in most cases. So basically it's amounting to approx. .185% dps. I'm thinking either casters need to have a diff damage proc that goes off either more often or does more damage to keep it's value more in line with scouts. My two coppers, throw us a bone.</blockquote><p>  everyones(scout,mage,fighter,healer) torrent and pr are doing useless numbers now.  specialy when compared to pre-nerf values.   almost half the damage.</p>

[Outkasted2006]

<p><cite>Ragepoint wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>i don't see what all the fuss is about. theres only 3 reasons why people can be getting upset here. gonna [Removed for Content] most people listing the reasons but its what i do best. 1 your a parse [Removed for Content] and its affecting your numbers. 2 you really should be playing wow and you can't handle a game thats not in easy mode all the time. 3 you miss it for destroying people in pvp. if your crying its one of those 3 reasons. simple as that. i have never looked back on an encounter and said "[Removed for Content], if only they hadn't nerfed Pr and torrent we would have been able to kill that" im not for the nerf bat here but honestly whats crying gonna do. nothing at all, click more buttons and quit your b*tchin that mobs take .1 sec longer to die and your parses are down 300 dps.</blockquote><p> I wasnt signed in.. was just reading this thread. Till I saw your post I was going to simply just laugh at the retardness of SOE, and the FEW BACKERS, who are always on SOE's lower genitals anyways.  Now let's touch your post from start to finish.</p><p>1.) Yes, Parse classes upset by something that affects there parses ? That's a suprise? really? Come on now, don't be that slow man.</p><p>2.) Go play wow for a game thats not on easy mode all the time? Wait.. Wait..? This is the one that made me laugh the most, REALLY? So you consider this game hard? Sorry this game HAS already been through the WoW transformation chamber. This game is EASY MODE. The attacks people give about "go play wow if you want easy, really don't apply anymore" Thanks to all you QQ'ers. Don't even get me started there.</p><p>3.) Now you just basically admitted in this part that SoE did what they said they would never do. "We will never let PVP and PVE affect one another"  Lie! I hate admitting it, but Battlegrounds, has truely made so much time spent on nagafen, WASTED. From certain gear(all you bluebies can have the exact same thing) Fighter Heal crits (don't care what u said driven by BG) nerfed, and now this .  God [Removed for Content], bluebies, stop your [Removed for Content] crying, and just play the dang game!</p><p>THIS GAME IS EASY MODE NOW!</p><p> Oonej > You</p>