Loot in Palace of Theer broken, or just HORRIBLY designed? (too much tank loot!)

[Gargamel]

<p>Just wanted to throw this out there.  </p><p>I've been in that zone 2 times a week for months now clearing it every time and its getting to the point that we end up muting everything up to the T2 gloves (and even those sometimes) which is after it is even open to alts.</p><p>We seem to be stuck in tank loot mode (all str items), or at the very least 80% of the armor sets that drop are plate.</p><p>Don't see much mage stuff at all, and non plate healer gear seems to be rare too.</p><p>I know that def/off tank sets mean you'd expect to get more tank gear, is that the only problem though?  Anyone else getting frustrated that without smart loot, you can be running this zone twice a week since april/may and still have people that don't have the drop they need?  I mean who had the great idea to only have 1 set of pants drop of that 2nd mob???</p><p>So yeah, thats the question, is this broken or is it just horribly designed?  And if the latter is there any chance something can be done to fix it?</p>

[Barx]

<p>Welcome to the RNG. There's a total of 4 tank sets, so theres a large chance that you'll see a lot of them. SF itemization is just really bad when it comes to RNG because of things like that and the absence of any smartloot.</p>

[Gargamel]

<p>Yeah but I don't remember it being this bad.</p><p>I mean I've seen the same plate pants drop 4 out of 5 raids.</p><p>I guess it could be I just didn't notice as much when they were at least going to the 3rd tank alt of someone, and now there is literally not any alt of any raider that even wants 75% of the stuff that it gets muted... so now I notice more.</p><p>Still even with RNG I find it odd that every tank raiding, and every tank alt of everyone raids has everything they want, but some chain healer that has been on every raid or whatever still does not have their pants drop.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Yeah but I don't remember it being this bad.</p><p>I mean I've seen the same plate pants drop 4 out of 5 raids.</p><p>I guess it could be I just didn't notice as much when they were at least going to the 3rd tank alt of someone, and now there is literally not any alt of any raider that even wants 75% of the stuff that it gets muted... so now I notice more.</p><p>Still even with RNG I find it odd that every tank raiding, and every tank alt of everyone raids has everything they want, but some chain healer that has been on every raid or whatever still does not have their pants drop.</p></blockquote><p>When you look at it in terms of probability, it's gonna happen. According to Zam, the plate tank pants have a 10% chance to drop from Azara. You can easily model it as a simple permutation problem: those pants are 1 out of 10 possible outcomes and you need them to show up 4 out of 5 times. There's 5 relavent permutations out of a total of 10^5 outcomes, so the probability of seeing that is 5/100000 or 0.005%. It's a small chance, but that assumes you only kill the mob 5 times total, when you start looking at a large number of raids that probability goes up significantly.</p><p>It sucks, and it's compounded by how they itemized this expansion, but each time you kill it it's the same chance of getting any particular item as the previous time you killed it, getting a bunch of tank pants in a row is just bad luck. My guild saw like 5 or 6 leather (druid or brawler) pants in a row. If you're hurting for T1 pants, do Icy Keep. Once you've cleared it once, getting pants from Vrewwx is like a half hour kill and since they're patterns the chances are a bit different.</p>

[Yimway]

<p>I posted in a related thread how I think SoE's loot code is running, and its causing certain mobs to favor certain pieces more.  My observations of what is dropping compiled with feedback from other raiding guilds on my server appear to support that the %'s on Zam to not reflect the actual rewarded distributions.</p><p>If I'm correct, the order in which the items was added to each mob's table impacts the actual distributions.</p>

[Barx]

<p><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>I posted in a related thread how I think SoE's loot code is running, and its causing certain mobs to favor certain pieces more.  My observations of what is dropping compiled with feedback from other raiding guilds on my server appear to support that the %'s on Zam to not reflect the actual rewarded distributions.</p><p>If I'm correct, the order in which the items was added to each mob's table impacts the actual distributions.</p></blockquote><p>Yep that's certainly possible. If it's checking each item in order but limited it to one pants, then items that are rolled for first would be given preference, since the rolls would stop after they were 'won' but if no items dropped a second round would be forced.</p><p>That's really now how the loot should be rolled for, but if it is how it's being done it can explain excess of one item and dearth of another.</p>

[EQPrime]

<p>We almost always get cloth or brawler pants from her.  I don't know if she's dropped plate tank pants for us at all, and if so it's been very very rare to see them.</p>

[Gaige]

<p>Random is random.</p>

[Dreadpatch]

We should definitely have to run suck buttocks Icy Keep to get our raid geared. I have an idea, let Azeera drop TWO sets of pants!!! Holy crizzap that would just be two hard.

[Barx]

<p><cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>We should definitely have to run suck buttocks Icy Keep to get our raid geared. I have an idea, let Azeera drop TWO sets of pants!!! Holy crizzap that would just be two hard.</blockquote><p>Ice Maiden and Vrewwx combined takes all of 30 minutes, if you don't want the extra T1 pants then keep running Palace. Or work at progressing to clear Toxx, it's definately doable with most of your raid without SF raid pants.</p>

[Yimway]

<p><cite>Elusion@Nektulos wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>We should definitely have to run suck buttocks Icy Keep to get our raid geared. I have an idea, let Azeera drop TWO sets of pants!!! Holy crizzap that would just be two hard.</blockquote><p>Make crab drop 1 random t1 pant, problem solved.</p>

[vexation]

<p>I'd love to see some healer shields drop too. Been raiding SF since it came out and in all that time we've seen 2 healer shields drop (1 off harakaat and 1 of one of the twins, that's it!)</p><p>Don't even get me started on the legs situation.. still seeing a ridiculous amount of leather legs which is pretty disheartening considering you've only got 1 guaranteed drop from Azara?</p>

[Iamken]

<p>I agree. Azara should drop 2 guaranteed leg items.</p>

[Gargamel]

<p>Well yeah I'd say both.</p><p>There is NO reason why there isn't 2 pants drops on that mob, they added 2 chest drops to theer many moons ago but for some reason the pants were left out at 1 drop.  Smart loot would be nice, but we all know sony's MO is to wait until 3mth before expansion to put that in (better to have to spend time farming a zone for lack of content don't cha' know)... so lets brute force it with more drops  /shrug</p><p>But atan is right about the crab.  He isn't the hardest mob, but considering you only get 1 shot per instance, his loot table is so much crap.  Adding t1 pants to it would be the least they can do.</p>

[EQPrime]

<p><cite>Gargamel wrote:</cite></p><blockquote><p>Well yeah I'd say both.</p><p>There is NO reason why there isn't 2 pants drops on that mob, they added 2 chest drops to theer many moons ago but for some reason the pants were left out at 1 drop.  Smart loot would be nice, but we all know sony's MO is to wait until 3mth before expansion to put that in (better to have to spend time farming a zone for lack of content don't cha' know)... so lets brute force it with more drops  /shrug</p><p>But atan is right about the crab.  He isn't the hardest mob, but considering you only get 1 shot per instance, his loot table is so much crap.  Adding t1 pants to it would be the least they can do.</p></blockquote><p>The crab is stupid.  We killed it 2 or 3 times and havent bothered for months.  Now we just trigger him and evac it off every run because it's a waste of time to kill him.  If he had usable loot it might be worth killing him.  Personally I think he's more trouble than pretty much any of the easy mode mobs in the original SF content, especially now that PC has been nerfed twice, and he drops the same loot as the walking plant trash mob before Sara.  He should drop pants and healer weapons (since there are hardly any) or something.</p><p>Alternatively give him a bonus chest with like 100-200p in it and maybe it would be worth killing.</p>

[Tyrus Dracofire]

<p>since i join a raiding guild 3 weeks ago, as i can remembered, i have seen lot of scouts and mages drops on butcherblock server.</p><p>it just as other said, it is random, maybe try on different days instead of sheduled same nights a week, they could have different RNG, it almost like trying to get 6 action mini figures from gumball machine, and you get 4 of 6 item set and few other "extras".</p><p>most of time i had seen were jeweleries than armors or weapons.</p><p>just happened, all random, i do see some plates often.</p>

[Calain80]

We have the same with Brawler Items. As we are raiding at fixed times we do not get Klaaktuus a lot. While all Brawler Twinks already have both T3 gloves only 1/3rd of the mains have theirs. That is the way of the SOE RNG. The normal smart loot rules would also not help, as we got all these generic items with SF. So even if the classes that want to wear the items have them they would still drop as many other classes can also wear them. But you also can't adjust the class restrictions, e.g. 'cause there are no melee healer items. So as an Inq I need the ability to equip the tank and scout items to have a chance to gain some melee stats.