Fame Loss - Seriously

[Amityville]

<p>I don't understand how a PVP Dev can sit back and ignore the massive amount of players who want Fame Loss back in the game. What is the problem? I don't understand why there is such hesitation to bring it back into the game. So seriously, why has it not been brought back yet?</p>

[Wytie]

<p>He already said there would be as much time involved for a new fame system as to try and bring back the old.</p><p>So I expect a whole new system that will use some of the best traits from each system into a new one.</p><p>That may be wishful thinking but who knows.</p><p>I just hope whatever he does it resets everyone back to nothing so no matter what people, will have a competitive reason to pvp even after they have gained all the gear for all of their toons.</p>

[EverSkelly]

<p>I hope they will NEVER implement the fame loss again.</p><p>Fame loss taught the entire PvP community to RUN from combat.</p><p>At some point i saw people doing everything to avoid PVP on the PvP server. Because they didn't want to lose title.</p><p>While fame decay isn't the best option out there, fame loss and title loss is the worst thing for PvP ever. If they know they could lose their precious title, they will run. The only ones that will not run away are the soloing victims of PvP groups.</p><p>We don't have enough PvP as it is, why would someone in PvP server want to make it even more rare..?</p>

[BlueEternal]

<p>Fame loss on death. Fame decay while offline/online. Seems pretty sexy to me.</p><p>Edit: And people run from fights regardless of fame loss or not. It that wasn't the case, people wouldn't be complaining about combat breaking too fast. There are runners out there.</p>

[EverSkelly]

<p>How is "fame loss" system better than this one? How will it encourage PvP? It will only encourage running from fights and picking your fights even more careful. That means less PvP. How is it better???</p><p>Possibility of losing your title will always be a reason for people to avoid PvP.</p><p>Obviously you don't even know why are you asking for it. You just think "it's cool". Or you just want changes. Turn on your brain and think what will PvP turn into.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>EverSkelly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>How is "fame loss" system better than this one? How will it encourage PvP? It will only encourage running from fights and picking your fights even more careful. That means less PvP. How is it better???</p><p>Possibility of losing your title will always be a reason for people to avoid PvP.</p><p>Obviously you don't even know why are you asking for it. You just think "it's cool". Or you just want changes. Turn on your brain and think what will PvP turn into.</p></blockquote><p>Well for starters it can't possibly encourage "more" running. Just about EVERYONE does when they are losing as it is. I honestly don't think the runners can get any worse /shrug</p><p>And losing Fame on death just makes more sense than losing fame while offline.. doing you know.. RL stuff. I don't want to think about my ingame persona when I am out and about.. but I always have to be like.. I wonder how much fame I lost today... yesterday.. oh my kill streak is crazy yet I have lost my title. It just doesn't make sense, and if people can not see that then there is no helping them.</p><p>We have seen that the runners did not stop running when the new system was in place.. they won't stop running no matter what (well if you gave them tokens for dying lol).</p><p>Runners are runners for life... they just can't bring themself to bite the bullet and go balls in</p>

[Darkor]

<p>AS long as there is no fame decay in future im up for whatever. I just hate to be penalized for being offline or actually doing some pve instead of pvp.</p>

[EverSkelly]

<p>Then offer something else. Not saying fame decay is good system, but it at least works. No one is running away because of that. But offer a different system, not bring back the infamous fame loss, title hunting and running away.</p><p>I don't care about fame decay, be it online or offline. But you know fame loss will force people to pick fights and avoid anything where they don't have an obvious advantage. Don't you remember how it was?</p><p>Fame loss would be ok if the PvP would be different. If you could not get out of combat so fast. If the run speed wasn't that out of control. If there were more means of stopping runners. Now the fame loss system just doesn't work.</p>

[Amityville]

<p>To a couple things posted in this thread:</p><p>Runners: Runners will run regardless, when they removed the chance to lose fame in pvp, people ran because they didn't want to have a bad KVD ratio, or didn't want to end up on someones fraps, or didn't want to lose to someone they thought they could beat. The people who ran from fame loss on death are 90% of the people who will run from dying to someone they don't like or if their precious KVD ratio might get up to 1000 deaths.</p><p>Low PVP Population: The 2 biggest mistakes in PVP history on Everquest 2 were 1) Removing level locking, forcing those t4 pvp'rs (which was probably the highest population of pvp'rs ever) to level up to 90 where they didn't want to be. Forcing anyone to do something in a game that they pay to play is never a good idea. 2) Fame Decay stopped all the competition, and allowed zerging, which annoys people and I know for me, is one of the reasons I stopped pvp'ing.</p><p>The other reason I stopped PVP'ing is because there was no competition, no fail conditions. When there was fame loss, having a high title was a good thing, getting to Dreadnaught or General was an accomplishment. Not like today where a group can stand in the middle of a zerg fest aoe'ing and get OVerseer title in an afternoon. I enjoyed when someone ran from me, they knew the whoopin' was coming!</p><p>I feel that the removal of fame loss really ruined the pvp hunt, and fame loss was exciting, you knew if you were border line another title, or about to lose the one you were on. The way you pvp'd changed and the excitement went up when you were about to ding that next title, you could feel it.</p><p>Bring back the fun and exciting pvp days of fame loss. There is nothing good about fame decay, it forces you to basically stay logged in for as much time as possible. From SOE's point of view, you can see where it's beneficial to them, more people having to log on and having to stay on to keep the title, but for people who are working 40+ hours a week, they are losing titles because of that. But I guess since it's so easy to get them back, then who cares.</p><p>I definitely agree that with the next fame change, they should reset everyones title to nothing, that will really spark some good PVP battles.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>EverSkelly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Don't you remember how it was?</p></blockquote><p>Do we play a different game? Because how it was.. is how it is. There has been no noticable difference in runners.</p><p>They are just running for different reasons now. We must be playing different games though because in the one you play no one is running away.. yet the one I play they still run like rats.</p><p>Was in a battle the other day 2FPs vs 4Qs (neither side was dying) 3 other FPs show up making it 5 to 4 .. and even though we stayed and fought when the odds were against us.. once the odds changed the 4 scattered like roaches.. they didn't even leave as a team making it look like they didn't even coordinate the run with each other, it just became every man for him/herself. For what? KvD maybe.. pride maybe.. not wanting to give the opposing team an update ?</p><p>Fame loss is not the cause of running.. human nature is. The sooner people get that into their head the faster we can move to more rewarding systems that make sense.</p>

[Epiph]

<p>that guy complaining that fame loss is bad is a [Removed for Content].  Fame loss kept this game interesting to say the least.</p>

[Kota]

i'm gonna go practice cliff diving

[EverSkelly]

<p><cite>Epiph@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>that guy complaining that fame loss is bad is a [Removed for Content].  Fame loss kept this game interesting to say the least.</p></blockquote><p>Well, and i think you are the [Removed for Content]. So we're equal here.</p><p>And i didn't see how every white con running away if they are not in group (and if their title is one rank lower/higher than mine) could be called interesting.</p><p>So far i didn't see one reason why would fame loss on death make the pvp better. And no, it doesn't make the pvp exciting. Seeing how only people with clear advantage engage doesn't make it exciting at all.</p>

[Ahlana]

<p><cite>EverSkelly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Seeing how only people with clear advantage engage doesn't make it exciting at all.</p></blockquote><p>Just like now? You seem to refuse to accept that people are still running or only engaging when there isa c lear advantage.</p><p>Starting to think you are trolling because you keep skating around the issue that people run just as much now as they did then.</p>

[MaCloud1032]

Yes but now the excuse is iam running to prevent updates /nods

[EverSkelly]

<p><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>EverSkelly wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p> Seeing how only people with clear advantage engage doesn't make it exciting at all.</p></blockquote><p>Just like now? You seem to refuse to accept that people are still running or only engaging when there isa c lear advantage.</p><p>Starting to think you are trolling because you keep skating around the issue that people run just as much now as they did then.</p></blockquote><p>No, people now are running less. They are running, yes, but it's not that bad as it was. There were lots of people who were just sitting near doors / bells and zoning out if slightest danger of pvp occured. Now people actually fight more.</p><p>If the person had high title, you knew he got it by avoiding pvp and running alot. Engaging only when it's obvious advantage. Or if the enemy is out of his infamy range.</p><p>Now such person is not running away. The twinks are usually fighting to death. Because they are not losing their beloved titles...</p><p>You are blind if you don't see the difference. Maybe you don't remember..</p><p>I'm actually surprised how people can even argue about it.</p><p>"OMG i am Champion. Now i will choose fights wisely."</p><p>And getting infamy only one title above or below? I don't get any infamy for killing a Dreadnaught if i'm a Slayer? How stupid is that?</p>

[Duotang]

<p>The fame system past, present and future breaks down quite easily.</p><p>1) Demographic ages 10-20 love titles</p><p>2) Demographic ages 21-30 could take it or leave it</p><p>3) Demographic ages 30+ don't want titles</p><p>There is a very simple explanation to this phenomenon. Children are still in the weaning stages. They need someone to tell them they are doing ok. They can't justify to themselves that they are or are not good at something in particular. It doesn't have to be a title in a video game, it could be a drawing in a coloring book for example, that has a "gold star" on it.</p><p>On the other hand, as people mature (in game or not), they don't need external gratification. They know if they have done a job well done or not.</p><p>It's really that simple. If you're on these boards crying to the devs that the "fame system" isn't working properly, chances are you fall into the #1 demographic.</p>

[Wytie]

<p>LOL im way older than 20, and I cant wait for them to fix the title system.</p><p>Sorry to bust your theory.</p>

[Duotang]

<p><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL im way older than 20, and I cant wait for them to fix the title system.</p><p>Sorry to bust your theory.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but there are exceptions. I should have made that clear for the lay:</p><p>1) Exception 1 - Members of raid guilds that spend more than 40hrs a week in a zone. (See also: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment</a> and/or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare</a>&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>2) Exception 2 - People with learning disorders ( See also: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation</a>&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Epiph]

<p>you're an idiot.  Cleraly anyone who favors the old title system is a child in your mind.  I think someone was griefed when they were in their teens, because clearly thats what your post indicate</p>

[Duotang]

<p><cite>Epiph@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>you're an idiot.  Cleraly anyone who favors the old title system is a child in your mind.  I think someone was griefed when they were in their teens, because clearly thats what your post indicate</p></blockquote><p>INC Carebears needed!</p>

[BlueEternal]

<p>Duotang used to group with Utherus and Kerrry, no wonder he's so angry!</p>

[Nemas Ravenor]

<p>What bringing back the old fame system will do is kill Warfields for anyone not wishing to grind tokens.</p><p>And if you look at who is posting about wanting the old fame system back, these are the same people (myself included) who want warfields to disappear so that people will go out HUNTING pvp again.</p><p>This isn't about raiders vs pvpers here.  This is about enjoying a certain style of play over another.  The people who liked the old fame system also liked the way PVP was in the past where it had nothing to do with forced scenarious or zerging and had an almost samurai feel to it.</p><p>I remember being on my coercer flying through ROK zones and Pudaan would be on another bird coming from the opposite direction.  Both of us were solo and we would jump off the bird land and run at each other one vs one.  This chance coincidence happened maybe six times, but every time we saw each other on the bird we'd drop and fight.  There was no running and I'm not posting this to say I'm uber because he beat me four out of two times that I recall. </p><p>But what i am trying to say is that it was just plain awesome and you can't find that kind of thing anymore.  We don't enjoy warfields, but when no one goes out hunting anymore it is the only place to find PVP so we do it out of reluctance, not enjoyment.</p><p>Bringing back the old fame system will bring even more strategy and guile to the pvp experience.  Some of you may liken that to zone hugging or running away, but getting into those fights will give you the best adreneline rush you've had in this game for two years.</p><p>And for those who say you need infamy from killing a Dreadnaught when you are a Slayer, all that will do is artifically inflate everyone's titles yet again making titles as meaningless as they are now.  If you can beat a Dread, fine, go work your way up the food chain and waste him when it matters.</p>

[Chunkaliscious]

<p><cite>Nemas Ravenor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And for those who say you need infamy from killing a Dreadnaught when you are a Slayer, all that will do is artifically inflate everyone's titles yet again making titles as meaningless as they are now. </p></blockquote><p>The main problem is people really haven't realized that TITLES ARE MEANINGLESS.  Under the old system your title meant you didnt fight a battle you couldnt win.  Under the new system a title means you dont log your character off.'</p><p>But under either system the title doesnt necessarily reflect your skill level.  The only reason we have 'system' at all is so people can run around waving their titled epeens around at each other. </p><p>You know how I know how is good at pvp and who isnt?  The 3 columned list of toons I have next to my computer.  One column are the slackers that I can smash at will, one column for the "I will get you eventually", and the third one of the people who will wtfpwnzor my backside if I accidentlly show up in the same zone as them.  Yet, there are people of all title levels in all 3 columns.</p><p>Once you realize that they are worthless like me, then you'll be a lot happier.</p>

[Wytie]

<p><cite>Duotang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL im way older than 20, and I cant wait for them to fix the title system.</p><p>Sorry to bust your theory.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but there are exceptions. I should have made that clear for the lay:</p><p>1) Exception 1 - Members of raid guilds that spend more than 40hrs a week in a zone. (See also: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment</a> and/or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare</a> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>2) Exception 2 - People with learning disorders ( See also: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation</a> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Oh noes not the wiki's....</p><p>I use to lol a specific person who use to use wiki links as their crutch when they couldnt win an argument on the internets. thanks for the reminding lulz</p>

[Nemas Ravenor]

<p><cite>Chunkaliscious wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Nemas Ravenor wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>And for those who say you need infamy from killing a Dreadnaught when you are a Slayer, all that will do is artifically inflate everyone's titles yet again making titles as meaningless as they are now. </p></blockquote><p>The main problem is people really haven't realized that TITLES ARE MEANINGLESS.  Under the old system your title meant you didnt fight a battle you couldnt win.  Under the new system a title means you dont log your character off.'</p><p>But under either system the title doesnt necessarily reflect your skill level.  The only reason we have 'system' at all is so people can run around waving their titled epeens around at each other. </p><p>You know how I know how is good at pvp and who isnt?  The 3 columned list of toons I have next to my computer.  One column are the slackers that I can smash at will, one column for the "I will get you eventually", and the third one of the people who will wtfpwnzor my backside if I accidentlly show up in the same zone as them.  Yet, there are people of all title levels in all 3 columns.</p><p>Once you realize that they are worthless like me, then you'll be a lot happier.</p></blockquote><p>This is all pretty true.  But for me, personally, I don't like grouping up very much and other than raiding I have soloed this game for the last five/six years and so PVP for me meant going out and looking for one v one battles out in the wild.  Sure, sometimes I would wade into a group of two or three and wiping out full groups of green questers was always a blast... but for me I loved searching out that one v one fight that could give me an infamy boost. </p><p>And I will be honest, I never achieved a title higher than Dreadnaught because I rarely ever ran away from a fight, but it also meant that I achieved that semi high title through my own individual effort by solo killing more people with good titles than I lost to over a long period of time. </p><p>And that's something that has been missing from the game for quite some time.  The feeling of accomplishment.  But we all know that and I'm kinda tired of repeating it.</p>

[Ilovecows]

<p>A fix to the running problem.</p><p>People ran in the old system because they didn't want to lose infamy.  Now people run in pvp because they care about their kvd.</p><p>To fix this, whenever someone runs away from someone else, they lose infamy, and have it counted as a death in their kvd, or just switch deaths to losses or something like that.</p><p>The only way to stop people from running is too make the consequence for running worse than the consequence for dying.</p><p>Even if this idea isn't used, something of the nature is probably the only way to effectively stop people from running.</p>

[BlueEternal]

<p>I assume running = breaking combat. How would you make it so it doesn't penalize the person who was staying to fight and just penalize the person who ran? You're both breaking combat at the same time...</p>

[Zacarus]

<p><cite>Duotang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>3) Demographic ages 30+ don't want titles</p></blockquote><p>As someone well into the, "+" side of your demographic breakdown, I assure you I want my famez back!</p>

[Jab]

<p><cite>Steppen@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>A fix to the running problem.</p><p>People ran in the old system because they didn't want to lose infamy.  Now people run in pvp because they care about their kvd.</p><p>To fix this, whenever someone runs away from someone else, they lose infamy, and have it counted as a death in their kvd, or just switch deaths to losses or something like that.</p><p>The only way to stop people from running is too make the consequence for running worse than the consequence for dying.</p><p>Even if this idea isn't used, something of the nature is probably the only way to effectively stop people from running.</p></blockquote><p>i would not be thrilled by such harsh punishment for running.</p><p>Granted we all hate ppl that run when they are about to die.But tbh sometimes i get as just a big kick out of getting away from a doomed situation with the skin on my nose as i get from winning a close 1vs1.</p><p>It is one of those things where u are damned if u do and damned if u dont.</p><p>If there is other ways of getting to ppl to stick around then i am all for it.But not like the way u described imho.</p><p>Cheers</p><p>jabib</p>

[Vlahkmaak]

<p><cite>Duotang@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Paill@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>LOL im way older than 20, and I cant wait for them to fix the title system.</p><p>Sorry to bust your theory.</p></blockquote><p>Yes, but there are exceptions. I should have made that clear for the lay:</p><p>1) Exception 1 - Members of raid guilds that spend more than 40hrs a week in a zone. (See also: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment</a> and/or <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare</a> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p><p>2) Exception 2 - People with learning disorders ( See also: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_retardation</a> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></p></blockquote><p>Mental retardation is not a learning disorder.  MR is a developmental disability (nuerological in nature) typically of unknown etiology (ie: its just the way the baby was born.  Its due to the great birth RNG).  The exceptions being traumas before or after birth (car accidents etc), drug/drink related, or shaken baby in addition to the preventable - children allowed to play near swimming pools.  Most MR (actually labeled Intelectual disability since the introduction of the DSMIV are of unknown etiology.</p><p>Learning Disorders on the other hand are not a developmental disability.  Learning Disorders occur due to enviornmental reasons (which preclude a child's being able to take part in a special education program) and cannot be explained.  IE: A child is of normal intelligence as demonstrated by an IQ of 70 or greater but demonstrates an inability to learn skills related to math or reading which they should otherwise be able to learn as demonstrated against a normalized sampling of students placing on the bell curve in the same locale as the LD student scores. </p><p>Learning disorders can be corrected whereas persons with a developmental disability (MR/CP/EP/Autism - non Aspergers syndrome) cannot be corrected.  Persons with DD can be normalized to a great extent into society but the DD cannot be "corrected."  Some one with a DD will most likey be DD for life.  Some near typical ID (MR)  persons of high IQ will lead a "normal" life and will only be distinguished as being slightly slow - kinda like those who cannot equip jumpy boots and turn auto attk off at the same time.</p>

[Phineus]

<p> Pretty much half of my pvp fights result in my target running away as it is. With fame loss it would be 90%.</p>

[Stuckx]

<p>I played a warden in KoS when there was fameloss and still managed to get kills solo,even with low DPS then. Don't know what to tell you if you're not good enough to kill anyone before they can get away.</p>

[Duotang]

<p><cite>Stuckx@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I played a warden in KoS when there was fameloss and still managed to get kills solo,even with low DPS then. Don't know what to tell you if you're not good enough to kill anyone before they can get away.</p></blockquote><p>People jumping off clouds that you got one hit on does not really constitute a "solo kill".</p>

[Phineus]

<p>wtb root? My fights can take over 10 mins. Root wouldnt work either</p>

[Ilovecows]

<p><cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I assume running = breaking combat. How would you make it so it doesn't penalize the person who was staying to fight and just penalize the person who ran? You're both breaking combat at the same time...</p></blockquote><p>Using vectors, they can know what direction someone is running and how far they have ran, so if someone is heading in the opposite direction of someone else, they will know that that person is the one running, not the person who is trying to fight.</p>

[Nemas Ravenor]

<p><cite>Steppen@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p><cite>Naroc@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I assume running = breaking combat. How would you make it so it doesn't penalize the person who was staying to fight and just penalize the person who ran? You're both breaking combat at the same time...</p></blockquote><p><strong><span style="font-size: medium;">Using vectors, they can know what direction someone is running and how far they have ran, so if someone is heading in the opposite direction of someone else, they will know that that person is the one running, not the person who is trying to fight.</span></strong></p></blockquote><p>Yes... and that is what we want.. Olohin vectoring the zerg.</p>

[sokil]

<p>Fame decay while offline=worst idea ever. It makes no sense and does not relate in any way to the game.  if you wish to keep this make it so they decay is when they are online at least then there will be an incentive to pvp more. Yes, I know it hurts those that craft or stand around and socialize.. so see below.</p><p>I hated fame lose on death but at least there was something to strive for rather than this terrible system they have now. Bring back the old system and allow the cryers to hide their pvp titles like we can for any other title. (I have said this for a very long time now).</p>

[Bosconi]

<p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Bah hate to rehash simple points, but...</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">1.) Fame decay IN ANY WAY is EXTREMELY bad.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">a. When fame decays while online, enjoying 95% of the game's content is penalized (chatting, tradeskilling, harvesting, broadcasting [LFG/LFW/recruiting/etc], broker hawking, mentoring, powerleveling, instancing, raiding, inventory/bank managing, decorating, questing)</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">b1. When fame decays while offline, the person's hardware is excessively & needlessly stressed, reducing its longevity to preserve a shallow title obtained with no consequence.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">b2. When fame decays while offline, the person's alternative characters have the arduous work of the fame hunt rendered useless, due to it simply washing away while focusing on the player's main character.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">c. When fame decays IN ANY WAY, the adrenaline/anxiety associated with the infinite, cyclical content longevity behind player rivalry is erased, as there's little satisfaction in waging a successful: ambush, retreat, or zoneline trickery.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">2.) Fame gain from any rank is EXTREMELY bad.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">a1. Maintaining massive kill streaks is significantly simple, nullifying the reward of the hunt for those in "+/- 1 fame range".</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">a2. Titles exist in a useless state where they're cared for by little proportions of the populace (a la fame decay), due to the ease in obtaining rank increase.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">b. Reward from progressing through the" +/- 1 fame range" title system is the leisure of off-the-fame-record combat, all while still having to maintain alertness for those ranking up.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">The novel & innovative, vanilla system as we had it prior to <span><span style="color: #ff9900;"><em><strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;"><a href="list.m?topic_id=446940" target="_blank">Game Update #51: March 31st, 2009</a></span></strong></em></span><span style="color: #ff6600;"> </span></span>would simply be best as a 95% reversion.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Reason being for ONLY a 95% reversion, is that some do not want to participate in the PvP rank system, and have voiced this desire since PvP servers went live.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">To accomodate this wish, a 1-week reuse, 30-second recast PvP rank participation toggle could be made, also wiping your rank when toggled off.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Aside from that, fame gain shouldn't be possible while dead, in order to counteract the fame selling strategies used by those who group with dead teammates as they seek to develop PvP rank progression without any risk.</span></p>

[Silverzx]

<p>i don't really care if they bring that system back or not but the current system where you lose fame if you log out has to go.</p>

[Demonkill]

<p>Personaly, i would love to see the old fame system back. That is what got people's adrenaline going, when you knew your title was on the line. It was fun then, now it is just so [Removed for Content] booooring. Ohilin, stop being a noob and change it back, you were quick enough to take it away, so it cannot be that hard to put it back. Unless your coders are not very good at their job.</p>

[nastymatt]

<p>I can understand why they took fame loss away.. it was in the hope more people would engage rather than running. I can't say it worked.. people run more now than ever.. why? I have no idea.</p><p>But decay while not even playing is not good.</p><p>How about you get fame loss but can't "derank". i.e. You get to hunter with 15 full fame kills. Your title says hunter... you then die 10 times with fame loss and with no fame gain.. your title still says hunter but you are now going to need to get back those 10 deaths plus another 15 kills for slayer.</p><p>Or</p><p>You only decay while logged in on that char!</p>

[Zacarus]

<p><cite>Demonkill@Nagafen wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Personaly, i would love to see the old fame system back. That is what got people's adrenaline going, when you knew your title was on the line. It was fun then, now it is just so [Removed for Content] booooring.</p></blockquote><p>+1</p>

[Messia]

<p>Titles mean nothing now ... and they honestly didn't really mean much before either except for a choice few who were extremely good at solo pvp.  a group ganking a "Champion" running solo for fame wasnt' really difficult ... said person lost title to 6 people .. and you all may say  you want this back but i recall in vent many times some [Removed for Content] off people who are posting on these boards advocating for it ... who were bent out of shape for losing rank to a group of players. </p><p>So how would that change getting said system back .. you would still be butt hurt when you lost a rank due to getting ganked by a group or two groups etc. </p><p>Remove titles all together honestly .. that week they screwed up the titles and no one had any was the best pvp this game has seen in ages.  I saw people out pvping i'd never seen out or not seen out in months and months.</p><p>FOr those that insist having a title means something .. make the titles a reward for achievements and something they can toggle on or off .... I've had every title from hunter to overlord .. and honestly dreadnaught is my favorite .. always has been maybe thats because i had dread back when it was an earned title and there was fame loss who knows .. but titles really don't mean anything in the current state of PVP .. and even if fame loss was reinstituted .. i still don't think they'd mean much with the current state of pvp.  90 percent of those who had a high title back then had it because ... they were either good at running .. or they sat on the dock until they had the optimal group to pvp.... or they were a scout who could jump in kill one and evac before they could be killed ... LAWLZ ...</p>

[wayfaerer]

<p>People who think there is as much running now as there was when there was fame/title loss on death are seriously delusional.</p><p>Running/evaccing/cliffjumping etc was THE PvP strategy for 90% of people on the server. Then coming back when all of their sniper shots were reset. It was completely horrible.</p><p>At least now people will fight, even if it involves them zerging from a respawn point back when they die.</p><p>Fame loss ruins PvP. The people who like it are generally the people who think ganking is the be all end all of PvP.</p>