Wizzies and warlocks need mitigation????? [Archive]

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PeteyWheatstraw

09-01-2010, 03:25 PM

So just wondering why it is that a wizard or warlock is supposed to beable to outright mitigate the dps from t9 fully raid geared brigand swashbuckler assassin and shadowknight at the same time trying to burn and not ever really drop below yellow.....even after 6 minutes?????and dont say working as intended......It is absoulutely impossible and the current developer is taking this game in a very very bummer dirction. one where tanks fold under pressure faster than a wizard or warlock.no other cloth armor wearing class gets to outright mitigate dmg like these two classes.no other class in game period does. hence the dramatic influx in numbers of these classes being in played. also leaving the battlegrounds significantly difficiant of healers and tanks, really anyt class that brings some sort of utility to the rest of us that try to enjoy different classes.This is in need of a rapid fix. Wizard and Warlock mitigation is severly broken. not working as intended!!!!

Forebian

09-01-2010, 05:18 PM

This strikes me as funny because in order to get to that level of uberness that wizzy had to spend countless hours equipping himself. And along the way he died over-and-over-and-over-and-over to green con anythings, let alone yellows or reds.I've only played a wizard on this server and I consistently get my @55 handed to me, sometimes in seconds. And when I cast a spell it often times barely dents the tanks I'm casting on...mostly because their wards, resistences, etc absorb virtually everything...that is if they don't resist it outright.One time I was in a full group that hung around after a WF and a level 90 warden had hung around. The six of us attacked him and after 10 minutes not only was he still alive but his power had gone back up to 75 percent. He was completely un-killable. He was tougher than any raid MOB I've ever seen. Did we cry? Nope. We just moved on.I need gear and I need AAs to compete. Obviously that wizard you ran into had both. And I can tell you he's a rare bird. There are some people who have it all and know how to play, and you will likely not defeat them easily (or at all.)So I would suggest you pick another target as most of the wizzy's you run into will go down pretty easily.

Aleste

09-01-2010, 05:49 PM

Few peices of ward proc gear and the right aa setup and Sorcs are very tough to kill and they can nuke very well. Personaly i think all mages should be glass cannons I understand why the AA was setup the way it was in the past when a sorc could pull aggro from a tank easy and needed it, but now with tanks holding aggro well i dont see much of a point to it and in pvp its just op. As for wardens, they also have to work for gear and aa to become "unkillable" and they need their myth buff. Even tho they have "unlimited power" a scout with a few power steal pieces and mental breech can kite kill them with bow procs easy. A poor played Sorc or Warden will die quite easy tho.Dispel is underrated imo

Jab

09-01-2010, 06:45 PM

I too think they need more mitt/wards.They are very UP "underpowered" atm,i mean a mage sorc in cloth that can stand against 2-3-4 players without dropping noticeable in health is a clear sign that the class is in dire straits and in desperate need of some dev lovin..Irony may or may not have been used in the above statement. u figure it out

Thinwizzy

09-01-2010, 06:45 PM

Ilovecows

09-01-2010, 08:59 PM

<cite>Forebian wrote:</cite><blockquote>This strikes me as funny because in order to get to that level of uberness that wizzy had to spend countless hours equipping himself. And along the way he died over-and-over-and-over-and-over to green con anythings, let alone yellows or reds.So I would suggest you pick another target as most of the wizzy's you run into will go down pretty easily.</blockquote>All classes are like this if they aren't twinked then they can't take a lot of damage and die easily. What you say is completely untrue. you just haven't spent much time trying to twink. Almost every wizard or warlock i see that is pvping is pretty close to unkillable unless you way out con them and are specced to do a lot of dps then you can't really have a chance of killing them. The notion that almost every wizard or warlock except a couple are very easy to kill, is completely wrong. the only reason one would be very easy to kill is if they are a lot less twinked than the person they are fighting. i suggest getting some nice gear and aa before you talk about whether or not a sorcerer can take too much damage.

Legion2024

09-01-2010, 09:29 PM

all classes are out of line all of them from tanking to buffing to the dps classes, and what they bring to the groups

Azol

09-02-2010, 04:35 AM

<cite>PeteyWheatstraw wrote:</cite><blockquote>So just wondering why it is that a wizard or warlock is supposed to beable to outright mitigate the dps from t9 fully raid geared brigand swashbuckler assassin and shadowknight at the same time trying to burn and not ever really drop below yellow.....even after 6 minutes?????</blockquote>Sorry to say it, but Parse or it didn't happen!Do not forget to include the Incoming Healing of that mage as well.Until then, I call it total BS. Maybe you just "forgot" to tell us he was healed by a Mystic and a Templar? In that case 3 vs 4 is a very probable scenario. You was "raid geared" and they were "PVP geared" - do you see the difference?

Jab

09-02-2010, 08:18 AM

<cite>Azol@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PeteyWheatstraw wrote:</cite><blockquote>So just wondering why it is that a wizard or warlock is supposed to beable to outright mitigate the dps from t9 fully raid geared brigand swashbuckler assassin and shadowknight at the same time trying to burn and not ever really drop below yellow.....even after 6 minutes?????</blockquote>Sorry to say it, but Parse or it didn't happen!Do not forget to include the Incoming Healing of that mage as well.Until then, I call it total BS. Maybe you just "forgot" to tell us he was healed by a Mystic and a Templar? In that case 3 vs 4 is a very probable scenario. You was "raid geared" and they were "PVP geared" - do you see the difference?</blockquote>There is no doubt that mages and sorcs in particular have recieved some nifty increase in survivability.But 6min against "raid geared" dps classes is over the top.It would help the situation if u came up with some believeable numbers m8.Just saying.

Felleyes

09-02-2010, 03:40 PM

As someone who rolled a lock less than 15 mins after the PvP servers launched, and who still plays a lock, I can tell you with all honesty that PvPing on a sorcerer was next to impossible on Naggy for about 95 percent of its existence.There were years, yes years, when the only reason a lock would cast a 4-second M2 encounter nuke was to see a colorful circle of “resisted” bloom on the screen.That’s not an exaggeration. Spell damage was so effed up in this game for so long that .5 sec combat arts have pretty much always hit harder than spells with 2, 3 and 4 second casting times.Think about it, would you want to roll a cloth-wearing, damage-over-time-dependant class with the longest casting times in the game if they instantly dropped like a sack of potatoes to chain-wearing .5 CA-having scout classes? Why not play a ranger who can do wizard-like damage, only much more quickly, while running, who also gets crazy mit and high avoidance? The answer to that is what created EverScout. You think it’s a bad thing that, now, several other classes are viable in PvP and that people can play something other than low-lev twinked-out scouts without getting [Removed for Content] owned by a 1000 low-lev twinked-out scouts? Especially since there’s nothing wrong with scouts at the present, they’re still beastly in PvP. The difference is that, now, you don’t have to play EverScout. You can play almost any class in the game (except maybe a Necro) and with time and effort, you can make yourself pretty tough.All the years I !@#%ed about how stupidly OP brigs, [Removed for Content], swashies, rangers and healers were against sorcerers, all I ever hear in response on these boards was either, buy see stealth totems, LTP, reroll, or “group with a scout and you won’t have that problem.”So, to you my friend, I say, if you don’t like the fact that sorcerers no longer die before they can get a single spell off, here’s some advice for you: buy some see invis totems, LTP, reroll or group with a mage and you won’t have that problem.It would be different if I didn't group with and fight agaist highly competent players of all different classes all the time who are very, very hard to kill. So why should casters be any different? This game has been crazy unfair against casting classes for so many years that it’s still hard for me to believe when I log on that I actually have a fighting chance against anyone. But it’s true, casters can put up a fight now. However, what the OP says about one taking 6 mins of pounding from a brig, swash, assy and an SK, without a healer, is just BS.

Forebian

09-02-2010, 04:44 PM

<cite>Steppen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Forebian wrote:</cite><blockquote>This strikes me as funny because in order to get to that level of uberness that wizzy had to spend countless hours equipping himself. And along the way he died over-and-over-and-over-and-over to green con anythings, let alone yellows or reds.So I would suggest you pick another target as most of the wizzy's you run into will go down pretty easily.</blockquote>All classes are like this if they aren't twinked then they can't take a lot of damage and die easily. What you say is completely untrue. you just haven't spent much time trying to twink. Almost every wizard or warlock i see that is pvping is pretty close to unkillable unless you way out con them and are specced to do a lot of dps then you can't really have a chance of killing them. The notion that almost every wizard or warlock except a couple are very easy to kill, is completely wrong. the only reason one would be very easy to kill is if they are a lot less twinked than the person they are fighting. i suggest getting some nice gear and aa before you talk about whether or not a sorcerer can take too much damage.</blockquote>Awesome! I can't wait to be invulnerable and have people whine about me.All I know is most wizzies I run into fold like a house of cards and only very, very, very rarely does anyone mention an uber caster who can't be killed by a group of people. In fact this is only the second time I've heard it mentioned.But if you say so...

Jab

09-02-2010, 04:57 PM

<cite>Forebian wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Steppen@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Forebian wrote:</cite><blockquote>This strikes me as funny because in order to get to that level of uberness that wizzy had to spend countless hours equipping himself. And along the way he died over-and-over-and-over-and-over to green con anythings, let alone yellows or reds.So I would suggest you pick another target as most of the wizzy's you run into will go down pretty easily.</blockquote>All classes are like this if they aren't twinked then they can't take a lot of damage and die easily. What you say is completely untrue. you just haven't spent much time trying to twink. Almost every wizard or warlock i see that is pvping is pretty close to unkillable unless you way out con them and are specced to do a lot of dps then you can't really have a chance of killing them. The notion that almost every wizard or warlock except a couple are very easy to kill, is completely wrong. the only reason one would be very easy to kill is if they are a lot less twinked than the person they are fighting. i suggest getting some nice gear and aa before you talk about whether or not a sorcerer can take too much damage.</blockquote>Awesome! I can't wait to be invulnerable and have people whine about me.All I know is most wizzies I run into fold like a house of cards and only very, very, very rarely does anyone mention an uber caster who can't be killed by a group of people. In fact this is only the second time I've heard it mentioned.But if you say so...</blockquote>Stop pvping in Oakmyst forrest maybe ?Granted some of the stories about sorc survivability is exaggerated but that dosent mean that there isen´t players out there that can take a hella beating.It´s all about AA spec and gear.If u fail in one of those departments then chances are u wont be one of the impressive players ppl are talking about =)

Aleste

09-03-2010, 09:40 AM

<cite>Felleyes wrote:</cite><blockquote>As someone who rolled a lock less than 15 mins after the PvP servers launched, and who still plays a lock, I can tell you with all honesty that PvPing on a sorcerer was next to impossible on Naggy for about 95 percent of its existence.There were years, yes years, when the only reason a lock would cast a 4-second M2 encounter nuke was to see a colorful circle of “resisted” bloom on the screen.That’s not an exaggeration. Spell damage was so effed up in this game for so long that .5 sec combat arts have pretty much always hit harder than spells with 2, 3 and 4 second casting times.Think about it, would you want to roll a cloth-wearing, damage-over-time-dependant class with the longest casting times in the game if they instantly dropped like a sack of potatoes to chain-wearing .5 CA-having scout classes? Why not play a ranger who can do wizard-like damage, only much more quickly, while running, who also gets crazy mit and high avoidance? The answer to that is what created EverScout. You think it’s a bad thing that, now, several other classes are viable in PvP and that people can play something other than low-lev twinked-out scouts without getting [Removed for Content] owned by a 1000 low-lev twinked-out scouts? Especially since there’s nothing wrong with scouts at the present, they’re still beastly in PvP. The difference is that, now, you don’t have to play EverScout. You can play almost any class in the game (except maybe a Necro) and with time and effort, you can make yourself pretty tough.All the years I !@#%ed about how stupidly OP brigs, [Removed for Content], swashies, rangers and healers were against sorcerers, all I ever hear in response on these boards was either, buy see stealth totems, LTP, reroll, or “group with a scout and you won’t have that problem.”So, to you my friend, I say, if you don’t like the fact that sorcerers no longer die before they can get a single spell off, here’s some advice for you: buy some see invis totems, LTP, reroll or group with a mage and you won’t have that problem.It would be different if I didn't group with and fight agaist highly competent players of all different classes all the time who are very, very hard to kill. So why should casters be any different? This game has been crazy unfair against casting classes for so many years that it’s still hard for me to believe when I log on that I actually have a fighting chance against anyone. But it’s true, casters can put up a fight now. However, what the OP says about one taking 6 mins of pounding from a brig, swash, assy and an SK, without a healer, is just BS.</blockquote>Before all the CC nerfs scors could still tear people apart and some good ones did it even after. Resists were botched for quite some time I agree, but in no way is it remotley logical a sorc (cause they are the only mages who can do it.) Should stand face to face with any class even a guard and live to talk about it. let alone mitigate some very hard hits down to nothingness. I agree all mages needed some kind of balance so they can take a hit or two in pvp but what scorcs have now is over the top. And its made alot of scors lazy they just sit there and take the hits then blast away. Mages are a ranged class which should mean kiting in pvp to some extent. PvP is in rough shape atm tho almost every class can be called op in some way or another beside maybe summoners and guards.If i could sum pvp up right now it would be stand toe to toe and blast untill someone dies.. unless your a scout then you run in mindless circles trying to get back attacks in while standing tow to toe.next nerf remove running in circles from pvp because it makes people dizzy.

Pavahac

09-03-2010, 11:29 AM

I find it amusing when people come here because a class beat them or stood toe to toe. They scream for a nerf. I also find it amusing that people actually believe one class should never win, if that was the case then that class would never be played. I think conj comes to mind.

Xiotia

09-03-2010, 11:41 AM

<cite>Aleste wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felleyes wrote:</cite><blockquote>As someone who rolled a lock less than 15 mins after the PvP servers launched, and who still plays a lock, I can tell you with all honesty that PvPing on a sorcerer was next to impossible on Naggy for about 95 percent of its existence.There were years, yes years, when the only reason a lock would cast a 4-second M2 encounter nuke was to see a colorful circle of “resisted” bloom on the screen.That’s not an exaggeration. Spell damage was so effed up in this game for so long that .5 sec combat arts have pretty much always hit harder than spells with 2, 3 and 4 second casting times.Think about it, would you want to roll a cloth-wearing, damage-over-time-dependant class with the longest casting times in the game if they instantly dropped like a sack of potatoes to chain-wearing .5 CA-having scout classes? Why not play a ranger who can do wizard-like damage, only much more quickly, while running, who also gets crazy mit and high avoidance? The answer to that is what created EverScout. You think it’s a bad thing that, now, several other classes are viable in PvP and that people can play something other than low-lev twinked-out scouts without getting [Removed for Content] owned by a 1000 low-lev twinked-out scouts? Especially since there’s nothing wrong with scouts at the present, they’re still beastly in PvP. The difference is that, now, you don’t have to play EverScout. You can play almost any class in the game (except maybe a Necro) and with time and effort, you can make yourself pretty tough.All the years I !@#%ed about how stupidly OP brigs, [Removed for Content], swashies, rangers and healers were against sorcerers, all I ever hear in response on these boards was either, buy see stealth totems, LTP, reroll, or “group with a scout and you won’t have that problem.”So, to you my friend, I say, if you don’t like the fact that sorcerers no longer die before they can get a single spell off, here’s some advice for you: buy some see invis totems, LTP, reroll or group with a mage and you won’t have that problem.It would be different if I didn't group with and fight agaist highly competent players of all different classes all the time who are very, very hard to kill. So why should casters be any different? This game has been crazy unfair against casting classes for so many years that it’s still hard for me to believe when I log on that I actually have a fighting chance against anyone. But it’s true, casters can put up a fight now. However, what the OP says about one taking 6 mins of pounding from a brig, swash, assy and an SK, without a healer, is just BS.</blockquote>Before all the CC nerfs scors could still tear people apart and some good ones did it even after. Resists were botched for quite some time I agree, but in no way is it remotley logical a sorc (cause they are the only mages who can do it.) Should stand face to face with any class even a guard and live to talk about it. let alone mitigate some very hard hits down to nothingness. I agree all mages needed some kind of balance so they can take a hit or two in pvp but what scorcs have now is over the top. And its made alot of scors lazy they just sit there and take the hits then blast away. Mages are a ranged class which should mean kiting in pvp to some extent. PvP is in rough shape atm tho almost every class can be called op in some way or another beside maybe summoners and guards.If i could sum pvp up right now it would be stand toe to toe and blast untill someone dies.. unless your a scout then you run in mindless circles trying to get back attacks in while standing tow to toe.next nerf remove running in circles from pvp because it makes people dizzy.</blockquote>I'm missing two pieces of BG gear on my 90 wizzy. I have to kite in order to survive in BG, even with the toughness and mitigation. Because if I run in, I die within maybe four or five hits. If a ranger gets on me, I'm dead with the same number of hits from a distance. I agree with Fell on this.In T4 Fell was almost impossible to kill, but not anymore since We've improved in pvp.

Aleste

09-03-2010, 11:38 PM

Aleste

09-03-2010, 11:42 PM

<cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felleyes wrote:</cite><blockquote>As someone who rolled a lock less than 15 mins after the PvP servers launched, and who still plays a lock, I can tell you with all honesty that PvPing on a sorcerer was next to impossible on Naggy for about 95 percent of its existence.There were years, yes years, when the only reason a lock would cast a 4-second M2 encounter nuke was to see a colorful circle of “resisted” bloom on the screen.That’s not an exaggeration. Spell damage was so effed up in this game for so long that .5 sec combat arts have pretty much always hit harder than spells with 2, 3 and 4 second casting times.Think about it, would you want to roll a cloth-wearing, damage-over-time-dependant class with the longest casting times in the game if they instantly dropped like a sack of potatoes to chain-wearing .5 CA-having scout classes? Why not play a ranger who can do wizard-like damage, only much more quickly, while running, who also gets crazy mit and high avoidance? The answer to that is what created EverScout. You think it’s a bad thing that, now, several other classes are viable in PvP and that people can play something other than low-lev twinked-out scouts without getting [Removed for Content] owned by a 1000 low-lev twinked-out scouts? Especially since there’s nothing wrong with scouts at the present, they’re still beastly in PvP. The difference is that, now, you don’t have to play EverScout. You can play almost any class in the game (except maybe a Necro) and with time and effort, you can make yourself pretty tough.All the years I !@#%ed about how stupidly OP brigs, [Removed for Content], swashies, rangers and healers were against sorcerers, all I ever hear in response on these boards was either, buy see stealth totems, LTP, reroll, or “group with a scout and you won’t have that problem.”So, to you my friend, I say, if you don’t like the fact that sorcerers no longer die before they can get a single spell off, here’s some advice for you: buy some see invis totems, LTP, reroll or group with a mage and you won’t have that problem.It would be different if I didn't group with and fight agaist highly competent players of all different classes all the time who are very, very hard to kill. So why should casters be any different? This game has been crazy unfair against casting classes for so many years that it’s still hard for me to believe when I log on that I actually have a fighting chance against anyone. But it’s true, casters can put up a fight now. However, what the OP says about one taking 6 mins of pounding from a brig, swash, assy and an SK, without a healer, is just BS.</blockquote>Before all the CC nerfs scors could still tear people apart and some good ones did it even after. Resists were botched for quite some time I agree, but in no way is it remotley logical a sorc (cause they are the only mages who can do it.) Should stand face to face with any class even a guard and live to talk about it. let alone mitigate some very hard hits down to nothingness. I agree all mages needed some kind of balance so they can take a hit or two in pvp but what scorcs have now is over the top. And its made alot of scors lazy they just sit there and take the hits then blast away. Mages are a ranged class which should mean kiting in pvp to some extent. PvP is in rough shape atm tho almost every class can be called op in some way or another beside maybe summoners and guards.If i could sum pvp up right now it would be stand toe to toe and blast untill someone dies.. unless your a scout then you run in mindless circles trying to get back attacks in while standing tow to toe.next nerf remove running in circles from pvp because it makes people dizzy.</blockquote>I'm missing two pieces of BG gear on my 90 wizzy. I have to kite in order to survive in BG, even with the toughness and mitigation. Because if I run in, I die within maybe four or five hits. If a ranger gets on me, I'm dead with the same number of hits from a distance. I agree with Fell on this.In T4 Fell was almost impossible to kill, but not anymore since We've improved in pvp.</blockquote>Two questions.. whats your spec? and how many ward procs are you stacking? Because with high aa a good spec and ward proc gear diying is the least of your worries. People will hit you a few times and if you dont blow them up they will give up and walk away to go kill a conjy or necro. Four to Five hits from a ranger? point proven you live longer than most classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />. It's cloth armor! the drawback of having such powerfull spells. nowhere in the fine print did it say you can put a plate armor set on under your cloth. But since Rangers are getting gatling guns i guess all is well.

Xiotia

09-04-2010, 01:01 AM

<cite>Aleste wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Xiotia@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aleste wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Felleyes wrote:</cite><blockquote>As someone who rolled a lock less than 15 mins after the PvP servers launched, and who still plays a lock, I can tell you with all honesty that PvPing on a sorcerer was next to impossible on Naggy for about 95 percent of its existence.There were years, yes years, when the only reason a lock would cast a 4-second M2 encounter nuke was to see a colorful circle of “resisted” bloom on the screen.That’s not an exaggeration. Spell damage was so effed up in this game for so long that .5 sec combat arts have pretty much always hit harder than spells with 2, 3 and 4 second casting times.Think about it, would you want to roll a cloth-wearing, damage-over-time-dependant class with the longest casting times in the game if they instantly dropped like a sack of potatoes to chain-wearing .5 CA-having scout classes? Why not play a ranger who can do wizard-like damage, only much more quickly, while running, who also gets crazy mit and high avoidance? The answer to that is what created EverScout. You think it’s a bad thing that, now, several other classes are viable in PvP and that people can play something other than low-lev twinked-out scouts without getting [Removed for Content] owned by a 1000 low-lev twinked-out scouts? Especially since there’s nothing wrong with scouts at the present, they’re still beastly in PvP. The difference is that, now, you don’t have to play EverScout. You can play almost any class in the game (except maybe a Necro) and with time and effort, you can make yourself pretty tough.All the years I !@#%ed about how stupidly OP brigs, [Removed for Content], swashies, rangers and healers were against sorcerers, all I ever hear in response on these boards was either, buy see stealth totems, LTP, reroll, or “group with a scout and you won’t have that problem.”So, to you my friend, I say, if you don’t like the fact that sorcerers no longer die before they can get a single spell off, here’s some advice for you: buy some see invis totems, LTP, reroll or group with a mage and you won’t have that problem.It would be different if I didn't group with and fight agaist highly competent players of all different classes all the time who are very, very hard to kill. So why should casters be any different? This game has been crazy unfair against casting classes for so many years that it’s still hard for me to believe when I log on that I actually have a fighting chance against anyone. But it’s true, casters can put up a fight now. However, what the OP says about one taking 6 mins of pounding from a brig, swash, assy and an SK, without a healer, is just BS.</blockquote>Before all the CC nerfs scors could still tear people apart and some good ones did it even after. Resists were botched for quite some time I agree, but in no way is it remotley logical a sorc (cause they are the only mages who can do it.) Should stand face to face with any class even a guard and live to talk about it. let alone mitigate some very hard hits down to nothingness. I agree all mages needed some kind of balance so they can take a hit or two in pvp but what scorcs have now is over the top. And its made alot of scors lazy they just sit there and take the hits then blast away. Mages are a ranged class which should mean kiting in pvp to some extent. PvP is in rough shape atm tho almost every class can be called op in some way or another beside maybe summoners and guards.If i could sum pvp up right now it would be stand toe to toe and blast untill someone dies.. unless your a scout then you run in mindless circles trying to get back attacks in while standing tow to toe.next nerf remove running in circles from pvp because it makes people dizzy.</blockquote>I'm missing two pieces of BG gear on my 90 wizzy. I have to kite in order to survive in BG, even with the toughness and mitigation. Because if I run in, I die within maybe four or five hits. If a ranger gets on me, I'm dead with the same number of hits from a distance. I agree with Fell on this.In T4 Fell was almost impossible to kill, but not anymore since We've improved in pvp.</blockquote>Two questions.. whats your spec? and how many ward procs are you stacking? Because with high aa a good spec and ward proc gear diying is the least of your worries. People will hit you a few times and if you dont blow them up they will give up and walk away to go kill a conjy or necro. Four to Five hits from a ranger? point proven you live longer than most classes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" />. It's cloth armor! the drawback of having such powerfull spells. nowhere in the fine print did it say you can put a plate armor set on under your cloth. But since Rangers are getting gatling guns i guess all is well.</blockquote>I'll look those up for you sometime. I don't know off hand, however I'm sure it isn't perfect. :p I think I am in str, wis, and dex. Do

Taldier

09-04-2010, 01:11 AM

<cite>Pavahac@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote> I find it amusing when people come here because a class beat them or stood toe to toe. They scream for a nerf. I also find it amusing that people actually believe one class should never win, if that was the case then that class would never be played. I think conj comes to mind.</blockquote>hint: conjys will never be "balanced" as long as sorcs can both out dps them and simultaneously have greater pvp survivability than almost every class (except wardens I suppose, but then again I've yet to see a warden icecomet or rift anyone) without even actively doing anything (except recasting passive buffs when they get dispelled, ooo hard)Of course it doesnt really matter right now since almost every class is near invincible if geared and played correctly. Whats the point of even logging in when every fight with a remotely decent player is just a 30+ minute draw that ends when the q's 30+ buddies show up?

Aleste

09-04-2010, 06:10 AM

<cite>Taldier@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pavahac@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote> I find it amusing when people come here because a class beat them or stood toe to toe. They scream for a nerf. I also find it amusing that people actually believe one class should never win, if that was the case then that class would never be played. I think conj comes to mind.</blockquote>hint: conjys will never be "balanced" as long as sorcs can both out dps them and simultaneously have greater pvp survivability than almost every class (except wardens I suppose, but then again I've yet to see a warden icecomet or rift anyone) without even actively doing anything (except recasting passive buffs when they get dispelled, ooo hard)Of course it doesnt really matter right now since almost every class is near invincible if geared and played correctly. Whats the point of even logging in when every fight with a remotely decent player is just a 30+ minute draw that ends when the q's 30+ buddies show up?</blockquote>You sir are pure win. I completely agree pvp fights are lasting to long nowadays. Guess thats why its so easy to break pvp combat now. Shoot em up style pvp is lame too dont get me wrong but fights where someone dies (not from old age or just plain giving up) would be ideal. I dont get pvp right now, some classes are so strong they make you want to reroll and some are so weak it makes you have to ask if the Devs did any kind of planning.FORESIGHT should be a word game Devs memorize and think of before they impliment changes just to undo them at a latter time. All the class changes this game has underwent and It still feels like im playing a beta waiting for things to get fixed. And I mean this for Pvp and Pve.

Phineus

09-04-2010, 04:52 PM

My t4 lock has 6 wards. Magis shield 10 pts, ward of sages 10 pts, pvp jewelry and two feysteel tablets and of course manashield(limited usefullness). Add to that I have a clicky heal on my robe with heal proc adorns in three slots and every piece of toughness including the pvp mount and he is one tough monkey to kill.

Ekelefer

09-05-2010, 12:42 PM

I ran up against Felleyes a bunch of times on my assassin when she was t4 (Rynrin). Alone there wasn't much I could do against him before I had to flee, but if I fled there wasn't anything he alone could do to stop me. It was a stalemate.When I partnered with my good friend Mezumiiru(brigand), the two of us were able to force him to use Manashield early on and if he weren't assisted he was going to die.Personally I like having a challenge. Running Ganak or Smuggler's where there is a crowd of 6-7 roleplayers with a few Heroes, so to speak, makes for an interesting encounter and calls for strategy. Which soldier goes down first? Can we lure a couple DPSers away playing possom and then burn them down? Is that healer soft enough that we can run in, kill him and flee before Klap can lock us down?It's all about spec, time and strategy. Once you've achieved a certain amount of experience (AAs and knowledge) you'll earn officer status on the battlefield and the strategy will revolve around how best to isolate you from your resources (other players who offer more utility than supremacy). For me it turns mindless, faceless BGs into pseudo-pvp in a can. Given the current state of Nagafen imo its the best thing right now.In the worst possible scenario the best you can do is to leave an infamous combatant to his own devices and try to destroy all his resources before he destroys yours. In the best possible scenario the possibilities and situations are plenty.

Duotang

09-05-2010, 02:59 PM

<cite>PeteyWheatstraw wrote:</cite><blockquote>So just wondering why it is that a wizard or warlock is supposed to beable to outright mitigate the dps from t9 fully raid geared brigand swashbuckler assassin and shadowknight at the same time trying to burn and not ever really drop below yellow.....even after 6 minutes?????and dont say working as intended......It is absoulutely impossible and the current developer is taking this game in a very very bummer dirction. one where tanks fold under pressure faster than a wizard or warlock.no other cloth armor wearing class gets to outright mitigate dmg like these two classes.no other class in game period does. hence the dramatic influx in numbers of these classes being in played. also leaving the battlegrounds significantly difficiant of healers and tanks, really anyt class that brings some sort of utility to the rest of us that try to enjoy different classes.This is in need of a rapid fix. Wizard and Warlock mitigation is severly broken. not working as intended!!!!</blockquote>I suppose one of (or several) developers have decided to roll sorcerers. We've seen SK's be OP since GU50, and Brigands were ridiculously OP from GU46 without any nerfs along the way, to either class.It makes perfect sense that a cloth wearing toon should be able to stand up to a full group. Whats the problem here? SK's take on x4's. Brigands run faster than the speed of light when they realize they are going to die. So......really, what's the problem?

Aleste

09-07-2010, 03:02 PM

<cite>Ekeleferal wrote:</cite><blockquote>I ran up against Felleyes a bunch of times on my assassin when she was t4 (Rynrin). Alone there wasn't much I could do against him before I had to flee, but if I fled there wasn't anything he alone could do to stop me. It was a stalemate.When I partnered with my good friend Mezumiiru(brigand), the two of us were able to force him to use Manashield early on and if he weren't assisted he was going to die.Personally I like having a challenge. Running Ganak or Smuggler's where there is a crowd of 6-7 roleplayers with a few Heroes, so to speak, makes for an interesting encounter and calls for strategy. Which soldier goes down first? Can we lure a couple DPSers away playing possom and then burn them down? Is that healer soft enough that we can run in, kill him and flee before Klap can lock us down?It's all about spec, time and strategy. Once you've achieved a certain amount of experience (AAs and knowledge) you'll earn officer status on the battlefield and the strategy will revolve around how best to isolate you from your resources (other players who offer more utility than supremacy). For me it turns mindless, faceless BGs into pseudo-pvp in a can. Given the current state of Nagafen imo its the best thing right now.In the worst possible scenario the best you can do is to leave an infamous combatant to his own devices and try to destroy all his resources before he destroys yours. In the best possible scenario the possibilities and situations are plenty.</blockquote>Dude when did pvpers give up?.. not talking about bgs here talking about pure 1v1 pvp you know you meet someone out in the wild and try to destroy them (this still does happen I hope). I was never for the whole group gank thing I think every class should have a shot against another 1v1. How should an assassin have to run from a Sorc 1v1? That fight should go down like this1. Assassin sees Sorc first stealth ganks them unless sorc is good and gets out of range before death. In which case Assassin should be in trouble.2. Sorc sees Assassin from range boom dead assassin.this is how it works currently1. Assassin sees Sorc first stealth attacks sorc.... sorc somehow lives through full concealment chain assassinate and a bazooka to the back. Sorc laughs and melts assassins face.2. Sorc sees Assassin from range boom dead assassin.(Sub assassin for most other classes sk excluded) <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" />I jest a bit... but only about the bazooka ( those come in next patch!)

sveppir

09-16-2010, 04:39 AM

Mages get a magical force field, think starship enterprise. No reason to think it is like plate armor. To get decent shielding we have to drop maybe 30 or so AA points into it. Not a small price to pay, but worth it for some survivability.

Wolfsight

09-16-2010, 06:56 AM

I posted this in the BG forums but the thread seems to have fallen down the page some.As to give an insight to sorc survivability will explain it a bit least from what I can see comes down to broken toughness.Using rough numbers (magi at 1k) to make things simples take Player A as a sorc and player B as the opponent;Player B hits Player A for 200 a hit breaking magi shielding in 5 hits, each of these hits has a chance of procing multiple pieces of ward gear. Player B then has to chew through whatever wards have proc'd and any new/regened wards before hitting health of player A.Throw in toughness and things gets messed upPlayer B hits player A for 120 damage (reduction of 40% due to toughness) breaking magi shielding in 9 hits, again each of these hits has a chance of procing multiple pieces of ward gear. Player B has to chew through whatever wards are currently up having to hit more to break the ward than without toughness. This ends in a cycle where damage is to low compared to the procing / regening of wards meaning Player B never starts hitting the health of Player A.Damage would be scaled up but the idea behind it remains the same. In the nature of this hard hitting / low frequency attack classes will have a much easier time dealing with a sorc than a lower hitting / higher frequency class. Damage over the same timeframe may be equal between both however chances of wards popping additional wards greatly differs.I have never liked toughness from the start flat out damage reduction without changing it on a class per class basis is bound to cause issues like this. Imo remove toughness as it was during TSO, back then I could spec/gear for wards and it gave a good boost to survivability however right now using roughly the same ward gear and the difference from then is pritty much brokenly OP.To the OP, I would say post the parse of the fight or it never happened 3 classes that can dispell + an assassin beating on a sorc for 6 min is very hard to believe. Parse of damage and heal breakdowns would give a lot more creditability to the post.