They consolidate bg tokens on test!?!? [Archive]

Beef_Supre

09-02-2010, 11:06 AM

<cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Striikor@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trenal@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>Also to add, I dont do BGs for gear anymore... I acctually play them for fun, I really do enjoy the different maps. Even with the issues</blockquote>Masochist! </blockquote>ooo me too. :p If you think that smugglers is out, you're crazy. Smugglers is one of the best games to play, I enjoy it the most. Believe it or not, there are a lot of players who like battlegrounds for the fun. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Yup, me too. I play BG's because I *like* them. The gear is nice, but not the reason I do it.I play BG's because: 1. I like them 2. I like measuring my characters against other playersToken consolidation? Fine with me, but please make Smuggler's > Ganak > Gears, in terms of value, just because of length.

Dark_fairy

09-02-2010, 01:37 PM

great change

Davngr1

09-02-2010, 01:41 PM

imo.. make ganaks and smuglers give more tokens since they're usually* longer matches.

Xiotia

09-02-2010, 01:44 PM

Do any of the people on test know if they changed the amount of tokens given per type of game on test?

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 02:06 PM

Call me a whiner but i'm happy with this change. Like I said in a previous post about this issue, it's not my fault I don't like Den. I just don't. There are so many flaws with the map it makes it absolutely horrible to me.I used this as an example that (imo) fits very well for pve. They made some fun zones, and annoying zones (DB). I don't think I should be forced to gain 'DB-Specific' marks in order to buy mark gear. It's not my fault the scripts are brutally unfun.I still think they should give out tokens with the daily quests and perhaps provide a 'DD' style quest for a specific map (maybe 100 kills or something), but other than that, i'm more than happy with this change and I may start playing BG's again knowing I don't have to do Den if I don't want.

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 02:21 PM

Not the least bit surprised, I feel bad for any smugglers fans

Yimway

09-02-2010, 02:29 PM

It doesn't matter how many tokens each has due to time or whatever, people will simply run the least challenging, fastest match.Which, I think will end up being ganak.

Xiotia

09-02-2010, 02:32 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>It doesn't matter how many tokens each has due to time or whatever, people will simply run the least challenging, fastest match.Which, I think will end up being ganak.</blockquote>But Ganak is only quick if one side really sucks, at least in T4. When I play Ganak on 90 the matches are quick, in T4 they often go to the most points at the end of the timer.

Ahlana

09-02-2010, 02:41 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>It doesn't matter how many tokens each has due to time or whatever, people will simply run the least challenging, fastest match.Which, I think will end up being ganak.</blockquote>Ganak is by far the longest ones I have ever done. Den doesn't even take as long in T4... I can't remember the last time I was in Ganak and it didn't end to anything other than time running out <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Xiotia

09-02-2010, 02:43 PM

Not that I dislike ganak. I prefer ganak to gears :p

Ralpmet

09-02-2010, 02:45 PM

<cite>Swarfega wrote:</cite><blockquote>Based on Olihin's posts i was under the impression that the existing bg/pvp vendors and items were not changing. Only future new items created which were to superceed both pvp and bg gear and put on all server types.On test is all the pvp gear on the bg merchant aswell?I think token consolidation is stupid. With the changes to BG map popping each type isnt hard to get now.</blockquote><div><cite>Olihin wrote:</cite><blockquote>The new items will be better then those items and will be available for both BG and Open PvP. The potions and other trinkets could be considered, but some are restricted due to the non-PvP usability that they bring. Not as huge of an issue as having in combat speed but still something most PvE players will not like being forced to BG to get as part of their set up. The issue on this thread concerns more the RoK and TSO armor that used the old itemization rules and since we are doing things differently now...adding those to the vendor is not our option. The new items should also eliminate the issue. The armor will have to wait a bit longer though, since we are not adding any new ones at this time. Olihin<div></div></blockquote></div><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?start=135&topic_id=485178">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=485178</a>That's what I'm referring to in my earlier post in this thread. Thought it's not the exact same, it's better, and therefor replaces (at least that's the assumption I'm thinking. I'm sure you can still get the old stuff, but really? Is that what you want to do?)

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 02:51 PM

Dreadpatch

09-02-2010, 03:44 PM

If its true that BG tokens are going to be consolidated to one type you will have a +1 to BG again. I like Gears and Ganak, but I loathe Smugglers. Gears is actually my favorite... GL getting a Smugglers going tho, cuz it is most people's least favorite and requires the most people.

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 04:27 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not the least bit surprised, I feel bad for any smugglers fans</blockquote>I'm sure those 5 people will get over it.

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 04:31 PM

Beef_Supre

09-02-2010, 04:53 PM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not the least bit surprised, I feel bad for any smugglers fans</blockquote>I'm sure those 5 people will get over it.</blockquote>Gotta admit, I'm one of them.Smuggler's has enough room and enough people that you can really get some variety in there. I love holding Center in huge mess of people, but I also love running down stragglers as they head to rejoin a group. A little bit of leadership in there goes a long way towards a victory, and I just enjoy the map.. and knocking/fearing people to their doom.Ganak can get boring with too many healers, and Gears can be lop sided by them.. but Smuggler's is always fun (for ME).

Mary the Prophetess

09-02-2010, 05:02 PM

but Smuggler's is always fun (for ME).Moi aussi

Xiotia

09-02-2010, 05:22 PM

well we can always queue up specifically for smugglers and force those that are queuing randomly to play mwahahaha. :p

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 05:24 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not the least bit surprised, I feel bad for any smugglers fans</blockquote>I'm sure those 5 people will get over it.</blockquote>Only 4 now I have not bg'd in over a week now and no plans on returning anytime soon.I'm more amazed that SoE in their infinate wisdom decided to make 2/3rds of their bg content obsolete because it took too long for some people to get the rewards.</blockquote>It's still 1/3rd.. and it won't even be obsolete. People will still play it, and i'm sure they'll do something like increase token rewards for the longer matches like Den and Ganak 85% of the time.

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 05:31 PM

Yes, smuggler is 1/3rd of the current content requied for gear, gears is 1/3rd and ganak is 1/3rdAll of them are currently required for the rewards, if you want the gear you have to do all of the maps regardless of time spent.Token consolidation will turn bg's into "where can i haz gear the fastest" Ganak will win that fight and thats how 2/3rds of bg content will become obsolete.Bg's were great and I'm still thankful for the few months of awesome gameplay I got out of them, its a shame they lowered requirements for the people who were incapable of playing them of the first place because those same people will get the gear and stop playing until new gear is released.

Xiotia

09-02-2010, 05:43 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, smuggler is 1/3rd of the current content requied for gear, gears is 1/3rd and ganak is 1/3rdAll of them are currently required for the rewards, if you want the gear you have to do all of the maps regardless of time spent.Token consolidation will turn bg's into "where can i haz gear the fastest" Ganak will win that fight and thats how 2/3rds of bg content will become obsolete.Bg's were great and I'm still thankful for the few months of awesome gameplay I got out of them, its a shame they lowered requirements for the people who were incapable of playing them of the first place because those same people will get the gear and stop playing until new gear is released.</blockquote>I don't share your grim outlook. :p But, we shall see when the change is implemented on live.

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 05:52 PM

<cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, smuggler is 1/3rd of the current content requied for gear, gears is 1/3rd and ganak is 1/3rdAll of them are currently required for the rewards, if you want the gear you have to do all of the maps regardless of time spent.Token consolidation will turn bg's into "where can i haz gear the fastest" Ganak will win that fight and thats how 2/3rds of bg content will become obsolete.Bg's were great and I'm still thankful for the few months of awesome gameplay I got out of them, its a shame they lowered requirements for the people who were incapable of playing them of the first place because those same people will get the gear and stop playing until new gear is released.</blockquote>I don't share your grim outlook. :p But, we shall see when the change is implemented on live. </blockquote>I'm not trying to be grim.People will always find the path of least resistance and thats probably why all 3 were required for the rewards in the first place so this would not happen.

Yimway

09-02-2010, 05:55 PM

<cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>It doesn't matter how many tokens each has due to time or whatever, people will simply run the least challenging, fastest match.Which, I think will end up being ganak.</blockquote>Ganak is by far the longest ones I have ever done. Den doesn't even take as long in T4... I can't remember the last time I was in Ganak and it didn't end to anything other than time running out <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Ganak can be the fastest. I swear I've seen matches that didn't last 2 minutes.I'm personally convinced the fastest way to tokens now is logging 6 people into ganak and throwing the match. I bet we could throw 3 matches in the time it takes to win one, right?

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 05:59 PM

Very possible.You can never underestimate how far some people will go in order to get gear asap.I'm certainly glad bg's hold no interest for me at this time

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 06:07 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, smuggler is 1/3rd of the current content requied for gear, gears is 1/3rd and ganak is 1/3rdAll of them are currently required for the rewards, if you want the gear you have to do all of the maps regardless of time spent.Token consolidation will turn bg's into "where can i haz gear the fastest" Ganak will win that fight and thats how 2/3rds of bg content will become obsolete.Bg's were great and I'm still thankful for the few months of awesome gameplay I got out of them, its a shame they lowered requirements for the people who were incapable of playing them of the first place because those same people will get the gear and stop playing until new gear is released.</blockquote>I don't share your grim outlook. :p But, we shall see when the change is implemented on live. </blockquote>I'm not trying to be grim.People will always find the path of least resistance and thats probably why all 3 were required for the rewards in the first place so this would not happen.</blockquote>It is grim because you're wrong lol. If you were right you'd be a realist, but you're putting a negative spin on something that isn't accurate.Gears was, is, and still will be the most played and easiest to gain steady tokens with map.Ganak was, is, and still will be a heavily played map that's fun at times and is like a lottery with tokens. Sometimes you get 3 tokens in a 2 min match, other times you get 1 token in a 20 min match.Den was, is, and still will be a slow paced, long, boring and random map that after about 17 mins you usually have a 50% chance of getting 1 token or 3 tokens almost irregardless of how good or bad you did individuallyThe only difference after this change will be groups will likely decline den when they do a 'queue all', until they add a daily bonus or increase the reward for Den. That's being a realist.

LardLord

09-02-2010, 06:15 PM

Unfortunately, Den has been pretty lame since they changed it to start games with like 9 people on each side. The map is cool with 48 people, but with fewer than 36 it gets boring fast.Every change they make to BGs makes them worse, so I won't be surprised if token consolidation is implemented in the worst possible way (or at least close to it) and BGs become even less popular.

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 06:15 PM

<cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ahlana wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Atan@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>It doesn't matter how many tokens each has due to time or whatever, people will simply run the least challenging, fastest match.Which, I think will end up being ganak.</blockquote>Ganak is by far the longest ones I have ever done. Den doesn't even take as long in T4... I can't remember the last time I was in Ganak and it didn't end to anything other than time running out <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Ganak can be the fastest. I swear I've seen matches that didn't last 2 minutes.I'm personally convinced the fastest way to tokens now is logging 6 people into ganak and throwing the match. I bet we could throw 3 matches in the time it takes to win one, right?</blockquote>I don't think so. If you had 6 people, you'd have to hope someone from the other 6 doesn't race ahead and grab the flag and hold it. You'd have to race ahead, grab flag, wait till the other team grabs your flag and returns it to your base. Then you can suicide. Realistic Best case you'd look at:Match 1 - 3 minsReform, Queue up, wait for match, zone over and wait the minute - 2-3 mins on a quick queueMatch 2 - 3 minsReform, etc - 2-3 minsMatch 3 - 3 minsYou're looking at 12+ mins easily to throw matches (on top of being a dbag), where 6 well formed people can win a gears match in about 10 mins and don't have to deal with sitting around waiting most of that time.If you have more than 6 people, that increases the chances of throwing matches as you have more control over your teammates, but then you have to factor in the speed it would take for 7-12 people to steamroll opponents and win the matches vs throwing them.I just dont' see it happening any more than it does now to be honest. Tokens have been in fro losses since the start, yet you rarely see 6+ people just throwing the match for fast ganak tokens. I doubt it will start with this change.

LardLord

09-02-2010, 06:19 PM

If you have 6+ people in Ganak as a premade, you should be able to trash a non-pre-made Ganak team in around 4 minutes.EDIT: If that's what you want to do. Half the time it seems like dominant teams in Ganak prefer to hold the flag and torment their opponent.

Xiotia

09-02-2010, 06:26 PM

<cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>EDIT: If that's what you want to do. Half the time it seems like dominant teams in Ganak prefer to hold the flag and torment their opponent.</blockquote>Now this I haven't seen, but I could see it as very annoying. Fortunately, I don't think anyone in T4 would allow this to happen.

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 06:29 PM

<cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>EDIT: If that's what you want to do. Half the time it seems like dominant teams in Ganak prefer to hold the flag and torment their opponent.</blockquote>Now this I haven't seen, but I could see it as very annoying. Fortunately, I don't think anyone in T4 would allow this to happen. </blockquote>I've only seen one guild do it so far, doesnt' happen half the time that's for sure. Circle of Heros from Vox (yes spelled that way)

Xiotia

09-02-2010, 06:45 PM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Quabi@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>EDIT: If that's what you want to do. Half the time it seems like dominant teams in Ganak prefer to hold the flag and torment their opponent.</blockquote>Now this I haven't seen, but I could see it as very annoying. Fortunately, I don't think anyone in T4 would allow this to happen. </blockquote>I've only seen one guild do it so far, doesnt' happen half the time that's for sure. Circle of Heros from Vox (yes spelled that way)</blockquote>I've seen some mean people come out of Vox and Bazaar. I don't know if they are coming in to build toons up for sale, or if the toons are bought, or if they are genuine players; but regardless, they are mean and vicious. Fortunately, I do not see them group often. Usually if I see a toon from vox or bazaar alone they are fine.

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 06:45 PM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, smuggler is 1/3rd of the current content requied for gear, gears is 1/3rd and ganak is 1/3rdAll of them are currently required for the rewards, if you want the gear you have to do all of the maps regardless of time spent.Token consolidation will turn bg's into "where can i haz gear the fastest" Ganak will win that fight and thats how 2/3rds of bg content will become obsolete.Bg's were great and I'm still thankful for the few months of awesome gameplay I got out of them, its a shame they lowered requirements for the people who were incapable of playing them of the first place because those same people will get the gear and stop playing until new gear is released.</blockquote>I don't share your grim outlook. :p But, we shall see when the change is implemented on live. </blockquote>I'm not trying to be grim.People will always find the path of least resistance and thats probably why all 3 were required for the rewards in the first place so this would not happen.</blockquote>It is grim because you're wrong lol. If you were right you'd be a realist, but you're putting a negative spin on something that isn't accurate.Gears was, is, and still will be the most played and easiest to gain steady tokens with map.Ganak was, is, and still will be a heavily played map that's fun at times and is like a lottery with tokens. Sometimes you get 3 tokens in a 2 min match, other times you get 1 token in a 20 min match.Den was, is, and still will be a slow paced, long, boring and random map that after about 17 mins you usually have a 50% chance of getting 1 token or 3 tokens almost irregardless of how good or bad you did individuallyThe only difference after this change will be groups will likely decline den when they do a 'queue all', until they add a daily bonus or increase the reward for Den. That's being a realist.</blockquote> So your major issue with the current system is because it takes longer then it should in your eyes, thats cool there are many of your type out there and thats why this change is going in. I never disputed that smugglers takes longer to play, I'm disputing that the "fix" will make 2/3rds of the current bg content obsolete because it takes longer to get gear no other reasons then that, it just took longer. Having such a huge change in order for people to get gear faster does not bode well for the future of bg's in my eyes, maybe you and others are pleased by this news and are excited for what the future may hold, however I do not share those sentiments. Ganak will be the path of least resistance in order to get gear, so it will become to only map worth playing for many of the people who currently play bg's unfortunately the majority of those players will stop bging once they aquire the gear since that is why they are even playing in this first place, if they were not playing strictly for the gear then smugglers taking longer then ganak and gears would never have been an issue.The path of least resistance has always been there, this change just makes it easier to maximize that potential

Xiotia

09-02-2010, 06:50 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, smuggler is 1/3rd of the current content requied for gear, gears is 1/3rd and ganak is 1/3rdAll of them are currently required for the rewards, if you want the gear you have to do all of the maps regardless of time spent.Token consolidation will turn bg's into "where can i haz gear the fastest" Ganak will win that fight and thats how 2/3rds of bg content will become obsolete.Bg's were great and I'm still thankful for the few months of awesome gameplay I got out of them, its a shame they lowered requirements for the people who were incapable of playing them of the first place because those same people will get the gear and stop playing until new gear is released.</blockquote>I don't share your grim outlook. :p But, we shall see when the change is implemented on live. </blockquote>I'm not trying to be grim.People will always find the path of least resistance and thats probably why all 3 were required for the rewards in the first place so this would not happen.</blockquote>It is grim because you're wrong lol. If you were right you'd be a realist, but you're putting a negative spin on something that isn't accurate.Gears was, is, and still will be the most played and easiest to gain steady tokens with map.Ganak was, is, and still will be a heavily played map that's fun at times and is like a lottery with tokens. Sometimes you get 3 tokens in a 2 min match, other times you get 1 token in a 20 min match.Den was, is, and still will be a slow paced, long, boring and random map that after about 17 mins you usually have a 50% chance of getting 1 token or 3 tokens almost irregardless of how good or bad you did individuallyThe only difference after this change will be groups will likely decline den when they do a 'queue all', until they add a daily bonus or increase the reward for Den. That's being a realist.</blockquote> So your major issue with the current system is because it takes longer then it should in your eyes, thats cool there are many of your type out there and thats why this change is going in. I never disputed that smugglers takes longer to play, I'm disputing that the "fix" will make 2/3rds of the current bg content obsolete because it takes longer to get gear no other reasons then that, it just took longer. Having such a huge change in order for people to get gear faster does not bode well for the future of bg's in my eyes, maybe you and others are pleased by this news and are excited for what the future may hold, however I do not share those sentiments. Ganak will be the path of least resistance in order to get gear, so it will become to only map worth playing for many of the people who currently play bg's unfortunately the majority of those players will stop bging once they aquire the gear since that is why they are even playing in this first place, if they were not playing strictly for the gear then smugglers taking longer then ganak and gears would never have been an issue.The path of least resistance has always been there, this change just makes it easier to maximize that potential</blockquote>Well if we look on the bright side of this, those of us that enjoy playing will not have to deal with the people that are just in it for the tokens and get mad if their team is losing. Less insult slinging on the chat and voice. woot

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 06:54 PM

People who are "just in it for the tokens" love this change in fact this change is pretty much all for that crowd, its everyone else who had fun doing bg's after getting all the gear or those who put the importance of rewards behind having fun who will lose out on this change.

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 07:49 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote> So your major issue with the current system is because it takes longer then it should in your eyes, thats cool there are many of your type out there and thats why this change is going in.</blockquote>I said it's slow, long, boring and random yet you took out of that my major issue is that it's long? By slow I mean the pace, the map size, etc. Many times you're standing there with no combat for minutes at a time, or you're running around this big map looking for people to fight, only to run into a larger group and get slaughtered, or a smaller group which you slaughter them. If you die, you're back at some spot across the map running again, and if you win, you're running again for more combat.That's really one of the bigger issues with the map. I honestly don't mind 20 min Ganak matches because of the smaller map, easier objective for many to understand and generally full of combat.. which is what I seek in BATTLEgrounds. I don't want to play runincirclesground.Why do you keep hearing what you want to hear? Den is not just horrible because it's a 17-18 min on avg map, it's horrible because it's NOT FUN. I'm glad I don't have to play it any more. One thing SOE did right in the past few months.

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 07:55 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>People who are "just in it for the tokens" love this change in fact this change is pretty much all for that crowd, its everyone else who had fun doing bg's after getting all the gear or those who put the importance of rewards behind having fun who will lose out on this change.</blockquote>Tell me this, why should people who play BG's be FORCED to play every match style? And why is it if they don't want to, they're 'just in it for tokens'? Here is a shocker, maybe there are people who like playing battlegrounds AND want to keep gearing up but DON'T want to be forced to run a map they hate. And it's not time vs token reward. Give Den 4 tokens per win due to the time of matches and i'll still skip it unless i'm absolutely bored of the other two.

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 08:00 PM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>People who are "just in it for the tokens" love this change in fact this change is pretty much all for that crowd, its everyone else who had fun doing bg's after getting all the gear or those who put the importance of rewards behind having fun who will lose out on this change.</blockquote>Tell me this, why should people who play BG's be FORCED to play every match style? And why is it if they don't want to, they're 'just in it for tokens'? Here is a shocker, maybe there are people who like playing battlegrounds AND want to keep gearing up but DON'T want to be forced to run a map they hate. And it's not time vs token reward. Give Den 4 tokens per win due to the time of matches and i'll still skip it unless i'm absolutely bored of the other two.</blockquote>No one was forced to do anything, if you wanted the gear then you played all the maps that was the pre-req to the rewards.But in true SoE fashion they confuse actual issues with people wanting gear asap.

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 08:24 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>People who are "just in it for the tokens" love this change in fact this change is pretty much all for that crowd, its everyone else who had fun doing bg's after getting all the gear or those who put the importance of rewards behind having fun who will lose out on this change.</blockquote>Tell me this, why should people who play BG's be FORCED to play every match style? And why is it if they don't want to, they're 'just in it for tokens'? Here is a shocker, maybe there are people who like playing battlegrounds AND want to keep gearing up but DON'T want to be forced to run a map they hate. And it's not time vs token reward. Give Den 4 tokens per win due to the time of matches and i'll still skip it unless i'm absolutely bored of the other two.</blockquote>No one was forced to do anything, if you wanted the gear then you played all the maps that was the pre-req to the rewards.But in true SoE fashion they confuse actual issues with people wanting gear asap.</blockquote>Semantics. You're not FORCED to play EQ2, or BG's, or raid, or group. You're not forced to wear gear in BG's, but having a brain says it's a good idea to do so. It's also a good idea to gear up in order to not be a liability on your team. So if you choose to play BG's and want to excel at it, you ARE forced to run certain maps.

Crismorn

09-02-2010, 08:35 PM

Yes, to get the rewards you must play all the maps, soon you will not and the min/max crowd can find out that Ganak is the fstest way to get tokens and bg's will go the way of SoH/WoE/Deep Forge.I'm just glad bg's hold no interest for me at this time.I see rewards as ... rewards, you see rewards as the goal.Neither of us are wrong, its just there are more of your type being vocal at this time.

Xelnok11

09-02-2010, 09:05 PM

i really really like smugglers den, 8'( Its so much fun to take on groups of people at a time by yourself or in a duo and not have to worry about anyone else in your team coming up and stealing your kills, ganak is too small and if i want to one v one someone they will get attacked most likely before they die.I also think it takes quite a bit more strategy, and if played right with a good team using VC is easily the most fun i have had in EQ2 to date.Im sure people will still play though, maybe only those that are good at what they do and like to work together but in the end if i see less raid leaders with no idea how to play and afkers with everyone in the match doing their best and having fun it will be good. Itll be fun to see people try and burn through ganak in as little time as possible too, maybe teams will actually start playing defensive, 8'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Uinael_Guk

09-02-2010, 09:18 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, to get the rewards you must play all the maps, soon you will not and the min/max crowd can find out that Ganak is the fstest way to get tokens and bg's will go the way of SoH/WoE/Deep Forge.</blockquote>Only time will tell for sure, but I don't think it's going to be NEARLY as bad as you make it. Gears will still be played and Ganak will still be played. Den? It'll be played, but it'll be sparse. However, with the lack of updates to BG's, all 3 maps are heading down that path regardless.

TheSpin

09-02-2010, 09:32 PM

IMO they should consider revamping the amount of tokens awarded in a major way. Also adjust the price of items in a major way. Make Smuggler's den worth 15 for a win and 4 for a loss. Ganak 6/2, Gears 3/1. Organizing more players, combined with a longer duration, should make smugglers the best reward for the time. Just like in PvE, raiding should offer the best rewards. When converting from the current tokens to the new ones, the easy fix is to sell smugglers tokens at a 5 to 1 ratio of the new tokens, ganak 2 for 1, and gears 1 to 1.

Beef_Supre

09-02-2010, 11:03 PM

This fix was necessary back before they made Smuggler's actually spawn..I remember leaving the Queue up for Smuggler's for 5 or 6 hours in Tier 4, and not seeing a single match. BUT.. they fixed that, we now get a pretty good rotation of the different maps.The fix now is needless. Not horrible, not helpful, just needless.And I *still* like Smuggler's the most. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />

kiku

09-02-2010, 11:53 PM

<cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>People who are "just in it for the tokens" love this change in fact this change is pretty much all for that crowd, its everyone else who had fun doing bg's after getting all the gear or those who put the importance of rewards behind having fun who will lose out on this change.</blockquote>Please dont speak for everyone. I have every item of gear on my BG toon Felecia. I support this change and think it is long overdue. Also my fav map is dens. I do it late night alot with Exad. Also for a person who does not care about BG or have intrest in them anymore you sure seem like this is making you upset/rage or whatever you want to call it.Not everyone has your outlook, and not eveyrone who does not is after fast gear/fast times. So speak for yourself fine but not everyone.

Culsu

09-03-2010, 12:00 AM

<cite>Beef_Supreme wrote:</cite><blockquote>This fix was necessary back before they made Smuggler's actually spawn..I remember leaving the Queue up for Smuggler's for 5 or 6 hours in Tier 4, and not seeing a single match. BUT.. they fixed that, we now get a pretty good rotation of the different maps.The fix now is needless. Not horrible, not helpful, just needless.And I *still* like Smuggler's the most. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>Den's and even Ganak is not fixed for T5 - T7, this is probably a population issue more than anything else, but the change is still needed for those whom like to lock in those levels, so just because it's working out for you in T4, please note that it still sucks for the rest of the tiers until T8.

Beef_Supre

09-03-2010, 12:08 AM

Yeah, point taken Culsu.I'm well aware what it's like to be unable to gather enough tokens to buy gear at your Tier.. guess I was overlooking the fact most the Tiers between 5 and 7 are ghost towns.For cases like those, this is a good thing indeed.

Uinael_Guk

09-03-2010, 12:45 AM

<cite>Beef_Supreme wrote:</cite><blockquote>This fix was necessary back before they made Smuggler's actually spawn..I remember leaving the Queue up for Smuggler's for 5 or 6 hours in Tier 4, and not seeing a single match. BUT.. they fixed that, we now get a pretty good rotation of the different maps.The fix now is needless. Not horrible, not helpful, just needless.And I *still* like Smuggler's the most. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The thing is though, many don't and really shouldn't be forced to run the maps. I said it earlier, but it would be no different than to have specific marks like:Vasty Deep TokensVigilant TokensPalace TokensThe Hole TokensThat would be awful and wouldn't make sense in pve, so why would it work in pvp?

Notsovilepriest

09-03-2010, 01:00 AM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Beef_Supreme wrote:</cite><blockquote>This fix was necessary back before they made Smuggler's actually spawn..I remember leaving the Queue up for Smuggler's for 5 or 6 hours in Tier 4, and not seeing a single match. BUT.. they fixed that, we now get a pretty good rotation of the different maps.The fix now is needless. Not horrible, not helpful, just needless.And I *still* like Smuggler's the most. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The thing is though, many don't and really shouldn't be forced to run the maps. I said it earlier, but it would be no different than to have specific marks like:Vasty Deep TokensVigilant TokensPalace TokensThe Hole TokensThat would be awful and wouldn't make sense in pve, so why would it work in pvp?</blockquote>I could understand that system, If you want the items from a zone, you run that zone until you get the tokens or have it drop, makes complete sense

Crismorn

09-03-2010, 02:27 AM

<cite>kiku wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>People who are "just in it for the tokens" love this change in fact this change is pretty much all for that crowd, its everyone else who had fun doing bg's after getting all the gear or those who put the importance of rewards behind having fun who will lose out on this change.</blockquote>Please dont speak for everyone. I have every item of gear on my BG toon Felecia. I support this change and think it is long overdue. Also my fav map is dens. I do it late night alot with Exad. Also for a person who does not care about BG or have intrest in them anymore you sure seem like this is making you upset/rage or whatever you want to call it.Not everyone has your outlook, and not eveyrone who does not is after fast gear/fast times. So speak for yourself fine but not everyone.</blockquote>I'm fully aware that many people wont min/max to the extreme who also enjoy smugglers, those are the ones who will lose out due to this change.

ChaserBaine

09-03-2010, 04:17 AM

You dont want to run smugglers because it is boring? Then you must be one of the ones that doesnt stay with their group. Stays at one flag and fights constantly instead of moving to other flags and holding them? omg. Your problem is you dont like "capture the flag" plan and simple. and they gave in to the whiners.OMG dont make me run around and kill that group that is holding that flag ffs. /sarcasm offIf it is server issue or tier issue they should have made a diff change or used a diff token for that tier.Now you will have twinked players racking up tokens for the higher lvls. (They do it now) but now they dont have to choose dens to slaughter you in! gratz have fun. Maybe they will increase the tokens you get for losing. hide those bg acheivements so no one sees your gear to win ratio rofl

MurFalad

09-03-2010, 08:09 AM

<cite>Xelnok11 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i really really like smugglers den, 8'( Its so much fun to take on groups of people at a time by yourself or in a duo and not have to worry about anyone else in your team coming up and stealing your kills, ganak is too small and if i want to one v one someone they will get attacked most likely before they die.I also think it takes quite a bit more strategy, and if played right with a good team using VC is easily the most fun i have had in EQ2 to date.</blockquote>I'm a fan of Smugglers too, its easily the most beautiful of the maps, and the gameplay is good with plenty of space for actual strategy to take part.Overall the token change though was likely inevitable though as in future as they add BG's we'd end up with a byzantine system of tokens for gear. At least this way they can reward people for doing different BGs (and incentivise a BG each week perhaps?).Longterm though I'd really like to see a scaling system where people are rewarded for hard won BGs vs Steamrollered ones, so 2 minute Ganak matches do not give a disproportionate reward. The scaling reward system is pretty universal in games that have open/uninstanced group content, like Planetside with base captures where players are rewarded for spending more time/getting more kills. Here in EQ2 I think at least the more time thing would make sense and be simple to implement.It could also add an element of surprise too if players were rewarded with an extra token sometimes for exceptional matches (maybe getting achievements in match?), that would be fun play for the top players to get involved with.

Xiotia

09-03-2010, 10:48 AM

<cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelnok11 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i really really like smugglers den, 8'( Its so much fun to take on groups of people at a time by yourself or in a duo and not have to worry about anyone else in your team coming up and stealing your kills, ganak is too small and if i want to one v one someone they will get attacked most likely before they die.I also think it takes quite a bit more strategy, and if played right with a good team using VC is easily the most fun i have had in EQ2 to date.</blockquote>I'm a fan of Smugglers too, its easily the most beautiful of the maps, and the gameplay is good with plenty of space for actual strategy to take part.Overall the token change though was likely inevitable though as in future as they add BG's we'd end up with a byzantine system of tokens for gear. At least this way they can reward people for doing different BGs (and incentivise a BG each week perhaps?).Longterm though I'd really like to see a scaling system where people are rewarded for hard won BGs vs Steamrollered ones, so 2 minute Ganak matches do not give a disproportionate reward. The scaling reward system is pretty universal in games that have open/uninstanced group content, like Planetside with base captures where players are rewarded for spending more time/getting more kills. Here in EQ2 I think at least the more time thing would make sense and be simple to implement.It could also add an element of surprise too if players were rewarded with an extra token sometimes for exceptional matches (maybe getting achievements in match?), that would be fun play for the top players to get involved with.</blockquote>I'm sure they are going to work this out. The major benefit to making a single token system is the implementation of new maps. One way to fix the problem of people playing the easiest game to get the fastest rewards is to remove the selection process and only allow queue random. That would be the easiest fix. The other options are increasing the rewards for the least desirable maps. However, increasing the amount of rewards has potential to ruin the game too. Honestly I think Olihin will make sure things work out in the end. In the meantime it is useless to be naysayers.Now for the reason I quoted MurFalad: We do get achievements during the match. :p

Eritius

09-03-2010, 01:19 PM

<cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MurFalad wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xelnok11 wrote:</cite><blockquote>i really really like smugglers den, 8'( Its so much fun to take on groups of people at a time by yourself or in a duo and not have to worry about anyone else in your team coming up and stealing your kills, ganak is too small and if i want to one v one someone they will get attacked most likely before they die.I also think it takes quite a bit more strategy, and if played right with a good team using VC is easily the most fun i have had in EQ2 to date.</blockquote>I'm a fan of Smugglers too, its easily the most beautiful of the maps, and the gameplay is good with plenty of space for actual strategy to take part.Overall the token change though was likely inevitable though as in future as they add BG's we'd end up with a byzantine system of tokens for gear. At least this way they can reward people for doing different BGs (and incentivise a BG each week perhaps?).Longterm though I'd really like to see a scaling system where people are rewarded for hard won BGs vs Steamrollered ones, so 2 minute Ganak matches do not give a disproportionate reward. The scaling reward system is pretty universal in games that have open/uninstanced group content, like Planetside with base captures where players are rewarded for spending more time/getting more kills. Here in EQ2 I think at least the more time thing would make sense and be simple to implement.It could also add an element of surprise too if players were rewarded with an extra token sometimes for exceptional matches (maybe getting achievements in match?), that would be fun play for the top players to get involved with.</blockquote>I'm sure they are going to work this out. The major benefit to making a single token system is the implementation of new maps. One way to fix the problem of people playing the easiest game to get the fastest rewards is to remove the selection process and only allow queue random. That would be the easiest fix. The other options are increasing the rewards for the least desirable maps. However, increasing the amount of rewards has potential to ruin the game too. Honestly I think Olihin will make sure things work out in the end. In the meantime it is useless to be naysayers.Now for the reason I quoted MurFalad: We do get achievements during the match. :p</blockquote>They could add in daily doubles to certain BGs each day or week. Could also give bonuses for queuing as random. With incentives like that players will be unlikely to fixiate on a single BG map. WoW was very successful with theirs. They don't use tokens to buy gear anymore, if you get one of each you can turn them in for more 'honor' which is the currency for BG gear.

Uinael_Guk

09-03-2010, 01:25 PM

<cite>ChaserBaine wrote:</cite><blockquote>You dont want to run smugglers because it is boring? Then you must be one of the ones that doesnt stay with their group. Stays at one flag and fights constantly instead of moving to other flags and holding them? omg. Your problem is you dont like "capture the flag" plan and simple. and they gave in to the whiners.OMG dont make me run around and kill that group that is holding that flag ffs. /sarcasm off</blockquote>What does staying with your group have to do with Smugglers being less boring? Does that make the map smaller? Does that make the spawn points change? Also, your statement is confusing. You say Smugglers but then talk about capturing the flag. Are you confused?Anyway, I stay with my group all the time, I try to make an effort to find my healer (if I have one) and hope my tank (if I have one) isn't too much of a noob to do stuff. Last Den I found my healer who was healing my tank at Crescent, and they stayed there regardless of what was happening in the map. Lost skull? No prob. Lost center? Who cares. As long as we fight as Crescent.You can't just throw 24 people together, give them a random raid leader, put random groups together, and expect them to follow the objectives of a map when half the people don't listen even if you tell them exactly what to do.

Yimway

09-03-2010, 01:31 PM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ChaserBaine wrote:</cite><blockquote>You dont want to run smugglers because it is boring? Then you must be one of the ones that doesnt stay with their group. Stays at one flag and fights constantly instead of moving to other flags and holding them? omg. Your problem is you dont like "capture the flag" plan and simple. and they gave in to the whiners.OMG dont make me run around and kill that group that is holding that flag ffs. /sarcasm off</blockquote>What does staying with your group have to do with Smugglers being less boring? Does that make the map smaller? Does that make the spawn points change? Also, your statement is confusing. You say Smugglers but then talk about capturing the flag. Are you confused?Anyway, I stay with my group all the time, I try to make an effort to find my healer (if I have one) and hope my tank (if I have one) isn't too much of a noob to do stuff. Last Den I found my healer who was healing my tank at Crescent, and they stayed there regardless of what was happening in the map. Lost skull? No prob. Lost center? Who cares. As long as we fight as Crescent.You can't just throw 24 people together, give them a random raid leader, put random groups together, and expect them to follow the objectives of a map when half the people don't listen even if you tell them exactly what to do.</blockquote>I really don't get what you folks are talking about with size of map or anything.24 people need to hold 2 flags to win. No further running around is required. In fact, the running around is generally what causes people to lose.

JoarAddam

09-03-2010, 02:58 PM

<cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Beef_Supreme wrote:</cite><blockquote>This fix was necessary back before they made Smuggler's actually spawn..I remember leaving the Queue up for Smuggler's for 5 or 6 hours in Tier 4, and not seeing a single match. BUT.. they fixed that, we now get a pretty good rotation of the different maps.The fix now is needless. Not horrible, not helpful, just needless.And I *still* like Smuggler's the most. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The thing is though, many don't and really shouldn't be forced to run the maps. I said it earlier, but it would be no different than to have specific marks like:Vasty Deep TokensVigilant TokensPalace TokensThe Hole TokensThat would be awful and wouldn't make sense in pve, so why would it work in pvp?</blockquote>I could understand that system, If you want the items from a zone, you run that zone until you get the tokens or have it drop, makes complete sense</blockquote>They had that already. They still do. The zone has a loot table and there is stuff on it you can't get with tokens. The only reason there are tokens at all is because people were tired of Getting shafted on gear... like when we raided in DOF and only warden gear dropped for the first 4 weeks (it was bugged)... so they tried the relic system in KoS, and that didn't work much better, then they tried dropped set gear and some pieces never dropped and weren't tradeable and people complained because the guild's paladin had his hat and they just kept dropping. Then they Did patterns, and now it's patterns and tokens. And if you don't get patterns, you can still use your tokens on lesser stuff.So, really, if you want people to do VD or Vig or Palace or W/E it's already there. you do the zone and get a chance to get some item that only drops there... But there's no loot table in PVP, and while the separate tokens appeared to be a good thing for driving people to zones, all it really did was klokblock 1/2 or more of the equipment slots unless you were in one of two tiers. Otherwise you could queue for den all day long and never ever get in, and never ever get your BP for the tier you were in. Saving up tokens from gears lvl 40-80 and then only queueing den and smugglers so you can finally fill those slots is ridiculous... esp when PVP servers have no such limitation on extremely similar gear that works really well in BG.

Notsovilepriest

09-03-2010, 03:03 PM

<cite>JoarAddam wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Notsovilepriest@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Beef_Supreme wrote:</cite><blockquote>This fix was necessary back before they made Smuggler's actually spawn..I remember leaving the Queue up for Smuggler's for 5 or 6 hours in Tier 4, and not seeing a single match. BUT.. they fixed that, we now get a pretty good rotation of the different maps.The fix now is needless. Not horrible, not helpful, just needless.And I *still* like Smuggler's the most. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" /></blockquote>The thing is though, many don't and really shouldn't be forced to run the maps. I said it earlier, but it would be no different than to have specific marks like:Vasty Deep TokensVigilant TokensPalace TokensThe Hole TokensThat would be awful and wouldn't make sense in pve, so why would it work in pvp?</blockquote>I could understand that system, If you want the items from a zone, you run that zone until you get the tokens or have it drop, makes complete sense</blockquote>They had that already. They still do. The zone has a loot table and there is stuff on it you can't get with tokens. The only reason there are tokens at all is because people were tired of Getting shafted on gear... like when we raided in DOF and only warden gear dropped for the first 4 weeks (it was bugged)... so they tried the relic system in KoS, and that didn't work much better, then they tried dropped set gear and some pieces never dropped and weren't tradeable and people complained because the guild's paladin had his hat and they just kept dropping. Then they Did patterns, and now it's patterns and tokens. And if you don't get patterns, you can still use your tokens on lesser stuff.So, really, if you want people to do VD or Vig or Palace or W/E it's already there. you do the zone and get a chance to get some item that only drops there... But there's no loot table in PVP, and while the separate tokens appeared to be a good thing for driving people to zones, all it really did was klokblock 1/2 or more of the equipment slots unless you were in one of two tiers. Otherwise you could queue for den all day long and never ever get in, and never ever get your BP for the tier you were in. Saving up tokens from gears lvl 40-80 and then only queueing den and smugglers so you can finally fill those slots is ridiculous... esp when PVP servers have no such limitation on extremely similar gear that works really well in BG. </blockquote>* <---- The point0 <---Where you hitYou missed it

Allforgrog

09-04-2010, 02:21 PM

As much as i think this change will ruin my favorite instance, Smugglers, i think it will be fun running Ganak back to back to back as players flood it i search of fast gear. Expect this change to be abused as well and now more successfully.Even if i die quite often doing so, i enjoy playing with/against the "elite" BG players and this will make doing so easier, as they will likely be the only ones left doing the x4.Space, strategy and terrain is fun.

Auxillery

09-04-2010, 07:11 PM

Does this mean my challenger blue adorn gear is obsolete now?..

Culsu

09-04-2010, 08:54 PM

<cite>Auxillery@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Does this mean my challenger blue adorn gear is obsolete now?..</blockquote>Why would your gear be obsolete just because they are making changes to the way people can purchase it?

gmping

09-29-2010, 11:14 PM

I play BGs every night. I like Dens. I just have not seen Dens in almost 2 months.I support the token consolidation. Please bring it live asap!

Forebian

09-30-2010, 09:42 AM

My problem with Smuggler's is that a huge number of people don't understand what it takes to win. I hate spending my time trying while the rest of my team runs in circles, fights to the death for 2 point towers, or fights in open ground no where near an objective.It often times turns into a gigantic waste of my time and I'd rather run other BGs that get over more quickly. If you have a good team in both Klak and Ganak (in the T9 ones anyway) they can end pretty fast. But the good news is if you have a crappy team they end quickly too. Not so in Smuggler's where the points are based on time.Perhaps if they added points for kills to Smuggler's to move it along that would help. I've read that they're going to reduce the points needed to win to 1250 and that will definitely improve things.

Oakum

09-30-2010, 10:51 AM

<cite>Allforgrog wrote:</cite><blockquote>As much as i think this change will ruin my favorite instance, Smugglers, i think it will be fun running Ganak back to back to back as players flood it i search of fast gear. Expect this change to be abused as well and now more successfully.Even if i die quite often doing so, i enjoy playing with/against the "elite" BG players and this will make doing so easier, as they will likely be the only ones left doing the x4.Space, strategy and terrain is fun.</blockquote>Trying to find your group after you die is not. Color coding the group dots on the map would make the x4 a lot more fun and challenging. I tend to get frustrated trying to find my group after dieing and the are all over the map and just run with whoever are close to where I revive.Color/number the groups in the raid and you will get a lot more people who like it and more challenging matches where groups stay together and the buffs actually help each other out.

Davngr1

09-30-2010, 11:29 AM

the people here arguing this change forget that i ALREADY have 5 times more gears tokens then both the others. there aren't as many smug/ganak to begin with. this can be dealt with by equalizing the game ratios internally via qued system. ie. if you qued for "next available game" you will play more and with more variety then someone who is just queing up for gears or ganaks non stop. also anyone who logs in 6 people to lose a match is as dumb as rocks since a 6 man premade can probably rock ganak/gears. running a flag has become harder since being hit will put you in combat and you will loose your 100% run speed. they can also add focus damage to the flag like the relic so the dynamics of the game will be changed and will no longer be won by one 100% runner. since the focus will kill him before he makes it to the other side. in most cases when you factor in enemy attacks and slower run speed.

Avirodar

09-30-2010, 12:39 PM

<cite>Davngr1 wrote:</cite><blockquote>the people here arguing this change forget that i ALREADY have 5 times more gears tokens then both the others. there aren't as many smug/ganak to begin with. this can be dealt with by equalizing the game ratios internally via qued system. ie. if you qued for "next available game" you will play more and with more variety then someone who is just queing up for gears or ganaks non stop. also anyone who logs in 6 people to lose a match is as dumb as rocks since a 6 man premade can probably rock ganak/gears. running a flag has become harder since being hit will put you in combat and you will loose your 100% run speed. they can also add focus damage to the flag like the relic so the dynamics of the game will be changed and will no longer be won by one 100% runner. since the focus will kill him before he makes it to the other side. in most cases when you factor in enemy attacks and slower run speed.</blockquote>Placing the target of attack into combat, will make ganak matches slower, and rangers even more OP than they ALREADY ARE on this map.So it may sound like a nice idea in some part of your mind, until the day you experience the result in actual gameplay.If cures are being nerfed beyond stupidity (as per test), all snares, roots, and taunts need to be nerfed into oblivion. That or the fastest paced BG map will become a grinding slug fest.

Uinael_Guk

11-06-2010, 04:19 PM

S_M_I_T_E

11-07-2010, 01:19 PM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Crismorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, smuggler is 1/3rd of the current content requied for gear, gears is 1/3rd and ganak is 1/3rdAll of them are currently required for the rewards, if you want the gear you have to do all of the maps regardless of time spent.Token consolidation will turn bg's into "where can i haz gear the fastest" Ganak will win that fight and thats how 2/3rds of bg content will become obsolete</blockquote>So how did this prediction work out? </blockquote>Perma gears doesn't seem to be occuring but the greater fraction of Smug and Ganak I see aren't full. That's ok, but they're not brimming which makes me think the que equation got changed.

Uinael_Guk

11-07-2010, 02:12 PM

<cite>S_M_I_T_E wrote:</cite><blockquote>Perma gears doesn't seem to be occuring but the greater fraction of Smug and Ganak I see aren't full. That's ok, but they're not brimming which makes me think the que equation got changed.</blockquote>Well that other guy was so 100% confident that Gears and Den would absolutely never be played after this change. I've had absolutely no trouble getting any type of match, but yea, Den is certainly not packed. That's fine by me though, I hate that map and they needed a lot more changes than just dropping cap to 1,250 to make it interesting.Biggest problem I've seen with Den is just that there is way too much running involved, and with random spawn points based on nearest location to where you die, it makes it extremely hard to coordinate anything if you're not pre-made. That map would be a lot more interesting if raid/group leaders had more of a role. Maybe even something simple like the default respawn is set to the flag closest to group leader for starters. This way groups will all respawn together.Another would be to respawn simply on top of group leaders, like I've seen in some other FPS's.If they don't to do that, then cut the respawn timer down. It's bad enough you have to run for 30-60s to get back to the spot you were once at, but you also have to wait a long time for respawn.

S_M_I_T_E

11-07-2010, 11:27 PM

<cite>Luceus@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Biggest problem I've seen with Den is just that there is way too much running involved, and with random spawn points based on nearest location to where you die, it makes it extremely hard to coordinate anything if you're not pre-made. That map would be a lot more interesting if raid/group leaders had more of a role. Maybe even something simple like the default respawn is set to the flag closest to group leader for starters. This way groups will all respawn together.Another would be to respawn simply on top of group leaders, like I've seen in some other FPS's.If they don't to do that, then cut the respawn timer down. It's bad enough you have to run for 30-60s to get back to the spot you were once at, but you also have to wait a long time for respawn. </blockquote>Good ideas. Although I must admit the reasons I liked Smug Ganak before 58 was that was where there was enough "breathing" room for my Wizzy to own 1v1. I find I like that map less now likely because I'm not playing ranged caster classes in BG anymore (at least this side of the 1400 token nerf on Mastercrafted peeps). And as a melee class it is hard to get to my groupmates on death in a PUG.Post 58 I agree that there's too much running around in Smug and since I'm playing my melees I find Gank to be the most fun with gears a close 2nd. Then again with the exception of the odd fabled clothie I certainly DON'T see mastercrafted casters running around in many teirs anymore.